Govt endorses summary to get 8 submarines from China, defence committee told
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ISLAMABAD: Naval officials informed the Standing Committee on Defence Monday that the federal government has endorsed a summary to get eight submarines from China.
Pakistan's military has long been a major importer of defence equipment, particularly from key ally China.
After the Cold War ended Pakistan began to deepen defence and economic ties with China.
Take a look: With new JF-17, Pakistan aims for boost to defence exports
The committee was informed that Secretary of the Economic Affairs division Muhammad Saleem Sethi would be leaving for China tomorrow where the issue is expected to come under discussion.
The officials also said that the national security committee will give the final nod to go ahead with the plan to get eight submarines from China.
"Other proposals are under consideration as well. The Pakistan navy is also in touch with Germany, Britain and France to purchase used submarines," officials informed the committee.
Keeping in view the level of threat and the present status of submarines, naval officials said Pakistan needed the latest submarines.
The naval officials also revealed that France had refused to provide submarines to Pakistan.
They said there seemed to be various reasons behind France's refusal to sell submarines to Pakistan — including an issue of technology transfer. On the other hand, they said France was selling its submarines to India.
The naval officials rejected some committee members' concerns that Chinese technology was not of satisfactory quality.They said there was no such issue at hand as JF-17 has proven to be a world class military jet.
The officials informed the standing committee that Pakistan's defence relations with Russia were also improving.
On the other hand, there appeared to be a divide among committee members whether Pakistan should send troops to Saudi Arabia.
Defence Secretary Lieutenant General (retd) Alam Khattak said that the Pakistan Army would abide by the government's decision on whether to send troops to Saudi Arabia to partake in a military campaign in Yemen.
This was the first time that the defence secretary spelled out the official stance of the Pakistan Army on sending troops to Saudi Arabia to partake in a military campaign in Yemen.
His brief comment came in response to a volley of questions by committee members as to whether military troops would be sent to the Saudi kingdom.
Chairman Sheikh Rohail Asghar maintained that the Pakistan Army should chase terrorists regardless of their location but women members belonging to the Muttahida Qaumi Movement (MQM) and Awami National Party (ANP) had a different point of view.
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On DawnNews
Mar 31, 2015 04:52pm
They first asked from France & Germany for Submarines & Technology but both declined the demand so obviously next stop China.
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Mar 31, 2015 04:56pm
Russia is also very concerned about defense relation with Pakistan since India diverted towards US. Its commendable job of Pakistan,s foreign policy that we are engaged with both supper power like Russia and China. And also Not bad with US as well.
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Mar 31, 2015 04:58pm
which submarines?? State the type number
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Mar 31, 2015 05:01pm
A shame for Pakistan & its govt in respect of French refusal to sell submarines. To be honest, I am not surprised considering that India is being flooded with offers from world countries for military provsion including civilain nuclear power by the US under a special deal. Confirms the respect Pakistan enjoys amongst world contries!!!!! lol
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Mar 31, 2015 05:03pm
As we are getting squeezed out of latest technology , we would do well to come up with low tech solutions like unmanned drone submarines ........they are easy to operate as they don't need life support for humans
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Mar 31, 2015 05:05pm
we must since our neighbor has them.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:19pm
Can Pakistan afford any submarine???
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Mar 31, 2015 05:23pm
Great decision, we need to look east rather than west.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:24pm
Oh, so we have the money to buy to buy submarines but not fix load-shedding. Interesting
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Mar 31, 2015 05:25pm
I doubt the Taliban are concerned - you know the bad guys who have killed around 50,000 of your fellow Pakistanis. Maybe you should spend your defense budget on handing the problem that exist rather than the boogeyman.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:27pm
Sir,
Avoid the Chinese and go for the Western or even Russian submarines if possible.
Why we cannot build our own submarines when Iran can build its own.
Regards
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Mar 31, 2015 05:29pm
Submarines are critical and an affordable way to protect pakistans coastline. All it takes is one torpedo and an aircraft carrier is done for. I don't trust the French whose fade dense department is rampant in bribes and have no loyalties to their customer. I hope pakistan goes for German technologies and/or jointly develops one with China.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:36pm
@ZAK Expecting your comments on "Pakistanis seem to love Indians. Do Indians feel the same way"?
