Would Jinnah have lived as a Shia?

Twenty-nine years ago a boy was born in the city of Karachi. His excited parents just like many before and after them, faced the common question: What should we name him? A name which would do justice to do the kind of person they hoped he would grow up to become. His father, foreseeing the inevitable future, suggested that he be named Sohail Tanveer* going against the child’s grandparents and mother’s wishes, who wanted him to be named Syed Abbas Raza Rizvi, proud of their affiliation with Shia ideology.

Eighteen years later, Tanveer found himself and his family embroiled in another struggle. This time, however, the problem surrounds the academic line he should choose. After almost two decades, the roles reverse and his mother takes charge of the situation. She urges him to choose any other academic field but the field of medicine. Her demands were prompted by the series of targeted attacks on Shia doctors in Karachi.

Tanveer, who was ripped off of his identity at the time of his birth and later was forced to choose against his academic aptitude, succumbed to all that his parents ordered, knowing that they only had his safety in mind. His parents ensured that every aspect of his outer persona and bearings remained free from any affiliation with his sect.

Such has been the force of fear borne by many Shia Muslims living in Pakistan.

Tanveer’s family had a choice, unfortunately, many Shias do not have an alternative because their outward appearance, ethnicity and whereabouts are inevitable clues to the discriminating killers who identify and murder them ruthlessly.

Whether we talk about the Hazara community of Afghanistan who were brutally massacred by the Taliban or the Shias living in Parachinar who were targeted by local militants because of their religious beliefs or members of the Hazara community living in Balochistan and Gilgit-Baltistan, the violence against Shia Muslims perpetrated and sponsored by fascist groups undoubtedly marks the advent of the beginnings of another holocaust.

In some parts of the country the situation has deteriorated to an extent that Shia Muslims refrain from going out of their houses. In 2010, many Shias living in Quetta received brochures and notices, signed by a banned militant outfit, declaring them infidels and making them liable to be prosecuted.

The message also specified that all Shias should leave the country by 2012 for the safety of their lives, conveniently banishing them from a country to which they are more loyal than the bigoted groups propagating hate and fear.

Another such example of this obscenity is a recent grotesque video showcasing the true colours of intolerance in our society. The video shows snippets of the Chilaas massacre, featuring a poor, old man who was asked to prove his identity as a Sunni Muslim. Throughout the video the voices of monsters chanting “Shia Kafir” can be clearly heard – one can not help but wonder exactly when it was that humanity died.

The question is who has the right to flag people as believers and non-believers? Who has the authority to criticise anyone’s faith? And most importantly, what do they want them to do? Leave the country and live in a self-imposed exile away from their homes?

Many Pakistani Shias have sought political asylum in other countries, whereas others frequently leave for safer abodes; however, Pakistan is where their heart truly is. It is their home.

A Shia Muslim living in United Kingdom expressed his profound sadness on past and recent carnages on condition of anonymity by saying, “When Muslims from the Shia school of thought are targeted, I am hurt as a Muslim, as a Shia Muslim. Having grown up in Pakistan, my best friends come from different ethnic communities and sects. I believe that our country can alleviate the state of violence only if we unite as Pakistanis — transcend labels of Sunni, Salafi, Deobandi, Shia, Ahmadi, Hindu, Christian and Parsi — by being vocal in our condemnation of these acts within our respective local communities.”

The truth is that the acts of these uncivilised and inhumane traitors — primarily responsible for supporting sectarian strife in Pakistan — do not have religion on their main agenda when they are instigating violence. All they care and think about is money and the power it brings. Then why hide behind the facade of Islam or any other hypocritical rationale instead of accepting the real motives?

Most disappointing is the knowledge that it is not only the hate-mongering militants who spew venom against Shias. Growing displeasure amongst a group of fundamentalist Pakistanis, which can be attributed to the humongous efforts of pseudo-religious scholars and their misconstrued religious rants, plays an integral part in further pushing the Muslim minority to the precipice. Over the years contents of religious sermons have been tweaked greatly to instigate vengeful feelings toward people professing different faiths. It is ironic that the platform which can be used to propagate humanity and coexistence is widely being used to instigate violence.

What exactly is their fault? Is it that they were born on the wrong side of the globe? Or that they belong to a group of people and society that refuse to accept them as one of their own? Or that they serve Pakistan and protect its people as NLI soldiers? Or that they have always contributed positively in the development and progress of Pakistan?

With the ongoing debate about Jinnah’s religious inclinations, many people wonder that if he were alive, would he have been branded as an infidel as well or survived the sectarian strife? A question which should be a source of introspection for most of us.

