A recent rise and frequency in the number of US drone attacks in Pakistan have simultaneously triggered an even louder campaign against them both in Pakistan and among certain human rights groups abroad.

Without countering or suspecting such voices, I believe one should also be equally conscious of the other side of the drone debate. Yes, there is another side to it as well.

First of all, the way sometimes many Pakistani politicians and media personnel call drone strikes as being illegal; it seems as if those being chased by the drones are legal.

In other words, a lot of effort goes into denouncing drone attacks but not enough is said or done to censure the Pakistani and foreign Islamist militants that are the prime targets of these drones.

It is next to impossible for civilians living outside the conflict zone and the media to enter these areas. But in 2009 the Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy (AIRRA) managed to conduct a relatively widespread survey of the public opinion about the drone strikes in FATA.

Five teams of five researchers each, interviewed a total of 550 residents belonging to all walks of life who were being struck by drone attacks.

They were asked what they thought of these attacks.

Most people thought that the drone attacks were accurate and effective in damaging the militants. The survey results were at once picked up by leading American newspapers like the New York Times and some local Pashtun publications, but they were largely ignored by the Pakistan's mainstream media.

Based on the responses the researchers concluded that certain notions held about drones and militants outside the Pashtun belt lacked substance and were mostly incorrect.

According to author, Farhat Taj, (a Pashtun and a research fellow at the Centre for Interdisciplinary Gender Research, University of Oslo and a member of AIRRA ), the drones have only killed a handful of civilians as compared to the militants who were struck down by the strikes.

Taj claims that most locals in conflict zones like Waziristan saw US drone attacks as their liberators from the clutches of Islamist militants.

In her book, 'Taliban, Anti-Taliban' (2011),  Taj suggests that locals of Waziristan had told her that the militants themselves collect the bodies of the targeted Islamists, bury them and then issue a statement to the media claiming that those who were killed were innocent civilians.

She insists that estimates about civilian casualties in the media are wrong because after every attack Islamist militants cordon off the area and no one, including the local villagers is allowed to come near the targeted place.

Taj also adds that (according to the people of Waziristan), most of the civilians who have been killed so far in drone attacks are the unfortunate members belonging to the militants' families who were living with the militants in the targeted compounds and houses.

In her book Taj relates how the people of Waziristan had told the researchers that in a compound with militants, the drones were more likely to only strike that particular room of the compound.

It is believed that from 2009 onwards US began to employ smaller missiles on drones to not only reduce civilian casualties but to also make the strikes more accurate against moving targets such as vehicles.

A Bloomberg report by Tony Cappacio and Jeff Bliss quotes US government sources suggesting that ever since July 2008, drone strikes in Pakistan have killed 1,300 militants and only 30 civilians, with no civilians killed since August 2010.

But a number of Pakistani politicians and media outlets as well as some international human rights agencies say that for every single militant killed by a drone there are at least ten civilians who lose their lives.

But just like the AIRRA report, the US government too suggests that on most occasions the collateral damage usually involves family members of the militants who were present in the house or compound where the militant was hiding or holding a meeting; or the bodies of militants have been paraded by their colleagues as being those of 'innocent civilians.'

A report by Ken Dilanian in the Los Angeles Times (February 2011), maintained that in 2010 the CIA held back drone strikes against Islamist leader and militant, Sirajuddin Haqqani (in Waziristan) at least thrice because women and children were nearby.

The report further quotes the American think tank, the New America Foundation, saying that since 2004 drone strikes in Pakistan have killed between 1,374 and 2,189 people out of which about 435 were non-combatants.

However, a number of think tanks run by Pakistanis and human rights organisations have disputed such figures. They are convinced that collateral damage from drone strikes far exceeds the figures given by the CIA and organisations like AIRRA.

For example, Reprieve, an umbrella group of various non-profit organisations and activist groups, in a recent report claims that 3,180 people have died in drone strikes in Pakistan ever since 2004 out of which 1,700 were civilians.

Nevertheless, the same year (2012) a detailed study and investigation conducted by the Associated Press found that militants were the main victims of drone strikes in North Waziristan contrary to the widespread perception in Pakistan that civilians are the principal victims.

During its investigation the Associated Press studied ten drone strikes. Its reporters spoke to about eighty locals belonging to North Waziristan. The reporters were told that at least 194 people had died in the (studied) attacks.

According to the villagers 56 of those were either civilians or men belonging to the tribal police and 138 being militants.

When the villagers were asked how they determined who was killed in drone attacks, they said that the bodies of militants were usually taken elsewhere for burial by their colleagues, while civilians were usually buried immediately and within the locality.

More than being a thorny issue between those who support drone attacks (saying that Pakistani authorities neither have the resources nor the will to act against militants operating in remote areas) or those who oppose these attacks (suggesting that they are counterproductive and, in fact, illegal), the issue is an awkwardly enigmatic one.

It has become next to impossible to determine the exact truth about drone strikes. Mostly because there seems to be no middle-ground present in the reports released thus far on the issue by the two poles.


