Mansehra police register case against woman claiming to be 'colonel's wife' in viral video
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Mansehra police on Thursday registered a case against a woman whose video went viral on social media, in which she can be seen harassing officials and proclaiming herself to be the "wife of a colonel" after they refused to let her vehicle pass through a blockade on the Hazara Motorway.
According to a statement by Mansehra police, the woman in question threatened, insulted, misbehaved and interfered with police officials performing their "lawful duty" on May 20.
"In this regard, an FIR has been lodged against the woman at the Mansehra City police station."
The statement added that the police officials were employed on a contract for CPEC security and showed "extreme restraint, composure and calm despite being insulted".
The statement also clarified that no official has been suspended nor has a case been registered against them. "It is further clarified that no one is above the law, and in this case too law will take its due course," the statement concluded.
According to the FIR, a copy of which is available with Dawn.com, the case has been registered on the complaint of Assistant Sub Inspector Aurangzeb.
The complaint states that the official was on duty at the Hazara Motorway, of which a section is currently under construction. "Despite this, some vehicles pass through which causes problems. It was my duty to stop the cars and prevent them from going forward," the FIR quoted the official as saying.
The complainant added that when the woman was stopped, she resorted to verbally abusing and threatening the officials, forcibly removed the obstacles set up, and forced her way through the blockade.
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Comments (135) Closed
May 22, 2020 01:01am
Thank you for the FIR registration. Let us see what punishment our courts can award to this woman who is literally intoxicated of power and abused uniformed person. Appreciated the way police exercised restrained.
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May 22, 2020 01:08am
she should be in jail and give lesson to persons who want to beyond the law
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May 22, 2020 01:13am
The whole Pakistan is free to criticise a wrongdoer, even if associated with the army.
Nobody in India is free to criticise RSS or Modi. You do, you end up in jail.
Pakistan zindabaad.
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May 22, 2020 01:17am
Let's bring her to justice. Well, this has been the slogan of the PTI forever. Let's prove it that no one is above the law. There should be a sever fine and jail, and the case should be made an example for everyone, civilians and uniforms, that no one is above the law.
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May 22, 2020 01:34am
Hope she is brought to justice...
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May 22, 2020 01:34am
Does not appear from the video that the road was closed for traffic.
There were no clear signs posted.
There was many cars lined up.
It appears that the Police was being selective and discretionary.
Of course the Colonels wife deserves respect just like any other citizen, and if randomly stopped on the road. Ask for license and registration. Give a citation or issue a ticket for violations. People get killed in the US for not obeying traffic rules. I guess the lady was lucky.
Less talk is better.
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May 22, 2020 01:41am
Even if she is wife of colonel, why would it matter for anything? Are they above the law? In US, police can arrest even the head of the army- General Patraus, the most successful US General’s case is a classic example!
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May 22, 2020 01:51am
Want to see exemplary punishment !!!
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May 22, 2020 01:55am
She should be given exemplary punishment, preferably maximum imprisonment as a deterrent for others.
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May 22, 2020 01:55am
I pity the husband of this lady She is a disgrace
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May 22, 2020 01:56am
They should also add a charge of attempted murder as she first ordered her driver, and when he refused, drove the car herself and tried to run over the officer. For sake of justice she should be arrested and put in handcuff by Assistant Sub Inspector Aurangzeb.who she assaulted
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May 22, 2020 01:58am
The woman has put her entire family to shame, hope they knock some sense into this one.
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May 22, 2020 02:06am
If she has done this in US, this is what would have happened to her. First an officer would have told her to stop yelling. Then he called backup. Then she would have been told to turn around and put her hands on the car. Or she was told to get down on the ground right away while all officers pull their guns. If she continued to resist they throwed her down force her hands on the back and cuffed her. Filed cases, 1, disobeying an officer of law 2, resisting arrest, 3, disregarding security barriers, 4, endangering the lives of workers on the sight. She would have end up paying fine and serving jail time. This uncivilized behavior of entitlement must be punished, to curb the culture of entitlement. The police officer wearing a flag on his shoulder represent the state. She committed a crime against the state. In any district court she will use influence, I think the high court or the supreme court take a suomoto notice just to set a precedence, sent her to jail for 6 months.
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May 22, 2020 02:10am
Great job Mansehra Police! Put her in jail for life. None should be above law. She is crook!
