enter image description hereCanada should have gotten it right by now. A 146-year old country of immigrants should know how to integrate new immigrants. The recent census data however suggests that not to be the case.

While Canadians celebrated the 146th birthday of their country, many recent immigrants, however, had little to celebrate in their adopted homeland where their unemployment rate was 75 per cent higher than that of the native-born Canadians.

Last week, Statistics Canada released further details from the 2011 National Household Survey (NHS). The data focusing on labour outcomes paints a dismal picture for many immigrant groups, especially those who are considered a visible minority, a term referring to the people who visibly do not belong to the majority race at a place. For the would-be South Asian emigrants, the grass appears greener in Canada.

The labour force statistics from the NHS reveal the uneven geography of labour force outcomes for various ethnic groups. More than one in four working-age Arab, who migrated to Canada between 2006 and 2011, were unemployed. During the same time-period, one in seven South Asian immigrants was also unemployed.

Unemployment rates for various ethnic groups who migrated to Canada between 2006 and 2011
Source: Murtaza Haider, 2013. Data from the National Household Survey, 2011.
Unemployment rates for various ethnic groups who migrated to Canada between 2006 and 2011 Source: Murtaza Haider, 2013. Data from the National Household Survey, 2011.

Unemployment rates for various ethnic groups who migrated to Canada between 2006 and 2011 Source: Murtaza Haider, 2013. Data from the National Household Survey, 2011.

The recent immigrants are most likely to experience adverse labour force outcomes, such as un- or under-employment. This is primarily a result of moving to a new place where one does not have networks, one is unfamiliar with the system, and one’s credentials are either not recognised at all or are not recognised fast enough for one to have a career in one’s chosen field. The result of these limitations is that recent immigrants end up working odd jobs, trying to make ends meet. Eventually, they should be able to address these limitations and improve their employment prospects. For South Asian emigrants, this happens to be the case in Canada.

The unemployment rate of recent immigrants from South Asia, i.e., those who arrived between 2006 and 2011, was 14.9 per cent in 2011. The same for those who arrived between 2001 and 2005 was lower at 10.9 per cent. Similarly for South Asians who landed in the 90s, the unemployment rate was even lower at 9.2 per cent. And finally for those who arrived in the 80s, the unemployment rate was 6.8 per cent, and for those arriving before 1981, the unemployment rate was 5.9 per cent.

The above figures offer proof for the assimilation affect in labour market outcomes for immigrants. The longer the immigrants stay in the adopted homeland, the more knowledgeable they become of the rules and customs, and are more likely to succeed in the labour markets.

Despite the assimilation effect, immigrants classified as visible minorities continue to have larger unemployment rates than non-visible minority migrants. Consider that while 5.9 per cent of those South Asians emigrants who arrived in Canada before 1981 were unemployed, only 5.1 per cent of the non-visible minority immigrants were unemployed for the same time period. The unemployment difference between visible and non-visible minorities has widened over the years in Canada.

According to the NHS, the unemployment rates of immigrants did vary significantly across Canada in 2011. The worst employment markets for South Asians were in Quebec. Consider Montreal, Quebec’s largest city, where the unemployment rate for South Asian emigrants was recorded at 14.6 per cent. On the other hand, the most favourable employment markets for South Asians were in the oil rich Alberta province. In Edmonton, Alberta’s second most populous city, the unemployment rate for South Asian emigrants was much lower at 5.9 per cent in 2011. And while the unemployment rate for Arab emigrants was over 16 per cent in Quebec, it was around 9.5 per cent in Alberta.

Education does play a role in securing better employment prospects in Canada for the immigrants. Immigrants with an earned doctorate or Masters Degree for instance had an unemployment rate of 5.2 per cent and 7.2 per cent respectively. However, the unemployment rates for similarly educated non-immigrants in Canada were significantly lower. Consider that the non-migrants with an earned doctorate degree in Canada had an unemployment rate of merely 2.9 per cent, suggesting that highly educated immigrants, such as PhDs, had a 79 per cent higher unemployment rate than non-migrants with similar credentials. Even worse, one in 10 recent immigrants who arrived in Canada between 2006 and 2011 and had an earned doctorate degree was unemployed.

While the immigrants are able to improve their lot over time in their adopted homelands, the initial years of struggle are always painful. And secondly, immigrants are seldom able to plug the wage gap with the native-born, irrespective of their education and skills.

It is never an easy decision to begin with. However, as professionals chart out plans to migrate to foreign lands, they should know that the grass is always greener on the other side of the border.


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Murtaza Haider is a Toronto-based academic and the director of Regionomics.com.



He tweets @regionomics


The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.

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Comments (124) Closed


dhamu chodavarapu
Jul 03, 2013 07:40pm

Assimilation is not thing that hangs on tree just to be plucked. It needs you efforts. Let us ask what the immigrants did to get a job, just standing in the Q, do not get one any where. Try to learn the language, manners, culture will open some doors. What demands you make when you seek a job?.

Train and teach your selves to assimilate in the society, if you can

G.A.
Jul 03, 2013 07:45pm

Sometimes immigrants too are to blame. I have seen too many of them submitting their resumes, or 'bio data' as they call it, full of spelling mistakes and their personal information which is not required in North America most of the time.

