Baroness Sayeed Warsi – File photo by AFP
Baroness Sayeeda Warsi – File photo by AFP

KARACHI: British minister and co-chairman of the Conservatives Party Baroness Sayeeda Warsi has said that a small minority of Pakistani men believe that white women “are a fair game.”

Warsi’s comments follow the sentencing of nine men (eight of Pakistani origin) for plying white girls, as young as 13, with alcohol and drugs so they could be used for sex.

“There is a small minority of Pakistani men who believe that white girls are fair game. And we have to be prepared to say that. You can only start solving a problem if you acknowledge it first,” the Baroness was quoted as saying by reports in British media.

UK’s first female Muslim minister said religious leaders must isolate such men who treat white women as “third-rate citizens.”

“In mosque after mosque, this should be raised as an issue so that anybody remotely involved should start to feel that the community is turning on them,” she said.

Following the case, the Greater Manchester police did not highlight race as one of the major factors in the crime but Warsi insisted that “cultural sensitivity should never be a bar to applying the law.”


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Comments (146) (Closed)


Amigo
May 19, 2012 12:13am
Three reasons, uncivilized, uncivilized and uncivilized
Captain Kaka
May 19, 2012 12:14am
Mr Manish and JD Sharma, india has the highest rate of female baby abortions......several men from India here in Toronto treat their women like dirt.
syed rahman
May 18, 2012 11:52pm
Ms. Warsi: Please read this line again:"Following the case, the Greater Manchester police did not highlight race as one of the major factors in the crime."
usama
May 18, 2012 10:31pm
@jd shami...oh come on man...do all other men have total respect for their women..?? Indian, British....! there are bugs in every community! .....dont generalize Pakistani Nationals....!Do Saudi's treat their women fairly...!
Bilal
May 19, 2012 09:37am
please Miss or Mrs warsi Don't say Pakistani say British people. And Rochdale incident you cant this much..
Captain Kaka
May 18, 2012 11:21pm
Mr Manish and JD Sharma, india has the highest rate of female baby abortions......Indian men, especially Sikhs here in Toronto treat their women like dirt. Indian men in general especially Gujratis have no respect for women. Boys in an Indian family are always given more priority than Girls.
Hamza Irfan
May 18, 2012 10:39pm
Pakistani community is of a very small size but according to British police 30 to 40 percent of these type of crimes are committed by Pakistani men.......Imagine 30 percent of sex crimes in Britain committed by Pakistani men represented by Pakistani community which makes up 0.5 % of the population...... so Pakistani men are GENERALLY behind sex crimes .....There is no British propaganda against Pakistanis. The facts say everything. AND this has a lot to do with Islam as well. Muslim guys treat non Muslim girls as objects to pleasure themselves because Imams of most of the mosques in Canada and UK are ignorant men who don't understand Islam at all and are misguiding everyone who comes to them with questions about whats right and wrong. I am pretty sure these 9 guys convicted here were using some immam's words of wisdom as moral justification for what they have been doing.
shaikh
May 18, 2012 11:10pm
Manish, Sirini and all others born in a water well. someone please take them all out and show there's alot good about Paki men around. Please do not suggest, men in all other nations are angels
amit
May 18, 2012 11:05pm
coming from those who abort their female foetuses
karur
May 18, 2012 09:42pm
hats off to Baroness Warsi for calling a spade, a spade! In the light of enlightened Muslims in the UK producing the "Critical Muslim", which seeks to alter the image of Muslims by first seeking ontrospection, this comment by Warsi is commendable.The community must ask pointed questions, if it wishes to stop stereotyping. The reality is that conservative values, which do not allow influence of external ideas, produces some people to carry their warped views to the West and thus stygmatize the community
Thinker
May 18, 2012 09:19pm
To really acknowledge this would be to say that this comes straight from Islam. Non-Muslim women have even fewer rights than Muslim women. They can be raped at will since they are considered women "under the right hand." The problem is in the structure of Islam.
baccha khan
May 18, 2012 09:23pm
mirza ...he is right this is the reason ur nation is failed nation n pakistanis are not allowed visas in other nations ... even gulf islamic nations dont trust pakistanis .. so there ....
javed
May 18, 2012 09:33pm
No. the world things indians are sub-human only :p
navid
May 18, 2012 08:36pm
I am a Pakistani man and I would say that I am a fairly decent person and have respect for women regardless of their race, religion etc... I wonder how can you make a blanket statement like..." She clearly knows that all, if not most of Pakistani men do not have any respect for women".... would you care to explain your reasons???
Aamir
May 18, 2012 08:46pm
Unfortunate, but true.. Cant believe some people are still defensive and calling it Pakistan bashing... those 8 degenerates bashed pakistan and I hope others get the lesson.
haroon
May 18, 2012 08:49pm
May I suggest very respectfully that you ask yourself if the statement made by Ms Warsi is correct. You don't have to publish your answer, because it will contradict your earlier satement. Oh, BTW ridicules is spelled as ridiculous.
khan
May 18, 2012 08:49pm
Abs Right 100% rightly said
@secrettalks
May 18, 2012 08:53pm
Fact's are sacred. And like it or not there is overwhilming evidence that 87% of the men who worked in gang's to picking young girls were pakistani and all 47 of the girls who have been sexually abused in the most recent case were white.
lubna
May 18, 2012 08:23pm
and what about SATTI custom and cast like shhooder ---mr manish first look at yourself,you guys kill /abort female fetuses in india in the largest numbers and if you go to toronto abortion clinics you will find many indians forcing their females to kill their female unborn children
Hasanalirana
May 18, 2012 07:55pm
Gross Generalization is what we need to avoid. these kind of comments paint the whole wall with the same brush.
