Fissures in the middle

Published Dec 20, 2012 12:30pm

The most convenient understanding of the phenomenon of Pakistani extremists that one hears being echoed from TV studios and their favourite 'guests' suggests that young Pakistanis turning into religious fanatics has something to do with illiteracy and unemployment.

Though not entirely incorrect, this notion, however, is a lazy explanation.

It fails to explain the emergence of young religious extremists such as Omar Shaikh, Shahzad Tanveer and Hasib Hussain, and Faisal Shahzad. Each one of these young men came from educated, middle-class families.

Saying they were products of the western societies that they were raised in is a weak retort.

This attitude simply refuses to seriously address the issue of educated, young Pakistanis falling for an extremely myopic and nihilistic brand of the faith — something that was once explained as a vocation only of the illiterate and the financially desperate.

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Omar Saeed Sheikh, the British Pakistani who studied at prestigious educational institutions like Aitchison in Lahore and than at UK’s London School of Economics was involved in the kidnapping and beheading of US journalist, Daniel Pearl, by radical Islamist organisations in Pakistan.  

There has been an alarming rise in the number of young, educated middle-class Pakistanis (here and abroad), embracing the most reactionary and anarchic strains of the faith, believing it to be a justified and logical portrayal of ‘true’ Islam.

During a recent seminar, TV anchor and journalist, Talat Hussain, pointed out a very interesting finding. During his visits to the United Kingdom, Hussain went around talking to various Pakistani families settled in the UK.

He was shocked to find that in spite of these families having access to a wide spectrum of education, employment and health facilities provided by the UK’s welfare system, a majority of young third generation British Pakistanis were drop-outs, involved in gang-related criminal activities, or had allowed themselves to be ghettoised within large pockets of Pakistani communities there.

In the last two decades or so, these communities have come under the influence of various religious outfits who exercise control over how UK citizens of Pakistani origin (especially the young) should think and behave.

Many of the more radical clerics and leaders of these outfits and thinking are UK citizens surviving on hand-outs that UK’s welfare system doles out to its unemployed citizens.

And yet, one of the main planks of these men includes indoctrinating Pakistani-British youth to view the British society as being ‘decadent’, ‘immoral’ and ‘working against the interests of the Muslims.’

This has consequently made a number of British-Pakistanis to limit their interaction with the British society in general in spite of the fact that most of them continue to accept the benefits offered by the British system.

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While actors like the 7/7 bombers in London and Faisal Shahzad are an obvious embarrassment to Pakistan and to the Pakistani communities in the West, so are the growing number of rabid, tech-savvy young people floating around various social media sites mouthing the most reactionary ideas about Islam and politics.

There are websites out there glorifying some rather disturbed men and the most twisted conspiracy theories. And many of these sites are owned, run and frequented by Pakistanis who work and are comfortably settled in western countries.

Just as the sudden rise of certain crackpots (via TV) in Pakistan was keenly followed and supported by a chunk of young, urban middle-class Pakistanis, various cranks are happily catering to the already confused religious and ideological bearings of Muslim Pakistanis living abroad.

Government Set To Ban Islamist Group That Planned Wootton Bassett March
British-Pakistanis rallying for Shariah laws in the UK. Many such young men are directly influenced by organisations like the Hizbut Tahrir – an Islamist outfit that was recently involved in trying to inspire an Islamist military coup in Pakistan. It is ironic to note that Tahrir, though banned in Pakistan, continues to function as a legitimate organisation in the UK.   

Much has already been written about Islamic evangelists who cleverly represent (and glorify) the increasingly chauvinistic mindset of the current generation of young urbanites.

A recent book on Farhat Hashmi’s organisation, Al-Huda, (written by a Pakistani woman academic), accuses her of spreading hatred against Christians, Hindus and Jews among Pakistani women living in Canada.

In the wake of the Faisal Shahzad episode in New York last year, the Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC) – a group of liberal Muslims living in Canada – accused American Islamic organisations of refusing to distance themselves from the doctrine of armed jihad.

The MCC goes on to state that many young Pakistanis living in the United States and Canada regard Pakistan as a safe haven for their preparation and training for waging wars against the West.

Organisations like the MCC have also come down hard on outfits such as Al-Huda, ridiculing their claim that they are on a mission to convert westerners to Islam.

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A cleric sits beside Farhat Hashmi (left) lecturing young Pakistani women at one of Al-Huda’s teaching centres in Canada.   

Nevertheless, even in liberal countries like the US, UK and Canada, organisations like the MCC are coming under direct attack and threats from their more myopic contemporaries who, it seems, are free to peddle away hatred and confusion to Muslims living abroad.

Not surprisingly, it is now not just right-wing, non-Muslim lobbies in the West who are asking their governments to revisit their policies based on the egalitarian and pluralistic notions of ‘multiculturalism,’ but even organisations like the MCC and others representing liberal Muslim Pakistanis living abroad are demanding the same.

They claim that radical Muslims are misusing these policies and/or only producing intolerant young Muslims thanks to the tolerant attitude of Western governments.

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The Muslim Canadian Congress (MCC) protesting in Toronto against the growing influence of radical Islamist groups in Muslim schools in Canada.

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But, of course, the situation is more alarming in Pakistan.

Political Islam – a mid-20th century philosophy that advocates the creation of a theocratic government and state through the ‘Islamisation’ of society –was once the vocation of conservative scholars and established political parties such as Abul Ala Mauddudi and Jamat-i-Islami (in Pakistan).

However, ever since the late 1980s it has rapidly disintegrated into becoming a bare but populist entity with two prominent strains.

One strain has striped off this philosophy's more scholarly aspects and left only its violent jihadist facets intact. This strain can now be found in the barbaric ways of extremist organisations like the Taliban and many of Pakistan's once state-approved sectarian outfits.

The other strain has been working to turn Political Islam into a populist set of easy-to-digest ideas through which elections can be fought or the military-establishment be infiltrated and used as a patron.

JI tried flaunting the populist aspects of Political Islam during the 1977 and 1993 elections, but failed.

Nawaz Sharif's PML-N did so throughout the 1990s and somewhat did succeed – but only with the help of the military-establishment and before he was chucked out in a military coup in 1999.

Political Islam's historical drubbing in elections in Pakistan has increasingly made this philosophy the prerogative of certain powerful sections of Pakistan's military and its many mouthpieces in the popular Urdu media and in so-called Islamic evangelist movements.

Its most recent advocate is cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan.

Though, quite like Imran, most of his followers' lifestyles too are rather 'westernised,' these are no liberals believing in concepts like democratic pluralism or in the importance of tolerating and promoting religious, sectarian and ethnic diversity.

By the looks of it, they see democracy to be a threat to Pakistan’s imagined existence as a monotheistic state and society based on a single (state-sanctioned and clergy-approved) strain of the faith.

Most Imran fans (if not Imran himself), like the pro-Musharraf ‘moderates,’ have, at best, sounded like modern 21st century versions of former right-wing Pakistani military dictator, Ziaul Haq.

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Instead of a shervani and a stern frown, they can be seen in modern, western clothing and designer shalwar-kameez, spouting the most worn-out rhetoric and narrative that first started to be built up by the state under Zia and his politico-religious sidekicks.

It’s the usual beat: Pakistan and democracy are not compatible; democratic pluralism promotes ethnocentricity; secularism is akin to atheism; religious extremism and violence is the handiwork of the ‘anti-Pakistan’ and ‘anti-Islam’ elements (mainly foreign) …

Also, to these social media savvy 'revolutionaries' there is only one correct version of Islam but most Pakistanis follow a corrupted and adulterated version because they are illiterate and superstitious.

Anyone questioning these assumptions is a traitor, and that we need a strong leader who cannot come through democracy because most Pakistanis are ignorant.

Furthermore, anyone questioning the padded extremism and soft authoritarianism peddled by the bopping Imran fans is a ‘liberal extremist’ who is undermining religion and promoting ‘corrupt politicians'.

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Much is spoken, written and lamented about ‘Islamophobia.’ It’s a propensity found in some people (mostly among the non-Muslim in Western countries), who question and discriminate against the so-called ‘Islamic attire’, look and beliefs.

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But those who speak the loudest against ‘Islamophobia’ have little or nothing to say about another social bend that is haunting their own societies: Islamomania.

I would like to describe Islamomania as a rather unhealthy obsession with religion.

It’s a fixation that is reactively and at times, systematically used to not only inflict bodily harm on those considered to be infidels or ‘bad Muslims,’ but by also those who attempt to maintain a shady moral ground and dominance over those considered to be spiritually flawed and inferior.

This tendency is also flexed to describe ones own professional, social and political shortcomings as being something that is due to the intrigues of those who are against Muslims.

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To many Pakistanis, whatever goes wrong in society and politics in Pakistan is usually due to its external enemies ‘nefarious designs against Islam and Pakistan.’

This Islamomania in Pakistan is mostly found and flaunted in the urban middle and lower-middle classes.

It is an outcome of the careless and selfish socio-political experiments that the state and some governments began to conduct using religion as the main component (some 35 years ago). More squarely put, this obsession with faith is the result of these experiments going horribly wrong.

Though, it emerged from the state’s disastrous experiments conducted to socially engineer a society that would be blindly obedient to a state-sanctioned, individuality-stripping and dystopian version of collective faith, ever since the mid-1990s, it has become a project of the society itself.

Such experiments that first began to take place in the mid-1970s and went on across the 1980s, till about the early-1990s as a state-backed project, finally spawned a social mindset and milieu that did not require policies from above anymore.

From the mid-1990s, the Pakistani society had well understood the economic, political and social benefits that came with things like overt religious exhibitionism.

As mentioned earlier, the classes that were in the forefront of recognising the above were the urban middle and lower-middle-classes. It was among these classes that most of the self-motivated Islamic evangelical movements emerged.

These movements and outfits peddled Islam as a way to bypass and reject an identity based on ethnicity or any secular ideology. It’s main underlining emphasis, however, remains to be about how to use religion as a way to gain economic success and social status.

Consequently, unable to succeed in electoral politics or walk the corridors of the country’s power politics, the Islamised urban, bourgeoisie and the petty-bourgeoisie began to invade, take-over and transform economic, cultural and social spaces that were inherently secular or at least non-religious.

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Though it was the secular regime of Z A. Bhutto in the 1970s that is believed to have first sown the seeds of state-sanctioned Islamisation of Pakistan, it was military dictator, Ziaul Haq, in the 1980s, who is considered to be the main architect of state-sponsored and imposed ‘Islamisation’ in Pakistan.

The state in the past (especially in the 1980s) was the one imposing certain ‘Islamic policies’ upon a bewildered society; but from the mid-1990s, it is society (rather the middle and lower-middle class sections of it), that seems to be enforcing religious dictates and behaviorism in public space.

This has seen the proliferation of praying areas in offices, parks and airports, and/or the availability of praying areas outside the traditional praying centres such as the mosque; the overt display of scriptural verses on buildings and billboards; calls to pray (azaan) in shopping malls; the growing number of Arabic/religious expressions in everyday language; the explicit display of what is described and understood as ‘correct Islamic clothing and look’; religious gatherings in posh drawing rooms and in TV studios; sharing of sermons and religious quotes, and images on social media, etc.

It was a conscious and concentrated effort to display religiosity in public.

The ‘Islamic attire and look’ has been increasingly embraced by both the men and women of Pakistan’surban petty-bourgeoisie.
The ‘Islamic attire and look’ has been increasingly embraced by both the men and women of Pakistan’s
urban petty-bourgeoisie.

This is so because all this and more is treated and celebrated as symbols of the kind of social power that these classes have attained.

There are many among these classes who see these developments as a ‘good sign.’

But, of course, very few of them are willing to ask exactly why things like extremist violence, crimes (especially against women and children), drug addiction, the rise in psychological/psychiatric ailments, and political and social corruption have managed to not only grow but actually thrive at a time of this great Islamisation from below?

True to form the dynamics of Islamomania are such that the blame for all this is conveniently put on politicians, ‘foreign hands’ and the ‘illiterate masses.’

Questioning or even discussing such issues is more likely to get one labeled as an Islamophobe.

A photo of a congested psychiatry ward at a hospital in Lahore. The rate of psychological ailments and disorders has increased dramatically in Pakistan, ironically paralleling the rise of ‘Islamisation’ and the growing social influence of the urban classes. –Photo by  Demotix
A photo of a congested psychiatry ward at a hospital in Lahore. The rate of psychological ailments and disorders has increased dramatically in Pakistan, ironically paralleling the rise of ‘Islamisation’ and the growing social influence of the urban classes. –Photo by Demotix

It is not the doctrines of faith that are put in danger by such discussions and questions.

It is the urban middle classes’ growing dependence on religious exhibitionism as a way to retain the economic and social benefits that they have enjoyed from the mid-1980s onwards, which comes into focus.

Sometimes the Pakistani middle classes approach towards faith is like that of a capitalist towards consumerism.
Sometimes the approach of Pakistani middle classes towards faith is like that of a capitalist's towards consumerism.

This form of obsessive exhibitionism has increasingly been indentified by these classes as an expression of the influence that they are gaining outside the airtight confines of conventional power.

But the most disturbing thing about this obsession (in the context of its middle class social expression) is that, even when its more violent and extremist expression brutalises minority religions, different Muslim sects, law enforcement agencies and the ‘liberals,’ Islamomania forces the Islamised middle classes to either limit their critical response to such madness, or worse, remain quiet.

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It is as if they believe that they’re akin to unwittingly let go of the social ground they have gained even if they condemn the bloodiest of acts partaken in the name of faith.

But then, though the main reasons of such a gain are almost entirely economic and to do with carving out a social niche, status and identity for oneself, it too is something partaken in the name of faith.

It’s a thin red line now between what constitutes open terror unleashed in the name of religion, and religiosity imposed with the help of overt religious exhibitionism and symbolism.


Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and Dawn.com

 


The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.


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Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and Dawn.com


The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.

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Before Bhutto arrived on the scene in the late 1960s, rallies and oratory in Pakistan were pretty ho-hum affairs.

Comments (532) (Closed)