Md Imran
Jul 03, 2013 07:51pm

I have many friends in US and Canada who left Pakistan thinking they are moving to "greener pastures". Now they regret that decision and wish they had stayed back as Pakistan rapidly progresses towards a service economy from an agrarian economy. Besides, Goldman Sachs has named Pakistan among top 5 "must watch" countries of this decade as Pakistan may well progress into a fully developed nation within the next 15 years.

Having said that, Canada should take a leaf out of European nations and US that has embraced Pakistanis readily. UK's NHS survives on the expertise of Pakistani doctors, same goes with software engineers in US silicon valleys were the brightest brains are Pakistanis. Why immigrate and get treated like second class citizens when you can achieve everything at home with dignity ? Haven't we progressed into a 200 billion $ economy without external help ? I don't mind when my friends and relatives move to ummah nations as Islam transcends borders. But people should think twice before immigrating to west.

Sam
Jul 03, 2013 08:20pm

Many of the Pakistani immigrants are simply lazy. Like in Pakistan, they want the government to do everything for them. This does NOT work in Canada. This is a Free Enterprise society that rewards entrepreneurs and hard workers. So if the immigrant want to better their lives, go out their and hustle. Stop making excuses and stop relying on the welfare handouts of the government. Take charge and make things happen. This is the world's best country. No doubt.

Yousuf Qureshi
Jul 03, 2013 08:47pm

Excellent article Murtaza! For us immigrant Canadians this is an eye opener that we should do something regarding this issue and get the government onboard to help us out!

Madhukar
Jul 03, 2013 08:54pm

Murtaza, As an immigrant Canadian, having lived and worked successfully in the US and Canada, it pains me to see numerous discussions on integrating immigrants into Canadian employment by offering "internships" and validation of foreign certifications while ignoring the main cause: plain and simple employment discrimination which is not there south of the border. To deny someone like a programmer a job due to lack of "Canadian experience" is nothing short of discrimination - and that's what needs to be addressed. It's as nepotistic here as a third world country. As for other integration...well, immigrants should read and understand the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and swear an oath to it so they/we come here and add to the place instead of turning it into something like our home countries - if I wanted that I should have stayed home.

INDIAN 29
Jul 03, 2013 09:03pm

As an Indian I will say there is no need to go abroad for Indians as here there are no dearth of jobs and also one will lead their life in a familiar environment which is another bonus. If at all someone wants to settle abroad then its better to go to Australia than Canada. Australia has much better job prospects than Canada and also the weather of Australia is awesome unlike Canada ( Deep Freezer).

Kumar
Jul 03, 2013 10:10pm

Sir, can you give the #s separately ie, Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis instead of lumping all together as Southasians. I am sure those #s will be eye openers.

mimi
Jul 03, 2013 10:26pm

@Mr.Murtaza You are lucky because you have got such a good country . At least you have equal rights and no discrimination , thanks to western style democracy . Now see the example of Saudi,Dubai and other Islamic countries . You don't have basic human rights , leave one the debate of Jobs. Please don't curse this land.

mimi
Jul 03, 2013 10:22pm

@Mr.Murtaza You are lucky because you have got such a good country . At least you have equal rights and no discrimination , thanks to western style democracy . Now see the example of Saudi,Dubai and other Islamic countries . You don't have basic human rights , leave one the debate of Jobs. Please don't curse this land.

Aamir - Toronto
Jul 03, 2013 10:45pm

We are still much more better than our neighbors in South and for that I thank ALLAH (SWT).

Muhammad Ali
Jul 03, 2013 11:22pm

Do not agree totally with you analysis. The unemployment data is based on how many ppl apply for the un-employment allowance. Many south asians do not get the proper jobs because of the un-parallel education and work experience between Canada and the native country. But most of them pick up the cash/temporary jobs and does not claim of having a job.

faisalzahidi
Jul 03, 2013 11:36pm

No one told you to come her by force. YOU or the immigrant came here by there own will. The writer forgot to mention that the rate of unemployment for the North American Educated in Canada as per the NHS is less then 2%.

Abbastoronto
Jul 04, 2013 01:19am

UlHaq
Jul 04, 2013 01:25am

It would be useful to know the proportion of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis among the South Asians as I think that these two groups would form a major part of the unemployed South Asian Community. I have observed three biggest reasons of unemployment for these two communities: unwillingness of these communities to integrate (by learning Canadian language, manners, values of the new society, making new friends etc), lack of hard skills that could get them decent jobs, and the hiring bias of Canadians themselves. Surprisingly, this bias is exhibited less by Canadian Whites and more by the rest like Chinese, East European etc towards Muslims in general and desis in particular.

malik
Jul 04, 2013 04:01am

Most people seem to be doing fine. But I been here for four years and am still trying to find my first job. I don't think it is going to happen. I think there is too much discrimination and prejudice against international credentials in this country. I am sorry but I cannot go back to KG and start my education again.

Akil Akhtar
Jul 04, 2013 04:27am

writer probably forgot to mention another factor, bias and racism. Not all but may locals are very biased against anyone who is different. Which is the case in most societies except ours where a forigner is treated better than the locals.