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May 22, 2020 02:10am
The reason she decided to take the closed route at first place is because it is often opened for the few selected motorists.
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May 22, 2020 02:16am
Who was she? Why she is not named here? Where did she get those guts to insult a police officer?
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May 22, 2020 02:22am
Everyone knows who it is. It’s all over social media.
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May 22, 2020 02:41am
This reflects mindset of powerful...
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May 22, 2020 03:22am
No surprise here. This woman represents the so-called elites of our country who consider themselves above the laws of the country. This incident is not the first of its kind and certainly not the last. It is the product of a feudal mindset which has been on display in this country of ours for the last Seventy two years.
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May 22, 2020 03:25am
My gosh only her husband is just a colonel otherwise it would have greater consequences. Is she is above the law dictating the rule? All army officers don't serve for free they get very rich pay for there services. I admire the professionalism of the police who have stand firm.
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May 22, 2020 03:30am
Kudos to the policemen for standing up for the rule of law.
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May 22, 2020 03:47am
What is point/achievement in just registering the FIR? Regardless being wife of a colonel or not, she must has been arrested by now. It is clear she is yet to be arrested, soon she will get pre-arrest bail, and once again everything get back to normal. This is called system failure.
Two weeks ago, Victoria police ask a young man to surrender for arrest, he refused and walk few steps towards police officers, he was shot in the legs 5 times, got arrested and taken into hospital in custody. Law must be implemented regardless who is who. I got traffic fine $165 by driving over the grass strip for 5 meters on side of the road, which I paid. This is law and that’s why some countries/nations progress/develop and other countries/nations just beg to live/survive.
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May 22, 2020 03:54am
Do not bring army into this, as institution has nothing to do with this individual guilt.
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May 22, 2020 03:55am
jail and fine her.
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May 22, 2020 03:56am
What's the result ?...
what's name of that colonel who think he and his family is above law ?...
She was disdainfully treating the security as inferior...
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May 22, 2020 04:12am
She acted like a hand grenade waiting to explode whose pin was about to be taken off——-so much arrogance and authority attributed to the status of her husband and so much defiance of simple obligation to lawful authority.
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May 22, 2020 04:17am
FIR means ‘First Information Report’ for common people. For rich & well connected it mean “ Free intelligent rogue”. Nothing will happen
FIR will be quashed or trashed, on confidential advise of SSP. It’s OK she’s a woman, she may be in hurry, or sick.
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May 22, 2020 04:22am
If no one is above the law, how come that lady crossed the barriers? A common man or women would have been arrestes then and there and taken to task. What kind of a restraint was that?
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May 22, 2020 04:27am
Big wig ladies realy behave this ways. They are only few humble one.
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May 22, 2020 04:29am
Question should also be asked as to why the motorway was blocked for so many hours. The police person just cannot block any road for so long without any reason.
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May 22, 2020 04:35am
Good news and good job by our police by registering FIR against her.
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May 22, 2020 04:38am
Very unfortunate incident, inciting the wife of a Pak army colonel to act so unlawfully. For sure, we are not living in a colonial era, where such things were taken as a normal behavior by those who matter. Let law of the land take its course.
Notwithstanding, this ugly incidence, the question remains that even if road is being under construction, which we have done here multiple times, it is a normal practice, not to stop vehicular traffic from proceeding & accordingly such construction requires sign posted & area of construction is cordoned off by concrete barriers or delineated water filled plastic drums/barriers with posting a flagman at each end of the ongoing construction, guiding the traffic to move slowly on such location by creating a bypass. Under no circumstances, the road or part of it under construction is completely closed to traffic.
From the news narrative it seems that no such alternative was made available to ongoing traffic being an irritant caused this incident.
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May 22, 2020 04:55am
That’s the difference between living in a civilised society and her case not. The problem is it’s something Pakistanis are used to it’s not what you know it’s who you know and your status. Here in the uk even the Queen or Prime ministers daughter wouldn’t behave like this woman as they would face consequences.
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May 22, 2020 04:55am
Good job. Even if if she spends a week in jail, she would never call herself an army wife.
Deserves it
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May 22, 2020 04:56am
Where is the punishment? That need to be made public within days. --- has car been impounded? ---- everything was on media therefore no investigation required --- hese measures should be taken ASAP and announced/shown on media
Nothing less than above is acceptable
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May 22, 2020 05:00am
Such a sad nation and still living under British empire who ruled them. Shame on all these people and who supports them!
