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Pakistan cricket: great rivalries and bust ups

Updated Aug 21, 2016 11:45pm


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The evolution of Pakistan cricket teams has triggered a rather queer phenomenon: the notorious squabbling within the Pakistan team has turned itself into the kind of personal rivalries between players that have actually helped them perform in the most stunning manner (both in victory and defeat). It is as if to perform at their best, Pakistani cricketers have had to challenge each another first.

Each time Pakistan plays, the question is, will they swallow the opposition, or combust into flames?

Raja vs. Raja

Late Wasim Raja – elder brother of Rameez Raja – was perhaps the most enigmatic cricketer of the 1970s and early 1980s.

In his book, ‘An All-Round View,’ Imran Khan describes Raja to be one of most gifted stroke makers he had ever seen, but someone who never thought he needed any practice - a carefree trait that did not go down well with Raja’s captains. They all described him as a loner who could not bond well with the team.

Raja bloomed under Muhstaq Muhammad’s captaincy, but not without incidence. Dropped from the team (for being irresponsible) during the 1976 home series against New Zealand, Raja was picked (on skipper Mushtaq’s insistence) in the 18-member squad that toured Australia and West indies during the 1976-77 season.

Pakistan drew the series 1-1 against the Aussies, but Raja did not figure in the final IX, despite scoring a hard-hitting century in a side game. Expecting to be picked for the third test, he was ignored.

In his autobiography, ‘Inside Out,’ Mushtaq writes that he was tempted to select Raja, but since Pakistan were 1-0 down in the series, he wanted a more responsible batsman in the side. Then Mushtaq goes on to describe how badly Raja took the decision.

Raja, in a ‘drunken rage,’ smashed a mirror to bits in his hotel room, and then stumbled across the hotel lobby, accusing the team manager, Shujauddin, of favouritism.

Raja was finally selected (in place of an injured Zaheer) on the West Indian leg of the tour. In a closely fought contest, Pakistan went down 2-1, and ironically, Raja topped the batting averages, scoring more than 500 runs in five tests, with a century and five fifties.

Famous West Indian commentator, Tony Cozier, described Raja’s batting on that tour as ‘breathtaking.’

A future Pakistani Test player, who was then a young member of the touring squad, remembered Raja’s batting (and antics) fondly: ‘He was a law unto himself,’ he told this writer in 1997. ‘Five down for 130 odd, and Raja would come in and hit Joel Garner for a straight six, first ball.’

He also affectionately remembered how Raja, while waiting for his turn to bat (during the second Test on the same tour), slipped out, bumped into a few West Indian fans of his outside the stadium, gleefully shared with them a smoking pipe brimming with  ganja, came back, padded up and went on to score a most prodigious fifty!

Javed Miandad in his book, A Cutting Edge, described Raja as one of the hardest-hitting batsmen. But he also thought Raja was his own greatest enemy.

After having a great tour of India in 1979, (where during one side game in Amritsar, he mischievously threaten to grab the groin of an approaching fan), Raja once again became a frustrating in-out case, finally bidding farewell to cricket in 1985.

Sadly, he died at the age of 55 in 2004.

Mushtaq Muhammad vs. Asif Iqbal

Whenever there is talk of great Pakistani cricket captains, three names spontaneously spring to mind: Imran Khan, A H. Kardar and Mushtaq Muhammad.

It was under Mushtaq that a bunch of individualistic talents became a world-beating side. With Mushtaq at the helm, Pakistan managed to beat New Zealand and India, as well the 1970s’ mighty Australian and West Indian sides.

Highly competitive, Mushtaq is also remembered as the captain who had a habit of taking struggling players to hotel bars and discussing their form over a glass of beer. It was also under him that Pakistanis attempted to match the Aussies’ knack for ‘effective sledging,’ and he turned Miandad and Sarfraz Nawaz into sledging machines!

It was Mushtaq’s good luck that his long-time vice-captain, Asif Iqbal, was also one of his best friends. But as Mushtaq explains in his autobiography, after captaining Pakistan for four years (1976-79), he was suddenly replaced due to ‘Asif’s intrigues. He blamed Asif (and Majid Khan) for ‘stabbing him in the back,’ by telling the selectors that he was ‘over the hill.’

Mushtaq was all set to continue as skipper for the 1979 series against India, when he was asked to retire by the selectors. Asif became the new captain, leading Pakistan across the turbulent series that Pakistan lost, 2-0.

Humiliated, Asif decided to retire after the disastrous tour, and Mushtaq was asked to return as captain. He declined, and instead suggested the board make Miandad the new captain, and which it did (in 1980).

Imran Khan vs. Sarfraz Nawaz

Along with the Wasim-Waqar bowling pair, the Imran-Sarfraz bowling duo is considered to be the best Pakistan cricket has produced.

But unlike Wasim and Waqar, Sarfraz and Imran were also considered to be bosom buddies, and on tours the dashing, ‘playboy’ Imran, and the hard-drinking and boisterous Sarfraz were a regular feature at assorted night clubs. It is said that it was Sarfraz who taught the art of reverse swing to Imran.

The long friendship lasted till 1994 – until Imran Khan began planning to join politics, and refused to welcome the then Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto, when she made a trip to his charity hospital. A long-time supporter of Bhutto’s Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP), Sarfraz had joined the party in 1988.

But what really broke the camel’s back for Nawaz was when Imran (after going through his post-retirement born-again-Muslim routine), started using populist Islamic symbolism and rhetoric. Nawaz went public with his outrage, calling Imran ‘a hypocrite’, saying that a former ‘playboy’ had no right to preach morals. Imran retaliated by calling Nawaz a ‘mad man’ and a ghoonda (scoundrel).

The severe brick baiting between the two has continued unabated.

Javed Miandad vs. Imran Khan

Miandad and Imran are perhaps the two most popular set of cricketers produced by Pakistan. Both served the team together for almost 20 years.

According to a 1996 interview of former Pakistan opener, Mudassar Nazar, Imran and Javed had a ‘classic love-hate relationship’ - a fact that becomes obvious when their assessment of this relationship in their respective autobiographies starts reading like a soggy soap opera! Within a space of a single chapter, Imran in his book, ‘Imran,’ both praises and criticizes Miandad in equal measure. Miandad does the same in his own book, and string after string of sentences showering liberal praise as well as attacks on one another.

