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Smokers’ Corner: With, within, without

Published Jan 06, 2013 12:25am


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Over the decades, the 1956 science-fiction film, ‘The Forbidden Planet,’ has been elevated by film critics to be a vintage Hollywood sci-fi classic.

In the sci-fi genre it is sometimes placed right along side director Stanley Kubrick’s 1968 masterpiece, ‘2001: A Space Odyssey,’ as being one of the most intellectually rich sci-fi movies of all time.

‘Forbidden Planet’ takes place in the 23rd Century where a spaceship is sent from Earth to a planet that is 16 light years away to find out what happened to a space probe that was sent to the planet 20 years ago.

On reaching the planet, the captain and crew members of the spaceship find a scientist and his family who tell the investigation party that an unknown force had destroyed the probe and killed the inhabitants of the planet.

After facing attacks from the same unknown force/entity that is largely invisible, the spaceship crew finally figures out that the force is actually the subconscious manifestation of the scientist himself, triggered by a machine invented by him.

The scientist continues to deny this until he is finally convinced that the shadowy entity that is going about slaughtering the planet’s inhabitants is indeed the expression of his own subconscious mind and/or the manifestation of what German psychologist, Freud, called ‘the id’.

The film’s plot has always fascinated me; especially when I have wondered whether the unprecedented spats of violence by religious extremists that have been haunting Pakistan for years now, may be physical manifestations of our own collective subconscious.

This might also explain the inexplicable state of denial or silence that we as a nation usually fall into every time some entity goes on a killing spree in the name of faith.

May be our Dr Jekyll is simply refusing to realise that the despicable, chaotic and evil Mr Hyde is actually an extension of our own being and not some alien force unleashed across our Land of the Pure.

It is as if the figurative demons of hatred repressed deep within our sub-consciousness have suddenly leaped out to become a horrifying, tangible reality.

Laying latent in us have been awkward fantasies about gallant military takeovers and bloody revolutions based on rotating myths of bravado and a worldview that has no room for any grey areas.

Such a state of mind has given birth to a cringing mindset radiating a somewhat delusional sense of chauvinism, patriotism and ideological self-indulgence, but one that also comes attached with a persecution complex and an obsessive-compulsive need to deny and deflect one’s own failures.

Though most of us are only willing to exhibit our quivering religious/sectarian and ‘patriotic’ biases in the shape of the usual knee-jerk rhetoric on the internet and the TV, it won’t be all that wrong to suggest that most of what is harmlessly spilled out as patriotic rants in cyber space or the media, has now found its physical expression.

These are the physical manifestations of the demons of hatred most of us have been nurturing in our minds; demons fed by decades of ‘education’, propaganda or mythical tall tales of bluster and glory that have only ended up conspiring to isolate the Pakistani nation from reality.

We have been carved out and crafted (by the state, the clergy, the media and the class room), as a people who are on a divine mission to safeguard faith from its many (largely imagined and demagogically concocted) ‘enemies’.

We think of ourselves as being the chosen people and (thus) are quick to deny and hide most of our own failings by claiming that, No! These failures do not stem from our bloated perceptions about ourselves.

Instead, to most of us these failings are due to any number of diabolic forces named and numbered and then wrapped in the usual deflective clichés that are spontaneously spouted out by preachers, politicians and patriots out there: i.e. the lingering residue of ‘colonialism,’ malicious designs of ‘anti-Islam/anti-Pakistan forces’, American tinkering and intervention and, of course, democracy, liberalism, secularism…

The truth is, on most occasions than not, it has very much been us and us alone who have brought this country to its knees.

The inflexible, intolerant and gun-totting strain of the faith that was glorified from the 1980s onwards gradually began making a number of us believe that what we had (peacefully) been practicing as our religion before this was perhaps wrong.

We began to doubt our faith the way it was. The crises turned itself into a daunting dilemma of identity. Subtlety in matters of faith went out the window. The new Pakistani society started to judge this subtlety as a sign of weak faith. Consequently everything according to us and our faith became loud and pertaining to sheer exhibitionism.

Our faith’s spiritual dimensions were clipped away and it was made to freeze and lose its evolutionary and progressive spirit. It then became just another political and social ideology. A lumbering dogma.

Such a dogma means nothing spiritually to an individual. But it does detach him from the progressive and evolutionary character and body of the faith. Add politics to this mixture and you have a disaster in the making.

The violence that this country faces today in the name of faith is not very different from the violence that our state, politicians, media, and text books have instilled in each one of us.

Indeed, when we sit quietly looking in horror at images on TV of the carnage caused by a suicide bomber on our soldiers, policemen, politicians and common civilians, isn’t this a deep, dark reflection of all that was instilled and nurtured in our own heads?

That is, the idea of faith not as a spiritually, intellectually and morally enriching path, but as a demagogic, politicised weapon to retain social, political and economic power. The power to exploit.

The day we finally realise that God alone has the wisdom and right to determine and judge the level and status of one’s faith is when we may finally reign in the monster that is largely a horrendous and unwitting manifestation of our own self-righteousness and religious biases.


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Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and He is also the author of two books on the social history of Pakistan, End of the Past and The Pakistan Anti-Hero.

He tweets @NadeemfParacha

The views expressed by this writer and commenters below do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.