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Comments (146) Closed




krk
Jun 17, 2012 05:44am
When militants kill normal civilians and children there is no protest from politicians or govt, when drones kill militants there is a big protest. The fact is that the politicians and others do not care for the local people. It seems that all are on the side of militants. All efforts are made to make USA the main enemy. It will hurt the normal people.
Sanjay Saksena
Jun 17, 2012 04:57am
I feel we ought to be grateful to the US for targeted slaughter of the militant mongrels. Inability or unwillingness of the Pakistan authorities to cleanse their land of the militant vermin makes the drones an inevitability. Pakistan needs to ask the question as to why , when there are 190 countries in the world, drones are being used only in Pakistan? I sincerely hope the drones manage to eliminate each and every militant murderer so that this menace is laid to rest for ever.
Rizwan
Jun 17, 2012 04:56am
Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy (AIRRA) is based in West. Why would or should accept their research as the ultimate. I have met many people from these areas who believe that drones are lethal and destroying their population. Institutions based in weste give scholarship and research grants to the third world students to promote their narrative. Edward Said calls them ‘native informer’. It is a fact that drone strikes kill innocent civilians and the collateral damage what they call is in fact the total damage. Technology may be accurate but not as accurate as we assume. Ideology backs the technology. It is the ideology in the form of “hell-fire missile” attached to the drone which kills innocent people. Only a few have the callousness to say that drones are effective. When you wear the western lens, everything looks good and okay. The issue is not ‘enigmatic’. There is no enigma in the merry dance of the death at the hands of imperial technology.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:24pm
"The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." -- George Orwell
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:56pm
malik62, You know it is all about the money.
Baba Sidni
Jun 18, 2012 12:39am
Well, the military doesn't help them openly. They might be doing it covertly, but not openly. They are not that courageous. They need US dollars as well - you know.
Tariq K Sami
Jun 17, 2012 05:16am
The Drone strikes are a mean to perpetuate a state of controlled chaos and can go on for ever. It will bleed Pakistan to a point where the state will simply collapse once there is rebellion within the Military. It is for this reason alone that the Pakistan Army will never enter NW. Pakistan is a country where 3 generations live under one roof (no nursing homes for old people). So how does it make sense to employ a drone! Finally you would be singing a different tune if your relatives were killed in a drone attack.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:14pm
Correct GG, but the point is CIA no longer trusts the Pakistan intelligence. They are suspected of being involved in the drug trade and of aiding bin Laden by failing to look for him and telling us he was not in Pakistan. They labeled themselves either liars or the sub intelligence service. Their official interest has been in protecting militants. It is not our jobs to ask them exactly what they are protecting - drug smugglers, their backsides or protecting Pakistan from civil war. Pakistan intelligence agents should be in constant communication with Pak Special Forces commandos. No country can afford to let intelligences agents wander around on their own unsupervised.
ghaleezguftar
Jun 17, 2012 11:43am
The drones over Pakistan are secret missions; that is why they are run by CIA and not the USAF. They being secret are not subject to scrutiny so there is no official statement about any strike from the US Gov. Considering the intelligence cooperation efforts promised to each other by US and Pakistani Intelligence agencies, CIA should trust its partner by sharing intelligence and adopting less deadly methods rather than using Hell-fire missiles. One is greatly mistaken if he says that our forces are not doing enough in FATA. The sources which report civilian death toll as a concern are deemed disputed by NFP and for the purpose of making his point he chooses sources like Farhat Taj and AIRRA who themselves are also disputed. Furthermore nobody for sure knows who had actually died in the strike. Although drone strikes have continued to kill specific high value target but there seems to be a never ending line of high value targets. With all the technology,power and rhetoric to conquer peoples minds, hearts and bodies within, around and off war zones the US is unable to be convincing about this decade long war. The state department obviously does not need NFP, AIRRA or the likes to justify its action, but I wish they do leave a "thanks, anyway!" note here.
SL DUA
Jun 17, 2012 11:53am
These terrorists killed 3000 in 9/11 and killing 10 to 50 people daily in Pakistan. Let me know the Law under which they are doing it. To you these killings seems to be ethical.
@BaBaJees
Jun 17, 2012 09:18am
The article is self contradictory and so many points and most of the "evidence" is from western sources (who are conducting the drone strikes) or NGO's funded by them. For example, no outsider can go into the conflict zone, yet AIRRA conducted an "extensive research" in waziristan.. The example of Sirajuddin Haqqani is given, that the americans called off the drone 3 times due to women. Well, when some militants have been killed, almost ALL of the time women and children (of their family or living nearby) have died, e.g. Baitullah Mehsud's wife was killed with him, along with other civilians near the area. The united states claims to have killed a number of "militants". Yet they can't name any! They have claimed to kill "Al-Libbi" a dozen times, yet he surfaces again and again. So how do the drones know they are accurate? Lastly, read the latest kill-list leaks please. Obama said ANY MALE who is in the fighting age and inside drone attack's perimeter is a LEGITIMATE TARGET!! Wow. There is just one word for these people and their supporters: "Hypocrites"
Shahid
Jun 17, 2012 09:24am
Instead of getting hyper, Baba, kindly go through the last para of the piece where NFP clearly states that getting the exact truth on the issue is next to impossible. And you don't agree with the surveys but are all too willing to bekive those reports and leaks that suit your personal feelings on the issue?
Nauman
Jun 17, 2012 09:34am
Most of us missed the most important point. There is virtually no access of media to those areas. Journalists have been killed either by agencies or by militants. Why? The truth is Pakistan army knows well what is the situation. These are international terrorists wanted by more than one country. Drone haters miss the point. Yemen also has endured drone strikes which has proved to be effective and may be Mali is next in line. The bottom line is that Pakistan army never speaks up against drone usage when Pakistani taliban are attacked, but they react when Haqqani types are engaged. Pakistan will eventually become a state run by either the military or the militants as long as the army distinguishes between good and bad taliban.
mrhopsy
Jun 17, 2012 10:58am
ONe question extremists are increasing during drone strikes or they are diminishing ?
mrhopsy
Jun 17, 2012 10:56am
All tribal leaders in parliment are against drone strikes, and also even if bunch of innocent died in drones ! does it make drones legal or humane ?? Stone heart we have isnt it.
Salim Akbani
Jun 17, 2012 11:25pm