Ibrahim
Jul 04, 2013 04:27am

While the stats maybe true, the reality is that the majority of people from the visible minority work odd jobs which aren't reported to the Canadian Tax Revenue agency by choice....to save tax. Also, in Canada, unemployment will still let these immigrants lead a lifestyle that is better than what most middle and upper class in Pakistan enjoy. That said, obtaining Canadian education does make a lot of difference in terms of securing good jobs. I think Express Tribune posted a similar article about a year ago.

Darbullah
Jul 04, 2013 04:42am

I would like to know the unemployment rate of Hindus, Christians, ahmedis, Baloch, Sindhis and Shias in Pakistan before we point fingers at a first world country famous for its tolerance. Atleast the minorities don' t have to fear for their lives.

Imran
Jul 04, 2013 06:05am

Very good article and the real picture, similar is the case in Australia...

Amber
Jul 04, 2013 07:17am

Read your article, which totally makes sense. I agree with every word you have said here. However, people are still Immigrating to Canada from Middle East, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, China and Philippines. No matter how much Canadian Government makes strict rules for Immigration, people are simply desperate to get out of those countries and the main reasons are: Security, extremely low salaries to High Professionals, Free Education for children up to Grade 12, Free health care (even this is another topic all together, if discussed) etc.

MIckey
Jul 04, 2013 07:24am

The term "South Asian" is often used to skew the statistics and make them more favorable to countries other than India in the "South Asian" region. Often, not always, if it is good then it is Pakistani and if it is bad then it is "South Asian".

Would be interesting to see how the unemployment rates appear to be without these statistical gymnastics.

Avtar
Jul 04, 2013 07:30am

The grass is greener in Canada. First of all there is hardly any grass in most of South Asia. Even if one does not have employment in their professional area not many immigrants will go back to their birth place. One main factor, I found in finding jobs, especially professional, is the fluency of the English or French language. Experience also counts. Only exceptions are specialized areas such as IT, Accounting, or scientific areas where there are not many qualified local born candidates. Fluency in spoken language plays a key role in managerial/ supervisory jobs. One required a Canadian degree to obtain a professional job back in 1968 when I migrated. This is true to a great extent today. Frankly, you will not hire a person when they cannot communicate with customers or employees even if they have many degrees. It is difficult for immigrants to get a Canadian degree when they have a family to look after. Hence a tendency to accept less paying jobs.

aziz
Jul 04, 2013 07:34am

I believe that this statistics are facts... The basic reason is Racism... and dominance of groups of old immigrants who never let new people get in there system.. For example the waiting time for patients is increasing and shortage of docotrs is filled by hiring doctors from UK,while doctors with same degrees who are already immigrants are not entertained..

2nd point is culture of reference (SIFARISH in Urdu).... even if you want to be a peon you need SIFARISH ie reference..

3rd.. exploitation of Labors... In Canada peoples are exploited in the name of Volunteering and training... If you want a job you have to work VOLUNTEER there first ( with out pay / stipend) ...

there are lots of pit fall in the society any ways Canada is not a place to be immigrated by skilled or educated peoples... uneducated and betray people should go there for the sake of there next generation....

Abdul Hai
Jul 04, 2013 07:45am

I moved 9 months ago and still doing casual work at little over minimum wages. I am qualified accountant with experience in training and academics. However, I am very happy to have moved. It is a place where one person working at minimum wages can make the ends meet. I am affording a lovely little portion of house, a car and peace of mind. I would suggest all those planning to move to be prepared to move without ego and be prepared to do any kind of work for initial period. It is not only hard for south asians to find work with their education but even those with us qualification do face similar treatment. Business culture here allows only local qualifications appreciated. Further courses a,d training helps to find better jobs.

Ali
Jul 04, 2013 08:46am

BUt what to do when the grass is so dry at home?

Junaid
Jul 04, 2013 09:05am

Murtaza, good analysis. But your conclusion that "longer the immigrants stay in the adopted homeland..more likely to succeed in the labor markets" may be flawed. Immigrants from the 80s may have lower unemployment rates than those from 2006-11 period simply because those from the 80s who were unsuccessful in getting employment for prolonged period emigrated out of Canada to another country or returned to their home countries. A phenomenon known as "survivorship bias" makes it inaccurate to compare data across timelines.

Abrar Siddiqui
Jul 04, 2013 09:15am

This article is a gross mis-representation of numbers. Canada continues to be one of the best places for anyone to immigrant. Compared to most developed countries, this is still one of the most welcoming and accommodating society where state provides you free education and health. Author being in research faulty should have presented these numbers in a better way. The author should compare these numbers with other G-10 and developer companies with similar immigration policies. How are immigrants in USA, Germany, England, France, Australia, etc doing compared to Canada??

Are immigrants on other countries doing better percentage wise or worse?

That would provide better context. Its common knowledge and does not require much research to know that anyone moving to a different part of world will take time to assimilate in the new society, learn the cultural norms. Without proper comparison this article is incomplete and misrepresenting statistical numbers.

