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Dishonourable killings

Published Aug 06, 2012 07:30am


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Shafilea Ahmed. -AFP Photo

Every year hordes of people apply for immigration to US, Canada and USA. Many of them end up leaving their countries for greener pastures but often fail to strike a balance between their native culture and the western culture. The result, quite evidently, is disastrous.

The recent trial of the Pakistani-British couple who allegedly murdered their 17-year-old daughter, Shafilea for their so-called notion of honour has taken the entire world by storm. Ifikhar and Farzana Ahmed, parents of the unfortunate teenager, face life in prison for killing their daughter in 2003 – but the grotesque nature of the crime and the absurd reason for committing such a barbaric act is simply beyond imagination.

We all turn to our parents for unconditional love and support and most of us know that no matter what we do our parents will always be there to look out for us. Unfortunately, that was not the case with Shafilea whose own parents suffocated her to death without even thinking twice as if she was an insect which needed to be squashed for a greater cause.

Every year scores of women are killed on the pretext of saving one’s honour, whereas many are enticed to visit their native countries where they are made to marry unknown and old men against their own will, which in many cases turns out be worse than death.

In United Kingdom alone, 25 women were killed in the name of honour, in the past 10 years. Many of them died because of innocuous reasons that fail to hold any significance in civilised societies.

Shafilea was brutally murdered because of her desire for wearing a pair of jeans, wearing nail colour and talking to boys. Zainab, Sahar, and Geeti, who migrated to Canada with their parents from Afghanistan, were killed by their father because they ‘dated men’, were not doing ‘exceptionally well in school’ and wore ‘inappropriate clothes’. Sumaira Nazir was stabbed 18 times before her throat was slit open by her family for loving the wrong man.

Iftikhar and Farzana Ahmed. -AFP Photo

My only question to such parents and family members is why do they move to western countries when they cannot even let their daughters and sisters wear a pair of jeans? What kind of double lives do they want them to lead? Is wearing western clothes, loving a man or not covering one’s head enough for receiving a death sentence?

What is most ironical is that with a large percentage of Asian living in Great Britain, the country does not have a well-formulated law on forced marriage, which remains one of the most important factors behind honour crimes.

The Forced Marriage Protection Order (FMPO) — a law which was introduced in 2008 — can be obtained by anyone who thinks that he/she can be forced to marry someone by their families. However, the order is more of a civil nature and the breach of the same does not have severe consequences which makes it highly nebulous and gives out a dangerous message to people who believe that living by the principles laid by the society is the only honourable way to live.

Although Prime Minister David Cameron has pledged his support for the cause and has reiterated that forced marriages will become a criminal offence, however, it is still unconfirmed how many years the formulation of this law will take and until then how many women will suffer in United Kingdom.

Why are we so obsessed with our false notion of honour? If marrying by choice is a heinous crime then why have all the religions approved of this act? Are parents allowed to abuse and kill their children if they act against their orders or instructions?

No religion or scripture has given parents any right to impose their rules on children and murder them if they disobey their commands. It is time to stop thinking about daughters as mere sheep and cattle who can be manoeuvred according to the will of the shepherd — clearly parents in this case.

We must collectively raise our voice to snub out the evil of honour killing because it affects all of us. Every honour killing is an open question mark to the society that hails such practices and people who propagate such ideologies. Every crime tarnishes our faith and all that our society stands for.

It is time to think and let live before we collapse as a race.


Faiza Mirza
The writer is a Reporter at


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The views expressed by this writer and commenters below do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.