These CIA drone strikes are doing what our pot bellied Generals at the GHQ would not do. They refuse to take on thugs that are killing our innocent women and children, blowing up schools and terrorizing the country. What good is keeping a 600,000 man army with a bloated officer staff that cannot take on the real task of protecting the country. mean time they will play you like a cheap flute. This PK army's failure we are witnessing.
umar
Jun 17, 2012 02:28pm
We have the seventh largest standing army in the world. They get a large chunk of the budget. My only question is why dosent the army send 300,000 thousand of our 700,000 thousand strong army to the tribal areas to take on militants who number significantly less than that. Ask US to give us all the modern weapons and training to carry out the task. If things are done this way there will be no need for any more drone attacks. This way we will pacify both sides of the argument.
Prof X
Jun 17, 2012 02:29pm
"in a compound with militants, the drones were more likely to only strike that particular room of the compound." These drones are armed with 100 lb Hellfire missiles designed to destroy tanks and eliminate bunkers. Targeting a single room in a "compound" (usually mud and brick buildings in Waziristan) would be the equivalent of opening a can of pineapples with a stick of dynamite. Farhat Taj is delusional if she thinks only that single targeted room would be affected by the strike. Also in nearly 300 targeted drone attacks almost 300 children have died (Amnesty International). That is, more than 300 families have a further reason to resent the Americans. What the drone attacks do prove is the ineffectiveness of the Pakistani Security Establishment to police its own territory against terrorists and how close we are to being a failed state.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:18pm
" One death is a tragedy. One million deaths is a statistic." Joseph Stalin + So which do we choose? Chasing bandits, or a full scale war?
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:15pm
It is your government, or is it?
Seedoo
Jun 17, 2012 02:37pm
Dear Al Fatmi, For your kind information, there is a huge difference. America, despite all its hegemony on the international stage, has given this world many things, inlcuding the internet which you have used to voice your opinions in this forum. It's strength lies in its educational institutions, civil institutions, civil rights, technology, agriculture, massive food production, manufacturing, high-tech, R&D, law & order, etc. etc. It does not produce uneducated thugs and criminals who go about destroying girl's schools and killing its own people. USA, unlike Pakistan does not rely on thugs for its strategic depth. In fact it actively seeks to marganilize those groups in the US (like Ku Klux Clan) who seeks such ojectives. May I ask as to what Taliban's contribution to humanity is? Given a choice, would you want Pakistan to be run by the talibans or the way the US is? I am not trying to defend the US policy, but please ask yourself this question, if we had not allowed militancy to fester and grow in these areas of Pakistan, would there be any drone strikes?
Abdullah K.Niazi
Jun 17, 2012 02:39pm
Evidently NFP never bothered to look at the history of VietNam during American involvement. First it was VietNam, then Cambodia followed by Laos under the pretext that VietCong had sanctuaries in those countries- all became sitting targets for carpet bombing by US Air Force. Now it is tribal area, next what if it is Peshawar or Bannu ? I guess Karachi is far down on the list - Why worry, Mr. Paracha . Pathans are expendable.
Baba Sidni
Jun 18, 2012 12:14am
Operation in Swat, by the Pakistan Army cleared the area of the militants, within weeks. It is a peaceful area, at the moment. Can't say this about the militants in Afghanistan and FATA.
pathanoo`
Jun 17, 2012 02:43pm
Moran seems to be a more appropriate name for you, Maroof.
Ashraf
Jun 17, 2012 07:11am
Suppose you were an astronaut and I was an alien ... I love it that when it came to drone attack so many like you start to suppose a lot. What happens when a suicide bomber explodes himself in public killing innocent people out of which NONE of them are militants. And those living in the cities don't have to suppose this. It's a reality. How come your hearts bleed for drone victims more than half of whom are militants, but not a word is uttered or protest is launched by you guys when terrorists bomb civilians in crowded cities?
Tariq K Sami
Jun 17, 2012 02:44pm
I agree with you entirely. Its time some of the lies are exposed. Your last line says it all.
pathanoo`
Jun 17, 2012 02:46pm
May be you are not such a moran after all.
Ashraf
Jun 17, 2012 07:38am
Well said, Imran. The last para says it all. It most certainly is an enigmatic issue. The other side of this issue needs to be looked at as well, which, in Pakistan nobody is willing to do.
razwaneyar
Jun 17, 2012 08:18am
and what about those 35thousands innocent civilians killed and hundres of thousands of people who are now living a disabled life because of these terrorist attacks.were they given a fair chance of trial by these terrorist?
Dr Imran Ahmed
Jun 17, 2012 07:34am
With respect the presenting of facts dispassionately cannot be characterized as "singing a tune". If one has alternative facts these should be produced for scrutiny. The author did give the information on the rough ratio of family members getting killed. Acceptability or otherwise of these numbers is subjective and should be compared to alternatives. On a subjective note I find drone or other assassinations carried out by a foreign power on our soil unacceptable.
Baba Sidni
Jun 18, 2012 12:25am
Yes terrorist is a terrorist. Weather it is from a shoddy group, or a so called legitimate government. And killing is a killing.
Tariq K Sami
Jun 17, 2012 02:50pm
Shahid Saheb the facts are clear for any one to see. Root Cause Analysis: A war lasting 10 years means the people are against it.
@BaBaJees
Jun 17, 2012 07:12am
The article is self contradictory and so many points and most of the "evidence" is from western sources (who are conducting the drone strikes) or NGO's funded by them. For example, no outsider can go into the conflict zone, yet AIRRA conducted an "extensive research" in waziristan.. The example of Sirajuddin Haqqani is given, that the americans called off the drone 3 times due to women. Well, when some militants have been killed, almost ALL of the time women and children (of their family or living nearby) have died, e.g. Baitullah Mehsud's wife was killed with him, along with other civilians near the area. The united states claims to have killed a number of "militants". Yet they can't name any! They have claimed to kill "Al-Libbi" a dozen times, yet he surfaces again and again. So how do the drones know they are accurate? Lastly, read the latest kill-list leaks please. Obama said ANY MALE who is in the fighting age and inside drone attack's perimeter is a LEGITIMATE TARGET!! Wow. There is just one word for these people and their supporters: "Hypocrites"
Baba Sidni
Jun 18, 2012 12:36am
"35 thousand innocent civilians killed and hundreds of thousands of people who are now living a disabled life because of these terrorist attacks". Are we discussing world war I or II, or some Shakespearean play. I understand, that those killed in the twin towers attack were about 3,000. and those who were in the planes were in hundreds. I might be wrong.
Baba Sidni
Jun 18, 2012 12:28am
Well, there is another name - NFP.
Baba Sidni
Jun 18, 2012 12:22am
I posted too early by mistake. I would also like to comment about the thugs and criminals who go about destroying schools. Looks like you haven't read about the indiscriminate firings in American schools by their own students, on their fellow students. Just Google it.
