India funded militants in Kashmir to counter ISI, says ex-RAW chief
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In a startling admission, former chief of India's premier intelligence agency Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) Amarjit Singh Dulat said Indian intelligence agencies over the years often paid militants and separatists along with mainstream politicians and political parties in India-held Kashmir to compete for influence with Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).
In an interview with NDTV's high-profile TV anchor Barkha Dutt ahead of the launch of his book, 'Kashmir: The Vajpayee Years', Dulat asked: "So what's wrong? What is there to be so shocked or scandalised by. It's done the world over."
He defended the use of money in India-held Kashmir, saying it was done in the hope of engaging militants and separatists.
"Corrupting someone with money is more ethical and smarter than killing him."
Speaking about his controversial memoir, Dulat divulged that the Indian government had on quite a few occasions paid for air fares, medical treatment and general upkeep of pro-Pakistan separatists like Syed Ali Shah Geelani.
Take a look: ISI cultivated Taliban to counter Indian action against Pakistan: Musharraf
He said India's spies had been in touch with everyone — separatists and militants alike.
Dulat also revealed that he had been in touch with one of India's most wanted terrorists and the leader of Hizbul Mujahideen Syed Salahuddin, who the ex-RAW chief said was ready to leave Pakistan and return to India.
Kashmir has been divided between India and Pakistan since the two countries gained independence in 1947. Both claim the territory in its entirety.
Although several rebel groups have been fighting Indian forces since 1989 for independence or a merger of the territory with Pakistan, street protests have become the principal mode of opposition to Indian rule. Armed encounters between rebels and government forces occur regularly.
Nuclear-armed neighbours India and Pakistan — bitter and sometimes bloody rivals since gaining independence from Britain in 1947 — have long traded accusations about RAW and ISI fomenting trouble in the vulnerable and unstable region.
Examine: RAW instigating terrorism, says army
Read more
On DawnNews
Comments (110) Closed
Jul 04, 2015 12:24pm
More Indian officials need to step up and disclose what the Indian government is doing to subvert peace in the region!
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Jul 04, 2015 12:24pm
I used to feel bad for Indians because I thought they were victims but now I don't. There are words I want to say to Indians but my comment won't be approved
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Jul 04, 2015 12:24pm
Sorry, I meant to say learn from Greece and Turkey.
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Jul 04, 2015 12:26pm
Geelani draws "pension" from Indian Government. Its an open secret.
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Jul 04, 2015 12:26pm
Good point but where is the morality and principles?
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Jul 04, 2015 12:29pm
when money speaks, the truth is silent...
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Jul 04, 2015 12:31pm
this divulged information could very well be a ploy to instill differences between pakistan and pro-pakistani elements in kashmir.
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Jul 04, 2015 12:33pm
Indians ! you still need evidence ?
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Jul 04, 2015 12:35pm
in politics there is no morality and as long as Kashmir issue states the politicians will continue fuelling passions on both sides which will lead to an arms race and subsequently the governments will make huge kick backs on arms purchases. Allow foreign investment and develope Kashmirs economy that is the only solution to this problem.
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Jul 04, 2015 12:36pm
"Corrupting someone with money is more ethical and smarter than killing him."
The above line says it all!
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Jul 04, 2015 12:39pm
More and more I learn of my government non ethical behaviour, I get shocked and disgusted.
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Jul 04, 2015 12:45pm
"Corrupting someone with money is more ethical and smarter than killing him."
I like him.
So the Kashmirs are smarter than the Pakistani intelligence agencies.
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Jul 04, 2015 12:45pm
But they are "Killing" too
deepu 7 minutes ago
"Corrupting someone with money is more ethical and smarter than killing him."
The above line says it all!
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Jul 04, 2015 12:48pm
In this season of truth and revelations - now its time for his Pakistani counter part to spill the beans!
Ordinary people on both sides of the fence are real deserve honesty from their governments.
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Jul 04, 2015 12:50pm
You gotta bend the rules at times ...
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Jul 04, 2015 12:53pm
"So what's wrong? What is there to be so shocked or scandalised by. It's done the world over."
But here difference is that, India is little ahead in expressing itself.
Every weapon should have counter weapon also.else it will only dominate.
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Jul 04, 2015 01:01pm
We should not be surprised by these startling confessions.