Plain speak
Dec 20, 2012 04:24pm
Imran Khan is trying to be all things to all people, much like Jinnah did. Follower be aware.
J, Ali
Dec 20, 2012 04:08pm
Marxism is a governing ideology not a religious one. Study your politics and economics before you start throwing labels around. The article is about the pitfalls of extreme Islam, btw have you looked at the state of Pakistan recently?. Its a third world country that becomes more isolated every day. Its a country where girls are shot, or drowsed in acid for trying to get an education. I guess if it were up to idiots like you, we would become Afghanistan. So please get an education and a better world view. It would make our country stronger.
Indian
Dec 21, 2012 11:15am
Free societies are allowing its ground to be used for Islamist,its a blunder committed by free societies.Finally Islamist would rule their countries as one of the them in this article has a banner "Sharia For UK".Forget having Sharia in Pakistan and Afghanistan these people being minorities in those countries are think of having sharia in countries like UK,USA,I cant stop laughing. :)
mElIRal
Dec 20, 2012 04:23pm
Sorry liberal Fascists .... We Love Islam. We Love Islam to extent that u Love and Respect Democracy..... We Love our Scholras Anajum Chaudhry, Farhat Hasmi, Anwar Awlaki, Musa Cerantonio, Zakir Naik, Bilal Philipse.... and hate Zardari, BayNazir, Nawaz, Bhutto up to top of ur fickle Nationalist Leaders Ladder... inclusive those u think have borrowed this Country from the Creator of Universe through Bargaining..... :)
USA
Dec 21, 2012 09:04am
NFP is again at his best. I really the like detailed explanation written here in the article. Hats off to him. Though, this growing trend in religious extremism in Pakistan is because of lack of knowledge in Quran and Sunnat. Youth of Pakistan is crossing through such dilemma where they feel confusion as barrier in their way. Besides, we've firm believe that, foundation of religious extremism laid by our Army so called 'Establishment'. Since, our Establishment does understand that, with growing influence, it can really manipulate its people mind-set against any enemy like India, USA or Israel etc. For example, Making or supporting Jihadis to fight war in Kashmir against Indian Army, Supporting Taliban against US-Led forces in Afghanistan, Supporting Jindu-Allah extermist group in Pakistan to fight or counter against Shia's growing influence in Pakistan, Supporting TTP to let rest of World know that, we are also victimized by Taliban, supporting religious political parties like JUI, JUI(F) MMA and so many others etc. And on other side, if we look at picture of our so called enemy like India,USA and Israel, we don't see such manipulation done by these States for their peoples to fight their enemy rather these States, provides facilities and all basic incentives to live happy and rich life which does not happen in Pakistan's side establishment. Many of our youth is misguided by our course outline that studied in our primary or college education that, Jinnah's dream to build Pakistan a Muslim state but if you look at life of Jinnah, he never practiced Islam properly. Besides, I rather support Jinnah for making of Pakistan as well-fare state. Finally, I must say, our establishment and Government work together to eliminate this growing religious extremism with disturbing fine integrity of Islam and work betterment for the people of Pakistan where would not be any concept of 'Minority' or 'Majority' and where people of all religion like Muslim, Hindu, Christian and etc live and work together happily forever. This is what I dream of future Pakistan.
Feroz
Dec 20, 2012 12:30pm
A very fine article but a waste of time and space. A majority of the population is completely indoctrinated and this section is not the illiterate mass at all. The illiterates are simply the whipping boys of the educated illiterates and like poor Ajmal Kasab exploited and used as toilet tissues. Why do you think the Government is helpless in going after the various terror groups affiliated to the Taliban / Al Qaeda even after they have slaughtered 40,000 citizens in cold blooded fashion in a decade ? They are merely proxies maintained to keep a strangle hold on the masses and prevent uprisings. Why are terrorists being let off by the Courts -- they know these are only foot soldiers and the masterminds are too powerful and dangerous. Guys like Hafiz Saeed will never be prosecuted in Court because they know too much and can take the edifice of the State down too. Once his utility has been served he will be accidently disposed off like other Titans of the State -- of course TTP will do it and the blame placed on you know who. Those who stand up and challenge will sooner or later join the ranks of the disappeared.
babu
Dec 20, 2012 01:09pm
sleepingpaki, i am waiting ...............
Saleem
Dec 20, 2012 12:51pm
Where Lying,Killing, Rapping, Bribery and all type are SINS flroushing. This type of ISLAM may be of today's Mullah and follower like you, not the ISLAM which our beloved God sent down. God is Love, and most forgiving. Lets follow HIM, and donot become god yourself. Think, Think, Think
Amjad Wyne
Dec 20, 2012 02:33pm
The article fails to point out that liberal and/or non-religious leaders and parties have failed even more miserably at steering the nation or its thinking and economy in a positive direction. The fanaticism is not good but a vaccum on the other side is even worse - it addresses nothing.
observer
Dec 20, 2012 03:25pm
Imran Khan does not have the right ideas overall. He is aware of love of Pakistani nation with money and he promises to bring back looted money. So, people waiting for a miracle tend to like him. Imran Khan is also aware that in current day Pakistan, he would badly fail if he does take a rightist approach.
Chaman
Dec 20, 2012 12:33pm
Insightful and thought provoking article. I think as we practice our faiths, it is also important to be peaceful, tolerant and wise. Religions flourish not by force but by progress in the education, thinking and living conditions of adherents. Spirituality is one aspect of human need but other needs need our serious attention too. Rational faith and civility are the answer. Current violence in the Islamic countries may have some political overtones but the underlying reasons are human quest for individual freedom, improvement of living conditions, education and jobs for the youth. Rights of others can not be ignored because of the die hard beliefs of a minority. Levels of understanding of our existence and the universe around must add to our understanding and perspectives. In my humble opinion, Pakistan can only flourish when there is peace amongst te natives, indiduals work hard and honestly to improve their lot.
Ali
Dec 21, 2012 10:56am
Curtesy of Saudi Arabia & General Zia.
SleepingPaki
Dec 20, 2012 01:07pm
So all the Indians living outside India must be ashamed of their Indian identity. And those living in India are proud Indians dishonoring their girls on the buses in Delhi. I still serve my country by investing my wealth there in property and charity and yes I am extremely proud of my identity.
pathanoo
Dec 20, 2012 03:14pm
Again an excellent article by Mr. Paracha. I doubt that my statement would be published but I will say it never-the-less....... ISLAM AS PRACTICED IN PAKISTAN IS NOT THE SOLUTION. IT IS THE PROBLEM. MIND YOU I AM NOT CONDEMING ISLAM ITSELF.
Amaal
Dec 20, 2012 03:01pm
religions should enhance our life, not take away all free will and individual freedoms, not restrict us in everything and impose rules for everything... what to eat, how to dress, what to feel, so many superficial rules... god/Al-Lah must be a very practical fellow to think of all these rules! doctrines that want to control all aspects of life are the basis of totalitarian regimes, sorry...
raika45
Dec 20, 2012 01:26pm
Really appreciated the drawing of the school photograph and "that's me" comment.What can one say for those who drape it's women folk in a black sack with just the eyes showing.I am at loss for words.
Shankar
Dec 20, 2012 03:14pm
Its damn crazy ! What is it about Islam which drives people to this ? I partly agree with the observation about third generation Pakistanis in UK dropping out of school and turning into criminals etc..I realised the same during my stay in England ..the big difference between british born Indian and Pakistanis. Most Indian parents have worked hard to bring up Children who are one step better than them. Where as a large number of Pakistani youth are lost cases and totally failed to take advantage of life in UK.
Abbas
Dec 21, 2012 09:12am
Before 911 Pakistan was a great place to hang around and live with money or without money also almost. But now after post 911 it's a mine zone and the whole country is a Prison , a jail , a killing field, a war zone , thanks to zardari and kayani. And Nawaz and Musharraf and everyone who is there friend.
Himanshu
Dec 20, 2012 04:17pm
if he does so, he will be killed the next day
Secular
Dec 21, 2012 07:59am
Liberals are spineless in Pakistan.
I. Ahmed
Dec 20, 2012 12:09pm
Rashid (response to your comments at 3:58 and 3:47) on the day of judgment "you" will be answerable to Allah and he will decide 'your' fate. If you believe in this then stop worrying about what others are doing or saying whether they are muslims or non-muslims. By the way, Allah has promised good in life and better in hereafter, so trying to improve oneself is not a sin. By giving some more, Allah test others. Fighting for Allah does not only mean fighting against non-muslims. One has to fight all the evils like poverty, corruption, deceit, hatred etc. Think about that. Lastly, by writing in all caps, the authenticity of text or your argument does not get better.
stuti
Dec 20, 2012 02:14pm
I endorse your views. I follow Pakistan's programmes closely. I just do not understand, they eat religion, drink religion and sleep religion. Take a break guys! There is more to world than Islam.
I. Ahmed
Dec 20, 2012 12:19pm
True, but Islam did not come to this planet earth in 20th century (to be specific during Bhutto or Zia's time). In last 1434 years our forefathers had worshiped the same religion, read the same books, followed the same hadiths and they never went to such extremes that we see today - like religious exhibitionism, hatred towards others. Why some of the new breed of followers of Islam are trying to portray a picture of Islam that our forefathers didn't? The reactionary Islam that we see today could be the result of hatred against jews and christians, but they were there at the time of advent of Islam. So why we the Pakistani muslims are portraying a new version of Islam?
observer
Dec 20, 2012 03:23pm
Why people are in a hurry to brand NFP (and others) a certain way? Don't such peoplr believe there are also independent, original thinkers?
farid
Dec 20, 2012 03:23pm
Religion is an opium and the human race should get rid off it.
Saleem
Dec 20, 2012 12:46pm
Like Yawar said, Lagey raho Munna.
Khalid
Dec 21, 2012 11:10am
We have learned a lot to how make money or get famed by doing this and that, but simply forgetting the lessons of "QURAN". Iqbal rightly said here: Wo zamane mei moaziz teh musalma ho kay, tum khuwaar ho rahe ho tareke Quran ho kay. Allah pak hum sab ko aqle saleem ata farmae. Ameen!
PAK
Dec 20, 2012 12:08pm
YES PRECISELY THANK YOU! I couldn't have said it better.
ghaleezguftar
Dec 20, 2012 03:14pm
Oh please! stop blaming a man who died 24 years ago. the identity crisis of the youth is the fault of your generation who failed to do what was to be done to groom them into gentlemen! most of the youth never experienced the Zia era and the radicalization is mostly a reaction to the flood of cultural trends flowing from all over the world into Pakistan. your generation romanticized and approved of such things allowing the majority religious right to get cautious of this invasion and shift more to the right and some even to extremes. dont blame the youth. blame yourself and the people above the age of 40. blame 9/11!
observer
Dec 20, 2012 03:29pm
Not really Cynical. From my experience, NFP is right about educated Pakistanis. But NFP has not addressed the point as to why some class of Pakistanis finds it more convenient to grab Islamic appearance than others. To me, it has to do with ethnicity, geographical origin of Pakistanis, etc.
zoro
Dec 20, 2012 02:29pm
Excellent analysis of the society's behavioral and fundamental change in the basic mindset and shift in the thinking of a mesmerized section of people because of wrong teachings of religion ...
A Zeb
Dec 20, 2012 12:39pm
Its good effort to understand Pakistani-Muslim and socio-political issue, however problem here has further complex dimensions and requires some more critical examination - reaction among religious and moderate groups is promoted for certain reasons during Zia regime. We need to understand reaction is a negative emotion and true humans never accept it. Hate is a self defeating thought and always people who are weak in their personalities get infected with it. Educate your people especially about love and all religions are love not hate.
zoro
Dec 20, 2012 02:32pm
Have ever heard the interview of the so called solicitor / barristers on BBC ??? You would have been shell shocked with the misinterpretation of Islam. Do you homework before you comment here ...
chump
Dec 21, 2012 11:05am
And whats so wrong about it? In the time of Afghan taliban rule , there was almost no bombings in Pakistan.An average afghani life was far more peaceful than the current one. Saddam killed lesser people in iraq than US and Iraqis lived as humans some years ago. Peace is a basic human necesity.
AHA
Dec 20, 2012 12:19pm
I really think you should turn your cap lock off. BTW, I think it is really the Muslims who are currently in a 'lost' mode.
Usman
Dec 20, 2012 12:10pm
Do you also write these columns in Urdu, NFP? If you don't, then you should! They'll reach a much wider audience that way.
Aizaz Moin
Dec 20, 2012 04:00pm
I believe that this is an attitude problem. Pakistanis are born and bred in an envirinment of fear. They are preached to, consequently they become brainwashed. The problem is more here in the UK where their own attitude prevents and consequently precludes them from mixing into Western culture where they have a chance to understand it and then seek to work out why we are different. The only way out of this mess is to allow unfettered growing up to our kids, knowing fully that we have given our best to them and having confidence in the training we have given them. Then let them seek their fortune (not just money) from around the world so that they can grow mentally. Our culture of fear is scaring away many people from Islam even in Pakistan. This has to stop. The numbers of new athiests is swelling by the day. How to you explain this exodus?
Pradip
Dec 21, 2012 11:09am
Actually, I too cracked up at the hilarity of that cartoon...and I go to the gym regularly even though I am not Hritwick Roshan either.
jay komerath
Dec 20, 2012 02:31pm
Excellent -excellent-YOU ADRESS ALL PROBLEMS OF THE PAKISTANI PEOPLE
saghir Ayub
Dec 20, 2012 02:34pm
Is it bad to turn to Religion to solve nation's social, political, and economic problems? Remember this is the only country whose base of independance was Religion. For the most part, Western constitutions are based on Islam and they are very much prosperous. Unlike Pakistan with Muslims everywhere but no Islam.
secular Pakistan
Dec 20, 2012 03:53pm
Brother NFP. NO matter how much you try.Imran khan is already won heart throughout the Pakistan.as evident from the comments below I am so Happy in this time of turmoil we are about to chose Imran khan as the future savior of Pakistan.A great leader i must say NFP if this article was nt about NFP.i would have given you positive rate.bt as in the past i said.nothing work against Imran khan. terming this as an epic fail
Ghani Khan
Dec 20, 2012 03:51pm
As usual NFP is horse whipping Islamists, no doubt they deserve it but equal responsibility lies with Zardari's government. An abhorable mindset of youths is to be countered with an adorable mindset. Over 4 years in the office, PPP along with its coalition partner MQM. PML(Q) has set an example of the worst governance in the history of the nation..Lack of basic necessities of life such as electricity, gas, worsening law & order situation not only in the country but also in the universities, all have left general population in dilemma.Uninspiring leadership produces wayward minds. That is where our youths are heading to.How long can a nation survive when in the name of sham democracy, there is no accountability ?
Shameema
Dec 20, 2012 11:56am
Excellent essay, NFP.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 11:48am
Life Is Good so long as people have a sense of humour about things and can laugh at themselves sometimes. I am not Pakistani, obviously, but I think the last thing one Pakistani needs is another Pakistani telling him how he should live and according to what rules. That is when the needle is stuck on the record and the same old verse keeps on playing ... and playing ... Over and Over and Over again. Mullahs wake up every morning to discover that the same old things are new.
rajiv
Dec 20, 2012 12:01pm
proud to be pakistani.. yet not ready to live in pakistan... easy choice you made....
rich
Dec 20, 2012 01:22pm
why is pakistan so involved in religion? every second article, or programe on pakistn tv has to mention islam, it is a classic case of being so unsure of oneself and ones religion, it looks like islam is the only religion whch need the protection from mere mortal, unlike the other way around, where people need religion they other thing is even the arab to whom this religion belong are not so engrossed in it, i do not know about the saudi, but having met them in other countries, they would be killed in pakistn grow up, pakistn islam does not need u, u need islam so stop acting so pious, and try to actually be good nstead of creating enemies all over the wotld know ur real enemies, the people whp shot malala, or the poor lady whose only fault was she was trying to vaccinate the poor children
abbas
Dec 20, 2012 02:31pm
No system, whether it is democracy, kingship, communism or so called Islamic governance can't work unless established under justice (with ethical boundaries). Pakistan is facing threats on two equal fronts and not just one. Internal and External and we have to eradicate both and not just only one of them. Of course the cleaning starts from home.
ROHIT PANDEY
Dec 21, 2012 08:34am
I live in Canada too..and oftentimes,when I meet Muslims here...from Middle East/Pakistan/Africa and they accost me with a very RUDE ILLEGAL question..."Are you a Muslim?"..by law,a person's religious affiliation CANNOT BE ASKED in Canada..and it totally unacceptable etiquette wise. ONLY Muslims do it!!! I react with instant dislike!
m h kayani
Dec 20, 2012 01:21pm
I am really surprise to read his article, the writer seems to me lives in box of lock mind. please stop firing at Islam and blaming others and in fact when the real problem is with in your won society. A good sizeable young Muslim in the west are better educated and have better jobs and in fact playing good part in the community at large, rather then living in with hands out. Muslims are progressive and better understood in Islamic values rather then Pakistani. The photograph printed here from UK, most of them are qualified solicitors and Barristers. Stop this nonsense of yours in-apt views and third rated writing. There is NO criticism of Dr Farahat Hashmi in Canada and Imran Khan has better agenda then rest of you corrupt Pakistani so called Politicians. Stop shooting from others shoulders.
PakiPower
Dec 20, 2012 12:33pm
@ Rashid: Bro U need a real treatment. Get a life man. Take my afree advise & just listen the song I dedicate to people like you. Bhaag DK Boss DK ;)
Mani
Dec 20, 2012 12:33pm
There you go hating on Imran Khan again with baseless accusations. PTI is truly democratic as compared to your beloved elitist, feudal PPP. Wohabbisim is not a bigger issue than corruption, feudalism, inequality and injustice. All other political parties, when in power have mostly, only helped themselves, rarely the people and thats why Imran is popular, not for the Islamic reasons you give. Imran may be a bit of mullah but his academic qualifications and dedicated work in health, education and for the eradication of poverty for this godforsaken nation (without any official support) are miles ahead of his opponent's contributions and his sincerity is without a doubt. Stop spreading lies.
Mahmood
Dec 20, 2012 12:32pm
Dear Anand Pakistan is unique in the sense that it was carved apart on basis of two nation theory and religious values and the same is evident from writings and speeches of Allama Iqbal and Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Our dilemma is that we lost that purpose within a few years of our inception. Since than we have been beset by corrupt governments, dictatorships and red tapism. The hard truth is that Post 9/11 we set about destroying our neighbor country although we had already witnessed the repurcussions of Russian invasion and supported the Afghanis earlier. We systematically dismantled the most stable government possessed by Afghanistan for 2 decades (a harder truth). This fact is hard to understand for those who don't share a substantial physical boundary with Afghanistan. The result is that we are still reaping the fruits of the ensuing chaos (pun intended). Until and unless we choose our battles and non-involvement with greater thought and deliberation we will continue to flounder. Despite these events, we are still world champions in numerous sports, have a valuable work force and are blessed with abundant natural and mineral resources. Rediscover thy purpose. Apnay man mein doob kar pa ja suragh e zindagi Tu mera nahin banta na ban apna to ban
Riaz
Dec 20, 2012 12:31pm
Quran is product of divine revelation, it cannot be changed; hadith and sunnah were expressed and interpreted relevant to the needs of the time and place; the rest is all man made including the sharia and interpretation of the Quran. The demands and needs of thousand years ago were starkly different from today's world. Mindset of today's Muslim is firmly embedded in the twelfth century, rigidly dogmatic, inflexible and non compromising, confrontational and highly egotistical with no room for reason or rationality; it is propelled and motivated by fiery emotion. The mind of Islamic scholars rarely venture outside the cocoon of twelfth century theology, they read and write sensitized Islamic history, they are mortally afraid of philosophy, science and multitude of worldly knowledge. Turkish Islamic scholar Said Nursi emphatically pointed out this discrepancy. The Golan foundation based on his advice and teachings have worked wonders in Turkey. Islam as a matter of fact happens to be very rich in ethics, morality, justice, kindness, love and pious human conduct full of kindness, patience and temperance. . Ask your self the question; the country has millions of mosques, bursting at the seems with people during Friday prayers, so why is Pakistan a grave yard of ethics and morality?