zeeshan
Jun 17, 2012 06:57am
one simple question to all drone lovers. suppose you, your family and the militants are staying in one place, suddenly there is a drone comes to attack , what will you do, praise the Americans? you people like drones because they don't strike at your houses. terrorist is a terrorist, whether he kills one innocent person, or he 100 innocent persons.
Baba Sidni
Jun 17, 2012 06:49am
Animal rights granted for you and co. By the council of bulldozers.
Baba Sidni
Jun 17, 2012 06:53am
NFP writes, "The report further quotes the American think tank, the New America Foundation, saying that since 2004 drone strikes in Pakistan have killed between 1,374 and 2,189 people out of which about 435 were non-combatants". In my opinion, even one innocent civilian killed, is too many. And about the others, deemed to be combatants, is there any ruling by any court, including the US courts, that they were combatants. They were killed without giving them the right of trial. Remember, those found innocent in the Guantanamo.
Baba Sidni
Jun 18, 2012 12:07am
We expect justice from the sane minds. Pakistan has not declared war on any country. So we don't expect anyone attacking us. These are miscreants, who terrorize people in Afghanistan and Pakistan and hide among civilians. We need action against them, but do not want the civilians killed. To get rid of the mice, you don't need to burn the whole barnyard.
Baba Sidni
Jun 17, 2012 11:54pm
Better keep the hats off. You might have not get another chance. By the way I thought common sense is defined as something, which is the most commonly available commodity. I don't think, this sense is most common in Pakistan. But who am I to argue - just a feeble old man.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:51pm
psuedo-logics ! I think you have created a new field of study, farhanshah.
Baba Sidni
Jun 17, 2012 11:45pm
You are right. I have been to America and back. One needs to eat as well. HAHAHA. Hypocrites !
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:45pm
Imperial technology? Rizwan you are still stuck in the 19th Century with Gunga Din. + Here is the ideology which came out of World War II, a war in which 500,000 from the Punjab fought. War is Use of Force, and to the Application of Force there is No Limit. I hope you are a good gambler.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:50pm
Religious militants would rather see themselves in Hell than compromise their own Righteousness on Earth. The answer is simple. You don't argue with a predator - human or animal - you kill it before it kills you.
Baba Sidni
Jun 17, 2012 11:38pm
Please do cry your lung and heart out, cry baby!
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:39pm
There's a point.
Baba Sidni
Jun 17, 2012 11:43pm
What ! even when the so called Great General of yonder years - Collin Powell was talking about collateral damage. Was he referring to the cabbage plants being uprooted by the bombings. His famous quote - "stuff happens" still rings in my mind.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:37pm
You can always attack America with your 7th largest military. We don't believe Pakistan has the stomach for a fight. America defeated Iraq's Army (the 4th largest in the world in just 100 hours).
Baba Sidni
Jun 17, 2012 11:37pm
Sardar ji, you better talk about the golden temple and its after math. Religion and violence should never be mixed - Because it seems that it might be the only topic, you might know well. Leave the other topics to those, who know about it.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:33pm
"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets." -- Voltaire
Baba Sidni
Jun 17, 2012 11:34pm
A nation built on the black corpses in 250 years? I invite you to see Pakistan after 200 years, and compare it to the present state of USA.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:28pm
"The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human" -- Aldous Huxley
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:26pm
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -- Blaise Pascal ~1650 AD
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 11:01pm
Which soldiers are risking there necks?
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 06:40am
If Pakistanis are not careful they could overtake African Americans as the world's biggest crybabies. Pakistan may get to fight all of it's militants alone without the help of the USA.. The President of the United States does not have time to confer with all the women in Pakistan who have never read a book. Everyone does what they must do in this world. Don't try to look important - do important things, and let the chips fall where they may. In wars people die. What Muslims do not ever seem to understand is that in a war (in battle) decisions have consequences. We are no longer siting about in a tea shop smoking, boasting and theorizing. Military officers must take decisions based on the best information they have available. It is very difficult for the US to work along side people who believe bandits are heroes.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:59pm
Sudy, This comes from a Saudi Arabian Shura Council member. + Ibrahim Al-Buleihi: That is correct. This delusion of the Arabs persists to this day, even though the entire world has changed. The world has changed, but they still believe that it is their duty to teach others, and it is the duty of others to heed them. The truth is that the Arabs have nothing to offer others, yet they continue . . . This horrible delusion, this belief in one's own perfection, the belief that others must learn from them, makes it impossible for them to benefit from modern culture.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:53pm
Why are they killed? In my opinion unnamed, peoples' shares of drug money is at stake. The Taliban get 10% of drug shipments.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:50pm
This quotation comes from the American president Abraham Lincoln.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:49pm
Three million Afghans were driven into Pakistan territory, and two million into Iran by the Russian Army, not by the American Army. Afghans have only two ways of making money, - by selling drugs and by robbery. They have nothing. Your "brother Muslims are spying for Iran and shipping drugs into Pakistan from Afghanistan". They get a free pass to ship drugs, unfortunately they also end up killing people in Karachi.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:42pm
What is the nation of Pakistan exactly? It is there a nation or is it simply Islamabad? Is Islamabad really the whole nation?
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:34pm
In this nuclear age we are all expendable. My second wife was in Dresden, Germany when the RAF fire bombed it at night. 30,000 people were crushed or roasted to death in the first 10 minutes of the bombing in the city center.
AHA
Jun 17, 2012 10:33pm
@Cyrus – I always gave you a thumbs up because, on balance, I agreed with you. But your sweeping comment about African-Americans has left me wondering.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:30pm
That makes sense, Hassam and that would be correct.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:29pm
Yes, Ali. I have often said if I were a Pakistani I would be very angry about the drone strikes. You have a right to be. There will be legitimate fighting in Balochistan. When that revolt breaks out will the nation have to fight all the militants as well on another front? The problem in Karachi is different as well. The relationship between they Taliban and Afghan warlords and the city of Karachi is the shipments of drugs going through that port.
gp65