Both became friends while playing for Somerset in England in the mid-1970s, where they also shared a flat. However, the friendship began to fall apart after a 23-year-old Miandad replaced Asif Iqbal as captain in 1980.

In 1981, ten players revolted against Miandad’s captaincy and refused to play under him. Miandad blamed Majid Khan and Zaheer Abbas as being the ‘ring leaders’ of the revolt. In his book Miandad suggests that the revolt only became successful when the ‘ring leaders’ convinced Imran to join them. Miandad felt ‘like being stabbed in the back.’

Interestingly, after Miandad stepped down, he told the board that he will not play under either Majid or Zaheer, but will be more than glad to play under Imran. In 1986, Miandad became Imran’s vice-captain.

Some of the most successful ODI and Test cricket by Pakistan was played through the Imran-Miandad ‘think tank,’ an example of which was seen during the fourth Test against England (in England) in 1987.

In an attempt to halt England’s run chase, one side of the wicket was marshaled by captain Imran, while the other side was being maneuvered by his vice-captain, Miandad. The game was saved and Pakistan won the series.

The re-established friendship between the two broke down again when (after Imran’s retirement in 1992), Miandad (as captain) accused Imran of trying to divide the team and get the board to make Wasim Akram captain.

Imran denied the accusation, but in 1993, Miandad stepped down and Akram did become the new skipper.

Miandad retired from cricket in 1996, and has since rekindled his friendship with Imran.

Imran Khan vs. Qasim Umar/Yunus Ahmed

Qasim Umar was a dashing young talent who emerged on the scene in the early 1980s. However, by 1988 he was out, banned by the cricket board.

After a 1986 Australian tour, Umar stunned the media by declaring that Imran and his team were ‘junkies.’ He claimed that most of the players (including Imran) smoked cannabis (hashish) and were involved in prostitution. Umar’s timing couldn’t have been worse. The Pakistan team was on a high (pun not intended), and popularly being led by Imran and his vice-captain, Miandad.

In 1987, after an Indian tour, Yunus Ahmed - who’d been brought out of retirement (by Imran) to play against India - repeated Umar’s accusations, claiming that Imran and his team were ‘drunkards’ and smoked dope.

Ahmed, was banned as well.

Qasim Umar today is a member of the Tableeghi Jamat (Islamic evangelists).

Wasim vs. Waqar

Easily one of the most destructive fast bowling pairs to grace international cricket, Wasim Akram and Waqar Younus were never buddies. According to their own admission, each tried to outdo the other, but of course, it was the team that benefited from this intense rivalry.

Ironically, it was Akram and Waqar who (supposedly on Imran’s instigation), rebelled against Miandad’s captaincy in 1993. Consequently, Akram was named captain, and Waqar became vice-captain.

But the arrangement did not last long. Akram, after being arrested along with a few other Pakistani players, for smoking dope on a Caribbean beach, was disgraced, and Waqar eventually led a players’ revolt against him in 1994.

Akram returned as skipper twice (1996; 1998-99), but his relationship with Waqar remained strained, until both finally reconciled during Waqar’s captaincy (2001-2002).

Inzamam-ul Haq vs. Shoaib Akhtar

Inzamam-ul Haq is ranked up there with greats like Miandad and rightly so. But in spite of captaining Pakistan for three years (2004-2007), he was constantly criticised for being ‘lethargic’ and too defensive.

Some of his critics also point at his born-again religiosity in which he tried to unite the team on the basis of a particular brand of evangelical Islam (tableeghi).

He regularly allowed certain celebrity-turned-preachers into the dressing room. As he went about changing the team’s culture – blaming alcohol, partying and drugs as the main culprits of the team’s problems – he failed on two major counts.

First of all he alienated some players who did not agree with his brand of religion (mainly Abdul Razzaq, Yunus Khan and Shoaib Akhtar); secondly, the ‘Islamisation’ of the team did absolutely nothing to curb the kind of reckless greed that has seen many players fall pray to shady bookies.

Maverick tear-away fast bowler, Shoaib Akhtar, became the most prominent victim of Inzi’s religious dabbling. A throwback of the ‘wild’ Pakistani cricketers of yore, Shoaib constantly squabbled with Inzamam, calling him a hypocrite for dragging religion into sport.

According to cricket journalist, Osman Sammiuddin, Shoaib sometimes openly rebelled against and mocked Inzi’s ‘Raiwind regime.’ Shoaib refused to give up his love of late night partying, saying that it was his personal matter. Then, during a series against England (in 2005), he kept calling Inzamam in the middle of the night, sarcastically asking him to get ready for prayers!

Shoaib remained an outsider in Inzimam’s team, and the tableeghis who became a regular fixture in the dressing room, avoided him like the plague.

‘They found him to be mocking and rude, and stayed clear of him,’ Osman said.

Shoaib lamented that had he been playing under Imran, he would have achieved a lot more as a bowler. Instead, alienated by Inzi and the team’s overt religious fervor, Shoaib stumbled from one controversy to another.

Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.


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Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and He is also the author of two books on the social history of Pakistan, End of the Past and The Pakistan Anti-Hero.

He tweets @NadeemfParacha

The views expressed by this writer and commenters below do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.