Comments (192) Closed

French connection UK Aug 12, 2012 09:26pm
MAC Aug 06, 2012 01:23pm
Islam is no doubt a great religion but what about Muslim! Where can you find Muslims who are following Islam in its true sense. Considering our children especially girls as if they are our property is prevalent in the Pakistani society which is a Muslim society. The real problem is not Islam but Muslims of today. How many Pakistanis can claim that they understand Islam in real sense. The same applies to Pakistanis who have migrated to West for economic reasons. the problem mentioned in the article is a social problem which is prevalent in many countries but we can not feel happy since this problem is also present in India. We should worry about our home and let other sort our their problems.
Amjad Wyne Aug 06, 2012 01:22pm
Actually, it has little to do with multiculturalism, language or migration to another country. Parents are not supposed to kill their children. Their role is to provide wings, protection, affection and guidance irrespective of the society, culture or the religion that surrounds them. These parents first failed to rise to the expectation of a child and when they realized their shortcoming, the killed the child.
saythetruth Aug 06, 2012 11:43am
Stay close to your faith obey your parents and try not change their mind set. They raised you, the fed you, the covered you, in return show some mercy and respect them and they in return will even love you more. The issue is many Kids in the west simply don't respect their parents and this can leads to family problems. Nobody l cares more for you than your own mother and father. This is unfortunate that in this case this family was totally messed up and the father instead of looking at his own short coming murdered his own child, what a shame. He should have spend more time with his daughter, to educate her, build her her character and so on. He end up sending his kids to public school, don't keep an eye on the kids and when they turn bad take violence to correct them is unacceptable. Parenting is full time job for Muslims or none Muslim. Many American started to do home schooling for their Kids because they are sick and tired of system that produces losers.
@SecularPakista1 Aug 06, 2012 12:31pm
WE are a conflicted soceity trying tobalance our lives in two different worlds. In one, we live in the dark ages with our tribal and fuedal culture on one hand and being being forced on the other by economics and information technology to the modern world ruled by Western idealogy. We commit acts of dis-honour by killing off our children trying to keep them in our culture. The choices our children outside make can be deadly at home. There is no honour in killing your child or anyone for that matter.
Irfan Hussain Aug 06, 2012 12:29pm
and to India as well, if you can keep you family 'honour' intact
Irfan Hussain Aug 06, 2012 12:41pm
You can not stop anyone blaming Muslims – when no Muslim “scholar” come to condemn these barbarian acts. Even I can’t see any condemnation of Taliban slitting throats of innocent citizens up and down the country!
bravemajid Aug 06, 2012 11:46am
We all turn to our parents for unconditional love and support and most of us know that no matter WHAT WE DO our parents will always be there to look out for us.... This "what we do"covers a lot of i simply contradict this statement of respectable writer,you can not do anything. There are some limits,beyond children would find themselves in a dicey situation....i do not justify killings of children but i also do not justify that part of the statement as well...
gangadin Aug 06, 2012 11:57am
Its no longer 'Allegedly Murdered'. The case has been decided, parents have been found guilty and sentenced. Don't try to sugar coat everything. That's what is destroying Pakistani credibility.
Raj Aug 06, 2012 11:47am
We have this problem in India too where there are certain communities who will rather have their offspring killed then honour their choice but one difference I have noticed between how such incidents are looked up between India & Pakistan is that in India the minority who does this act is looked down upon by Media and majority of Intellectual middle class. In fact, Aaamir Khan did an episode on this trying to educate people about so called Honour Killings. I think the only way out is education. I am very appalled to read some of the comments which says that they shouldn't have gone out of their country which in a way is justifying the act had they been living in Pakistan. Such acts should be condemned no matter where it happens in the world. I live in U.K. and have a young daughter and I am trying to best to imbibe in her the best of our culture but at the end of the day , I will give her space to voice out her opinion and her feelings about things around her. It's only when we have healthy dialogue and open discussion can we reach to a solution. May her Soul rest in peace and hope her parents realize what they had done not just because they have gone to Jail...
Tariq Aug 06, 2012 11:48am
Funny thing is arranged marriage is not an Islamic tradition at all. It is a Indian subcontinental tradition. If you ask an Arab if the Pakistani / Indian system of arranged marriages is allowable by sharia, the answer will be a resounding no.
sherry Aug 06, 2012 12:16pm
I think a kid born in America is American and a kid born in Britain is British as simple as that. Because he is raised by the culture around him, he spends 80% of his awake time in school and with friends and in a culture which is inherently foreign so he is more likely to absorb that then anything else. As the kid in his learning days only comes to home to sleep eat and to do homework 80% of his social life lies outside the home which in immigrants case is the foreign culture. I dont think there is anything wrong in being an american muslim or a british muslim why mix cultures with religion?
Vijay Dixit Aug 19, 2012 10:01am
Pakistani mindset is such that its citizens are unable to adjust anywhere in the world except Saudi Arabia & Afghanistan.Better stick to your own country & stew in your Islamic stew.
john Aug 06, 2012 01:25pm
owais you r dumb
AALAM KHAN Aug 06, 2012 12:16pm
When you are in Rome do as the Romans do,.......Living in UK and practicing Saudi norms can not go together.......
MAC Aug 06, 2012 09:40am
U.E. Hayyat Aug 06, 2012 09:40am
Apparently all immigrants need to go through psychological and personality tests as well.
Junaid Aug 06, 2012 09:39am
I am not defending those parents because they did not have a right to kill their daughter no matter what. However, those of you who are parents, especially of daughters, can try to imagine what it feels like when you know your daughter is having sex without marriage at the age of 17 or has a boyfriend that jumps out of the window when parents knock at her door. One doesn't know what to do and unfortunately these parents made a very bad choice, they did not know how to handle the situation and now will have to pay for it. The author has conveniently ignored this aspect of the situation and in fact simplified it into "wearing a pair of jeans". Journalists/writers need to do their due part and have their facts straight before commenting on serious situations like this and not make them look trivial.
Junaid Aug 06, 2012 09:37am
playing with word and hiding the truth. to love a man or date with a man is not a problem. what i think when parents got to know their daughter has slept with one bf and than another bf. even it is normal act in west. u like someone sleep with him or her. later on u come to know he is not a good man. u make another bf then sleep with him. but parents don't look like this. i don't think parents kill their daughter because of love or date with someone. even in Pakistan parents accepts this kind of love, to love only 1.
Concerned Individual Aug 06, 2012 09:31am
This was an act of barbarism without comparision no doubt - but the writer needs to focus more at home (pakistan) where all the issues start from. Even now the ideals followed in Pakistan are adhered to by overseas pakistanis. How many so called honour killings take place in Pakistan? How are parents brain-washed by our society? Islam has got nothing to do with the way some parts of pakistani society behave - we still follow the hindu system - caste-system and women enslavement. Get rid of the hyprocrisy that prevails in pakistan and you will say change in Pakistani globally!!
Faraz Aug 06, 2012 10:46am
It's heinous
Neo Aug 07, 2012 07:10am
Pramod no point justifying that to Owais... he doesn't have the wisdom to understand what you are trying to tell him.. poor soul.
Eddied Aug 06, 2012 12:38pm
The word Islam does not appear in this article, it is not about Islam..
Rajiv Aug 06, 2012 12:34pm
This is where so call "Silent Majority" is the real culprit, while the mullah are working hard to brainwash people to live in middle ages, the moderates have to work hard to arrange counseling sessions to all the immigrants.. why just immigrants, even the countries like India and Pakistan, these meetings and education is necessary.... if the moderates want to be silent, sooner or later they be dead...cause even their kids gonna listen to someone who is willing to come on street and sweat to prove his point, even if its wrong one... I know moderates are afraid of confrontation.... and if they hope that sooner or later things will improve then they are wrong cause things are going downwards at a very high rate.. lets not hate people like these parents, they are not culprits... they are also victims.... blame does not lie with the one who did not see the light, but who was holding the candle and did not share with the ones in dark.... The episode in Satyamev Jayate by Aamir Khan was an exemplary step in this direction, more work needs to be done....
Chaman Aug 06, 2012 12:33pm
When discussions are personalized and comparisons drawn, the focus on the core issue always gets clouded. Intentions may be well placed, the words chosen to express anxiety have to match the intent. Civility by all of us would be beneficial to all of us irrespective of where we all are from (planet earth). The issue raised here is not one of Pakistan or India or any other nation, it is an issue that concerns all of the human race. There are such problems in India as well in one form or the other form caused by ignorance and stale thinking. We all have the collective responsibility to make this world as better and safer place for all of us. I hope there is an effort to comfort and support the surviving daughter. I certainly would like to help. Any suggestions are welcome.
porkchop Aug 06, 2012 01:14pm
Why these people move to the west? (USA, UK and Canada), they not only needs proof of English reading and writing they also needs to undergo psycological/terrorism testing. It is disgusting, the west should ban these stone aged mullahs and deport the the ones who are ready to kill!
porkchop Aug 06, 2012 01:15pm
where? in your dream world???
porkchop Aug 06, 2012 01:11pm
what is your real name?? are you mullah omar is disguise??
porkchop Aug 06, 2012 01:06pm
Stop doing the only thing which you pakis are best at, blaming India! jealousy towards India only push you back further to stone age, fanatics like you are the reason for all these incidents, stop spreading venom and get a life!
R.Danish Aug 06, 2012 08:45am
really disappointing fact !
Ixion Aug 07, 2012 09:14am
If you as a parent don't like certain things in your children, then blame yourself because you took them where they are, raised them and taught them your values. Problem is that such parents will forever continue to rationalize their heinous acts and will have no remorse. My Allah (swt) NEVER, EVER give such parents daughters. Ameen. They don't deserve a scent of fresh air in their homes and flowers in their gardens that the daughters bring.