The writer is a Reporter at Dawn.com

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Comments (267) Closed

Sep 04, 2012 04:57am
brave enough to talk in favour of oppressed shias; while the silent sunny minority is just callous and apathetic towards Shia killing, giving a tacit approval for the mass genocide of the shias
Sep 03, 2012 03:14pm
Allah Bless Faiza Mirza for writing this excellent thought provoking article and there will be many like her in future, regardless, Pakistan will never change until the day of judgment unless Allah creates a just and honest God-fearing military general to take full control of Pakistan to wipe out militancy, terrorism, target killing, sectarian hate, fanaticism and change Pakistan into a free nation for all Pakistanis regardless of their believes. May Allah help, Insha Allah.
Sep 04, 2012 08:19am
Nehru hated Muslims?? I would say its kind of an over-stretch to expect an irreligious person like Nehru would have reason to hate a particular religious group.
does not matter
Sep 03, 2012 04:31pm
I wonder how would you react if a bus is stopped in Lahore or Karachi and 20 Sunnis are filtered out and shot dead.
Ahmed Sultan (India)
Sep 04, 2012 05:14am
you mean to have a weak center and strong provinces that would have resulted in partition few decades later and that partition may have been worst than 1947. You cant go to past and change it. Jinnah wanted a country he got one.
Ahmed Sultan (India)
Sep 04, 2012 05:17am
Its not about loving each other in bedroom its about loving each other in your society.
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 04:20pm
When asked what kind of a government the constitutional convention had given the people:... "A republic, if you can keep it." -- Benjamin Franklin
M N Syed
Sep 04, 2012 02:35am
Right from the beginning, Pakistan lacked political maturity. Mohammad Ali jinah was sole spokes man, he ruled Muslim League like a dictator. The people living in the part that constituted Pakistan were not prepared to shoulder responsibilty of a free nation. The gap left by politicians was filled by bureaucrats and military. There was no mandate for the welfare of people. Jinnah saheb had successfully exploited religious feeling , the same formulae was adopted by weak leadership in Pakistan. Ultimately the minds and actions have been taken over by short sighted illite religious leaders. Only Ayoob Khan resisted influence of this religious fraternity for some time. Unfortunately the disease spread rapidly with democratic governments. Fatal blow came when Bhutto declared Qadyanis non muslims.Then came Talban and their supporters, they see every body infidels deseving death. Under these circumtaces shias are the present target.( They also facilitate these jhangvi and taliban forces by unnecessarily uttering bad words against Khulfa e Rashidin.). This problem can not be solved by democratic or army governments. First condition to solve this problem is full enforcement of law and order. Unless there fear of law nothing can be done. Like it or not, the condition is so bad that police of the civilian govt. can not make dent in this respect. With every passing day the problem will be acute. The only viable though bitter way is for the political parties in govt. and opposition to declare state of emergency in the country and hand over home department to army. Let army deal with terrorism and law and order through military court.Khutbas delivered in Urdu or local languages in mosques be stopped. There should be no religious processions on roads. If we fail to do this, Pakistan is doomed. Some body from outside will have to do it.
Son of Sardar
Sep 04, 2012 08:18am
Nadeem Sahib Pakistan is already defaming itself and does not need anyone else to defame it.
Ahmed Khan
Sep 03, 2012 03:08pm
You Hindus/ Indians also have caste system, millenia old traditions of Sati, Untouchables etc. Since when did you all become so civilized yourselves? Your pro-communist thought. One bathroom in one chawl (basti) mindset. Ek metro kya agayi Delhi main sub American bangaye kya? 250 million population of middle class, with 750 million population without running water, growing HIV AIDs, unbathed corrupt politicians. I love Pakistan, Jinnah and all Pakistanis regardless of their faith. We are battered and bruise but we are not beyond repair. We shall not be dictated by cucumber sweat mullahs, who think they are running deen ki dukaan in Pakistan.
Sep 05, 2012 05:56am
My friend maintaining a distance with some one and hating some one are two different thing? About Khulafa shia have different belief than sunnis & thats why they are shias not sunnis.Shias neither in the love of some religious personality nor in the hate of any religious personality allow to kill any fellow muslim. It is no way permitted in shia belief. In case any shia uses foul language to express that difference of opinion than its an individual act ( which is not acceptable) & it has nothing to do with the shia belief. Please make your understanding right about shia school of thought.
Sep 03, 2012 04:52pm
Jinnah was a SHIA muslim but does it really matter because he wasn't only one by name! We really need to find a solution to this intolerance problem of the country and stop talking about the should's and the could's!
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 04:23pm
Muslims make a large number of unproven assumptions. Those who choose to believe everything are different than those who simply believe.
Sep 04, 2012 07:30pm
What do you think of Mohammad bin Qasim and Khalid Bin Walid all butchered shias, what you think about Mamon and Mansoor Al Dawaniqi ??? They have followed Islam only for the sake of power and tortured the Sadaats (both women and men) brutally. Try and find some solace in admitting the reality, closing your eyes on it would only make it worst for your soul.
Sep 04, 2012 10:46am
Really Well said . If religion makes a monster then i would prefer not to have one.
Jinnah kaa Aashiq
Sep 04, 2012 08:16am
Mohammad Ali Jinnah, was a true MOMIN, Creation of Pak-Istan. Which is Pak (Clean, Tayyab) and German word STAN, to make a stand, or just stand - teaches us in very short what was it all suppose to be.
Sep 04, 2012 11:32am
Akhter, the consensus among historians is that religious persecution, rare as they were, played only a very minor role in the decline of Buddhism in India. (Jains have always remained a relatively small community in India as they do not proselytize.) But their influence in modern Indian society is far greater than their numbers would suggest. It is true that the Brahminical clergy did not like the Shramanas, i.e. Jains and Buddhists, as they were perceived as threats to their authority. But Buddhism's main weakness (as a monastic religion) was its dependence on royal patronage, and lack of grassroot support in the society. Lack of patronage from a new dynasty will render the sustaining of such monastic communities unviable. (However, please note that this 'lack of patronage' does not equate to 'discrimination'.) Any instances of active persecution by the rulers were probably rare, in the light of evidences. Also worth noting is that Buddhism's strongholds in Western India (modern Pakistan and parts of Afghanistan) suffered successive invasions of the Huns during the second half of the first millenium. Yet another factor that led to the decline of Buddhism was the new Hindu reform movements like Shankaracharya's Advaita Vedanta which incorporated many Buddhist methodologies to the Hindu fold effectively bridging the gap between the two. He even created a Hindu monastic order in the lines of Buddhists (akin to a 'Buddhist' school within Hinduism), which still is very influential in modern India. Thus if Hinduism has placed any role in the decline of Buddhism in India, it was through assimilation of its beliefs (which one historian called a 'fatal embrace') and not persecution.
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 05:59pm
Jinnah knew Nehru and the Muslim League students at Cambridge, although he was not attending university there. They thought partition was the answer. The problem is people have been arguing for 4,000 years. Why stop now because someone has a better idea? Jinnah and Nehru were cocked eyed optimists, but Nehru's father was in national politics and Nehru had followed his father to Cambridge -To study and to hold the Anglo-Indian Scepter of Royalty. Table manners and cricket are important. "Yes. We must set a good example for the people. Could you pass me the mango chutney and the Danish butter? Thank you so much."
Sep 03, 2012 12:05pm
very good article. very good comments. but dear all, be it india or be it pakistan, your nation cannot be set aright unless and until TALKERS and WRITERS leave their cozy ivory cocoon and fight this war against violence by taking the fanatics head on. Let me allow to add they cannot be killed by counter violence. The truth is those who hold guns or machete are innocent. you can kill them. but you cannot kill the ideology that sustains them. Even the great mahatma gandhi could not eliminate hatred from undivided india. both india and pakistan now need a greater messiah than gandhi.
Dilbar Ali
Sep 03, 2012 09:19am
Very True Article & very sad Truth. Do not know why peope in Pakistan are ready to kill & dye.
Sep 03, 2012 06:45pm
The blame game is remarkably easy, we people easily stuck in the nets thrown to us. we always talks about this and that why not started by our-self... ok everybody was a failure in past leave them cursing is not the solution.... today is in our hand, on every forum this sect thing shouts louder then anything else, did we ever think of it this way that it's being done with a purpose... Pakistan is a nuclear power a big thing not just another country we do have enemies some are in front of us some hidden underneath a friendship cover... is it the time to go head to head against them ?? or wasting time just to increase the flames of that fire which started expending its basis... we all do stereotyping which is quite negative when we do it our own country with our own people... those who are doing it they dont even a part of this society properly why we point our fingers on those who are our own people of our own society... it will get bad to worse if goes on this way....
Sep 03, 2012 04:53pm
If Jinnah would have been alive he would have committed sucide seeing the present situation of sactarianism in Pakistan.
Sep 03, 2012 04:53pm
You, indeed do not have to say anything for Nehru - he did the best for India - secular, tolerant, non-aligned, self-reliant(opening heavy Industry, setting educational institutes) socialist, good governance (pretty much devoid of the today's corruption). Think of the compromises he had to make for the religion. When one look at Africa and see their post independence governance - one begin to see that Nehru was a right kind of leader India was blessed with at the right time. If he had given an inch for not having Pakistan, the disaster of intolerance would have been gripping India all this time. In stead of Pakistan having this trouble, India would have been having it. At least, now it is good even for Pakistanis to see across the border and see that there is a land worth emulating.
Sep 04, 2012 05:23am
Habib, Jinnah disassociated himself from religion from the beginning. He drank, smoked and lived like an Englishman. It is before a decade or so before partition that he worked for a separate homeland for "muslims" didnt he know who the majority was?
Sep 04, 2012 05:27pm
Iran is a great concern to Sunni leaders? so the solution is to kill the shias in Pakistan? Well not a bad solution. But there is only one problem. Shias are being killed by the 'Concerned Sunni Leaders' in the past 1400 years but they were not able to wipe them out. Do you think they will be successfull this time?
manmohan gandhi
Sep 03, 2012 02:03pm
It is indeed a moot point as to whether Jinnah would have lived as a Shia. However, looking back at the way the "Direct Action Day" of 1946 has panned out, it is more than conceivable that Jinnah would have turned Sunni or been killed as this is the logical outcome of his greed for power for which he unleashed an extremely brute force whose appetite has not yet been satiated. If he was a truly secular soul, as has been claimed, and on the true meaning of the word, Jinnah would be twirling in his grave at an intergalactic speed. Poor soul - all his life's work has gone down the narrow tube of barbarity.
Sep 04, 2012 05:30am
Pakistani people need to stand up against these ignorant intolerant religious terrorists. Just dreaming.
Sep 04, 2012 10:41am
Guys this is nothing but an extention of the Iraq Iran war, when remember the Sunni rulers of Gulf nations gave money to Idiot Saddam to fight and destroy the Shia Iran, when they could get the favoured result they found another Idiot Zia to get the job done with USA in toe. It is all about power gentlemen, it is nothing religious beleive me, these same sects were all in the same wagon when they were raising the flag of Islam against Ahmedies. So please do ot get so upset the saying goes " what you sow so shall you reap".
Agha Ata
Sep 03, 2012 01:55pm
Has anyone read Jinnah's biography (Official) by Hector Bolitho? That explains everything, much more than you need to know!
Sep 03, 2012 10:57am
Wonder why we are bringing Mr Jinnah in this saga..... It is a well known fact that we are the creration of hate. we will never have peace. Buddah sad " hate cannot be ended by hate but by love." Thanks to Zia and his regime they further added fuel to this fire. They created the monster and it is under no one control.
A Hindu
Sep 03, 2012 01:10pm
I strongly recommend that you visit India to see how "Indian Muslims" are treated. I work with many muslims in my company and I do not see them any differently than a Hindu. Muslims are given equal right and freedom of practicing their religion (Sunni, Shia, Ahemdi...etc). It will be dreadful to even imagine that Pakistan will ever have secular or plularistic as India. Ideal way of getting Pakistan back on track is to give your religion a back seat and economic growth the front. Religion should compliment a nation and not the other way around.
Sep 04, 2012 06:54am