Comments (129) Closed

sakeel Oct 07, 2010 07:54pm
If you do follow ten commandments of the religion then you would not drink,take a drug or you would not gamble,what were they doing in England,taking gambling money and consuming alcohol in month of ramadhan,Is following Islam bad for Pakistan cricket?
Dada Oct 04, 2010 09:00am
siddiqui, and you seem to be locked in 632 AD. Move on.
Bilal Oct 03, 2010 07:52am
the team members are muslims first, then cricketers.
Bilal Oct 03, 2010 07:51am
sir, Well said!
Bilal Oct 03, 2010 07:46am
it was about akhtar's elevation in the reference that how a partying, completely un-pious person has more moral character then the somewhat religious (islamic evangelist) members of the squad. The stress was on the religious VS the un-pious. (frankly by religious he automatically is referring to Islamic evangelists)... which is NFP's only obsession, pretty obvious if you read even two more (any) of his articles.
Mashood Oct 14, 2010 03:56pm
really nice article really loved it
Aqil Siddiqi Oct 02, 2010 09:09pm
And that's called "Sportman Spirit", which is lacking big time these days. Aqil Siddiqi(Canada)
Aqil Siddiqi Oct 02, 2010 09:18pm
And there was no religion issue at that time. Back in 70's and 80's we used to play for Pakistan, not these days.
Ejaz Oct 02, 2010 08:10am
Agree, play for country not for religion. Keep religion at home, don't force your thoughts and beliefs on other players as long as they are performing. I can see Pakistani players start kissing grounds and start praying middle of the game is something really crazy to see. Don't mix religion with sports.
faiz Oct 01, 2010 11:27pm
Being a muslim religion should be the prioority mate if we stick to religion all our problems will be solved our reigion is greatest of all which guieds us in every aspect of life so not only cricket it should be follwed in every aspect of life. we call ourselves muslim but majority of us drink alchohol play gambling and do womanizing and all this apply to our cricket team as where majority of boys do all these unreligious activities so howcome we excpet Allah to be on our side so i am true believer of the fact if we as a nation make our deeds according to our religion all ouf ailments and problems will be cured and sloved INSHALLAH. Being a muslim i will appreciate what inzi bhai tried to do i wish he could have brought islamic culture in our cricket.
Sarah Sep 28, 2010 05:37am
Well if that was to be the case, Kaneria would not be playing for Pakistan at all. Second, how many players did you see with the beard playing in his captaincy. Third, I wasn't defending Inzy, but NFP attitude towards criticizing everyone on their religious believes. And last and most important, as you mentioned yourself "praying is a personal thing" .. couldn't agree more with you .. and thats what I've been saying to Mr. NFP .. It is a personal thing so HE should not be bothered if someone does it or not.
Paki Oct 01, 2010 02:42pm
i remember it too. the case was do u go for Miandad's 300 or go for the win. Imran went for the win as records are made to be broken. nobody is bigger than the game.
Gowhar Geelani Sep 27, 2010 12:05pm
Dear Nadeem, I, being a journalist and cricket-lover myself, want to congratulate you for the great piece that has been a wonderful read. What I want is that you continue writing this by taking it forward with more stories of rivalry, say for instance, Mohammad Yousuf Vs Shoaib Malik, or Younis Khan Vs Shoaib Malik, and other stories as well concerning Pakistan cricket. I'm a Kashmiri journalist based in Germany, but have been following Pakistan cricket for more than two decades now! It would be great if you could take the story forward....
Nisar Sep 29, 2010 05:19am
I think Inzamam did his part in bringing a good culture within the team. The religion not only united but gave them a purpose to play for.
Laiqua Sultan Sep 23, 2010 05:57pm
This man Paracha (aka NFP), is quite a writer. Perhaps the most exciting and conroversial we have in Pakistan. I love it when he sets a trap in which he knows all these people will plunge into. He does that, then sits back, enjoying the sight of each one of them proving him right. This is one of the most intriguing pieces on cricket that I have read. And who else but Mr. NFP can be expected to do this. More power to you sir.
Kashif Akhtar Sep 23, 2010 08:26pm
Wasim Akram probably hands down the most talented left arm bowler and the probably the most corrupt of all the Pakistani players. I will never forgive him. He should have been removed for life along with Saleem Malik and Ata.
Tim Sep 23, 2010 08:27pm
Good introspective article! I disagree with defence of shoaib akhtar.late night partying spoils discipline and shoaib has a bad record wrt doping and he once had a fight with Mohammad asif.I agree that religionization of team wasnt a sensible thing specially inzi who equated performance with faith.I think now there should be an article on chairmen cricket board and their handling of pakistani cricket specially ijaz butt and his transformation of pakistani cricket into a circus!
rz Sep 23, 2010 08:38pm
No that was not the article is about. It is about conflicting personalities, hypocrites, friendships of conveniences, duplicity of the moral squad and tribute to the fact that personal business is nobody's business and religion does not belong on the professional field of one kind or the other.
faisal Sep 23, 2010 09:29pm
truly said....Mr. Saqib
MG Sep 26, 2010 09:18am
praying is a personal thing, and no one would appose it. But if you make this as a crietria to be a part of natoinal side, than it is every one business. If you are suggesting that Inzi was not selecting or favouring guys based on thier religious zeal, you have to be living in a fools paradise. I am sure that every one is familiar with Rana Naveed who started sporting a beard, even though he was not a religious person, to be in Inzi good book. What do you say about that??
Muhammad Usmani Sep 26, 2010 09:15am
I still remember Wasim Raja. He was really something on the pitch. The only Pakistani in those days who can take the attack back to West Indies. Zaheer, Inzi and Imran were easily the most hypocritical players we ever had. But we have good days to look ahead.
Nate Gupta Oct 12, 2010 04:52pm
Mr. Malik, Thats not the impression I got from the article. I think NFP was simply trying to highlight the fact that some players like to party. I would agree with Shoaib's outlook - whatever I do in my personal time is my personal affair. As long as a player performs for the team, who cares what he/she does otherwise.
irtizakhan Sep 24, 2010 07:53am
unfortunatey our cricket fall uner the catogories of worst manner, there is problem of manner in pakistan cricket team. first we have to educate our cricketers who to manage the manner in front of general public of people, i am openion incident created from time to time only for pakistan, there is major issue is improper manners of the players and critaria of selection of players is also very dis appointed most of the players are selected in pakistan team with the help of favarism or relative now days there is a remour on record that some selectors are taking illegal gratfication for selection of pakistan players this kind of c utlure should be discouraged and pure merit selection is observed so that merit player will never commit as excljudidng asif/sulman and ahmir they have shown very very poor class of manners