Jun 17, 2012 10:27pm
The terrorist camps of people who spread terror in India including Kashmir are in Pakistan. We would LOVE it if US took them on. US has its own priorities , so unfortunately we are not as lucky as Afghans who get to see people attacking Afghanistan taken out by drones.
gp65
Jun 17, 2012 10:25pm
US has been asking Pakistan to go to North Waziristan and get rid of Haqqani safe havens. Pakistan has been refusing because it considers them its assets. Thus its not a question of ability but a desire to take on 'good militants' due to which US has decided to step in and do the needful.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:18pm
Maroof, You are not getting this. Decisions everywhere do not have life and death consequences. Unless you are taking about sitting in a tea shop in Lahore when a terrorist bomb goes off.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 10:15pm
Omar, This is a rational reply, and I agree with you for the most part, although I don't think Washington is making the excuse they are protecting American lives (other than on the battlefield). The tribal idea of war is to shoot and run, shoot and run. The American idea of war is to shoot and move forward, shoot and move forward under covering fire. Suddenly the enemy has run away into Pakistan. In thousands of battles decisions have been made (throughout history) whether or not to cross another country's border to pursue. It is a calculated risk having consequences. Pakistanis have been burning the American flag for years. Flag making must be a very good business there. Pakistanis show their frustration by burning flags and Washington shows it's frustration by flying drones over the border. + "These militants are a scourge and i am fully in favour of eliminating them as they have wrecked havoc with the entire social fabric of Pakistan and Islam - but the means to go about it should be weighed more carefully. " Yes certainly. The problem is who is going to fight them. The Pak Army has not been fighting them. + "this is what is fanning anti-American hatred and actually supporting the militant ideology rather than eliminating it." Yes, but we are way past that. America is way past caring. Americans are leaving Afghanistan. The Pakistan Army has until 2014 to get it together. The rugby ball will be passed to your wing forward.
malik62
Jun 17, 2012 06:35am
Man you like it or not , your voice has no value as the powers to be want to test , tune up and perfect this Super Toy of all future war fare and There Is No Place On earth as vast and as unchecked and unconfrontal and NO GOVT on this Planet as helpfull as The Pakistani Establishments ( Military first and foremost and Civilian tagging on as directed by the brass heads) to let the USA do what it is doing since General Mussharaf gave "unstinted assistance ' . DRONES are here to stay you like it or not , shout as much as you can the Trioka ( USA , Defence bosses of Land of Pures and civilian stooges ) Does not care . If the Two together or alone ( Kerry lugar bill ) shouts out slogans against the national pride , few scrapes would be thrown their ways and the normal siutation reverts ....
razwaneyar
Jun 17, 2012 06:31am
what is your source of information,fundoo media or fake politicians?
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 09:51pm
The biggest act of terror was the Japanese invasion of China.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 17, 2012 09:50pm
I went to a high school that was 40% black and campaign for Obama. I served in a national guard unit that took 90% casualties in the Korea war. It was an all black unit at that time. Some of those men taught me to soldier, Ghetto youth today are not fit to polish those mens' boots.
rk singh
Jun 17, 2012 06:22am
Dear Nadeem, great article. People do not realise religion and violence should never be mixed, at least not in this modern times. Muslims are making a bad name to themselves, by introducing this culture in places like western Europe. Less said about pakistan the better. No body from Muslim world speaks up when Muslims kill people around the world. There is a feel good factor about these incidents. This is very bad for humanity and Islam.
Shahid A.
Jun 17, 2012 06:16am
Well done NFP for presenting the flip side of the issue. This way one can analyze the issue without being constantly bombarded by the same old arguments about the drones.
G.Nabi
Jun 17, 2012 09:08pm
How ironical,NFP talks about talibans in tribal area but his roving eyes never catch the target killings in his own city,Karachi ! In one case, it is drone that is doing killing, in 2nd case it is AK47. End result is almost same, bloodshed of non combatants which is akin to collateral damage. In FATA, US is judge, jury and executioner, in Karachi , well , I will let NFP name the names.
Zeeshan
Jun 17, 2012 08:46pm
(contd.) From a social stand-point, it gets worse. When it is human lives that are at stake, it is not enough for something to be 'fairly accurate'. Even if we are to accept the AIRRA figures and the fact that there have been only 30 civilian causalities since 2008, it still remains unacceptable, 30 or 1. Not to forget the fact that these strikes help militants find sympathy amongst public and help them find new recruits. When an outside Govt plays God with local people, it stinks with imperialism and people tend to flock towards the local bad guys. This is exactly what happened in Cambodia when Nixon and Kissinger bombed Cambodia from 1970-74. The common Cambodian's sympathies shifted totally towards the notorious Khmer Rouge for which they suffered later. As Glenn Greenwald has put it in his latest article this week, if there were to be another catastrophe like 2001, it would precisely be because of these strikes.
Zeeshan
Jun 17, 2012 08:46pm
Actually the issue has two facets. 1. Legal 2. Social/Ethical From a legal stand point, drone strikes would remain illegal since they are extra-judicial. The fact that militants' acts are illegal too does not make it legal to take them out without a trial, simply because two wrongs do not make a right. Even the most heinous of criminals (read terrorists), the Nazi war criminals responsible for the killing of millions, were given a trial at Nuremberg. I am sure if they were simply queued up and shot no one would have shed a tear for them. Yet, they were given a trial. The problem with one (band of) person(s) deciding who lives and who dies is that it is akin to playing God with humans. Taking out criminals illegally because what the criminals did was illegal can never be legal in any legislation because it is simply vigilant justice in a fancy coating.
Shahzad Naseem
Jun 17, 2012 08:42pm
Yes lets ask the original inhabitants of America what a wonderful nation the Europeans have built in America. providing you can find any of the descendants of the original inhabitants of course!!!
Mike
Jun 17, 2012 08:16pm
Why not allow media and independent observe visit the area and monitor the situation? Why even the government official or military is not allowed in those areas? Why when drone attack places are protected by militant and don't even allow the police or law and order officials are allowed to conduct a through investigation?
ASAD
Jun 17, 2012 07:31pm
why dont to keep on building that nation instead of killing all over the world, your one act of dropping nukes on Japan is the biggest act of terror so better mind your own business and dont teach us what to do ..
kashif
Jun 17, 2012 07:22pm
the drone strikes are only conducted on those who go across the border and fight in Afghanistan... those who killed 35 thousand in pakistan are infact being funded by US, open your eyes ...
Farhan
Jun 17, 2012 07:20pm
Well said...
Sunny
Jun 17, 2012 08:04pm