Surinder, I appreciate your concern but I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say. I think I made it clear in my comments that I am not giving a sermon. Every religious system has their strengths and weaknesses which are the creations of the specific environments where they were created. Abrahamic faiths ensure equality for all believers in their fold, but this comes at the cost of intolerance to even minor differences in their religious beliefs. For Hinduism, it is just the opposite. Being more of a family of faiths, it accomodates a wide range of beliefs and customs, but the greatest failure of Hindu society was that it denied the equality of the believers by perpetrating the caste system over three millenium. Tolerance begins when one recognizes ones weaknesses in addition to the strengths.
Sep 03, 2012 12:24pm
All we have to do is read comments in the online indian newspapers to see your hate for muslims
Lakshmidhar Malaviya
Sep 04, 2012 02:16am
It is far worse than disease! Because ANY disease can be diagnosed and cure prescribed, which in most cases is effective. Not religion. Tell me, pray, who is a Muslim? Or a Hindu? Without waiting for your response (which without fail be rubbish!) I can give you a reply : if you consider yourself to be a Muslim, and declare yourself as such, I shall accept it because it is YOUR BELIEF! Who am I to question it! If some one else deems himself to belong to bagalbandi sect, who has the right even to enquire whether such a (religious) sect exists! Sarmad, the renowned Sufi, recited only first half of Kalma. Ghalib famously said that he was only `half muslim' because he partook of alcohol but not pork! What if Jinnah drank, ate pork, smoked - and counted himself as Muslim. In my staunchly orthodox Hindu family, three members converted to Islam and later married girls from Muslim families; one became a Christian. So what! Lakshmidhar Malaviya Kyoto, Japan
Sep 03, 2012 01:02pm
Proselytizing faiths would ultimately find themselves tied up in knots, since their central belief which is indoctrinated into them is that their faith is superior to other pagan beliefs which are primarily polytheistic. And of course Abrahamic faiths define rewards in the after life for conversions of non believers or more appropriately of other religions. So what starts as targeting other religious groups finally turns inward in an attempt to cleanse their own faith with a false notion of better believers. The core message of all religions however, is peace and brotherhood which unfortunately is lost on these so called defenders because their motive is to capture power at any cost despite the confused road map ahead.
Akil Akhtar
Sep 05, 2012 12:03am
Are you for real.... Indians do not hate Pakistanis..? You must be living under a rock.
Sue Sturgess
Sep 05, 2012 03:13am
If you put a group of very young children together, they will play together. They do not even ask one another's names, they have no understanding of religious affiliations, ignore skin colour, have no appreciation of world geography or national boundaries - they just play. Then, as they get a little older, their families impart all of the hatred and prejudices that have been handed down for generations, and these innocent children grow up perpetuating the situation. Instead of teaching the children, perhaps the adults should learn from them!
Sep 08, 2012 07:42am
So very fortunate, but even 30 years back you guys must have repented it as then Pakistan was the only country doing well economically and looked progessive at least till early 80's.
Muslim Khan
Sep 03, 2012 09:28am
Yet, a very correctly written article as most of our Media persons are so rightly scared of their lives from the same monsters that they hesitate to pick up the pen and address this cruel reality.
A Sunni
Sep 03, 2012 05:54pm
Mrs. Writer please ask these questions to Mr.Safi Ul-Din the Iranian nationalist and creator Safavid dynasty, he not only converted Iranian Sunnis to Shiaism by brutal force he attacked Sunni republics like Iraq and syrian, turkey and cental asia to spred his idology, while Ottomans were busy tackling europians in eastern eurpose, his force started attacking Ottomans(a sunni empire) from east. This issue is not very simple, Iran is still busy spreading his idology to other Sunnis states which is a great concern to Sunni leaders. They dont want to end up in a situtation like Iraq and Syria. Please read the correct history.
Sep 06, 2012 07:57am
People are dividing society by 1)Religion 2)Race 3)Region 4)Rituals 4)Families 5)Counties Dividing is the act of Evil uniting is the act of God So all of you should unite together India Pakistan Hindu Muslim Christian Buddhist Jews etc Shia Sunni Ahmadia protestant catholic Brahman shudra Stop dividing society.All are one know it be it. History is filled with mistakes do not continue those mistakes. Foget Fogive and move on. Fogive ur enemies To err is human to forgive is divine
Sep 06, 2012 08:16am
well said
zia ul haq
Sep 03, 2012 02:25pm
Khan saab, aap bhul gaye - this is blasphemy! I hope you are out of the country for your own safety.
Sep 04, 2012 05:30pm
My friend I have a saying " justification of ills is the biggest sin of all ". History is neither simple nor accurate, someone else can list atrocities from many Sunni rulers would that solve the situation? Are we matching scores? You can not change the past but you can work on fixing present and hopefully have a better future. You can at least speak clearly and unequivocally against atrocities be it Shia, Sunni, or non Muslim. Please stop justifying these monstrous animal like behavior. Your statements above give credence to violence and inhuman behavior.
Sep 03, 2012 02:57pm
Dear Miss Fatima you must admit (after thorough and neutral research of course), the deep rooted hatred involved here against some of the family of the house of Prophet Muhammad (SAW), and Prophet Muhammad's Companions (RA); beyond the Ashrah Mubasharrah, and 'Aisha Siddiqua (RA), whom Allah Himself fully exonerated in His Book (The Qur'an), which will remain till the Day of Judgement, has to be acknowledged. The Companions, who are a special people chosen by, approved, satisfied with, and endorsed by Allah Himself in the Qur'an, who have also been mentioned in the Torah and the Injeel, must help in understanding the problem. I have yet to come across a family of Shia persuasion who have proudly named any of their children, girl, or boy 'Aisha', 'Abu Bakr', 'Umar', 'Usman', 'Abi Waqqas' etc., whereas the Sunni Muslims have all proudly kept the blessed names of Fatima, Ali, Hassan, Hussain, Zainalabideen, Jaffar Saddiq, Bakar and plenty more. So where really lies the hatred, or ignorance??? I think we're all barking up the wrong tree, dealing with symptoms rather than the disease itself. "Today the disbelieves have despaired of harming your religion; so fear them not and fear Me. On this day I have perfected your religion, completed My favour on you and have chosen Islam as your religion." (Surah al-Ma'ida, 5:3). Allah Himself is approving and endorsing His Religion, thrice in the above verse, none other than Islam, as no other deen or religion will ever be accepted by Him from anyone on that Fateful Day. What is the deen of Islam then? The Commandments of Allah as shown and practiced by Prophet Muhammad (SAW). The very Prophet that the honorable Father of our beautiful Nation Pakistan clearly mentioned when asked about his religion. 'Indeed, the nearest and dearest among you with Allah, is he who most fears Him'... (whether he is a Pakistani Janitor, or the President of the United States of America...a signal constitutional ayat from the Qur'an proclaimed in the historic Hujjatul Wida Sermon of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) which clean sweept away all cellestial (aasmani), lineagel, proginatory, and social standing rights! So lets all follow Islam (Qur'an and the consensus Sunnah) in its totality, and do away with all this uneccassary, unmandated, and unwarranted hatred amongst the beautiful people of Pakistan! May Allah bring us all closer together. Aameen.
Sep 07, 2012 01:57pm
ISLAM was never, and never will be tied up in knots. Sects are splinter break-away groups from mainstream Islam. One does not proselytize Islam. A Muslim merely invites to the TRUTH. Whether the son or daughter of Adam and Eve accept it or not is not in the invitor's control or hands. It may take him/her a minute to understand this TRUTH, or it may take a hundred years. It is Allah who decides the time. And the TRUTH is: we are all indeed from Allah, and unto Allah we are all returning. And this TRUTH is not open to interpretation and or secular philosophizing, period!!!
Sep 03, 2012 09:24am
People like you are called " Ostrich" . It doesnt matter that you write in CAPITALS. go and threaten someone else. Your shouting doesnot change the truth nor will it save you from what you aer bringing on yourself.
Sep 03, 2012 10:19am
Kudos!!! you have put the irony in words very well.
Sep 03, 2012 02:35pm
Target killing of Shias has been going on for 1400 years, its not something that started with Zia. It happened pre-partition. It happened when Abbasi dynasty founder Mansoor-e-Do-Anaqi had Syeds walled up alive when he built Baghdad. And it's happening today. Plus the kids born in the Zia age and in the 90s are in their twenties now, if not older. So the story about Tanveer does not look that fabricated. This issue can not be solved by ignorance as that is never going to happen. It can only be solved by tolerance of each others' beliefs and the 'live and let live' policy. Apologies if you're offended, that was certainly not my intention. :)
Sep 03, 2012 05:15pm
If only people were more appalled when this happened to Ahmedis. When your state plays favorites, when you set a precedent, when you try to define "a Muslim", there will be consequences. With my experience talking to Pakistanis here in US, an overwhelming majority thinks (I know its not a scientific opinion poll, but enough to form my opinion) more Islam is solution to all the "foreign hand inspired" ills plaguing their country. Well the precent situation is just an organic assertion - "my kind of Islam". I say this with all the bias of a shia muslim turned atheist born in Lucknow, a city which I can attest has a similar though limited issues. Also, India inspires more confidence in tackling these and similar sectarian/communal issues. We may enormous number of troubles, but there a often delayed justice, but some justice. And I may say its getting better, or may be I'm just a romantic.
Sep 03, 2012 05:16pm
"secular islamic repuplic" Have you heard the word "Oxymoron"?
Sep 05, 2012 01:50am
Pakistan bana ye hindustan kh khuskismat thi, tumne pakistan chuna ye tumhari badkismat thi. Na pakistan mangte, na tumhare mulq ka ye haal hota or aaj hindustan world ki sab se badi economic power hota or mein bhi lahore dekh sakta. Akhir 'jinhe lahore nahin vekhya, o jamia hi nahin.
Malik Rashid
Sep 03, 2012 05:20pm
?'when it was that humanity died?' When the concept of nation was used to divide ethnic entities and multi-ethnic unity, on the basis of religious identity in the sub-continent, a war began and humanity was suspended. Two nuclear armed states grew out of the conflict and a third was created after shedding a lot of human blood. The western idea of nation-state evolved to accommodate pluralism and multi-culturalism but 'uncivilized and inhumane traitors' used the notion to instigate violence and cut people off literally, to gain power and wealth. Humanity remains suspended and religion has become a violent political tool.
Sep 03, 2012 05:14pm
Shia Sunni conflict started from the time Shia sect/group was born. But throughout history if one notices Shias' were the intellectuals of muslims, more tolerant open minded and were known for Sufi Saints etc whereas Sunnis were the foot soldiers, led by mullahs and mostly uneducated. Even in Aurangazeb days when he conqured Deccan kingdom who wee Shias he made sure his horses used Shia mosques as stables- This is quote from " Whilt Mogals" by WilliamDalrymple. So this conflict is happening since the 6th century. Pakistan is using the same tactic to go back to stone ages. This is a fact and it is bitter to read
Maryam Tahir
Sep 03, 2012 06:04pm
I appreciate your work but contrary to your statement which says "Shia Muslims refrain from going out of their houses...".Shias Muslims are being targeted for many years but this doesn't stop their spirits.it can surely be seen in their every great procession.
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 05:14pm
The Afghans and Taliban learned their killing from Spetnaz and the Russian Army. Spetnaz, Russian special forces, are trained knee deep in animal blood. They have unit citations for bayoneting pregnant women. They also tried out their nerve gas on the Afghans. People who have been abused will abuse others. Zia wanted these Taliban fighters on his side, but the Taliban are fighting a war against "Luxury". If they can win it they will be enjoying your luxuries. All they need to do is to organize Pakistan. An easy task. The slaves you call farmers are ready for a new deal. Farm tools make excellent weapons. Imran Khan has smelled the coffee but he is naive about the Taliban's real motives. God has called on them to purify Pakistan. They will not stop until their religious duty is done.
Sep 03, 2012 06:49pm
The thought is nice. Unfortunately too late. Minorities in your country have long been either eliminated or marginalized. In doing so, you have successfully eliminated your own kins and ancestors, the original inhabitants. Giving respect and rights to the dead would be a bright political ploy, though.
Fazal Karim
Sep 04, 2012 07:05pm
I think there should be open debate between Shia alims ( who insult Khulfa e Rashidin) and sunni alims( including those who declare shias Kafir) why they hate or dislike each other. Let them come with quranic injections to support their view point. Let their arguments be judged by muslim and non muslim scholars and determine whether it is justified to continue hostility and bad feelings. Should it not be left to God to punish wrong doers.
Nadeem Shah
Sep 03, 2012 05:12pm
Why we all think there is a fix to every ailment in a community, the fact is that it is a journey and whilst some people catch up with your values and beliefs you move on to a new set of values. The tension will always be there. The question is can people afford to live together knowing there differences? The answer is, Yes. You give people basic necessities of life and they won't mind these higher value (Maslow) needs. The West has been feeding its people at the cost of third world. In the end it's the 'capitalists' who are winning sadly!