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Jul 04, 2015 01:11pm
What India and Pakistan would never understand is Kashmir is a bottomless pit for both countries and Kashmiris exploit the both sides. And politicians and seperatists on both sides make merry out of it. Who is suffering is actually not Kashmiris but people of both countries. The money which should have been spent on povery alleviation, development is being siphoned off in the name of war and intelligence.
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Jul 04, 2015 01:13pm
I think Pak readers have not understood what is stated. The title also misleads. The Indian gov used to fund them as the separatist used to be funded by ISI so used to fund them 'to mute their voice'.
It was not to create disharmony or terrorize anyone. Please re-read the article with neutral thoughts and you will understand.
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Jul 04, 2015 01:20pm
What's is surprising India is doing in her own territory .it is coming in public domain that has a meaning .msg is loud and clear
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Jul 04, 2015 01:33pm
Nothing wrong. You need to compete with pakistani agencies in order to make these pro pakistani separatist remained engaged (in India favour). Its win win situation for both.
I will suggest pakistani to do the same with groups whome they think they are getting support from india or any other country.
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Jul 04, 2015 01:34pm
So much for the "freedom fighters" !!
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Jul 04, 2015 01:34pm
Both countries are killing their own people in the name of Kashmir.
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Jul 04, 2015 01:37pm
So what's wrong? What is there to be so shocked or scandalised by. It's done the world over."
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Jul 04, 2015 01:37pm
In my personal opinion if referendum held in both kashmirs they will opted for independance.Pakistan and India are sacrificing thier economies for kashmiris which has no benefit to us .
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Jul 04, 2015 01:41pm
@PK : bro, yes we need evidence against india's involvement in your territory.
Funding separatists in "Indian side of Kashmir" is neither any conspiracy nor any involvement against pakistan. Infact it means indian agencies are trying to engage these pro pakistan supporters.
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Jul 04, 2015 01:48pm
Good to hear that India is using non violent means to neutralize militants.
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Jul 04, 2015 01:49pm
So the game unfolds
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Jul 04, 2015 01:49pm
@Tamil
Personal ethics is different from that required for running a nation. All nations all over the world does espionage and counter espionage. If not, soon that country will be run over by someone else.
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Jul 04, 2015 01:50pm
While in office, this officers never spoke. After retirement, no one need them. So, they write books. To sell the books ,they add this kind of 'sensationalism'. I find nothing more than that. However, India government should introduce official secrets act to be applicable even after retirement. To me what he talks is simple ' hypocrisy'
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Jul 04, 2015 01:58pm
So what's wrong? What is there to be so shocked or scandalised by. It's done the world over.
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Jul 04, 2015 02:02pm
Although I understand why India does so like 'every other country' still it pains my heart for the innocent victims.
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Jul 04, 2015 02:03pm
Even for an argument if what he said is true,what's is wrong? Militants and extremists can do anything they want , inluding killing,and the government should give them bouquets and garlands only or what? Don't understand the logic.
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Jul 04, 2015 02:13pm
I hope one day Pakistan and india can learn they both believe in democracy, and allow the Kashmiris to use that democracy to determine their own destiny. Neither country is quite mature enough yet to understand the true meaning of democracy. They are still hung on the arguments over partition.
Only with democracy will this problem ever be truly resolved.
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Jul 04, 2015 02:22pm
No more a case , time is changed no more soaps for separatists , no kids glove for armed terrorists ... the start of new era .... hope change in policy and govt end stalemate of 60 years for good or bad ...
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Jul 04, 2015 02:23pm
Nice to know that the end-use of my taxes is getting more diversified and more interesting.
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Jul 04, 2015 02:34pm
Kashmir "leaders" are smart because they are and have been playing both cards to enrich themselves and in order to politically stay relevant. Both, India and Pakistan need to get smarter and start focusing on making peace with no war pact as a starter thus allowing the much delayed social-economic development of their own people to take place. Both should learn from examples of Turkey versus Greece and China versus Taiwan
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Jul 04, 2015 02:37pm
try harder... searching excuses for their misgovernance.
he said money was used to keep them quiet.
stop making mountain out of mole.
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Jul 04, 2015 02:39pm
Pakistan has been pushed so close to the wall that the enemy no longer needs to hide it from the world what it has been doing or will do!