What is stopping the powerful Pakistani military from stopping the drones? Those who are against these drones should first blame their incapable armed forces who can neither stop militants nor drones.
Raj Patel
Jun 17, 2012 07:10pm
Is it acceptable to you that suicide bomber kills innocent pakistani civilian ?? Does Pakistan has any independent body to scrutinize Army, Government and American claims of killing militants and civilian ? Does Pakistan Army has capacity and willingness to take out this thugs in their den. Be realistic, if you can't clean dirt from your own backyard, then let the others do it. They are helping your cause.
ALI
Jun 17, 2012 06:58pm
Bloody civilians should go on ground and check the facts rather then sitting on internet and quoting reports of foreign sources,
Raj Patel
Jun 17, 2012 06:46pm
Think Prof. How many people including children and Army Personnel would have been killed if Pakistani Army would have send it's troop to kill those militants killed by Drones. Get the facts of Swat Valley. How many Army guys were killed and how many militants and innocent people got killed. Americans knows the limitations and intensions of Pakistan Army. Pakistani people and Army should be thankful to drone that their work is done by drone.
FIS
Jun 17, 2012 06:38pm
Folks, let's not miss a fundamental point here, this is a WAR. Causalties come. So pick a side! Under what idealogy you want to live your life? Tablian style or American Style? (Sorry there is no middle ground here - that option is long gone!)
Sikander
Jun 17, 2012 06:09pm
...(continued) At the end of the day, the strikes ARE illegal, the UN recognizes that, and most of all counterproductive. Actual militants can claim victimhood, the nation is unable to act, and resentment against an unpopular war grows. Those are the results, while pea-brained commentators argue about what percentage are civilians.
Sikander
Jun 17, 2012 06:08pm
A nuanced debate is not possible with politically motivated "research" by characters such as Farhat Taj Anderson. Mrs. Anderson has also never released her "methods", a tell-tale sign that the work done is not academic nor credible. AIRRA is a now-defunct organization which has no credibility, especially amongst the Pashtuns. NFP knows well that there is no way of ascertaining who is being killed, and that the killer will most likely label anyone getting slaughtered as "militants". There are enough anecdotes, like the young Mr. Khan who was killed by a drone strike. There are tribal elders and leaders who make it obvious that drones are a terror to their livelihood. There are also wedding parties and tribal gatherings that are targeted because "signature strikes" and the CIA "blowing off steam". These issues are never spoken about among the leftists who like to latch on to any anecdote which suits their politically construed narrative.
Zeeshan
Jun 17, 2012 04:33pm
Actually the issue has two facets. 1. Legal 2. Social/Ethical From a legal stand point, drone strikes would remain illegal since they are extra-judicial. The fact that militants' acts are illegal too does not make it legal to take them out without a trial, simply because two wrongs do not make a right. Even the most heinous of criminals (read terrorists), the Nazi war criminals responsible for the killing of millions, were given a trial at Nuremberg. I am sure if they were simply queued up and shot no one would have shed a tear for them. Yet, they were given a trial. The problem with one (band of) person(s) deciding who lives and who dies is that it is akin to playing God with humans. Taking out criminals illegally because what the criminals did was illegal can never be legal in any legislation because it is simply vigilant justice in a fancy coating. From a social stand-point, it gets worse. When it is human lives that are at stake, it is not enough for something to be 'fairly accurate'. Even if we are to accept the AIRRA figures and the fact that there have been only 30 civilian causalities since 2008, it still remains unacceptable, 30 or 1. Not to forget the fact that these strikes help militants find sympathy amongst public and help them find new recruits. When an outside Govt plays God with local people, it stinks with imperialism and people tend to flock towards the local bad guys. This is exactly what happened in Cambodia when Nixon and Kissinger bombed Cambodia from 1970-74. The common Cambodian's sympathies shifted totally towards the notorious Khmer Rouge for which they suffered later. As Glenn Greenwald has put it in his latest article this week, if there were to be another catastrophe like 2001, it would precisely be because of these strikes.
Shankar
Jun 17, 2012 03:39pm
Maroof, If militants from Kashmir on the Indian side attacked Pakistan, by all means I will support Pakistan's use of drones to tackle them? Is Pakistan willing to grant such a privilege to India? Again should India & Pakistan be competing with each other or co-operating with each other in tackling terrorism?
razwaneyar
Jun 17, 2012 10:10am
pakistan can definetly crush these terrorist by itself,but not by the ruling elite that has created this menace.pakistan needs sacrifices,this time not from people but from ruling elites.bloodshed,although no body wants it,seems inevitable.pakistan has a very strong future once,those who have brought it to this miserable state,fall into a pit they have dug for others.Its a rule of natur and natur can not change.let us hope for safe and great pakistan
Mubashir
Jun 17, 2012 03:18pm
If Jehadis in Pakisan and Wazirstan are going to declare a Jehad against US/Nato and government of Afghanistan from Pakistan's territory, then in response to their attacks across the border, they will be hit back. When they cross the border, hit Nato/US Afghan troops (along with civilians) the put the security of Pakistan at risk. We don't find Difa e Pakistan group condemning them!! You can't declare a war from a country and not expect your opponents to hit back.
Irfan Brohi
Jun 17, 2012 11:58am
Hats off to you Nadeem for speaking my mind which is a voice of common sense.
kashif saif dhillon
Jun 17, 2012 10:28am
it might be thought provoking but crux is that drones are against our sovereinghty and integrity it is a invitation to some foreign elements who have cherish dreams to evade us it should be stopped immediately..,
Ahmed
Jun 17, 2012 10:19am
Can u think of a way in which these guys will attend a Court of law?
@AbsarAhmedKhan
Jun 17, 2012 10:06am
Amidst debate and disputation on drone strikes, where the civilian casualty cannot really be ignored, one gotta admit that drones are a bonafide tool of war, and very good at it!
N Hasan
Jun 18, 2012 09:19pm
Dear Nadeem Saheb I have read your writings over the years with the greatest admiration. A person like yourself could have very easily 'left' Pakistan and settled in the West as a successful writer, journalist and intellectual. The fact that you have chosen to stay on in Pakistan is really amazing. There are all sorts of mediocre people who claim to represent Pakistanis abroad. I salute you, Sir! Dr Nadir Hasan New Zealand
Sudy
Jun 18, 2012 07:53pm
What's wrong with that? Doesn't all civilizations believe in their right or wrong superiority? Isn't this what the western world also believes in? The superiority of their civilization and the so-called modern benefits that they have to offer? Despite the fact that the so-called modern western civilization is still in its infancy and has already inflicted disastrous wounds on our eco-system. I'll say that the so-called "benefits" of modern civilization has brought the entire planet on the brink of destruction!!
Omar
Jun 17, 2012 11:21am