Faiyaz
May 18, 2012 04:23pm
Please do not generalize all Pakistanis as sex molesters. Are most of child and sex molesters here in North America and other parts of the world Pakistanis!! There are good and bad people every where and it is absolutely wrong to pick on Pakistanis alone. Especially just to unearth your personal grudges against a nation.
khalid
May 18, 2012 07:43pm
What about the superb treatment of Indian Men's, they worship their ladies like bosses and salute themeverytime while coming to home. There is no word like dome stic violence in their dictionary.
Rev Eldrick Lal
May 19, 2012 03:01am
Men are men! But it’s true that most of Pakistani men consider white girls as a fair game. I believe that we all need to respect women regardless of their ethnicity and should not marginalize them.
Faiyaz
May 18, 2012 04:20pm
Guys!! Please do not limit this to Pakistanis!! There are good and bad people all over the world!! So do not pick on Pakistanis just for the sake of it.
A.Bajwa
May 19, 2012 02:48am
A Western woman is not inhibited .If she likes you, she likes you. There are no complications about it. Poor whites area different story. They do fall into traps
Agha Ata
May 18, 2012 07:29pm
To be bluntly honest, many Pakistani men believe that non-Muslim girls are always ready for sex, and that it is not a big deal for them. The biggest culprit who contributed to this notion is Hollywood. But there are other reasons also. In Muslim countries, the demarcation line between men and women can be broken just by shaking hands, where as in the west (and elsewhere) it is different with a very big margin--A very Big Margin--therefore, a young man from a Muslim country erroneously believes that everything is kosher! I can’t be more explicit here. You know what I mean.
Mirza
May 18, 2012 03:44pm
jd shami i suggest you find out more about Pakistani Men before making ridicules comments.
Talha
May 18, 2012 07:07pm
Why are so many Indians reading Pakistani news? You guys should stick to Hindustan Times :)
Arshad
May 18, 2012 07:03pm
Mirza, jd Shami and all these Indian named paid agents know that most Pakistanis treat their women with care. It is just that they are paid for this job to propagate against Pakistan, Pakistanis and Islam. Unfortunately Dawn provides them support too. Why Dawn only print things anti-Pakistan, anti-Islam, I suspect it is paid too. Did you ever see any words against Hindus and India in the Times of India and Hindustan Times or Hindus? Never. I can prove that Hindus and Sikh treat their women much worse that is why the balance of men and women in Indian is shifting with less women and more men. There are lesser women available for marriage so now they buy a woman from poor families and all brothers in the family use her. That is the reality.
amir
May 18, 2012 06:52pm
i think some of the blame lies with these "white women" too, they go looking for bad boys whether pakistani or other race that look, dress gangster and ride in fancy cars.
LeftDoc
May 19, 2012 02:47am
Let's be honest. Is the cultural background truly irrelevant? Can we imagine say a group of Thai buddhist men behaving in this way? Just ask the Bangladeshis how Pakistani men treat even Muslim women. And if they are not Muslim they are certainly considered mere sex-objects.
saleem
May 18, 2012 04:35pm
it is not only about pakistani men it is also about all the men from sub-continent(india-pakistan) asian and arab countries.when it comes to a "gori" they all become "tharki" fellow
Raja Farhat Abbas
May 18, 2012 06:39pm
A lot of antiPakistani indians and even a baloch, defnately an anti pakistani getting in on the act to condem Pakistani men folk for the sake of it.
Afzal
May 19, 2012 02:46am
@ Dawn you throw most of my comments why do you do that if you like sensor ship that much then you should not have any comment box open at all you know my E Mail you can send me the guideline otherwise please post my comments . Thank You
Guest
May 18, 2012 06:38pm
Srini , do not make it a muslim non muslim i.e a religious related matter , in either case its worst . Please be aware , white or non white , Women folks in the so called Advanced developed world , the world of human rights champions , the woman folks are just a commodity under the disguise of art and culture. So do not draw a line on the religious grounds , its not fair comment as I see it
Raja Farhat Abbas
May 18, 2012 06:32pm
jd shami,Genralising is the last refuge of an embecil,and you my friend are an embecil(Imbecile is a medical term used to describe a person with moderate to severe mental retardation, as well as for a type of criminal)..Enough said!..
Tojo Nasmann
May 18, 2012 04:28pm
Why simply single out Pakistani men only. Most white men ( some of my colleagues will disagree but most will go along with me) in saying that even we do not treat women any differently from anybody else unfortunately. As a matter of fact whether it is India, Pakistan, Middle East, South East Asia, or North & South America, women are generally treated as someone to be used in every way. So while i am not a Pakistani or Indian, it is not fair to talk about Pakistani men; open your eyes and look around. Some time when immigrants rise to power in the Western World, they suddenly assume a high moral ground and just because in this particular incident some Pakistani men were implicated is not ground enough to single them out. Any crime of lust, or passion or drugs and or violence against any women anywhere by anybody is not to be tolerated.
miramshah
May 18, 2012 06:12pm
To Pakistanis and Warsi sahiba: Please refrain from issuing blanket statements. Hindus and Christians think they are fair game as well with ample evidence on ' to catch a predator' on MSNBC. ( please youtube it). Pakistan is fair game for drone attacks and Pushtun children are fair targets to Hindus and Christians alike. To the Hindus: Please drive this message home and rescue the outcast widows, young and old, who are treated worse than dalits and have to sing, against their will, at temples to various gods for a few morsels of food. ( Watch Oprah's Indian visit documentary for the same. ) Aborting female fetuses is fair game for you too.