AHA
Dec 20, 2012 12:00pm
The people worrying just about the day of judgement are the ones who are murdering innocent people like the polio vaccination workers. I consider you an accomplice in the murder of all those innocent people.
Muhammad Farooq
Dec 20, 2012 03:10pm
Mr Z.A. Bhutto introduced those "Islamization measures" when he was cornered by the right-wing parties. Instead of resigning, he thought it expedient to bring in those "reforms". So essentially it was a political move. Mr Ziaul Haq had a grand plan of remaining in power for ever and his version of Islamization supported him to do so. Again this was a guise to perpetuate his rule. Not every Muslim parent in the North America or Europe is of that radical brand mentioned. So responsibility lies on the shoulders of the parent to ensure that they train their kids well. So as young men and women they can avoids interaction with and exposure to such radical elements. There is need to monitor education being given at religious schools and seminaries. All out efforts are needed to weed out what is not wanted by the mainstream Muslims everywhere.
Shumaila khan
Dec 20, 2012 02:00pm
Education system, curriculum, extra curricular activities, sports, parenting, community involvement, balance, love for people and religion together can create healthy society. Visit SMB fatima jinnah school at nishter park to see the master piece of shehzad roy and sami mustafa.
Immad
Dec 20, 2012 11:55am
Dawn please stop moderating my comments and start kicking out these hatred stricken comments, please.
KHAN
Dec 20, 2012 11:53am
GIVE ME EXAMPLE OF ONE MUSLIM COUNTRY,WHERE ABOVE MENTIONED THINGS ARE HAPPENING,WHAT EVER YOU MENTIONED IN FIRST PART OF STATEMENT,IS HAPPENING IN MUSLIM STATES.IN FACT BY YOUR DEFINITION,THERE ARE ONLY FEW MUSLIMS IN THIS WHOLE WORLD.
Rashid Jee
Dec 20, 2012 12:21pm
I AM NO WAY SURPRISED THAT YOU PEOPLE HATE THE REALITY THAT YOU WILL DIE AND WILL FACE YOUR CREATOR.
Saleem
Dec 20, 2012 01:04pm
There are always good and bad people in this world. Our job is to do our part to do good, serve and love the mankind, so on day the judgement day, HE may forgive our shortcomings. Muslims suppose to be the best,for the reason that they MUSTserve HIS creation with love and compassion. Those who will understand this, are the one whom HIS mecry guided them.
AHA
Dec 20, 2012 11:50am
The only way things can ever become normal is if we start thinking rationally. Tall order.
Riaz
Dec 20, 2012 01:56pm
Let us examine the reality in Pakistan. The politicians are corrupt and society is just as corrupt. Corrupt politics is a product of corrupt politics.
Old Muslim
Dec 20, 2012 02:40pm
Children who are administered with Polio vaccine will have normal limbs in future therefore there is a bigger risk from them that they might fire DRONES on our PAK LAND! Therefore it is important to not give polio vaccines to anybody!
AHA
Dec 20, 2012 11:45am
NFP, you are great.
Vicky
Dec 20, 2012 12:29pm
@Rashid: Yes we live in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. But this country was made IN the name of Islam, but NOT ONLY FOR Islam. You blubbering idiot, everyone is a human being, be they a Muslim or a non-Muslim. Anyone can live in my Islamic State of Pakistan, irrespective of their religion, colour, caste, sect, etc.
observer
Dec 20, 2012 03:20pm
From their reaction, I am sure m h kayani is not an experienced reader of newspapers.
observer
Dec 20, 2012 01:53pm
Great analysis by NFP.
Nizamuddin
Dec 20, 2012 01:22pm
A thorough Marxist analysis of the religious question in Pakistan. It's amazing how a former Marxist like Paracha is able to do so with great affect whereas the current breed of so-called Marxists and the left in Pakistan are still stuck with old leftist cliches and Cold War rhetoric.
SleepingPaki
Dec 20, 2012 01:24pm
babu na char malanga noo...yae sleepingpaki uth gaya tu sara gahaan hill gaye ga
Nazar Sandhu
Dec 20, 2012 03:21pm
It is all about Power. Power in modern times comes from technology. the West and far East ( Japan, South Korea and also China to some extent) have educated their masses and allowed the entrepreneurs to make money off of their innovations. The money they earn gives them power. this is also happening in India. But in Pakistan education is a mess, high technology firms are non-existent, jobs are few and only religions such as Islam with their loud proclamations of dominance by islam and Muslims gives these frustrated young men a sense of power which they frequently exercise by attacking minorities such as Christians and Hindus and even fellow Muslims such as the Ahmadiyyas. It is much easier to indulge in these attacks and feel powerful then by spending endless hours writing code for computers, carrying out research in science, developing new products. It is like a depressed person who every now and then drinks a few beers feels good for a few minutes but when the alcohol wears off he feels even more depressed and drinks more alcohol. Religion is alcohol of these violent jihadists.
Suleman
Dec 20, 2012 11:40am
Good name for the other form of madness, Islamomania
J T
Dec 20, 2012 01:29pm
You wish...
SleepingPaki
Dec 20, 2012 11:36am
Rohail bahi, someone has to spread the Islam here as well so NFP can write an article on us that how intolerant we are..By the way we are quite successful in spreading OUR version of Islam here and many non-muslims are conveting to Islam:)
Shahzad
Dec 20, 2012 01:32pm
Absolutely true picture of Mullah's
G.A.
Dec 20, 2012 01:30pm
I think Imran Khan has the right ideas for the country and he is sincere. My fear is that his allies, the bearded hordes lurking in the shadows, will hijack his victory.
G.A.
Dec 20, 2012 01:27pm
Islamomania: A state of getting intoxicated by using religion instead of alcohol or drugs. Where religion becomes the opium.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 02:53pm
People are better off with religion than they are without religion. Very true. "Education is what you have left over after you have forgotten everything you have learned." Andrew Carnegie That goes double for a religious education.
Sigma
Dec 21, 2012 01:18pm
Khalid don't be sad another Osama is coming,he as already taken birth. :)
Karachi Wala
Dec 21, 2012 11:51am
Patriot Pakistani, "it was Liaqat Ali Khan who way back in 1949 got Objectives Resolution passed thus bringing religion into state and thus burying Qaid-e-Azam
abbastoronto
Dec 20, 2012 03:41pm
Osama bin Ladin was not poor or undeduated.
Abbas
Dec 21, 2012 09:05am
Well first of all there is war of liberals or Islamic radicals in Pakistan .......the war is about Pakistanis govt and army working with the Americans on this proxy war of terror ......so there are two sets of minds in Pakistan one who oppose this war in a civilized way by a debate and the other is the suicide bomber who is against this war ........so now the big picture is that the very few hand full of people who are radical suicide militant wageing jahad against NATO and Pakistan govt are spread all over the country and there is no solution to stop them .........not even Americans have the solution ......the only solution is to stop wageing war on Muslim countries .....and USA plus NATO forces leave Afghanistan and Pakistan alone . And the life will come back to normal . Automatically .
ahmad butt
Dec 20, 2012 03:34pm
NFP, i have to contradict you in this article especially branding of the Imran Khan supporters. The problem lies in all the disillusionment revolving around our polarised society. We have the rich and affluent who after living a fun and fulfilling life in their youth, they turn to religion to wipe off their sins , show their wealth and then we have the middle class and poor who have nothing but to turn to religion, hoping the good days to come. Plus wasnt it in your earlier articles that you explained Madudi and the islamic version of why Pakistan was created. If you feed this in the feeble minds in school what do you expect in the end? I have had people from different religious factions tell me to join their cause for the glory of God, and when i say what about the other sect having said the same agenda, they felt an instant snub, where i try to quote the hadith of the muslim ummah being one. And most of them didnt even know basic conceptual knowledge of islam and were hailing beards, five time prayers and i dismissed them as blind followers and rebels without a cause. A few people tell me im disillusioned when i said the problem of Pakistan is injustice and unequal distribution of resources. And almost all problems that we face in the entire country, we tend to say God will fix them before we even start discussing the core issue itself. be it education, politics, food, electricity, our soul is cleansed after blaming the foreign elements hindering the success of our nation( rather than pointing at our own home grown failures). Till the idle youth of this country is not channeled constructively, we will see more end up with extremism and fanaticism and the affluent ones will join them in a sheep flock mentality. and till the leaders be with relgious or political dont get their act right, disillusionment will stay, we will have people argue democracy, khilafat etc etc to cure our ills At the end of the day, West considers all muslims equal and even have suspicion of those who follow western lifestyle ( with the likes of Imran Khan). Little do the muslims of Pakistan know what muslims in other countries whether our foe India or ally China are like as well. We have turned into a breed of our own.
MJ
Dec 21, 2012 04:50pm
Not all followers of Islam are zealots or terrorists and not all non-Muslims and liberals critical thinkers, community leaders and role models. We have a severely polarized society in Pakistan where people have 'my way or the highway' attitude. Until people learn to be tolerant on both sides of the fence and get educated we will continue to witness this chaos.
Jkhan
Dec 20, 2012 09:57am
Lovely article, Bhai! :-*
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 09:59am
ABOVE: A photo of a congested psychiatry ward at a hospital in Lahore. Photo by Demotix They Nazis in Germany would have executed them, and that would have been that. Hitler was seen as a savior in a Germany falling to pieces economically.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 10:04am
PAKISTAN: "The
Friendly Neighbor
Dec 20, 2012 10:09am
this trait which is so prominent among the Pakistani middle/upper middle urban class is not to be found in the so called original Muslims i.e Arabs. remember the pakistanis were most vociferous in their protest against the blasphemous film. is it a case of recent converts trying to prove their loyalty? next 20 years are going to be very crucial for the Islamic world and Pakistan in particular. i guess after they are done with the non believers they are going to train their guns towards "lesser" believers. hope there is an end to this madness and sanity prevails for sake of our future generations
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 10:14am
"There are websites out there glorifying some rather disturbed men and the most twisted conspiracy theories. " These are your Religious Nazis plain and simple, not ours. Muslims may think what they please, but these people are living on borrowed time in the West. Brits, Americans and Canadians are always ready for a fight, on or off the ice or the football field. We stopped the Japanese who were the same religious robots. The penalty for even looking at their emperor-god was immediate beheading. We have seen it all before. Nothing new for us.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 10:17am
Perhaps his very best!
roquefort
Dec 20, 2012 02:51pm
Have been in n out of England for the last 40 years n have seen lately that British Pakistanis or else r the most hated lot.N have seen women dressed like Ninjas n long bearded goons living on social security .Last but not the least enjoying the freedom of a free n secular society.
salman
Dec 20, 2012 02:53pm
Islamophobia - Islamomania NFP dig a bit deeper and you will find we are beyond it , now its ISLAMOPHRANIA
Cynical
Dec 20, 2012 10:32am
Good that NFP brings the education angle into the discourse. Surprisingly, I find so called uneducated poor people are less communal in their disposition than these urban educated middle class that NFP talks about. May be I didn't meet enough of them.
Ali
Dec 20, 2012 10:33am
Brother NFP, although I shall admit I am a fan of yours and agree with 90% of the things you say , I must have my reservation on one thing. You seem quiet sympethatic for Ahmedis, Hindus Christians and rightly so they are equally Pakistanis and most importantly they are human beings and we shall condemn all kind of attrocities against them, having said that I never see you sympathising with the Shia community as much. Even in your cartoons above you have mentioned Ahmedis, but no sign of protest against Shia genocide in Pakistan ?? do you even know how many kids have been orphaned and sisters being widowed in Pakistan just in last 5 years ? Habibi, we are equally muslims, human and Pakistani and I feel it bizare when I see no one cares for Shias in todays Pakistani Society. Just a thought my friend.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 10:34am
(Above Photo) "A cleric sits beside Farhat Hashmi (left) lecturing young Pakistani women at one of Al-Huda
ALi
Dec 20, 2012 10:40am
That was a very well written article NFP. Kudos!
rashid
Dec 20, 2012 10:47am
ACTUALLY SOME NEW GENERATION THINK THAT THEIR WORK IN THE world IS TO EAT BETTER DRINK BETTER EARN BETTER AND DIE LIVING ALL THE property FOR THE NEXT GENERATION WHERE OUR ACTUAL WORK IN THIS WORLD WAS TO WORK FOR ALLAH LIVE FOR ALLAH PRAY TO ALLAH AND FIGHT FOR ALLAH AS WERE DOING ALL OUR PROPHETS AND THE FATHER OF MANKIND ADAM (A.S) SO WHY WE SHOULD NOT DO WHAT WILL BENEFIT US IN THE REAL LIFE IN THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT TO LIVE A CONTINUOS BETTER LIFE FOR UNCOUNTABLE TIME WITH UNCOUNTABLE BLESSINGS.I
anand singh
Dec 20, 2012 10:48am
Well well... what a mess ! Look what have they done to my song ! This is what Jinnah would have sung had he been around. People seem to be on a death wish, undoing all that was good in the old school - culture, sufism, tolerance, co existence - you name it. All in the name of a harsher regime . The state meanwhile stands by and watches as brick by brick the structure that provided protection is dismantled. No one but the sane who exist in Pakistan are to blame. They are to blame for cowering down and looking away. A nation that fought for what was felt to be its right now seems to have given up and reconciled to the inevitable. Why ?
Cosmix
Dec 20, 2012 10:48am
What God wants, God gets......
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 10:51am
Shias are kinder, gentler Muslims, by and large. I have a very soft spot for the cleric Muktada Al-Sadr. A very distinguished imam in the UK told me he received his Masters degree in Islamic Studies writing his thesis on the life Mohammed Al- Wahab. Every Muslim should read one biography of his life and decide for themselves what is War, what is Jihad and what is Peace. There might even be a comparison here between Al-Wahab and the German cleric Martin Luther. One brought forth a Christian sect and the other a Muslim sect. Both felt forced by their integrity to fight for their beliefs, and put their lives at risk but in different ways.
rashid
Dec 20, 2012 10:53am
YOU CAN NEVER STOP GROWING ISLAM AND ISLAMIC THOUGHT IT WILL KEEP GROWING AS IT WAS AND THE INFIDELS JUST WILL KEEP WATCHING AS THEY WERE.ALL WHAT THEY DO TO PUT DOWN THE MUSLIMS THAT PUTS THEM DOWN THIS IS HOW ALLAH WANTS AND ALL WILL HAPPEN BY ALLAH.
krishnan
Dec 20, 2012 10:54am
Agree.awesome.May he live long
Mahmood
Dec 20, 2012 10:55am
A one sided portrayal of the reality, its always 'Us versus them.' Religious exhbitonism rings like another term 'enlightened moderation,' another thing is that they are both baseless and therefore had to be coined. Stop portraying a one sided notion of Islam and embrace the reality. Islam is a complete religion and therefore guides us regarding all aspects of life. If you don't find that reasonable then its up to you but the same liberalism should not be imposed on others. Clerics consistently denounce attacks on minorities but the 'Do more' mantra is applied on them as well. Also try to understand the other side maybe your hard line stance could alter in light of facts.
Sam
Dec 21, 2012 04:53pm
Brilliant question challenging the extremism. Can someone give an answer ?
rashid
Dec 20, 2012 10:58am
WE LIVE IN ISLAMIC STATE OF PAKISTAN and we will keep rising as WE MADE THIS COUNTRY FOR ISLAM NOT FOR NONMUSLIMS OR NEW TYPE OF OWN RELIGION MUSLIMS IT IS "ISLAMIC STATE OF PAKISTAN"FOR MUSLIMS AND WHO DID NOT LIKE IT CAN GET LOST.
yawar ali bhatti
Dec 20, 2012 11:06am
Lagay raho, Munna Bhai.
SleepingPaki
Dec 20, 2012 11:08am
I always thank Allah for bringing me in this world when a dictator (Zia) was in power and rightly said above, trying to codify our lives in Pakistan for any reason as per Islamic rules (whether you like them or not is irrelevant). Though living in west for almost a decade now I am getting stronger in my faith and more tolerant and practicing Muslim. I am proud of my identity of Muslim and Pakistani no matter how much you or other media try to defame it. Clearly Pakistan is divided into three camps, minority religious group with violent views towards anyone not agreeing with them, majority religious group trying to live a normal life and minority liberal group trying its best to survive and change the society as per its interpretation of modern world and acceptable behavior. I am not trying to judge your religious beliefs or otherwise but you represent a minority of people living in Pakistan and who think that only way out of this mess is by eliminating the other two groups and enforcing your or like minded ideology of western liberalism and confining the religion to places of worship. Pakistan is a Muslim country and will remain so InshAllah and we will come out of this mess once the west is out of Afghanistan and the region.
Pradip
Dec 21, 2012 11:00am
The comment was quoting someone else...someone rather famous compared religion with opium...research as to who it was, chances are you do not know and btw, please remove the Manto from your handle...that name sake would be happier.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 11:13am
"Too many Pakistanis, whatever goes wrong in society and politics in Pakistan is usually due to its external enemies
Rohail Aftab
Dec 20, 2012 11:15am
Ah, I see all the good faithfuls living in the West have arrived here. NFP seems to have poked them the wrong way but for all the right reasons. Why dont you guys come back? Also, NFP should also have spoken about how these Pakistanis living in the West believe they are better Muslims than us Muslims who are living in Pakistan. Brilliant take on the phenomenon, NFP. Hat's off for yet another insightful and thought-provoking article.
zalim_khan
Dec 20, 2012 11:16am
Excellent article bhai Nadeem! Keep the 'good work up"
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 11:18am
Three camps indeed. Anglophiles, Religious Nazis, and those who believe they finally understand the true meaning of Islam according to their sanctioned relations with others.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 11:20am
All capital letters = very angry person on the internet.
Mustafa Kamal
Dec 20, 2012 11:24am
Brilliant. At last religiosity will overtake society!!
Proud to be infidel
Dec 20, 2012 11:24am
Why are you shouting or you just don't know how to turn off your cap locks ? Or maybe just you are using halal keyboard :-)
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 11:25am
"SOME NEW GENERATION THINK THAT THEIR WORK IN THE world IS TO EAT BETTER DRINK BETTER EARN BETTER..." That part is the truth now all over the world. I can only hope we will all be on the Universal Internet for Eternity telling each other what to do.
AM
Dec 20, 2012 02:48pm
And perhaps the CIA contractor who shot dead two pakistanis in cold blood..
SleepingPaki
Dec 20, 2012 11:27am
Run, run as fast as you can. You can't catch me I'm a ginger beard man ;)
Cyrus Howell
Dec 20, 2012 11:29am
Yes they are getting lost in Canada, America, Australia, the UK and Western Europe. The Islamic State of Pakistan will rise once they all have left. Oh so true.
Proud to be infidel
Dec 20, 2012 11:29am
You just made your god sound like a gangster
Raoul Ciao
Dec 20, 2012 04:27pm
very true and relevant comment !
Raja Islam
Dec 20, 2012 04:28pm
You my friend are wrong. The article does not say the Islamomania comes from illiterates, but the writer is correct in pointing out that extremism comes from the lower middle and middle classes. These so called individuals are the ones who promote violence and extremism. Look at organizations like the Jamaat-e-Islami or MQM who's stronghold is the city of Karachi which arguably has a higher literacy rate than the rest of the country. These are examples of extremist organizations. The poor are worried about their next meal while the rich have more important things to worry about, it is the middle class that is the problem.
PakistaniPatriot
Dec 21, 2012 07:52am
We should stop the Islamists to take over Pakistan.
Murthy
Dec 20, 2012 04:28pm
I was reading Mr Nadeem PAracha since long .we need more and more Nadeems the present day Islamic societies to bring back the people -who are misguideed by fundamentalist Muslim religious organaisations - to their senses .I would call upon him to be moderate I his critisims to avoid the attention of these mad chaps would not hesitate to do physical harm to him.
G.Nabi
Dec 20, 2012 04:29pm
When you refer to NFP as former Marxist, it negates Marxism - he is a diehard jayala of dynastic leadership of Bhutto- Zardari clans. Ever seen any piece by NFP criticizing, satirising AAZ ?
Raja Islam
Dec 20, 2012 04:30pm
PTI and Imran Khan are a failure. The lack popular support and are not clear about the direction that they want to take. Think about it, a former westernized elitist playboy aligning himself with right wing fundamentalists and claiming to represent the Pakistani masses. How far is he likely to go?