Meher
Jul 04, 2013 10:25am

Wow, its interesting to read an article commenting on Canada. I am a recent immigrant to Canada; have previously worked for over 18 years in the Middle East. Compare to Pakistan, UAE was a heaven for me where I had a reasonable income and lived with family peacefully. Today, living in Canada as a VISIBLE minority NOT EVEN WORKING in my field, I regret I should have immigrated here many years ago.

Canada is a country that has given me the opportunities I never dreamed of in our Muslim middle eastern countries (forget about the hopes in third world countries) where you are judged by your skin color and your nationality than your education or intellectual capability - with some exceptions.

This is a country where I am not discriminated by which God I pray to or not, what was my citizenship and if I am poor or rich. While it is true that recent immigrants do not get jobs in their intended fields; did these immigrants evaluated (including myself) their capabilities comparable to that of a native Canadian who was born and educated in this country? What about language skills of immigrants particularly those who immigrated directly from countries such as Pakistan, India or Bangladesh and Arab countries for that matter.

Many people from Arab countries come here as refugees, they do not have language skills and their education is a waste of time parallel to that of studying in a government institution in Pakistan.

Immigrants must use their brain in educating themselves by taking the opportunities available to all. I am 42 years old, currently studying for a Masters in education degree and working a part time job. One of my kid go to college, other two are studying in school that is provided free of cost. How do I support my family with a part time job living in an expensive city like Toronto? Well, the government assist people who make an effort for a better future for themselves and their families. Many universities and colleges provide bursaries and scholarships and the government provides loans and grants for education.

Immigrants need to learn, get an education in order to look for better opportunities instead of complaining about not getting jobs. Why do we immigrate to another country in the first place? Simple ! we don't like our original country for one reason or the other. And, we are not held at gunpoint in Canada. Those who think their original country was good, they can always go back - but they wont, for sure. God Bless Ca

Zeel
Jul 04, 2013 11:30am

South Asian category is deceptive. If you bifurcate it - Pakistanis will be much worse off.

jaffri
Jul 04, 2013 11:35am

despite gloomy statistics of joblessness among immigrants Canada has line up of woud-be immigrants. It suggests that their life is harder in their country of origin than in Canada

Ali S
Jul 04, 2013 12:36pm

I lived in Canada for six years as a teenager. We never thought we had fewer opportunities than anyone else because of our race or immigrant status, and I was even lucky enough to study in a private school there. If you have a good white-collar classification and the talent to back it up, then you'll be far better off in Canada than in Pakistan, that's for sure. Employment opportunities in Canada are more relative to marketable skills, not race or immigration. Sadly, Pakistanis see a conspiracy against them anywhere where they are not treated like kings.

khan
Jul 04, 2013 12:48pm

I was considering immigration to Canada. Your blog is really helpful for making the final decision for people like me.

Thanks for sharing this information.

newtee
Jul 04, 2013 01:01pm

It is more related to the communication skills and a desire to hard work and succeed.More better communication ,better chances of employment.Every employer wants to make money so employer is hiring applicant's skills,and it depends how quickly a person can be trained and what he knows already.A Phd or masters degree is worth only a piece of paper in Canada if this guy can not teach or explain to students in class room

farhan
Jul 04, 2013 01:30pm

South Asian unemployment is only upto 15% in Canada, but in Pakistan it is 50%. Not a difficult decision to make

cameo
Jul 04, 2013 02:23pm

South Asian category is too broad, i am sure Pakistani independently perform much much worse than Indians. That is the case in In UK. As an ethnic group we are right at the bottom behind Bengali and Afro-Caribbean blacks . On the other hand Indians are 2nd from the top just behind Upper middle class white. I am not at all surprised by this, the reasons behind this are obvious for anybody who care to introspect. And that is not because people are are biased against Muslims/Pakistani/brown. A significant majority of migrants from Pakistan are coming from backgrounds that just do not place enough emphasis on education and success in life. Our education system is absolutely useless anyway. India has got a much better education system costing only 1/3 of cost to educate per child.

An interesting thought:

May be as Muslims we have been told to believe not to worry too much about this life cause its just a tiny miny fraction of the eternal life anyway.

Imran
Jul 04, 2013 02:55pm

@Ali S: studying there in private school, I believe is something very different compared to getting your qualification or not being rightly qualified while being an immigrant to Canada. Given the background of the Author and his experience in Canada, he has given us some good insight into the matter.

Indian Nari
Jul 04, 2013 03:06pm

Good write-up and very useful info' even if this awareness is there amongst most Indians who aspire to migrate as retold to us by those who have migrated before. As a south Asian parent i am looking for sending my son for masters to either US or UK or Canada or Australia. Will keep this in mind for all assessments.

BCG
Jul 04, 2013 03:04pm

It is a joke to compare Indians with Pakistanis and Bangladeshis and put them under a South Asian tag. This tag is completely misleading as we have seen over and over all over the world including UK, US, Canada, Australia, Other European countries.

It is a well known fact that Indians abroad are far better on every human development statistic (education, employment, salary) than Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. Educationally and economically Indians as an ethnic group are among the best out competing even the Chinese and the Jews not to mention the native whites.

Indians are also much better integrated with the native population of the host countries and don't work to subvert the lands that feed them. It's a bad joke to talk about Indians and Pakistanis in the same sentence.