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Mar 31, 2015 05:39pm
Does we have really that budget and professionlism to specify and acquire on time. Never it had happend. Why we are always after cheap third gread steal recycled manytimes in chines mills using to produce Nuclear reactors, submarines. Are these never prooven never tested. Our choice is same like Chines cheap qualaity.....
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Mar 31, 2015 05:40pm
"The naval officials rejected some committee members' concerns that Chinese technology was not of satisfactory quality.They said there was no such issue at hand as JF-17 has proven to be a world class military jet."
One who makes world class jets will ALSO make good submarines?....
..wow!!!
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Mar 31, 2015 05:45pm
Nice looking submarine I have to admit.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:49pm
France is an unreliable country as it had blocked the delivery of Augusta Submarine during the Kargil crises. Besides it is still stuck with uncivilized crusader mind set. It also has poor human rights record and therefore our money should not be spent in France. If we really have to spend on Submarines that we should go with China. Since we will not be fighting any wars in near future a better option would be to strengthing maritime security and improvinf the nuclear deterrent.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:49pm
Why we are not promoting local and indigenous development?. Why we are dependent on foreign countries to meet our demands and needs. ?. Why no local research companies are being established to Research, Develop and produce these products in Pakistan?
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Mar 31, 2015 05:51pm
@Humza Agreed..
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Mar 31, 2015 05:53pm
When 3 of the 4 french submarines were built in Karachi, they said now we can build them ourselves as we have got the technology. I would be interested to know what our own capabilities are. Secondly, we need a couple of silent vessels, I mean neuclear submarines which are hard to detect as compared to the diesel driven. Specially if our plans are to use them for delivering the neuclears.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:55pm
Now Pakistan is having very good relation with Russia as well which is very unprecedented.
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Mar 31, 2015 05:58pm
What happens to Augusta submarines project ?
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Mar 31, 2015 05:58pm
It seems they are going to be house Pakistan second strike nuclear capability.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:03pm
Pakistan is looking for Nucleuar capable submarines.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:07pm
@DJ I have responded with the truth.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:11pm
Oh my most beautiful Pakistan will now be forced to spend on arms and driven to bankruptcy.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:29pm
Such a waste of money: let's not get forget our priorities. 1. Economy 2. Terrorism
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Mar 31, 2015 06:30pm
We should wait till china develops the jet powered propulsion system. It will reduce radar signature of the submarine. Also Air independent propulsion and surface strike capability is a must to counter threat from Eastern Borders.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:33pm
@Humza
or money to buy railway engines.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:34pm
What happened to those sumarines which we were assembling at Karachi and boasting of self reliance.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:39pm
These are most probably the Yuan 041 class subs.Like the German uboats these too are equipped with an independent air propulsion system , add the ability to launch cruise missile into to the mix and you end up with a 2nd strike nuclear deterrent platform. Acquiring them is imperative to our navy's regional ambitions.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:44pm
@Riaz we were rejected by the west. that is why we looked east.
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Mar 31, 2015 06:56pm
@idea khan We are not spending a dime on this, it is Chinese owned and operated by them, we are only showing to the world that we own them and stationed in Arabian sea , to launch quickly when need be.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:09pm
With another uncalled for war on the doorstep and no electricity, Pakistan wants to buy submarines!
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Mar 31, 2015 07:29pm
Who exactly is planning to attack Pakistan? Most countries are afraid of Pakistan causing problem for them. Each submarine can feed half of Karachi for six months.
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Mar 31, 2015 07:57pm
To "get" 8 submarines from China and to "purchase" used submarines from Britain and Germany ?