Raj
Dec 20, 2012 04:30pm
Per you says that Pakistan should closed all the schools and universities in which they teach lessons from other text book other then quran. Am I right ?? Open the madressas at every corner of gully mohhalla that teach so called Pure Islam so that there will be only one camps of talibani islam. I don't surpirse anymore why more fanatic grows in Pakistan when I saw above picture of 'That's me'. When 50 % of the population willingly give up their right to express themself how can they give berth and nurtured decent human otherthen you. It is not your fault it's fault of upbringing and society is paying the price.
Raja Islam
Dec 20, 2012 04:31pm
Great read. Very well said.
abbastoronto
Dec 20, 2012 04:31pm
The uneducated poor know little how much Pakistan and Islam is behind the rest of the world materially. But the mobile ones, Aitchison and LSE educated, feel this perceived backwardness keenly. Are Muslims really behind? Of the 5 living Civilizations (Hellenized West, Christian Russia, Islam, Indics, Sinics) the West is the most advanced. And Islam is doing fine, thank you, if it were not, why would the best of the West be converting to Islam? Full 3/4 of converts are young (avg age 27), educated (above average), beautiful, nubile, white women from upper middle class families. Surely they have lived lives that our westernized youth can not even dream of, and still Islam lures them. Yes. They know that Gloria Mundi is just that, because they have lived through it. They have seen the future, and it is not the West. It is Islam. The Indics and Sinics are regional, racial. Christianity is other-worldly. That leaves the Corporate Capitalist West and Islam to battle out for the hearts and minds of the youth today as both systems are universal and city-based, Athens and Mecca. Since antiquity, there are many models of governance in the world: some with a handful of rulers (Monarchy, Oligarchy, Aristocracy), others with a bit wider base. The two most popular of the latter type are Democracy and the Republic. In short, Democracy is the rule of the fewer, the most moneyed, the Demos, the 5% males over the 95% rest (women, plebs, helots, slaves). The people serve the Demos. It stands for Law and Order, Laws made by the powerful. It emphasizes societal peace. The Republic is the rule of the Public, a government of the people, by the people, for the people, led by the most learned who serve the people. It stands for justice, giving each his due. It stands for Natural Laws ( or Divine Laws) like "All men are created Equal
Raoul Ciao
Dec 20, 2012 04:35pm
well let me tell you finally Rashid...My Beard Is Bigger Than Yours. So There. Sorry, but you ain't the Big Mullah you think you are ;-)
ahmad butt
Dec 21, 2012 08:52am
I shared the same sentiments, esp the last line, and the reply i got was the western evils has crept even in the mosques, esp the mobile ringtones, so do we bad mobiles from the masses. Shocking the muslim era of Spain that we hear about 700 years ago indicates that the msulims of today are jaahil lot, sounds like a failytale that they were advanced during that time.
cp
Dec 21, 2012 08:49am
As a religion no religion is bad, the people who became master /preacher . who impretes religion for their own power position has nothing to do with alah/jesus/ram/krishn. They are crook business man, who is running religios shop. Writer said it has nothing to do with uneducated/unemployed. I think when writer pointed out Uk educated/employed people... I think these educated people are just bookish and remebered sullabous like Koran without using brain, thats why they are like this. To be good, has nothing todo with modern education.
Raoul Ciao
Dec 20, 2012 04:38pm
.....to saudi Arabia, maybe? ;-) . Ain't that where a lot of Good muslims from pakistan are going for Jobs, and a chance to have multiple Haj visits?
Raja Islam
Dec 20, 2012 04:38pm
This is the Islamic fallacy. Do not do good and live a good life but inflict violence and terror on others so that one day we will go to eternal heaven. My friend the idea is to do good and live and peace. Help others and be tolerant. Do not impose your views on others under the false belief that you are doing God's work and that this will be a one way ticket to heaven. Don't forget that you are not God and may be wrong.
Cynical
Dec 20, 2012 04:38pm
Very succint. Respect all the way.
Raja Islam
Dec 20, 2012 04:40pm
There is a difference here. The religions that you mention are non-muslims, while the Shias and the Ahmedis are heretics.
babu
Dec 20, 2012 04:41pm
NP, now i get--- ,the title FISSURE IN THE MIDDLE--- ,in context of Zia ul haq ( from the case of exploding mangoes) brillant............
SleepingPaki
Dec 21, 2012 07:51am
Janab Sidda sadda banda, you are 100% correct that we Muslims tend to mix with and friends with Muslims only most of the time (I am talking about practicing Muslims living in west and not the ones with Muslim names only). The main reason for this is that we share a common culture and values. I live in UK and if I choose to go out with my fellow non Muslim colleagues then I have very little choice of where I can go. Mostly here people gather at pubs where they start by having a pint of Alcohol (which is forbidden in Islam) then they go out for dinner. Now only choice here for us is to eat vegetarian food, which is ok but as it is normally prepared in an environment where other non-halal food is prepared using the same tools, so it becomes doubtful for us to eat. That's why you see halal restaurants and shops in west doing a tremendous business. Secondly, yes being a Muslim the only two festivals we celebrate are Eids (though I know many MODERATE Muslims will disagree with me on this). We don't celebrate Christmas as its not our festival. We love Jesus as our prophet and follow his pure teachings. Now saying all that I must say that it doesn't mean that any of us should look down upon any non-Muslim fellow. As humans we are all equal and have same rights and responsibilities. I have many very nice colleagues who I like being with and enjoy their company. When I was working in Saudi Arabia I had a Hindu colleague and we used to go out for dinners (as every thing there was halal and no Alcohol). Islam define everything for Muslim from what we eat to what we wear, where do we go and who we friends with and what we celebrate. Its a complete way of life and I invite you explore the religion of Islam and its true message and I am sure you will find it attractive.
haris
Dec 20, 2012 04:45pm
Today, every author only highlights the 'Problems' but none discuss the probable solution. So did our beloved NFP. My question to NFP, if you don't agree with Imran Khan's agenda then please come out and present your version of bringing peace and prosperity within our society. Write about what significant steps should our people and society take in order to amend fissures. Please don't tell us what our problems are over and over again, We all already know them. Instead discuss likely solutions. Let me ask you one thing, what is so different in Imran Khan's vision of eradicating terrorism from West? If he says, he will try to eliminate terrorism through dialogue then how is it so different from US and its allies? after all they are also trying to do the same in neighboring Afghanistan and Iraq? aren't they? What they have achieved from 'War on Terrorism' in the past 11 years? Sorry NFP! but as like many other authors you also wrote a piece, full of sarcasm and criticism but nothing else.
Soul of Manto
Dec 20, 2012 04:46pm
You mean all that the Indians are doing all day and night, 24 x 7, is dishonouring their women in buses. You deserve a nobel prize in either 'Insight' or in 'Foresight' category, if and when they introduce one.
PatentHindu
Dec 20, 2012 04:49pm
Some politician want to make culture secondary in Pakistan and religion prominent in place of culture.If religion becomes prominent then cultural languages has no place in Pakistan. Punjabi,Sindhi,Balochi,Kashmiri,Urdu have their roots in Sanskrit(language of Hindu gods in which Hindu scriptures are written) the divine language of Hindus.All languages of Pakistan are product of Hindu divine language Sanskrit.The truth is all ethnic people of Pakistan are Hindus forcefully converted by the Arabs(Calif) after conversion too Pakistani Muslims continued their Hindu culture.I ask my Muslim friends, If you want to follow Islam you follow their language Arabic and their dress and culture but don't use our language which is Punjabi,Kashmir,Sindhi,Balochi,Urdu,Hindi etc and our culture of wearing colorful dresses like saree and salwar and instead wear hijab,nikab,burkha etc. I am asking my Pakistanis Muslims brothers and sisters please don't use Hindu languages and cultures if your not following Hindu religion.
babu
Dec 20, 2012 04:49pm
SleepingPaki ,i did not understand the gibbresh you wrote , your optimism is great but i am still willing to wait ...........
abbastoronto
Dec 21, 2012 03:20pm
Hinduji: Namaste Pakistan does not aspire to have a Pakistani culture. Islam does not believe in nations but Ummah. Thus says Iqbal: Cheen o Arab hamara, Hindostan hamara Muslim hain ham watan hai sara jahan hamara Yes, there is a worldwide Muslim culture. A Pakistani is an internationalist. Pakistanis do not believe in borders. Indian culture is also Muslim culture.
haris
Dec 20, 2012 04:53pm
"Stop this nonsense of yours in-apt views and third rated writing" Though your post has received few likes but many dislikes, I support your view. If people in the West has no problem with people like Dr.Farhat Hashmi and organizations like Hizbul Tahrir then WHY are we yelling against them?
babu
Dec 20, 2012 04:56pm
mahmood ,i like your humility and your optimism.good luck to you and your country
jalaluddin S. Hussain
Dec 20, 2012 04:57pm
It is not that simple. Imran Khan is popular because he is not corrupt. May he win more than a dozen seats in the National Assembly! Of course it will take some time. Let all the parties including "religious" fight the elections. Long live Pakistan and democracy!
babu
Dec 20, 2012 05:05pm
they should also not drive cars ,use mobile phones or internet ( oops -- who is going to watch blue movies now ? )
BT ( Kolkata )
Dec 20, 2012 05:05pm
@Sleeping Paki : Sir, No Indian is proud of what happened in Delhi, your comment is paradoxical and shows lack of wishful thinking. The shame is as much for us as it is for Indians living outside the country ? Which civilized Human being can be proud of such an incident, can you name one ? Are you proud when Pakistani Girls get acid thrown at their faces or killed for supporting Polio campaign, if not, then stop thinking like that for others, please.
aabdul
Dec 20, 2012 05:09pm
Those who are holding the banner 'Sharia for UK' have no idea what they are asking for. All the dole money, luxury of freedom they are enjoying will vanish in a second and most of them will eventually get tortured and killed by other Muslims fighting some stupid war. This is a classic example of what religion does to human mind. No wonder many experts call it dellusional. Christianity suufered this disease for 300 years and killed at least 28 million (mostly innocent women and children). Let us see how long it takes Pakistan to get over this madness.
Karachi Wala
Dec 20, 2012 05:20pm
May you live long to see the fruits of "Imranization". Ameen
SBB
Dec 20, 2012 05:23pm
So you're saying that your goal is to convert non-Muslim women to Islam to drive down the "engine of growth" in other religions? And that's Islam to you?
Karachi Wala
Dec 20, 2012 05:26pm
Aizaz Moin, what to do when mantle patient refuses the medicine?
Yawar
Dec 21, 2012 08:29am
As a British-Pakistani, I demand that all those fellow Muslims of mine b**ching about the West's 'immorality' should be bundled back to their home countries. And let me tell you they would not even be welcomed there. Especially Pakistan whose society maybe getting conservative it is still largely repulsed by idiots such as choudary and co.
Virkaul
Dec 21, 2012 08:15am
Good comedy
Replay
Dec 21, 2012 10:37am
Mr Abbas you are saying that all politicians of Pakistan have 1)Sold out Pakistan to America. 2)forgotten Islam. 3)Gave Osama(jihadist) to US. 4)Made Islam lose to foreign powers especially the Christians and Jews. Abbas they may come and catch you too,so please hide yourself.
Gujesh
Dec 21, 2012 08:13am
The main problems of muslims the world over is that they believe in the principle of finality. They believe that their truth is the only truth and the entire world should fall in line. Hindus are taught to meditate and question each and everything and are encouraged to find their own truth. (Of course, use of brain is inherent) . DARSHAN is alien to Islam. India has produced great hindu thinkers (in almost all centuries) who have meditated and explained correct meaning of religion. In 20th century, we had J. Krishnamurthy and OSHO and in 21st century we have Sri Revishanker.
raw is war
Dec 20, 2012 05:33pm
excellant article
AHA
Dec 20, 2012 05:33pm
Truth hurts.
Subbu
Dec 20, 2012 05:35pm
Great Article. Let us not give too much importance to religion
Mustafa Razavi
Dec 21, 2012 10:56am
Any culture India has is also Persian and Arabic, India's indigenous culture is just agriculture.
Yousaf
Dec 20, 2012 05:37pm
If you want to behave like this then don't move to the west. Stay home and spread Islam.
AHA
Dec 21, 2012 10:54am
"Stuck in between two blades of a Scissor". Interesting analogy. Liked it. I have a slightly different theory to our problem. 1,400 years ago, or even 1,000 years ago, Islam was more compatible with humanity than were the other religions at that time. I am talking about the extremely brutal world that existed at that time. Islam provided a better choice in terms of humanity at that time. Unfortunately for us though, other peoples evolved, but the Muslims did not.
AHA
Dec 20, 2012 05:38pm
So true. A 5 year old Pakistani already knows more about the fire in the hell waiting for him unless he does this or that, than he knows about how to respect others and appreciate life.
Salman
Dec 20, 2012 05:38pm
I'm a fan of Imran Khan and I believe in democracy and rights of all minorities. NFP don't judge me as you don't know me. Give me one good reason I should not vote for Imran. Why do you want me to vote for this rotten status quo - Zardari, Nawaz, Altaf and Asfand have given nothing but misery. Also. Faisal Shahzad doesn't represent second generation Americans in USA so your argument of comparing them to second generation Pakistanis in UK is absolutely incorrect. Most second generation Pakistanis in UK are mirpuris who were born to illiterate parents who moved to UK when Mangla Dam was constructed. Second generation Pakistanis in US are thriving. I'm just glad I don't live in Pakistan anymore and don't have to put up with Zardari/Altaf and co.
haris
Dec 21, 2012 10:53am
@AHA: I am not denying it. Its a Truth and I admit that. The point I want to make that no body is giving any solution yet everybody is so busy in pointing out problems again and again.
AHA
Dec 20, 2012 05:43pm
Veryyyyyyyyyyyyy long, but very informative. I think the thumbs down represent the prople who gave up reading after pulling some of their hair (I have none, so I read till the end).
Karachi Wala
Dec 20, 2012 05:44pm
@ Haris, the NFP has been giving solution by pointing out at the evil ways we as a society have adapted to. By doing away with the evils he has been pointing to, we can start afresh. Imran the cricketer we all loved. It is the evangelical Imran we fear. He never said how and what dialogue he has on his mind to pacify the determined Taliban ideology. He is often seen to align himself with JI. Is he naive or what? Does he not know their past and in the shape of Mr. Munawar Hasan their present? The west has its own vested interest and they will do what suits them. The question is what as a society we are willing to do to get rid of extremism in the name of Islam?
Abdul j Sheikh
Dec 20, 2012 05:48pm
you are another desktop warrior of PTI. Get of computer and get some productive education. Trust me, pti won't deliver anything you dreaming of.
Singh
Dec 20, 2012 05:51pm
Oh my god.......only hope for you is medication, these are not normal thoughts !!! And if you are really living in Toronto you know our free health care system will take care of you...of course funded and managed by Infidels......hope you will feel better soon.
Abdul j Sheikh
Dec 20, 2012 05:52pm
Desktop warrior can't deliver anything. What does pti promise to give you?
sal
Dec 20, 2012 05:52pm
"It is an outcome of the careless and selfish socio-political experiments that the state and some governments began to conduct using religion as the main component (some 35 years ago)." It was not 35 it started 65 years ago when Jinnah - a secular like ZA Bhutto used religion in politics. He sowed the seed of intolerance and refused the democratic pluralism. Bhutto and Zia just took it a step further. What Pakistan is doing now it is exactly what it supposed to as an ideology based state.
Taimur
Dec 20, 2012 05:56pm
How long we will be hiding under our so-called self-esteemed shadow of illusions, come on, writting is trying to explain things which most of us do not express or dont want to, we all know how many qualified solicitors and scholors are UK who attends this kind of meetings.
Abdul j Sheikh
Dec 20, 2012 05:57pm
The Muslims of today's are not a real representative of Islam. as regards pakistan, it's seeds were full of controversies.
haris
Dec 21, 2012 10:51am
@Abdul Sheikh: First of all, I am not a warrior of anybody. and secondly, you are like a typical Pakistani corrosive mind who doesn't have any opinion to share but instead try to infest others' opinion. No body ask you your assurance about PTI, we all know it very well. by the way! who are you going to vote? Ok, let me re-phrase my question; Are you going to vote in the next election? Did you ever voted or took part in any elections in the past?
Shan
Dec 20, 2012 06:12pm
I am Muslim and love my religion. What Muslims need is education and self esteem more than sheria law. Education will free us up from the chain of the most uneducated and brain dead Mollas who speak for Muslim... Shan
Ram Krishan Sharma
Dec 20, 2012 06:16pm
Why Anyone has to follow Hindu religion? First , Hindusim is not a religion because it has not been made by one single person like Moses , Christ , Mohammad or Budha . you can call it a philosphy or way of life. The word Hindu is infact Sindhu for people living in Sindh area. All Pakistanis are Indo Aryans by race and are related by blood to northern Indians who speak indo-Aryan languages. They don't have to speak Arabic or wear Arab dresses.
Abdul j Sheikh
Dec 20, 2012 06:16pm
"The Westerner earns 20 times a Muslim, but does not have 20 times children, does not live 20 times longer" What you talkin about?
Sidda saada banda
Dec 20, 2012 06:19pm
I am a Hindu from India , living in Canada for quite some time . May be my religious back ground disqualifies me to comment on the subject . But this is true that Muslims living here ( all of them I know , are from Pakistan ) have this strange kind of hesitation in mixing well with the other communities . Religion is such a bonding factor for them that the moment they find out any body is a Muslim in a gathering , they only interact with them and ignore the rest . This behavior is not only rude but also makes the rest look like untouchables . On their faces there is a conspicuous cheek to cheek smile but there seems to be a self imposed restriction which can not be missed at all . The other day I was at my daughter's school for the Annual Chistmas Concert . A girl new immigrant from Pakistan was also participating . She told my daughter that her father did not come to attend her performance because he does not celebrate Chritmas . Now , how does celebrating Chritmas in Canada threaten his religion ? Why choose a country where you feel so insecure about your religion ? And forget about Christmas , what about watching your child perform on stage for which they rehersed tirelessly for weeks . I mean , why did he choose to immigrate to Canada where 77% population is Christian and 16% don't believe in any religion . I also find it strange that the muslim pulation of Canada has increased by 129% in last decade , the highest of any other religion by huge margin !! Some people might reject my opnion especially coming out of a Hindu but I am no threat to my Pakistany friends . Its just that I find these facts very hard to digest . Being a Hindu , I can not offer suggestions or solutions for fear of , I might offend a Muslim P.S. Requesting moderators please allow my comments ...... there is nothing offensive here .
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 04:42pm
It tells me Dawn believes people are beginning to think for themselves.
ram
Dec 20, 2012 06:23pm
If you want to follow Islam you follow their language Arabic and their dress and culture ....It was arab tradition at the prevailing time. ABU JAHL also had all the quality you mention. Zia was compelled to use religion because of Soviet incurssion who wanted to reach hot waters of oil countries.USA refuse right help and so Saudia with their Wahabi teachings helped to create Taliban. When u r at war u have to use to fight with whatever have.Zia if remained alive for some time he had power to contain Jehadis
Pinto
Dec 20, 2012 06:29pm
The rape episode was isolated incident and not religious zealosy. Its neither silently backed by society in general like others.
Tawheed
Dec 21, 2012 10:31am
NFP is linking all the classes of Islam together which is COMPLETELY wrong. I practice my religion, I have a beard. But that does not mean I will blow myself up whenever I feel like. There is another line between practising muslims and extremist muslims which needs to be made clear. Please keep that in mind.
chump
Dec 21, 2012 11:24am
yakin maniye, ismay yahudio cia aur bharat ka haath hai.
Dr. Manmohan Zardari
Dec 20, 2012 06:50pm
well life expectancy is not highest among muslim states...pls check ur facts.lol
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 01:47pm
There is no room for Liberals on Earth, and no room for Christians in Paradise. Christians will obviously need to attend their own separate Heaven as True Muslims and Christians will have no unity - not even if it would take an eternity. That would still not be enough time.
Adil
Dec 21, 2012 10:28am
