Second hand fighter planes from Jordan !! What happened to the Chinese made fighter planes (JF-17 Thunder or Blunder) inducted earlier ?

How much did it cost? Are these part of a similar gift of $1.5 Billion that we recieved from SA?

If it's a gift or free of cost then ok otherwise get some better product for price

@Bilal Sorry Mr The Government of Pakistan must asked you before they purchased them.Paid or free should not bother your health because you never paid the Income Tax to this government.

I think its time to invest more money on future systems, an area we lack research in. With each of the used planes costing around $3 million, we have just spent a lot. US and its close allies keep an air force, they are moving away from manned planes. These are costly and becoming a thing of past - Advanced drones are the future.

It is a good decision, F16, if these are US made then these are class 1 fighter plan. As far as 2nd hand condition is concern, Jordan is a small country and has no requirement of such type of plan. Also hours run are fairly small.

Pakistan should invest in Research work to produce better aircrafts rather than buying scrap from other countries. God forbid we may hear one day that all the technology in F16 can be countered by a single missile from US.

@Oz can you name any single jet Drone of US army?

Why f16? Its so old now. We should buy new planes now

Why do they always buy f16? There are f-17s , f-20s , f-35s now

@NORI obviously an ignorant layman. Each fighter has a different purpose , these F- 16 can deliver ' any' destructive bomb as well lethal armaments while J- 17 is to take on enemy fighters wherever they are. The Indian Teja fighter has become kaleja. It has failed every single test for the last 20 years. Perhaps PAF could help get it working properly.

@Muhammad i just scratched my head after reading your comment.Let me break it down in few words.Kindly ask someone to connect the dots. F16 affordable,available,familiarity, trained manpower,proven commodity, meets demand. F35 etc, not for sale, unaffordable.

@Mark "Why f16? Its so old now. We should buy new planes now." Two reasons ... USA and their allies won't sell you latest stealth versions and Pakistan doesn't have the money nor credit to purchase the latest/greatest. F-16 is a great plane -- cost effective solution to your current security issue.

Time to invest in indigenously developed defence products. More specific to our needs, and more focused towards our enemies. If we can make the bomb, the rest is peanuts.

@Adil Farooq Good luck with building your own planes. pakistan currently doesnt even produce its own locomotive engines. Start from there!

@Nadeem Pir I like your response.

Sir, Despite stiff economic sanctions the Iranian air force is able to build their own stealth and armed drone through the American drone which was hacked and landed by them However, the Pakistani armed forces are getting biggest chunk from the budget every year and it is high time that the Pakistan aeronautical complex must deliver

What's the use when our Pak army is sleeping whenever countries like USA invade, do a whole operation and leave without them knowing

Why do we comment when none of us are experts in defence or Air Force. Would we like others to comment on our work? Also the sovereignty and defence of our nation is of paramount importance.

@Mark Recommend few names, if you know one :)

This is implicit acknowledgement that JF-17 is inferior even to these third-hand Falcons.

@NORI Have you any aunthentic data to prove J-17 a blunder....See below what one of world's prestegious defence journal syaing about these fighters.................... Janes said : http://www.janes.com/article/31787/pac-announces-start-of-jf-17-block-2-construction ''Western analysts in Islamabad who are familiar with the progress of the JF-17 fighter plane said the PAF/PAC collaboration with CATIC is built primarily on providing developing countries with a cheaper alternative to expensive Western aircraft. Although neither China nor Pakistan have publicly disclosed a price tag, a senior Pakistani government official told IHS Jane's that it could be in the range of around USD25 million per aircraft. A Western defence official based in Islamabad added that this price "could be about half to one-third of the price of a comparable Western fighter". Different countries are in negotiations to buy these birds: http://www.janes.com/article/35705/pakistan-seeks-greater-military-exports-to-bahrain-and-nigeria http://www.janes.com/article/33148/pakistan-saudi-arabia-in-talks-over-al-khalid-mbt-jf-17-deal

wow. So PAF

F 16 Fighting FALCON may be a champion, but our focus should be optimization of JF 17s production, rather than import of F16s from anywhere in Millions of Dollars per bird!

@Bilal no these jets have been bought by Pakistan 2 months ago and there are 13 of them. They will deliver more later.

Do we need fighter jets? Instead of building new schools and eradicating illiteracy and building modern infrastructure, we are wasting our national wealth on these toys. Now that we have atomic bomb, do we need any more warfare?

@Nadeem P Tax evasion and it's culprits should be brought to the courts from the top tier of the society. Bottom tier of people will start paying with out any further impunity. Where rich keep their money in foreign accounts and poor live day to day life, who cares about the taxes.