A Singh
Jul 04, 2013 03:58pm

As usual the top performers from Asia (Indians) are lumped together with the lowest (Pakistani's) We might be neighbours but thats about as far as it goes.

KFC1976
Jul 04, 2013 04:04pm

Absolutely rubbish article. First, you are comparing apples and oranges. Immigrating to another country is not just about "greener pastures", earning a living is just one variable of a big equation of life. There are 100s if not 1000s of factors to consider. Security, quality of living, transportation, school system, health system, corruption, outdoor activity, sports etc etc.

As a Canadian Pakistani (been there for 15 years) I can give a rational input and the biggest problem is not Canada but being a Pakistani. I love how as Pakistani we have achieved absolutely nothing but we are fore-front in writing opinionated articles. What has Pakistan contributed to the world in the last 20 years. I'm sure there is some but nothing major. Our identification nowadays is a beggar bowl nothing else.

For a litmus test, provide this article to all 170 million Pakistanis in Urdu and English and give them Canadian visa and see how many stick around in current Pakistan.

Unfortunately, Pakistan is now at the lowest of the lowest of the lowest. In a recent visit to my beloved country of birth one thing I found in the society was lying which is why I have named it Jhootistan. Everyone just lies to your face and this has trickeled down from the leadership.

Unless, there is a massive shakeup, Pakistan will not survive, the society's roots have rotten and they cannot distinguish between good and bad.

So, before critiquing any other country, look within.

Yes, I wasn't born in Canada but I love Canada to death, it has provided me more than it should have and I am proud to be a Canadian.

I would have been proud of Pakistan too if they would have elected Imran but I think Pakistan need another 1000 years before they discover the meaning of right and wrong I can go on and on about the state of Pakistan but ink will run out....

P.s. Canadian weather is not a deep freezer like some people are thinking. It has all the beautiful seasons with every season offering stuff to do. Not many countries in the world have this to offer

Akhtar
Jul 04, 2013 04:29pm

@Md Imran: Are you kidding or simply crazy! Where did you find all this Goldman Sachs report??? I work in US with this company, never heard of such an assessment.

Shakil
Jul 04, 2013 04:50pm

@Ali S: Hard truth

jos62@yahoo.com
Jul 04, 2013 04:57pm

@INDIAN 29: You have no idea what you are talking about. An Indian in Canada

CanadianFacts
Jul 04, 2013 05:15pm

Everything in great Canada is transparent unlike South Asian countries, thats why there is an arguement and base article by Murtaza. I agree with other posters as those who are top on the unemployed list; Arab right are mostly relying on resting their time and leaving families here to go back to their own countries and cause big number jump of umemployment. I have also found those who are unemployed for years survive only because of their odd jobs on Cash work like Taxi drivers etc. You need to groom yourself and polish talent to get employment here not to abuse the system by getting welfare on hard working Canadians cost. It is also true that there is biased treatment as well at high level in offices as Senior management bring their own teams when they had opportunity.

AHA
Jul 04, 2013 05:48pm

@G.A.: I agree. But it should be easy to handle this through community based efforts. All it requires is a positive attitude.

sagacious
Jul 04, 2013 05:50pm

Who is the beneficiary from this?

akhan
Jul 04, 2013 06:32pm

@Akil Akhtar:

Only if he is gora, if he is bengali or some body from Asia he is you know how we treat them?? So please come out of this that we treat people very well. And how we even treat our own people I dont have to tell you, go in interion sindh and south punjab you will find out

Fracking
Jul 04, 2013 06:34pm

I am very offended by this article as a Pakistani-Canadian. This article focuses on ONE metric from Statistics Canada, I cannot believe someone like Dr. Haider who teaches at Ryerson could write such a baseless article. Although this metric is accurate, it does not factor in MANY other elements that cause unemployment within minorities. If you are educated and have experience, there will be more doors open for you in Canada than anywhere else. My parents (very poor background from Northern KPK) are both Pakistani educated professionals who worked in various cities across Pakistan. Both are senior managers at large multi-national firms in Canada. So those of you looking at this article from the narrow lens of the author, I would HIGHLY recommend speaking to Pakistani-Canadians who have made it. They will be more than willing to guide you in the right direction as opposed to ranting about not being able to find jobs because of someones background or skin color. Just on top of head, in my last 6 years of work... I have run into about a dozen executives (VPs, C-suite) in various firms who were of Pakistani origin. In Canada, if you work hard and are honest with your efforts, you will get VERY far. That I can guarantee because I have seen my parents others go through the assimilation stage and come out just fine.

bangash
Jul 04, 2013 06:39pm

@Aamir - Toronto: You mean the US ? Tons of more jobs in the US than there ever were in Canada.

Yousaf
Jul 04, 2013 06:37pm

Stop complaining and work hard. I immigrated too and I love my new country. I don't have the best job in the world But I still try and do my best. Just because you came to a Progressive, Industrialized nation does not mean you will become rich overnight. Nobody will give you whatever you want. Be happy with what you have or else move back.

Imad
Jul 04, 2013 06:40pm

It all depends on what your skills are and where you eventually decide to land. Pakistanis and many other immigrants settle in the over saturated areas of Ontario and East Canada. There are so many opportunities available in the Western Canada region. Alberta is getting crowded but Saskatchewan and Manitoba are developing with several jobs.