Adil Jadoon
May 19, 2012 02:00am
"all, if not most of Pakistani men do not have any respect for women" I think you need to change the structure eof your sentence here. As for the content it only goes to show your prejudice and ignorance, I guess women are really respected in Bollywood. Men who treat women like these guys should be severely punished and if i knew any of them I will have nothing to do with him or his family.
farhan
May 18, 2012 06:02pm
I think not only some Pakistani men...but also men from many other races including the White race treat their women like fair game. It is unfair, but growing up, a number of men from all races have seen a white body clad in bikinis, skimpy clothing, fashion wear, in glamorous Hollywood roles, and obviously in Porn. Add to these, is the fact that the color White is almost universally considered as the preferred color of the human skin. You can call it a kind of human conditioning, and you have situation where men want to have a "go" at the white girls because of sheer amount sexuality that is attached to their being. Case in point, see how many Blacks go after White girls here, the names they call them and how white girls are sexualized in Rap videos.
Adil Jadoon
May 19, 2012 02:00am
And Indian men dont?
Fawad Sayed
May 18, 2012 05:50pm
Classic example of being more Palestinian then Palestinian themselves. The original reports itself says there is more white on while crime then brown on while crime in UK. These men are b******, like any other b****** in any other nation, ethnicity, religion etc. etc. We have such people in every culture and for politicians to use these criminals in such kind of dragatory way to benefit their failing political career is abhorant.
Abbas
May 18, 2012 05:48pm
Agree with Baroness Warsi and strongly disagree with the commentators who are slandering all Pakistani men.
akhtartak
May 18, 2012 05:37pm
this behaviour earned pakistanis in England bad NAme PAKI
shabut
May 18, 2012 05:36pm
Manish, Srini do sound like Indian names. Which means they come from a country where there is a big gender imbalance since Indians like to kill their girls even before they are born. So before saying anything else to others look into your own backyard first. As for the men who committed the crime must be punished and brought to justice but their crime must not be generalized or linked to a certain race or community. They are just criminals like any other criminals from other races, religions and society. By the way Mrs. Warsi, don't be so quick to link these to Pakistan since they are the product of the British society. It's very convenient to throw dirty laundry onto others and keeping the clean laundry only to yourself.
Raghbir Dhillon
May 18, 2012 04:50pm
Some of the abusers were even religious teachers . There is a big problem in the UK Pakistani community. Warsi spoke a week too late.
Syed
May 18, 2012 05:26pm
O boy! Talk about generalizing! It is sad to see this piece being turned into yet another Pakistan bashing opportunity !
Muhammad Alvi
May 18, 2012 05:34pm
It is a cultural problem. In all Muslim countries, religion is an essential part of culture, and even part of laws of the country. Due to lack of education, Pakistan is severly facing this problem. As one of the comments above states, Pakistani men do not respect any women, they may be white, black, muslim, or non-muslim. Pakistani laws are also to be blamed. There is no equality between men and women under the Pakistani islamic laws. Under the Pakistani laws, a man can marry four women, but a woman cannot have even one and a half. In case of divorce, woman gets nothing (not even the custody of her children). The attitude of Pakistani men is based on such barberic laws, which must be modified as soon as possible, without listening to the 'Mullas'.
Malik
May 18, 2012 05:25pm
I do not agree with you Manish... Not all are same..there are some Men in all communities who treat women badly.. I am sure your culture has some good example.. i can list few here incidents which happend in Brampton and Scarborough... So dont just say Pakistani Men are bad..
Farooq
May 18, 2012 05:23pm
Dear Commentators, There is a problem here with minority amongst us and we are acknowledging it. That's what Baroness Warsi is saying and that's why Dawn is publishing it. Please don't use this to settle your personal vendettas and tar a whole community.
Ali Sher
May 18, 2012 05:22pm
Its always Punjabis doing such disgusting things in foreign countries & it gives a bad name to Sindhis, Balochis, Pakhtoons & people of non-Punjab Provinces from any part of Pakistan. same was the case in Sydney, Australia during the "Ashfield gang rapes" in 2001, when 4 Punjabi brothers were convicted of gang-raping white girls.
Mujtaba
May 18, 2012 05:19pm
Where does my comment go?? If this was Times of India, we could only have found foul language in comments section. Here I couldn't even use the word rub***h...
Irfan Butt
May 18, 2012 05:14pm
Speak for yourself man! I for one have lots of respect of all women. I always maintained it and so do lots of Pakistani men I know, living in USA
Irfan Butt
May 18, 2012 05:10pm
This is an utter non-sense. Criminals are criminals. They did what they did, because they had an easy way to do it. This is no reflection on Islam in particular or Pakistan in general. If they were practicing muslims, they would never do this. I also want to remind the Hindu and Indian posters on this site, that it is not okay for you take any opportunity to blame an entire nation and their religion for deeds of some criminals. I am sure India has no such problem with Hindu badmash men exploiting women? Like I said "Non-Sense"!
khurram Haider
May 18, 2012 05:07pm
Oh forgot sake! stop pointing fingers on Pakistani. We have trouble in a country but it doesn't mean some XZZ nationality will have a go on us. I would advise the indian fellows to first look into their society, how many rapes and human right violation are taking place in india. If you want to comments on us, first look what is happening in your country and how indian have disgraced them self in Australia.