Comments (152) Closed

abbastoronto Jan 07, 2013 01:20pm
Many thanks for your kind words. People are emotional, and their response to a rational arguments are simply their wishful fancies. But the truth shall set us free.
ComparativeReligionStudent Jan 06, 2013 02:52pm
@Cynical:?That way no holy Book is better or worse than the others...? Sorry, but you are mistaken. Perhaps you have not read the scriptures. If you had, you would know that the Qur?an explicitly and categorically forbids the killing of the 'other' much less command their extermination. No other religion can make that claim. I could list quotations and references to substantiate this fact. In fact The Holy Bible, OT & NT, the scriptures of Judaism and Christianity, explicitly requires the total annihilation, extermination, eradication and complete eraser of the 'other' down to its roots. And I would appreciate if you, to substantiate your claim, could point me to just one instance where the Qur?an requires killing of the 'other' except in self defense. Please stay in context and not just 'cut and paste' from a secondary polemic source.
Cyrus Howell Jan 06, 2013 12:58pm
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster." -- Nietzsche
Moen Jan 08, 2013 09:09am
There is a rape in India every two minutes. This multi-rape got out of hand and the girl died...and the cat was out of the bag this once. 23rapes have happened since than, Deec16, in Delhi alone. Ever hear of them?
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 07, 2013 09:54am
My paternal grandfather was a small time businessman and a farmer.My Dad was a professional and I graduated from a government college in education was subsidized by the government..our founding fathers like Jawaharlal Nehru had the wisdom to nurture secularism and a great tertiary education. India,has given me a FREE world class education and a very sound value system. Today I walk with my head held high in a well developed Western country proud of my origins and proud of the promise India holds out,and proud of her efforts to forge ahead. In a small humble way I would do my best to return something to my country of birth-be it investment,or funding a charity or sharing my expriences in the West so India might benefit from it..I speak not just for myself but for thousands of Indian professionals who share my sentiments. My compatriots from my old alma mater meet every year in Long Beach California and we have try to put into action some plans regarding investments or charities in India. This is to counter shameless disinformation here.
abbastoronto Jan 07, 2013 01:17pm
You can not pass off as Indian with a Pakistani pp.
Naresh Sharma Jan 07, 2013 04:11am
we atleast protest on rapes but what did you do when Malala got shot... whole world protested against it but Pakistan never protested...
AdviceFrom__USA Jan 08, 2013 09:43am
@abbastoronto: ?Yes, I am thinking of getting a gun here in the US? WLA. Good for you. But using a semi-auto is very different from military small arms. I had experience with all those, preliminary qualification in sniper and qualification in biathlon where you run on mountain ridges and take down targets as they pop up for a few seconds. I was a natural there as my heart beat was around 45 at rest and 65 running up a hill with gun, back-pack, and ammo. However developing command of a semi-auto took 6months, shooting practice every day and thousands of rounds expended. I could then take down multiple moving targets in dark dim light without sighting...a muscle memory reflex accuracy. I had to just think it in and the bullet went there as if on its own.You will know what I mean when you try...the gun becomes like your hand, finger, pen, a tool. You can write in the dark can't you? Recall Raymond Davis. He was good. Very good. Too bad I was not there.
Oh Yeah! Jan 06, 2013 11:01am
Was any one being blamed? Only historical and scriptural facts were put in perspective and some errors pointed out and corrections made.
RSS Jan 08, 2013 08:15am
Talk about yourself, not for others.
ComparativeReligionStudent Jan 06, 2013 04:34pm
@Cyrus Howell: ?Since all good things are promised to Muslims there is tremendous anger over how the people of a lessor god ended up with the material world? Your statement is inaccurate. Please don't make up stuff about Islam and Muslim beliefs. There is no lesser or greater god in Islam. Only one God of all creation. All are required to seek His bounty by effort, prayer, and grace---irrespective of their religion and belief. And that some are tested by poverty and others by this world. And God's bounty is not restricted to one people or religion. Rain, air, and shine are given to all. There are no ?chosen people? in Islam. All people are equal except for their behavior and character. This is all written in Islam's primary scripture: The Qur?an. In Quranic time perspective, this temporal life of the world is less than a ?blink of an eye?. In the next world, eternal life, comes the result of the test and the accounting of ones behavior...for this reason wealth, comforts, and pains of this world are fleeting and of minimal value to Muslims'.
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 06, 2013 02:13pm
Time for Muslims to realize that the "spiritual" is between the Creator and his creation not a subject where AK 47 wielding thugs enforce the "spiritual" in roadside market place shootings or bombings? Time for Muslims to think of things temporal -like science and technology- to improve industrial and agricultural production? And contribute to welfare of humankind... Time for Muslims to STOP greeting strangers with that almost certain-to-be-asked question " Are you a Muslim?"
Does not matter Jan 07, 2013 04:11am
Well so you must know that Pakistan Industry is having nightmares about Indian companies flooding the Pakistani markets and that is why they are so opposed to MFN status to India and so your argument about Islam being a supporter of trade does not hold truth , at least in case of Pakistan so may be Pakistan is not "true" Islamic country. I also don't understand why do you have this misunderstanding about US and Pakistan being natural allies or having same psych because the notion of freedom in US is totally different of what is perceived in Pakistan. Whatever freedom is left in Pakistan would be under threat once NATO leaves the area and likes like JI and TTP will shake hands to take over. For situation between China and India, i think if such a large trade is at stake, both will not try to do something foolish to destroy that and may be India can leverage it against Pakistan to pursue China to shy away from the friendship which is "deeper than the sea and higher than the Himalayas". And please don't think Pakistan did anything to trounce former USSR. It was US money and Afghan fighters which led the USSR retreat. Pakistan just played a middle man just like it is playing now although playing a double game this time. And finally , India may still enjoy the 30 year party but would the Pakistani economy survive that long? It may still play its nuclear blackmail game to get some more aid but eventually West would stop it and China can not give much ride on its back.
Ahmed Jan 06, 2013 07:57am
A new high for NFP - beautifully written, thought provoking and fascinating.
Cyrus Howell Jan 06, 2013 12:47pm
The Islamic country Pakistan needs to base itself on is Indonesia. Study it's history and politics. They had their ethnic war in 1965. About fifty years prior to the trouble Pakistan is in. Indonesia has almost totally cleansed their national government of corruption (after the government's ruling families became helpless and paralyzed the whole country). What makes Malaysia and Indonesia different are their Chinese populations which do not exist in Pakistan.
sal Jan 06, 2013 10:35am
An excellent piece.
S Jan 06, 2013 10:35am
it is known as Indian bomb in India. just saying.
anil Jan 06, 2013 08:30am
@Nadeem Paracha Only Education and exposure can change the mindset of Muslims . Similarly exposure to other progressive community can make them believe where actually they are . This phenomena is not only there in Pakistan , but almost all countries where Muslims live . Islamic countries like Turkey and Malaysia are model Islamic countries because they are educated. Some other factors like tolerance and acceptance of criticism should be injected to their society.
JustSaying Jan 06, 2013 07:59am
Far more true of India with its hindu bomb and than Pakistan.
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 07, 2013 09:35am
Indians feel very very proud of the country of their origin....India is making headway and Indians are more than aware of it. My nationality might be Canadian but I am more than proud of the country of birth and upbringing India..and I am a professional in midst of recertification in Canada.
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 06, 2013 04:30pm
It has been snowing of late in Toronto...the nice thing about Canadian winter is the centralized heating in all buildings and great winter clothes which make the winters bearable. Things that don't exist in Pakistan........!!!!!
Raman Jan 06, 2013 03:13pm
Please explain what you found "excellent"in his piece?
Raj Jan 06, 2013 02:17pm
This is misplaced comments. Forget about Hindu . You might be knowing when will muslin will realize that?
Yemeen ul Islam Zuberi Jan 07, 2013 04:13pm
Thought provoking.
Zany Jan 06, 2013 08:03am
Your comment does not reflect facts.
abhi Jan 09, 2013 09:39am
@abbastoronto very entertaining post..
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 03:05pm