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Mar 31, 2015 08:19pm
Since France and Germany said no and Britain has no diesel subs,pakistan had no hoisted but to run to china and beg for some c grade subs.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:22pm
Pakistan has a ship building facility, necessary technology and man power to design and manufacture submarine of it's own. After the successful example of JF-17 Jet, Pakistan should design and manufacture submarines in Pakistan with collaboration of Russia, China and Turkey.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:22pm
I think Pakistan need 80 submarines not 8.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:23pm
Western countries not even giving used submarines to Pakistan.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:24pm
I think Chinese Type 039A might be discussed here. Although this purchase is unnecessary right now and what is needed is to strengthen domestic police, intelligence and paramilitary forces and campaigns for internal security.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:38pm
@ramu You expecting to move to Karachi?
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Mar 31, 2015 08:39pm
it would be insane to get involved in Yemen, we have our own problems, do we really need to get involved in Saudi Arabia's contest with Iran too? Its completely ridiculous.
What is the Government saying? they want to fight Iran in Yemen but also import Gas from there too? How stupid is that? The saudis can fight their own fights.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:42pm
if done under transfer of technology then it will be great
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Mar 31, 2015 08:46pm
@Okay no need for any submarine. Investment on improving maritime security will be more appropriate.
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Mar 31, 2015 08:50pm
Build our own subs - that way it will cost less, and will generate employment!
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Mar 31, 2015 09:03pm
@Humza
Defence Budget is separate from development budget. Blame govt for that.
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Mar 31, 2015 09:09pm
Schools not submarines
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Mar 31, 2015 09:17pm
It would be a poor choice if we engage our self in Yemen War. That will give birth to staggering number of issues which might potentially topsy-turvey Pakistan internal situation - a step toward civil war. So stop fighting other nation war. They know better than us.
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Mar 31, 2015 09:35pm
@M.Saeed says "To "get" 8 submarines from China and to "purchase" used submarines from Britain and Germany ?"
.
Spot on - almost as bad as the articles which say China is going to "invest" when they are actually selling.
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Mar 31, 2015 09:36pm
@Ero Pakistanis can live with loadshedding. We can not live without defence. Is this really so hard to understand?
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Mar 31, 2015 09:37pm
Submarines have diesel generator and storage battery.Both can be used for supplying electricity to port citis when submarines are not engaged in war
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Mar 31, 2015 10:00pm
@Tariq, Lahore there is technology transfer built in and joint sub production like J 17.
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Mar 31, 2015 10:00pm
Waste of money buying obsolete subs. Better spend that money on health and education.
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Mar 31, 2015 10:19pm
Pakistan has 8 submarines which are mostly diesel powered. Pakistan desperately needs more submarines and also the nuclear ones if it wants to keep its status as a nuclear power. Other things which Pakistan need are at least one aircraft carrier and couple of long-range bombers.
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Mar 31, 2015 10:31pm
@ZAK it is a matter of prestige , we have have have to have them.
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Mar 31, 2015 10:34pm
Pakistan, please go for aircraft carrier.
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Mar 31, 2015 10:45pm
@idea khan Your comment is late in coming. First stage of bankruptsy is already there ! How to get out of it is the REAL question.
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Mar 31, 2015 10:54pm
Here we are with the Yemen crisis and , now, these submarines, when most of the country is in darkness for most of the time.Here, even the irrationality doe not know its limits!
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Mar 31, 2015 11:29pm
My Chinese father in law and his department of naval architecture were the first men in China to build submarines at Jiao Tong University in Shanghai.
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Mar 31, 2015 11:58pm
@ramu who said Karachi needs feeding???
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Apr 01, 2015 12:55am
@Yogender lodhi
Did you pay for the submarines that Pakistan already has? Pakistan had a submarine in its Fleet before India.
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Apr 01, 2015 01:21am
Good decision to get military hardware from China instead of the "big brother" who always fumbles when it matters most.
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Apr 01, 2015 02:06am
West might have some technological edge over China but Chinese are meeting their huge defence requirements through their own sources, therefore there equipment has to be satisfactory. It is also important that Asian countries should develop their own sources and should cut down their dependence on western countries. This way they will be able to dent western economies also.
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Apr 01, 2015 03:48am
This looks like not a sale deal. Probably China is using Pakistan waters to have a naval base.