Yes militants are the target and i don't see any reasonable person questioning the militant causalities in these drone strikes - the civilian deaths, or the collateral damage as the fallout is unacceptable. Your point about this being a WAR and WAR having consequences shows the mindset that a US life is much more precious than any other human being in any other part of the world. The notion of the US administration is that by carrying out these drone strikes, they are protecting American lives, the tribal civilian causalities though don't seem to matter. And this is what is fanning anti-American hatred and actually supporting the militant ideology rather than eliminating it. These militants are a scourge and i am fully in favour of eliminating them as they have wrecked havoc with the entire social fabric of Pakistan and Islam - but the means to go about it should be weighed more carefully.
pathanoo`
Jun 17, 2012 03:04pm
What would you have America do? Let these terrorists cross Pakistani sanctuary with impunity, enter Afghanistan and kill Americans? There is a war going on started by these murderers - Al Qaeda with the support of Taliban who killed 3,000 innocent Americans including several innocent Musim Americans. How do you justify that? Why are you not screaming loudly about that monstrasity. You are a hypocrite of the first order when you do not condemn ISI and these murdering thugs for killing innocent Muslims, burning girls schools and killing girls for attending school. You should be grateful some one is killing off these murderers who are giving Islam a bad name. The people of FATA and the two Waziristan are grateful for the Drones as they are the only hope they have of getting rid of these murderers. I wonder what your Doctorate is in?
aaa
Jun 17, 2012 03:00pm
The problem mainly is when does one draw the line. Even if the majority dying are militants are we willing to kill minority of civilians. Should our govt. officially take a stand that '' as long as the civilian deaths are in minority it is ok for anyone to come and kill them. '' Or should we just wait for the civilian deaths to reach a certain number. And what is that number is percentage. If the civilian deaths reach 60% of the total dead then we draw a line????? And if we take it further should we also allow Indian army ,iranian army or any other army to kill pakistani people if the death are in minority. And then again what is our number of people dead before we believe the minority is not long minority. Or should one actually have any sort of logical policy.
Brohi
Jun 17, 2012 12:35pm
there were no suicide bombers before strikes in those region. have a memory older than the first bomb in your city.
Hammad Khan
Jun 17, 2012 01:41pm
Well said.
Kuppuji
Jun 17, 2012 12:59pm
I understand and appreciate and support arguments in favour of civilians killed. Whatever may be the reason for the drone attacks, the fact that several hundreds of innocent civilians' lives have been taken out for no fault of theirs is something we should be worried about. I would like the U.S. and Pakistani authorities discussing this problem and arriving at a solution so that civilian deaths are minimised if not completely eliminated.
John
Jun 17, 2012 02:21pm
Mr Aslam I would disagree with your contention. The American approach or as you call it 'Gung Ho Cowbody' has worked. I invite you to come to America and see for yourself what a nation we have built in 250 years. You may than compare America with your own country Pakistan and what you have done with it and then draw your own lessons.
Deepen
Jun 17, 2012 02:05pm
Why no one speaks against suicide bombers who kill 100s of civilians? Why terrorists are helped by the military openly?
Rangacharya kulkarni
Jun 17, 2012 02:04pm
Because India is very much willing and capable of taking action against Kashmir militants. There is no need to invite America.
sb
Jun 17, 2012 12:25am
Very interesting insight into the drone attacks. Is there another way to reduce the militancy in the FATA? A lot of the traditional leaders (elders) of the type that governed the area for the past many hundreds of years have been killed. There are no respected authority figures who can bring peace back to the area.
Ahmed
Jun 17, 2012 12:31am
Seriously thought provoking and reasonably well substantiated article. Well Done! Thank you for informing the readers about this other side.
khanimal
Jun 17, 2012 01:01am
Nadeem sahab -- get ready to be called a traitor by the ghairat brigade. Anyhow - an excellent article.
farhanshahidkhan
Jun 17, 2012 01:39am
Once you used the word "collateral damage", I can guess your mindset. Don't bank upon psuedo-logics and bogus funded studies to justify something which is inhumane and illegal. Visit Waziristan and see for yourself, how angry people are over these drone attacks and how uncertain has the life become with constant threat of drone flying in your direction. This is a baseless article
shankar
Jun 17, 2012 01:41am
This is a mute debate. Every living militant killed actually saves about 10 civilian lives, which is the average number of civilians a militant kills in his life time, mostly Pakistani civilians. I do not see any logic in asking the drone attacks to be stopped. Doesn't Pakistan want the elimination of militants from its soil?
Baba Sidni
Jun 18, 2012 12:42am
Correction - they do blow up mosques, or at least do the firing. That is why you see police guard outside mosques during Friday Prayers.
Karach Wala
Jun 17, 2012 02:04am
“You may fool all the people some of the time, you can even fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all the time.” If above is true then no matter whose side one believes, unfortunately there is nothing Pakistan can do.
Sure Kant
Jun 17, 2012 02:47am
Farhat Taj has been saying this all along for years. But for the generals -- who first trained "strategic assets" suicide bombers -- it is convenient to allow the story that the drones kill civilians. They are right: Of course, those not in the official army uniform are, after all, um, eh, bloody civilians!
Hassam Khan Durrani
Jun 17, 2012 02:51am
According to the recent detailed New York Times report on Drones and Obama's Kill List, the United States Government considers all males of combat age killed in drone strikes as militants. This means any male between the age of 14 and 55 in the vicinity where a drone has struck or will strike is recorded as a militant whether he has any or no intention of harming anyone. So when the US government reports 1300 militants and only 30 civilians, the result is largely skewed, for political reasons.
Sudy
Jun 17, 2012 03:20am
Problem is that in Pakistan there is neither a culture of research nor of listening and accepting facts. A large majority of people in the country believe in propaganda of establishment-backed parties and media. Anything that they don't like is immediately rejected as being false; even more by the so-called learned persons. Drone attacks are one such example where people think that most of those who are dying are innocent. However, the problem with drones attack is not that who is innocent or guilty but rather US is playing the role of judge, jury and executioner without the due process of law. How do we know what the real crime of those who are being killed was? and were they really guilty or not?
ahmed41
Jun 17, 2012 03:34am
OK--------lets say the DRONE attacks are accurate and the collateral damage is limited. The question is whether it is ethical to kill militants , who the US thinks are enemies, without the benefit of a trial. Why are the militants such out and out extremists anyway ? Can we not address this problem , also ? In this respect do the two wrongs make one right.
Mohni
Jun 17, 2012 03:35am