M R I
May 18, 2012 05:04pm
Its a shame to hear incomplete comments from Warsi. No muslim men or women should have extra- marital acts whatever the age. no matter 13 or 103 or male or female. She could have mentioned that non muslim men are also involved with such acts and I am pretty sure these incidents would be more common with non muslim men then muslims. She could also have said that people should not be so much drunk that they don't know whats wrong or right as in case of these girls who are 13 year old and legally they shouldn't be drinking anyways. It is very common in Western countries to dink excessively, loose their minds and get involved in such activities. Main issue is alcohol binge drinking. they should issue statistics as per age, race, sex related to these matters.
khurram Haider
May 18, 2012 05:00pm
Oh forgot sake! stop pointing fingers on Pakistani. We have trouble in a country but it doesn't mean some XZZ nationality will have a go on us. I would advise the indian fellows to first look into their society, how many rapes and human right violation are taking place in india. If you want to comments on us, first look what is happening in your country and how indian have disgraced them self in Australia. Few month back ,an indian raped a 7 year girl. Please have a constructive discussion. Good and bad people are in every society. Hope better sense will prevail
Amina (UK)
May 18, 2012 04:53pm
This is very true that men of Pakistani origin living in the UK are perverts that think white females are for them to use. It is shame for the community to hide this fact. The muslim female is seeing this and will rise up against this disgusting man. If they act like this the muslim sisters will not accept it.
kash
May 18, 2012 04:55pm
indian and pakistani men are same.....
Salim
May 18, 2012 04:56pm
@Manish.. I know a lot of Indian Men in Toronto who treat their women worse than animals.
jd shami
May 18, 2012 03:25pm
Pakistani men have no respect for women of any color.
Guest
May 19, 2012 06:28am
totally agree. lets not be apologetic...one only needs to go out into ANY mkt in pakistan to verify this. pakistani men will leer at women, whistle, make leud gestures and in some cases grope and rub up against women/girls/young boys. its sick.
Afzal
May 19, 2012 02:41am
@Manish before you make any comments about Pakistani men's how they treat there woman's in Toronto you should of did little bit research about how you Indain killing every month a women in B.C. almost every month one or two Indians women being shot or killed with ma shady have your facts straight before writing about any country.Minister Warsi should not paint every Pakistani with same brush I think she forgot where she is from shame on her for making that kind of comments about the entire country.I am a Pakistani do know how I treat my wife or my daughters perhaps I treat them better then most Indians do.
Abdul Rehman
May 19, 2012 05:55am
Outright nonsense. Next time something better is expected from Mr JD Shami
Shaan
May 18, 2012 07:26pm
Most Paki men are treat women with disrespect and especially if women are from non muslim community. These inhuman and barbaric people have no place in a civil society.
khan
May 19, 2012 04:43am
This is not toi where you can write what ever you want.
khattak
May 18, 2012 04:20pm
shami sahib,,,,,ur living in fools paradise,,,,,,if i say white people treat brown colour people(pakistani like do**)wud u have a doubt,,,,,take example of Raymond Devis case,,,,,,,i think our society respect women in true sprite.
Manish
May 18, 2012 04:06pm
I fully agree with JD Shami, Pakistani Men treat their own women in a similar manner here in Toronto.
Reddy
May 18, 2012 04:08pm
The world is so integrated its time to stop this nonsense under the garb of religion and be open to change and keep the so called traditions under wrap and move on with the world shun the face veil and your national dress in foreign countries except in Halloween parties and mingle with the crowd and forget the places of worship and don't congregate in the places of worship . do that silently in your home and get on with the work whichever country you are in and prosper along with the countrymen you are with and next generation will integrate and prosper and send money back to the country of origin and that nation could use this money to come up just like the country you are in. time to reflect and change.
imran
May 18, 2012 03:26pm
I completely agree with baroness warsi. These men are uneducated and low life. They behaved same in Pakistan and they behave same wherever they go. Because of these men whole community suffer who are respectable and honorable people. These people take advantage of soft side of judiciary. These people think every women as their slave specially white women.
kaleem
May 18, 2012 03:31pm
shah se zyada shah ke wafadar
miqbalhsiddiq
May 19, 2012 01:17am
THE PUNUSHMENT GIVEN TO 8 PAKISTANI AND ONE AFGAN IS NOTHING IN MY POINT OF VIEW AND IF I AM THE JUDGE I WILL GIVE SUCH A PUNISHMENT THAT NO ONE EVER DEAR TO DO THIS IN FUTURE.
manish
May 19, 2012 04:18am
who told you that it is prevelant in india only. pakistanis do have the same affliction. but, the thing is that we are trying to change our society for the better.
M.Siddique
May 18, 2012 03:55pm
I agree not all men of pakistani origin behave like this it is only a small minority, which unfortunately gives us all a bad name.
Baloch
May 18, 2012 03:55pm
Agree with Jd shami
raza
May 19, 2012 12:46am
Well lets take all men first in this perspective , by nature all men are same no matter which country they belong to.The difference comes in the up bringing,education,demographics and surroundings.All kinds of men are in all societies and countries so why pin point only one country ? if you look at the data of domestic violence in USA you would be shocked.But then their media does a good job of keeping a lid on it.Madam Minister should not take one isolated case of 8 out of 9 men in one town and start blowing a horn on it. Yes we should respect each other as humans first and then gender wise later and any sane educated man would do it.