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May 22, 2020 05:06am
I would love to see if Pak Army and their families being treated equal to their civilian counterparts.
It's unbelievable the woman could even think of touching a uniformed member of the executive force.
Poor army but this attitude is common in them.
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May 22, 2020 05:07am
I solute the courage and professionalism of KPK police on duty.
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May 22, 2020 05:09am
Excellent job, no one should be above the law.
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May 22, 2020 05:09am
Very poor
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May 22, 2020 05:17am
Colonel's wife mentioned in FIR?
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May 22, 2020 05:22am
is she really a colonel wife?
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May 22, 2020 05:23am
For the sake of equality and justice hope she gets punished.
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May 22, 2020 05:31am
Do the police treat others like this.The fact is that police is also part of this elite mafia. We all know that if common people or civilians show the same behaviours they would be shot dead or punished at the spot.police open fire on unarmed poors like model town,sahiwal etc.but against powerfull they make videos to prove their innocence before the court to save their jobs.
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May 22, 2020 05:36am
If this woman says she is Colnel's biwi, so what? The Mansehrsa police was doing their job.I am for the Police.
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May 22, 2020 05:51am
Will justice prevail? or are these cosmetic measures?
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May 22, 2020 06:27am
Military is superior to every other institution in Pakistan
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May 22, 2020 06:32am
If she was a colonel’s wife then how can any common person even dare to stop her.
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May 22, 2020 06:40am
She is not above the law and she must be prosecuted.
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May 22, 2020 06:46am
The behavior of this lady is shameful. I pity the husband of this women.
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May 22, 2020 06:51am
Felt sorry for the Col Sahib of Pakistan's brave and ever green Armed Forces our hearts beats with the armed forces of this land of the pure Pakistan.
Inquiry will mostly like cause some red remarks for the Army officer by JAG in Pakistan Military which is very strict like no other organization in Pakistan, all due to a uneducated wife who was degrading a security officer very shameful act by a morally flawed woman.
Pakistan Armed Forces Paindabad!
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May 22, 2020 06:52am
She should be punished but at the same time police person should be protected.
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May 22, 2020 06:59am
She should be punish severely to send Message throught Pakistan that no one is Above the law.
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May 22, 2020 07:07am
I am happy to read FIR has been lodge against that women. In fact she should be arrested at the spot insulting Police Officer/ Police personnel at the place of incident.
Let the law barker should know that now it will not be tolerated regardless who you are. You brake the law you are going to pay for it.
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May 22, 2020 07:15am
Pakistanis and their media can freely speak against misbehaviour incident involving army officers wife.
Nobody in India dares report or name killers of Muslim minority in Delhi or across India.
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May 22, 2020 07:32am
kudos to these brave police men.......this women has brought harm and disgrace to our military.......they should have arrested, towed away her car or whatever as law permits......police needs to stand up against the elites firmly.
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May 22, 2020 07:32am
Mansehra police social Media is watching you. Make sure justice prevails and she gets punished!!!
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May 22, 2020 07:36am
@Nh, did you even read the article?
First read, its all there, its an authority decision as a basic part of growing up in a society, obey the police as they have a job to perform for a reason, or face consequences; your choice, complain in writing to the minister or the local council but be civil and not ignorant.
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May 22, 2020 07:40am
@Amjad Durrani Engineer USA, you don't seem to understand the basic law, obey the police, they are enforcing the law, in case there is danger, sometimes unplanned.
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May 22, 2020 07:47am
I with full confidence do salute to the kpk police personnel for their polite behavior despite of stimulation from this so called elite lady having no respect for the rule of law.
I have watched whole video and at every second moment I thought that the police may lose their cool but fortunately it didn't happened. However, one thing I suspect is that she might be suffering from some sort of mental disorder
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May 22, 2020 07:52am
Not only a case be registered against her but an examplary punishment must be meted out her
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May 22, 2020 08:00am
Such behavior is typical of South Asia, be it here, India, Bangladesh or Sri Lanka. "Law should apply to others, not to me". Such citizen should be shame n made infamous.
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May 22, 2020 08:07am
@Thomas, Hundreds of articles are published every day in India criticizing Modi. Please show me the proof on how many of them were arrested.
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May 22, 2020 08:08am
The issue is that all citizens should be treated as equals by the law. In this case the woman was treated with deference because she claimed to be an Army officer's wife. Would a Suzuki pick-up driver from a minority have been treated as courteously?