sam Sep 24, 2010 02:14am
Unfortunately that is reality. Glamour in cricket has been from very early days. Our boys some times go over board(drugs) that is our national character.
ADIL Sep 24, 2010 02:45am
Our previous boards made some stupid mistakes like when they handed over the captaincy to Asif Iqbal when Mushtaq who had been performing so well should have continued. But I did not know if there was any rivalry or ill blood between them like the one we knew was prevailing between Imran and Miandiad and between Imran and Sarfaraz.But in any case all the above mentioned players were great and their substitutes will be hard to find, and of all the captains Pakistan has had Mushtaq was the brainiest.His record as captain for both Pakistan and his county Northampton speaks for itself.
Xai Gardezi Sep 24, 2010 03:29am
NFP you are way too redundant and boring. Don't you get tired of repeating same thing again and again? Salman Butt, M Aamir, M Asif, are by far members of any religious group or club Salman and Asif were part of Inzi's team and they never have been that religious. Apart from Mushtaq's appointment as assistant coach I dont think Inzamam did any undue favour to religious ppl. Even that is disputed because Mushtaq is good enough to be England coach as well N it is wrong that Inzi alienated Younus and Razzaq. Are you too naive to forget that it was during Inzi's tenure that vice captaincy was changed from yousuf to younis. While Razzaq really put an axe on his own leg when after getting disheartened from being dropped in just on T20 small scale series, he took retirement and started playing ICL And shoaib really made a joke on himself. What ever the dressing room scenario might be, he was still part of Inzamam's team and plans for the world cup. Instead he had to get into drugs and being tested positive he was thrown out. He wasnt shown any special exit. The exit was solely due to him alone
kaka Sep 24, 2010 04:21am
Sir I was about to say that!
tariqksami Sep 24, 2010 04:31am
Great rivals ; start with Hanif and Fazal. You can be a Mulla or a Hippy and I don't care as long as you perform for the team and for the millions of your countrymen.
ayesha khan Sep 24, 2010 04:52am
NFP criticizes Imran's politics in other articles but he has described Imran as one of the most successful captains. Not sure which facts you are disputing.
Sarah Sep 24, 2010 04:53am
I've been reading NFP's column for quite sometime and I've observed the man cannot hide his hatred towards Islam and Pakistan. Unfortunately number of our media people have same mindset. The easiest job in the world is to criticize, and I pity those who are in forefront to do so but when it comes to give the solution they do not have a word to say. If a person does wrongdoings and is a Muslim, the man should be blamed not the religion. Although this article is not one of his usual type, still I thought to share my feelings about his stereotype approach.
siddiqui Sep 27, 2010 04:39am
The life of a NFP article always starts in the 80s seems he is still locked in there or may be we are all locked up in there. For politics 80s were the turning point. To some extent its true for cricket as well. The first charges of match-fixing surfaced then. I still remember browsing through the Cricketer's 87 issue in my school library archives. And guess what Salim Malik was accused of fixing even in 87. However, the issues facing Pakistan cricket are not the rivalries. They are much more severe. Corruption and gross mis-managment. His last article on corruption in pakistani cricket was a half hearted effort. The only objective I could comprehend was that of Akhtar's elevation.
Umair Ahmed Shaikh Sep 24, 2010 04:59am
There are two types of extremists in the world, one is Islamic extremists that we all know very well, other are the secular extremists which are also good in numbers but since they have more presence in the media, they don't brand themselves in such a way. I consider you Mr. NFP to be the part of this group. I couldn't find even a single article of yours in which you haven't included Islam or Muslims. Your point of view is like that the root cause of all problems lie in religion and practicing religion and this world would be a piece if religion or religious people wouldn't exist.
Mansoor Alvi Sep 24, 2010 05:55am
Excellent article. I do miss our teams of 1970s and 1980s. What great personalities they were. These were teams that may have been flawed in many ways, but they were certainly better than the preachers that Inzi brought in. And Paracha is right when he says that even Islamization by Inzi did not eradicate greed and match-fixing. In fact his policies actually promoted hippocracy.
Nabeel Sep 24, 2010 06:00am
Kudos, NFP for another interesting article. This is a generation that will mistake demons as saviours, and attack those who are actually fighting these demons. What a bunch. :P
marco Sep 24, 2010 06:02am
Pakistani Cricket is a true reflection of Pakistani society now. All we need is a rule of law and true and loyal leaders to take our country out of this mess and the rest will follow, its just a multiplier effect. Our nation is lacking motivation,vision and direction right now and such is the case with Pakistani cricket. Whenever anyone has mixed politics and religion, its a disaster.
Javid Shirazi Oct 10, 2010 07:34am
Excellent article. Thrilled to read it again this week. Carry on NFP.
Shoaib Sep 24, 2010 07:14am
The US. It has business in sports not politics.
Doosra Sep 27, 2010 02:14am
Before the start of any series Sri Lankan team always perform religious players with Buddhist monks. Should they be criticized for enforcing religion and even worse with utter disregard for their christian and muslim players.
Doosra Sep 27, 2010 02:17am
Nothing wrong with criticism. We should embrace all feedback. However, it should be done in a positive manner. Unfortunately, NFP views are never balanced.
incredulous Sep 24, 2010 08:52am
Far as I see it, Islam did anything but harm. I remember Humayun Saeed mentioning and praising the way he found Team Pakistan praying the salaah. That was when we beat India in India 4-2. In fact, other than the World Cup debacle, I dont recall thinking of Inzy's captaincy as bad. He inspired respect and Islam turned the talented set of individuals into a team. And as someone prudently said above, not drinking and partying during a series isnt related to Islam; it is sheer common sense. If Islam happens to be the cause that prevents it, well and good. To think people find what they call "Islamic extremism" worse than drinking and partying.... well my username says it all
Doosra Sep 27, 2010 02:08am
Paracha, As with your other articles your facts are always distorted. Only if you could use your excellent penmanship towards a more balance view. Imran and Miandad played at Worcester. One went to Sussex, the other to Glamorgon. Not sure if you are a subject matter expert on this topic or else you would have highlighted feuds between Saleem Malik and Basit Ali / Rashid or Younis and Inzi or for that matter Lahori / Karachi feud.