Another important factor is how Pakistanis tend to integrate into society. Be social, meet people (and when I say people, I mean Canadian people), make contacts and networks, improve your skills (and most importantly English speaking skills) and be able to present yourself. No one here will hire a Pakistani Engineer who speaks broken English and smells like tandoori chicken (another big problem with Pakistanis, homes are not ventilated enough and they cook masalas and stuff the smell of which eventually goes into their clothes).

Canada is a great country - and it is the future of many Pakistani children.

bangash
Jul 04, 2013 06:43pm

@Md Imran: Pakistan is not a country worth living in anymore. No electricity, thousand applications for each job and terrorist groups who strive day and night to kill Pakistanis for some reason or another.

Dearborn Iffy
Jul 04, 2013 08:11pm

Hello Uncle,

I have read Murtaza Haider's article a couple of times now and your reply several times. Honestly, Uncle you are hopelessly out of synch. And I am now wondering your integrity and intelligence. What and who exactly are you trying to impress? Why are you degrading Islam?

I have a four year old kid cousin Dearborn Ossy who has just returned from a holiday in Turkey. When asked by his grandfather how he enjoyed his holiday, the intelligent little kid engrossed in deep thought replied: "Nanajan, Turkey is really not turkey........but people still call it turkey". Now to me that is logical thinking and an amazingly inquisitive mind. We need people of that caliber.

Incidentally, Dearborn Ossy is not an anglicized derivative of that monstrous jihadi beast of the Abbotabad fame but loves his shawarmas.

Mansoor
Jul 04, 2013 08:17pm

I worked in the areas of employment equity & diversity for many years and the numbers have alway shown that vismins have lower employment rates These gradually improve over time with succeeding generations through better and better integration. I am an ethnically South Asian Canadian by birth. My parents came here in the 50's. There were few South Asians then. It was hard being pioneers. They sorely missed their families, culture, food etc. On the other hand their were many good hearted "Canadians" who befriended and helped us. My parents never once complained about coming to Canada. A cousin of my mother once said Canada wasn't like back home. She replied, that is point! If it were than why would we leave? She said that shortly after arriving she saw a clean, beautiful land populated by a kind, courteous, gentle and generous people that smiled readily. I have been often regarded as foreign born in the land of my birth. Yet in South Asia, I am not regarded as South Asian either. I have felt the sting of discrimination on many occasions. Most of it subtle. Yet, it is nothing compared to they way minorities, specifically religious ones are treated in countries like Pakistan for example. Canada is not perfect by any means but we are regarded by the rest of the world as a multicultural experiment that works. It is still a work in progress.

Singh
Jul 04, 2013 08:24pm

Having lived in Kaneda as is affectionately called in Punjabi and running a small business, I normally employ Pakistanis as I find them very loyal. But my observation is that an average 1st time Indian immigrant family does better than an average Pakistani family because in case of Indian family both husband and wife will work and have fewer children whereas an average Pakistani family will have more children and wife will sit at home and only husband working. How can one make a good living when one person is working and have 4 to 5 person dependent on them?

Ayoub Alam
Jul 04, 2013 08:22pm

Work ethics in general of the communities under discussion is directly reflected in the unemployment statistics. To begin with hire an Arab and you see what I mean.

Dilawer
Jul 04, 2013 08:35pm

@Singh: the same is true for most Pakistanis in the USA. Most Pakistani woman do not work even if they are born in the USA.

Dilawer
Jul 04, 2013 08:38pm

@Mansoor: One thing for sure that is that your English skills are sub par compared to a person who is Canadian and went to school in Canada. Just read your positing and to find Why you are still considered as a foreigner.

Md Imran
Jul 04, 2013 09:16pm

From what i've observed in the middle east, and from what i've heard from my friends settled in the west, "south asians" is a very convenient term to generalize the people of the sub continent. Pakistanis and perhaps even Bangladeshis are far more innovative and successful than Indians, especially in business. This is perhaps the inherent nature of a muslim to thrive and succeed in trade compared to an Indian. Even in silicon valley, Indians are usually confined to coding / basic programming kinda roles, were as Pakistanis are usually in the senior management or venture capitalists. So it is unfair to peg Pakistanis together with Indians.

Saeed
Jul 04, 2013 09:19pm

@A Singh: All you have to do to see good performing indian is to go to Brampton and see any truck driver. Still would like to see a Muslim indian in IT. I have seen more Pakistani doctors in Toronto than indians. In any IT shop there is a ratio of 1:2 of pakistani and indians.This is a lot in favour of Pakistan compared to the population of both countries.

Syed Hussain Akbari
Jul 04, 2013 10:01pm

@bangash Mr. Bangash please do not blame any country for the negatives there. The bad luck with Pakistan in the last few years is that it did not have any sincere leadership and it has been managed very badly.. We should dislike the politcians who created the mess and not the country. All the countries are equally beautiful. It is we who have spoil or elevate it. Furthermore, Mr. Bangash please remember it that whatever you may be achieving in Canada, in the foundation of your abuility there will be the education which you got Pakistan. Be thankful for that. Finally, a question Mr. Bangash. You know how the religion Islam is being criticised and disliked these days. Will you blame the religion for that ? Of course not. It is the Muslims who are responsible for the tragedy. Bernard Shaw rightly said, "I love Islam,I hate Muslims". The same applies to Pakistan. I am also a Canadian citizen and I feel good and thankful about it . BUT my pride is still being a Pakistani.