Nitin - Pune
May 18, 2012 03:58pm
Why sir why delete my comment??? Because it had word sex?
matthew
May 18, 2012 04:00pm
She know Pakistani Men much better than you do, she is a women
John Doe
May 18, 2012 04:03pm
what an irresponsible comment from Shami!
Srini
May 18, 2012 04:06pm
While she is saying that the "problems has to be acknowledged first", she is actually masking it. She clearly knows that all, if not most of Pakistani men do not have any respect for women. If women are non-muslims, then they are treated as sub-human.
Tipoo
May 19, 2012 03:44am
We, muslims must acknowledge the fact that the status of women in all Muslim societies is that of a concubine.She is a half human being. The husband is considered to be the owner of the wife as he pays money to her parents for her. Things are no different in India. It is not long ago that the woman was incinerated if her husband died. Even now woman is torched and burnt to death if she does not bring enough dowry. So neither Pakistanis nor Indians can boast that they are fair with women.She is in a pitiable condition in both countries!
indian
May 19, 2012 06:21am
that is democracy.............know that word???
Jehanzeb Idrees
May 19, 2012 06:58am
20 million female foetuses aborted in India in the last few years. How's that for giving respect to the opposite gender?
Jehanzeb Idrees
May 19, 2012 07:01am
The figures will make you cry if you have a heart when comparing this barbarity with Pakistanis, you guys have set a unique record in entire human history and Pakistanis can never match that!
Shan
May 19, 2012 08:34am
"All are innocent except Pakistanis." For all those who figure out that only Pakistanis are culprit, they should search about the facts and figures of such cases around the globe then you people have right to say any thing against Pakistanis. First analyse your country then point out others.
Ali Shah
May 19, 2012 07:51am
Dear All, As per my observation there is no all pakistani same.
Tania Khan
May 19, 2012 09:58am
not only pakistanis are involved in it . indians are also a part of it who from the very beginning not giving rights to the women .
Afzal
May 19, 2012 07:14pm
@ Mujtaba I don,t think DAWN knows what they are doing half of the comments disappear from comment box this is not a fair game why so much sensor all the time I write on Yahoo India never ever they hold my comments and read my comments they are publish as soon as I write them but I think DAWN should learn from others like Time of India ,Yahoo India,and others or stay out of this business altogether.
nsausa
May 20, 2012 03:33pm
can any one tell me the difference between a good Pakistani, or a good Indian or a good American, or a good Afghan, the list goes on forever, the good ones know right from wrong, but throw poverty into the mix and a lack of education , and you get criminals, much like the Catholic Priests who have been molesting children since the ages they were not allowed to wed. see how evil works., but you can not generalize so you have very good Catholics and good deceivers. maybe like the Taliban and some Mullahs who have no regard for humanity but a gangster and thug mentality. Unless you understand the above, then you are a part of the problem and lack self realization which can raise you to a higher level higher than the animals that commit this brutal behavior.
kay
May 19, 2012 10:58am
I agree hundred percent with you and I think you women can change with your will and power.
zain
May 19, 2012 11:09am
Where did u get this figure ????
Imran
May 19, 2012 11:47am
Warsi’s comments are out of touch and for western media and political consumptions. First of all we all must condemn sexual predators of all sorts, especially if the victims were minor. What she doesn’t understand the context in which it was reported and bias reporting. The big news was “Pakistani men” having sex with “white girls”. Had it been some Polish or German men involved, it seems, it would have been ok for the British citizens. We do know the sex crimes exist, but we hardly comes across with news like “Irish man” impregnated a white girl or a white minor girl is living with a Polish man.
Syed Abbas
May 19, 2012 12:10pm
Majority of white men believe that white women are fair game. That is the culture here. That is the norm here.
Sunil
May 20, 2012 01:27pm
"Saved Face" the documentary directed by Pakistani woman, won an Oscar, shows how men in Pakistan treat women, specially their wives. No doubt Pakistani men target non-Muslim women for object of pleasure in countries like Canada, US, Europe and Britain.
manish
May 19, 2012 02:04pm
would you like to share those figures with us. and when you will share the data then we can have further discussions.
tahirhamid37
May 20, 2012 06:34pm
Are PAKISTANi men the only people on earth guilty of abusing women or being paedophiles...the whole european and american culture celebrates sex...in USA one woman is raped every four minutes,...and it aint pakistanis doing that..yes if the accused pakistani men are guilty they should be punished but you cant generalize...
Bea
May 20, 2012 01:22pm
Saleem, these girls are between the ages of 12,13 and 14 these are not women these monsters roam around areas where they are care homes for these girls who come from very unstable backgrounds hence they are in care. they target them because these girls are easy to munipilate, these men are Scum and shold spend a very long time behind bars.
Adam (UK)
May 19, 2012 05:04pm
There is much written here about NOT ALL pakistani men are sex abusers. This is true and an obvious fact. The fact is that large number of those abusing young (sometimes13 year old and younger) and often most vulnerable white girls from deprived and broken homes are muslim males of pakistani background. I live in the UK and read of this regularly. What I can not accept or understand is why the community is in denial and fail to take action. Often the abusers are well know and at times religious preachers. This issue should be tackled head on rather than the pakistanis making excuses. Any delays will do much harm to the decent people of the community.