Sep 03, 2012 03:37pm
TVS hang your head in shame Jinnah was the founder of your country how can you blame him for the mess your country is now in, hes been dead nearly 60yrs, it was not only Jinnah who wanted a separate home land for the muslims the hindus wanted muslims out of India as well Neru hated the muslims Gandhi had no time for them what would you have done? do not be so rude about such a great man if it was not for him the likes of you who can now mouth off will still be second class citizens in India.Jinnah gave Pakistan to the Pakistanis and in turn they have ruined it if he was alive today he would shed tears he gave his life for Pakistan and the corrupt politicians have bought it to its knees.
Ahmad Nadeem
Sep 05, 2012 01:47pm
Would Jinnah have lived Shia ? I fail to understand why Jinnah has become a reference point ? He was a non practicing muslim, never thought of Pakistan in terms of Sunnis or Shias. Our leadership has failed us, Pakistan is not a failed state. Zia Ul Haq introduced Islamism, prior to that ZAB introduced sectarianism by declaring Ahmadis a minority (muslim).
Muhammad Ali
Sep 04, 2012 04:16pm
Mr Sunni (i am just calling u by ur user name .. i don't consider u a sunni) Have a heart..?! .. People are brutally murdered and dying and all you care about is history!! ,, Where was this history when Saddam murdered those in Halabja?? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Anfal_Campaign and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack ) .. who were they? .. shias?? Bigots like you are the reason that children, women and men are getting murdered in ethnic/sectarian violence in every part of the world. If Safi-u-ddin and safvid dynasty were criminals .. you will take their revenge from present shias? Shias of Ali (Alehissalam) are not afraid of death. We teach our children to live like Ali and die like Husain. The days for bigots like you are numbered .. just like Sadam and Osama and .. whoever u will bring forward! No salam to u!
Sep 03, 2012 02:07pm
Correction: Shias never call Sunnis Kafir (non-Muslim). It is only sunni always grading kafir and mushrik. Can you recall any such slogan as Sunni Kafir?
A Shia Muslim
Sep 03, 2012 11:03am
True....Same lame excuse of "Foreign Hand" is given everytime by people....it is the locals that do it....no foreign hand need to dirty itself when the so-called loyal local millitants are there who are doing the killing spree!!!!!
Sep 03, 2012 06:17pm
I am sorry but I had to reply. Jinnah was not solely responsible for creating Pakistan, it were the Congress leaders such as Nehru and Patel as well. Had they agreed to Power division in 1946, we wouldn't have had this so called 'mess'. Just wanted to correct the perception of my friend. And sir, every now and then there are instances suggesting religious riots in India as well. So it is also not true that religion doesn't matter in India. It does. Look at Punjab (1984), Gujrat(2002), Bombay (1993), Assam(2012) etc.
Sep 03, 2012 09:37am
Open your eyes to see the problem..do not blame west for every teeny weeny wrongdoing of your society.
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 05:24pm
As much as they deny it the leaders of both India and Pakistan are Anglophiles. That is a problem for India's and Pakistan's populations. It is as Mustafa Kemel ataturk told his Francophile ministers. "When we sit down to eat - here class differences begin."
Sep 03, 2012 04:57pm
Mr. Vineeth, i think one has no business to comment or give semons on what should people of other religion do.
Fahad Sandhu
Sep 05, 2012 08:37am
its a good approach towards the issue, keep it up to higher level and due to your contribution many of us are now known to the exact circumstances which leads to these massacre. good luck.
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 04:34pm
Buddha realized he could not eliminate hatred. One can only remove hatred inside himself before it consumes him. The Mahatma was assassinated. Politics is a dangerous game - Even for a saint. He was not killed by a Muslim, but his killer was filled with hatred.
Sep 04, 2012 07:38pm
What do you think of Khalid Bin Waleed and Mohammad Bin Qasim ? Zia ul Haq & Saddam Hussain of that era were nt they ? All killed humans for the sake of power, greed and hatred for the family of Holy Prophet (PBUH)
A Shia Muslim
Sep 03, 2012 11:08am
@sharma.....very boldy said......i agree with you 101%!
Sep 05, 2012 07:08pm
My dear Mr Akil, well I will not elaborate the 'rock' with the effects of Indian propaganda on Pakistanis, as I am an analyst by profession. Yet i must say that over here I was not referring to an ordinary Indian citizen. They are I feel naive to an extent. I am specifically focusing on the foreign policy of Indian Government. I believe very strongly in two nation theory and if we as a country are experiencing turbulence since the last decade, it has to do a lot to the mismanagement by our leaders. But for a 60 year old country which is situated on various fault lines, I have not lost hope for the future. Having said that I firmly believe that our transition period will end for good and withdrawal of ISAF and NATO from Afghanistan, things will change for good. What ever happen within our country, it is our domestic issue. The Indians should first solve their domestic challenges and then can think about suggesting us something. But before that they will have to prove their goodwill by listening to the demands of Kashmiris. End of the day, they boast to be a huge democracy, isn't it?
Sep 03, 2012 02:38pm
Kashif from your comments, I assume you are young man with little knowledge of Pakistan history. The writer has portrayed the right picture of the situation. The first massacre of shias in Pakistan occured in 1963 in interior sindh (Thehri). Big numbers of shias were mercilessly killed in that unfortunate incident. Then in 1983 Zia regime sponsored shias killing in Karachi. The present wave of terrorism against shias started just after the finishing of Afghan war in late eighties. Please consult last two decede of Dawn newspaper & then you might understand the gravity of the situation. Just don't rely on unreliable information and on your own logic. You will have to study, think impartially & open mindedly to understand and admit the facts. There was no doubt Quaid-e-Azam was a shia & he was not a born shia but he opted for it like poet Ghalib. Documentary proofs are available in this regard. If you have any respect for Jinnah as a founder of Pakistan then condemn the killing of shias in a loud and clear voice.
Sep 03, 2012 03:18pm
The debate is ongoing because Media makes sure such debates remain very much alive since conflict is the bread and butter of all those dime-a-dozen journalists , analysts and anchorpersons !!
Sep 05, 2012 12:34am
Mr Sunni, By your theory, we should also question the Arab invaders who forcefully converted hindus and budhists living in the Indian subcontinent. When will we let go the burden of our history and look forward
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 05:41pm
" The list goes on? We might as well have the rest of your list."
Sep 03, 2012 05:59pm
Unfortunately, the answer is an emphatic no! Jinnah would have also sought refuge in some other country, maybe India, where after all 45 million Shias live in safety not found in Pakistan. The Wahabi brand of Islam brought in from saudi Arabia has generated intollerance towards all non-Sunnis. It is a great shame that the ideals and vision of Jinnah have been shattered so soon after independence
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 04:39pm
Amen, brother. Amen.
Sep 03, 2012 06:03pm
Dear Rehan If not a disease....then ofcourse religion is an expired medicine ......you take it and you will be dead......
Sep 03, 2012 04:37pm
There is no hate for Indian Muslims in general . There may be one or two lunatics here and there otherwise the Indian Muslims would not have been joining other rational Indians to condemn intolerant lot coming on the forum.
Hassan Parvez
Sep 03, 2012 06:03pm
With what is happening in Pakistan, I have been wondering how long Pakistan will survive as a nation (though I honestly feel that Pakistan does not deserve to be a nation). When I read comments by people like Imran, I get my answer, as long as people like him exist, Pakistan will remain on the map of the world..
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 05:38pm
Before Jinnah could organize a country India had to get World War II out of the way. Many Muslim and Sikh infantry aquired huge war experience against the Japanese killing machine in the Jungles of Burma and Thailand. The Japanese fought to the death and showed no one mercy. The Sikhs were ready for Muslim independence. The Afghans were not going to challenge 300,000 men who returned to Punjab from the war, and the Sikhs intended to sort the Muslims out.
Sep 04, 2012 05:38pm
Your understanding of history is pathetic. You first need to learn and develop your knowledge. Nobody in Iran is forced to do anything or being labled as kafirs, not even after revolution. Safavi dynasty was closer to West and its ironic that they were involved in bombarding near by the shrines of Shiite Imams. So what you are interperating is completely at 180degree of history. You are justifying all these shia carnages by something which may have happened (lets assume they did) 30-40 years ago and in other countries. FYI - whatever happening in Syria is because of the involvement of Saudia, Qatar and Turkey and there is no local uprising.
Sep 05, 2012 12:32pm
I totally agree with sara-e hindustan. Stop blaming foreign hands.
Sep 03, 2012 10:39am
JInnah new what he was getting. Nehru and Jinnah were two people so blinded in their ambitions that the greater good of sub-continent had no meaning for them. Jinnah used extreme violence (Direct action days etc) to create Pakistan and it got consumed by violence. Thos who live by sword will die by sword-true for nations as well. As for Nehru...well what to say
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 04:49pm
Muslims fight Evil by peeking out of the windows to see what the teenagers next door are doing, or a young couple walking past their house. Muslims have been run by frustrated old women. Now, once again will be run by raiders and bandits. All is well, and everything is back to normal. Forbidding is not fighting.
Sep 03, 2012 12:41pm
Well, it may sound rude to many pakistanis, but jinnah unknowingly was responsible for this mess, he started the divide from hindu, a separate home land for Muslim, zia divided it further and now the various sunni groups, so basically If Jinnah would have been alive, i am sure he would have repented why in first place he asked for a separate country for muslims.because in India, it hardly matters to which religion you belong to, or the state you belong to, though in between politician try to create some division but on the whole normal people dont mind mingling among any religion or state
Sep 03, 2012 05:32pm
Ajay, the problem was with us ( Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis ) who did not listen to Gandhi. When you say "greater messiah" you obviously mean our own conscience. Gandhi only said "HInduism and Islam are like my two eyes, and which eye would you wish me to lose ?" ...and when two countries unfurled their independent flags of freedom on successive days, he was in one of his fasts in a corner of a ramshackle nondescript building in Calcutta, anything but celebrating the event.. But leaving aside the factors that led to the new-born countries, 65 plus years on, the question we should really ask is, has it served the interests of the vast millions of the public that inhabit it, not just for the "roti, kapda, aur makaan" but also health, education, quality of life etc ?
Sep 03, 2012 03:49pm
I DISAGREE with your quote. MR. Jinnah was never a practising MUSLIM. nor EVEN he needed to know , wife RUTTIBAI ( a parsi ) were married in parsi mosque. he never knew urdu & his linguafranca was english. he brought urdu as national language because majority of educated bureaucrats that were imported from INDIA as local muslims were uneducated. PUNJABI, SINDHI, PASHTU & BALUCH : none speak urdu as their native language ( imported jaban for elite )
Sep 05, 2012 11:42pm
100% agree/
Sep 03, 2012 03:19pm
"cured himself out of religion" ?? what does this mean ... makes religion appear like a disease
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 04:42pm
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster." -- Nietzsche
Sep 03, 2012 04:41pm
But what is Iran doing- encouraging the killing of Sunnis ? I am afraid it is one sided. Saudi funded and Sunnis supported.
Sep 03, 2012 05:20pm
CAUSE & EFFECT ( Mankind never knew tsunami or Global warming )
Sep 03, 2012 03:29pm
ISLAMIC CONVERSION & CONFLICTS THERE ARE FEW humanists who are truly educated (Edu means that teaches brain how to think logically , inherent normalcy to human) .first it identifies the true meaning of a human; then the rest is established according to social environment. Brain has three functions: logical, universal truthful & Oxy-glucose phagic ( uses fuel :glucose & oxygen): The first two are pillars of cognitive functions> functional MRI When religious software IS INSTALLED on brain and it contradicts the cognitive faculty of the brain (mind) ,it brings a conflict in identity is the root cause violence .A virtual image of illogical concept vs logical COGNITVE image conflict is created.. Religious concept is DIVINE and cannot be challenged or amended by imprimatur of divinity and protected by divine laws; agent of this divinity are mullah/priests who deliver to the commoner with interpretations of their wisdom, with superstitions & obscurantic ideology; hence the end product is deadly for humanity. THAT'S why you may see many educated who still bears the conflict and endorse violence. In fact, they are the better planner to execute the violence than uneducated. This is the tragedy when Pakistan parliament declared DR.ABDUS SALAM as non-Muslim; "enemy's property "LAW was promulgated in Pakistani parliament and millions were legally dispossessed by FANATICS. RAPE CAMPS were conducted in EAST PAKISTAN where Hindu girls from middle class and upper class were abducted by local Zealots along with PAK-FAUZ. Forceful conversion started, it became a norm in east Pakistan. Persecution & Injustice became the law of the land. BENGALI Muslims never ever thought that the wind could blow other way but it did!