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May 22, 2020 08:08am
What an utter disgraceful woman! Pity her mindset and arrogance! Think the police fellas did well to hold their nerves.
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May 22, 2020 08:11am
@Thomas, Better democracy prevails in Pakistan!
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May 22, 2020 08:32am
@Amjad Durrani Engineer USA: The question is not that. If road is closed for whatever reason-be it due to construction or coronavirus lockdown, if one citizen claimed to be above others, and that law should not apply to her, that is the problem. As can be seen from the video, she doesn't have any medical emergency. It is purely high headedness. I am surprised why only case is filed. She should have been arrested under "obstruction of police/government servants from performing their duty".
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May 22, 2020 08:34am
@Thomas, Leave India alone. Look Pakistan. Should not she be arrested by now??
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May 22, 2020 08:47am
@Thomas, Many individual are being criticize and been punished respective of party, association, religion. If you keep blind your eyes keep it. RSS as a organization is most respected in India, we love them. .
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May 22, 2020 08:52am
@Thomas, Pakistan Zindabad
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May 22, 2020 09:02am
@Amjad Durrani Engineer USA, Dear; your account of situation is about road condition and it’s closure ! But issue is : “ wife of Col. What has to do with this bravado - influence police officer : bragging: she should have arrested and hand cuff : She can make video and post about road closures and police high handed ness but threaten that she is wife of Col. So what - she expect Guard of honor; all police force need to salut her ! She should be punished for her behavior! And road authority need to explain why the road is closed without any sign !
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May 22, 2020 09:13am
@Thomas, correct!!!
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May 22, 2020 09:20am
@SDA,
Mr. SDA,
" Great job Mansehra Police! Put her in jail for life. None should be above law. She is crook! "
She is not only crook, also uncivilised and belongs to backward-class.
It makes no difference between wife of a colonel and wife of a general.
Are these uniform officials and their family members above the law?
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May 22, 2020 09:20am
We must salute the police official showing utmost restraint despite provocation and threats by the so called wife of the colonel.she must be given an exemplary punishment so that nobody could dare to question law of the land.
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May 22, 2020 09:32am
@M Ali,
Mr. M Ali,
You are 100% right.
I can remember two incidents which I read in the newspapers.
During the era of dictator General Ayub a commisioned officer was uncivilised because of the attitude. Perhaps he was colonel.
During the era of dictator General Pervez Musharraf a major general was uncivilised because of the attitude.
Both incidents were related to the police officials. First was in Rawalpindi - Second was in Lahore.
What was the result, nobody knows.
Such elites have mean mentality and are uncivilised and arrogant.
Does Pakistan need such officials?
No.
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May 22, 2020 09:39am
@kamal chowkidar, "Pay attention to Pakistan. Indians will take care of India."
But look who's attention is here instead of on India?
Do what you preach!
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May 22, 2020 09:41am
@Sajjad,
Mr. Sajjad,
" Who was she? Why she is not named here? Where did she get those guts to insult a police officer? "
Answer to your question:
Elite class with arrogance and inhumanity.
Wait for the action by General Bajwa.
By the way police officials also belong to elite-class.
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May 22, 2020 09:42am
@@Humanity ,
Touchy lot find truth hard to swallow!
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May 22, 2020 09:45am
@Shoib Sheikh1,
Mr. Shoib Sheikh 1,
" Military is superior to every other institution in Pakistan. "
Unfortunately, your comment is related to a bitter truth.
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May 22, 2020 09:48am
Woman need help not FIR.
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May 22, 2020 09:53am
@Shazia,
Ms. Shazia,
" Will justice prevail? or are these cosmetic measures? "
Woh!
You have put a very very bitter question to the officials of Pakistan.
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May 22, 2020 09:59am
@GM BUGHIO, None
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May 22, 2020 10:07am
Justice for all, but due.
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May 22, 2020 10:17am
Good! Teach her a lesson that NO ONE is above the law. You must face justice, nobody cares what your status is.
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May 22, 2020 10:26am
First of all, I’m glad this lady will face the music for her actions, I don’t care if she’s a wife of a Colonel, but think about this, if it was a wife of a MNA, a Senator, a big government official, would the police be allowed to file a case?