No matter where the writer starts, I often have noticed he will bring along cricketer-turned-politician and portray things about him which have no existence. He is anti war, anti taliban with a vision to solve the problem not let it be there like musharaf or zia. He is not using religion as a tool like zia or nawaz did, he is pro democracy and time has proved his stance. His problem is that he is targeting the direct evils of pakistani political system, he is chanting against corruption wide and open. So it is completely irrational to compare him to Zia or pro-establishment mind set.
Mahmood Haq
Dec 20, 2012 07:00pm
Dear Friend, Islam is not specific to any race, culture, language or region. It's teaching have been global from day one. I will strongly recommend you to read the last sermon of our beloved prophet Muhammad (S.A.W). http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/lastserm.HTM It is about beliefs and open to all human kind. It provides clear guidance to one who seeks. It does not promote any race or culture. Please carefully look at the criteria Prophet (S.A.W) has clearly mentioned in the below words. "All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action." Islam does not want any one to leave/change his/her culture, language or locality or even customs as long as they are not in direct conflict to Islam's teaching....It was, is and will remain a moderate religion. Unfortunately like all religions it's the later people who knowing or unknowingly try to take advantage by either misinterpreting the key teachings or molding it all together to their own benefit.. With respect to your point of forceful conversion, Muslims (Mughals) ruled over India over 350 years but Muslims still don't make majority in sub-continent (India, Pakistan and Bangladesh)...food for thought....
Karachi Wala
Dec 20, 2012 07:00pm
As far as right wing fundamentalists will allow.
Whodunit
Dec 20, 2012 07:02pm
Per your logic we were fish once as well. So please don't drink water unless you follow customs of fish.
Cynical
Dec 20, 2012 07:16pm
I agree and disagree. It
sraz45
Dec 20, 2012 07:16pm
Islam does not any such rules, Islam is universal. It instead encourages the culture of the land. Dress amd language is not of any particular importance, modesty in your dress and being a good citizen is more important. "Oneness of God" is paramount. Get your facts right first and then attempt to write your garbage. Most of today's recognition of India stems from what the Muslims left behind in literature, buildings, like the Taj Mahal and their cuisine. Before that you eat grass for the most part.
pankajdehlavi
Dec 20, 2012 07:16pm
You seems one of the potential entrant to the congested psychiatry ward at the hospital in Lahore shown above by NFP. Better you get admitted there, otherwise the rate of psychological ailments and disorders will increase beyond control.
sraz45
Dec 20, 2012 07:22pm
Further, most of Muslims live outside the sphere of the Arab world that you are trying to refer to. The largest population is in South Asia, Pakistan Bangladesh, India. FYI
just Islam
Dec 20, 2012 07:23pm
Thumbs up Bro! MashAllah!
doraha
Dec 20, 2012 07:32pm
Bravo: We, indeed, need thousands of NFP's in Pakistan. The mindset of lower middle and middle class must be changed. Someone in comments remarked that evolutionery process has stopped in the west. I believe he is totally wrong. This evolutionery process is infinitum...whosoever comes out of inorganic society and enters into organic society, the growth is there and continues. The whole episode narrated by NFP is completely true. \\Hope my friends in Pakistan read this multiple times to get what NFP wants to covey. Hip Hip HurAH nfp.
Moin
Dec 20, 2012 07:37pm
If Hindus were converted forcefully in India how come majority of India is still Hindu ?, you and about 800 Million other non-muslims of India is the living proof of justice and tolerance of muslim rulers who ruled india for about 1000 years and never abused them or forced them or hate them, they let them live with their own choice of faith and culture and that is why you are still a Hindu. It was the Sufis like Khuwaja Moinuddin Chisti Rahmatullah who preached Islam and Indian masses willingly accepted Islam. One of the other reasons why Indians accepted Islam was and still is that their is no cast system in Islam, Islam teaches that all humans are born eqaully, while majority of low cast Hindus are still being persecuted in India. Urdu and all other reigonal languages you mentioned are not derived from sanscrit, Urdu itself is a Turkish word meaning Army, all other languages you mentioned being spoken in sub-continent even before Aryans came to India. My native language is Urdu, it might be yours as well so it got nothing to do with religion, this is true with any other language in the world. Now if you so much belevie in what you said why don't you stop using Muslim Oil or Gas coming from Middle East, why don't you say NO to Muslim Jobs in Middle East, why don't you stop exporting meat to middle east, why don't you say NO to USA and the rest of the Beef eating world, can you say NO ?
Cynical
Dec 20, 2012 07:52pm
You keep coming back to western womens' assumed tilt towards Islam (an euphemism for Muslim men). I say this because you said it on another page. Are you suffering from some sort of sexual perversity of a white shade?
abbastoronto
Dec 20, 2012 08:03pm
Murthy: Namaste It is not the Fundamentalist/Taliban Muslims who are the problem. They are the lesser evil. In fact, they do not ask for much, and they can be accommodated easily as Jinnah did quickly in 1947. For the first time in troublesome NWPF there was peace in 100 years. It is the mainstream Islam that hates Christianity, Hinduism, the West, in fact the whole humanity. They always have. The 1,400 years of history of Islam is that of conquest, colonialism, and exploitation of others. But Islam was not meant to be so. Muslims should go back to the True Koranic/Mohammedan Islam, not these new religions. (The Shia sect was formalized 150 years after our Prophet, and the Sunni sect some 225 years after his death)
infidel
Dec 21, 2012 10:16am
Easy bro.. take a deep breath count till 10 and then exhale.. repeat it 5 times and see the difference.
Soul of Manto
Dec 20, 2012 08:06pm
But he was a Muslim who learned his Quran in Arabic faught for his ummah.
Capt C M Khan
Dec 21, 2012 09:28am
A GOALESS person in this world can do anything. The Uneducated Bussiness middle class has enough food and money to last thier life time, so they venture in ISLAMOPHOBIA to prove to the EDUCATED middle class that they are better than them. EDUCATED Middle claas keep on shifting thier GOAL POSTS and donot want to come out of thier comfort zone. Sad, in the end the POOR UNEDUCATED CLASS are the loosers.
Soul of Manto
Dec 20, 2012 08:10pm
You are right. You would have been equally right if you compared it with alcohol.
Obaid
Dec 20, 2012 08:11pm
Language, culture are separate from religion. Muslims in Arab lands have different culture than Muslims in China, India, USA, Mexico, etc. This applies to Christianity and other religions as well. No one can claim monopoly over language, literature, culture, etc
abbastoronto
Dec 20, 2012 08:15pm
secular Pakistan: AOA Here is why TPI will not fly. It will not even get off the ground. The word Insaf is pre Islamic, and not in the Quran.
Erfan
Dec 20, 2012 08:19pm
I fully agree with the vulgar exhibitionism of religion by the Muslims of Pakistan, portrayed by NFP in this article, but I disagree with your comments that all Pakistani languages grew out of Sankskrit, that all Pakistani cultures are Hindu in nature or that the current day Muslims were forcefully converted. While I respect Hindu religion and it's sacred books, there is no proof that they are as old as they are claimed to be and, in fact, it is not even known who the four Rishis were, where and how long ago. What is claimed is without any evidence. The problem is not with Islam but with those who are trying to monopolize it for personal gain. Islam is pluralistic and secular in nature and so was the society of it's founder in Madina. Unfortunately, Muslims have forgotten the Divine Teachings and their societies are the ones which are decadent as a result. .
Raj
Dec 20, 2012 08:19pm
If Imran fails to deliver then WHAT ??? Don't put all your faith on one guy otherwise he fails then there won't be anybody to recollect.
NY
Dec 20, 2012 08:28pm
I am surprised to read ignorant comments such as PatentHindu who want to Patent Hinduism. He claims to understand the root of Sanskrit but totally forgot about Buddhism who gave birth to modern Hinduism. Why don't you follow Buddhism if you want to follow their language? Please stop publishing intellectually challenged view of hate mongers.
Cynical
Dec 20, 2012 08:30pm
Stop this non sense. How dare you belittle Islam the religion of peace? There is Islam first and there is Islam last, nothing in between.
Cynical
Dec 20, 2012 08:35pm
You are almost at par with the Turkish reformer The great Kamal Ataturk. And this what he said,
M Khan
Dec 20, 2012 08:38pm
Kudos to AbbasL And to the thmbsdown brothers.... You will one day understand..
dkg
Dec 23, 2012 06:55pm
Muslims could not become majority in sub-continent not because of goodwill of muslims as you want to imply but due to great resistance shown by hindus. it is because of the atrocities by last strong mughal emperor aurangzeb to force conversion to islam and its strong opposition by Guru teg bahadur of sikh religion that lead to his execution in delhi. to save hindus from further atrocities of aurangzeb, Khalsa panth was formed in 1699 by Guru Gobind singh. This is all the part of history if at all you are interested to know it and that too correct. by this i am not saying that all muslims or islam are barbaric and their actions should not be confused with the teachings of islam but when people start defending their action under the name of islam and without knowing proper history, it bring disgrace to islam as people start attaching those atrocities to be the part of teachings of islam.
Tahir
Dec 20, 2012 08:45pm
Well I'll take a shot at answering you and saying what your beloved Khan will never say: Dismantle religion from the inside. Don't allow your children to learn some abominable text, parrot fashion, in a language that they don't speak or comprehend. Entirely disassociate the state from religion. Roll back every religious law implemented from the notorious ZAB ban on alcohol to the latest idiocy emanating from parliament. Ensure a secular education for every child - this, incidentally, includes girls. Stop wasting your money on expensive toys for the boys. India has no ambition on your lands beyond Kashmir. Can you do the above? I thought not, which is why you are where you are. NFP can preach weekly but nothing will change unless the people of Pakistan decide that the country they live in isn't paradise on earth.
Soul of Manto
Dec 20, 2012 08:46pm
There is no surprise in that. Muslims all over the world enjoy the hospitality of secular societies and abuse the right of free speech to promote sectarian ideas.
Tahir
Dec 20, 2012 08:49pm
Seriously? What world are you living in where you see bright, educated people converting to Islam wholesale? They're always disturbed people in the world, especially in prisons, but you're hallucinating.
Tahir
Dec 20, 2012 08:50pm
Can there be any hope for this country when you don't even see the horrible conditions that you're living under?
Tahir
Dec 20, 2012 08:51pm
But you obviously are.
butseriouslyok
Dec 20, 2012 08:52pm
Your voice is important not just for Pakistanis but for all hypocrites of this world. Thx
Tahir
Dec 20, 2012 08:54pm
Agreed the root of this problem is ZAB. He first lost hlf the country because he wanted power and later tried to out-Islamize the Islamists to keep power.
abbastoronto
Dec 21, 2012 03:11pm
Gujesh: Namaste Hinduism is even more corrupted than Islam today. Ancient Hinduism is the religion the closest to Islam.
mujtaba
Dec 20, 2012 09:08pm
NFP and Zia.fools both of them.wrong in different ways
Faiza G R Bhatt
Dec 20, 2012 09:08pm
i personally resent this allegation from NFP. in fact, i take it as a personal insult. this shows how anti-PTI funds are showing up in the media: "Its most recent advocate is cricketer-turned-politician Imran Khan. ..........at best, sounded like modern 21st century versions of former right-wing Pakistani military dictator, Ziaul Haq." this shows to what level a prestigious newspaper like Dawn will stoop down. just to lay down the facts, PTI represents all sections of our society. just a visit to its website shows the diversity. as for ratings, don't we all know who are those folks making them?
Suhas
Dec 20, 2012 09:16pm
Just love the last cartoon. Sums everything up!
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 04:25pm
Puritanism whether Christian or Muslim has one defining characteristic. The pure would rather sacrifice every human being than compromise their own righteousness.
majid canada
Dec 20, 2012 09:29pm
i agree.
ROHIT PANDEY
Dec 20, 2012 09:29pm
Seems a collectively sick thinking process- shows up in the increased number of psychiatric patients!
Naseer
Dec 20, 2012 09:30pm
It is incorrect that Islam was forced on Hindus in India. None of the Muslim rulers in India was a good Muslim. Aurangzeb Alamgir fought with his brothers and arrested his father to become the king. This is not Islamic. Islam was actually accepted by people voluntarily seeing the likes of Khwaja Ajmer Chishti, Lal Shahbaz Qalandar and other saints. As for language or customs. Islam does not stop anyone from speaking any language or following any custom. It is the likes of Taliban that have created hatred for Muslims and Islam. Although they too have nothing to do with Islam. Taliban just use the name of Islam for their political benefits. Fact is that no religion, be it Islam, or Hinduism, or Christianity or Judaism, spreads hate or injustice. It is some followers who use the name of religion to justify their own selfish agenda.
ROHIT PANDEY
Dec 20, 2012 09:33pm
Fellow Canadians like you SCARE me!
Raja Islam
Dec 20, 2012 09:34pm
How can one seventh the population of the world claim that they are right and everyone else is wrong?
Raja Islam
Dec 20, 2012 09:42pm
Start by banning all religious and ethnic parties. Recruit members of the law enforcement agencies on merit. Increase salaries of public servants to encourage honest and educated persons to join.
Puneet
Dec 20, 2012 09:43pm
The world is hungry for leadership and only islam can provide it!! Just like in Pakistan, Afganistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi????? I can only laugh at this comment. No wonder Pakistani education system is in bad shape.
Puneet
Dec 20, 2012 09:47pm
Where did you learn that western constitutions are based on Islam!!!! Pakistani schools?????
Waqas
Dec 20, 2012 10:05pm
Really unnecessary and sad comment, civilizations have evolved through the ages, while it is a good idea to read, understand and appreciate our history, negative comments do not do anyone any good. People have to strive to be good and understanding humans and evolve beyond the shackles of narrow mindedness.
Waqas
Dec 20, 2012 10:15pm
Unfortunately your reasoning lacks logic: Education is supposed to enlighten your minds and make you a rational human being. It does not take much common sense to realize that all religion are man made instruments to control people. If there is god, he doesn't need any religion and neither did he create one, for all men are the same before him and henceforth all religions are equally unnecessary. You do not need a religion to be a good person, and therefore you do not need to convert to become a better person. You can choose to be a good person no matter what. Think beyond just degrees, I know plenty of physicians and engineers who hold the best of degrees, but when it comes to religion they seem to loose their logical thinking. The same "educated" ones are converting.
AT
Dec 20, 2012 10:20pm
Wow ............ your delusion both amuses and scares me.
Ali
Dec 20, 2012 10:33pm
Rashid, you need some counceling brother, You really need some help. I feel you have too much pain in your heart or you just simple seem to be a product of Al Wahab Factory.
Ali
Dec 20, 2012 10:39pm
Raja Islam, You need to change your name to Raja Munafiq....Only Allah will decide if Shias are heretics or not, you look like a graduate from Saudi Arabia with no job or hope in life. Why dont you move to afghanistan????
observer
Dec 20, 2012 10:46pm
My forefathers may have been converted by force or they may have embraced the message by their free will. I did not find any diary of events running through my family. Regardless of that, my faith is the most prized possession of my life. If I meet the Arab that forced my forefathers to convert to Islam, I will thank him for what he did. I will also tell him to stop converting people by force because oneness of God is a beautiful and logical concept and using force to propagate this message is not fair. But honestly, my understanding of human nature does not permit me to believe that forced conversion can be this deep and lasting. On the other hand, Culture is a territorial concept and I continue to wear what I wear and speak the language I speak and be Muslims at the same time. If Islam had told me to give up the territorial culture as part of my basic belief system, I would have done so. Keep in mind that I am not a fundamentalist Muslim and I do not approve of militancy at all. I am not a spokesperson of Muslims or a class of Muslims. Militancy and violence are political reactions of a part of Muslims of today (or have been so for some in the past). These are temporary phenomena. But I do not identify my religion as being violent in its character. To my personal understanding, Islam is not supposed to be believed in any ambigious or apologetic terms. If people cannot draw the line between being unapologetic and violent, it is their limitation of intellect. There have been and are millions of Muslims who are not violent and are opposed to militancy. Please don't judge Islam by temporary political reactions of a few Muslims or even by the political reactions of a majority of Muslims. Be fair and honest. Leave margin for political reactions. Leave margin for non-militant Muslims even if they are a minority.
Abdul Hasan
Dec 20, 2012 10:54pm
NFP, your articles are normally brilliant. In comparison, this one was average. Perhaps you wrote this one in a hurry. I am a fan of yours and admire your bluntness towards how Islamisation has destroyed Pakistan. However, you blame the Zia regime for what has happened in Pakistan post 1978-79 in almost every article. I would personally like to read your views about the solution and not the problem. Your readers are well versed with your stance on that. Cheers !!
Abdul Hasan
Dec 20, 2012 11:03pm
*Rightly blame
bakhshu
Dec 21, 2012 09:46am
If one is a Muslim, invariably due to the language of the Quran (Arabic), some influence can't be avoided. Plus remember, Urdu itself is a mixture of Hindi/Sanskrit, Arabic, Farsi, Turkish, etc. So the Arabic influence has been there for centuries, it's not something new and recent. So what's your suggestion: keep the faith or reject it? By the way, India is doing the same thing, no offense meant, I have many close Hindu friends, but it is blindly adopting the US culture and forgetting its own.
Ashher Siddiqui
Dec 20, 2012 11:07pm
Hmm , sorry Patient Hindu I am unable to understand the link between languages and Religion. So what you implying that all hindus in Pakistan and in India should wear Dhoti Kurta and Sarhee, and the Christain men in Pakistan and around the world should be wearing Long robes and christian women should be dressed like nuns...please grow up . FYI......Urdu derives primarily from the Khariboli dialect of Delhi, and incorporates a large amount of vocabulary from Persian, Arabic, Sanskrit and Turkic.
zafarov
Dec 20, 2012 11:07pm
@abbastoronto You can enumerate all the ills of the West and predict its demise and indeed their abuse of power is glaringly obvious. But it those very societies that ooze out creativity and innovation in every field of human endeavour. They encourage and promote human curiosity. To question. To examine. To research. To critically analyse. No entrenched belief system or organised religion is exempted. And if new findings disprove previous discoveries, they are welcomed and adopted. Nothing is considered final and complete. Hence knowledge is constantly renewed and widened. Criticism and debate is integral. It really is time for Muslim societies to take an honest long hard look at themselves and no matter how much we fantasise that we are destined to become champions, the fact remains that Muslims have been intellectual parasites particularly in science and technology for over 700 years and there is not even flicker of hope that a change is in the offing.
Sagar
Dec 20, 2012 11:08pm
ha ha ha, We also have these nuts in Hindu, hopefully not terror-friendly... Subject ???? ??, ???? ????? ???? ???? ??...
Patriot Pakistani
Dec 20, 2012 11:13pm
Mr Paracha has started the story from the middle.He has forgotten that it was Liaqat Ali Khan who way back in 1949 got Objectives Resolution passed thus bringing religion into state and thus burying Qaid-e-Azam's Pakistan under tons of religious fervor,If somebody has harmed Pakistan in its infancy it is Liaqat Ali Khan.Then Punjabi civil servants sewn the seeds of separation between the two wings of Pakistan.Then came the handsome Hazarewal who manipulated election against Mather-e Millat although she trounced him in East Pakistan.He gave the reigns of Government to his successor Rangeela Yahya Khan.When the Mullah and Military got defeated they wanted a savior and a sacrificial bull and they found it in Bhutto.The Evil Religious parties of Mullah's got hand in hand with Military and overthrew him and murdered him.They got their man in a willing and a vile General who set upon destroying the tolerance and decency and peace of the country and totally succeeded in it.He brought to Mullah not only street power but one other element he was lacking Arms and Ammunition.Now Mullah with Munitions took control of hapless Pakistani's and changed the game in his favour.He declares who is Muslim and who is not,West is evil and supporter of Israel and that they should be tought a lesson-they had no dearth of recruits and they efficiently organised to indoctrinate immature brains with hate and anger and today we are reaping what we have sown over the decades.
Ali S
Dec 20, 2012 11:21pm
You're probably a fat aunty who doesn't look good either, so stop snickering
MUNIR
Dec 20, 2012 11:23pm