Akhter Husain
Sep 05, 2012 07:39am
Had the debate could resolve the problems,there would not have been ferocious wars between human beings.We have been debating the truthfulness of our religions since centuries, without bringing peace to this world.Humanity and peace are too serious a subject to be left to the debating scholars.We, the people, must rise above ourselves.and find peaceful ways of living together.
mehdi habib
Sep 03, 2012 03:58pm
Clearly a delusional addiction.
Sep 05, 2012 05:54am
'Those are a people who have passed away; theirs is that which they earned, and yours that which you earn. And you will not be asked of what they used to do' [2.141]. This clear message has twice been repeated in the Qur'an. So Salman, get your act together and break out of those unfortunate politically motivated tragical historical sad events, and start making your way to Paradise, as no soul will bear anothers burden on that Fateful Day, each one of us will be independently accountable for our obedience, disobedience, and rebellion against Allah, my friend...
Sep 03, 2012 09:08am
Its obvious...
Sep 03, 2012 09:10am
Salman Ahmad
Sep 03, 2012 03:13pm
Relating to Sohail Tanveer of this article, I dropped my last name Naqvi forty nine years ago and thus my surname became Ahmad. Gues what? it was akin to falling out of the frying pan into the fire. The sad part is that the menace pointed out in this article is targeted at those who are illiterate barbarians and can not read or write what is said here. They are brain washed by bearded mullahs with twisted minds. You can not logic with them. As far as people of Shia persuasion are concerned, history bears witness to persecution of followers of Husain, Fatima, Ali, and Mohammad by the followers of Yazid, Muawiya, and Abu Sufiyaan. We have not been able to climb out of the dark ages and in fact are fast falling into Dante's rings of fire. If this is not hell on earth then what is?
A Sunni
Sep 03, 2012 05:50pm
Mrs. Writer please ask these questions to Mr.Safi Ul-Din the Iranian nationalist and creator Safavid dynasty, he not only converted Iranian Sunnis to Shiaism by brutal force he attacked Sunni republics like Iraq and syrian, turkey and cental asia to spred his idology, while Ottomans were busy tackling europians in eastern eurpose, his force started attacking Ottomans(a sunni empire) from east. This issue is not very simple, Iran is still busy spreeading his idology for other sunnis stated which is a concern to Sunni leaders. Please read the correct history.
Hassan Parvez
Sep 03, 2012 05:51pm
Thanks Allah for our media to keep such issues alive and allow debate in our sick society. Rehan probably believe in keeping his head under the sand to ignore or denies that intolerance is being taught by the majority of our Mullahs and Ulemas in Pakistan
Sep 04, 2012 07:17am
I write as a Pakistani, as a Muslim and as a patron of Pakistan
Sep 04, 2012 07:16am
What a Thamasha This discussion is since the beginning and this will never end till the Day of Judgment, between rights and wrong please see Mukhtar Nama on Youtube you will come to know exact history of Asli Munafi/Kafir. In our holy book it has mentioned that if someone kills one human it means he kills all humans (here you decide who Kafir is). Muslim should think that the world politics are drifting towards their country and already they destabilized many Muslim countries in the world and it will be end the day they would come to cordon Pakistan. They already had penetrated into Pakistan by divided Pakistani Nation and till their arrival they would crated as much uncertainty as they can. The main problem in our nation is that they are Illiterate; especially the Mulla
Sep 03, 2012 06:15pm
Before partition some Shia Indian Muslim leaders questioned Jinnah's rationale when he curried support from them. Knowing his own Khoja background they wondered whether he wasn't simply being naive to the possibility that he may simply just land them from a supposed Hindu hegemony into a Sunni Islamist hegemony instead under the false guise of unity, which in itself is admirable but seemed divorced from reality of how things were.
A Muslim
Sep 06, 2012 12:14pm
Mr. Sunni. Who u want to hoodwink? Iranian ideology has spread to Palestinian Sunnis and they resist Zionist Israeli occupation. It is not Safavid who razed the holy shrines and sacred places of Islam in Makkah, Medina, Najaf, Karbala, Samarra. Please don't distort history. However, Iran of Imam Khamenei is different. As a Pakistani, I propose to you to conduct an impartial and objective research on the topic. Conversion within Islamic school of thought through knowledge is not a sin. But, Hamas and other Palestinians enjoy Iranian support although they have not embraced Shia Islam. If Mohammad Ali Jinnah had been a Shia, it should not hurt you. Ask from the followers of Maulana Shabbir Usmani Deobandi why he and his followers offered namaz-e-janaza of Mr. Jinnah.
Sep 03, 2012 04:15pm
"We use to be a sovereign nation with lots of tolerance for each others few years back." means it is now neither sovereign nor has any tolerance left. Yes, I concur but most do not want to admit to either of this fact.
Sep 05, 2012 04:53pm
The need of the hour for Pakistan is a leader like Kamal AlaTurk. Ban religion and all that it teaches for the next 10 or maybe 25 years. He should be supported by the army & I am sure after this a new generation will take root and like present day Turkey make religion a very personal matter. Any outward show of religion must be outlawed with an iron hand. Otherwise there is no way out of this misery. Your country was formed by an admirable man and his soul must be restless with all that is going on.
W. Malik
Sep 03, 2012 04:27pm
There is no easy solution to intolerance of Shias by the Sunnis. One thing is quite clear. Sunnis respect all Muslim figures from the past including Hazrat Ali, Hussain, Hassan, Fatima, Zainab.
Sep 03, 2012 11:58am
Islam is a religion of PEACE & Muslims do not kill Muslims , atleast in the Land of Pure. Just a few sunni-muslims send a few shia-muslims into sheer bliss and peace here and there. So, what's the big fuss about ? Pakistan was created so that the muslims of the sub-continent could practice their faith without fear . Now , it's time to divide Pakistan further so that the Shias , Ahmediyas , Christians and Hindus could practise their faith without fear. Balochistan and Sindh should be declared independent of Pakistan and the minorities be settled there. Free Balochistan !!! Free Sindh !!! The UNSC should see to it that there is peaceful migration of the persecuted minorities into these new nation states. By the way, Pakistan's nuclear arsenal should all be divided into these newfound Nations .
Sep 04, 2012 03:28am
Are you clear in your mind? Your books teach hate. Read another article on this site.
Ahmed Sultan (India)
Sep 04, 2012 10:31am
Nobody practices sati now a days my dear friend. You sound as if you country is richest country in the world.. Pakistan has more percentage of poor people other. Hamare pass to metro tumhare paas kya hai. Pak Rail ki halat bhi thik nahi hai During cold war era USSR and USA were in a missile race much like we (India and Pak) are now. Result:: USSR collapsed because of weak economy which was made much weaker by missile race, the same may happen to Pakistan. In delhi nobody is american because in india we dont take aid from americans instead we give aid to IMF.
Sep 04, 2012 02:53am
If Jinnah would have lived and lived as Shia -- it is not inconceivable he would have been assassinated by some crazy sectarian fanatic..
Sep 04, 2012 04:14am
It is. 'Opiate of the masses' is the best description I have read so far about organized religion.
Sep 04, 2012 02:47am
Communism feeds on its own followers . Jinnah and the Muslim League started it by saying Muslims were different from Hindus , the entire idea of communal politics is excluding people who are different . Pakistan began by excluding Hindus followed by Ahmediyas and now Shias . It will not end here . We in India have seen this with Akali politics We in India need to be very wary of a similar communal agenda of fundamentalist groups which at its core believe that India is for Hindus alone . God forbid if they were to achieve their goal even partially the next in line will be the Jains and Sikhs after them we among in Hindus have more denominations than any other religion will Radaswamis or Arya Smajis or Santana dharmies or Shivites or Vaishnavs be next . India's greatness lies in itoffee ration for the great diversity of its people .
Sep 04, 2012 06:29am
How will you raise your kids......Sunni or Shia :-)
Sep 04, 2012 06:28am
One, or few??? do you have any idea of the count?
Sep 04, 2012 06:29am
Rehan Ghazi
Sep 03, 2012 03:20pm
@ TVS If you don't know about history of Indian subcontinent then its better that you don't comment at all. Atleast first check your facts. The reality of the matter is that Jinnah was the greatest champion of Hindu-Muslim Unity during the whole British rule of India. He had been championed as the "Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim Unity" by a Hindu poetess Sarojini Naidu. Jinnah only championed Muslim Pakistan from 1939 after he was convinced that Congress would never give Muslims their due right.
Sep 04, 2012 04:52am
The author has very clearly(but briefly) mentioned that this intolerance has spread into regular Pakistani society. So "normal" people have allowed themselved to be poisoned with hatred for any differences with others. They are in a state of "us-versus-them" frenzy now, with the "us" becoming a smaller and smaller group, (mostly based on religion) as each group discovers virtues in their brand of religion. The percentage of their citizens reading Dawn cannot be more than single digits, and even among those you'll find nearly half subscribe to exclusivist religious dogma.
Capt C M Khan
Sep 03, 2012 10:03am
Everyone forgets Pakistanis are fighting the Shia-Wahabee battle of Saudia and Iran. Illetrate, Jobless and corrupt Pakistanis are getting huge numerations from them, for this battle. The route cause of this inhumainty are these two countries and no one can stop them. Good article. Keep on writing.
Sep 03, 2012 10:20am
I am a sunni and my wifey is shia. We love each other very much.
Akil Akhtar
Sep 04, 2012 04:41am
Rightly said, thousands of other majority Pakistanis have been killed but any one from the so called minority is killed and all hell breaks loose. These self proclaimed liberals (Actually anti pakistan) Journalists have a field day.
nirmal maunder
Sep 03, 2012 01:30pm
Jinnah has already been branded kafir by pak taliban who consider themselves as true muslims.
Sep 04, 2012 04:37am
Your question is very relevant. The other day, I was at a Buddhist monastery and sitting there wondered as to why there has been so much bloodshed among Abrahamic religions while south Asian religions and sects within them have coexisted without bloodshed for centuries. This is something we all need to think about in order to overcome deficiencies, if any.
Ahmed Sultan (India)
Sep 04, 2012 10:18am
What do u mean by hindu india, India is muslim too, almost same number of muslims as pakistan have. If hindu india is enemy of pakistan then muslim india too is enemy of pakistan because india is one.
Ahmed Sultan (India)
Sep 04, 2012 10:12am
well said
Sep 04, 2012 11:58am
To all the Shias, Ahmedis, Hindus and other minorities in Pakistan, if you ask for an asylum with India, you would definitely get one. In this way you can live close to your homeland Pakistan, as well as enjoy the safety of India. Don't worry, chances of Hindu-Muslim riots are less than 98% in our country. These riots happen due to the instigation of some corrupt politicians in our country, otherwise our citizens make 100% effort to avoid getting into religious confrontations of any kind. Your Qaid-e-Azam was a great visionary, but His dream has somehow lost the way. Indians do not hate Pakistanis after all, yes there are a few border issues, but those would be taken care of later. Rest your wish!!
Sep 04, 2012 04:23am
It is not just politics, it is a social evil that results in fear psychosis among minorities.
A Sunni
Sep 04, 2012 01:44pm
you are right the Ottomans were not there at that time but Sunni Turks were there.
Sep 04, 2012 06:37am
Pal, take a minute to read what I have written before jumping the gun. I have mentioned that the caste-system is social stratification and not religious, as you wouldn't find much of difference in the religious beliefs of various castes at a particular location. From what I understand, by trying to be monolithic faiths with strict definitions, Abrahamic faiths have developed an acute sensitivity to even minor differences of beliefs within their fold. Hinduism by contrast, being a loose collection of related faiths and beliefs rather than a monolithic block, accomodates all kinds of beliefs in its fold all the way from atheism to polytheism and monotheism. And to your last question, I am not married.. ;)
Sep 04, 2012 06:27am
Alok Naqvi
Sep 04, 2012 06:25am
Read the blog before commenting
Sep 04, 2012 06:25am
What are you talking about my dear? Is that the same sick mentality that justifies these killings? My dear the question is would Jinnah had survived in this country? Mo matter what ever was done in Iran in middle ages. Such sick approach produced these vultures who live on human blood. Why can't you simply condemn killings in Pakistan. Why is it so difficult for killings in Pakistan but so easy for Burma? Did you ever asked what sect did the Muslims of Burma belonged?
Sep 04, 2012 06:23am
Are you by any chance suggesting that Sunni Muslims should stop praying FIVE times a day, and keeping the fasts of Ramadan???
Sep 04, 2012 06:21am
I could not agree more, being Pakistani
Sep 04, 2012 06:16am
Hi TVS, your horse-hindsight needs major repairs, overhauling, and re-alignment for the future...good luck!
Sep 04, 2012 06:08am