Tim Sep 24, 2010 09:42am
@ incredulous mate selection for a job performance based,not faith based.If you want to select an opening batsman,you will search for someone who has a sound technique,not someone who is religious and is a pathetic batsman.When Yousuf broke Viv's world record of highest runs in a calendar year,rameez raja asked him whether his change of faith was instrumental in that achievement. His reply was that his faith was linked to his after life,and there was no connection b/w the two.Inzi faltered in this regard when he used religion as a tool to improve team's performance.Think of it,Inzi's defining moment was 92 world cup where he played breath taking inings in semifinal and final.He was less religious at that time than he was at the end of his career.
Umar Ghous Sep 24, 2010 10:18am
wow. so true. perhaps that's why the australians were the nimber one team. because they said their prayers 5 times a day. what nonsense. let cricket be cricket. what is religion got to do with it.
Al Sep 24, 2010 11:00am
You are being unnecessarily sarcastic. Australians were number one because of the strict discipline in their team - you would not find their players spending the nights before the matches drinking at nightclubs. If Inzamam used religion to ensure that the boys stayed away from these things & focussed on the game no one should be complaining about it. These players have a responsibility. They are representing our country. Anything that brings discipline is welcome. It is certainly better than the antics Mohammad Asif has been upto but i am pretty sure NFP would be singing his praises too if he hadn't been caught up in the current scandal.
sakeel Sep 26, 2010 07:01pm
There are many discrepancies in this article.
Tim Sep 24, 2010 12:03pm
@Al it is pretty obvious that how much imposition of religion has disciplined our cricket team and society as a whole!
two_worlds Sep 26, 2010 02:38pm
2 thumbs up for that comment yunus.
two_worlds Sep 26, 2010 02:37pm
striker, in the English language they call your " tailban like liberal thoughts", statement; an oxymoron. Look it up son :)
two_worlds Sep 26, 2010 02:34pm
seems like after reading many indian comments here showing a lot of respect for pakistan's players- it maybe the only bond of hope between the two countries sans Imran. who has gone off the reservations as we say.
vijay Sep 26, 2010 12:46pm
During one of the matches held in Madras, India, Wasim Raja was trying to avoid the run out and almost slammed into Indian wicket keeper Syed Kirmani. Both of them hugged and supported each other during the clash and made sure the other did not fall down or hurt. Really gracious cricketers. The crowd absolutly loved it and from then on Wasim Raja's every strokeplay was greeted with an thundering applause. Even Indian players did not get that applause.
VAQUAS Sep 26, 2010 11:20am
Thank you Nadeem for making this an interesting read. Really insightful and well researched. What you have talked about is what people generally suspected. I have no problems in using religion or no religion, unless we are winning or united to put a good name for the country.
Asad Sep 26, 2010 11:20am
Comparing Asif Iqbal to Shoaib Malik is a load of nonsense. Asif Iqbal was a true team player. He played for the team not for his records and averages. He was a world class player while Shoaib Malik is a mediocre. He was Pakistan's perennial vice captain. He stood up for the rights of Pakistani cricketers and for better pay and benefits. He is one of Pakistan cricket's legend. He was overlooked for captaincy on many occassions. He did deserve to be captain for a longer period of time.
Adeel Abbas Sep 23, 2010 09:48am
Great article! Rivalry of Rashid Latif and Wasim Akram, Abdul Qadir and Wasim Akram, Younus Khan and Yousuf, and the most importantly Shoaib Malik and Younus Khan is missing. But a great article. Good Work NFP
Kinza Sep 23, 2010 10:48am
Good work... as always :)
Usf Sep 23, 2010 10:50am
Pak Has guts to Tell the Truth , Other are Shy, There are many Scandals in India too Recent with "CWG" We become happy on each other scandals, We should help each other in removing corruption & fixing. This will make our nation Strong & Friendship will last for ever, But We wait for each other scandals and make news out of It..Others should not become happy, Lot of Money was used to Built "CWG" success but corruption ruined it all, If this money had been utilized on poor's it would have been better & country become proud. Also Grain was supposed to rot, but was not given to poor, what are we doing. And what we do at-last we are happy...! The Best way is to Remove all such elements which make us shameful.....! Corruption should be shown Back door...!
Nasser Sep 23, 2010 09:21am
Zabardast. Well done once again, NFP. We expect you to continue giving us unique stuff and you never fail. I was a huge friend of Wasim Raja. What an amazing player. But you are right. He was his own biggest enemy. Also loved the link you have put of a pic of Immy and Sarfraz at an Australian night club. That's a classic pic. What great players they were. Pakistan teams of the 70s and 80s were full of fantastic, colourful characters.
Usf Sep 23, 2010 10:51am
Is Spot Fixing Limited to Players Only, I Think Umpires are Also Involved in This Act, They Have done Lot of Mistake in Past, and are doing at the moment,. In Recent Eng Vs Pak 4th ODI a No Ball was given, while Umer Gul's Foot was on the line. Is this a mistake or Spot Fixing. Don't You think Umpires are to be Questioned. The Spot Fixing is soo Deep that Umpire Also can be Culprit. Don't U think ICC should make an Enquiry on Umpires Decision's, If not Today, But in Future we should Keep Vigil on Umpires. What Do You Think About It ? It is A Question which is to be Answered? Till Now nobody have pointed Finger on Umpires but it seem that Umpires should be questioned. Take it seriously Bcz in Fixing Nobody seem to be clear..?
Sarah Sep 26, 2010 07:32am
AK, if you are doing something great which I cant even think of or do not have guts to do, how would it feel if I start criticizing you. Lets take Mr. Edhi for example, he has given his life to serve the humankind, now the fair thing would only be if I myself do something better than what he has not if I start criticizing his work. Let me ask you one simple thing, to whatever religion you belong to, if a person following same religion does wrong things who should be blamed, him or the religion? Or if a person following your religion is more faithful than you, should you start criticizing him or your religion? Criticism should be fair, healthy and better if backed-up by solutions. I don't know why NFP cant stand if a modern man turns more religious, Born again Muslim Imran, or Inzy leading prayers, shouldn't bother Mr. NFP.
shailesh Sep 23, 2010 08:07am
very nice article. inside story of pakistan cricket team ! plz also write about reasons of match fixing in pakistan cricket. how its embedded deeply, how many cases from the past and how they try to cover it up, etc etc
Haris Ghole Sep 23, 2010 08:04am
Pakistani cricket has more politics in it... than it has in its "politics" *politics*... :)
Sabih Zafar Ullah Sep 30, 2010 05:08am