A. Khan
Jul 04, 2013 10:01pm

@Md Imran: Interesting that you mention ummah and implicitly express a dislike for West while extolling Goldman Sachs view of your country, all in the same post. Perhaps you should read what you have written again.

A. Khan
Jul 04, 2013 10:10pm

Anyone not happy in what Canada has to offer, is welcome to move back to their country of origin. Canada does not prevent anyone from moving back. Its a free country. Sure some aspects can be improved but hey, don't all countries have problems ? And as regards, people finding it difficult to find work, for every one of those there is one who found a job within 2-3 weeks of landing in Canada. People have a tendency to blame everyone else for their own short comings.

Anyone planning to move to an English speaking Western country better make sure they are fluent in the language before leaving their home country. You will thank me for that piece of advice and I give it freely.

Some people are habitual moaners, they moaned about everything when in Pakistan, they moaned when in Middle East and not they moan about Canada.There is no point living in the West and moaning about it as well. Pack your bags and go back and quit making excuses that its very difficult.

Given the situation in Pakistan, I have yet to hear of any desi settled in the West who wants to move back to Pakistan. Well, actually there is one friend, but he keeps finding excuses to delay coming "back" to Pakistan. I guess he falls in the "habitual moaner" category.

Fracking
Jul 04, 2013 10:16pm

@Imad : Well said, Imad! if one honestly attempts to integrate into the society, Canada will accept you with open arms.

  1. I ask is do not bring your cultural and religious bigotry with you as it is not tolerated here, in any form.
  2. All fellow Pakistanis on this comment board who wish to immigrate to Canada, please research your place of landing as much as you can, do not come to a region which has no scope for your skills. If you can land in Ontario and expect to find a job in the Oil/Gas sector, you will be VERY disappointed. For that, you have to go west, Alberta. Try to connect with open-minded Canadian Pakistanis who have been in the country for 10+ years. Your first point of contact should be from your own background to make things a little easier if language and culture is a barrier.
  3. In addition, I encourage you to make connections within all circles of Canada beyond the Pakistanis. The goal is to assimilate and NOT create a mini-Pakistan, let's not repeat what happens in the UK and EU. This is the only way to get your foot into the door when it comes to jobs, in any industry.
  4. Firms in Canada value international experience and by that I mean, you have worked in numerous countries and possess degrees from various countries. Being educated in Pakistan and working there is NOT enough. Please try to obtain a degree in Canada, regardless of your age/experience/ego. For example, if you arrive here with a Bachelor of Arts in Communications, I would highly advise doing a Masters in Communication from Ryerson, Carleton, Queens etc... Do something to add value to your existing portfolio. Upgrade your qualifications, so if you already have a Masters in Communications, do a PhD or a post-graduate certificate in a college which offers internship or co-op terms. Your objective should be to get into the workforce and be marketable moving forward. The goal is not to give up and persevere. If you give up and end up driving a taxi in downtown Toronto, that is your fault, not the systems. I know of four Pakistani educated physicians who did qualifier exams here and are now practicing medicine under the College of Physicians and Surgeons. One of them is my own family doctor.
  5. Contribute to society, after you have achieved your goal of reaching a certain level of comfort/income, do your part of giving back to the community. Canada is built on volunteerism, try to help out in local shelters, food banks or any charity of your choice.
Same Patel
Jul 04, 2013 10:25pm

An earlier article by the author: http://www.dawn.com/news/720712/dollars-and-sense-of-american-desis "...Immigrants born in India outdo others in achieving economic success in the United States. Pakistan-born immigrants, while trailing behind Indians, do better than the native-born Americans.The estimates reported in the 2010 American Community Survey revealed that the median salaried household income of India-born immigrants was around $94,700. In comparison, the median household income of native-born Americans was estimated at $51,750. Unlike the Pakistan-born immigrants in Canada, who lagged behind others in economic prosperity....." By lumping pakistanis with SA, author is doing injustice to Indian immigrants. Indians are doing much better than 'white' in US, Canada , UK or elsewhere. If you just get data for pakistanis alone, you will find them at the bottom of the pile every where and abusing social welfare in UK and canada.

malik
Jul 05, 2013 12:15am

@A Singh: Indians always try to be superior to us. I read your newpapers everyday and you seem to be suffering from exactly the same problem we do. Even worse.

Kevin
Jul 05, 2013 12:19am

You can cherry pick all the statistics you wish, but compare the unemployment rate to that of India or Pakistan, then, factor in Freedom of speech, religion and culture, add to that Quality of life and Safety and childrens future prospects..................... yes my friend the 'Grass is much GREENER in Canada.

Naveed Ahmad
Jul 05, 2013 12:56am

The writer forget to mention the reasons why there is higher unemployment rate in these communities. The reasosn are :

South Asians and particularly Pakistanis bring second grade degrees from their native countries (nobody is sure if they had bought those degrees or actually qualified it). We all know the standard of education in Pakistan.