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May 22, 2020 10:29am
@Thomas, Maybe, but in Pakistan, we still can’t put a corrupt leader in jail, the rich and the powerful are still untouchable, just look at what’s going on with the sugar and wheat fiasco, even after the forensic report, the untouchables are still untouched. Pakistan Zindabad.
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May 22, 2020 10:37am
She should have been forseable stopped. What of she was a terrorist. Law should be the same.for all. Why were keys of the car not taken. This is poor policing
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May 22, 2020 10:39am
@Hamid shafiq, Keep dreaming during the day.
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May 22, 2020 10:39am
Seems like a set up with a camera ready...probably due to some incident on previous day when she was also stoped..thus inciting and challenging the lady...a road block specifically to teach her a lesson?
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May 22, 2020 10:39am
@Ghulam Shabir Samoon, Are you ok?
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May 22, 2020 10:40am
@Khan, What kind of help??
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May 22, 2020 10:43am
@Akraam, I bet nothing will happen.
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May 22, 2020 10:49am
Make a good example out of her so we as a nation get a stern lesson in a bid to follow traffic rules, where we're worst.
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May 22, 2020 10:51am
The elite does so in Pakistan because violation of law comes out without cost.
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May 22, 2020 11:09am
@THE MORNING STAR. MD., She doesn't derserve any courtesy or respecy and specially if she is wife of some power and abusive military guy.
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May 22, 2020 11:29am
It is a mind set problem with them witnessed in media by openly challenging and threatening the executive in the past. Nothing will happen rest assured it will be hushed up.
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May 22, 2020 11:56am
@Dr Ahmad - Melbourne , bravo
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May 22, 2020 12:34pm
All women should be respected in decent manners regardless of their backgrounds and identity. From this particular incident, all IG police should learn to designate lady police officers on road blocks for search warrant and warrant.of arrest if needed to control female trouble makers and arrest them on spot if needed. If I am a magistrate or a Judge, even this trouble maker pleads guilty and shows remorse to her shameful acts, I would have decided a punishment of a year jail term and a fine of Rs500,000 during the sentencing.
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May 22, 2020 12:36pm
Meanwhile IK should I ask colonel for money or not ? Will he facilates me a loan?
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May 22, 2020 12:45pm
She is not a wife on any military personnel but what I learned that she is a wife of an advocate.
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May 22, 2020 12:55pm
Shame on her, and shame on the administration that can stop traffic without explanation.
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May 22, 2020 01:02pm
@GM BUGHIO, keep track of the whereabouts of the police officers who did their job per law of the land
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May 22, 2020 01:19pm
She should've been arrested then and there. I doubt they'll be able to find her.
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May 22, 2020 06:17pm
She should have been arrested on the spot. I watched the video.
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May 22, 2020 08:42pm
Amazed at the frenzy of forensic analysis across the entire nation around this case just because it was a woman and all are jumping in eagerly at the opportunity to lash out vindictively! These type of clashes with authorities and much worse happen everyday on the roads but noone bats an eyelid when there are men involved. Would the people who are literally frothing away at the mouth have lashed out the same way had it been a man? Wonder what really drives this level of hate spewing out? Don't make this suddenly into a gender issue just because there was a woman involved.
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May 22, 2020 09:22pm
@Pan Chung G., please read first paragraph of my comments, and for sure it is not in Latin.!!!!
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May 22, 2020 09:36pm
Why we have see such spectacle? Police group handled very nicely. But I did not see any other people from other cars interjecting and trying to resolve the situation.
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May 22, 2020 09:53pm
@Ahmed, dear, that is the point, I am trying to make that you can’t block the traffic on a highway or public road with high volume of vehicular traffic & have to provide a bypass either by making a section of road under construction available by erecting concrete barriers, signs & posting of flagmen to guide the incoming/outgoing traffic or a detour. All this Is a part of well managed construction plan which seem to be absent.
If you read first paragraph of my comments, I didn’t condon or favor the irrational & colonial minded behavior of supposedly an army officer’s wife. Having ample exposure to the ways construction of road & buildings are done in Pakistan, leave no doubt of this ongoing construction work being done without a plan & that too in a totally haphazard manner, & the project management Team is also responsible for this ugly incident which is evident from long rows of stalled traffic. Court must sought out answer to this often happenings of inefficient project execution
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May 22, 2020 10:04pm
She should be arrested and prosecuted according to the law of the land (if there is any).