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Jul 04, 2015 02:49pm
Pakistan is giving money to Indian kashmiris and India is giving money to Indian Kashmiris. Why it is wrong on India's part? I am sick of these brainless arguments.
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Jul 04, 2015 02:50pm
Funding militants would generally mean giving funds to either buy guns or for training. Medical bills - I'm not sure that would amount to funding militiants, nor does paying for air fares to New Delhi.
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Jul 04, 2015 02:59pm
Everything is fair in love and war , tit for tat Indian responded with the same technology invented by pak why you all are crying now. Although both are wrong the question now is who stop first before its too late????
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Jul 04, 2015 03:01pm
This is proof enough they fund TTP and other anti-Pakistan outfits.
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Jul 04, 2015 03:03pm
Stop killing Kashmiris!
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Jul 04, 2015 03:18pm
@Abbas Ali Looks like they are. They are getting sympathy from pakistan, money from India. It's time India and Pakistani governments got talking and ended this issue. Maybe it's good that Kashmiris deserve their own nation. They will shoot themselves in the foot that way.
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Jul 04, 2015 03:21pm
If anybody expected that India has been quietly taking it, they are too naive. Indians must be making these recent statements with a policy and perception shifting plan thought out.
Subliminal message from India is loud and clear. They are done playing passive victims. They are rebranding and advertising their place in the region and the world.
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Jul 04, 2015 03:24pm
Thank you for disclosing the facts, Pakistan new this since before. The other day I read US claiming that Pakistan has so far not shared proof of Indian involvement in Pakistan's internal affairs. Well sir here is one of the proof, more will follow soon. Now play your part to bring acceptable peace in the region before it gets out of control. Continued rivalry & stand-off between two nuclear neighbours is very dangerous for peaceful existence in the region.
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Jul 04, 2015 03:28pm
So We will do the same and will say so What ?
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Jul 04, 2015 03:28pm
A childish attempt to creat a rift between Pakistan and Kashmiri leaders. If RAW is headed by such childish and illiterate commander then Pakistan does not have to worry, they will destroy it with in. Go take some pills ans sleep
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Jul 04, 2015 03:31pm
I have always maintained that the Kashmiris want independence from not only India but pakistan also. When will we realise this
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Jul 04, 2015 03:43pm
From the comments, I get a feel like some of those commented think that Indian government patronized terrorists. Such a inference means twisting the statement of Mr.Dulat to suit one's thinking.
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Jul 04, 2015 03:52pm
merry making for kashmiri leaders getting money from everyone. time ripe for common kashmiri to learn lessons.
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Jul 04, 2015 04:05pm
sound like head and tail are both side RAW has.I am not surprised when news come like dawood is Indian agent
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Jul 04, 2015 04:06pm
@Ijaz- Absolutely spot on. India and Pakistan are fighting a loosing war to appease Kashmiris who are neither on Indian or Pakistani side. If given freedom to rule for themselves as a buffer state between the two, the tourism for both countries can flourish and our economies would be better and the money would be well spent on the needy within the countries without irresponsible bulid-up at the border with heavy defense equipment to counter each other. I see the beneficiaries are only military people and not the civilians at any point and would be huge drain on the economy of both.
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Jul 04, 2015 04:18pm
Did he disclosed about the war crimes of India in Kashmir? How they killed thousands of Kashmiris in custody and fake encounters?
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Jul 04, 2015 04:23pm
Why so late?? We should had started it in 90s. Kashmir would had been terror free then
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Jul 04, 2015 04:25pm
All anti Indian forces are on the payroll of the Govt of India. Be it the Kashmiri separatist, naxals or north east rebels. Read chanakya, you will know what India is doing. Only difference is the degree of no
application that differ from Govt to Govt.
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Jul 04, 2015 04:31pm
better to paypeople than kil them..i like that
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Jul 04, 2015 04:32pm
This is no open secret, India has been fomenting terrorism in Pakistan and yet we don`t have the diplomatic tact (like India) to use it to our advantage. Lest, There should be a plan devised to exploit such divulging statements.
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Jul 04, 2015 04:54pm
No, there is nothing wrong but you have accepted that`s all
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Jul 04, 2015 04:56pm
So INDIA tried to protect their own people ? How dare they!
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Jul 04, 2015 04:57pm
Pakistan can do what ever it needs within its borders. Why can't INDIA?