Could we stop promoting sectarianism? Quaid was a Muslim & worked for a Muslim homeland. He didn't promote sectarianism and lived & died as a Muslim. I believe all commentators and writer are educated people, so I recommend that we write on bigger subjects involving practical steps to make ourselves stronger as a whole.
Hassan Parvez
Sep 03, 2012 05:56pm
and that's the bitter truth.
Sep 04, 2012 05:49am
dont tell me caste system has ceased to exist in Pakistan. Nothing changed with conversion to Islam. Muslim Rajputs and Khatris would not marry below their caste. Whom are you kidding? Infact caste has been and is being bridged more efficiently in India due to the current affirmative action.
Ahmed Sultan (India)
Sep 04, 2012 05:58am
creation of Pakistan was very good step and i am glad it happened half of the religious fanatics people crossed the border and half of them are still in India
Sep 04, 2012 05:59am
The problem is with ideology, when hate and abuses are a part of deen what can you expect. shias have to hate Sunnies then only they are true shias. I fail to understand how can you pray for some thing good while performing Salah (Nameez) and immediatly start showering hate (Tabarah) to Sunnies (Sahabas). It is upto the Mullahs of shia to clear its creed from such negative and anti God ideas.
Sep 08, 2012 07:35am
Jinnah would have returned to Bombay had he lived long enough to retire. Even in thsie days when Pakistan was actually doing quite well. How sad it must be for people who migrated there in hope of a better life, on hind sigh staying back seems so much better.The ones who went east to bangladesh too will thank their lucky stars now.
Sep 04, 2012 05:37am
no need to explain brother, truth remains a truth and shines even if denied by the whole humanity. Shias have been prosecuted for 1400 years and every wound and every severe blow makes them more resolute. We believe in God and God has promised Justice, the day is not far when justice will be served and it will be served indiscriminately to these barbarians through a "Sign of God"
Muhammad Asif
Sep 04, 2012 11:46am
who know if he wan't?
Sep 04, 2012 09:39am
I think the start of your paragraph made no sense, you name your children after people you respect but regardless you have your own beleifs as long as you are not inciting hatred. Also why are you even talking about Islam..lets not talk about religion at all. IF we do then all we will argue about is who is wrong and who is right..you have your opinion and I have mine..Only Allah knows best ! So let us agree to Disagree and behave as Pakistanis......'Pakistan First' should be the idealogy ! What Faiza has described in her article is the behaviour of animals...they have no religion and if Islam or any part of it makes a man into a bloodthirsty monster such as this..then there should be no religion..!
Sep 04, 2012 08:30am
Your views do not look surprising to me. Widely divergent histories about the indepedence movement are being propagated in both countries. If Indian Hindus were so intolerant, can you explain why hundreds of magnifcent churches and mosques are being constructed acoss India? Or why the percentage of Indian Muslims have only increased since independence? If Hindus in Pakistan are trying to migrate to India there is a reason. If Muslims in India are NOT trying to migrate to Pakistan or Bangladesh, there is a reason. Think.
Sep 05, 2012 09:48am
It is hartening to read this article where the author correctly identifies the real motive behind religious intolerance . If the silent majority both in India & Pakistan realise this truth future of our sub-continent will be bright .
Ritu Shah
Sep 04, 2012 06:11pm
Hello Brother Akhter, I am a Jain from India and I want to clarify that Jains are a minority that is recognized by the Indian Constitution. The Jains are practicing their religion with all freedom and in no way is the community going to be wiped out. If they may not be growing they are definitely depleting. I am not proud of the fact that Jains are a minority. I am proud to be an Indian and would like myself to be recognized as an INDIAN ONLY. You really need to visit India first to see the religious freedom for all religions. It does not matter whether you are a Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or Jain.
Sep 04, 2012 07:14am
I write as a Pakistani, as a Muslim and as a patron of Pakistan...it's sad to say that since the dawn of the Zia Government...with his pro-saudi (Wahabi) decisions and religious alignment, Pakistan has been poisoned and is being poisoned day by day by these so called "Perfect Muslims" who carry out the mass-genocides of Shia Muslims, who blame innocent Christians of Blasphemy and who derail and torture innocent Hindu's in Pakistan. Isn't it time to think about where we stand? Why are we the "TRUE" muslims and the others some lying self-made muslims? From a Sunni Perspective: 1- The Prophet wanted everyone to live in Peace (Muslims, Christians & Jews), given that he made quiet a lot of pacts with the above cited religions at his time. -- On the other hand, we are actively NEGATING the Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAW) by going against his teachings. We waged war's against non-muslims when the Prophet did not, we labeled other's as infidels when the prophet told us to accept them. 2- The Prophet made vows with Buddhist/Christian monks in his time, granting them eternal immunity from Muslims and guaranteeing their safe-guard in the mountains of Sinai (Citing this event - Read Below) -- We on the other hand, "After ADOPTING the hate mongering Salafi/Wahabi TYPE of Islam which was invented in the early 20th century", openly go against the Prophet's teachings. In his last sermon the prophet said that "Today I complete my religion upon you"....wasn't it enough to accept that and STOP making changes in YOUR Islam? In my opinion, this change in Islamic Ideology has lead to this HARD-LINER attitude in us. Why cannot we accept others who share the same belief as us, who pray 5 times a day? Who perform Hajj? Who give regular Zakat? Who fast in the month of Ramazan? Who might be better muslims than us? Who gave us the authority to label the Shia's as Kafirs? Is it because of our continual changing of Islamic teachings? Once we start to answer these questions, only then can we understand the faults in US rather than THEM.
Sep 03, 2012 12:22pm
If a Hindu disapprove a Muslim (or vice versa) over religious belief, I can comprehend the reason behind that. After all, the two religious systems are widely divergent in their worldview and beliefs, and their interactions in history haven't always been exactly cordial. But why a Muslim would disapprove of a fellow Muslim (or brand him 'non-Muslim') over seemingly minor differences in beliefs is something which I do not get. Or for that matter why Catholics would disapprove of the Protestants in medieval (and to a lesser extent, modern) Europe, to quote another example. I do not ignore the existence of the caste system in India (which incidentally is more of a social stratification rather than religious), but if differences in faith or worship were reason enough for a conflict, Hindu groups would have been perpetrating genocides on each other far greater in scope than those in Shia-Sunni or Catholic-Protestant conflicts. Despite the abundance of conflicting beliefs, the only remotely similar episode in Hinduism was the Vaishnava-Shaivite conflicts which were in itself very rare, and is practically absent in the modern Hindu society. Why is intra-faith intolerance a hallmark of Abrahamic faiths? Is it because Abrahamic faiths have an obsession (or paranoia) over whose version of the faith is 'more true', despite so much of commonality in their beliefs? Is it the desire to enforce a unifying identity over all the diversity? I am asking this not for questioning anyone's belief, but just want to understand this seemingly unique phenomenon in Abrahamic faiths.
Sep 04, 2012 07:29am
Bro Javed, this is not a true justice. Before associating anything with Shias we must study them. It more sounds like a Molla talks who accused Shias just for the sake of rivalry. What i have studied about Shia is that hate (tabarah) is not against Sahabas (NaoozbiAllah). It is against the enemies of the family of Holy Prophet (PBUH). Shias love Sahabas (companion of Prophet (PBUH) more than every one else.
rehan khawajgi
Sep 04, 2012 07:28am
we desperately need to change our education system and increase our literacy rate as well, despite being an acute sunni ,i would prefer to argue rather than using violence although there is no need for that too, this is what my education and my religious beliefs taught me.
Sep 04, 2012 07:23am
Dear Miss Faiza, you must admit (after thorough and neutral research of course), the deep rooted hatred involved here against some of the family of the house of Prophet Muhammad (SAW), and Prophet Muhammad
Krishna V
Sep 04, 2012 07:25am
Well You may have my list..but at-least I don't have to live with the worry of survival for the next day .. for the rest of my life.. as you people have...
Sep 05, 2012 03:31pm
Excellent write-up. You depicted the situation very nicely. Sad part is people still try to find justifications for the massacres, be it of Shias, Ahmadis or any minority. Still it's nice to see many people now have the guts to say it like it is. Pakistani will be our home no matter what, I just hope the haters get out soon and leave our country in peace.
Sep 05, 2012 02:12am
It is not a simple story. Sectarian voilance in pakistan is sponsored by some foreign elements who wants to destabilize our country. We should be careful in this matter because some of our country men are playing in the hands of our enemies on the name of Islam. It is responsibility of our Ulemaas and educated youth to come forward and play their roles to end such violence.
Sep 06, 2012 10:05am
Sep 03, 2012 08:45pm
My dear Sister Faeza, I can provide you with the proof of Quaid e Azam being a Shia Ithna Aseri (twelver, or one who believe in 12 Imams), being a Shia KHOJA myself. I can provide you with his membership docs. He was an Ismaili (Aga Khani who concerted to Shia islam). His gusle mayat was performed by the members of our very Jamaat (KHOJA Jamat). Its a fact which every one knows but many deny it because the is security it brings within them, accept it,its not a big deal as he was a Muslim, a Shia Muslim and a Pakistani.
Sep 03, 2012 08:52pm
The religion of peace resorts to extreme violence to keep itself pure and the vast majority remain silent. If any, we see such article once in a while. Other than that, the mahyhem continues in Pakistan, the land of Islam, which is a very peaceful religion. Hmmmmmm! How many more times do we have to use the words peace be upon him, before we actually learn how to offer peace to others?
Sep 03, 2012 08:53pm
100% correct.
Akhter Husain
Sep 03, 2012 11:53am
No definitively not because of hate but because of narrow-minded leader-ship of All India Congress.They should have accepted the Cabinet Mission Plan in 1946.The fear of majority ,that was not prepared to accept the right of minority to share the rule with sense of pride and equality, was another reason.Be clear in your mind.
Sep 03, 2012 10:10pm
Sep 04, 2012 11:16am
Maybe you should learn to read and reason. Did the author blame Jinnah for anything in the article? Reporting the truth out about Shia genocides is not defaming Pakistan - the actions of a few extremists bring the worst name to the nation, not writing about the same. And yes, I think hard-working Shia, Ahmadis, Hindus and Christians will be welcome in India. Even though India has sporadic Hindu-Muslim riots, at least they do not seem to have continuous sectarian killings.
A Sunni
Sep 04, 2012 01:46pm
Mrs. Writer please ask these questions to Mr.Safi Ul-Din the Iranian nationalist and creator of Safavid dynasty, he not only converted Iranian Sunnis to Shiaism by brutal force and genicide, he attacked Sunni republics like Iraq and syrian, turkey and cental asia to spred his idology, while Ottomans were busy tackling europians in eastern eurpose, his force started attacking Ottomans(a sunni empire) from east. This issue is not very simple, Iran is still busy spreading his idology to other Sunnis states which is a great concern to Sunni leaders. They dont want to end up in a situtation like Iraq and Syria. Please read the correct history.
Arslan Khan
Sep 03, 2012 10:34pm
right on!! religion is nothing but an error in primitive thinking.
Muhammad Zeeshan Hussain
Sep 04, 2012 07:15am
The author just wanted something catchy and she associated Jinnah to a Shia rather than a muslim. Shia or Sunni is not a religion, Islam is. So stop this sectarianism. Atleast there should be a law ban on freedom writing about our founding fathers no matter whatever the context is. Let me quote whatever i said by saying: Inna'ddina I'ndallahil islam.
Sep 05, 2012 04:06am
"The truth is that the acts of these uncivilised and inhumane traitors
Sep 04, 2012 12:47pm
You may not be aware that for one dilapidated mosque or church which were demolished by fanatics, thousands have been built afterwards across the country. As for the Gujarat massacre, several Hindu fanatics have been imprisoned for life including the high profile convction of a former state minister and 30 others last week. Other cases are still pending with the court for judgement. Muslims in Gujarat have unanimously applauded the impartiality of the courts and the persistent campaigns conducted by many human rights groups for this.
Sep 04, 2012 11:12am
Dear Mr. Sunni, Please check again history (these days it is very easy to be checked from the net). Fatimid dynasty ended well before the Ottomon dynasty.
Sep 04, 2012 08:05am
And this 'due right' is separate administrative groupings and laws based on religion? Nope, that is a recipe for disaster. Partition was definitely preferable than a non-functional Indian confederation. There are other factors like ethnicity and language that are far more influential than religion in defining the identity of a person in a pluralistic society.
Sep 06, 2012 10:15am
So, those people were taken off buses in Pakistan and killed after being called kaafirs to avenge the alleged act of a foreign king centuries ago? How logical! On a point of fact, Iraq and Syria, when ruled by Ottomans were not a republic, but an empire which is anathema to Islam - whether Sunni or Shia!