Oops. The second Catholic Fascist Portugal should be Catholic Fascist Spain. Apologies.
Syed Bilal Jan 07, 2013 02:13am
You mean the true Islam or Pakistani Islam?\
Ip Jan 07, 2013 04:19am
Admire your optimism, but reality is cruel, Mr Abbas from Toronto. The world does not give you credit for what you were in 1947, or in some mythical age of glory. It judges with you, deals with you, based on where you are TODAY, and where you are going tomorrow. I'm surprised that with your claimed businessman-engineer background, you are so susceptible to juvenile nationalistic bluster on chain emails. You seem like an intelligent person. Don't you think it will help the cause of your homeland better if you were to stop living in fantasy-land, and work with competent, pragmatic people in Pakistan to face reality, stop living in denial, and take concrete steps, however small they may be, to help pull up your country by the bootstraps? There are many in Pakistan who face down the muck of local politics, who stand up to fundamentalists, who risk their lives, their money, their reputations for the cause of their suffering countrymen. You can be part of that effort. Instead of quoting silly emails.
Faraz Jan 07, 2013 06:19am
Article is good.. comments even better.. especially of abbastoronto regardless of high number of down thumbs
Cynical Jan 07, 2013 01:03pm
Non-westerners did more or less of the same things whenever opportunity presnted itself. This 'holier than thou' mindset is lazy ego massage.
Does not matter Jan 07, 2013 01:09pm
Culturally, Pakistan has nothing to offer. Entire culture is borrowed either from India and now from Middle east.So in nutshell, "Indian" culture is pretty much what you have in their. Secondly in India, a woman does not need 4 male eye witness to prove the incident of rape with her.
Cynical Jan 07, 2013 01:00pm
Agreed, temporal life is short by any time perspective (with or without Quran). But have you seen the inside of an 'eternal life'. or met someone who has been there?
Haider Ali Jan 06, 2013 01:59pm
Depends on what you mean by education. If it is as distorted as is taught in Pakistani schools, then it will not lead to any change.
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 01:59pm
Wow. So many thumbs down. But no rational refutation of the facts and argument yet. Someone wishes us ill.
Kamal Hussain Jan 06, 2013 07:21am
NFP and his fellow citizens need to go through a process of self-actualization - look into their inner selves and come to terms with themselves. All that talk about "gallant military takeovers and bloody revolutions" - something common in the subcontinent - is one manifestation of an inexplicable desire for a cathartic bloodletting at the gore level of the Aztecs in the pre-Cortez era in Mexico and the 1913 Bolshevik Revolution in Russia. There is the yearning that such a catharsis will allow the nation to turn on a new leaf. In spite of 'ad nausem' pleas by this commentator, NFP is yet to recognize that the society he lives in is just one layer of subterfuge. There is an uncanny resemblance of NFP?s lot to Germans in the 1930s. Even a highly cultured and industrialized society such as the Germans can fall prey to evolutionary regression. Such erudite thoughts are only good for a tiny section of people and unlikely to reach the masses that are now fairly radicalized and immune to intellectual self-flagellation. The nostalgia of the Moghul era has not faded in this section of the subcontinent - people are yet to recover from two hundred years of British subjugation and humiliation.
Cyrus Howell Jan 06, 2013 12:33pm
It is not so much a confrontation with the rest of the world as it is the acute ability to personally anger other people. Human Beings do not judge by the group, although demagogs may try to point us in a different direction. Although Islam teaches what our relations should be with others it also demands certain criteria must be met which actually excludes others. Since all good things are promised to Muslims there is tremendous anger over how the people of a lessor god ended up with the material world. Muslims concentrated on the spiritual world, while Westerners rolled up their sleeves pioneered and built modern cities invisible from the mango grove and the cabbage patch. Envy has become the acid, the poison the masses are drinking. They are a spiritual people but they do not understand why they cannot have more of everything.
abbastoronto Jan 08, 2013 03:22pm
Many thanks for the advice. But in an urban setting the idea is not take someone down, but provide deterrent so that the other guy refrains from using his.
george Jan 07, 2013 11:31pm
If you ask Zakir Naik, muslims invented everything on this planet. From nuclear bomb to aeroplanes, it was the west who stole those muslim ideas and took all the credit. Other societies have evolved and adjusted with the times, but the Islamic world has remained static and is a still a prisoner of the past.
PaktoonJustice Jan 08, 2013 12:36am
You may not be aware of it but the Pakistanis did protest, including popular leaders and the government. Also the alleged perpetrator?s fiancee was arrested and given special 'treatment' in secret police captivity. Goes without saying the now well known established fact that Malala was/is under the tutelage of and is working for foreign alphabet agencies. And rape is in your culture just as revenge and justice is in ours. We tried to stop 'Drone Lady's' propaganda against our innocent children.
ghaleezguftar Jan 07, 2013 01:00pm
this blog seems to be quite popular in India. whenever there is a post, which is commentable in DAWN, indians swarm in like bees to rate up what they like and dont miss any opportunity to bash Pakistan and Muslims and glorify the country with the most poor people in the world.
Shehzad Mohsin Jan 06, 2013 04:48pm
Any one interested in a much wider perspective on why people choose to wear religions on their lapels and get more interested in minutiae of their religious practices rather then the principles, should read "Battle for God" by Karen Armstrong; a though provoking book. .
ComparativeReligionStudent Jan 08, 2013 12:41am
@Cynical: Yes. Enough said.
Pak-Defender Jan 06, 2013 03:23pm
No ego here. But simple truth. Sure did stop your arrogant 'Cold Start Doctrine' in its tracks...all 10,000 huffing and puffing tanks of them.
M. Salman Nazar Jan 06, 2013 09:53am
Please check ur details and References, Freud was Austrian not German. To learn more about the Id, please follow the comic strip "Wizard of Id" it is almost like Pakistan today,.....
Z Jan 06, 2013 03:26pm
Bluster or Hindu bomb...whatever in a name S...nake!
Zoee Jan 08, 2013 09:14am
That was some massaging. Good response Defender. On target.
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 06, 2013 02:30pm
Rational..well Sigmund Freud talked of Id the mass of urges present in every individual,the Super Ego which checks this mass of primitive urges and the conflict which results and how the Ego is a manifestation of this resolved conflict. Put in simple means the face an individual presents to the wider world- how he has learned to deal with unpleasant and socially unacceptable drives. Now, I think the thumbs downs you have received shows that resolution has not been of socially acceptable form..and invokes negative emotions in others! That is my take on the matter...a rational take!
Ursilla Jan 06, 2013 02:30pm
Excellent article.
Zamzama Jan 08, 2013 09:16am
As you can see they are trying to rate you down too. No matter, a hundred thousand lies or more cannot undo a single truth.
Tribal Manto Jan 07, 2013 06:01pm
I mean The Pakistani version(s) of Islam. the so called the pseudo versions.
Liberal Sindhi Jan 06, 2013 08:38am
As a Liberal Sindhi of minority sect of Islam, my view of Pakistan's future remains positive only because of individuals like NFP, Najam Sethi, Sana Bucha and Javed Nusrat. If they go, who will defend the liberals, the nationalists, the minorities in mainstream media?
Does not matter Jan 06, 2013 04:19pm
I think you did read about the other civil wars in other regions but you missed the point of the kind of society who started these civil wars or revolution. I know at least about France and Russia where these revolutions were started by common mass against the rule of monarchs who were sucking the lives out of the poor people to live royally. In US, the civil war was the result of the conflict between land owners and industrialists over the slavery.In Pakistan, it is a different kind of civil war. Its not for the good of the common people but a power struggle where militant forces want to topple the democratic government to force Sharia law. The example you should compare the Pakistani case is with the case of Afghanistan or Africa and not West.More over, in the civil wars of West, there were no vested interest of foreign governments, which may not be the case in Pakistan.
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 04:28pm
... Killings at will, Bhat-Khorry. Corruption, Kidnappings, in-effective and corrupt Police ,Hypocricy , vicitmisation of minorities ... LOL. You must be describing life here in America. A few months ago we were robbed at gunpoint while getting gas on my way to driving a friend to the airport at night. I presume it is similar in Karachi. BTW your types will be happier in Canada, much more peaceful than America. It is also more civilized. People value societal peace. But it is also a police state, like UK or India. No freedom.
Q&A Jan 06, 2013 08:29am
'Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." [Marcus Aurelius] Never more true of opinion projected here.