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Jul 04, 2015 05:01pm
This may be another trick of RAW to put doubt on floyalty of freedom fighters. After all Indians have been great planners and manipulateors.
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Jul 04, 2015 05:08pm
How Sallauddin son get a seat in Indian Medical college.Asia Indrabi son in Britain on Indian Passport. How Gilani became Billioners after 1990?
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Jul 04, 2015 05:09pm
To Indians: Why do you then complain and blame Pakistan for everything that happens in India? You guys have been funding terrorists in Pakistan but when the same thing happens to you, you start blaming Pak. govt. Decide how you want to take your country forward. When your politicians and not just Intelligence openly admit to be funding terrorists in Pak, what does that mean? When it is your turn, it is just bending rules and when it is Pakistan's turn then you guys suddenly become innocent victims?
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Jul 04, 2015 05:23pm
Guys read properly....it says india funded pro pakistani militants for medical expenses. What is wrong in that?
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Jul 04, 2015 05:50pm
It's a money making game. The terrorists get money to create terror, state (read politicians) get money to fight terrorism. In this case the separatist gets money from both sides of the border. Yes, Geelani has been getting VIP treatment in Delhi. Everyone knows that.
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Jul 04, 2015 05:51pm
People of enlightened world, read between lines. India paid militants against India to stop or encourage attacks and to become pro India.
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Jul 04, 2015 06:22pm
Ultimately it would be the direct negotiations that would resolve the issue, come what may!
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Jul 04, 2015 06:32pm
For years Kashmiris are listening to calls made by so called separatists, even willing to sacrifice their lives. But the same separatists are corrupt and taking money , other favours from their so called arch enemy, Indian Government. I feel bad for Kashmiris, who have been fooled by these corrupt people over these years.
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Jul 04, 2015 06:33pm
Double our activities in Kashmir and teach India a lesson
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Jul 04, 2015 06:35pm
Proves how loyal these separatists are to their cause.
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Jul 04, 2015 06:36pm
Noting new here, it has been known all the time. A whole bunch of Kashmiris fight on Indian side. These are the Kashmiris in Indian army, in Kashmir police, and the Kashmiri politicians. Then there are the militants who have switched side and fight for India.
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Jul 04, 2015 06:40pm
“The United Nations brokered a cease-fire ( between India and Pakistan ) in 1949, and a five-member commission made up of Argentina, Belgium, Columbia, Czechoslovakia and the United States drew up a resolution calling for a referendum to decide Kashmir's future.”
India agreed.
If India fulfils its promise, there will be peace in the Subcontinent.
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Jul 04, 2015 06:49pm
Regardless of the facts, in my views it is an effort to increase sale of his upcoming book.
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Jul 04, 2015 06:51pm
@Sanjay Guha
I totally agree with you.
For some 50 million Kashmirs more than 1.5 billion people are held hostage in the region. I want our countries should have good relations so that I can visit the places of my ancestors in modern day.
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Jul 04, 2015 07:26pm
@Ravi If those personal ethics are removed then there will not be a nation left to govern.
When we have a military and that is on our side of border, there is no need of funding militants who we know when turn their target on civillians. If any innocent live has been lost because of this nonsense idea of engaging militants through militants in our own border, I give up my being as a proud Indian and have nothing but to be down in shame.
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Jul 04, 2015 07:53pm
Let the Kashmiris do the smart thing and focus on growth and economic development like the rest of Indians. Terrorists have and continue to hurt Pakistan more than anyone else.
So Pakistan Kashmiris and every one should also stop this terrorist nonsense and focus on growth and development.
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Jul 04, 2015 07:53pm
What else you expect from the followers of Ajankya Chanakya?
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Jul 04, 2015 08:09pm
That's a Shame for UNO culprits openly admit their bad deeds!
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Jul 04, 2015 08:17pm
If you can't beat them then join them (or finance them).
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Jul 04, 2015 08:23pm
India has allegedly supported those who are freedom fighters for Pakistan and separatist for India. Does Pakistan consider Geelani a terrorist?
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Jul 04, 2015 08:55pm
One can draw any conclusion from these revelations.These are human related noble acts for all kinds of people,especially Muslims, of J&K.One can look at them as good and bad for India,but every country does them for the benefit of the poor people.In fact Saudi Arabia does them for Muslims of all countries and it is a well known fact.The only difference is that Pakistan and India are not on good relations with each other.