Nadeem you are mixing two things. One is Muslims in Pakistan and abroad really do wish to practice a pure form of Islam. The violence by some young people is a separate issue Little history lesson here which I am sure you are very well versed is that Pakistan was created for the Muslims to be able practice Islam freely without any constraints Strange religious environments have developed in Pakistan due to elitism, repeat of secular governments, secularism being shoved down the throats of Muslims of Pakistan and bashing of Islam by liberal and secular forces. Nadeem remember one thing that Muslim is always a Muslim and really dislikes other tearing apart his/her religion. Secular forces over the years have defamed (made fun of) religious teachers, scholars, practicing Muslims and tried to bend (have succeeded lately) Pakistani Muslin society practices in to a western values. The end result is that the Pakistani society is now confused. They do not really know their religion that well and trying to practice western culture that they have no idea how to do. The practicing Muslims are now having to resort to all kind of method to protect Islam form western and secular forces ( I do not Condon violence). Both camps have drawn rigid lines and fighting (in the media and in practice) to protect their side.
kamran
Dec 20, 2012 11:26pm
none of these names mentioned above preach true islam. farhat hashmi and co, they are totally unislamic..they only preach arab culture, which is NOT the islamic culture.
Faiza G R Bhatt
Dec 20, 2012 11:31pm
NFP and readers should read the following article from a PTI leader coming from a 'minority' Pakistani to really understand where it is coming from, before giving a dose of lies to us: http://www.insaf.pk/Media/InsafBlog/tabid/168/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/14193/THE-2013-ELECTIONS-By-Samson-Simon-Sharaf.aspx
Mohammad
Dec 20, 2012 11:32pm
What the Taliban are doing people in the west have an abhorrent view of Islam. There used be some conversions before , NOT NOW. Where did you get your information. I have seen many Christians who wanted to marry a Muslim woman agreed to convert to Islam. Not any more. Islam has been given a very bad image in the West. There have Quraan burning, torching of mosques and killing of innocent Sikhs because they looked Muslims. It is very bad picture of Islam right now. Osama and the extremists have done a lot of harm to the West but the greatest harm they have done is to Islam. These are the facts.
AHA
Dec 20, 2012 11:58pm
PPP, ANP and MQM surely share some of the blame when it comes to extreme violence, but their responsibility is tiny when compared with that of the Islamists, the religious parties and the political parties that support the terrorists.
S.A. Hyder, Ph.D.
Dec 21, 2012 12:03am
If you love these people then you are not human. These people belong to the same category. The one thing that differentiate these people from humans is the complete absence of tolerance in their preachings and practices. Any one who does not believe and follow their footsteps is, according to them, a kafir bound to Hell. Unfortunately, what they do not know is that they are the very fuel of Hell. How fortunate for the rest of us!
AHA
Dec 21, 2012 12:04am
External? And what exactly is that?
P Setra
Dec 21, 2012 12:22am
When you are in power, hypocrisy/bigotry becomes your right.
Simon
Dec 21, 2012 12:30am
Keep dreaming in Toronto and wait for the direct deposit!!!
Liberal fascist
Dec 21, 2012 12:32am
You don't love Islam rather you hate it and are bent on destroying it. We, the liberal fascists, in fact love the real Islam!!
Muba Khan
Dec 21, 2012 12:35am
I don't know much about politics but little about our history. Anytime when you have government of a country interfering in people
P Setra
Dec 21, 2012 12:37am
Come on! Are you not implying opposite to what Pakistanis have been trying to establish. They want to be called Arabs, sir, for your information. Pakistanis have been trying to establish that they are, they have been, and they will be much different from rest of the world, especially Hindus. For that, they even cooked history, resorted to religious cleansing, legislated strict Islamic laws which even Saudi Arabia does not have. May God let them succeed. The world is watching, see what they end up with, the process is very much unfinished so far.
pankajdehlavi
Dec 21, 2012 03:29pm
hey have already taken it over way back in 1947 and then in 1980s. Now, is the time to take it back.
J, Ali
Dec 21, 2012 02:49pm
Cant agree with you more, man. If there is one God, (i believe there is), then why did he create Chinese, Japanese, pretty much everybody but sunni hardline Pakistanis if the rest of us were going to hell. What ever religion you follow needs to make sense. It needs to answer questions such as What is God? Where is God? and what will happen to us after death. Instead hardliners in Pakistan ask the following questions, How long should i keep my beard? How can i suppress the rights of those who don
drzahidpervez
Dec 21, 2012 01:05am
the writer really works hard in elaborating different aspects as always because of his particular bias he misses to justify and deliberately ignores those sections contributions he dislikes..
Nasir
Dec 21, 2012 02:48pm
The whole article is about Pakistani Islam, You are missing the the point of this article. Please pay attention to the article
abbastoronto
Dec 21, 2012 02:48pm
It is precisely the same war that was being waged the day our Prophet died. On one side was the pro-Christian, pro-poor, pro-peace, pro-progress Islam of the Medinan Majority. On the other side was the anti-Christian, pro-war Islam of the miniscule Meccan Minority. Then, the latter one. Today, they will not. The world will not allow it.
Saeed
Dec 21, 2012 01:27am
You can like what ever you Want .But our problem we want other people should join us and only option we know violence , hate and anger. And the people you hate are the one representing Pakistani . I mean any Pakistani can join them irrespect of religion or race ,language or region
Waseem
Dec 21, 2012 01:37am
There is no hope or anything encouraging coming from this country. I am disappointed, dimaysed and ashamed I am a part of this hypocrate society.
Tanveer from Sialkot
Dec 21, 2012 01:39am
Practice what you preach and please get out of Canada to your land of blast.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 02:11pm
"chanting against corruption." A most excellent phrase.
Pakistani
Dec 21, 2012 01:47am
Nice picture of the late Mardi-Momin
KHAN
Dec 21, 2012 02:05am
IF PAKISTAN IS EXAMPLE OF ISLAMIC STATE,THEN ISLAM DOES NOT NEED ANY OTHER ENEMY.
, USA
Dec 21, 2012 02:07am
Nadeem you can write as long as you want but you know full well that it is already too late. Any one who dares to open his mouth against the bigots gets garlanded for killing some one whom he considers "not a good muslim" by his standards. It is all subsidized by petrodollars, the masaajid and the madrassas to spread hatred and death. Tackle them and Pakistan will pull itself together.
HigsBoson
Dec 21, 2012 02:07am
NFP you say about Imran and PTI that " they see democracy to be a threat to Pakistan
G.A.
Dec 21, 2012 02:10am
You need to think beyond Imran Khan. He is sincere about helping Pakistan and there is no doubt. It's the powerful religious lobby that is going to hijack his victory which is the problem. NFP understands this. Mullahs have never won an election in Pakistan. Imran Khan is their Trojan horse and they will sideline him if PTI wins.
Nasir
Dec 21, 2012 02:14am
Which Islam are you talking about?? None of the coverts are influenced by Pakistani Islam, I don't think you have met any of them. The name Islam can't be used loosely anymore thanks to our Islamomaniac friends. I live in Toronto too but I don't see the "unhealthy west" that you see here, I don't see West loosing it's women to islam either do you have any data to support your opinion?? And please tell me why is it that questioning abuse of Islam is Pakistan (as done in this article) is always taken as Islamophobic??
Nebu
Dec 21, 2012 02:22am
Please refer this report on American Muslims from The Pew Research Centre: http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf. I belive this will clear a few doubts on conversion statistics. Which democracy survives without elections of any kind? Life expectancy in most of the 'infidel' countries at birth (US 78.2 years, India 65.5 years) is longer than in Pakistan (65.2 years). Not every American is pill-popping, pills are more expensive there as opposed to Pakistan. And is having more number of children without earning as much a good sign?
Scott
Dec 21, 2012 02:40am
Then I would suggest also don't speak English because if you do then never wear an Indian dress either... nough said
Sanjiv
Dec 21, 2012 02:45am
And where does the writer place the 1.3 billion Chinese in his categorisation?
AHA
Dec 21, 2012 01:40pm
Bull's eye. A religion like Islam cannot survive without a belief in its ultimate superiority. Extremism is the natural and only possible outcome.
Babu Khan, Lucknow, India
Dec 21, 2012 02:48am
Pakistan has done grave damage to Islam. They think they are the sole protector of Islam than Arabs. This thinking has to change. Every bad man caught in the West has gone through Terror University of Pakistan. Pakistanis in America call themselves Indians. What a shame for shameless Pakistanis.
cham
Dec 21, 2012 02:57am
Bal Thakre still alive...
Sandip
Dec 21, 2012 01:38pm
you are funny :-)
RazaH
Dec 21, 2012 03:00am
The cartoons really summed up the whole picture A photo of posters showing the Buckingham Palace with minarets used by people such as Anjum Chaudhry to propagate the enforcement of Sharia in the UK would've been the icing on the cake
Rao
Dec 21, 2012 03:01am
Hi Feroz, It is not a waste of time & space. You cannot be so pessimistic and let the situation get worse. People like you & NFP should stand up and protest and take measures in your own small ways to turn the tide. Be positive and band with like minded to make those small positive changes
Jauhar M. Shaikh
Dec 21, 2012 03:02am
As usual , another Indian prowling Pakistani websites with their warped version of Shining India. Stay home, sort out your own slums & troubles.
cham
Dec 21, 2012 03:02am
Hamid Zaid sir, you're posting the same script on every subject.
AHA
Dec 21, 2012 01:37pm
Hear, hear.
Jauhar M. Shaikh
Dec 21, 2012 01:36pm
Well said Moin. It's amazing that so many Indians continue to sniff on Pakistani websites in heated debates . The bias & bigotry amazes me.
Rao
Dec 21, 2012 03:14am
It is the Saudi version of Islam. Saudis have the money, but not the masses willing to propagate. Pakistan do not have money but have huge mass of people willing to work for Saudis. Perfect match.....This process will continue till Saudi oilwells dry up
Bakhtawer Bilal
Dec 21, 2012 03:17am
No one is going to come and stop you from loving Islam. Problem is if I do not show outwardly love and follow your suite, the kind of yours come after me to harm me. That is the difference between you and me. And loved your smiley. If it is from the heart.
dkg
Dec 23, 2012 07:11pm
let islam provide leadership to muslim world first!!
Hindu
Dec 21, 2012 07:43am
A country which does not respect the indigenous culture will perish,this is what is happening in Pakistan. Pakistan is trying to follow Islamic culture of Arabia but its falling short of it.You may follow Islamic culture of Arabia but Arabs will not consider you as Arabs. Kawwa Challa Hans Ki Chaal.
Khan
Dec 21, 2012 03:32am
Indians write their own history ,USA refuses to help, it's the USA war which Pakistani fought and suffering till now. Go and see Charlie's Wilson war starring Julia Roberts. Osama was on the payroll of CIA
G.A.
Dec 21, 2012 01:31pm
Islamomania on Facebook: How many likes for ....
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 02:41pm
Israel will save itself, as it has always done. Pakistan will not save itself because it is sinking into confusion and terror.
Sandip
Dec 21, 2012 01:30pm
What NFP is saying that compared to earlier times show of religious beliefs has become more prominent. e.g. if there were 1 on 100 person having a beard now there are 10 in 100 having a beard. Now if we expand this stats more, "IF" there is a stat which says that 1 on 2000 person having beard will blow themselves up this means previously it would be 1 in 200000 will blow himself up and now that would mean 1 in 20000 would blow himself up. This is where the issue happens. I am Hindu but keep my religion in my house or in my temple. Will go and pray in temple and then come home, I wont preach to anyone what they should or not do as per hindu religion. Leave it with them for practice. Dont even talk to my parents who stay in same house as me as to how to practice religion.
AHA
Dec 21, 2012 01:27pm
He is a mole of the establishment.
Rao
Dec 21, 2012 03:56am
Quite frank.....
Mizanur Chowdhury
Dec 21, 2012 03:59am
Plz stop blaming the US/west for everything. Mind your own barbaric wrongdoings. The mistake Jinnah made in 1948, Ayub in 60's, drunk Yahia in 71 Pakistani junta is making the same mistake in 2012 ! It's a shame that in 21st century Pak is still ruled by Military junta with spineless civil govt just for show. I'm a muslim but I strongly believe that more you embrace puritan 7th century Islam, you'll regressed to 7th century Pak. Also Zia punched the final blow to Pak by creating a madrasa state with Saudi/US $. Pakistan need a secular leader, big time. Pak-Watcher
AHA
Dec 21, 2012 01:26pm
I know many deeply religious Muslims who are also excellent humans. But they are now a minority. A vast majority of people with religious appearances carry hardline views these days, most are extremists, and many are outright violent and full of hatred for others who do not
chump
Dec 21, 2012 04:04am
lazy attitude..
chump
Dec 21, 2012 04:08am
If not Pakistani, What are you btw? And what connection you have with moderator? You get published with any single word you type!!! I'm just curious.
usama
Dec 21, 2012 04:12am
yes you are 100% the next bal thakray...
chump
Dec 21, 2012 04:14am
Comments Guide: 5. Avoid posting comments in ALL CAPS. Commenters are also encouraged to avoid text contractions like 'u r.'
Chaman
Dec 21, 2012 02:46pm
Not true my friend. Indians in western countries pick up the best from the adopted countries and retain the best parts of their own culture.That happens only when one keeps mind open to all that is beneficial to contribute to their intellectual betterment. Our cultures also lack some qualities that the west has shunned as they understood the futility and uselessness of past beliefs and practices. If that were not true, what explains why misery prevails in our countries and western countries are so prosperous and innovative. Time to think issue deeply my friend.
chump
Dec 21, 2012 04:25am
Funniest comment, I've found on dawn till now. Moderator's too happy..
Rajesh Kumar
Dec 21, 2012 04:29am
You are correct about Persian language being in existence long before Islam arrived in Persia and English widely in use before Christianity arrived in UK. However, neither Persians nor English denounce their ethnicity and believe that they are descendants of Arabs and Bedouins unlike Pakistanis who believe that they have no connection with India and they are descendants of Arabs. All those Pakistanis who believe that they are descendants of Arabs/Turks/Central Asians should preferably adopt foreign language and culture as rightly mentioned by @PatentHindu.
abbastoronto
Dec 21, 2012 02:41pm
AHA: AOA It is the deeply religious Muslims that worry me the most. Let us look at the sorry state of the 5 Principles of Islam 1.Shahada: The god and the prophet The Allah of Quran is an Abstract External powerhouse of 99 Attributes in infinite measure. He can not be seen [7:143]. He is
Raj
Dec 21, 2012 04:33am
You made my day. See how many response you got for your stupid comment! You prove that you can provoke Pakistani very easily. Instead of ignoring your comment they are debating on it. Hahaha!!!!
chump
Dec 21, 2012 04:36am
Comments guide: 4. Language that is offensive to any race, religion, ethnicity, gender or nationality is not permitted. be soft my friend.
induan
Dec 21, 2012 04:38am
great thought
chump
Dec 21, 2012 04:40am
learn From India?? are you kidding me? Non secular NarendraModi got re-elected for the third time despite of being accused of corruption of trillions.
Rajesh Kumar
Dec 21, 2012 04:43am
No, we didn't eat grass as our culture was way more advanced before Islam arrived in India. There are significant evidence of amazing Indian architecture dating back to thousands of years, e.g. Konark temple, Ajanta/Ellora, and many other amazing artefacts found all over the country. Nalanda University is recognized as the oldest University in the world. The concept of zero was invented in India. Quadratic equation, concept of infinity and the value of pi was already known to Indian ancestors (watch BBC documentary) long before Islam arrived. Taj Mahal and many other Mughal architecture was conceptualised by the Mughals, but was built by the Indians including recently converted Indians. GDP of India in those days was the highest in the world and the Arabs didn't come here to eat grass, but to loot and plunder considering that Somnath temple was attacked 7 times and all its wealth taken away. Get your facts right buddy.
Nasir
Dec 21, 2012 02:40pm
Correction before 1979, Pakistan was a great place to hang around.
ConfusedPakistani
Dec 21, 2012 04:50am
I don't think you get what's being said. Pakistan is made up of different cultures, Sindhi's, Punjabi's and the like. Culture is essential in helping keep any society together, and functioning. Do you really believe an Islamic, awakening or revolution led by Pakistan's already confused middle class, is going to help the illiterate masses whom along with being deprived of basic necessities, are now being force fed religion in every aspect of their being as their only salvation?, instead of a true struggle for their civil rights and liberties?. Islam as a cultural identity cannot bind a country as culturally and ethnically diverse as Pakistan, it is every ones personal matter. Saying that Muslims live longer and happier lives than Westerners is rubbish, what about the poor Muslim masses in Pakistan, in Somalia, in Sudan? are they happy?. Remember that the myopic view of the Pakistani middle class and clergy today is what's killing us, culture cant be erased, we are not Arabs, Muslims yes but culturally one with India. So i believe you should think twice before saying Islam is the only salvation of illiterate masses, without access to basic necessities, as opposed to a struggle for these rights. Without this corrupted middle class Pakistani view of religion clouding an already murky picture.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 02:38pm
Yes. The war of the mad dogs.
Rajesh Kumar
Dec 21, 2012 04:55am
The Hindustani language evolved from a language widely spoken in parts of UP called "khari boli". The grammar and composition of Hindustani language comes from Sanskrit and vocabulary comes from Sanskrit, Arabic, Persian, Turkish, etc. The Hindustani language was widely in use until 19th century when Muslims started using more and more of Persian and Arabic vocabulary and Hindus started introducing more and more of Sanskrit vocabularies. What is their to a language without its grammar and composition because you cannot have a language with vocabulary only.
Mawish
Dec 21, 2012 05:00am
You are right sir. I totally disagree with the ideology of Imran khan and politicians like him. My role models are Mr. Zardari and Mr. Altaf Hussain , who have done such a great job in creating a secular Pakistan. Afterall, they have strengthened democracy, finished poverty, eradicated corruption, established law and order, created jobs, provided justice to the masses, empowered women, eliminated crime, established peace in karachi, the list goes on. So much to be proud of. I hope people of Pakistan re-elect these secular parties again if they want to see a truly democratic Pakistan.
raja
Dec 21, 2012 05:02am
totally agree.. with khansaab
Sikander
Dec 21, 2012 05:06am
To : PatentHindu. To explore more on the invention of the languages being spoken in Pakistan, I suggest you to study history first. It should be clear that Pakistanis do not speak the language of Hindus. Like most other languages of the world, Urdu also started its literature through poetry. Amir khusro (1253-1325) a remarkable scholar of Persian and Arabic is considered to be the first ever poet of Urdu language. The word
Waheed
Dec 21, 2012 05:10am
So much so about the beliefs of Muslims. Their practical lives are no less deplorable. Nearly 75% do not observe the daily prayers or the annual fasts. Excepting the two Eids, millions of Muslims cannot find the few minutes needed for the daily prayers. Those who join the daily prayers do not observe all the rules and proprieties. Nobody pays Zakat or obligatory alms. Of those who pay, very few, hardly 2%, do so willingly. The Islamic laws of inheritance are being ignored altogether. Taking of interest, described in the Quran as making war on God, is now an almost universal vice. Moral grace, once the birth-right of all Muslims, now seems as remote as Kufr (disbelief) is from Islam. As far as the first type of Muslims are concerned, they have in their ignorance neglected what the Holy Quran had already prophesied in 25:31: "O my Lord, my people indeed treated this Quran as a thing abandoned." There is also a saying of the Holy Prophet to the effect: "There will come a time upon the people when nothing will remain of Islam except its name and nothing will remain of the Quran except its inscription. Their mosques will be splendidly furnished but destitute of guidance. Their divines will be the worst people under the sky; strife will issue from them and avert to them." In view of such a state of affairs, the fallacy of the first type of Muslims needs no further elucidation; particularly when we have the glad tidings given by the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of God be on him, regarding the appearance of Mujaddids (regenerators) and that of the advent of the Mahdi and Messiah. "What will be your condition when the son of Mary will descend among you and he will be your Imam from among yourselves." (Bukhari, Kitabul Anbiya, Bab Nazool Isa)
Rajesh Kumar
Dec 21, 2012 05:17am
Considering that 18 out of 75 have rated your comment up and assuming that 15 out of 75 are non-Pakistanis who have rated your comment down, the ration of 18:60, i.e. 30:100 is a very serious indication of where thinks are heading in Pakistan. Wake up the liberal Pakistanis.
raja
Dec 21, 2012 05:25am
enemy's problem is as good as morphine or opium. Try that on some Indian, Israeli, US or UK website to get the same evil pleasure.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 02:32pm
... and everywhere else.
Ahmed
Dec 21, 2012 05:32am