Raj Aug 06, 2012 01:45pm
My friend asked me once , we have the most amount of religious places in ASIA compared to the rest of the World. We Asians especially South Asians pray a lot more than the whole of world put together, they why are our countries not as developed as West? Why we have more rapes and crimes then these developed countries? Time to ponder...
A. Ahmed Aug 07, 2012 01:04pm
The worst part is...if u ask parents like these (or like those of whom ive seen and met) to justify their actions they say itx Islam. if the child asks, they say we never taught u this, we never allowed this, we never gave u this...these statements come from every south asian parent...including my own. i'm not against them. im just saying that there is literally no verbal communication...even in my own home my parents dont and wont talk about what our daily day is like therefore we r too afraid to share our concerns or desires so i really want to ask every parent reading this simple qs: WHY? why is there no communication? why is there no trust? why is there no concern?
Raj Aug 06, 2012 01:37pm
Well Junaid, Does having sex at the age of 17 without marriage give her parents the right to kill her? I am not Muslim but it's written in your holy book that if you kill one innocent human being then it's like killing the whole humanity. I think not only Muslims but people from all around the world especially South Asia , no matter which religion they belong to are the biggest hypocrites. I say that despite being a Hindu myself. We all take from religion what we like and don't what we don't like. If it's the same holy book that tells you to act in a certain way then the same book asks you to be kind and honest as well. When was the last time we ever did that?
Alesha Aug 07, 2012 09:07am
I think you have just given everyone a good demonstration of a closed mind. BTW having an open mind does not mean you have to loose your identity or give up your religion.
MAC Aug 06, 2012 01:34pm
If your daughter has a boy friend who jumps out of the window ............. This simply shows that you as a parent has failed to teach the values to your daughter. making children is quite simple but growing them up is quite difficult and often parents does not give importance to talk with their children. they teach their children things like obey your parents and so on without parent doing their duty. It is easy to blame children but real problem is with parent who donot realize that they cannot treat their children like in loved Pakistan.
Ahsansalafi Aug 06, 2012 05:58pm
Obedience to parents come next to Allah swt and it is haram to wear pant shirt or to even interact with opposite sexes.There is no love before marriage is it just a lust of sex. And the NIQAB done without garduan permission is invalid.. secondly parents are not allowed to force their daughter to marry someone whom they do not accept but good children always obey their parents. Prophet Muhammad PBUH married to Hazrat Ayesha RA who was just 18 years old and He was 51 years old.But she did not protest , and no 1 protested.
Gerry D'Cunha Aug 07, 2012 10:32am
I will advice you to view Sky channel 587 'Inspiration' and watch 'Muslim journey to hope' and hear the testimoney of muslims converts to christianity.
omer khan shaheen Aug 06, 2012 05:13pm
"When in Rome do as the Romans do". Immigrate with a broad mind or stay home.
Torontonian Desi Aug 06, 2012 05:10pm
Living in Toronto, I sometimes worry about the fact that if I get married and have a daughter here, how tolerant will I be. I'd like to think I'm more open-minded than these "barbarians". I mean wearing jeans & t-shirts and socializing with guys (not talking about dating yet) would be fine with me. After all, I socialized with girls back in school, and my parents were cool with it. I'd even like to think that if the day came when my daughter told me that she loved a guy and wanted to marry him, I would support her in every way possible. Having said that, if she started wearing shorts skirts with sleeveless blouses, hanging out at clubs and bars, and dated multiple guys at the same time, I would be nothing short of gutted. In that scenario, I wont say that I'd kill her, but I really dont know how I'd react. That's why having and raising a daughter here in the west sometimes scares me, which is why I sometimes even try to avoid marriage altogether. I guess I'm living off the approach "If you dont know how you'll react, just dont get involved in the first place". I understand this is a wrong approach, but when I think about the possible ill-effects of such a prospect, it does end up being pretty unnerving. But whatever a person's psyche is, intolerance, ignorance and murderous rage is inexcusable.
sgj Aug 06, 2012 05:41pm
why are women treated as the trustees of a family's honour? Where does honour lie? Like in the Merchant of Venice the question may be, "Tell me where is honour bred/ Or in the heart or in the head?"
Cyrus Howell Aug 06, 2012 07:43am
Now why in the world would this make so many people angry?
@ilatif Aug 06, 2012 07:47am
We should unite against those who want to make their children "live in Pakistan in Warrington". A damning verdict on degenerate and debauched mindset that lives 'here' but actually lives 'there' all the time! "You chose to bring up your family in Warrington, but although you lived in Warrington, your social and cultural attitudes were those of rural Pakistan and it was those you imposed on your children." (Sentencing Shafilea's parents, the judge, Mr Justice Roderick Evans) The judge said Shafilea was a "determined, able and ambitious girl who wanted to live a life which was normal". But the couple wanted their family to "live in Pakistan in Warrington". "What was it that brought you two – her parents, the people who have given her life – to the point of killing her?" He said: "Your problem was that, in what you referred to as your 'community', Shafilea's conduct was bringing shame upon you, and your concern about being shamed in your community was greater than your love for your child." Shame on this depravity, intolerant, blinkered collective mindset with its coupled backwardness. These are tentacles of mediaevalism at its display with all its ugliness, the most disgraceful, dishonourable and outrageous act. Do you know that it is common for hyenas to kill each other's offspring, but even hyenas do not kill their own offspring. There is no redeeming feature at all in this evil-mindedness 'hobby' of injecting 'ideologically motivated Puritanism' in the children who are free to adopt the life they think best for them. When a 'mindset' undergoes such a depravity; a far reaching sweeping condemnatory outburst is a must. 'Quietness' like that of a 'still night' as if nothing has happened makes one part of evil thinking, I will call spade the spade. An open condemnation will at least facilitate one thing; the recognition of enemy within, the evils of exclusion and calling the 'evil as evil' will perhaps avoid another 'Shafilea' like tragedy. Looking the other way is not an option. Just don't keep quiet say no to evil with top of your voice. Say no to evil , you are reading it, just don't turn away.Silence like a lamb in face of evil leads to cooperative faint culpability; say no to 'wicked' and 'malicious' and 'nasty' when you deem this as tentacles of evil at its worst display gulping their own brood.
red Aug 06, 2012 07:50am
"No religion or scripture has given parents any right to impose their rules on children" after they are an adult. But if you are below 18 you should be thrashed if you dont follow your parents advise. in the above case well like you said such parents should not live abroad if they cannot handle the western culture. All of this can be sorted if children are taught to be MODEST. Nowdays modesty is considered backwardness and "uncool". This attitude will have to change.
Dixit Aug 07, 2012 06:24am
Wasn't she 9 years old?
Talat Aug 06, 2012 07:53am
This is not honour to kill daughters and sisters because they want to get married a man of their own choice.It is only ignorance (jahalat) and cruelty (saffaki) that one who is parents can kill their daughter whatever the reason like Arabs before Islam which is still on here and everywhere in the world and parents like Iftikhar and Farzana exist in our universe.
umairnasirorator Aug 06, 2012 08:01am
As the cliche' goes: man and woman are like the two wheels of a car. Without either, the vehicle of our social journey would be in an ever-wobbling state. Our patriarchal society would always wish to treat women as handicapped, second-class citizens. The frighteningly low female literacy rate, their ill-treatment and damnation in the name of social customs and violence against them in the name of religion are clear indications of that. The good-for-nothing men among us think if their women equate them, it's an insult to their 'honor'. "Women are fools", i hear many of them say. They think women are toys to be played with; they are non-gratified, non-satiating, banal puppets who are only meant to be used and discarded. They forget without this particular nature women, there won't be any colors in life. If God has made them the way they are: agile; sentimental;feeling and emotional, that's only because without that happening there won't be any balance in nature. It's their beauty, not their weakness. Value them for that!
Ahmed Waseem Aug 06, 2012 08:03am
As they have been tried, convicted and sentenced the term allegedly is not required in the statement "Pakistani-British couple who allegedly murdered their 17-year-old daughter, " A truly deplorable act
asad Aug 06, 2012 08:05am
Really condemnable
Danish Aug 06, 2012 08:05am
every five fingers are not equal
pramod Aug 07, 2012 05:37am
Indian are not in denial mode. honour killing is there but in most of the cases culprit get punishment and other people do not justify the killing.
Taaruf Hussain Aug 06, 2012 08:10am
If our parents become so barbaric and our house become unsafe for us, where should we go then?
Indian Aug 06, 2012 08:17am
This is a typical " Aryan " phenomenon. In pakistan it may have religious connotations in India there are racist conotations or just out right male chauvinism. Northern Subcontinental males treat their women , be them wives or daughters like commodities and thus these prroblems. All this are part of other problems like dowry, expensive marriages , female foetecide etc. This will not go away till governments take very definitive steps at female empowerment from free female education to reservation in jobs and political space.I think this is not a Islamic problem as even in countries like Bangladesh women are very vocal about their rights. Same is true of West bengal state in India. However, in the Gangetic plane, Indus plane and in Afganistan women are merely objects.
Ali Hamid Aug 06, 2012 08:19am
It is alarming situation as nobody kills his or her own kids. After spending several years in a different culture parents could not adapt in that culture. They kept same mindset as they had in their home country for whole of their lives. Here we have three options, either kid should start obeying their parents or parents let them do what they want and third option is going back to home countries. Many parents migrated to western countries solely for better future of their children and worked day and night. Many of those let their children marry to their own choice without any issue. I think child also needs to take care the wishes of their parents and parents need to be bit flexible so that we can build a healthy, happy, positive minded and prosperous future generations.
Sohaib YAHIA Aug 06, 2012 08:23am