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Jul 04, 2015 09:27pm
To all my Pakistani sentimental friends. Look at this entire saga objectively. What Pakistan has to gain and what INDIA has to loose. The main purpose to is subdue your enemy with out firing a billet. The purpose is to create misunderstanding among the mujahideen and to create political instability. We need to exercise caution. Let us find the facts before jumping to the guns.
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Jul 04, 2015 09:56pm
@deepu Right! Spy agencies of all countries including India, Pakistan, USA, and China corrupt, threaten, blackmail, steal, and entice to get what their governments want. They do it to the best of their abilities. Some have more resources and do a "better " job. USA spies on their ally Germany and vice versa. That is what spy agencies do. What is surprising here?
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Jul 04, 2015 10:39pm
A honorable man like Syed Sahaluddin should be with his people...in his home in Srinagar not Muzaffarabad.
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Jul 04, 2015 10:43pm
Honesty is the best policy. At last Indian public is getting a dose of truth.
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Jul 04, 2015 10:48pm
@Sarah Please do not expect any more flowers in the next ten years. Terrorism will be met with terrorism.
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Jul 04, 2015 10:49pm
What I gather from Mr. Daulat's comments is that India is buying off Kashmiri militants/seperatists instead of killing them. Now what's so wrong with that?
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Jul 04, 2015 10:55pm
People will be confused now that Gilani works for whom? Taking benefits from both sides and meeting his self needs.
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Jul 04, 2015 11:07pm
"Both claim the territory in its entirety"
WRONG
India has proposed several times to convert loc into international border.
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Jul 04, 2015 11:09pm
A very good admission and good for the two countries to behave in a civilized manner - like Germany and France. What do you think?
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Jul 04, 2015 11:11pm
This is general handling of terrorists and separatists which is not wrong because they are engaging them instead of killing them...But it should be good if it is opposite...LOL
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Jul 04, 2015 11:26pm
@Sal whose morality and whose principle?
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Jul 04, 2015 11:28pm
@chodhary I am glad you realize that.
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Jul 04, 2015 11:31pm
Do not you people watch American or English movie?
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Jul 05, 2015 12:09am
@Tamil Why do you get shocked? What is so shocking about it? This is what the intelligence agencies are supposed to do. As an Indian I just want to know from my government that if indulging the separatists and even main stream politicians with the money in Kashmir helped the cause of India or not.
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Jul 05, 2015 12:48am
@Shariq: this mentality that India is your enemy is forcing India to waste her money on such useless people instead of investing on development work.
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Jul 05, 2015 12:55am
@Isa LOL! yeah, we hear ya!
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Jul 05, 2015 01:14am
He is right I support his comments but be aware If Pakistan reciprocate then don't start hue and cry !!
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Jul 05, 2015 01:28am
The Hurriyat leaders have been kept like prince and kings with handsome perks and VVIP security. But these revelations are some kind of trap for Pakistan. Something is changing which our leadership not able to figure out.
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Jul 05, 2015 01:33am
All is fair in love and war!
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Jul 05, 2015 01:41am
@jagdeep singh Are you kidding me!!??
We Kashmiris have paid the heaviest price for this border-border game.
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Jul 05, 2015 02:39am
people are used to of living in the tense atmosphere , because politicians are playing with their efforts for independent Kashmir. Indians used to play every trick to maintained his control over Kashmir because same our politicians are doing here with their people.
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Jul 05, 2015 03:48am
We used to bribe militants and separatists to keep peace and stay with India. This is called engaging with corruption. India never sponsored terrorism. India didn't paid money to kill anyone. Please read article carefully.
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Jul 05, 2015 03:49am
@Sarah please read article carefully. Money was given to keep peace and stability.
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Jul 05, 2015 05:18am
@Ijaz india is not sacrificing its economy over Kashmir. Kashmir is strategically important for India. Whatever India is spending there is an investment to keep its interests intact.
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Jul 05, 2015 05:58am
When he says everyone is spying on everyone else, that is absolutely true.
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Jul 05, 2015 06:20am
@jagdeep singh you are right.
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Jul 05, 2015 11:37am
@PK Indians do not need evidence, we Pakistanis need electricity, water and basic amenities in life, can we please focus on that ? for heaven's sake!!!
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