Yes! I agree with the argument that drone strikes are considered by the people who are suffering under the Taliban rule as their only salvation. Drone strike are unpopular among Punjabis the most who are away from the drone strike theatre. Why can,t we explain to our people that if you keep 'ghunae' in your home who attack your neighbors than expect a counter strike as well. Sovereignty comes with the burden of responsibility. We as a nation blindly following the discourse propagated by our agencies and forces.
Hitesh
Jun 17, 2012 03:36am
It seems only Terrrorist(Muslim) have Human Rights ! I would like to beg for Animal rights for others !
Al Fatmi
Jun 17, 2012 07:46am
I failed to understand what do you want to prove. Are you are suggesting that killing one or two or handful of civilians is ethical, as long as the scrooge of Talibans is being marginalized by these drone attacks. My simple question to you is, what is the difference between the Talibans & the Americans as one kills in the name of their myopic beliefs & the other kills in the name of Freedom & marginalizes these deaths as collateral damage. The only people who suffer are the ones living there, and suffer from this senseless war which hounds them on the ground & from the air.
Maroof Alam
Jun 17, 2012 07:46am
comment about African Americans is clearly racist one. Later words probably are also motivated by the latent racism so typical of the Americans. Decisions taken any where have consequences, even if we are sitting in a tea shop. Militants fighting against Americans (and offcourse those fighting against Pak) probably know what you are advising them to know. Its probably the Americans who don't seem to understand that it is their policy in the middle east that has consequences (a terrible consequence was 9/11). Gung ho cowboy approach might not work everywhere and every time.
zeeshan
Jun 17, 2012 07:48am
my heart is bleed more when there is a suicide attack. that's why i said that terrorist is a terrorist, whether he kills one innocent person, or he kills 100 innocent persons. in my point of view govt should take proper measures to eradicate terrorism, and they should do this on its own. how will you feel when two outsiders fight in your home?
Maroof Alam
Jun 17, 2012 07:48am
Since India has not been able to uproot militants from Kashmir, why don't you guys ask Americans to conduct drone strikes in order to save some ten's of civilian lives?
Maroof Alam
Jun 17, 2012 07:51am
The only way to eliminate militancy from Fata and our society is : close down all the madrassahs
Maroof Alam
Jun 17, 2012 07:52am
well said...
Imran
Jun 17, 2012 07:52am
HAHAHA...Hypocrites..!!! How many of these DRONE Haters and America Haters will go to America, if given a chance to immigrate??? I guess all of them..!!!
Raamis Hussain
Jun 17, 2012 07:55am
That's exactly what I have been crying my lungs out! Our government says that these drones are illegal and innocent lives are targeted. I'm sure casualties do take place but isn't it true that the world's most hideous terrorists and criminals are found out in these parts. Even without going through this article it was quite clear and understood! good job Nadeem Sahab.
Shahid
Jun 17, 2012 08:06am
@Ahsan You would love that won't you? I think you haven't noticed that the filthy gangsters fighting it out in Karachi do not blow up markets and mosques. They do not attack shrines, dig up graves of saints and hang their skeletons by the neck. They do not train little boys to kill infidels. Should I go on?
parvez
Jun 17, 2012 07:56am
I, living in Islamabad, was in a seminar where journalists from FATA were given training by a US professor, Before the seminar, we thought that the FATA journalists would complain about the drones, However, the biggest problem they stated was the threats by the militants, meager pay and threats by security forces as the biggest dangers. No one said any thing about the drones. When questioned, most stated that the targets were militants and no one had seen any collateral damage.
Shahid
Jun 17, 2012 07:56am
This is perhaps the most balanced and dispassionate article on drone strikes that I have read in Pakistani media. Well done.
Ahsan Ali
Jun 17, 2012 07:56am
agreed!!! why not drone strikes in Karachi where the Police has not been able to achieve any result what so ever? or even a military operation?
Ashiq Hussain
Jun 17, 2012 08:45am
Imran sahib, Pakistani can't claim violation of sovereignty...as these areas are outside the writ of government. If assasins from this independent (emirated of Taliban) attack any other country, would that be legal???
saleem
Jun 18, 2012 12:49am
I think the comments by the ghairat brigade gives more energy to NFP; all power to his writing :)
Cyrus Howell
Jun 18, 2012 01:00am
We know drones are accurate by a combination of computer monitored speed and navigational direction, video and gps targeting. We can put one right down latrine. A real man fighting a war would not have his women and children with him. Like that rat bin Laden. I never took my wife to war. These people are thieves and bandits working from home. They have computers and cell phones and rob people with AK-47s instead of fountain pens.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 18, 2012 01:03am
They are funded by the drug lords of Afghanistan. Open your eyes. How many Pakistanis have the Taliban killed with their heroin?
Cyrus Howell
Jun 18, 2012 01:16am
None of these deaths are acceptable, but if the Pakistan Army will never enter NW - then America should have been told that in advance by the Pak government if they were less greedy and had the courage.. The Pakistan Army was only asked to capture or kill the bandits. No one else. We have long noticed the Pakistani Army lounging against walls leaning on their elbows. They are in no hurry to get shot, but eventually the army will be forced to fight unless everyone can be hooked on the opium and heroin coming out of Pakghanistan. As Karachi has found out heroin creates very clever and energetic thieves who have no time to read their Qu'rans. They will however murder for their drugs. .
Cyrus Howell
Jun 18, 2012 01:27am
"The life of the nation is secure only while the nation is honest, truthful and virtuous." -- Frederick Douglass
Cyrus Howell
Jun 18, 2012 01:29am
Let me know the law under which they are going to jail.
Cyrus Howell
Jun 18, 2012 01:41am
I know a guy, a Pakistan citizen (not a dual national) who served in the US Army in Afghanistan and is now in Waziristan being paid $120,000 a year to gather intelligence. I really hope he will not be hit by a Hellfire missile. The Pakistani ISI did not give the US reliable intelligence, so it must gather it's own. He is embedded with the the military. He is not spying for the CIA. He is on 30 days leave to visit family.
Miles
Jun 18, 2012 02:02am
Kashmiri Miltants' sanctuaries are around Muzaffarabad.....so do you think India should ask America to start drone strikes for India in your "Azad Kashmir"?
faraz
Jun 18, 2012 07:39am
Well Howell, it does not need stomach to fight. It's something else.
Tariq K Sami
Jun 19, 2012 02:23am
Honestly are you talking about some bandits I assume you mean the old man Haqqani who the great Ronald Reagan, President of the United States of America feted at the White House and said that he reminded him of the founding fathers of his great country. Comparing Haqqani the Mujahideen, to General George Washington, or am I missing something? Oh how times have changed!!!
airria
Jun 20, 2012 01:23am
Well, I think it's extremely embarrassing for us that another country is carrying out whatever military action it wants in our country (remember the Bin Laden incident, anyone?) and the very fact that the Pakistani govt and media appears to oppose it, and asks the US to stop, is an indicator that the US is here for it's own purposes, not to "help" us. Are we forgetting who created the Taliban in the first place? Answer: The US themselves.