This is what happens when beliefs precedence take over reasoning. Ours is such an unfortunate and confused society which takes solace behind self-suited beliefs in all day to day matters. Result, obviously, is of such brutal and barbaric consequences.
Indian Aug 06, 2012 08:38am
That is why British are right when they do a English test of all migrants. People who cannot handle multiculturalism should stay home.
nitish Aug 06, 2012 08:39am
parent look like some kind of terrorist.....
saythetruth Aug 06, 2012 08:41am
Another silly attempt by writer to paint with same brush the entire immigrants Muslim population in the West. This is a act of one individual against his daughter, the individual lacked basic knowledge of Islam and writer by showing no mercy towards immigrants to the west is also very ignorant person. The individual murdered his daughter and the writer attempted to murdered the efforts of Muslim living the west. For your information majority of the Muslim immigrant living int the west have a very balance approach towards their religion and the west. Most of the Muslim fall in Love with Islam after immigrating to west, the read and understand Quran and try to bring in balance in their life. Crime are committed every where in the world and ignorant Muslim are no exception to rule. The thing that surprise me the most is how fast this blogger jumpped to gun and start blaming Islam and try to tie the acts of ignorant to Islam. Responsible Muslim are alive and very well in the west and just look at the conversation rate in the USA and UK. Look at the beauty of Islam westerners are leaving their religion and the call themselves Muslim and they are proud it.
Mohammad Aug 06, 2012 08:47am
It is true that parents need not to move to Western countries if they cannot leave this mentality behind ..............Stay in Pakistan , Bangladesh or Afghanistan where you can keep your family 'honour' intact.............
MAC Aug 06, 2012 08:49am
The real problem are the parents who go to western countries and never try to live a different life as is the demand of being in a country which is not yours. their life is limited to work, ZEE/PTV etc. and that is end of story. Contrary to parents, children go to school in the foreign country and automatically develop different mentality. Parent never try to understand that they are not in their country and living outside means changing the way of life and change is surely possible without compromising your religion or your personality. This type of killings are happening quite frequently in many European countries. In Italy a daughter was killed by a father with the help of his brother and buried in the home garden. Now the two men are in prison. If those still living just try to understand what they are going to achieve by harming their children, perhaps situation could improve. However, improvement and better life can be achieved by those who want to achieve something but most of the Pakistani I have come across over 30 years outside, does seem to be interested in a change for better.
MAC Aug 06, 2012 08:52am
Donot try to justify this horrendous crime. If 2 of your five fingers are cut/removed, will you be able to live a normal life.
SHERYAAR Aug 06, 2012 08:55am
TKhan Aug 06, 2012 08:57am
Well written article.
Abdul Sami Aug 06, 2012 09:14am
I don't think writer is paintings all Muslims with same brush. You have to accept the fact that majority of killing are happened in Muslim families, let it be from Pakistani, Bangladesh or Afghanistan. Instead of being defensive we have to deal with this horrible issue.
citizen Aug 06, 2012 09:18am
I don't see where the author has blamed Islam... I suggest you read the whole article before commenting.
saythetruth Aug 06, 2012 09:48am
Don't try top put a fast one just look at essence of the article.
Neo Aug 06, 2012 09:50am
for your information the blogger is itself muslim and there's no motive for her to jump of any so called conclusions. she should have gone ahead and bring in front other cases too which had nothing to do with muslim parents but still are valid scenario's highlighted through this blog. what she has narrated is the truth... there are cases wherein muslim parents living in western countries don't want their kids to marry someone outside their faith, or try to imitate the western generations in any manner or even think of doing anything they do... going to even the far extent of killing their kids... if you ask me, i would call such parents hypocrites. they should be shameful for their acts and there's no reason why i would call them even parents... if this is what they have to offer to their kids instead of unconditional love, then i would pray to god to let the kids grow up as orphans.
saleem Aug 06, 2012 10:12am
sorry 2 say but when we eat meal all the five finger become equal either its smaller one or bigger finger..
Gerry D'Cunha Aug 06, 2012 10:23am
This only happens in 'Muslim communities' why do they migrate when they cannot adjust in the civilized society. They should stay in their own country or migrate to Saudia Arabia to adjust in their Islamic cultures/values.
owais Aug 06, 2012 11:40am
So India is exempt? very strange! is this Indian supremism or living in self denial mode? I am really not sure as to why people who have this tendency, read news papers from other countries. They should stay happy in their own world and with their own news papers.
Gerry D'Cunha Aug 06, 2012 10:28am
saythetruth, I will advice you to view Sky channel 587 'Inspiration' and watch 'Muslim journey to hope' and hear the testimoney of muslims converts to christianity.
jalliah Aug 06, 2012 10:29am
its not honour but the truth is its...not forced marriages but pushing someone to deths world...........................
AHA Aug 06, 2012 11:19am
Excellent observation.
sri1 Aug 06, 2012 11:27am
Isn't it funny and surprising that most people here tend to blame those social ills completely on practices predating Islam, maybe from the Indian sub-continent or from pre-muslim Arabs. In my humble opinion, everyone needs to retrospect openly, to comprehend the full facts, instead of keeping anything sacrosanct and beyond reproach. Of course, that may be asking for a tad too much in the land of the pure.
Imran Aug 06, 2012 11:30am
Well, why do you think?
Sheheryar Obaid Aug 06, 2012 12:09pm
Why isnt any guy killed for the same reasons? Lets say for "honor" ? :S
Salamat Ali Raja Aug 06, 2012 12:10pm
Key Muhammad se wafa tu ne to ham tere hein, Yeh jahan chese hey kaya loh-o-qalam tere hein I am totally agree with you dear. Islam is universal and the final testimony, here the religion is complete after about 124K messengers from Allah Subhanohu. Where ever in the world you go and where ever you live, get the guidance from Islam to deal with each and every problem you face. No body in this world can enforce you to do sins. Islam is complete code of life.....
ali Aug 06, 2012 02:08pm
due to naivity and for lust of prosperity, we easily migrates to other countries, but forgets that they have whole new hermeneutics, whole new dynamics especially if migrating to non Islamic state, it is parent's fault that kids go astray,,,, parents should be able to mould with the society and if they really wanna raise them as" true muslims" than a foreign non islamic state aint a good option.
magus Aug 07, 2012 09:05am
Right you are!! Such stonings are held almost every week outside the gates of NewYork, London, Birmingham and Paris. The elders of London have a particularly good aim with their stones
Raj Aug 06, 2012 02:18pm
My point is not whether you are a good parent or not. My point is also not whether there are good children. My point is no matter what , you cannot use violence as a mean to express your frustration.
Manasi Aug 06, 2012 02:21pm
very good. If thing is good.. its Islamic .. if bad... its indian tradition:-)
Alesha Aug 07, 2012 08:56am
Good reply. It is wrong to kill your kids no matter what or where. Honour should not take precedence over life.
Whodunit Aug 06, 2012 02:39pm
We can’t bury our heads in the sand and ignore the glaring fact that religious zealotry among Muslims settling in the West is on the rise. I myself moved to the US in 1998. What I saw happening to many fellow Muslims was that they went through a phase of identity crisis. They needed something familiar to ground them and they latched onto an extreme form of religion. I saw people who otherwise in Pakistan would be wearing western clothes in the US instead started wearing Arabic clothes and grew long beards. To egg them on they were given rock star treatment by other Muslims. As a result many Muslims living in the West are living with a cult mentality where they believe they will be the chosen ones when the Caliphat returns. I can only pity these poor souls.
usama Aug 06, 2012 03:14pm
Although i condemn such not so honorable killings they should be hanged! that right if some one cant handle his children then he shouldn't stay in those countries!
Waqas Shaikh Aug 06, 2012 06:58pm
Every society has its own problem. In third world countries the killing of women by her husband or sibling is given the tied to save their honor. Howvever; there are women being brutally murdered in westeren countries are labeled as serila killer or killer by reason of insanity. I am not defending killing by any means or style. It is a crime and should be punished to the fullest extent of law. However; western media potray that killing only happens in the third world countries. Double standard.
m h kayani Aug 06, 2012 03:33pm
This couple should spend rest of the life in prison, they are NOT worthy of being human. these scum have no place in decent society.
Owais Siddiqui Aug 06, 2012 03:46pm
As Chaman said, there are so many problems each of these countries are engulfed with that playing blame games is just a no brainer. The first step to correction is ACCEPTANCE and not AVOIDANCE or IGNORANCE or ARROGANCE. If you take yourself as exception from a problem which is a part and parcel of your cultural fabric, you are guaranteed to fail when you face it first hand. The first and foremost purpose of bringing these articles to the news paper and letting people blog and converse about it is to educate people so they can start ACCEPTING which leads to correction. But if someone insists on taking unnecessary exemptions, then they should stay with their buddies with their flags raised whether they belong to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or any other country.
Syed Rizvi Aug 06, 2012 03:54pm
Because women understand!
Komal S Aug 06, 2012 03:59pm
Okay let us blame Indian tradition. You guys had 60+ years of independence and officially proclaimed islamic republic. We can see where the country is heading moving away from India. It is exactly attitude like this will take the your country back by 100 years.
Owais Siddiqui Aug 06, 2012 04:00pm
One of the worst epidemic in India (and other neighboring countries) More than 1000 honour killings in India every year'
SSSS Aug 06, 2012 04:08pm
There is no "honour" in killing. Period.
Khalid Aug 06, 2012 04:28pm
I think our "indian" hasn't lived in Britain long enough to make such comment. As Amjad has rightly said, it has nothing to do with multiculturalism. In fact, there is a large number of people in Britain who believe that Multiculturalism is dead and it should be replaced by just being "British". Anyway, I dont see the connection either.
khalid Aug 06, 2012 04:30pm
Well, i believe there should be a law in ALL the countries where these crimes are committed to put people behind bars for life for these crimes. Britain has et an example but how are Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan (and of course India) doing to get rid of this evil.
KKRoberts Aug 06, 2012 04:52pm