FactCheck Jan 06, 2013 08:24am
?...cathartic bloodletting at the gore level of the Aztecs in the pre-Cortez era in Mexico...? Aztecs sacrificed one or two people per year/season in the name of their Pagan gods and good harvest. Cortez et al slaughtered every single male of every tribe in South America: Man, boy, baby. He and his armadas raped and enslaved every women and girl in the South American Continent. This was done in accordance with commands given in his Book: The Holy Bible. Almost the same was done in North America where 95% of native tribes were exterminated as percommands of same holy book. Historical truths put things in perspective.
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 01:55pm
Talking of Freud and psyche ? people do not choose their national symbols from thin air. They manifest and externalize the inner self. The animal representing Pakistan is not a lion (England, old Iran), but Iqbal?s Shaheen (eagle roaming free above the clouds), the same as America. We both value individual freedom over societal peace. Judahism?s symbol is the star of David (closed). They are shrinking. Christianity a cross (open). They are growing. Islam is the crescent (open and ever expanding ? limitless growth). We are growing. India?s flag has a wheel ? a closed symbol. Pakistan is star and crescent ? aiming high and permanent growth and evolution. Today, Pakistan is going through a double Civil War. First for transition from agrarian/rural to industrial/urban one. Second from internal economy to a worldwide global trading economy. For the first Civil war we need more efficient agriculture (to free men from land), scientific education, urbanization. For the second we need more individualism, a global mentality, a worldwide network, and move away from Democracy to Republic. Republics of Germany and France have distanced England the Democracy. America the Republic is more dynamic and world-open than Canada the Democracy. People?s Republic of China has outclassed India, the largest Democracy in the world (yes, yes, it does say republic in its name ? lol. You can not have a republic with caste system, stratified society). Those Pakistanis gaga over India?s growth should ponder where is India in the second Civil War. In South Asia, Pakistan has been the trend-setter, the flag bearer. India a distant laggard. Some Pak Firsts: 1. Free Enterprise - Pakistan 1947, India 2000 2. Free Trade - Pakistan 1947, India 2000 3. Alliance with the West - Pakistan 1950, India 2000 4. Friendship with China - Pakistan 1960, India ??? 5. Distancing from Socialism - Pakistan 1947, India 1990 6. Distancing from dying Corporate Capitalist West - Pakistan 2000, India ???? India will mentally start stepping into globalization some 50 years from now. Pakistan's border's are secure. Nuclear Pakistan has stalemated India. Iran and China are friendly. India's main ally, godless Soviet system in no more. But India loses sleep over China, and even Pakistan, LOL. Pakistan already has an individualist mentality, a worldwide network of 10,000,000 diaspora fully involved into the Pakistani system. Their wealth may very well exceed that of Pakistan, ready for investment as returns outside plummet and peace returns to Pakistan in near future. Pakistan will shoot like a rocket, and soon. You want to bet!!!
Mr.T Jan 06, 2013 09:37am
@ Mr. Paracha you should be on TV it's more effective then writing column. If you want to use your ability then use it 100%...
Mr.T Jan 06, 2013 09:29am
You relate well the movie The Forbidden Planet. And there are many horrible movies which can be related to Pakistan. Now your end column says we realize God alone take out of this misery but WHY, people don't want to change they want their leaders to save them, look at every jalsa press conference meeting there are always people with corrupt politicians they are not worshiping God, their savior is their party leader not God. So how can god save them ?
Raj Jan 06, 2013 02:38pm
Reality check . Where is pakistan now in 2013 stand in all the 6 first you mentioned above?you will get your answer and still you don't want to realize then you are allow to live in your fantasy world!!! Pakistan GDP is less then Maharashtra state of India
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 02:39pm
Kamal Hussain Sahib: AOA Muslim look into their inner selves has been neglected for 1,400 years for rational reasons. But time has come to face it squarely. After our Prophet AS died Islam split in two factions. One wanted to continue the Secular Republic of Medina ? rule of the learned, helping the poor and the weak, but the other wanted conquest and glory theorcratic Kaliphate. Maulana Maududi has ably detailed this spiral downwards in his book Khilalaft o Malookiat. The laws of Mohammedan Islam were conceived optimally for the land-poor, resource poor, advanced trading economy of Arabia. But when Muslims went on an unwise and needless conquest rampage, they found that the world around them was still backward and Agrarian where the Gospel of Jesus was more optimal. So Koranic Islam became more or less irrelevant and Islam had to adapt downwards, hence the lacklustre performance of the Islamic civilization. But now with Globalization and Trade we are entering the era where Islam will be the natural religion globally. The world today is Mecca 7th century writ large. Therefore, the old wounds of Islam are being re-opened and resolved. Do we want a Secular Republic of Medina of our Prophet AS, or a Theocratic Kaliphate? And Germany and Europe. From 11th century land ran out and trade became necessary. Overpopulated Europe could not feed itself onward. The Crusades adventurism worsened the matter. There were 100 famines in 75 straddling 1300 AD. And when in 15th century the Ottomans blocked the trade routes altogether, desperate Europe turned to organized violence to survive. Says so factually the West?s Prophet of Doom Samuel Huntington: " .. The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion, but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact, non-Westerners never do ? ?? The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order, p. 51. .. With new routes and new lands Europe survived for 200 years until their own white colonists booted them out of the new lands (Americas). Milking non-white colonies paid the bills for another 100 years. But by 1900 Europe again could not feed itself. So, it had to kill 120,000,000 of its own in WWI, WWII, Concentration camps, and gulags, plus allegedly 6,000,000 of non-European race who was held responsible, rightly or wrongly, for Europe?s economic woes. The 31 years of carnage (1914-45) in Europe that killed 1 in 4 was the ultimate inter-Christian rivalry between largely feudal Catholic Axis powers and largely trading Protestant and Orthodox Allies Powers (barring occupied lands). Axis Powers Catholic Germany Catholic Italy Catholic Pope Catholic Fascist Portugal (sympathizer) Catholic Fascist Portugal (sympathizer) Catholic French Canada (sympathizer) Etc. Allied Powers Protestant Britain Protestant America Protestant English Canada Protestant Australia Protestant Denmark Protestant Netherlands Orthodox Russia Etc. Almost all Nazis were rabid Catholics, and the Pope was with them. The trading sect won over the feudal. The same will happen in Pakistan.
Aamir Jan 07, 2013 12:14am
I thoroughly enjoyed the article and for a change, I enjoyed the comments even more. We know how histories are written. We have to look at the end result. We ignore to read anything negative and thrive on half baked historical glories. We must stop blaming others and try to make changes within ourselves to make our society an example. As long as we play being victims, we will never accept responsibilities and we will never grow up.
Desi Jan 06, 2013 03:45pm
eer... hows the weather in Canada?? bet its better than the weather in Pakistan.... if not why the hell are YOU ,..... yes YOU not back home??? baath kartey hain!!
Cynical Jan 06, 2013 09:17am
True or not, it definitly massages your ego.
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 06, 2013 11:13pm
Canada is NOT a police state and that goes for India and UK. Canada is liberal to point of a fault,where immigrants are welcomed with open arms and the government tries it's best to ease the pain of transition. I immigrated from India about six years back and I can assuredly say that Canada is one of the nicest places to immigrate to.... Your inner conflict seems to be as apparent as sun at high noon!!!!!
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 06, 2013 08:52am
A lumbering dogma...that explains it all. This leads to stultifying inertia and nothing more. This inertia is more than evident in lack of fresh ideas in governance,science and technology,in education and in business.... Hope the Muslim world find's it's feet in fresh ideas and stops the confrontation with rest of the world!
AHA Jan 06, 2013 01:36pm
At least those 'Hindus' were protesting in support of the rape victim. And what do we do here in Pakistan??? And BTW, how is your comment (and therefore my response) relevant here at all.
Rajesh Jan 06, 2013 02:14pm
You are a product of the Forbidden Planet abbas
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 04:06pm