The purpose to play for should have been the country, not religion; but in reality it is just money.
Aqil Siddiqi Sep 26, 2010 06:20am
He had to, what do you think, he would have wrote in his book, he was a bad captain. Because of Imran's Iron Fist and Firm Control of his team, and Javed's Brilliant Mind, Pakistan, was once the most Feared and Formidable team.
Aqil Siddiqi Sep 26, 2010 06:24am
Give them time.....Hahahahaha
Zahid Oct 08, 2010 02:47pm
Now why would Imran be jealous of someone like Miandad? Is it education? maybe looks? maybe accomplishment on and off the field? name recognition? respect? anything? anything at all? What have you been smooking? I want some of that too. Imran made the right decision because it the end of the day, it all comes down to winning and pakistan won the game. Who knows what would have happend if he had allowed Miandad to try to break the record and how do you know that Miandad would have brooken record? think before you speak or write.
Jamal Syed Sep 24, 2010 07:30pm
Thank you!! very well said.
Al Sep 23, 2010 11:28am
There is a desperate attempt by the writer to draw a relationship between being overtly religious & being corrupt & a hypocrite. There is none. He tries to insinuate that drinking, partying & prostitution were personal & harmless activities that the players engaged in & that they performed despite of all these activities. And on the other hand he suggests that those that were tableeghi like Inzimam were failures because that could not stop the players from getting involved in the betting scandals & alienated the players that did not subscribe to their brand of religion. Now whatever 'brand of islam' anyone follows drinking & prostitution are certainly not considered acceptable activities. Secondly, whether one is religious or not, strict discipline must be enforced on the players. No other team tolerates its players partying away the night before their matches. These are professional athletes & this has nothing to do with religion. They can do whatever they want in their off time or when they are not on tour. Might i say that unfortunately for NFP, the current crop of players caught up in the scandal were not religious or tableeghi - otherwise he would be jumping up & down to point out the relationship between being religious & a cheat. Being religious or not does not have anything to do with being honest or a cheat. Two of the most honest players in my opinion who sacrificed their careers, Aamir Sohail & Rashid Latif were not religious but they were honest.
Anjum Amin Siddiqui Sep 23, 2010 11:29am
Mr. Paracha Imran & Miandad played for Sussex not for Somerset.
asif Sep 23, 2010 11:29am
Shame on you British Media, shame on u.
Analytical Engine Sep 30, 2010 04:52am
Finally,something beyond religion...
Irfan Hussain Sep 24, 2010 03:27pm
Game should remain game at all cost - and players should be restricted no to involve in 'other' activities. If someone wants to do Tableegh of any religion, they should only do it when out of the game/tour. Pakistani Tax payers' money should be spent on cricket only as the tax payers have not allowed the cricket team yet to spend their money on spreading one perticular brand of religion.
IndianMuslim Sep 26, 2010 03:55am
I would vote for that. Don't involve religion in sports/politics etc. It is grossly unfair to the minorities. Religion is a personal choice. Don't make it the choice of an entire country. What you think is your expression of your religion is just plain selfishness. You believe in something and so you want others to believe in that too - if they don't you force them. A nation has to be founded on secular ideals. The goal of the nation should be the prosperity of all its citizens, regardless of their race/religion/color. Look around and you will see that in today's world, only such nations have a high amount of happiness in an average person's life. An average Pakistani (whose country accepted a religion as state policy) is much more unhappy then say an average Norwegian (whose country is secular).
Ratnesh Jachak,Dhamtari,C.G.,INDIA Sep 25, 2010 03:19am
Imran vs Javed , I had a memry of 1982 India vs Pak series held in Pak, Pakistan lead 2-0 after third test. In fourth test batting first by Pak & Javed was 280 not out, suddenly Imran declared the inning..If any Paki remembered that instance then reply me that was jealously or good desicion ?
Fawad Sep 24, 2010 03:54pm
Well this is what secularists do best. They love to use the word 'Munafiq' as well, makes me wonder who is the real hypocrite?
Fawad Sep 24, 2010 03:59pm
I remember Moin Khan visiting the college as Chief Guest (Rashid Latif was Pakistan first choice keeper in those days) and my father asking him, "Moin, what do you think of your chances of making it back to the team?". Moin candidly replied, "Sir, Rashid is a much better keeper than me, I have to focus on and improve my batting a lot to come back into the team." I can never forget these comments, because as luck would have it, Moin made a successful comeback a few months later. I praise Moin for not getting into negative politics against Rashid and instead focusing on his own talents. Having said that, Rashid was the best keeper hands down.
serish Sep 24, 2010 04:09pm
Nadeem Bhai I know that we don't like this praying business but here it should be prey, I guess. "nothing to curb the kind of reckless greed that has seen many players fall pray to shady bookies."
Janjua Sep 23, 2010 03:23pm
NFP, Thanks for the article. Spot ON once again.. Shoaib Akhtar is the Greatest Treat to watch taking wickets and destroying the batting line-ups. Other things are his personal issues and one Inzi did a very bad thing by mixing the religion with Cricket. Regards, A Big Fan of Shoaib Akhtar from Rawalpindi
Aqil Siddiqi Sep 26, 2010 01:53am
That was a regerettable blunder by Imran. I think, it was a bit of jealousy, played it's part too. I am sure, if Javed would have played on, he would have broken, Sobers record(He was in such a good form those days). We are our own worst enemies many times, and see, where we are standing right now????May be Javed would have forgiven Imran for that, but not me, and I am sure many more like me either.
Syed Rezwi Sep 23, 2010 03:21pm
The cricket brain-storming which statred taking place after the launch of Mushtaq's captaincy in 1976 NZ-series made its way to WCP winner in 1992 under Imran. Off all the rivalries & bust-ups, some body started the process & somebody else finished it. I am not sure that I will see a revisit of that era in my life time, but however I witnessed my green team holding the CUP 18 yrs ago which I am proud of.
Aqil Siddiqi Sep 26, 2010 01:47am
Right on Yawar. This is the problem with people in Pakistan these days, instead of admitting of our short comings, we try to hide under the blanket. We are in big denial mode. We sould try to fix the problen, not to make excuses. Religion, politics and sports should not be mixed, other wise, we will have a nation on slippery slopes going down the hill. Unfortunately, Pakistan is in very slippery sloopes these days, and no hope in sight. May be each one of us, should read "Jawab E Shikwa" by the greatest poet of our times, Allama Iqbal, and try to comprehend, what he is tryng to tell us.
Omarr Sep 23, 2010 02:51pm