This is a 'BIG' crime because it was committed in a western country by immigrant parents.It got big publicity and all over the world Pakistanis are discussing about it.The parents insulted Pakistanis at home and abroad.How many people will discuss about this issue if it was happened in Pakistan? And how many Non Resident Pakistanis will read this news!!.So What one should understand ? Killing a daughter at home country is normal and in a western country is criminal and inhuman and highly shameful.Right ?
Krish Chennai Aug 06, 2012 05:01pm
The question is really, is there a justice system prevalent in the society where this occurs ? In India, the Aarushi Talwar murder case is still on....where the parents of the girl are indicted of murder of their very own daughter. There was the shooting in Delhi of Jessica Lal by the son of a politician, a few years ago, which was picturised into a hit movie "No one killed Jessica" . In a civil society,can the rich with social standing get away by going against the law, Islam / Hinduism / Christianiity or any other so-called "religion" apart ? But it does seem that the comments that say that the author of the article "generalises" isolated incidents, to be endemic of our society in South Asia today, would be correct.
Pkp Aug 06, 2012 05:08pm
Few years ago a Yemeni married his daughter(12 year old) to 23 year old man without his daughter's consent. She dies of bleeding on wedding night but the point is: it was an arranged/forced marriage and it was not condemned. Must be ok in Yemeni culture!
Harish Bansal Aug 06, 2012 06:05pm
I will like to have 3 of those, what you smoke every morning.
Tariq Aug 06, 2012 06:08pm
Basically it is clash of cultures and lack of integration. Unless the parents are of open minded, very often the culture of parents is expected when at home and of the land when outside. It is also true of many of the migrating families from villages who have been stuck in a kind of "time warp", what ever year the parents migrated from their native country they have mentally been stuck in the time frame, whilst the society back home may have progressivly moved on. Also most of the immigrants usually like to live among their own communities and there by further restricting interaction with the host population outside work place. Clearly bringing up a family for conservative Muslim parents in the west it can be quite a challenging task.
Sardar Shah,Khi Aug 06, 2012 07:03pm
Those are not civilized societies. Those societies are worst than even the animals.Almost every western country boast of naturist beaches where to roam around naked and nude is enforced by law (at least in France). In Amsterdam the prostitute markets are part of the city culture where poor women from eastern european states are trafficked and then exploited and abused by being made to stand in shops naked like mannequins to be displayed to the clients roaming outside. To call such socities civilized is extreme insult to humanity.
suom ynona Aug 06, 2012 07:30pm
The concept of honor killing is more cultural and has less to do with any religion. But it is outrageous, nevertheless. Not a day goes by when you don't read about an honor killing in the newspaper. In most of the cases the motive is personal enmity: you want to murder someone, accuse him of having an affair with your female relative and then you kill both of them and claim it was an honor killing. Because the society and culture tolerate honor killing as legitimate the practice continues If only we were more informed about what the Islam says about relations between a man and a woman, we will rid ourselves of this false sense of honor which is due to an obsession with women. In fact the Quran advises a man who doesn't want to divorce his wife even if she is having an affair, to have dialogue with her etc. Humans are emotional creatures, therefore the course that is advised takes into account the man's emotional attachment to his wife who can divorce her in the first place. No one can take the life of another human being whatever the grievance.
mir Aug 06, 2012 07:37pm
there is no need to think about multiculturalism or something else,when we negate the injunctions of islam these kind of cases happen oftenly,this case happened with the iftikhar and his family so we are lambasting.mediocre families move to the europe for the purpose of good future of their siblings but what laters do in a westeranise culture this becomes unbearable.i am sure being a muslim if we adamantly follow our religion then cases like these will happen once in a blue moon where so ever we live.
safdar khan Aug 06, 2012 07:40pm
No need to post this rubbish and nonsense rant of a secular,atheist,non-muslim judge. By the grace of Allah we muslims have our guidance in the shape of Quran and the Sunnah of Allah's Messenger (sallallahu alayhi wasallam). We dont need any lectures of atheists and trinity worshippers.
Khurram Aug 06, 2012 07:42pm
Your anti-islam agenda will not benefit u in the least.
Ahmed bakhtiar Aug 07, 2012 01:03pm
As a Pakistani who was raised in Canada would like to share some experiences of my life.. I came to Canada when I was 2... I was raised here.. I graduated from A PUBLIC SCHOOL. Alhamdulillah now I am becoming an Aalim. I wasnt westernised, my family wasnt either. I come from a very religou family. I have never been forced to marry someone, I have never been forced to follow any Pkaistani customs.. The problem i the when people immigrate to the west, the only purpoe they have is MONEY, family is left behind. My father used to work 8 hours a day..the rest of the time he ued to teach us and give us dars. He used to take me to Majids, he used to take me in Jamat. I was never forced to go., I used to like it. I was given all the luxuries of this world. I have seen everything.... but Alhamdulillah i was and I am still close to my Islam. People here are saying that we shoouldnt be wearing our Islamic dresses here, the Maulvis shouldnt be here... WHY??? why cant we wear our Islamic dresses, why cant our Ulema stay here and preach us... ISLAM DOES NOT ALLOW KILLING.... Why is Islam blamed for all this.. Kids abandon their parents in the WEST because the parents dont care about their families...they ONLY CARE AND WANT MONEY..that is where the GAP comes in... Muslims living in the west should give quiality time to their children and remember.. THIS WORLD IS BECAUSE OF US MUSLIMS, ALLAH HAS CREATED THIS WORLD FOR US AND BECAUSE OF US, THESE NON MUSLIMS ARE GETTING THEIR LUXURIES BECAUSE OF US.. WE R THE UMMATIS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH)..DONT BE ASHAMED TO FOLLOW HIS WAYS IN AMERICA, CANADA, UK AND WHEREEVER IN THE WEST!!
Sardar Shah,Khi Aug 06, 2012 07:49pm
You are completely wrong. Allah has commanded the muslim to obey all rightful orders of the parents and deciding a spouse for their children is completely right and legitimate.Moreover Islamic laws are not understood by sitting with Arabs rather they are learned in the company of qualified ulema ie islamic scholars.
Shoaib Khan Aug 06, 2012 07:53pm
Aalam khan u r RIGHT. These r all Arab based religious and cultural norms.
Julianna Malik Aug 06, 2012 08:01pm
Parents should have told her to find a job and live on her own, or with her many boy-friends. This has nothing to do with Islam and no parent can, unless driven totally insane by such self-humiliation of their daughter, kill her. Now they have to pay for it. If they had been from Judaism than stoning their daughter to death is made mandatory in the Torah. As Muslims under Shariah Law they would be beheaded for murder and their unmarried fornicating daughter given 8o Lashes in public. Since they are British, under British law they have been give 25years imprisonment. Those are the facts. All else is emotion and vanity.
Nishan Antaal Aug 06, 2012 08:08pm
Are you not aware of Heera Mandi in Lahore? What happens there?
Syed Aug 06, 2012 08:35pm
boom !!! there you go !!! well said. and look, still no a single word from clergy over this matter, it's been years of honor killings, not a single word from Mullahs, hey will be burn tyres and bring the country to a hault though if a muslim is killed by a non-muslim.
Syed Aug 06, 2012 08:46pm
You cannot fix this problem because the root cause is the fact that you are trying to portray or implement hardcore islamic stuff in a society which is not based on religion. passport for status, pounds for the luxuries but then most act like they are still in Pakistan. you are forgetting something, your children does not know about your culture when they are born and bread overseas, you have to train them from early age on how to balance their lives, what is right and wrong, how to be moderate, it all starts at home, I can give you tons of examples of parents who did that and they are living perfectly well while still keeping their values. I think most parents require counselling on this matter, it's getting worst with passing time. The chain reaction has started, UK will not tolerate it anymore and they are showing it. Prayers for the girls who have lost their lives in the name of tridition they never understood.
Syed Aug 06, 2012 08:48pm
apologies for typos
Devi Aug 06, 2012 09:16pm
Sorry, which verse of the Quran was it that declared "pant shirt" haraam? Maybe mine has a page missing or something... Don't let modern interpreters or preachers fool you. The Quran only declares modesty in both dress and actions [24:30-31]. It leaves it up to the believer to decide what modest means. One thing that it does say very clearly, however, is that inventions in religion are not allowed [29:68]. CITE. YOUR. SOURCES.
Janjuah Aug 06, 2012 09:20pm
It will continue as a part of human civilisation ... but writing on and criticising such acts are like eye opener for all of us. we have two choices -live here and compromise your values( but work on your values fiirst and do not mix human values with religion as we have human values in this society as priority) or or or leave this society and go back to face a society where we have neither human values nor religious ones...... it is without doubt an act of sickness to kill someone because they were not ready to take the responsibility of their decsion taken in the past of leaving their country to make bunglows to be better among their relatives back home and spend most of the time earning money to fulfill their dreams....if society was a problem then we would not have good examples in this society rergdless which religion they belonged to...............think about it ........ choice is ours
iykhan125 Aug 06, 2012 10:27pm
Very good comment in the end that we need to rethink our own commitment to humanity before we end our own race... My BIGGEST issue is DO NOT MIX AWARENESS/CULTURE/RELIGION !! Look into your own selves and see if you know enough about living as a human being in this day and age. No matter where you are from, you have to follow certain humanitarian rules that are common in the whole world regardless of your culture and religion. All major religions have same basic teachings to be good human beings. It is cultures coupled with politics that confuse people and make them act insane. It is very simple to live as long as we follow basic guidelines by any civilization, culture, and religion.
Afroze Aug 07, 2012 11:04am
Excuse me, Devendra, but let me remind you that honor killings do take place in India as well, again targeting only girls.And of course i won't commit the same mistake of being prejudiced by naming a particular religion.
Sal Aug 07, 2012 11:00am