Capt C M Khan: AOA Rosy picture? I am an engineer businessman not a poet. I have my two feet on terra firma. But rather than be personal, please point out specifically to the fact or argument to which you object. Pakistan is not a country, it is a System. We the Pakistanis abroad are very much part of it. I sometimes visit 6 times a year, and not only in the large cities. Incidentally, I note that my Indian colleagues here in Canada/USA do not feel themselves part of India or the Indian System as we Pakistanis do. Pakistan is going through an unavoidable and necessary internal conflict but will emerge out of it more aligned to globalization and free trade. Times are hard, but you do not make an omelet without breaking a egg, In this internal ideological re-alignment, Pakistan is way ahead of all other Muslim countries (yes, Turkey, Malaysia et al), and somewhat 50 or more years ahead of India that is not even aware of what new social contract is required for globalization and free trade. Wassalam
ihtisham Jan 06, 2013 08:48am
i guess Freud was an Austrian.
Capt C M Khan Jan 06, 2013 03:51pm
Mr Abbs of Toronto....Anyone living on his past is like a POTATO,,,most of him is undergroound (e.g. Shaid Afridi). Pakistan my country where Killings at will, Bhat-Khorry. Corruption, Kidnappings, in-effective and corrupt Police ,Hypocricy , vicitmisation of minorities is must visit and stay for a year in small towns to big towns of each province before painting such a rosy picture.
Cynical Jan 06, 2013 09:13am
Don't blame the book. Those who slaughtered were not the true followers of the Book. Blame the slaughterers, not the Book. Haven't you heard it before?
Does not matter Jan 06, 2013 04:06pm
Let me give you an alternative perspective 1. Free Enterprise: Pakistan 1947, India 2000. Result, not a good local industry In Pakistan. Largest export is textile that is also because of due to concessions provided by EU and US under aid clauses. While India invested in infrastructure and made sure local industry grow up to become serious contender in international market. 2. Free Trade: Pakistan 1947, India 2000. Still Pakistan not able to give MFN status to India. 3. Alliance with west: Pakistan 1950, India 2000. You may call that alliance but to the rest of the world, it looks like dependency. Result, US can drone Pakistan as it wishes.Many governments in Pakistan needed US approvals. Pakistani budget needs US aid to run. 4. Friendship with China: PAkistan 1950, India ???. Result India and China has a trade of more than 60 Billion dollar. China-Pakistan trade= ?? $. 1971 War, China kept itself detached and did not support Pakistan. It was US who mobilized the navy to contain India. 5. Distancing from Socialism: Pakistan 1947, India 1990: Result, Pakistan is still ruled by big land owners who controls a large number of rural working class people. 6. Distancing from West: Pakistan, 2000. India???. Are you sure Pakistan is distant from West? If you are so dependent upon the Aid and money sent by Diaspora living in west, how can you be distant? Again, may be it is not you but the West moving away from Pakistan as it now understand what sort of trouble Pakistan is.
observer Jan 06, 2013 01:41pm
Excellent article. Usual great stuff from NFP. Kudos.
AHA Jan 06, 2013 01:39pm
I think in the next 10 to 20 years, Turkey will already a fundamentalist country, and Malaysia would become far more intolerant than it is now.
Agha Ata (USA) Jan 06, 2013 04:08pm
It all comes from our history, when mighty caliphs ruled over non-Muslim Europe. This empire lasted for almost a thousand years. Muslims introduced the concept of Algebra that made Christians develop the pointed arch that graced Europe?s impressive Cathedrals, where thrones of bishops were placed. Besides Muslims introduced rice, apricots and paper. Muslims gave them Geometry and they gave them Chemistry and many other arts, and Christians in Europe used it, and now it is shame for Muslims; that glory and that splendor is so hard to forget and the Muslims, have never forgiven ourselves for having lost all that, and now when Europe has developed and made an unchallengeable progress, now Muslims feel that it all happened to them and not to Muslims because they were not good Muslims or good soldiers of Caliphs. . They tried to forget it for hundreds of years, but it is still there in their sub conscious!
Rao Jan 07, 2013 04:39pm
Same thing happened to me....I was trying to strike a conversation with a Bangladeshi worker on a public bus in Singapore.....The first thing he asked "Are you Indian Muslim"...When I told him I wasn't , he wasn't interested in continuing the conversation.
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 09:52pm
Omigod. Another pissing contest. Muslim breast thumping vs Hindu bravado. The fundamental question of existence is Survival, Growth, and Evolution, and every people try to better their chances by developing science and technology. Necessity is the mother of invention. Knowledge we create in embedded in the economy around us. The Hellenes (from Athens) had a Trading economy, so their earlier civilization, and then after their Renaissance in Europe, all inventions were tied to the need for trade and travel. Islam is a special case. It began as a Trading civilization (Mecca like Athens was a trading economy). But it expanded far more than Athens, and the new lands it acquired (Egypt, Syria, Turkey, India) were not trading but agrarian. So it had to adapt backwards. Many of its inventions were use in agrarian economy and some were for trade and travel. India and China had agrarian economies, so their math and science were tied to agriculture, and of not much use to the advanced civilizations of the Greeks and Islam. Islam began as a Secular Republic in Medina, but later the theocratic Kaliphate that morphed into Monarchy was the main culprit of the later Muslim debacle. There were exceptions. In Egypt in 970, the Republic minded Fatimides set up the first modern secular university al-Azhar in Fustat (Cairo) giving instruction in natural sciences, medicine, law, and ethics, well before the first religious European university in 1088 (like 5th century Indian Nalanda that was also religious). Al-Azhar's output in 11th century was secular. But the Famed Saladin, based on a Fatwa of Al-Ghazzali that research on matter was ungodly, shut Al-Azhar and re-opened it as a madrassah that it remains to this day. Muslims today are not prepared to blame this hero for their present state of ignorance. I predict that with Globalization and Free Trade, and Islam being the natural and the only religion for this economy, Muslim innovations will outstrip those of others by far. The Hellenes are on a banana peel, and India is still mired in agrarian Hinduism (the penetration of the West is still skin deep). So Muslims and Hindus, beat it. What counts is not the past, but the future. Let the best man win.
Rao Jan 07, 2013 04:31pm
Hi Feroz.....This abbas must have been chucked out of his job in Toronto....Now his full time job is defending Pakistan against Indian slander with his outrageous theories.
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 08:47pm
Does not matter & dhananjay: Greetings The French Revolution was a fight between industrial city against feudal monarchy. The American Civil War was between industrializing North vs feudal South. And do you mean to say that foreign powers (England and France) did not interfere in the American Civil War despite the 1826 Monroe Doctrine forbidding it? I know I would be accused of cut and paste, but here is again commonality of Pak and US psyche. 1. Same National Symbol - Eagle soaring free above the clouds: Individualists, freedom-loving government-hating 2. Newest nations in respective blocks ? founded as Republics, against Democracy (Washington against PM Frederick Lord North, Jinnah against Nehru) 3. Manifest Destiny ? Global vision. Extra-Territoriality 4. Born Free Enterprising, positive public attitude to business US #1, Pakistan #2. Efficient market, cheapest living in their blocks. 5. Drugs, armaments, guns; Violent regime changes 6. Very similar practical sense of humor 7. Profoundly religious; unique musicality ? Jazz, hip-hop / Qawwali 8. Extremely mobile 9. Mixed language, Widest gene pool, Fastest Growth, Largest family size, Largest population., Net population influx; Hospitable, Generous, Charitable, Poor-friendly 10. Can survive without trade - feed population with borders shut. Even Dr. Cameron Munter, the just retired US Ambassador to Pakistan stated (google for his youtube interview) that he found the straight shooting Paks to be not unlike say, people in Iowa. The Big Sharia is a lawyer-less jurisprudence based on Contract, and is already legal in EVERY common law jurisdiction ? here in the US, in Canada, in Europe, and I presume in India too. The small and discredited ?sharia? of beating women and sex offences you allude to is a sectarian family law which is not even Quranic or Mohammedan.
Agha Ata (USA) Jan 06, 2013 08:47pm
No. Sir, I did not forget Pythagoras and I did not forget Euclid and all learned Persians, Greeks and Hindus. What I forgot was that I didn?t say that though Muslims introduced these things in Europe, but they were not the inventers or discoverers of everything. Sorry for the misunderstanding. One more thing to go with the arguemnt, how come we lost this scientific knowledge. Knowledge cannot be stolen and you can never be without it once you get it. Therefore the entire notion of this supremacy is eronious.
anil Jan 06, 2013 08:42pm
Brother , do some research on science and Technology rather than this bizarre things . No country wants their young generation to do research on these unnecessary things . Longing glorious past is a very bad thing , try to live in present .
Agha Ata (USA) Jan 06, 2013 08:36pm
Dear Mr. Anand, You said nothing that I do not agree with. I agree with one hundred percent of what you said. What I said above was misunderstood. That?s all. Muslims did introduce these arts and sciences to the west but Muslims were not inventers or discoverers of everything. And thank you for pointing it out. :)