moin vs rashid?
Dr Arshad Sep 23, 2010 11:48am
I think Mr NFP is obsessed with So called Religious minds, showing them his thumbs down gesture whenever he can.
Conspiracy Tehreek Sep 25, 2010 01:28am
Interesting read.The team used to win when we had full-time, professional cricketers...we dont have that anymore unfortunately..
Amar Sep 25, 2010 01:48am
Exactly..! If you look at the centuries old of human history across the countries its the religion which killed more people than anything else..! What purpose does it server when it cannot instill peace and tranquillity instead spread hatred and a feeling of false supremacy. Religion is supposed to be a way of life and not the one which ends it. And don't confuse with God with religion. Religion which supposed to be a private affair has become a tool in the hands of the rulers to control the masses by fueling hatred and false supremacy. This is the case with all the religions.
Nadeem Sep 24, 2010 09:13pm
What kind of author this guy is. Never knew we had such writers here in Pakistan as well. Next thing you know, they are against the name of our capital..... "Change Islamabad to Secularabad"...
hassan Sep 25, 2010 03:43am
its fanaticism...nt religion is cricket ..nthing to do woth religion.. u cnt force it upon some one ..
hassan Sep 25, 2010 03:45am
by the way Afridi used to lead the prayers .. :) now u want him out too bro ? :P
Striker Sep 25, 2010 04:21am
Only if I had knew who wrote this article before reading it I would have not wasted my time. He found a way to express his taliban like liberal thoughts even in sports column :(... leave sports alone NPF
mansoor Sep 23, 2010 11:57am
haris, for that matter, which country does not have politics in sports, name one for me, will you ?
Shantanu Goswami (India) Sep 23, 2010 11:59am
Yes, we are really ashamed of the CWG mess that has brought a very bad reputation to our country. Saying so today INDIA is a rising global power and sooner than later our democracy will weed out corruption.
John Tauro Sep 25, 2010 09:01pm
AK, very well said. You are so right. If we take pride in our culture of corruption, we won't change for better.
Murtaza Ali Jafri Sep 23, 2010 12:00pm
Great piece. Really enjoyed Nadeem getting out of his usual Political Slandering Satire. Interested how all of the teams failings are in some way linked to booze, cannabis, prostitution and power (the Captaincy). Makes me wonder if that is indeed part of the problem and if we've just ignored it all this time. And the fact that their are no rivalries due to the match fixing scandals appear a bit odd. Rashid Latif deserves a mention here. I also never realized that the team has revolted against it's captain so often. It's almost like a 3rd World Country trying to overthrow an imperial appointed dictator....oh wait. I do agree with Shoaib that what he does in his personal life is entirely up to him, genital warts and what not. That said, I feel that if the players want to booze, that they don't do it on tour. After all, they are our nations most visible ambassadors.
yawar Sep 23, 2010 12:00pm
The more religious the team has gotten, the more neck-deep they have fallen in corrupt practices like bribery and match-fixing. Stop being so reactionary. In an article, 'Rough Diamonds' for his column in Dawn, Paracha rightly mentions that only person never to be tainted by the practice of match-fixing has been 'bad boy' Shoaib Akhtar. So true.
sal Sep 23, 2010 12:22pm
Not true... Many others have also not been tainted by allegations of match fixing, like afridi, yunus khan, Ajmal, Hafeez, S Malik, Razzak, etc...
yawar Sep 25, 2010 06:23am
I could you not know who wrote this article? Okay, so you do not like NFP's secular take on issues, but when you say 'leave sports alone NFP,' how come you do not mention the Tableeghis who infested our team?
ruchit Sep 25, 2010 05:42am
As an Indian I would like to say that if Dawn's readership truly represents Pakistan's educated class (in particular middle class) then Pakistanis probably are more genuinely secular(secular not meaning being non religious or anti-religious but being open minded about own and other religions) than what we back home. Of course I guess Dawn is one of most sensible papers in Pakistan.
Striker Sep 25, 2010 09:59pm
@yawar, Player being religious or not religious..... what it has to do with sports? These players get selected because they can bowl and bat not they went to Tableegi Ijtimah. Neither Shoaib, Asif and Aamir get selected because they have low moral values and can fix match or change condition of ball. They are in team because they are good bowlers.
Rahi Khan Sep 24, 2010 07:00pm
Totally Agree... To your last line. There is no if in that though. Start counting all the bloodshed being happened in last 2000 years and you will find the answer. Humans can be in much better shape without religon.. Kuddos to NFP.
Saqib Ilyas Sep 23, 2010 12:44pm
The article seems to revolve around the theme of drugs, prostitution and drinking. It seems to be designed to send the covert signal that Pakistani cricketers, present and past are drunkards, drug abusers, and into illicit sex. The rest of the information is known to just about everyone.
Zohaib. Sep 23, 2010 04:17pm
What politics have you been following... :p
Genii Sep 25, 2010 08:03pm
Let him lead the players and if he wants let him lead the prayer as well... why the fuss...
Muhammad Nauman Sep 23, 2010 12:25pm
Nice comments. Agree with you Al.
Al Sep 23, 2010 12:37pm
My post sounds reactionary to you? Please read it again. I am pointing out attempts by the writer to draw links between being religious & being corrupt on the one hand - and being a partying, drinking playboy & being a great cricketer on the other. There is no relationship. As i pointed out Rashid Latif & Amir Sohail were not religious but more honest than anyone our cricket has seen - neither have we heard any stories of them partying & drinking & living a playboy lifestyle. Of the players caught up in the betting scandal of the 90's, none were religious at the time - Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq, Inzimam, Ata-ur-rehman, Salim Malik etc. A few of them turned religious afterwards, a few them remained the same. There is no link & the writer is desperately trying to imply there is one.
Sarah Sep 24, 2010 05:06pm
I agree with you. Unfortunately there are people who have same way of thinking, I mean if we are unable to fulfill our obligations thats one thing, but to criticize those who are and worse, putting-in our own ideology in such matter is the height of weirdness. So what if Inzy offered prayers, is it a bad thing? Shouldn't he? So what if the team players did with him too? Did he force them? Wasn't Kaneria a part of the team in his captaincy? I do not know what has to us, I mean let alone us doing the right thing, we cannot even stand if someone else does too. Shame on you NFP
vijay Sep 25, 2010 06:23pm
I vividly remember Wasim Raja. In Madras, India, I was in school in the late 70 and early 80's and we use to love Wasim Raja even while he was slamming Indian Bowlers. He used to be a perfect gentlemen in the field and off field with fans. I am a bit surprised that he did not get along with his teammates. He would have a been a good ambassodor of sports between India-Pakistan