Its amazing that I have met people in the UK who have been here 25 years and no not one word of english! They also have not gone anywhere but the area they live in, the airport and their home village. So they truely are living as if they are in their home village, but in the UK! They have even brought the dirt with them. You know you are in the ghetto when the roads go from clean to filth. I have met people in the USA and Canada and each one speaks and read english - even my aunt who only has a very basic education. Each keeps their area tidy and are proudly Canadian and Pakistani. The mosques are an integral part of the greater community (not just muslim). Something has gone wrong in the UK.
iykhan125 Aug 06, 2012 11:21pm
Devendra Aug 06, 2012 11:21pm
Can some one in the Musim community explain why when a Muslim boy dates or has a sexual realtionship with a Muslim girl; the Muslim girl's throat is slit or she is suffocated or her favorite uncle or brother takes her out on some pretext and shoots her. She damaged their "Ghairat." But, I have never heard that the boy's parents took him out and shot him or slit his throat. Was he doing some thing good approved by Islam? These hypocrites are worse than maggotts.
Fahad Aug 07, 2012 10:58am
to the writer: there are other ways of promotion and fame too why selling your own religion
U.E. Hayyat Aug 07, 2012 01:24pm
Yes, you are right parents are not supposed to kill their children. But it happens, there has been so much in news about newborn baby girls being buried alive, killing illegitimate offspring (born out of marriage) and sometimes sons who killed their parents for money. The world is a strange place. But unfortunately in this case, it had everything to do with immigration and cultural clash, no other reason at all other than the fact that these parents couldn't adapt themselves to the British culture. Unfortunately, they had to be immigrants from Pakistan and unfortunately it had to be a case of "honor" killing. As much as none of us can simply wrap our heads around something like this, the simple fact that remains is that why do people migrate when they are not ready the accept the big change and this is exactly what was pointed out in this blog.
Muhib Aug 06, 2012 11:46pm
Living in western society means your kids will be westernized. I dont understand why the parents think otherwise when it is sooooooooooo obvioussssssss.
Lahore Aug 07, 2012 12:03am
Rajiv, Thank you for health comments. We love our counterparts in India who want to promote peace and educate us "silent majority". Thank you again. Peace from Lahore
Vancouver Desi Aug 07, 2012 12:55am
Good to see you are discussing the actual root cause and this subject from parents point of view. The value system and love we show to our kids do make a huge impact on their personality building. The best way is to put faith on your kids that they will choose the path which is best for them, when the time comes. Bottom line is that you don't "own" your kids, they are loaned to you from society and you are responsible to make them a good citizen. I have three loving daughters and I am happiest person on this planet.
pradeep Aug 07, 2012 01:29am
if it is so great why Muslims are suffering in whole world ? religion are made by people as per their convenience. You rant about Islam Islam...some other rant about their religion. Religion is fear ....nothing else.
asmoo Aug 07, 2012 01:37am
actions are judge by intentions this is the saying of our prophet [pbuh] frankly speking they migrated for dollers n ponds so wat is the end we all should lern from them. n i think there might be som think biger then mentioned in news cause in pakistan so many suni girls get married with shia boys our wise versa, n girls do were western clothes to n the girls parents dont look religious even ,there is som thing behind the curten
Usman Aug 07, 2012 01:22pm
It's terrible. How can parents kill their own daughter. I heard about this case when i was in England. I am deeply shocked. May Allah bless Shafila with peace and tranquility in her grave.
ROHIT PANDEY Aug 07, 2012 01:45am
People with a killer identity crisis!
1277sachughtai Aug 07, 2012 02:31am
Then Don't go there. It is their nation and that's their culture. Why u are worried.
1277sachughtai Aug 07, 2012 02:34am
Then don't live in that country. They are a secular society, if u don't accept their norms. Don't go. How can give the right to parent s to kill their children. The Holy Prophet did not allow that. People used to burry their daughters alive, that's what muslims are doing now. Do they believe and have faith in the Holy Prophet (PBUH).
1277sachughtai Aug 07, 2012 02:40am
Did women in arab and other muslim countries wear shalwar qameez. How u can mingle dress with religion. Are Turkish muslims or not muslims in your eyes. Be brave to ndertand other cultures.
1277sachughtai Aug 07, 2012 02:41am
what is this "wisdom"
1277sachughtai Aug 07, 2012 02:43am
Agree 100%.
1277sachughtai Aug 07, 2012 02:48am
It is a socio-cultural problem which exists amongst immigrants. I am in US and seeing such scenes everday. Either parents make their children totally rigid or conservative and they end up being different kinds of human or kids get spoiled because majority of immigrants at the time of arrival were totally uneducated or MPMF degree, I mean (middle pass matric fail), so they earned, living comfortably but they didn't learn. America is such a country where "YOU EARN ANd LEARN but majority of muslims wants to make their own "Lilly....Countries" aur NANNAH TALIBAN grows gradually. As soon as this TALIBAN is grown up inside them, then such things happen.
Imran Aug 07, 2012 03:06am
So it is allowed to kill your child if you are not migrated to western country!
malik Aug 07, 2012 03:10am
They think it is being done by Black Water (or RAW and CIA agents).
malik Aug 07, 2012 03:12am
Yea they should move only to Saudi.
malik Aug 07, 2012 03:13am
The father of the girl in that picture does not look ashamed at all. Actually it seems like he is very proud of what he did.
malik Aug 07, 2012 03:15am
Totally agree.
malik Aug 07, 2012 03:17am
What does Islam say about dating and wearing jeans?
hfmerchant Aug 07, 2012 03:18am
when i read this news I felt a bit jolted. I live in UK and the first thing that came to my mind was the same..." this happens here as well!?!" But the fact of the matter is that illiteracy and lack of tolerance is everywhere. Where ever you choose to live if you have tolerance and love, life can become exemplary. I am a bit sad reading many comments here in this forum. I don't believe when in Rome do as Romans do. I think no matter where we choose to live, due to what ever the reason, be it security, job, quality of life,etc, we should live by our principle. Change is inevitable but it does not have to be negative. I think Islam is a faith in which tolerance is given a lot of emphasis. I felt bad for the girl who is no more. I felt bad for the parents who missed out on some great joys in their lives. Yes, Islam is a tolerant religion and as some people put it Muslims are the ones who do not follow the religion properly. But my question to fellow readers is; do you practice your respective religion completely? We all have our learned Maulanas, Priests, Pandits. But is everyone a Priest, a Maulana, a Pandit? To pinpoint that Muslims don't follow their religion is a bit unfair. We all are human and we all make mistakes. Good people and bad people are among all nations, countries, religions and races. But education is a key factor in the lives of people as it dictates their actions and that is regardless of anyone's race, religion and nationality. I hope we all can work together to stop these killings in the name of so-called 'honour'. They are wide spread and are not limited to one nation. God help us.
malik Aug 07, 2012 03:18am
That is a million dollar question.
Zeeshan Shamsi Aug 07, 2012 03:48am
What is honor in murder of any kind, let alone one's own child, baffles my mind. What's worse is that such events in Europe cast a dark shadow on the wonderful contribution of Muslim immigrants to Europe's social and economic fabric. In the UK, the rural derived Pakistani Immigrants tend to represent all Pakistanis in UK or elsewhere, with their tribal customs, and ego driven decisions. Pakistan herself has moved forward 40 years but these people preserve and proclaim a prehistory that exists only a few places perhaps. I hope that such murderous fools, coming from any religion or culture, are given the electric chair, so to put the fear of God in the likes of them in their communities.
jamil Aug 07, 2012 04:36am
The news really distracted me alot. it is very shameful to me, being parents they should try to convince their daughter rather than killing her was not a solution, in my opinion they should be given tough punishment which is described in our society for doing a crime like this. while i was reading one of the Islamic book on i read that Islam do not allow this type of criminal activities with a reference "ankh ka badla ankh and khoon ka badla khoon"
Ata-ur-Rehman Aug 07, 2012 04:58am
The issue is not about living in West or East . It is that parents of sub continent origin have failed miserably to befriend their kids. There behaviour is like a brutal tyrant-full stop. To inculcate religious values in kids mind and heart is no joke. Its a delicate task that must be taken seriously, executed slowly, patiently and with lots of love and affection. In fact Islam is all about love. The same love that our beloved Prophet (pbuh) demonstrated all through his life. There is not a single occassion that he beat his wives or kids. Why the hell we blame west for all our ignorance. Values are not taught upon migration to West but strictly when kids are of a tender age of between 1-5 years old. All through our lives we snub, taunt, degrade in front of others and hardly spend quality time with them. And once they arrive in West it is time to kiss them good bye for than its too late. Good parenting is not for part timers.
illawarrior Aug 07, 2012 05:03am
Perhaps you should read the bible's old testament Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death."
illawarrior Aug 07, 2012 05:11am
Regrettably rape happens in all societies, even in Saudi which has extremely oppressive segregation of genders. Most rape is committed by family members, not strangers. In most western cultures, dating, including sex is a normal part of the teenage years. Immigrants should understand this, when they decide to relocate to other countries.
Ammar Aug 07, 2012 05:13am
I think we need to look at the root cause, this crime came to our attention simply because it was committed in England. There are many such horrific killings that are happening in Pakistan and I am sure in other parts of the world. The fundamental problem is not what we are discussing here ---it is something deeper than that. My aunt, who live in Rawalpindi, had a "servant" who literally (along with her brother) beat her daughter to death for having an "affair" with a boy. This haunts me to this day -- no one was ever arrested.
illawarrior Aug 07, 2012 05:16am
Why would you take a different attitude to a daughter than a son? The situation you describe of a girl wearing short skirts and sleeveless blouses is the normal situation in summer. As for hanging out at pubs and clubs most young people in Canada do this, as do young people in all western nations.
Khurram Aug 07, 2012 05:32am
Mam Please...!! do mention the religious stance also on such type of article plz... as it is not only crime by law, ethics but also by Our religious point of view... As there is no space for forced marriages in Islam not even that if a woman loses interest in her respective man Islam gives her right to demand divorce in absence of a strong reason...
jack Aug 07, 2012 07:32am
For your information the blogger is itself muslim and there's no motive for her to jump of any so called conclusions. she should have gone ahead and bring in front other cases too which had nothing to do with muslim parents but still are valid scenario's highlighted through this blog. I have a website related this link