H. Bose, London (UK)
May 19, 2012 05:22pm
Wrong ! In India, at least there is equality between men and women, so far as the law is concerned. In Pakistan, women DO NOT have the same matrimonial and divorce rights as men have. Also, non-muslims simply do not have all the rights which muslims possess. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE ! Faced with criticism over its conduct, laws, and progress generally, there is a tendency among many Pakistanis to equate their country with India. THAT IS PATENTLY NOT THE CASE. India is a modern secular republic, constantly evolving its statutes to improve the lot of its citizens, irrespective of gender, religion, etc. Pakistan being an Islamic republic wedded to Sharia laws, sadly cannot dispense equality to its female and non-muslim citizens. It is time Pakistanis accepted this severe shortcoming in their country. Besides, it is futile to mention the number of rapes in India or the USA as a counter-argument (or oppression of dalits in India) -- Pakistanis must realise these are criminal offences which are punished by due processes of the law, and that these happen everywhere, muslim and non-muslim countries alike.
Bea
May 20, 2012 01:31pm
Not all Pakistanii men the ones that come from Mirpur are the worst no respect for no one let alone their own females, i work in the Health Service here in the UK i was once talking to a lady who was a patient of mine her husband was with her she asked me a question her husband turned around in full view of all the staff and slapped her in the face and told her to shut up.
Shaffiq
May 19, 2012 05:59pm
Baroness Sahiba ... this has nothing to do with Mosques or religion. If these convicts listened and acted upon teachings from the mosque would they then even contemplate such acts. No. The Baroness has gone even further than the right wing press. The press describes them as Pakistani, now Baroness Warsi makes the link to Islam. Well done.
Malone
May 19, 2012 06:26pm
Mr Tipoo: I agree that ``things are no different in India.'' Actually female foeticide rate is higher in India! But please, please do not use ``Indian'' and ``Hindu'' synonymously. We are not, repeat not, a Hindu nation. An Indian can be a Hindu, a Muslim, a Christian, Buddhist, Sikh, Jain, Parsi. Only upper caste Hindus practiced Sati, where a widow was cremated live with her husband. SOME Indians can indeed boast they are fair with women, these are the tribals in the far northeastern part of India who have matriarchal societies. Female foeticide is unheard of in these ``less modern'' societies. The rest of us can learn a thing or two from these people.
Akbar
May 19, 2012 06:27pm
It is true that there is serious problem in the way Pakistan society is structured and the emphasis is placed on religion. Not only this, may terrorist activities are traced to Pakistan. Those Pakistanis who are trying to pour sand to cover up the issue need to know that there will be bigger issues to tackle in future if action is not taken now. It is NOT one but almost ten men who were caught doing the offense. Even OBL found Pakistan safe. Time to think. Law will never work in a nation where religion is considered greater than human life. Everything is being bought back to single issue-islam. Can Pakistan not live without identifying with some religion??? Dhaka, Bangladesh.
Bea
May 20, 2012 01:26pm
they dont go looking the men go looking for them they hang around care homes and pick up these girls they are very young 12,13 year olds they are not "WOMEN" as you point out.
manjee
May 21, 2012 03:16am
JD, you said "Pakistani men have no respect for women of any color." that's not true, I being an Indian Hindu women, have met some nice Pakstani friends, who are good, helpufl,, considerate men.
Shilpa
May 19, 2012 08:37pm
u go to Indian news sites, its full of blogs from pakistanis..Moreover we get a good guess of the thought process in educated pakistanis by visiting Dawn.
Shilpa
May 19, 2012 08:40pm
Democracy is thy name!! We have freedom of speech
Shilpa
May 19, 2012 08:44pm
Sati has been abolished long ago.. Caste system doesnt matter much in real life now..These are things of the ninetenth century...I agree female foeticide is a problem t but remember our law forbids all this..We have equal rights as men do India
Shilpa
May 19, 2012 08:49pm
Its not good to generalize it as : all Pakistani men are like that..These are just criminals which are there in all societies, religions and countries..
Bitter truth
May 21, 2012 02:13am
Original comment was "few Pakistani`s being Predetor on white women"...and its not wrong.All men from Pakistan may (are) excusing themselve by denial.....Its their faviourate mode ...."DENIAL MODE" for all wrong doings. After 1947.....within a centuri...what a name Pakistan has earned in world.Let them be happy by this.Indian or other nationals never deed such a cheap things like these 8 Pakistanis and 1 Afghan did to 13 year old white kids.
Nasrak
May 19, 2012 10:10pm
Well said, were women are treated like dirt bag, they have no say in any society in Muslim world, not in just Pakistan but other countries
mohammad
May 21, 2012 02:19am
we can not say that all PAKISTANIS are bad. such bad people live everywhere. THEY HAVE PROVED TIME AND AGAIN IN ALL COUNTRIES THAT THEY ARE THE BEST.