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 08:31pm
Desi ji: Greetings If that is your argument in response to my post, I know I must be telling the truth. Your post is a living proof of the 2 nation theory (not that I believe in it). My Indian colleagues here in the US and Canada have no love for India or Indian System. But all Pakistanis believe that the entire world to belong to them. We do not believe in borders. So said Iqbal 100 years ago: Cheen o Arab hamara, Hindostan hamara, Muslim hein hum watan hey sara jahan hamara. I have lived and worked on 4 continents, and never felt that I was not at home anywhere. And do not think when opportunity is ripe Pakistanis would not come back. Jinnah did. So did Imran Khan to cite just 2. Back home? This America is home, so is India where I was born, so is Pakistan where I was raised, and so is Canada another nationality that I have. Do you mind? With globalization and free trade you will see Pakistanis everywhere like fish in water. But not Indians unfortunately. It is your loss. Pakistan allowed dual nationality from day 1, not India. Best wishes
karim Jan 07, 2013 04:08pm
You are as clueless about how the world works as any other Fauji in Pakistan.
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 08:22pm
Krish Ji: Namaste Comparing Pakistan and China are apples and oranges. First, the size. And as I explained in another post in this very discussion board, China had its Transition Civil War in first half of 20th century. Pakistan is having it a century later now. A more valid comparison would be India and China, almost same size, and had their Transitions soon one after the other. China is a Republic, India a Democracy, so PRC had outdistanced India by far. But one common thing in China and Pakistan is that both are Republics (yes, yes, so in India in name). Their official Gini Indices are lower than India. In fact Pakistan?s true Gini Index is even lower because of unofficial and religious charity and food distribution in Ramazan and Eid. Best wishes
Tahir Jan 06, 2013 11:37am
You describe yourself as belonging to a minority sect of Islam. By stating the underlying word "Islam", it seems you are still in the same dogma that NFP is trying to expose. Therefore, you are putting yourself in a comfort seat of hope and please tell me what hope there is for those sects who are considered or declared non-Islamic in Pakistan?
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 08:11pm
Freud was Jewish. The Europeans have a definite idea of nationality. They do not consider Judahism to be a religion but a race that defines their nationality. The Russians are extreme in this respect. In Russia, Jewish was a nationality, and still is. By contrast, Islam is NOT a nationality in Russia, but a religion, so a Russian Muslim is Russian, but a Russian Jew is NOT Russian. Makes sense. Many white Slavic convert to Islam, but NO Slavic converts to Judahism. 65 years ago Hindi and Urdu were indistinguishable. But they have developed on different paths. Urdu has been Arabized, and Hindi sankritized. Plus, their script is different. My mother tongue is U.P. Urdu. I have no difficulty understanding 100% of 1960s Bollywood. But today I need a translator for more than half of the movie. Unless free trade and movement stops this trend, in 50 years the languages will be as different as Ukrainian is from Russian, or French from Italian or Spanish.
Oh Yeah! Jan 06, 2013 11:31am
You could say twisted, but you are too kind.
Rao Jan 07, 2013 04:00pm
You both are partially true....There are many contributors to the knowledge Europeans went on to develop further...Numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0 were in use in the subcontinent for more than thousand years before Arab traders introduced them to Europeans. Imagine writing Pi value 3.14159265 in English numerals. I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX ...Without the Indian numerals solving mathematical problems and expressing them would have been very difficult. Alfred Noble made his money from gun powder....Chinese were the inventors and West has stolen it from China. Using silk route....China, the only silk producing nation use to make its money, before West smuggled silkworms from China ...Thus silk route collapsed and china lost its trade with West. Algebra.....initially developed in Babylonia....present day Iraq Modern History of Science was written by it was not un-biased.
hitesh Jan 06, 2013 11:22am
NFP is advocating 'Jihhad' But it is Major not Minor Jihhad waged by the people of Pakistan against themselves. He is advocating the major Jihhad against one's own vices viz. greed,anger,ego,lust etc.
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 07:57pm
A great read.
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 07:49pm
AdviceFrom__US: AOA Many thanks. I am trained in arms - father was an Army man and I handled his sten guns when young. Then I spent 3 years in Air Force. Yes, I am thinking of getting a gun here in the US. You are right on about Muslim proficiency in peaceful use of side arms as a required religious duty. If it was in my power military training would be compulsory for all men and women in Pakistan, and the standing Army disbanded. Pakistan, like America, is a system that can be destroyed (flattened by Nuclear for example) but never occupied, and our enemies know it. Does not matter: Greetings 1. Free Enterprise: Islam does not believe in Controlled Enterprise - Big Business, but Free Enterprise - small business. Our Prophet was a small businessman trader, so was our First Kaliph, and early Muslims. They defeated Big Business Umayyads, Bankers Banu Abbas, trade monopolist infidels, and yehud. Here in the West, Big Business has led to financial meltdown, and Big Business will do the same to India. Small business creates all innovation and jobs. One does not have to be ?small? to be a small business. Microsoft and Apple are multinationals, but still ?small? businesses, and very Islamic too. Both eschewed interest by not having any debt (until Ballmer wrecked MS) and Jobs? father was a Muslim. 2. Free Trade: Jinnah had free trade with India and the world. Pakistan not giving MFN to India is political, and bad economics. Islam is for a border-less world with free movement of people, goods, and money. 3. Alliance with west: Not West, but America. I do not want to cut and paste from earlier posts, but I explained before that US and Pakistan have psychological reasons for being allies. In an invited lecture to the Naval College in Karachi a year ago I argued that in coming years Pakistan will be the senior partner in the relationship because Islam is rising and Corporate Capitalism is in trouble. 4. Friendship with China: Yes, India does have trade with China, but still loses sleep over Chinese encirclement. 5. Distancing from Socialism: Land owners are feudal and are in retreat as Pakistan industrializes and urbanizes. Pakistan did trounce India's guiding star ? the Soviet Union. 6. Distancing from West: Unlike India, Pakistan has not fallen from the frying pan straitjacket of Corporate Socialism to the fire of Reaganomics/Thatcherism. America and the West are paying the price after 30 years in demise of middle class, a divided society, and financial meltdown. India will start paying the price 30 years later too, in 10 years (1990+30=2020). Enjoy the party while it lasts. Best wishes
Ram, India Jan 06, 2013 07:42pm
I love your rant, especially since it's done in the comfort of Toronto.
Jon Carr Jan 06, 2013 07:31pm
Why my post was not on the wall. When u write logic. U try to censor it.
Aftab Khan Jan 06, 2013 07:17pm
Nadeem F Paracha, finally you have hit the bull after persistent criticizing the Mullah. Here is the catch, we left the most important subject of religion at the mercy of lower strata of society. Consequently none of the Revivalists from Sir Syed to Iqbal to Moududi to Ghamidi is product of these religious institutions. Thanks for your enlightening column. Read "Islamic Thought & Revivalists":
FactCheck Jan 06, 2013 07:09pm
Your statement is not based on facts, is untrue, false. I can give detailed references if you so chose and the moderator allows.
dhananjay Jan 06, 2013 06:54pm
The French revolution was against the ruling elites. The cornerstone of US civil war and the French revolution was equality whereas the current unrest in Pakistan is for imposing a particular version of Islam (which I don't think espouses equality). You say that Americans and Pakistanis share a common psyche - a universal vision and urge to be free. What is your universal vision? To impose Sharia on the whole world? And that too by force and violence? And what freedom you are talking about. Most of Pakistanis have become slaves of religion. You will become free when your thinking will become free and objective.
AHA Jan 06, 2013 01:28pm
We already are a mental case.
FactCheck Jan 06, 2013 11:58am
"Those who slaughtered were not the true followers of the Book" Read the Book. They were truest of the true: The Crusaders of the Holy Cross. Yes the Crusaders slaughtered in every Continent by the Book: Europe, North America, South America, Africa, Middle East, Indian-subcontinent, and Australia. Some tribes, gene-pools, whole civilizations, cultures were completely exterminated.
Pak-Defender Jan 08, 2013 08:29am