megan Aug 07, 2012 07:47am
DEPORT them !!!!! if they cant fit in in this country, they should,nt be here
stab Aug 07, 2012 07:49am
Y is it qouted always?? that our religion even dun allow to kill insect, our religion gives us a lesson of peace, our religion is against barbaric acts, can anyone tell that is there any other religion which allows all these things, even the society who dun have any religion they also dun allow all these acts!!!!
ahmed Aug 07, 2012 09:19am
Never for a moment think that the father was a good or a practicing muslim. In his younger life he had a different life style. He followed the so called traditions of disgust and not the religion. His Danish ex-wife Vivi Lone Anderson who left him remarked that Iftikhar Ahmed was an adulterous bigamist who married Shafilea's mother Farzana behind her back, abandoning their three-year-old son. He himself embraced western culture, dated white girls, loved going to discos in tight jeans and preferred to be known as 'Buzzer'. Why would he not expect the same when he practiced the same life. Typical Pakistani mentality where there are varied rules for men compared to women. If he had been a righteous person things would have been different. He and wife were complete Muslim illiterate who gave bad name to the Pakistani community in the UK.
Sach Kehna Hy Aug 07, 2012 09:30am
Killing is not allowed in any religion at all.
Sal Aug 07, 2012 10:49am
All the mosques do in the UK is collect money for fancy carpets and interiors. The imams do little to educate the masses on life in the UK. They do even less community work with youths and children. Madrassa is not community work! Their solution is to donate to mosque and make dua.
MAC Aug 07, 2012 12:01pm
The usual confusion of your mind. Muslim does not mean Islam since Muslim is someone who claim to be a follower of Islam. Read Quran and try to understand and that is what Islam is. Your biased and ignorant attitude is what is prevalent in Western countries i.e. whatever happens in a Muslim country like is representative of Islam. This is simply non-sense. Unfortunately most of the Muslim country population donot even understand what their religion is.
illawarrior Aug 07, 2012 02:16pm
when a man rapes a women ... most religions try to figure out a way to blame the innocent victim ... why is that? ...because most religions were invented by men!!!!
illawarrior Aug 07, 2012 02:29pm
Sadly, the issue is that some Islamic families relocate to the west for financial reasons, without examining western values, and are then faced with an unacceptable culture shock when they arrive. A few years ago I was offered a highly paid employment opportunity in Dubai. So ... i researched, read about it, subscribed to Dubai / UAE expat forums etc and eventually decided that no matter how good the money was, it was insufficient to compensate for loss of freedom and lifestyle. I could not live in a country that frowns upon sex, alcohol, freedoms of single women, western dress codes etc. Muslims looking to migrate to the west, have the same choice. If they disapprove of western values, they have the choice not to come.
Ixion Aug 07, 2012 02:31pm
@saythetruth I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have 2 daughters born and raised in the US. We as a family became better Muslims than what we were in Pakistan. I graduated with a doctorate in virology and throughout got full respect from my non-Muslim colleagues, neighbors and strangers. We left the US for family reasons (a month after 9/11) but a couple of years back, we sent our daughters, in their early twenties, back to the US to study in college .. ALONE and WITHOUT a second thought. I can speak for the US that it has such immense and diverse opportunities, and openly accommodates any and all cultures. The living proof of this is that my daughters have the opportunity to attend an ALL women college without us worrying about their well-being. By choice, they wear head scarves, loose-long shirts and jeans, live in dorms and no one cares. Nonetheless, they are knowledgeable to handle any FAQs that people may have. The faith-based, unbiased foundation that God provided in the US, in the form of US keeps our daughters sailing on calm waters, alhamdulillah. One can find a million reasons/excuses to somehow make Islam the scapegoat here but that would be out of ignorance/mischief .. Islam has nothing to do with what these parents did to their jewel. Heart-rending!
illawarrior Aug 07, 2012 02:36pm
Too often... the concept of culture & religion blur. Just look at Saudi for example. Islam forbids unrelated men & women from being alone together in seclusion, however Saudi added their own extra bits to this, to say thre should be no mixing of genders, and passed this off as religion. The uneducated do not understand Islam and accept what they are told.
Twilight Aug 07, 2012 02:43pm
We don't have to look that far, Faiza ..honor killings, forced marriages and many other in-human practices are happening right under our noses here in Pakistan. Who should take the blame for that? You and I .. we are quick to criticize in newspapers but do not walk our legs to educate people, to eradicate such practices. If you want to bring about a change in our 'culture' then be a part of an NGO; they are many working on these issues.
illawarrior Aug 07, 2012 02:55pm
@ Say the truth ... I agree that most muslims are quite reasonable and would never kill their daughters in the name of false honour... however, the converse must be equally applied ... it seems that no-one else other than muslims do this, therefore westerners tend to correlate one with the other. For some strange reason, muslim society does not seem to attach any honour / dishonour to the behaviour of males ... so.. when a man behaves badly and rapes a woman ... they find a way to make it the woman's fault, because they are not willing to attribut any dishonour to the male where it belongs.
Torontonian Desi Aug 07, 2012 04:24pm
I agree it's normal in the summer, but I refuse to agree that it's normal for a Pakistani girl. Wearing skimpy clothing and hanging out at clubs and bars is not deemed appropriate for a Pakistani girl, even if she is living in the west. And to be honest, I've come across some desi girls here that have been living here for many years, and have never had the desire to dress provocatively or enter a club, even in the summers. As for difference in attitude, it's natural really. Not just for us desis, but even good, hard-working, respectable "white folks " tend to be a bit more protective of their daughters than their sons. It's just a fact that sons always get more leeway than daughters. I saw that back home in Pakistan, and living amongst & working with Canadians, I've seen that here too. Think about it, no father would take too kindly to the idea of his daughter dressing up like a (blank), going to a club and getting drunk & flirted with by a bunch guys. You wouldn't worry too much about this stuff in the case of your son would you. I guess it comes down to personal attitude really. How much leeway you give your kids depends on how open minded you are. I guess if and when the situation actually arises for me, I'll know how I'll react. On a final note, I'd just like to re-iterate that these parents are nothing sort of complete retards for acting excessively and unreasonably belligerent.
Malik Arshed Javed Aug 07, 2012 04:29pm
When the news of the sentencing of Shafilea Ahmed parent was televised on Sky News it used the term “Shafilea parents who come from rural Pakistan. It is now clear perception in the UK media and general public that some parts of Pakistan have these traditions that they kill their children on the name of honour. However unfortunately it applies only to the females and not males part of the family. Today one Asian Radio station in the UK “Qasmat Radio” was discussing this issue where it was highlighted that Shafilea’s father Mr. Iftikhar first married a Danish lady and had a child from this marriage, and abandoned her to marry Ferzana. Did he do an honourable act? All these incidents are bringing shame to our religious values and to the Pakistani nation. Therefore Pakistani media should highlight such incidents within Pakistan and open up a debate on the evils values of our society within Pakistan which we are hiding under the carpet, now it is open on all the world media bringing a challenge to Pakistani civil society to play your part to stop such future incidents.
Masood Hussatn Aug 07, 2012 05:05pm
Killing has never honourable or was it ever?It is indoctrination of certain values which nobodycan go against. let us be honest and frank Islam strictly prohibits certain social activities which are not mind inother cultures or relegion. It is the reason for these dishonourable actionsIt may takelong time but solution is educating people to bring changein our thinking,We have to educate ourselvs,the mulla yhe school teacher the tribal leader,thepanchait choudhary and through them general public at large.
illawarrior Aug 07, 2012 05:30pm
The big issue is .... for the most part .... Islam rejects western lifestyle and standards ... so why do muslims wish to live in western societies whose values they reject????????????? The answer lies in money ... yet Islam makes it very clear that Allah prefers poor people. Why would any devout muslim want to live in, what they see, as" a decadent west"?
Rehana Kanji Aug 07, 2012 06:04pm
well, its really felt sad when i came across to this news. First of all, May her soul rest in eternal peace (Ameen). I was shocked to know that parents killed their child and take it as a pride or honor for themselves because of their so call mentality that freedom of choice is threat to their Muslim identity and it against the teachings of Islam. No religion in world taught to it followers to do such a crime act of killing nor it allows. How can parents do such a act of killing to their own daughter? I think one should understand the difference between culture and religion. do not impose culture over religion and nor religion over culture and there is a need to educate those parents especially who have some sort of stiff thinking about their religion and its beliefs.
Shoaib? Aug 07, 2012 06:31pm
Dude which credibility are you talking about?? Majority of Pakistani are not credible in any walk of life. Yes, we are credible in interfering in other problems, we are credible in supporting terrorist and traitor politician who we are being ruled by, we are credible in intolerance. We are credible in disrespecting our women in our on society by following them in Markets, looking at them like you never saw a women before in your life or irritating them by calling them and messaging them?? Talking about this credibility? Them I regret to call you my fellow Pakistani brother.
Indian Aug 07, 2012 06:50pm
You forgot India
Vancouver Desi Aug 07, 2012 07:39pm
What to wear and where to hangout is a personal preference. Muslim parents wants their kids to be modest and don't get involved with alcohol and other activities considered normal in western societies. There is responsibility on western society as well to provide means to immigrants so that they can merge and become healthy part of society. My way or highway attitude will only complicate the problem
Ahmed Aug 07, 2012 07:40pm
In my openion our religous leders hv to guide muslim leaving in north America both point of view Dein and duniya in place of telling people he zanateee and other are dozeki I hv degree in Islamic study form A Azhar university during my four years in university no one ever told me zanatee a and who gave them the right ffatwa zanatee or dozekee. when some go to them they will give opinion in place of guide the acording to Quran And Sunna . Give the Canda and ur good other wise ue dozeekee.Allah says in Quaran their no compulson in Deian. .