You have mentioned the start of experimenting with religion as a central component some 35 years ago. But, wasn't it Mr Jinnah who had asked for " a piece of land...a laboratory where we could experiment on Islamic principles" ? Of course, he did. And, now we know that the experiment failed.
Rajesh Kumar
Dec 21, 2012 05:33am
"How can one seventh the population of the world claim that they are right and everyone else is wrong?" - By believing that God is racist who chose to enlighten them leaving 6/7th of the humanity specially those in the far flung areas, such as, South America, Japan, China, etc, to figure it out themselves and robbed their chances of going to heaven.
Suleman
Dec 21, 2012 05:36am
I have read the article. It was well written, but plz elaborate what was the need to claim that it is coming from a "minority". Of course a Christian has written it, but did it have a minority perspective?
raja
Dec 21, 2012 05:39am
Assalamaalaykum Abbasbhai, A little request, please try to keep your cooments smaller than the article itself. You do write very well and interesting, but its too lengthy.
ROHIT PANDEY
Dec 21, 2012 02:28pm
Pakistan is LOST,I would say!!!:
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 02:30pm
The problem is the Pak Army is not coming to your rescue. Don't ask America, Britain, Canada and Australia to do your dirty work for you. What Pakistan contributes to the British Commonwealth is nothing. Zero. A zero balance. Pakistan is burden on the West. If Pakistan had any kind of a real army they would have all this cleaned up in a year.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 02:24pm
Everyone has sold out to International Business because they like wide screen televisions, DVD players, computers, Ipods, cell phones, jewelry, fine clothes, luxury cars and boats and all the other high tech wares, like video games and music CDs. We need petrol in our cars and everything made of cheap plastic, from soda bottles to childrens' toys. America did not create you.
Syriana
Dec 21, 2012 05:56am
Mukti Bahini.....
Zakii
Dec 21, 2012 07:39am
Contrary to what NFP thinks, travel and education opens ones eyes to western propoganda and untruths and opens ones eyes to its schemes and tricks. Remember East India Trading Company that transformed itself to the slavemaster of the desi for two hundred years. The fight for independence started before 1857 when one Indian Muslim travelled to England and lost the fear of these people when he say their condition and told this truth to Sub-Continent people!!!
Zaheer
Dec 21, 2012 02:16pm
Abbas whatever NFP wrote the seeds were sown by Zia using Islam as a proxy...It is now a full grown tree the roots of which have spread not only throughout Pakistan but even beyond its borders..Sadly till now the army has watered those seeds with full devotion and is now paying the price
Circumbulator
Dec 21, 2012 06:10am
The author is a charlatan who thinks that by cherry picking he can score points and make a convincing argument.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 02:13pm
"You can have anything you want in this world, but no one is going to give it to you." Pat Riley
Pakistan
Dec 21, 2012 07:50am
The radicals in Pakistan do not respect the liberals.Why should we liberals respect the radicals.Let liberal rule Pakistan.
Ahsan Naeem
Dec 21, 2012 06:21am
kudos! love ur reply!
Ajit
Dec 21, 2012 06:27am
I landed here because Mr. Sabir Nazar's cartoon on facebook. I am fan of many cartoonists. after reading above things I feel mainly the religion is mainly involved in many things above and in many posts also. Thank god we most of the Indians hardly follow any religion and think only about future prospects .. Birds do not follow any religion and they are the happiest on earth.. We are like free birds... Freedom is Heaven on earth and we experience the heaven on earth everyday. No one anywhere has seen / knows any more beautiful place than Earth. List of Do's and Dont's - Religions stop us to experience the heaven on earth in our single and short life. I feel All Religions are like Madaris (Monkey Charmers) who can only make us dance like a monkey.. and can make us do almost anything. Humanity, Love and Freedom. These are the three main and original religions and luckily all can practice all of them, all the time and in single life. All the best to all of you.. Sorry if I am disturbing or off topic.Jai Hind!!
Raoul Ciao
Dec 21, 2012 06:28am
Islamomania, great term NFP. Islamomania is the refuge of those Muslims who believe that a lady showing her face in public can cause ISLAM to be in DANGER ! Inspite of such a bunch, in the hearts privately of millions globally, the revered religion has brought peace, appreciation for their non muslim neighbours and ability to live piety while exercising their minds in arts, religion, medicine, engg, hi technology etc.They are called the silent majority, but really, they are the ones who carry a more real picture of their religion than those who need to prove by the size of the beard or the amount of public show of faith including violence of those of another sect or faith.....
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 02:08pm
" I wont preach to anyone what they should or not do as per Hindu religion." The people who preach are extremely annoying, and unable to see themselves as others see them.
Ajit
Dec 21, 2012 07:30am
Sometimes I feel if Pakistan would have declared themselves as a Democratic Republic of Pakistan rather than declaring Islamic Republic of Pakistan, then trust me you people would have given us (Indians) a run for money.. You have so much of talent and himmat but you lack the Talent Appreciators in your country. I keep watching Malala's father's interview on BBC He is real brave Pakistani. it motivates me a lot. You people are going to get problems in future because to say A Islamic Republic you can not become Saudi Arabia in future and you also can not become a Democratic Republic because you are a Islamic Republic.. You are stuck permanently in this situation. coming out can be very very tough and dangerous also. Plus I feel Pakistanis are Ex Hindus so little bit freedom is left in their blood. this is the reason 100% of you people do not agree to full sheria / Islamic rule in Pakistan though you are a Islamic Republic. You are stuck in between two blades of a Scissor. try to move little and get cut from both the sides. I am sorry but this is what I feel when I watch news about you on BBC.
trueppp
Dec 21, 2012 06:46am
Pakistan khapay!
EQ8Rhomes
Dec 21, 2012 06:49am
I have been, and now even more, a great fan of Nadeem F. Paracha. I actually noticed the emergence of Islamic exhibitionism since the 60's outside of Pakistan. Most Interestingly, it appears to me that Pakistanis seem to think that Pakistan, not Saudi Arabia is the hub of Islam. But, Best wishes to you, Mr. Paracha. YOU would be my choice for President of Pakistan. Pakistan cannot afford to ignore Mr. Paracha's clear and critical assessment of the troubles of Islamomania. This mania is no different from the Sikh/Khalsa mania that has made many in the West quite dismayed.It is not just the whites! That mania is the cause of the "phobia" some feel towards Islam,Muslims, and Khalistani Sikhs. Actually, it is usually real fear of the phenomenon of extremist Islamist pushiness in many parts of the world where they have sort a better life, yet needle the locals like the old European colonials did! I am sure Canadian, U.S. and British immigration policies are the direct result of Muslim pushiness.
mehreen
Dec 21, 2012 06:49am
Nice sarcasm :)
Omer
Dec 21, 2012 07:49am
yeah, but Dawn editors let it through....does that tell you something...
Richard
Dec 21, 2012 06:58am
What a useless comment, lacking intelligence
Khurram
Dec 21, 2012 06:59am
Hope is good thing. I am also part of this society and I believe Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah words that "I can look forward to Pakistan becoming one of the greatest nations of the world." second one "My message to you all is of hope, courage and confidence." third one "There is no power on earth that can undo Pakistan." and so many...
Farooq Razavi
Dec 21, 2012 07:00am
I have studied in a boarding school run by Mill Hill Fathers UK in the 60's there cannt be more covered up modestly dressed people as the Fathers Priests & Mothers Nuns. Compare them with todays attire in west & our Ultra Mod women it is horrifying with the sleeveless & low low necks & super tight fits revealing all that needs to be revealed by them
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 02:05pm
To kill so many in Pakistan they must be filled with intense hatred. It is the job of imams, clerics and mullahs to top off the tank. Too check and make sure the hatred tank is full. What they refuse to admit to themselves is that Islam is failing in the modern world. So the obvious answer is to attack and kill the people who are not listening.
ComparativeReligionStudent
Dec 21, 2012 07:04am
"I
abbastoronto
Dec 21, 2012 07:04am
Zafarov: Greetings The West has been on a banana peel since some 150 years already. All great inventions were done in the 19th and first half of 20th century. Today, the West is in survival mode, not growth mode, is fearful, and fear is not conducive to innovation. The West, despite all its great achievements and 100% control of the globe for 400 years 1600-2000, is losing the battle of Survival, Growth, and Evolution, the only game in town. Mohammad:AOA The conversion rate quadrupled after 9/11. In the past western women used to convert after marriage. Now they first convert, and then try to find a Muslim husband. Nasir: AOA Yes, the new converts do not follow
chump
Dec 21, 2012 11:26am
Wasim Hassan Nisar.
EQ8Rhomes
Dec 21, 2012 07:05am
The Earthly governments' job is to serve the people's needs in this life. Food, shelter, education, arts and culture. The people should decide individually what their faith will be. Sure faith gives access to community, security, spouse, business partners, and power,too. But when it is orchestrated by politicians in government, religion becomes an election tool and the people become sheep electing the worst to power. Pakistan needs to raise itself by its own boot straps. Good bye Mullahs. Good bye Madrassas. Hello secular education, science math, and technology. Hello good government for the people on Earth! YOU do it, do not depend on Inshallah!
PatentHindu
Dec 21, 2012 07:06am
The liberal non-Muslims & Muslims hope that Pakistan would become liberal one day,but its never going to happen and the liberal non-Muslims & Muslims will be at the receiving end of the wrath from radical Muslims.I urge all liberal non-Muslims to become radical against these radical Muslims.You can't fight against a gun ideology of radicalism with flower of love ideology of liberalism.
zzx
Dec 21, 2012 07:06am
Indians and Hindus are above the law and any rules...or have not noticed.
Dasti
Dec 21, 2012 07:10am
Altaf and Taliban are the two sides of the coin of extremism.both are authoritative mind set and imran khan too but not violent. All other parties are acceptable although they are not perfect and incompetent but generally not harmfull for the society and recognise other's rights to live.
Tariq
Dec 21, 2012 07:10am
Do you think ZARDARI is a product of MADRASAS?? 90% if not all, members of parliament , corrupt by all standards , not even paying the taxes, are they product of MADRASAS ?? Pl be realistic. Whatever is MADRASAS share , me too agree with you , but thats not all .... major share comes from born looters.
abbastoronto
Dec 21, 2012 07:11am
LOL. "Free" healthcare system? What a joke. When something costs nothing, it is worth nothing. I stopped going to doctors 20 years ago. I have an 85 year old friend who lives in Windsor, and when I visit him and need medical advice, I get it from him. I practice preventive medicine. Grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
Mullahism
Dec 21, 2012 07:13am
Mullahism in Pakistan rules,Mullahs call the shots.I think all people of Pakistan are bent upon becoming mullahs.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 01:58pm
Free societies are their pissing ground. They want a job and then want to mark their territory. The second generation in Britain are the most vociferous. They hate Colonialism. They hate everything. Except their mothers. Their deep seated problem is they were not accepted by the other children in British schools. They did not fit in, and now they must take out their own misery on society. it is just as much the fault of the British making England a closed shop. In America the children of Muslims are included by their peers because America is still a nation of immigrants.
StoopedOne
Dec 21, 2012 07:19am
You say it so well . I too think these people Zarsdari et al are doing great work fr the people of Pakistan. But could not have said it better.
wafa
Dec 21, 2012 07:19am
zardari and altaf finished poverty ???? eradicated corruption ???? established law and order, created jobs, provided justice to the masses, empowered women, eliminated crime, established peace in karachi, ???????? can you please explain me this line how come ???
wafa
Dec 21, 2012 07:22am
na mard e munafiq
PatentHindu
Dec 21, 2012 07:24am
Unfortunately non-Muslim and Muslim liberal religions(sufi,shia)etc and people are in danger due to these Islamist.
MMS
Dec 21, 2012 07:24am
Murder of Muslims is okay!
MMS
Dec 21, 2012 07:28am
He is a Pakistani Christian who lives and fought for Pakistan...actual action at the front. Now he is a strategic thinker but Christian too.
Indian
Dec 21, 2012 07:28am
You will not find Liberal authors like NFP & Cowasjee in future.Liberal will be extinct in Pakistan in future.There will not be Dawn newspaper.English will be banned.Just see what will happen to Pakistan.Sharia will be implemented all over Pakistan.Islamic culture will rule Pakistan.
Sceptic
Dec 21, 2012 04:19pm
@AHA Very well explained.
raw is war
Dec 21, 2012 12:09pm
looks like a nightmare from here. No thanks.
Zafar
Dec 21, 2012 12:16pm
War on terror drama is just to save Israel..
observer
Dec 21, 2012 12:22pm
G. Nabi, Go and teach in some medrassah. You are the right mental level for there. Have you seen a piece criticizing AAZ by Edgar Allan Poe? Does that make Poe a die hard 'jiyala'?
Liberal
Dec 21, 2012 12:37pm
In future for liberal to survive in Pakistan will become impossible,see what the Taliban did to Hamid Mir they fixed a bomb below his car.
Rip
Dec 21, 2012 12:43pm
So what's your point?
Cynical
Dec 21, 2012 04:05pm
@Cyrus Howell There is a solution, Cyrus. Don't despair. We can partition Heaven, applying two nation theory and Christians and Muslims can live seperately and happily(?) ever after. Let the Jews, Hindus and all other pagans rot on this earth. HA...HA....HA
Rip
Dec 21, 2012 12:46pm
Sarcasm.
Rip
Dec 21, 2012 12:57pm
Well they get their facts in their schools.
Rip
Dec 21, 2012 01:02pm
Huh?
abbastoronto
Dec 21, 2012 04:01pm
There are 5 living Civilizations today {Toynbee 1930). 1. Hellenized West 2. Christian Russia 3. Islam 4. Indics 5. Sinics The Pakistanis are a beautiful mix of 3 civilizations
Sigma
Dec 21, 2012 01:10pm
Culture of Pakistan is borrowed culture from Indian,Persian and Arabic.Sorry to say Pakistan does not have its own culture.
AHA
Dec 21, 2012 01:35pm
Abbas - I disagree. Pakistan chose its disastrous course a very long time ago. I had my
Zeeshan Hafeez
Dec 21, 2012 03:37pm
Its okay when people like you stare someone having a beard, but wrong when someone stares you. WAH WAH.
Imran
Dec 21, 2012 05:28pm
Pardon my ignorance, but is there anything to preach in Hinduism?
Martin
Dec 21, 2012 05:33pm
perception, deception, without proofs, you are just interpreting the things by your own, no dialogues ever made by so called moderate people with the mass of religious people and labeling every one 'taliban' whats wrong if someone obseved vail for herself whats problem for others, I never understand, you pakistanis are stereo type people with less openness.
Cynical
Dec 21, 2012 05:35pm
And who was that Muslim? Lets know.
Martin
Dec 21, 2012 05:35pm
quite biased, and your comment shows great hate, no place for people over earth who have other believes then yours, remarkable p...
sraz45
Dec 21, 2012 06:10pm
Very true, look at Indian news papers there is nothing but hatred for Pakistan. Pakistan papers are far friendlier to India and its readers. True India is a great country has always been. The Muslims made it greater there is no doubt it.There were no forced conversions ever Even today people covert to Islam for its simpilcity and devotion towards ONE GOD. With all the western propaganda the fastest conversions are in Europe and the USA. The problem is that Indians feel complacent, and they do not want a country next to them which does not take dictates. Sri Lanka is another look what they did to that tiny country for 30 years, Pakistan helped them finally to finish that insurgency. Bangladesh has cowered down to Indian pressure and so they are okay as far as India is concerned.Pakistan has stood up for what is its rights that does not bode well for India
KudosDawn
Dec 23, 2012 07:42pm
"Dawn.com encourages its readers to share their views on our website. We try to accommodate all users' comments but this is not always possible due to space and other constraints" . Not so. Dawn essentially allows only Hindu and Indian comments. And it discourages almost all comments on articles by some many superior quality authors and well written instructive pieces by them while helping out its poor quality PPP writer called NF by allowing as many as possible as long as they say "Kudos" over and over to him.
Cynical
Dec 21, 2012 06:27pm
All capital letters = very angry person on the internet. Or, one who has lost all arguement and standing on his last leg, which anyway is amputed.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 06:38pm
"I would personally like to read your views about the solution and not the problem." Certainly others would to. The unfortunate fact is that men never act in time. They always procrastinate and turn their faces to the wall until war is upon them. Usually a people are left with two choices - a civil war because they have been misled by their leaders - or a foreign war in which the leaders convince the people their real enemy lives next door.
Raul
Dec 21, 2012 06:47pm
The best explanation....America didn't create Pakistan.
Ali
Dec 21, 2012 06:49pm
This kind of behavior is a by-product of injustice and lies. In the presence of injustice and lies, this kind of behavior grows very rapidly.
Soul of Manto
Dec 21, 2012 06:55pm
A song has many claimants, the lyricist, the composer, the singer/s and the producer. In this instance, Composer, a megalomaniac who fashioned himself as a messiah of the Indian Muslims. Lyricist, a great poet wedded to an utopian philosophy. Singer/s, the mass of mostly poor illiterate peasants and artisans. Producer, mostly the rich landed gentry of UP, Bengal and Hyderabad afraid of land reform and competition.
Zakia Sultana
Dec 21, 2012 06:57pm
An excellent and thought provoking article.
ROHIT PANDEY
Dec 21, 2012 07:01pm
Not even the creator-blessed faculty called COMMON SENSE?
Soul of Manto
Dec 21, 2012 07:12pm
I love your honesty. I mean it. Jinnah, Iqbal would have been proud of you.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 07:13pm
I get asked if I speak Urdu because my hair has turned grey. I take it as a compliment.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 07:17pm
Democracy is about freedom and the freedom to choose one's own life. Mullahs simply see the opportunity to keep people on a chain.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 07:22pm
All the dole money, luxury of freedom they are enjoying will vanish in a second with their lives.
pathanoo
Dec 21, 2012 07:29pm
God have mercy!! Where did you get your brain from, Abbas?
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 08:54pm
No argument from me.
Ali
Dec 21, 2012 09:36pm
Respectfully, if I may politely ask why free societies provide shelter to the usurpers, dictators like General Musarraf (living luxurious life in London), Altaf Hussain of MQM enjoying London for last 20 years under full protection while making extreemly provocative speeches by phone from London that has lead to thousands of killings. He even threatened supreme court judges who based on his speech from London opened a case against him. Voice against him were raised even in Westminister House of Commons but again put under the carpet. So much so that so many people now point fingers to him on a murder of his political opponent in London Dr Imran Farooq. Why are we letting a number of tyrants use London as their base for all these bad things? Why allowing murders of political opponents in London? Very sad
Fonseca_US
Dec 21, 2012 09:48pm
I agree. No bombings etc during Taliban rule. Poppy cultivation and drugs were cut down by them. It 'bad things' all began after foreign invasion toppling them. I wonder why no one brings that up except IK.
abbastoronto
Dec 21, 2012 09:51pm
After the death of our Prophet Islam split in two brotherly political camps: Camp A: Supported by the Medinan Majority - pro-Woman, pro-Christian, pro-Peace, pro-Progress, for helping the poor and the weak. Camp B: Supported by miniscule Meccan Minority - anti-woman, anti-poor, anti-Christian, anti-peace, for conquest and colonialism. . Camp A was led by the Prophet
Waseem
Dec 21, 2012 09:55pm
Yes. it says a lot what and who they are working for.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 09:58pm
They are cry babies who grow up to be professional victims without even one bomb dropped on them. Their parents told them as children they were very special little Muslims and that is their disconnect with the society. Western Society needs to know you are who you say you are not who you dream you are. So they retreat to groups who understand their pain.
Thinker
Dec 21, 2012 10:00pm
You be sarcastic, critical making fun of him but don't be too sure you have no idea of the ways they work, influence and infiltrate.
One on One
Dec 21, 2012 10:03pm
None of the Pakistani leaders and senior politicians ever went to a "madarrasa" and look the great productive honorable work they are doing for Pakistani people.
faraz
Dec 21, 2012 10:12pm
oye liberal! Hamid Mir is not a liberal. he is an islamomaniac apologist, who frequently praises Osama khan laden
OldFool
Dec 21, 2012 10:14pm
Usual 'air-head' talk.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 10:20pm
Thank you, Muhammad. I've learned something from you about Bhutto. Your good written description makes the political methods clear. Politicians do exist to protect and preserve themselves above all things.
Zurror
Dec 21, 2012 10:22pm