You are welcome. I am so glad you have won a voice here. But you are already free my friend. Only a free person fights back with such determination and aplomb. There are many with you, lead on. The future is ours but yet has to be won. Much work to be done yet. Forget not what we are made of, where we come from...who we are. Speak the Truth. Stay strong. Stand tall.
Cyrus Howell Jan 06, 2013 12:53pm
Nice Kamal. I like it.
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 11:51am
Let us not make Pakistan into a mental case. We do not need a couch and an Analyst. Freud made every Westerner into a kook. What is happening in Pakistan is perfectly natural, unavoidable, and necessary. This happened in England under 17th century Cromwell, in France in 18th century Revolution, in America in 19th century Civil War, in Russia and China in first half of 20th century. Partition allowed Nehru an excuse to accomplish it wonderfully. These are Wars of Transition from agrarian/rural to industrial/urban societies. Every System aims at survival, growth, evolution. First it assures its survival against outsiders, than it aligns itself to environment through internal change ? or a civil war. Laws of Civil War 1. Civil Wars are neither short-lived, nor bloodless 2. No System undertakes an internal Civil War unless it perceives that external threat is no more 3. No enemy has ever taken advantage of a Civil War to obliterate a System 4. Every System comes out of the Civil War stronger than before (better aligned to its environment). The world environment is changing from agrarian economy to globalization and world trade. Pakistan needs to get ready for it. Civil Wars resolve socio-economic contradictions, and always end up in the city winning over the countryside, the Feudal-military complex giving way to Military Industrial complex. Why Pakistan should be any different? The current Civil War is a measure of Pakistan?s strength, not weakness. With Pakistan trouncing the Soviet Union and becoming nuclear eliminating threat from West and East, and China and Iran being friendly. we could afford an internal conflict. No other system could have survived 30 years of internal warfare ? not India, not UK, not Canada. Pakistan will come out of this Civil War stronger and more aligned to globalization and Free Trade. With Islam being the natural religion of the Trading Era just as Christianity and Hinduism were for the Agrarian one, Pakistan has a bright future. It will shoot like a rocket Inshallah. And if Pakistanis are worried about the carnage, they should be. The nearest example to Pakistan is 19th century America with whom we share a common psyche ? a universal vision and urge to be Free. The American Civil War was between the agrarian South and industrializing North. America lost over 10% of men of military age in war over Feudalism. Taking a males in Pakistan at 95 million, and the population profile for military age (15-64) at 60.4%, the equivalent figures in current Pakistani Civil War today would be 6 million dead. We have a long way to go. The worse is yet to come before this mess is over. Yes. Civil War forces us to change our sub-consciousness - our religious outlook. And which sect will triumph in Pakistan ? the one that is already aligned to Trade and Travel ? look around. You see them everywhere. Hint ? Jinnah, from a trading family, belonged to it.
AHA Jan 06, 2013 01:32pm
Who spoke German, as most Austrians do. Yes, but NFP got this wrong.
TimeWrap Jan 08, 2013 10:03am
The future is built on the past. You people have nothing there therefore you comment as if history does not matter and is unnecessary. This is foolish. Words of losers of history. When is the present? This...this...this second? When?
Krish Chennai Jan 06, 2013 06:18pm
The names you have mentioned are those who have expressed themselves. There are no doubt millions of Pakistanis who have not done that, and still have the same values as the names you took !
ComparativeReligionStudent Jan 06, 2013 06:17pm
Also read her limited edition book "Muhammad: A Prophet for Our Time". An ex-Catholic nun, she is a great admirer of Prophet Muhammad and considers him a modern and right person for the presentdifficult times and has written a number of books on his life. Great research and excellent reading.
anil Jan 06, 2013 06:14pm
@All , My comment has been moderated , though that was not at all wrong. I had stated that Education can keep Muslims away from religion , that will lead to global peace . Well , if moderators of a English news paper can't tolerate this , How can common citizens of a country . So I am sorry , I was wrong.
Krish Chennai Jan 06, 2013 06:12pm
Maybe a good idea for you to compare Pakistan and China on the same six indices ?
Krish Chennai Jan 06, 2013 06:09pm
He lived in 19 Berggasse in Vienna, Austria. They speak the same language ( like Urdu is spoken by Pakistanis and Indians )
Anand Jan 06, 2013 06:09pm
Dear Mr. Aga, If you care read history(plenty of it is available on the net) you would understand who gave what to the world. The things you described as Muslim contributions are simply untrue.It is certainly true that seafaring & galloping Arabs carried from East to West and the other-way round the EXISTING knowledge, philosophy, art & science of ancient India & Iran from Asia & Greek & Rome from present day Europe to each others' regions.Egypt again was a great civilization that made huge contributions in the field of knowledge. All these civilizations existed much before the advent of Islam! We in India are extremely proud of our rich heritage & culture as also described in our ancient texts from 2500 BC onwards. Please care to read Vedas / Upanishads/ Puranas/ Smritis/ UpVeads like Yoga ,Ayurveda, Natya shastra etc.etc,etcI can go on & on and other numerous greeco-roman texts,including Megasthenes 'Indica' or the book 'periplus of erithrean sea'.All written much before the christian era. It will certainly do you good to know what India was. Simlarly, read about Greek & Roman and Egyptian history or simply visit these countries to see for yourself the magnificent structures constructed much more than 2000 years & you will understand the fallacy of your argument.All these will open your eyes for sure. However,I must add here that knowledge is not the domain of any one people or race.Its dynamic & one has to constantly seek it. We realize that in India & endeavour to teach our children the newer frontiers of science & learning, so that we achieve greatness surpassing our difficulties & stand tall n the comity of nations.
Owl Jan 06, 2013 06:03pm
"Westerners rolled up their sleeves pioneered and built modern cities..." You got to be kidding me. Westerners never rolled up their sleeves or built anything. That is a myth. They always had labour colonies, slaves, serfs, servants. They only schemed and intrigued to loot and steal and rob others with the weapons they cooked up in all their free time while the slaves took care of there every need and even cleaned up after them and reared their children too.
Owl Jan 06, 2013 05:51pm
Its their culture. Their closets are full of all kinds of vermin and poisons.
observer Jan 06, 2013 03:26pm
Was Freud Austrian or German? He did speak German language but that does not make him from Germany.
anil Jan 06, 2013 05:45pm
Please check your facts . Muslims introduced Rice and paper ? Whole world knows Rice was first cultivated by Chinese in Hyoang ho civilization and then by Indians in Indus civilization . Paper was introduced by Chinese also , not any muslim . You also talked about Geometry . History says geometry was started in Egypt ( some give credit to Hindus ) when they built pyramid for their Pharos and at that time Islam was not born . You are being fed false things , which is very bad .
AdviceFrom__US Jan 06, 2013 05:40pm
You lucked out. Never pump gas at night.You must always have CCW in the US and be very competent with it. If you look as if from south india than even more so because small weak looking people are targets. Women even more so. If you have family with you than it is mandatory. Think of what could have happened. For a Muslim proficiency in the peaceful use of side arms is required religious duty.
abbastoronto Jan 06, 2013 02:56pm
Raj: Namaste In 1865 the USA was in midst of a Civil War that left 10% of its male population dead, and reduced even Lincoln to malnutrition. By then England had reduced India, was the master of the globe, and so was France. But America rose to lead the West soon thereafter. As I have stated many times (I will not repeat the long list) that Pakistanis share a psyche with America and France just as Indians share with the English and Canadians. Pakistan will follow the American trajectory. Best wishes
Natalie__UK Jan 08, 2013 08:38am
You can tell a Pakistani from an Indian a mile off. Pakistanis exude a pleasant self assurance and commanding spirit. Indians just the reverse. Indians scare me with their inveigling conniving the dark side of the night. Pakistanis are like the warm glow of dawn. The best.
Feroz Jan 07, 2013 08:00am
If India is a Police State what are Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, China and North Korea --- are they Democracies ?
bkt Jan 06, 2013 05:29pm
Muslims lost all that glory because they started to fight amongst themselves like idiots. We are idiots to think that faith alone will restore the equation. We need the benefits of faith first like justice, compassion and gratitude. That's what we really lost.
Jessica__UK Jan 08, 2013 01:16pm
The article is not much but the comments are informative. I will have a look at the Quran. Seems very reasonable from the comments here. I was getting misinformation it seems. Now will go to the source before accepting hear say Thanks for the dicussion.
Capt C M Khan Jan 06, 2013 05:22pm