Sep 04, 2012 09:13pm
Sam, Your offer is respectfully returned. I fail to understand that why you Indians cant leave Jinnah's ideology alone. I have come to a conclusion that it is an organised effort at your end to ensure that Pakistani's loose confidence in their country. What have you done in your eastern border region against Muslims recently will come to lime light, so will reinforce Indian followings of Mr Ghandi. You for sure followed him in Kashmir. Do you think it is Chankia Kutalia still dominating your foreign policy?
Sep 04, 2012 12:49am
It looks like u forget Babri masjid and Gujrat massacre of Muslims , and burning of churches in India. If that's not rhetoric that doesn't mean it's not happening there. But any of these cannot b a reason to hurt anyone, especially for the one who claims to b a Muslim.
Nadeem Khan
Sep 04, 2012 12:54am
Ask thje muslims of Assam, Gujrat, Bombay, BhagalPur, Kashmir and other parts of India how fortunate they are. Its due to Gandhiji & Nehruji narrow mentality that Jinnah break away from Congress.
Nadeem Khan
Sep 04, 2012 12:56am
Yeah India should also be divided into Assam, Kashmir, Maharashta, Punjab so that the minorities lives in peace k
Nadeem Khan
Sep 04, 2012 01:03am
In the recent past the so called writers are bent upon defaming Pakistan and then open the comments section, when there is a positive news the comments section are closed. What is the link of Jinnah to sectarian killings? If the country is not managed by its rulers properly should we blame Jinnah for it. The so called liberals do not hesitate in blaming the founder and the country and it become a fashion now. I suggest these writers to file for immigration to India and then let us know the results.
Akhter Husain
Sep 04, 2012 03:46am
Islam and nothing else.As regards prayers and fasting ,he may not be regular ,but that has something between him and Allah.
Roger Rao
Sep 04, 2012 07:43am
Concur, Mr. Akhter Husain. Neither his irresponsibility, nor lack of wisdom, cost him anything. Maybe that was the problem. Roger (Indian, Hindu)
Sep 04, 2012 11:10am
All commentators and writers are paid people. They have their rating as who can create more anarchy in the society. Weather it is :- Hamid Mir Najam Sethi Hasan Nisar Javed Chaudhary Faiza Mirza (Still an intern in this race) They dont have any hope for the society in their writings. Grow up intellectuals, give some solution. Find the root cause. Guide the society to harmony rather confusing them.
Sep 03, 2012 10:01am
Thumbs up! @jameslawrens Who cares who funds? no foreign elements pick up the guns and do the actual shootings; these barbarians are Pakistanis! Stop making excuses and see the real problem!
Hassan Parvez
Sep 03, 2012 06:25pm
All educated and enlightened people in Pakistan respect and love Jinnah as an exceptional leader of multiple qualities, but they know very well that he was a Muslim only because he was born in a Muslim family. He had nothing in his charismatic personality to reflect any religion based thinking yet he is projected as a very religious man who wanted to create Pakistan only to protect Islam and the only purpose was to give Muslims freedom of practicing their religion. He is projected by Ulemas and illiterate Mullahs almost as if he was a prophet and we all know that all these Ulemas and Mullahs branded him as "Kafir" when he started the movement of Pakistan in undivided India.
Sep 03, 2012 06:06pm
Very bold comment and introspection.
Sep 10, 2012 06:38am
I fully agree with you:
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 06:10pm
Iraqis and for that matter Arabs are left in an information vacuum they fill with their worst fears. (CBS NEWS)
Sep 03, 2012 12:38pm
I do not agree with you completely and with the story you have mentioned. The reason is the sectarian violence existed in our region even before partition. Both sides Sunni & Shia's used to fight each other and call each other non-muslims. However, target killing of shia muslims has started in recent decade but this never existed before. So the story you told as a boy lived all his life hiding his sect is anything but true in my opinion. I remember when I was growing up there were no issues of target killings of Shia Muslims after identity check. & really why to bring Jinnah's name in it? I don't see a point. Perhaps you are just taking out your frustration on what's happening around which is sad, don't get me wrong. I condemn these killings as you do but tweaking history is wrong. We use to be a sovereign nation with lots of tolerance for each others few years back.
Sep 03, 2012 11:51am
Shabash to the writer. well written. No one to be blamed it is simply an act of barabarism carried out by our own people, and those who say others as KAFIR are themselves are KAFIR as no MUSLIM will kill any other person irrespective of his religion or belief. It is the time for us to seek forgiveness from GOD and to pray for our COUNTRY. as our leaders unfortunately do not have time to look after the innocent killing of people, whether it is in Quetta, Gilgit or in Karachi.
Sep 06, 2012 10:22am
Does all this justify one-sided Genocide of Shia Muslims in Pakistan?
Sep 03, 2012 09:57pm
Jinnah didn't create this. If you know anything about the history of India and now Pakistan/India you wouldn't just spew out ignorant statements. Jinnah (Described as a Great Indian) fought the law for India's independence. Without Jinnah india wouldn't be free. When he realized that a United India would never give Muslims a fair shake (these were the facts back then) he decided the only way to keep India strong was for the two Majorities to have their home. The brothers were simply moving into their own homes to eliminate the poisoned atmosphere that India had with it's Muslim Hindu Rivalry. If you look at his speeches, his intent was clear. Pakistan was to be free for all regardless of Caste and Creed. His early death paved the way for those with the lust for power to take the helm, and with the murder of Gandhi on the other side the chance that either nation would be anything like their founders envisioned faded. In India today it does matter if you are Muslim, Christian or Hindu. You don't have to look but 3 weeks into the past to see. Just because in the two major cities and Bollywood is represented doesn't make the life of 150 Million others to be ok. Pakistanis can see their nation with open eyes and see their troubles, Indians need to wake up and worry about their own problems because there isn't a province or a people there that are not being marginalized. Indian media has a great job in ignoring their own issues and focusing on everyone else.
Akhter Husain
Sep 03, 2012 02:50pm
I respect your views but can not totally agree.I am sure you are well versed with the human history of the world,in general,and the history of India,in particular, which is not that bright either.Once all Indians were Buddhist but they are now a very small community.Where have they gone to?The same had happened to the Jain It is a wave .and will disappear sooner than later.
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 06:06pm
For the ego, self esteem and self image. If the can't be rich they want to be holy. If they cannot gain respect they will make others fear them.
Sep 03, 2012 11:32am
Excellent article, neutrally written the facts and thought provoking , Nice effort Faiza Mirza
Roger Rao
Sep 05, 2012 06:33pm
Have there not been enough of these "single calls" in Pakistan, my friend, to sacrifice lives and "protect" what they believe in? Indeed, M.A. Jinnah may have been a highly honorable Muslim, but my dear Indian-brother, are you being an honorable Muslim, as you hide behind your pseudonym? You may want to read the comment by one Mr. Ahmed Sultan on this board. I am not "disappointed" by you; just sad.
Muslim Khan
Sep 03, 2012 01:10pm
Correction Pradeep! Nation was not born out of hate but it was created among them by their own Mullahs. Worst are those from us who fuel it for their own regional gains and try to conquer what they will never e.g. our neighbors.
dr vimal raina
Sep 06, 2012 12:14pm
you are a bad analyst sir.
Sep 05, 2012 05:41am
It will not help to give example of Safavid. In history you will find so many sunni rullers who brutally killed shias just on the basis of belief. Don't you know people like Hajaj bin Yousuf and Salahuddine Ayoubi etc. It is not wise to use some unfortunate fact of history to fulfill the present era political needs and justify killing of innocent poeple. By the way only Iran is doing some thing, which in your view is unacceptable, other muslim states are spreading the message of love among muslims? Are they not misusing their money and political & religious influence?
Basheer Ahmed Syed
Sep 03, 2012 09:30am
how fotunate are the indian muslims, thanks to ghandiji and nehruji for saving muslims of india,arrogancy does not save had jinnah and co has cool mind and accomodated secular thoughts pakistni muslims would have never faced the situation like this and would have respected in this world still there is time instead islamic republic make secular islamic repuplic
Sep 04, 2012 11:38pm
Faisa,I am thrilled at your courage but please be careful. This behavior is not entirely new,only completely out of control. My father in the 1940's named his four sons without the Syed and Rizvi for the same reason. Fortunately he migrated to East Pakistan now Bangladesh where we grew up with different challanges but never religious intolerance. Keep up the good work.
Sep 04, 2012 10:39pm
Stop taking the Saudi money, stop Saudi Mullahas from entering and preaching Wahabism brand of Islam, Close the Madrsas, stop calling the war on Al Qaeda and Taliban a foreign war and go after all terrorists and their political patrons......and now you may have a chance to save Pakistan.
Sep 03, 2012 10:04am
These groups get funding from Saudis and protection from our intelligence agencies.
Sep 03, 2012 10:55am
Forbidding evil is core of our religion, if we don't raise our voice for oppressed it will be equal of supporting evil. Thanks to author.
Sep 07, 2012 01:19pm
I really don't think the honorable Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the Father of Pakistan, was truly 'secular', and judging from some authentically documented statements, narrations, and biographies of his associates, colleagues, and acquaintances, it is more than just conceivable that he would have quiet overtly claimed himself a Sunni Muslim: Here are a couple of his immortal quotes indicating that very germination and future direction: 1. Come forward as servants of Islam, organise the people economically, socially, educationally and politically and I am sure that you will be a power that will be accepted by everybody. 2. Pakistan not only means freedom and independence but the Muslim Ideology which has to be preserved, which has come to us as a precious gift and treasure and which, we hope others will share with us.
sheikh siddeeque. USA
Sep 05, 2012 07:05pm
Had Mr Jinnah been alive today he would have regretted his decesion for carving a separate homeland for Muslims in India like myself who in foolish enthusiasm supported his ideology and worked for the movement of Pakistan in my younger days.
Syed Zulfeqar Rizvi.
Sep 03, 2012 08:16pm
If a person is Sunni or Shia,he is a muslim.Do not judge by his fasting or praying, Would you please mention here the people killing Shias who are praying FIVE times a day and fasting all Ramadan are Muslims? Where did you Mr.Habib get this Fatwa? Name the person / country.PLEASE. RIZVI.
Sep 03, 2012 02:43pm
Basheer, Pakistan is actually a good thing for India. Muslims would have formed 50% of United India today. There would be a different kind of violence, between Hindus and Muslims. Jinnah by reducing the number by more than 2/3rds did India a great service. Now, both Muslims and Hindus of India can enjoy the benefits of India. Islam is a wonderful Religion and a very politically active ideology. While it is good for other countries, it would have consumed India, very much similar to the way it is consuming Pakistan. Due to its political nature, it will fight for dominance, like it did with Muslim League. Only if it happened today, it would have been lot more bloodier.
Akhter Husain
Sep 05, 2012 07:22am
Very true, we unfortunately live and grow in this very world where various interests play its role to make us what we are as a whole.There is no exception.
Sep 03, 2012 02:41pm
Jinnah ( QAID-E-AZAM MUHAMMAD ALI JINNAH), the greatest man of the 20th Century was a Muslim Only. The discussion of what sect he belong etc, it is useless and fruitless to me. Hindu Nationalists will never accept him as politician who was smarter than Gandhi Ji. We must focus on the mess we are in right now , heavily supported by the enemies of Pakistan, including Hindu India. We will Inshallah get out of this mess,stronger and committed than ever.We are passing through the decisive moments in history and might as well witness the flourished Pakistan ever.
Sep 04, 2012 10:47am
What you sow so shall you reap is an old famous saying, Remember Bhutto started this game when he got all the sects to come togather to decide that Ahmedies are Not Muslims. That was the day that started all this Muslim Non Muslim Crap. No one has the right to decide who is a Muslim or not, Only The Allmighty Allah has that Power. So stop this rubbish about old or ew issue, it is all about Power grab guys.
Sep 03, 2012 09:33am
im glad the writer didnt mention it, what purpose will it serve?? the actual people who r carrying out the attacks r nt outsiders or foreigners, they r Pakistanis... it is high time that we all open our eyes and stop putting blame on others.. we have to educate our children and build a tolerant society, we should condemn all killings of innocent people irrespective of what sect or religion they belong to... once we r strong from with in all foreign or domestic threats can be averted.. God Bless Pakistan...
Sep 05, 2012 03:17pm
Bohat shukria.
Sep 05, 2012 03:19pm
This has been done countless times and all it has done is increase hatred. How about trying to forget the differences, believe what you believe in and let others do the same and accept each other the way they are?
Sep 03, 2012 08:14pm