Anwar
May 20, 2012 01:13am
The problem is that we have taken the bad things of Islam from the illiterate Imams in these mosques. Unless we acknowledge the problem in Islam we can not solve it. To cover up or not talk about wrong doings by Muslim men is Haram. I feel ashamed of these people. Lets punish them and tell others to follow the right path. Lets accept we Pakistanis have done wrong but we also have successful and good people. Lets learn from them, follow them.
omar
May 21, 2012 02:47am
I am a british born pakistani. I am very angry to hear about such men but to actually go and insinuate that pakistani men represent a higher amount of ''this type'' of crime is uninformed. What is ''this sort of crime'' ??? and what are other sorts of sexual crime? The victims were white because they were the most vulnerable and easy targets. How comes non of the victims were of colour?? are you trying to me that these vile men had morals men and would have left an asian girl alone if they had the chance?? if this so, then this is the first time i have heard of criminals having morals. The victims were entirely white because they were the easiest to obtain. Most asian girls run a mile from such men and i am sure these men must of tried. The fact is, we as a society need to protect our women. The fact these victims were all white shows the extent of how society and media sexualise children from a young age. These girls drank and done drugs from a young age, which rendered them helpless. What have their parents done to teach their kids? what has western society done to educate their kids about sex and respect ?? These men deserve to die but at the same time, it wrong to assume that the vast majority of these victims were white was down to prejudice, it was down to white girls being the easiest to lure. Jail these men and protect your children.
manjee
May 21, 2012 02:57am
Thank you for posting the truth.
manjee
May 21, 2012 03:00am
Very true, while living in the US, my Pakistani neighbors were very unfriendly, compared to my Bangledeshi neighbor, Mooru, who was and is a wonderful woman. I think in Pakistan, people are brainwashed against Indians to a large extent. To be fair though, I have made and met wonderful Pakistanis too.
jamshed
May 20, 2012 10:03pm
Check your facts. You are quoting false stats Statistics on the subject are equivocal (unclear). There have been recent high profile cases in Rochdale and Derby, but to tar all Pakistani men is hypocrisy bordering on racism. The criminals should be punished, no matter they are black, white or brown. To find excuses for racist chants by quoting spurious statistics is dishonest. If you do wish to quote stats, be specific with your source and provide the precise references
manjee
May 21, 2012 03:04am
You make a fair point, but you also have to admit that Pakistani laws are also to be blamed. There is no equality between men and women under the Pakistani islamic laws.
manjee
May 21, 2012 03:07am
Because we are intrigued by Pakistan...we always wonder why Pakistanis, almost always wear their religion on their sleeves...also because Dawn is - seriously, an excellent newspaper. I started reading (and got hooked) to Dawn soon after the Times Square plot...I wondered how a highly educated young man could want to mass murder innocent people.
manjee
May 21, 2012 03:09am
Please don't compare the Times of India with Dawn. I'm Indian, and TOI is _____. (Insert bad word of choice)
Cyrus Howell
May 20, 2012 07:38pm
Right. You don't hear anything because in Pakistan women and girls are afraid to tell. The could easily be murdered for that.. The minority of Pakistani men Mrs. Warsi is talking about are the ones who don't care if their wives find out.
Ishtiaq_uk/JK
May 20, 2012 09:20pm
"Muslim guys treat non Muslim girls as objects to pleasure themselves". I am not a scholar....but isn't fornication one of the biggest SINS (ZINA) you can commit outside marriage in islam?!! So how is this islam's fault?! Just a thought.
Ishtiaq_uk/JK
May 20, 2012 09:13pm
As an expat who grew up in UK……there is no doubt in Warsi’s statement. Unfortunatly, this kind of attitude certainly exists in large Asian communities…..to what extents, its anybodys guess! Being in denial and hiding the truth is disgraceful and people should be ashamed of themselves. I fail to understand, how these same people than ‘fly’ the islam flag and feel offended when the west questions it! Having said that it is prudent to note, that the ‘white’ english men get their same ‘lustful’ thrill by going to southest asia on holiday, in particular Thialand to abuse poverty stricken children. So strictly speaking these issues exist in all societies and not just pakistanis.
manjee
May 21, 2012 03:13am
But our laws are pro-women, unlike yours. And that does make a big difference. I do not think Dawn is biased at all.
gary
May 20, 2012 08:53pm
What is that got to do with pakistani men behaving like this.
Muhammad Abdullah
May 21, 2012 07:04am
'Bad things of Islam'.....??? The 'illiterate' imams are not preaching rasicm or sexual harrasment. How many of these offenders went to mosques regularly???
abdullah
May 21, 2012 07:09am
Having lived in the UK for 4 years, im quite sure non of these men went to any mosques. How can you expect people who are drinking and chasing women to go to a mosque and pray five times a day? Just go to a mosque and see for your self before judging people. These people are behaving like this Because they are NOT practising their religion.
nandkishor
May 21, 2012 08:05am
u r right about female fetuses abortion in india but things r changing due to strict law & awareness, male female sex ratio differences higher in pakistan than in india, & u will see much more improvement within five years.
Shez
May 21, 2012 09:42am
Although I agree Pakistan does have a bad record and probably one of the most dangerous places for women but India is also right next to it. India is the fourth most dangerous country. "India's central bureau of investigation estimated that in 2009 about 90% of trafficking took place within the country and that there were some 3 million prostitutes, of which about 40% were children." Therefore instead of just posting a message to showing your hatred for Pakistanis, the message should be that all of us should work towards eradicating this abuse and give dignity and respect to our mothers and sisters, irrespective of where they belong from or faith they follow.
Gerry D'Cunha
May 21, 2012 10:29am
I recall (late) Moin Akhtar's joke on Pakistani men on PTV. He said: how to detect a Pakistani - choose 100 men of different nationality including a Pakistani and make them sit in a row. Now leave a white girl in bikni pass front of these men, all men of different nationality will watch the girl pass them, but a Pakistani will turn his back until she isout of sight.