These are from US stock kept in Jordon to back up Israel and against Iran. They can not be used against anyone except Pakistan's own citizens[Designated terrorists] as they have 'kill switches' that will deactivate their weapon systems automatically should the pilot target 'paint' Israeli jets for acquisition. Israeli jets are provided electronic systems that will automatically override 'jam' target acquisition on these F16's before they can become operational 'lock on' them. Further, Pakistan has had to sign an agreement that they will NOT be used against Bharat. Only Pak pilots will be allowed near them when on 'scramble' or for practice/testing. No Pak engineers or maintenance crew will be allowed near them. They will be under US maintenance and physical control at all time. .

@Zak They can drop only if anyone will allow them to enter the airspace. Who will allow these over 35 year old pieces of over-twisted metal to enter their air space ? Yes, they are good to combat Taleban as they do not have an air force or bombarding your own populations. So good luck to you. But they are definitely better than JF Thunder toy. Tejas is being evaluated against much higher standards in terms of speed, stealth properties, avionics and radars and fly by wire technology. If JF Thunder is a standard, Tejas crossed it long back. No wonder no one is ready to buy JF Thunder even with free fuel. So don't compare Tejas with JF Thunder.

@Karan Please don't compare combustion engines with jet engines.

@Farrukh Mahmood: "...can you name any single jet Drone of US army?" Yes sir: The US has tested F16s that can take off and land without pilots. They have not yet been programed for bombing runs or 'dog fights'. This last will remain in the human domain for a while because any computer program/servomechanisms that can simulate such aerial combat will immediately confront a program that will counter it. Both vulnerable, rather clumsy at present. Further, highly trained pilots, such as Pakistan's, can go off 'book' on intuition and gut feeling that cannot be programed into machines that work on probabilities/iterations thus leaving the programed machines software 'fighter pilot' impotent...so far !

surprised to see people negating themselves in the same line. One side complaining about too much spending by armed forces and at the same time criticising getting used planes at cheaper prices! As Pakistan is managing F-16s already, it has purpose build service and overhaul workshops in place so it make sense to utilise and augment existing F-16 fleet! JF17 has its own squadrons and in process of induction at mass scale way much more than F-16s. F-16 is still in production in US, and many other places with license from US, so its not completely obsolete toy when US still using it! and yeah Indians need not to worry about if its junk we are buying ;)

Wow. Now PAF capture all North and South Wazir.....

F17 is a modified version of Russian MIG 19 which was copied by China when Russia put an embargo on the sale of new planes. There is no comparison between Chinese F17 and US F16. F16 multirole (Lockheed Martin) is top of the line fighter as well bomber which is currently being used by the USAF. look at the plane's strigent capibility requirements.It has achieved legendary record of more than 400,000 combat sorties.

What? Has Pakistan got nothing better left to do than to get second hand F-16s?

@Karan Knowledge is the food of the soul! Check this out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Aeronautical_Complex Also PAF has been maintaining F16-C/Ds for almost 30 years without US support.. and they can very well knock your a** out of the fight in the sky.

It certainly is a good and cost-effective decision. PAF must find more and more such offers so that it could increase the numbers of combat-proven fighter, which will remain an effective aircraft for two more decades to come. PAF is in full command of all the operational and maintenance levels of this jet. There is no induction cost. All we need is finding such jets, for which our pilots, engineers, and technicians need no training. Every induction of a new or used F-16 jet is a real threat to our enemy. Hence, we feel confident and happy about PAF's strategy which is to increase the number of one the finest jets every produced and at the same time investing in indigiously developed high-tech fighter such as JF-17 Thunders. Bravo PAF, you are the only institution in this country which has never seen a decline in its performance. In fact, you have always attained new heights. You are true to your slogan, which in "A Symbol of the Pride for Nation."

I have gone through the comments of some contributors who are matching JF-17 Thunder with F-16s. In fact, both of them must not be compared in anyway. Both the air crafts are meant to serve differently. F-16 lies on the high tech end of the spectrum whereas JF-17 Thunder lies in medium to high tech spectrum. If you see any air force in the world, it is always a combination of high, medium, and near phase-out technology jets. PAF is doing the same thing. It has high-tech combat proven jets in the form of F-16s. F-16s will be used to achieve difficult and important air-to-air and air-to-ground defense and attack missions. JF-17 Thunders are meant to be the workhorse of PAF. Whereas, F-16 will soften up enemy strength and JF-17 Thunder will maintain the air superiority. A large part of war will be fought using JF-17 Thunders. This jet is developed on the lines of F-16s. Though, it is not on par with latest technology F-16 jets that Pakistan has purchased from US, they are very much as capable in certain other areas of performance vis-a-vis F-16s. JF-17 Thunders have actually put Pakistan on the course of developing their own indigenous jets. We are thankful to our great friend China that has helped us develop this technology. Pakistan also has a large number of old but highly useful Mirage jets that are upgraded for those missions that they can effectively handle without risking more expensive and modern F-16s and JF-17 Thunders into danger. PAF's strategy is certainly excellent. PAF pilots are really very capable and they have proven their mettle against much larger, well trained, and well equipped Indian air force in the past. They are the real challenge for our enemy to neutralize if it wants to win the war against Pakistan. PAF has always been a force to reckon with and is appreciated by well-known international aviation experts and professionals for its high standards of training and its glorious history. PAF is certainly a symbol of pride for the nation.