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Apr 01, 2015 03:53am
China has 60 of these diesel powered submarines and India is afraid very very afraid
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Apr 01, 2015 04:12am
@Haroon
You looking for a yacht or submarine.
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Apr 01, 2015 04:44am
it is good to know the proposal to buy Submarines is making progress, do ensure there is enough fuel for these new machines. Position of France in the above article is amusing, Pakistan and learn a few lessons from India when it comes to procurement of weapons.
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Apr 01, 2015 04:47am
@woody
China has been into making war toys aggressively only during the last 10 to 12 years. Before that it was fully concentrating on improving its economy.
So, in all probability China might not be having any 'used' subs worth selling. Their old and worn out subs may be a pile of junk, even Pakistan may not like to buy them.
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Apr 01, 2015 05:06am
Don't forget to ask for warranty !!
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Apr 01, 2015 05:09am
If every Pakistani running a corner store in USA contribute the price of a six pack every week towards this purchase we wouldn't have to borrow any money from Chinese.
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Apr 01, 2015 05:16am
Please stay away from this world class JF-17 clunker, why do we still use F-16's for the bombing runs, this JF-17 clunker is a reverse engineered show craft for ceremonial parades, China buys fighter jet engines from Russia, and Russia refused to supply jet engines China for new jets, that can land on an aircraft carrier, which China has ONE used without weaponry or engines, bought from Ukraine. Chinese submarine is an underwater coffin, good for the politicians.
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Apr 01, 2015 05:55am
@ZAK "we must since our neighbor has them."
Monkey see, monkey do.
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Apr 01, 2015 06:03am
@Tariq, Lahore "Build our own subs - that way it will cost less, and will generate employment!"
In the US, I see Pakistanis building subs. In Bay area and in Manhattan, many sub owners are Pakistanis. They make both veggie and steak subs.
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Apr 01, 2015 06:15am
@sharabi : What do you mean? China is a time tested friend of Pakishtan, they were just testing the other friends as the French and British Subs are only costly which will rob Pakishtan of valuable foreign exchange. With China, it is cheap to procure no matter what the quality, it is from a time tested friend.
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Apr 01, 2015 06:58am
@Hurst Absolutely. Every country in the neighborhood is busy going to Mars or improving economies & healthcare........None of the neighbors will go to war with Pakistan.......These submarines will not be used against terrorists...so, why buy them.
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Apr 01, 2015 07:07am
@Zak first time I agree with u, u look after your interest and we ours, no need to justify, happy to stay n war mode
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Apr 01, 2015 07:10am
France refused to supply submarines because of bribery scandal. China will be supplying old (used) submarines but last time deal fell through because did not have enough money even for the down payment.
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Apr 01, 2015 12:06pm
@Zak, you responded with the truth that's why people don't trust you!
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Apr 01, 2015 12:08pm
ZAK, when will you compete for good things India has?
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Apr 01, 2015 04:27pm
@sharabi
Sorry Sir, your information seems incorrect.
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Apr 02, 2015 11:19am
i love you Pakistan army
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Apr 02, 2015 09:40pm
Some of the comments here are so ignorant. PeoPle who have no knowledge about defense technology calling chinese defense equipment "junk". Let me start with JF17, its not as good as the F16 because it was never meant to be For that we are looking at the J10s which the whole world acknowledges is as good if not better. I met a Pakistani F16 pilot and he told me PAF have evaluated the J10s and want them with western avionics. Now chinese subs are not as good as western but calling them junk is just stupid as they are not far behind western technology and quickly catching up. Same is true for aircrafts and their engines, chinese are Aquiring technology by all means and Pakistan would be a beneficiary as we get them on long term soft loans. I am not a big supporter of current Govt but power shortage cant be turned around overnight and some of the projects they have started is a step in the right direction ie Nuclear power plants, coal projects plus progressing with the on going Dams
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Apr 03, 2015 01:17am
@DJ
Forget subs, no one buys Chinese bikes and cars. They have all cheap copies of original products. You must have heard of a lot of S Korean giants. Have you heard of any Chinese? I hope you dun put your navy in that sub. It may save opponent's ammunition and you won't be able to use it when you need it the most.
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