@ Mr Toronto..Pakistan is a Soverign Country Engineer Saheeb..not a system first get this correct. It has a governemnt which collects TAX whose job is to provide..Free Education..Free medicine...Jobs...Security to all etc. DONOT MISLEAD MY COUNTRY MEN. Citizens of Pakistan come first and then anything else. If you are not secure in US/Canada you must migrate immediately to another counrty where you will feel SAFE...why are you risking yours and your family's life there???
dialogueforpeace Jan 06, 2013 05:22pm
Hamean qutl ker rahain hain, humean qutl ho rahain hain
Tribal Mento Jan 06, 2013 05:21pm
This highly intellectually when you say whatever is happening in Pakistan is the subconscious manifestation with us Pakistani. Only psychologists and those who read psychology and sociology would be able to understand this phenomena. When our respected parliamentarians pay homage to the world's notorious terrorist Osama bin Laden (a symbol of terrorism), i don't think so there would be more virulent case of the (monster of the id) any where in the world, then the one our politicians depict. We have so many kinds of the monsters of the id, those who unleashed their terror on the innocent people through daily bomb blasts and suicide attacks, and those, who are their apologists. Pakistan is hellbent on destroying itself, while putting all the blame on the outer world. Without a separation of Islam and the state, Pakistan's future is dark and bleak.
Gally Jan 06, 2013 02:48pm
Your world of alternative reality with relationships from symbols and cherry picked historical facts that have no relationship of what so ever of the time and events actually makes you a fool from the perspective of decent reader who is quite aware of the importance of the quoted events.
ghaleezguftar Jan 06, 2013 12:23pm
and the hindu world finally realizes that rape is also a monster in their closet!
Cynical Jan 06, 2013 01:09pm
Crusade is not the last and much less the only instance in a long chain of history when lives, property,wealth,civilisation, culture has been exterminated. And yes, by one or other holy Book. Admittedly, the strategies and techniques of warfare changed, both the intensity and ferocity of destruction reduced. But the spirit of anihilitation of the perceived 'others' remained the same through out. That way no holy Book is better or worse than the others.
Feroz Jan 07, 2013 08:10am
Abbas Sir, whenever I have traveled Europe and the American continent I have seen numerous Pakistani origin people passing themselves off as Indian, did not come across any Indians wanting to pass themselves off as Pakistani. What would be your take ?
sandip Jan 06, 2013 05:23am
The issue can easily be resolved if people are answerable for there deeds. For this to happen people need to be educated. Not only in books but also in thoughts. So unless this cycle is broken we will get what we see now and it will get more extreme as time goes by.
C. M. Naim Jan 06, 2013 05:23am
Fascinating. And thought-provoking, as always. As I recall, the scientist on the planet has a rather unhealthy obsession concerning his daughter. It would be interesting to bring her into the argument. She is truly the object of her father's Id. Of course, that means no real life of her own for her.
Cyrus Howell Jan 06, 2013 01:05pm
You are all living for now because there is no future but the bomb. Your own elite have not chosen long term investment in Pakistan. They are chasing short term profits because it could all over in the morning. What is the point of planning? What is the point of caring?
BRR Jan 06, 2013 05:37am
The race to become a better muslim than ones neighbor, coupled with the unbridled pride of having the Islamic bomb and thereby the right to lead the Ummah, whether the others ever consented to this or not, has brought Pakistan to this state of delusion. Delusions piled onto hatred of the other has poisoned the mind of Pakistanis to such an extent that violence has become the favorite tool for all classes of the society.
Nony Jan 06, 2013 05:52am
quite intellectual and that also in a news paper. can?t be any1 other than NFP. Be blessed, we people need you. Like
Kris Jan 06, 2013 03:08pm
You do know that the mighty Christian warrior Hitler studied and admired the supermatist philosophy of Nietzsche, a syphilitic sociopathic monster, along with his Bible?
Asif Usmani Jan 06, 2013 02:14pm
I think NFP is over-analysing. The endemic violence in Pakistani society and culture is not a manifestation of sub-conscious impulses. Those indulging in it do it deliberately and consciously because they see it as a means to an end. It is indeed true that Pakistani state has had an unquenchable desire to justify its existence having been based on the highly dubious foundation of the two-nation theory and this could not have been done without inventing enemies (which inevitably becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy). However, I can't also help observing that NFP's convoluted explanation of the Pakistani psyche is perhaps a little on the charitable side. If people were really so pre-occupied by their place in the world and their destiny as a "chosen people", there should have been some sort of united and selfless devotion to the cause of Pakistan. Barring the charitable work by a few noble individuals and local NGOs, this is almost entirely absent and most people have conveniently and hypocritically adorned themselves in robes of patriotism and religiosity to be better able to indulge in their real passion, materialism (which is common to all humanity - that is why capitalism works, as long as it is adequately restrained). Relieve people of the burdens of nationalism, patriotism and religious obscurantism, privatise everything, open borders and encourage inward investment and allow free trade with all neighbours (Iran, Central Asia, China, India) and Pakistan could be a prosperous and peaceful country within a decade.
Iqbal Jan 06, 2013 06:00am
As always, an excellent article by NFP.
Yawar Ali Jan 06, 2013 06:05am
Intelligently said, NFP. Indeed the monsters going about on killing sprees in the name of religion are a manifestation of our own demonic biases.
Rao Jan 08, 2013 02:09am
" the idea of faith not as a spiritually, intellectually and morally enriching path, but as a demagogic, politicised weapon to retain social, political and economic power. The power to exploit."....Thats what Jinnah did....used religion as a cause to protect the feudal landlords, who were vary of Congress commitment to land reforms
Pak-Defender Jan 06, 2013 04:57pm
Don't worry about the count. You are not in a popularity contest.You know who they are...the ones scared by your excellent analysis. 'Thumbs down' is how they comfort themselves, they are just whistling in the dark that is going to be the future of their country.
Sajjad Canada Jan 06, 2013 04:53pm
Very respectfully, I would like to contend this argument of historical Muslim supremacy (notions like Muslims invented algebra and geometry. I also live in the west and have tried to do research on this argument. Sadly, the only solace I found was learning that Muslims at that time had the audacity to learn from Greeks, Persians and Hindus and promote those concepts. How can we say that we gave them geometry? Why have we forgotten people like Pythagoras and Euclid? I think that the writer is trying to point out this very fact that in our subconscious we have these false notions of our supremacy that make us think that we and only we are the best nation in the world!
Rubina Jan 06, 2013 06:40am
A unique way of trying to understand the phenomenon of extremism in Pakistan.
LOL Jan 06, 2013 04:49pm
Calling some one a fool makes you one, not him.
FaithEnd Jan 08, 2013 06:34am
"We are idiots to think that faith alone will restore the equation. " You may not understand te power of faith: A Muslim's faith forbids him/her to raise arms against another Muslim irrespective the cause. A Muslim is not allowed to raise arms against a non-Muslim unless invaded or attacked by him/them. When injured, damaged, attacked...a Muslim must seek justice, equity, or made whole through compensation and apology---or else retribution, vengence and revenge in mandatory. Forgiveness if from the heart is also accepted. War once imposed on Muslims requires 100% unity and fight to death till the invader stops and asks for peace. Peace is haram while armed forces of the invader are in Muslim lands.
seeb Jan 09, 2013 03:51pm
NFP, this was absolutely brilliant. It chilled me to my very core the moment I realized the point you were making... we all cower at the feet of the beast we've bred.
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 10, 2013 10:41am
Hilarious really!
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 10, 2013 01:13pm
Wow...gun slinger impressive!!!!
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 10, 2013 12:46pm
I know...they have a knack for getting disliked even on introduction.
ZeroOne Jan 10, 2013 07:07am
Absolute Rubbish...!
Double Jan 10, 2013 07:09am
In what way?
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 10, 2013 10:12am
The problem is converted Hindus seek glory not from civilizations which are credited with achievements but from ones which pretend to these achievements.
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 10, 2013 01:44pm
8-14% of sales of paper back fiction books goes to the author after publication expenses or so I gather. Try it? Fiction writing? You might make a decent living ? You seem to excel at it?
ROHIT PANDEY Jan 10, 2013 02:10pm
A bomb is a bomb ..pretty dangerous thing for human agree Z..