Too much expenses in buying the Air Craft, the Army should start some kind of Compaign for the Public too, only spending the funds in the war materials. we know we have enemy our soldier can handle them.

@Muhammad Did you know the cost of F-20 or F-35 before you said something related to it.

@El Cid You seem to be an expert of disinformation. When we purchase F-16s, our engineers and technicians know where the 'bugs' can be planted. We are aware of these tactics. In fact, Pakistani engineers have not only detected such bugs, they have been able to neutralize them. PAF is not a third-rated, technologically inferior air force. When US supplied F-16s to Pakistan in 1980s, the first thing they did was stripping F-16s of all possible technologies for carrying nuclear weapons. What happened next? Within few months of induction, all these F-16s were modified and enabled to carry nuclear weapons. Despite all protest and objections from US, we enabled them and are still using them successfully. So don't worry about this possibility.

@Inder . What good is the plane without a powerful well tested engine? You talk about Tejas capabilities but the engine in the plane is built by the American company GE with engine model number F404 / F412. Any one can build a frame and few electronics and put them together with a tested engine like GE and call it an Indigenous plane to make the people like you very proud of India's achievemnts. After spending billion of dollars over four decades and with help of the French and the Russian manufacturers, the plane has failed every stringent test. Tejas are piece of crap as compared to American made F16 with legendary record of over 400,000 sorties in the battlefield. You need atleast another 100 years to develop a plane comparable to F16 or the Chinese plane and by that time countires would not need the planes to destroy enemy targets. Go and figure out, is it worth it at the cost of millions of people living in dire poverty.

@Nadeem Pir what a nice reply brother !

Better to invest in nano robots technology, with them you can defeat any military in just couple of seconds, by injecting poison in enemy solider exposed body parts. All these conventional fighters will be useless till 2020.

This is excellent news. Long live Pak Air Force.

@Inder both are LCA category. Difference is J-17 is operational and thundering while Teja is still in test phase. Is failure has prompted India to ask for Russian help in putting it right.

A number of readers are excited by the mention of F-16s. let's be clear it's a great flying machine and is capable of making remarkable maneuvers. However, a fighter plane is nothing without it's electronic warfare capability. If the electronics is weak and is not capable of sharp attacks, an F-16 is just a joy flying machine.

@Bilal Iam sure these used planes are a cost effective way to bolster PAF numbers. India may be the world's largest purchaser of weapons but at least Pakistan is more sensible in its purchases with limited resources. Fortunately, Pakistani military personnel are better trained and made of martial stock so numbers don't matter as much.

What happened to JF-17 Thunder and other jets we are making locally. If we are buying scraps it means the time, money spent on those projects are wasted and these old relics are far better than JF-17 Thunder.

@Karan where did you get this wrong info

May Allah give barkat in it. Congratulations to PAF

@Inder High standards for Tejas???? same as high as u propogated for your nukes u tested just 2-3 weeks earlier than Pak in May 98 and dreamed destruction of our nation day and night till 28th of May 98..The end day of your celebrations.. Its quiet intersting to see the same intentions in your Tejas Vs JF-17 argument..... Good luck for your day dreaming. and Best wishes to all Pakistani Defence Organizations for their efforts to turn these ''dreams'' into nightmares

@Bilal If its ture for the sake of argument that these birds are same gift as $1.5 Billion for SA. so what.......

@Grace Well this martial stock surrendered in not hundred but thousands if you have read your history.

@Muhammad Who will sell them to Pakistan?

@Karan Let's first start with a motorcycle!

@NORI The Thunder/Blunder is so useless that the Chinese won't use it themselves!

@Grace Why did the "martial stock" surrender abjectly in Dacca and let 74,000 soldiers and 16,000 civilians become prisoners of war?

@anwar khushab they surrendered because they were surrounded by 1 million Indian troops and 350 aircraft. But in West Pakistan the Indian army got was surrounded and cut of from food and supplies and 50,000 Indian soldiers would have been made prisoner but Soviet Union via UN forced a ceasefire. And that is why since then India has not dared not annoy Pakistan Mr Anwar Khusab, btw I think you have the same name as a Kashmiri freedom fighter.

@Zak lol look at wikipedia then say everything is not western conspiracy......

F16? what? Aren't these the almost obsolete Ford Explorer 1980 model? Someone seems to have made big commission on this deal.

@asif barkat in a killing machine? Lol!!!!!