UM Sep 23, 2010 04:16pm
I don't see why you should praise bad boy image and criticize anyone who wants to be religious. If someone opts to be religious its their choice and should be respected. Drinking and partying on tour?! give me a break!!! Cricketers are supposed to be professional while on tour...if you want to drink/party do it outside play (nothing religious about it, its common sense)
Ali Sep 24, 2010 04:30pm
Very true, Tim.
A Haseeb Sep 23, 2010 04:24pm
Well said.
Malik Sep 25, 2010 04:30pm
It seems that NFP belives that partying hard really helps a cricketer in performing well. But that is not the case. Andrew Symonds is a case in point. Australians, certainly not tablighees, showed him the door for his activities away from the ground. Shoaib Akhtar's career is full of incidents where he ditched the team willfully--he feigned injury in Rawalpindi test agasint India under Inzimam, as Pakistan lost the match and the series. Shoaib himself responsible for what he is today. A strong individual, he never became a team man.
somaiyah Sep 23, 2010 01:27pm
but he's praised Imran's captainship. What are you on about?
Asif Sep 23, 2010 01:12pm
As a small kid I remember going often to the University ground in Lahore to watch Wasim Hasan Raja bat. Amazing talent, amazing. It is a large ground but his sixes would still pose a hazard to the traffic on the busy roads on two of the sides of the ground. Mushtaq Mouhammed (along with Imran) was the best captain we ever had. Daring, imaginative, and insightful. Unfortunately the captaincy came to him when he was already almost done as a player. He won 8 (lost 4) out of the nineteen tests he captained. {Aust 2/5, WI 1/5, India 2/3, 3/6) He drew two series in Australia. Asif Iqbal was a good batsman to watch, very nimble on his feet and mentally strong. As a person, he was a schemer, always up to some intrigue
Shahbaz Asif Tahir Sep 23, 2010 01:12pm
Imran Khan and Javed Miandad played together for Sussex, and never for Somerset. Whether Paracha would like to believe it or not, the Pakistan cricket team without Imran was like a ship without a rudder. Imran was the greatest cricketer from Pakistan, who won a series against India ,in India, England in England, New Zeland in New Zeland, and almost close to winning one in the West Indes. My advise to Paracha is to learn how to write facts correctly.
Aqil Siddiqi Sep 23, 2010 05:01pm
The think tank behind Imran's captaincy and success was none other then the good old fox name "Javed Miandad". Because of Imran's Charismatic Stature, and bold outlook, he was always in fore front. Imran knew how to handle his players, and how to talk to media, some thing Javed always lacked. And it's not just fiction, it's a truth, even Imran won't deny.
Moazzam Sep 23, 2010 05:07pm
another minor mistake, Wasim Raja passed away in 2006, 2 years later than NFP wanted him to die i wonder if it is mandatory to write if u someone doesn't have a clue of the topic
Hassan Sep 23, 2010 01:12pm
spot on AL
O. Sami Sep 23, 2010 03:27pm
Agreed. Terrific piece, indeed. memories of a much more exciting times in pak cricket. I remember no pakistani player before inzi needed to invoke the fear of god in cricket. they treated it as a worldly game, not a key to heaven. Top article, NFP.
delpihero Sep 23, 2010 01:18pm
Shoaib malik vs mohammad yousaf vs younis khan vs salman butt vs shoaib akhtar vs Mohammad Asif vs Ijaz Butt - They missed that one out, the best of the lot
SJ Sep 23, 2010 02:26pm
Correct me if I am wrong, but if the foot lands on the line, its a no ball. A part of the foot (or boot) has to land before the line to be legal. I have not seen the footage so can't comment on the acutal incident.
Zahid Oct 08, 2010 02:37pm
you are speaking for yourself. People like you are the reason we have become laughing stock of developed countries. What exactly makes your religion better than any other religion? Is it a better religion because someone like you follow it? I think not.
Tahir Razvi Sep 23, 2010 02:23pm
buddy this is a minor mistake from Nadeem, check out the rest of his writing.
rafique hassan Sep 23, 2010 01:37pm
Nadeem was quoting from the Justice Qayum Report in that article, for heavens sake. And what is this obsession of becoming self-appointed defenders of faith? It is is not NFP who is fixing games and stabbing people in the back for power and money. It is our players and politicians.
Usama Sep 23, 2010 02:00pm
Aptly put. NFP wont have problems with the team full of debauched players but the players with religious bent of mind will always vex him..
riz Sep 25, 2010 08:31pm
@ yawar more than agreed man!
adnan Sep 23, 2010 04:06pm
The best team pakistan ever produced was the team of late 70's under mushtaq mohammad. Majid, sadiq, zaheer, miandad, mushtaq, asif, imran, bari, sarfarz, raja/haroon rasheed, sikandar/iqbal qasim - truly world class
Shahzad Sep 25, 2010 09:30am
So Pakistan team is going down the drain and religion is to blame? So Tim is suggesting that we are failing as a state and as a nation because we are muslims or because we call ourselves muslims and don't follow Islam or parts thereof? So going on a partying and drinking spree in between a match series in a foreign country is the right thing to do? How dare you lot blame religion for the lack of admninistrative structure and training. I know that "blind leading the blind" is the motto of the corrupt PCB and an in-experienced team. But who is going to challenge it?
yunus Sep 25, 2010 08:31am
he should lead the players, not the prayers.
AK Sep 25, 2010 08:19am
"The easiest job in the world is to criticize", You got that one wrong Sarah, "The easiest job in the world is to praise" To criticize is to be critical, which is not possible if you can't think. Critical is what we Pakistani's are not. If you don't be critical you cannot change. We need to criticize everything including religion, politics, culture, tradition, and society. We won't learn much if we keep praising our existing condition. If you praise, your saying it's the ideal way to be. Do you think the current condition of our people, traditions, society, culture, morals, ideals, and religion is ideal? Obviously not! That's why we need more criticism and much less wishful praise.
Tim Sep 25, 2010 07:38am
@ hassan if afridi starts under performing or indulges in match/spot fixing,should he be ejected or his place should remain untouched just because he leads the prayers? What we need now for a squad-6 batsmen,a wicketkeeper,3 bowlers and an all rounder who can also lead prayers.I dont think its NFP who is making fun of religion ,it is these type of comments which are making fun of religion. If PCB can hire an English tutor,why don't they acquire services of a full time imam who can lead the prayers at tours.
ashraf Sep 25, 2010 07:07am
yes it was jealous of imran, he dont want miandad to brake record . i remember muddssar nazar and miandad made highest 4th wicket partnership... but allha gave miandad more fame , remember six in last ball of dubai.... long live miandad...... now imran can be good polictician... i hope he can change courtry system......
yawar Sep 25, 2010 06:20am
Err ... Tim I think was being sarcastic, Al. I hope.