With illiterate politicians busy filling their coffers and transferring wealth abroad, and giving a free hand to barbaric tribals and religious mulla hordes a free hand to chop 15 people's heads after shooting them? among other daily bomb blasts ,I do not think that any messiah can do any good in Pakistan....India ..maybe
Sep 04, 2012 11:02am
Yes Safavid persecuted sunnis in 15th century but this persecution of people of other beleives started well before that. I will quote just one example from Maulana Maudodi's book. Around 40 AH (30 years after the Prophet SAW) the Caliph commanded to abuse the Cousin and son-in-law of the Prophet (Ali) from the pulpits of the mosques. In Madinah a group of people raised their voice against this who were brutally killed by the governor and their leader was buried alive. So persecution of people who do not agree with the beleive of people in power started long time back and is still going on.
A Sunni
Sep 03, 2012 05:37pm
This shia sunni divide is very old, Ottomans and fatimides used to fight each other and later Ottomans and Safavids of Iran used to fight each other because of this issue. Safaivids even started holy war aginst Ottomans in 1500 just becuse shia sunni issue.
Sep 07, 2012 01:55pm
Dear Roger, first of all thank you for your comments. These are mere skirmishes, and tongue-tip-taste of battle demos, and it is written, that the War is yet to come. Thirdly, I'm a purely Karachi born Pakistani. Fourthly, I don't need to hide behind a pseudonym. To me my pen-name 'Introspection' (Muhasiba or self-inspection), is the very 'objective-messaging' that I want to inspire in the readers, as my actual name probably wouldn't have been very effective. And one should never judge my Islamic or Muslim honor or dishonorability merely because I use a 'nom-de-plume' for my comments and or articles. Cheer-up Roger!
Sep 03, 2012 05:30pm
CAUSE & EFFECT (Mankind never knew tsunami or Global warming because they could not link it)
Sep 03, 2012 10:06am
You are not willing to hear the truth. Mohammad Hanif formerly of BBC said just last night, that the right hand is cutting the left hand, but people say they cannot see the right hand committing crime, rather they say another hand
Sep 03, 2012 10:28am
Sep 07, 2012 01:02am
A real picture of events in pakistan. I salute to the writer and Dawn.
Sep 03, 2012 10:22am
@Abdullah Things have gone so out of control that this so-called 99% Silent Majority is considered complicit. Beaides, if the media does nt show whats going on, how would you know it.
Sep 03, 2012 10:01am
It's unfortunately very typically Pakistani now to blame "foreign hands" for all of our problems. This sectarian hatred is just as home-grown as the people who perpetrate it.
Sep 03, 2012 09:59am
Great article! I am sure if Jinah was alive than he would call himself a Muslim and would not associate himself with any religious sect. Moreover, if Jinnah would have been alive than all these religious extremist (especially Mullahs)would call him as kafra-i-azam (which they already do) or an agent of the Britishers or the Americans. The current situation of the state is real worrisome as all the teachings of Mr. Jinnah have failed regarding religious tolerance, minority and women rights. Sadly, the political leadership and the extremist people give no heed to the teachings of the father of the nation.
Sep 03, 2012 09:55am
The attacks may be funded internationally but the mindset of the common people against the shia community is VERY MUCH homegrown. Stop putting blame on others where it lies SQUARELY with our society.
Sep 07, 2012 02:39pm
Very true, Abbas!
Sep 03, 2012 11:54am
This issue of the paper also carries an article regarding deliberate efforts by the Govt. in including "hate curriculum" in primary and high schools in Punjab and Sindh. In other words, hatred is taught to students at an early level. Everything is deliberately planned. No question of foreigners instigating.
Sep 03, 2012 09:52am
By the way who will bell the cat?
Komal S
Sep 03, 2012 09:51am
How convenient? Looks like external forces have a free reign. Killing Shiites, Balochis Kidnapping Hindus and targeting Christians with Blasphemy cases. Have also heard, Osama is a figment of US imagination, Sep 11 is US/Jew conspiracy, 26/11 is an Indian conspiracy. Looks like Almighty is really testing the land of Pure.
Sep 03, 2012 09:50am
only word coming to my mind on your comment is 'shabash'
Sep 03, 2012 09:50am
sold out media, bashing the very country and spreading hatered, Knowly that the people who kill do not have support to even 1% of population. The article actually showing as if there is shia-sunni war going on. How many times will the writes try to show why the killings are being done in Quetta and the Role of external agents, no one mentions it. Shame on the media.
Moz Rauf
Sep 03, 2012 09:47am
The 'fact's have to supported by compelling evidence and not third-rated conspiracy theories. If you have solid evidence to back-up your claim, I am quite sure you would be heard.
Krishna V
Sep 03, 2012 09:45am
Nice observation that the person who created Pakistan for Indian muslims was a non-muslim (Shia Kafir) himself.. I am sure Jinnah would have regretted the creation of Pakistan, if he sees Pakistan of today..with religious intolerance, religious fundamentalism, religious extremism, terrorism, war on terror, minority persecution, minority-cleansing, feudalism, ethnic clashes, ethnic cleansing, dictatoryship etc etc and the list goes on.....It is time for the saner voices in Pakistan to fight these extremist voices...
Faisal Ali
Sep 03, 2012 06:28pm
Jinnah accepted the Cabinet Mission Plan which warranted the rights of muslims without dividing the subcontinent into India and Pakistan. Nehru rejected it. Abul Kalam Azad banished Nehru for this in his famous book "India Wins Freedom". It was the Indian National Congress government who won the elections in 1936 and then treated muslims of India in such manner that created a sense of insecurity among them and they realized what their future would be. That was the "Parting of Ways". Jinnah once said to famous Indian journalist Kuldip Nayar while answering his question that "It's Mr. Nehru not me who created Pakistan".
Akhter Husain
Sep 03, 2012 12:17pm
Once Jinnah was asked, which sect you follow?the answer was simple and clear,that of prophet he replied.Regarding killings, for one or the other reason,is originating from hunger of power and thirst of blood.If this brings lot of wealth,it is a bonus.
Akhter Husain
Sep 03, 2012 12:20pm
No harm in dreaming
Sep 05, 2012 03:39am
Sir, the writer wasn't discussing ancient revisionist history or made up fantasy, she is discussing the sectarian crisis in Pakistan today, which indeed is perpetuated by militant groups of Wahhabi/Salafi/Deoband or Sunni extremist backgrounds, who inherently condone anti-Shia violence and ideologically both local inspired and foreign Saudi inspired, who also happen to be behind a majority of terrorist attacks within and worldwide. It is indeed quite simple than the irrational twisted narrative of an Iranian bogeyman as far as Pak is concerned.
Sep 05, 2012 09:52pm
The country was formed because one community cannot live with the other community. When the other community is neutralised, another community becomes ' the other community', and so the vicious circle goes on; sometimes it is called ethnic-cleansing. This explains the plight of Hindus, Ahmedis, X'ians, Shikhs, and now is the turn of the Shias. What next!!!
Sep 05, 2012 05:33am
Not true!!! Anyone who wanted a separate state for Muslims where they could fully and freely practice Islam in an Islamic land (pak-dharti; now a world class Nuclear Power and Armed Forces, with millions of dedicated Muslims arrayed to sacrifice their lives to defend and protect it on a single call) of their own, and break away from a
Sep 06, 2012 03:20pm
Jinnah was a Shia, yet the people of this country disregard Shias its just sad.
Sep 03, 2012 04:28pm
It is indeed and billions all over the world are infected, The world would be a better place without the plethora of religions, Open your mind and start thinking: Nobody needs any religion to become a good person, do good deeds and be good to others.
Sep 07, 2012 12:54pm
So why don't they become part of the life-giving Ocean, and dissolve that minority 'fear psychosis', and cleanse themselves!
Sep 06, 2012 10:20am
So the five Shia Muslim vegetable vendors were killed the other day in Quetta because of what Mr. Bhutto did many decades ago? Makes sense?
mehdi habib
Sep 03, 2012 04:04pm
Really? And what sect was that? Did Jinnah pray five times a day? Did he observe Ramadhan? Let us not be hypocrities.
Sep 04, 2012 04:38pm
What do have to say about Hazrat Ali's Assacination?????????????
Sep 03, 2012 10:46am
For a nation born of hate. What else can be expected.
Ritu Shah
Sep 04, 2012 06:12pm
sorry, i meant they are definitely 'not depleting'
Sep 05, 2012 10:50pm
No, what he is saying is that if you are a muslim and pray five times a day don't go and kill people.
Sep 03, 2012 10:46am
A very good article with strong observation, good effort to make other Muslims to realize whether the killing of Shia Muslims is right or wrong? There is percept by the Prophet MUHAMMAD: "The murder of one innocent human is the murder of whole humanity"
Sep 03, 2012 12:42pm
No friend. A grouping of states based on religion as envisioned by the Cabinet Mission plan would have been like putting the axe on the very idea of India. It was just an extension of the two-nation theory, which India can never accept due to obvious reasons. You may find the idea very reasonable from a purely religious view, but it does not augur well for a modern, pluralistic nation state. It is good that the Congress did not accept such blatant religious division. Now you can see for yourself in Pakistan the result of defining religion as the over-arching identity of a nation - Muslims unable to live in peace with fellow Muslims of a different sect.
A Shia Muslim
Sep 03, 2012 10:46am
@Abduallah....I think you are living in a fantasy world!....where everything is goody goody......Mr. Wake up and smell the humas!!!!!....this genocide is going on since the late 80s and had increased even back in the mid and late 90s....now this killing spree has gained momentum again....Thanks to the so-called Silent majority!
Sep 03, 2012 04:05pm
CONFLICT: OPPOSING SOFTWARE OF THE BRAIN LOGICAL VS. ILLOGICAL LOGICAL: One of the functions of brain is LOGICAL ALGORHITHM, an important cognitive function beside other functions. We are born with it. It
Roger Rao
Sep 05, 2012 06:25pm
Thank you, bro. You said it right! Roger
Cyrus Howell
Sep 03, 2012 04:07pm
"Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you." -- Pericles (430 BC.)
Sep 03, 2012 10:07am
Mr. James ! You could be right that the weapons are of foreign origin but what about the hands who using it and bodies they piercing. "Fault is not in our stars but in ours"
Sep 03, 2012 02:51pm
Jinnah called the Direct Action day against the Hindus, today's fundamentalists have just changed the last word- Hindus- with Shias. And, yes, reasoning has changed too. Earlier it was about Muslims, now its about who is not a Muslim. You talk of Jinnah as some kind of pacifist. Don't they teach you all about Direct Action day in school in Pakistan, I am curious?
Sep 03, 2012 12:39pm
Jinnah was an educated man and he cured himself out of religion. He chose to go for a smoke while the masses went for prayers. He worked for social welfare of Muslims because they were plagued by it and was hindering their moral, social and welfare progress, just like the muslims today. What type of nonesense people believe in the name of religion is just mind boggling. How people convince themselves with pseudo science that everything in religion is scientific? Its the intellectual dishonesty and hypocricy on collosal scale. One should really go back to drawing board and think before they class themselves as shias or sunnis, do they really believe buy all the biblical fairy tales ? Think honestly.
Gerry D'Cunha
Sep 03, 2012 03:26pm
all the rotten eggs from India went into Pakistan's basket during independence - see the differences between the millions of peaceful muslims in india and the roudy muslims in pakistan
Sep 05, 2012 12:55pm
mohammad ali jinnah was a parsi shia ahmadi muslim he was not sunni.
Sep 03, 2012 09:22pm
Ha ha! Here comes someone who points to other religions while his own discriminates against lower caste hindus. I want to know from this friend did he marry by any chance out of his catse. Such hypocrites!
Sep 03, 2012 09:32pm
No doubt, religion is a delusional addiction - the sooner it is cured the better it is for everybody. Otherwise keep killing.
Sep 03, 2012 09:39am
Why are your countrymen ready to sell their souls to the devils? From its beginning, Islam became the victim of greed, deceit, hypocracy of its own followers?
Sep 05, 2012 03:58pm
just want to answer your statement of muslim atrocities in north east states of india . nothing has happened there .Some people got killed from both sides it was just a fight between the local people (include 25% Christian as well) and the illegal migrant of Bangla desh and it was not related to religion. But Muslim sees everything from angle that is religion.
Sep 03, 2012 09:49pm
So all the murders and attacks on Shias isn't enough to invite conversation??? It's the journalists fault???? every Pakistani regardless of Creed should be FREE in their nation as was intended. Divide and conquer is how so many corrupt rulers have plundered Pakistan. Until the masses wake up to this and respect each other as equals it's business as usual.
Sep 03, 2012 06:58pm
FAISA MIRZA : madam , i don't know whether you are a shia or sunni but i know you are a humanist and bring up serious social cancer, long untreated otherwise you could not write the true story of human suffering for ignorance. I PROPOSE FOR HUMANISM in pakistan : HUMANIST is a philosophy that usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual's dignity and worth for self-realization through reason IF NOT DONE , THE CANCER WILL SPREAD & DESTROY THE BASIC FABRIC OF SOUTHEAST ASIA NOT ONLY PAKISTAN satya mevo jayate (truth will win) : THE HUMANITY FIRST : REJECT ALL SUPERNATURALISM
Sep 07, 2012 04:57pm
parsi shia ahmadi muslim ? This combination does not exist anywhere in the world.
Sep 07, 2012 04:59pm
Please confine yourself to Pakistan where Wahabi outfits are massacring Shias every day.