Muhammad
May 21, 2012 11:50am
Do you really know about the structure of Islam? This has nothing to do with Islam rather with the mentality of Pakistani men and pakistani society.
Faris Laqinaris
May 21, 2012 12:09pm
Right 30%-40% of crimes committed by a miniscule community!! thats a lot my friend. You are right there are good and bad people every where, but something needs to be fixed immediately. There are muslims from other countries as well but how come only pakistanis turn out to be the dangerous ones.
owais
May 21, 2012 01:54pm
Please do not confuse Punjabi Indians with whole of India. Female baby abortions are most rampant in Punjab and Haryana states in India. So, this is more of a cultural problem because of "jhoothi Shaan" syndrome in jat-jaat community of India and Pakistan alike. Sati-custom was never prevalent in Indian culture, and was only started by some Rajput Clans to save their women folk from barbarians Muslim aggressors. Sati system stopped once mulims aggression stopped or they converted most of the Rajput king clans. Shudra's are ruling the Indian states as CM in present day India as they used to do in the medieval times. Its time Pakistanis start to read real NEWS from world media and do not behave like an ostrich when confronted with the truth about India and Pakistan. The truth is, however you compare, India is far ahead of Pakistan in Social, economic, military index. Pakistanis must acknowledge the problem first and then only they could do something about it. Salman Taseer , Bhatti and Murtaza razvi were killed in last 1 year and no one is held except Qadri. and i read that various Judges are not having enough strength to hang Qadri......Let alone catch the real culprit that is Hanif Qureshi.
JoeBlow
May 21, 2012 03:19pm
While it is dangerous to generalize, clearly Pakistan is very much a mideval nation holding on to attitudes which were prevalent during Europe's Dark Ages. A pity the nations Islam, including Pakistan, have fallen so far from the heights achieved at that time. They can rise again but must first must stop blaming others and direct their energies towards advancing themselves.
arshad
May 21, 2012 03:56pm
Head in the sand. Pakistani reputation is gone. Speak up now against evil if you are a real patriot.
Zia
May 21, 2012 04:40pm
Manjee, you are not knowledgeable of Pakistani laws. Your assumption that because Pakistan is majority Muslim therefore the laws are Islamic is misguided. Pakistan has very few laws that are based on Sharia. Pakistan has been and is still largely under a legal system and set of laws left over from the British raj. This particular issue has little to do with Islam and more to do with the upbringing of these men, most of them from less educated class. In contrast there is no such problem with Pakistani men here in the U.S. which has a different class of Pakistani origin population. I am very critical of Islam and religion for that matter myself, but this issue is not of Islam but of education and culture.
Ali
May 22, 2012 07:09am
Lubna, this is the 19th century india that you talking about.. :) can understand your point had we been in the same century, today things are different.. i would like to invite you to visit india now and have a look yourself. women here are leading their lifes with atmost respect, treated at par with men and enjoy all the rights that a bonafide citizen should posses. Yes, there are exceptions here and there, female foeticide is a sin that should be abhored, and in some part of india, still, its prevalant, agree to your point, however, there's a law for it too here, its illegal and if caught, can be some consequences for the culprit. Over here womens can fight for their rights, even against their husbands and more than often wins too. I am not sure if these can be seen in pakistan at the moment. The point i am trying to put here is, ACCEPTANCE. just because someone points out wrongdoings by you, instead of doing self introspection, you are pointing fingers back at them. Thats not how a good human being should behave. If something's wrong then it is wrong for all of us. Pointing fingers back at the accuser will not make anyone free from their responsibilities. We all need to accept our wrongdoings and try to eradicate it to make a better future for our kids. Hope i make sense.. Keep faith.
Ali
May 22, 2012 07:31am
good one... That settles it...
Insomniac
May 22, 2012 07:40am
Its because so many pakistanis watch indian movies... ideally they should have sticked to pakistani movies ;) :D lol... On a serious note mate, everyone i believe respect honesty, truthfulness and i reckon DAWN is one of those few newspaper around who posses these qualities. so why not ? You are also invited to visit THE HINDU, INDIAN EXPRESS news. Have a look and feel good. :)
Ali
May 22, 2012 07:42am
lol.. you got to be kidding me mate..
@AmeenaCh
May 22, 2012 04:24pm
A nation's shame! That is very well put. There were two guys in my class frm khi, pak wd utterly sick, disgusting mentality I have ever seen. All they wanted to do vs hang out 24/7 wd white girls or looking for female friendships for sexual relations. Bcz they moved out on their own for the first time. What A Shame!!!!!!!!! Chinese men are much better!
ali
May 23, 2012 12:51am
U need to read guardian to see what your own women are turning to for protection or today's dawn. Do u think its because of Pakistani men
Ali
May 23, 2012 01:44am
Amazing more Indians here than Pakistanis. They must also be reading today's Dawn or guardian :Indian women turn to firearms to protect themselves" And this is also the reason none of my comments were allowed.
Ali
May 23, 2012 01:49am
Ms. Warsi only wants to score to get reelected. Lets not pay attention
Guest122
Jun 25, 2012 06:32pm
Very good, blame on Mirpur now.
inah
Aug 09, 2012 05:39am
well said...i have a pakistani friend and he is educated and respect women...it's up to the upbringing of the person how he become and treat girls...it's how one was raised. the character of a person shows on how he values himself and respect himself...