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May 22, 2020 10:16pm
@AAHmed, true what you said but this relates to matter to traffic violation or misdemeanor while not observing traffic rules or misbehavior to cops. On the contrary those supervising construction work creating such conditions on a highway section under construction without an approved traffic management plan during work or engineer who signed off on such a faulty traffic plan, which may create such conditions, if reported would also land in jail besides losing their jobs too.
Please be apprised of the fact that here once the state department of transportation (DOT) signs off on the traffic plan duly installed at site, you don’t needs traffic cops to supervise its implementation but a team of owner’s project team comprising of construction managers and inspectors to oversee that work is carried out safely without any hinderance or risk to the contractor staff and general public.
Let the court solve the riddle causing this ugly incident & take to task all those responsible for it.
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May 22, 2020 10:29pm
@Thomas,
Why bring India or Pakistan in such matters
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May 22, 2020 10:52pm
I give respect to the Inspectors who showEd utmost restraint and patience and condemn the woman insulted the inspectors and tried to cross the barrier posing as the wife of a Colonel. She also committed an offence to malign the prestige of our army. She should be tried in a military court.
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May 23, 2020 01:21am
@Thomas, lets talk about our own country and hope law prevails but will only accept when she is in jail
so far India is concerned even though a facist state ruled by a facist who wants to be another hitler but their a constable wrote the challan against traffic violation against their chief of army staff here a women claiming to be a colonel wife can create havoc
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May 23, 2020 02:21am
sorry but this is the real face of most of our Pakistani women. Our media shows Pakistani women are discriminated by their men or have less rights which is not always true. There are two sides of the same coin. Problem lies in our society she misused her power and ran away. Unfortunately illiterate, powerful has destroyed our society. It would never happend in the US, women there are wealthy and powerful but they are civilized!!!
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May 23, 2020 03:03am
@Tehman, Nobody brought the institution in but her, she was blabbering about "she is the wife of a colonel " didn't you hear that?
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May 23, 2020 03:22am
Irrespective of whether the lady in question is the wife of an army colonel the law should take its course showing no regard or bias. Other punishments/ fines etc. apart she should be made to apologize in public and the video should be run on all prominent tv channels and if she is in fact wife of an army officer and her husband has the moral courage he should be with her in the video.
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May 23, 2020 03:40am
Why has she not been arrested yet
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May 23, 2020 03:41am
Useless !!!
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May 23, 2020 03:43am
Well done officers.
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May 23, 2020 03:43am
What if she was actually wife of an army officer.
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May 23, 2020 04:09am
@Thomas, you are in fools paradise.
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May 23, 2020 05:13am
Some had to put the genie back into box . Let’s do it Turkey style
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May 23, 2020 05:17am
She should be sentenced to atleat 1 year in jail and 5 years community service.
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May 23, 2020 05:19am
She should be sentenced to atleast 1 year in jail and 5 years of community service, hopefully this will make her a human
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May 23, 2020 05:29am
She should be locked-up with heavy fine
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May 23, 2020 06:15am
If she had behaved like this in United States and resisted police order she would have been handcuffed in first 30 second. She committed assault by hitting the police with her car (treated as a weapon) she would have been shot by police on the spot. No Kidding. She must be arrested immediately pending outcome of the trial.
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May 23, 2020 06:23am
Excellent move. Make them an example.
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May 23, 2020 07:01am
It is quite irrelevant whether she was a colonel's wife or not. It is the mindset that the exist in Pakistan that by being connected to army makes one immune to the laws of the land.
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May 23, 2020 07:55am
Salute to our Heroes- Polciemen Aurang Zaib and his team.
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May 23, 2020 07:56am
@Sabir Shaha
You said it.
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May 23, 2020 08:16am
@Truthsayer
Please open your eyes.
She was STOPPED by using their video on Social Media.
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May 23, 2020 08:21am
@Mansur Ul Haque
I agree, police personals not only protected but Promoted too.
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May 23, 2020 08:54am
I recollect an incident that happened a few years ago in the UK. Mr. Jack Straw who was Home Secretary at the time was traveling by road to Cardiff. His car was stopped and issued ticket for speeding. At the time only point discussed was, who was to be penalized for over speeding, the driver? or the Home minister?.
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May 23, 2020 09:44am
She must be punished...worst example of power intoxication..
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May 23, 2020 05:09pm
May be she is right.....who knows
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