miriam62batul Aug 07, 2012 08:21pm
Well written article, and I very much agree that there should be vehement protests at such barbaric acts.... However, we must understand the following: 1. This murder will remain condemn-able and punishable by law; even if it was committed in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or elsewhere. The law, religion and general society does not condone any such acts. 2. Ethically too, the murder would have been just as ghastly even if it was committed on the eastern soils. 3. Islam, makes education compulsory for all, both men and women. 4. The rights of women in Islam: Rights to inheritance, property, business, annulment of marriage, girls/ woman's consent to marriage, right to vote, right to criticize the ruler, right to become learned scholars and many other rights were THE RIGHTS ; FIRST EVER GIVEN TO WOMEN IN RECORDED HISTORY. 5. If you are to take to court any one other than those parents: It should not be Islam, but THOSE MUSLIMS WHO REFUSE TO LEARN WHAT IS THE CODE OF ISLAM ( that includes many more than such barbaric people) LEADING TO An ERRONEOUS PORTRAYAL as well as those who confidently portray Islam negatively either due to their ignorance or due to malice (again based on ignorance of Islam) !
Masud Aug 07, 2012 08:35pm
Dev, please explain satee.
Tara Aug 07, 2012 08:56pm
Whodunit--I came back to Pakistan simply because I thought Pakistanis in USA were extreme Muslims than the Muslims in Pakistan. And on top of it, I thought they would be a bad influence on my kids. I am still scarred by the memories of backward Pakistanis in America. Pakistanis in Pakistan are much more enlightened and dynamic.
Dr M F Ahmed Aug 07, 2012 09:22pm
Pakistanis in UK are living by the Pakistani/Indian feudal culture.
kazim Aug 07, 2012 09:25pm
so what exactly are you trying to imply? People should not practice religion when in US or your brand of religion??
Dr M F Ahmed Aug 07, 2012 09:26pm
Pakistanis in UK would never allow their son/daughter to bring home a white bride/groom of a different background. So where is the integration all Asians in Uk claim they have achieved in UK society?
Dr M F Ahmed Aug 07, 2012 09:30pm
Mr Safdar, don't live in any western country, and spare yourself a life under a non Islamic constitution law. Kick the US dollar/UK pound, and put your faith where your mouth is and stay in Pakistan/Iran/Saudi Arabia, only with and amongst Muslims, not Westerners.
Faisal Aug 07, 2012 09:36pm
I don't think the writer was "blaming Islam" in any way as some posters are complaining. She is right in saying that we should raise our voices against such crimes and she is right to be appalled at parents who kill their daughters for honor. I however, do disagree with her about the general immigrant population in west being that way. Also the term "multiculturalism" is being used in the wrong context here. Multiculturalism exists in the west because immigrant population promotes their culture via their generations and off springs that's how Canada, US, England are culturally diverse. There is nothing wrong with embedding your cultural roots in your children. That's what parents do. However, going on to kill them if they don't quite follow their cultural norms is extreme and an act of parents who are not thinking right. Its not fair to criticize the immigrant population as a whole, however, since they are the reason why their is multiculturalism in the first place. Secondly I would like to point out that Islam is not a "culture" its a Religion or a Deen. We confuse culture with Islam. Arab nations are culturally completely different from Subcontinent yet follow the same religion. It is important to understand that such an act of killing for honor is not something which is influenced in anyway by the religion Islam but it is influenced by the "culture" of Subcontinent. Similar acts occur in Bangladesh, Pakistan, India etc. but are heavily influenced by cultural misconceptions and self made norms which violate basic human rights and Islam itself. These mindsets are cruel, ignorant, and most of all ignorant. Islam forbids killing of an innocent and designates it one of the most heinous crimes against all humanity as "Gunnah-e-Qabeera". Islam clearly states that killing of one innocent (man or woman) is like killing the entire humanity. Therefore, its important that we don't mix up culture and Islam but all Muslims must understand that Islam always takes precedence over culture and should be the binding law and norm especially when social norms are in a direct conflict with Islam. Islam=Peace. Enough Said.
GirlFiftySeven Aug 07, 2012 09:37pm
Taaruf, you need to get in touch with Child Protective Services, or whatever the equivilant agency is there in Brittain, and tell them what is going on, that you feel unsafe in your own home. Document everything, even the non-physical abuse like Shafelia's father locking the house from outside so no one could get out. Things like that are abuse too. I don't know what sort of agencies are available there in Brittain but in the US there are shelters where women can go to 'disappear' from an abusive spouse or boyfriend. I don't see why, if the circumstances were explained, you couldn't go there for abusive parents as well. Battered women's shelters have resources for the women who go there such as classes that can help you find much needed legal advice, job training but most importantly a safe place to stay. It seems that Shafila's biggest obstacle was her fear for her little sisters. Her friends were helping her, her school was helping her but she kept going back and then would say everything was fine. Ultimately this was her fatal mistake.
Qamar Aug 07, 2012 10:53pm
Do you want to volunteer?
AHMED Aug 07, 2012 11:02pm
Shoaib Aug 08, 2012 12:09pm
I agree that, children in west don't respect their parents. Did you ever wonder why? Because those parents don't give their children the space they need. Its 21century brother, you can't survive with a stagnant mind set which follows in we Muslims for past hundreds of years. Islam is a Dynamic Religion not a static, means its essence (core values) remains same but its form (way of conducting) changes accordingly time to time. Secondly, If parents fed and raise their children then they should not expect that their children will live their life according to what you want. Its their life not yours so let them live like they want. This does not means that you bring them to this world and leave them at their own, teach them how to love, respect, tolerate, our basic and core believe. Thirdly, School are not a bad place. I know such things happen there so does in Pakistan. Parents should teach their children between right and wrong and then they should trust them that they wont indulge in such things. What our parents do. They teaches us between right and wrong but they do not trust us and in the end even if they do not want to choose this way but they end up indulging in bad habits. Fourthly, I don't think this girl brought any shame for that family or Muslims. Wearing a pair of jeans, going out to have fun with friends did not make her a bad character girl. And what if he had a Gora boyfriend?? Its her right to marry whom ever she want. Lastly, If this parents had a son and who would be doing all this and had a Gori girlfriend? would his father do honour killing then??? I suggest that stop blaming others look at ourself also. If their society is indulge in Bad activities so does our Muslim society. Thanks and Allah Hafiz
Ixion Aug 08, 2012 02:27pm
I think it would be informative if Faiza interviewed the victim's parents to get their perspective, first hand, and then publish it here on DAWN.
saythetruth Aug 08, 2012 03:59pm
Many clueless Pakistanis are following west blindly and in the process butcher their religion. Ignorance towards their own religion earns them a degree in Islam bashing. I am glad you are raising your daughters well I am doing the same no problem all of my daughters wear Haijab, good grades all the way, working toward Quran Memorization with Tafseer, no contradiction in their life, no identity crisis. As I said before parenting is full time job you don't take your job seriously you suffer the consequences. In the west you don't get a second chance. Unless the purpose of every Muslim living in the west is to give Dawah to the non Muslims it is not worth living and I know many Muslims who are doing this effort and May Allah help us all.
saythetruth Aug 08, 2012 04:10pm
Watch PEACE TV it will open you eyes . Don't even try to compare how fast Islam is growing without giving a piece of bread in one hand and Bible in the other. Most Christians are taking Islam as their new religion all over the world because they study Quran and only after that they become Muslim. Just look all over the world how many Christian scholars had become Muslim in last decade. Just one example for you goggle Yusuf Estes, Gerry it will be a good start for you, give Islam an unbiased chance I have nothing against Christians but my study shows Islam is the one and only true religion.
saythetruth Aug 08, 2012 04:25pm
Muslim ruled the World for 100's of years, time are bit tough for Muslims at the moment but things are changing. We are headed in the right direction just because last 100's years we suffered but this does not mean that we will not raise again. We deserved humiliation because most of us took religion out of our life's but things are changing fast. For you religion is a fear but for the believers it a hope . The proofs of a creator is that you exist accept him and you life will change for ever. Life is too short the worldly desire are temporary once you are dead everything is taken away from you. Things that you love so much all gone , money gone, kids gone, wife gone, family gone, country gone. What is left would be you and the creator if you have not accepted him just image what will become of you. The choice is your Pradeep pick us English Translation of Quran and give it a shot how many books you have read in you life why not give this holy books a chance. Give it a unbiased try it will open you eyes many non Muslim Phd's have done this now they are scholars of Islam you can safe yourself give it shot you will Love it.
saythetruth Aug 08, 2012 04:34pm
You need to study Islam and check status of Women in Islam. Women have more right's than Men in Islam. If I tell you about women rights my two lines will not convenience you put some effort and pick up a copy of Quran and Read Surah Nisah English translation and you will find the truth. America Nuked Japan should we blame American absolutely not same applies to Muslim. Any Muslim with the basic understanding of Islam would never abuse a Women but actually give all the Love and care that all Women deserve.
Iza Aug 08, 2012 10:37pm
No. That is propaganda on the internet.
Izza Aug 08, 2012 10:49pm
BE- Aug 09, 2012 03:40pm
"I don't believe when in Rome do as Romans do." So you wouldn't mind if - let's say - 15-20 million europeans/americans migrated to Pakistan within 20-30 years? And they shouldn't necessarily believe in "when in Pakistan do as the Pakistanis do"?
syed Aug 09, 2012 11:20pm
its high time to think about women empowerment seriously . we have entered 21 st century and still we are stuck on these mere issues which educated societies have solved decades ago. why should a women be dependent upon a man. why in india, pakistan, bangladesh, an unmarried women or a liberal women considered as a 'dishonour'. we as a society need to come out of this narrow minded approach to religion.