IK is all that NFP wanted but never can be. And now getting old has become despondent and envious.
Zurror
Dec 21, 2012 10:26pm
They have already infiltrated the minds of ignorant trusting people like you but you wlil never know that what you believe is not yours but theirs.
ToutatisCeltic
Dec 21, 2012 10:31pm
Zia has been gone from the scene almost 25years. A new generation has come up. Why does it still blame him and not its own lazyness and incompetence and hedonistic disposition.
ToutatisCeltic
Dec 21, 2012 10:34pm
And to build it and expand it...on and on.
EconomicHitMan
Dec 21, 2012 10:38pm
If you have any background in international economic power play and economic 'Hit Men' you would know that the West is the the great burden on the rest of the world. But that takes education to understand, not some quote book you so often copy from.
JustSaying
Dec 21, 2012 10:46pm
You have no idea of reality, facts on the ground, and work in process. But before you project your ignorance please first learn to write coherently rather than ramble on.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 11:14pm
'Okaz: "Some Western thinkers wrote that Western civilization is an extension of previous civilizations. How can you, a Muslim Arab, deny this?" Buleihi: "When we review the names of Muslim philosophers and scholars whose contribution to the West is pointed out by Western writers, such as Ibn Rushd, Ibn Al-Haitham, Ibn Sina, Al-Farbi, Al-Razi, Al-Khwarizmi, and their likes, we find that all of them were disciples of the Greek culture and they were individuals who were outside the [Islamic] mainstream. They were and continue to be unrecognized in our culture. We even burned their books, harassed them, [and] warned against them, and we continue to look at them with suspicion and aversion. How can we then take pride in people from whom we kept our distance and whose thought we rejected?...
Nasir
Dec 21, 2012 11:24pm
Don't rely on Saleem use your own "aqal"
Nasir
Dec 21, 2012 11:26pm
Agreed just "there brand of Islam" is failing.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 11:36pm
Dying in on the street is pretty routine for Pakistan. Davis bought his way out just as Pakistani drug dealers, criminals and big shot politicians do.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 21, 2012 11:42pm
The great reformer was Kemel's wife. She freed the women. The greatest fools were those Arabs in the Middle East who believed the Ottomans were Muslims.
Jalaluddin S. Hussain
Dec 22, 2012 12:23am
As a Canadian-Pakistani, living far-off from my country of childhood and youth- Pakistan- I sincerely feel that I can "be very rich in ethics,morality,justice,kindness love and pious human conduct, full of kindness, patience and temperance" and still be a good Muslim and Pakistani.
abbastoronto
Dec 22, 2012 12:27am
They are spineless everywhere.
Quims
Dec 22, 2012 12:30am
I wonder what does the future hold for the moderate Muslim majority in Pakistan. May God help us all.
Farideh
Dec 22, 2012 12:32am
Have the NATO nations with all their wealth and armaments cleaned it up in Afghanistan that it is expected of a bankrupt third world army to do their job for them.be real.
Faiza G R Bhatt
Dec 22, 2012 12:38am
Dawn should moderate comments and ratings by Indian extremists. they are hijacking everything.
Farideh
Dec 22, 2012 12:39am
And modi the real hero of Hindu thinking and model of tolerance for other religions and minorities and his enlightened followers who want to elect him prime minister.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 22, 2012 12:39am
Beyond Good and Evil the righteous have permission of the just to eliminate their enemies.
Cyrus Howell
Dec 22, 2012 12:58am
"The harvest is great but the laborers are few."
Ali abbas
Dec 22, 2012 01:30am
We may claim that Islam is the best religion but there is no denying that us Muslims are the worst people in the world. Islam will eventually be defined by acts of Muslims and we are failing on all measures. We need someone like Atta Turk who essentially banned outward expression of Islam including Arabic writing style. Currently Muslims are the most feeble minded people and something very drastic has to happen to change the current trajectory. There is no reasoning with most Muslims because every time someone tries to reason they start waiving the most extremist interpretation of Quran in everyone's face. How to reason with that.
Ali abbas
Dec 22, 2012 01:32am
Can't agree with you more.
Ali abbas
Dec 22, 2012 01:33am
Another completely ignorant comment from my fellow Pakistani and Muslim. I feel embarrassed for you.
Amethyst
Dec 22, 2012 02:11am
It seems to be your and Dawn's job now. And disinformaton too.
Khurram Merza
Dec 22, 2012 02:16am
A very well thought out article Mr.Paracha. Kudos to you. As a Pakistani living in America, I have noticed some interesting things about my fellow expatriates. Some of them become such Islam maniacs. More so than if they were living in Pakistan. Their overt expressions for Islam can only be described as "plumage". I can not imagine a middle class couple in Pakistan wearing a head to toe black Abaya(which is very foreign to Pakistanis unless they have lived in the Middle East) and a full beard for the men. Needless to say this looks absolutely absurd. You are correct when you point out this is for cultural ascendancy and economic gain within the Muslim community. Keep up the good work Mr Paracha.
RHS
Dec 22, 2012 02:23am
Great job as usual NFP.
CioSel
Dec 22, 2012 02:53am
...bothof you lack substance and facts.
CioSel
Dec 22, 2012 02:56am
They are terrified of what awaits...all this is they do is to hide what they feel and think at night alone. in the morning they try and deny it all.
Zularri
Dec 22, 2012 03:01am
...and you the ChristoFascist.
Outsider
Dec 22, 2012 03:03am
Well said. Good reply.
Alpha-One
Dec 22, 2012 03:16am
With all you Hindu jokers thronging this site has become a hilarious tragedy-comedy indeed.
Maureen Pasha
Dec 22, 2012 03:19am
Well said. Truth should always be said loud and clear as you have done. Thanks.
Zinga
Dec 22, 2012 03:21am
Zardari et al are king. Everything goes.
Janda
Dec 22, 2012 03:25am
Pride always comes before the fall...
TrollWatch
Dec 22, 2012 03:29am
Excellent observation. I find that interesting and intriguing too.
dkg
Dec 23, 2012 05:00pm
Which Gene among this Gene Pool - the Best, is stopping Pakistanis from showing the best they have??? or is it the best that they are showing now??
Q&A
Dec 22, 2012 03:40am
They were attacked because their bosses were using them for spying. For example Dr.Afridi started this for money and to get US Visa, he was caught on the border with it.
Ref
Dec 22, 2012 03:44am
Old Muslim or just an old fool?
Aziz
Dec 22, 2012 03:48am
When there is foreign invasion fighting them with whatever means is mandatory. Writing in caps depicts his emotion...got your attention, did it not? When your friends write in some other language using roman then you seem not to object.
Thinker
Dec 22, 2012 03:56am
Well said. Agree with you.
StrategyAnalyst
Dec 22, 2012 04:39am
Apples and oranges. Faulty logic. Japanese were a small Island. They lost because two million Soviets were suddenly deployed against them and two atomic bombs were tested on an exausted nation out of revenge. US-NATO has failed to subdue a handful of Taliban with small arms in over 11years. And there are over a billion peaceful Muslims spread over the Globe...and some have Nukes, over 110 of them. And Muslims have provided the West safe harbour and launching pad and resources for attacking other Muslims. Please review your logic. Americans have demonstrated that they can't fight on the ground. They have lost every war, 60 of them after WWII, where they have not used atomic bombs. Now the other side has them too. Think over your logic again, please. Your arrogance and ignorance is telling.
Student
Dec 22, 2012 04:43am
You do not understand what you read and the moderator allows you to publish your ignorance, again and again.
JustAsking?
Dec 22, 2012 04:47am
You seem to be all over the place. What is your relationship to the moderator? Or are you a CIA disinformation troll-bot?
JustAsking?
Dec 22, 2012 05:03am
There is no such word as "Islamist". This meme was coined by Western-Israeli Psy-Ops Think Tanks to undermine Muslims. Why do you copy them and use it to ridicule your very own?
Problem101
Dec 22, 2012 05:07am
But atleast they are building their own foreign bank accounts. And Pakistanis will vote for them again. So they must be doing something right in Pakistani eyes.
RightSir
Dec 22, 2012 05:09am
He gave it all away to widows, orphans, and freedom fighters.
ToutatisCeltic
Dec 22, 2012 05:15am
"Religion is the opium of the people" is one of the most frequently paraphrased statements of Karl Marx.
Jennefir
Dec 22, 2012 05:22am
You speak from your own personal experience. Americans are like that. Way blow in health and intelligence and moral fiber. Now they are debt to the tune of trillions of dollars.
Francis M
Dec 22, 2012 05:40am
Actually Muslims gathered all the knowledge of the world, translated it,and kept it in librarys and madarassas and invited scholars froall over the world to come share and contribute to it. The Mongols and the Christian Popes burnt these libraries and madarssas. Some, few were saved. It is said humanity and world accumulation of knowledge was set back a thousand years or more.
Apophis
Dec 22, 2012 05:45am
NFP does not analyse. He ponificates and demogogues.
DoneAgain
Dec 22, 2012 05:48am
Down with IK. Vote Zardari, PPP, MQM. They the best for the Pakistani people as you well know from past four yearsexperience.
RunnerOne
Dec 23, 2012 04:42pm
Two of a kind. Limited education.
Post123
Dec 22, 2012 05:54am
The women do it on their own. As do nuns. It is simple modesty. The west bares all. I mean all. It does not mean that Christianity is like that. The Bible tells women to stay at home, comfort their husbands, cover their heads or they will be shaved off.
Geff Garrett_US
Dec 22, 2012 06:02am
Over 15000 people die on the streets in the US, every year by gun shots. 125000 by alcohol, 400000 by tobacco...what is your point.
N Ahmad
Dec 22, 2012 06:07am
Excellent observation.The way Pakistan or India are turning away from concept of wahadatul wazud, they are transforming themeselves into fanatics or demon. They will kill the entire humanity.
One on One
Dec 23, 2012 04:39pm
Well said.
Off/On
Dec 23, 2012 04:41pm
He has his limitations in history, culture, and religion.
FactCheck
Dec 22, 2012 06:12am
Good point. Now tell me how come one person: Einstein was right and the rest of the world wrong? your straw man has no substance, your facts are baseless, your reasoning is faulty. Truth does not rely on democracy, popularity, votes, or compromise. Truth stands alone.
Ronin
Dec 22, 2012 06:17am
Very well said, You have facts while others just words.
Zurr
Dec 22, 2012 06:19am
He is trying more of the same good goverment and justice and prosperity that the present government has given Pakistan.
PatentHindu
Dec 22, 2012 06:21am
Wonderful article Kudos to NFP and Dawn.If any non-Muslim wants to know about Islam,you can take lessons from NFP by reading his articles.Very well researched article and nicely presented too.
Muneza
Dec 23, 2012 04:37pm
He was being funny. You only exposed your limitations and lack of understanding his play..
Shyema Majeed
Dec 22, 2012 06:55am
@Faiza G R Bhatt; Very well articulated. You have exposed much truth in your post. Gives us an idea about what actually is going on. And why such articles are coming forth every so often. Funds are being deployed. Hard to believe that the average Pakistani wants more of the same. Truth will win in the end. Pakistan will be saved from this multi-pronged onslaught. Just look at the cartoonist and author combination to build a 'Straw-Man' that can influence the best of brains. I am glad your comment was published. Seems us sisters have to step forward united together as our brothers are being led astray by this unabashed falsehood propaganda juggernaut.
Seemi Anwar
Dec 22, 2012 06:59am
These pumpedup ratings are meaningless. We know where they are coming from. Non-starter.
Masood Khan
Dec 22, 2012 07:02am
Those who get their history and facts from movies are easily led astray.
Islam is Peace
Dec 22, 2012 07:08am
Well said. Like a dream from here. Much thanks.
Anwar Chaudhry
Dec 22, 2012 07:08am
Nadeem F. Paracha sahib When i saw the heading "Fissures-in-the-middle" and Photo of Late Gen Zia ul Haq i was very sure you will end this with # 4 Cartoon for your kind information this number 4 Photo is not innocent as you are trying to plead, they are also one of the major part of the present problem of Pakistan, Now a days Doctors are selling prescription to their Patients for profit to Pharmaceutical company and getting commission and also billing patient till death you are also doing the same with your readers, every few days the same topic directly or indirectly, are you done with Dr abdul salam ?
Ronin
Dec 22, 2012 07:11am
You don't speak. You pontificate, inanities.
A Questoner
Dec 22, 2012 07:16am
Almost everynone talks about Shariah Law but no one has studied it, First study Shariah Law then condemn it. A simple common law degree takes two years. How much Shariah law have you studied? It takes scholars between four to six years atleast.
Q&A
Dec 22, 2012 07:21am
Nothing of the kind. Jinnah's intellect seems to bother you people even after so many decades. It always will. He was an intellectual giant in history. Will always remain so.
Q&A
Dec 22, 2012 07:29am
Very well put. There is nothing beautiful, peaceful, or intellectual in their culture.
Raul
Dec 22, 2012 07:30am
May GOD give you more strength to keep saying the truth....
NonArabMuslim
Dec 23, 2012 04:32pm
Obviously you have no idea of culture and how it evolves.
Peace to All
Dec 22, 2012 07:40am
Good response. You have knowledge. Wish more of us had, to answer their fantastic lies.
One on One
Dec 22, 2012 07:42am
Excellent educated response. Good answer.
Xono
Dec 22, 2012 07:44am
Yea they are always here touting their defunct cult.
Zurror
Dec 22, 2012 07:46am
Very good educated answer. Thanks.
Zurror
Dec 22, 2012 07:49am
Dawn is only exposing them. This is how this smart moderator does it, by letting them do it for themselves while all the time they are thinking they are preaching their extinct cult.
Zazi
Dec 22, 2012 08:07am
Islam does not allow conversion from the outside by force or otherwise. In Islam conversion must come from the heart and mind. In Islam conversion is not by words alone or by water bath or other ceremony. It is between the Creator and His creation.
OneSuch
Dec 22, 2012 08:13am
And educated response indeed.
Thinker
Dec 22, 2012 08:15am
His is Zardari's agenda: Take Pakistan's treasue and invest it in your name abroad.
Alamgir
Dec 22, 2012 08:16am
Zia was taken out by the CIA while using PPP help.
Ranganath
Dec 22, 2012 08:19am
Friend Imran. There is something called as Philosophy which gives you freedom to think beyond a particular book. This thinking can challenge the book from where the knowledge is earned. There are several schools of thought for eg. the Dvaita and the Advitha. They preach and permit you to challenge it. This is how broad based the path of a "Hindu" is. You are free to think beyond a book, conclude on how you find God. This thinking freedom is what no one else can offer.
Capt C M Khan
Dec 22, 2012 08:23am
Excellent info Mr abb, this time I agree with you. I feel that the UNEDUCATED BUSSINESS MIDDLE CLASS ( having plenty of food and money) have some sort of complex and want to prove to the EDUCATED MIDDLE CLASS that they are superior so they have taken the WAHABEE MISSIONARY route.
Alamgir
Dec 22, 2012 08:27am
Where did he say that...he did not say not that.
OneSuch
Dec 22, 2012 08:29am
Is the ad hominem all you could come up with? Fail.
Mawish
Dec 22, 2012 08:30am
@AHA, I agree IK is not the solution to the country's problems, Mr. Zardari is. People like us need liberal parties like ppp and mqm at the helm of affairs, because the country is flourishing so well under them. Law and order is so good these days, and crime rate is at its minimum. Governance is excellent. Lets hope these liberal parties stay in power. We don't need a change under IK, because the country is going in the right direction.
OneSuch
Dec 22, 2012 08:31am
Another ad-hominem.
Alicia
Dec 22, 2012 08:33am
Is that all you have in response to his erudition and knowledge?
ZZX-1
Dec 23, 2012 04:35pm
@Mustafa Razavi: Liked your word play, slanted pun and sense of humor.
Alicia
Dec 22, 2012 08:36am
Tony Blair's family women for one. I for another. I have a MD, Ph.D. Have read studied and accepted Islam. Any questions?
Janice Khan
Dec 22, 2012 08:39am
Comparing apples, oranges and bananas. Islam, Muslim, various Countries...get it?
Janice Khan
Dec 22, 2012 08:41am
Unread, uneducated platitudes,rubbish.
John B.
Dec 22, 2012 08:44am
"They encourage and promote human curiosity. To question. To examine. To research..." That is what the Quran commands...but you have not read it.
John B.
Dec 22, 2012 08:48am
If you average the killing of infant baby girls in India by the millions you will find that the average age in India is nearer to thirty.
Angelica [Nurse]US
Dec 22, 2012 08:52am
Almost all Americans including children are on some kind of pill or other. Even young army soldiers are on all kinds of pills. All this is documented and recorded in detail. Billions of prescriptions are written every year.
NonArabMuslim
Dec 23, 2012 04:29pm
Islam is universal, not just Arabian. You need to study it if you want to know and understand the fallacy in your thinking.
FX-1
Dec 23, 2012 04:25pm
Well said with knowledge of history and political insight. And faith in Pakistan. Excellent response my friend.
SM
Dec 22, 2012 09:03am
@Imran: to people like you? Nothing at all.
VeryOldThinker
Dec 22, 2012 09:09am
What are you when you call others not human? Where have I heard this before: Nazi, Neo-Nazi, ZioNazi, Christo-Fascist...others.
Masoom
Dec 23, 2012 04:20pm
His rambling has no truth in it?
SM
Dec 22, 2012 09:11am
from?
The Other
Dec 22, 2012 09:15am
Most, over 90% downs, are from non-Pakistani, non-Muslims. My opinion and assumption may be nearer the truth since this behaviour is common here. Few Pakistani and Muslims read this paper. Most are 'others' usually bashing Islam and Pakistan.
OneSuch
Dec 22, 2012 09:18am
As compared to Zardari et al?
observer
Dec 22, 2012 10:09am
To me, such an appearance is taking undue advantage of West's respect for individual rights. People from countries where individual liberties are trampled in the name of tradition, elders, and religion claim these things in Western countries. This way, social fabric of Western countries has suffered in addition to useless people burdening the taxpayers.
observer
Dec 22, 2012 10:13am
Future in my opinion is more international isolation, increased economic hardships, more insecurity of life and property, elevated levels of crime, breakdown of country into new separate states, meltdown of law, etc. The only system that can sustain in Pakistan is democracy. The closer that democracy to a secular brand the better. But if Pakistanis do not learn a lesson from the trajectory the country is going for the last 30 years, disaster is only waiting to happen.
observer
Dec 22, 2012 10:15am
Do yourself a favor. Please go and see a good psychiatrist. I am sure some can be found in Ontario. Even Candian government will pay the fee.
ToutatisCeltic
Dec 22, 2012 10:15am
I appreciate your confident intelligent posts Will look to see more of them.
observer
Dec 22, 2012 10:18am
Are you sure Hamid Mir is a liberal? Please get your facts right. Except for the example you have given, I tend to agree with you.
ComparativeReligionStudent
Dec 22, 2012 10:21am
You design, make up, and rewrite history as you wish, without realizing that others see through it. You cannot change facts, only opinions. Most of what you write is false, untrue, and motivated.
observer
Dec 22, 2012 10:30am
Sage from Toronto, I cannot disagree with you more !!!!
Chad W.
Dec 22, 2012 10:51am
Why attack him in person? Have you no argument against his?
JustThinking
Dec 22, 2012 11:11am
So you want British born citizens deported to Pakistan, an alien land? Would you also deport Pakistan citizens elsewhere? What power in law do you reference?
ZZX-1
Dec 22, 2012 11:16am
And not much of it. Eating grass leave etc.
Old Muslim
Dec 22, 2012 12:14pm
Abbas you are simply genius, I am in agreement with you word by word! keep it up and let your posts keep coming in!
Samaad
Dec 23, 2012 04:14pm
You need a course in History.
abbastoronto
Dec 22, 2012 12:55pm
Mostly men convert in prisons. Why not?
abbastoronto
Dec 22, 2012 01:03pm
raja Sahib:AOA Sorry, yes, it did become a bit long. Best wishes
abbastoronto
Dec 22, 2012 01:08pm
Greetings from Dearborn MI People here in the US go on life-support from day 1. Sad, really sad. Then, our food is heavily drugged - Hormones, pesticides, irradiation. Very bad for Survival, Growth, Evolution. Best wishes
Ajmal Khan
Dec 23, 2012 04:07pm
You are preaching right here. Lolz
khanm
Dec 22, 2012 01:37pm
Pakistan is not only grave yard of ethics and morality. Look around every Muslim countries are facing the same issues. The symptoms may differ but the disease is the same. What is the disease?? Lack in faith, intolerant, being radicals, extremism, rage, social injustice, no justice, corrupt leaders, exploitation, no freedom of expression, no accountability. Failure of institutions. We have no minimum moral lines, why because choose the most corrupt to lead us. We never took the lesson from our prophet life. He spends 40 years in building his character and his faith. Islam came to change the system not to hang up on trivial issue. How to fast, how to make wadu, whether a women should wear lip stick, whether to hide complete face or just the hair. jabeen sajda ker te ker te gaie so sirf haq-e - bundagie adaa ker chalay.
Ajmal Khan
Dec 23, 2012 04:00pm
Good insight. Those people were their own, working for them. Now they enjoying life after having destroyed it for others.
dhananjay
Dec 22, 2012 03:19pm
The school photograph depicting all burkha clad girls in the photograph and one pointing to one such girl and claiming to be herself speaks thousand words.
Pramod
Dec 22, 2012 03:52pm
@Alpha one this article is for the people like you. Great going, keep thinking like that and very soon sleeping Pakistani 's whole property in which he had invested will be in Taliban's hand brcause at this speed Pakistan will be very soon in their hand.
Saeed
Dec 23, 2012 11:11pm
Iran is perfect example of separation of religion and state . Is there camp C. ?
Baber Khan
Dec 25, 2012 03:37am
The usual NFP ranting!