Failure to upgrade to Canadian Educational Standards.

Lack of Language skills.

Expect a lot with very less to offer.

Canada is a beautiful country with very less discrimination. There are genuine reasons for the new immigrants to fall behind (they are only to blame themselves).

Dearborn Iffy
Jul 05, 2013 01:00am

@Abbastoronto:

Hello Uncle,

I have read Murtaza Haider's article a couple of times now and your reply several times. Honestly, Uncle you are hopelessly out of synch. And I am now wondering your integrity and intelligence. What and who exactly are you trying to impress? Why are you degrading Islam?

I have a four year old kid cousin Dearborn Ossy who has just returned from a holiday in Turkey. When asked by his grandfather how he enjoyed his holiday, the intelligent little kid engrossed in deep thought replied: "Nanajan, Turkey is really not turkey........but people still call it turkey". Now to me that is logical thinking and an amazingly inquisitive mind. We need people of that caliber.

Incidentally, Dearborn Ossy is not an anglicized derivative of that monstrous jihadi beast of the Abbotabad fame but he loves his shawarmas.

Halifax06
Jul 05, 2013 02:42am

@KFC1976:

Agree! Canada is an ideal place to begin a new life. It offers a quality of life, the finest education & health care system and a high standard of living. The country is tolerant and has a diverse society where everyone is encouraged to build a good life for themselves and become a part of their communities!

Halifax06
Jul 05, 2013 02:47am

@Imad : Agree! Canada is an ideal place to begin a new life. It offers a quality of life, the finest education & health care system and a high standard of living. The country is tolerant and has a diverse society where everyone is encouraged to build a good life for themselves and become a part of their communities!

Halifax06
Jul 05, 2013 02:47am

@Meher: Agree! Canada is an ideal place to begin a new life. It offers a quality of life, the finest education & health care system and a high standard of living. The country is tolerant and has a diverse society where everyone is encouraged to build a good life for themselves and become a part of their communities!

Bharat Patel
Jul 05, 2013 02:55am

@Ayoub Alam: I did in Australia - and I also hired a North Pakistani.

The first was an imbecile - and the second was an outright thief

Bharat Patel
Jul 05, 2013 03:01am

@INDIAN 29: Australia has much better job prospects than Canada and also the weather of Australia is awesome unlike Canada ( Deep Freezer). ....... But on the whole we like some amount of discrimination against Pakistanis - we need Indians here in Australia - but we need fare fewer Pakistanis.

Shajia
Jul 05, 2013 04:19am

@Singh:

If a wife works too who will look after the kids? Secondly, keeping in mind the rates of day care I believe half of the income earned will be given away to the day care. Last but not the least, mother's presence is very important in 'bringing up' the kids not just growing them up. Living in Canada makes it all the more important to nurture our kids and keep them away from any bad company.

Shajia
Jul 05, 2013 04:28am

@Indian Nari: As a Pakistani living in Canada I would suggest you to send your kid here to study. Because university degrees here carry 'weight' even internationally. Also, your kids can land with very good jobs with proper educated acquired here. My brother too studied here and working in a reputable company in Toronto.

UlHaq
Jul 05, 2013 04:38am

@Singh: There is nothing wrong if one parent stays at home and take car of kids, full time. Not only is the child care expensive, it is not good for the development of a child if he or she spends a big part of their lives with strangers (caregivers, nannies and their partners etc). Many families in North America are now thinking of earning less but making sure that one of the parents stay at home to raise kids, full time. Working of both parents is destroying this society and many learned intellectuals are realizing this fact. If Indians are blindly following he west, then their next generations are on the path of destruction.

Akil Akhtar
Jul 05, 2013 06:48am

@KFC1976: Canada is thousand times better than Pakistan but it does not mean we should be ashamed of beign a Pakistani as it is our identity and we will forever remain one no matter how well you integrate in the west. Shame on people who are ashamed of who they are but this is also somethign we excel at.

NASAH (USA)
Jul 05, 2013 07:05am

@Indian Nari: Not the US? Why?

Sanjeev
Jul 05, 2013 07:12am

I have seen many people trying to escape their land of birth and settle in developed countries. That is rather funny. I work in Indonesia for last 18 years as director of a local company but plan to go back to India after retirement. One always more comfortable in his mother land as he is familiar with the place and customs. Why settle in a foreign land where you are not accepted as an equal and treated with respect.

A,Khan
Jul 05, 2013 07:15am

Murtaza, you wily fox, why are you discouraging more desis from coming to Canada ? I know there are a lot there but it's not for you encourage/discourage. How about an article on the successful immigrants there for a change ? Almost everyone seems to own at least one home for one. how many can claim to have taht in Pakistan ? The poverty figures are distorted as a lot of Pakistanis work on cash basis, don't pay taxes and also claim full benefits. Yes, I know all tricks employes and no, I don't condone it. You have used the poverty argument in a previous blog also.

Foreign Leg
Jul 05, 2013 09:12am

@Dearborn Iffy: LOL! Amazing wit!

Abbastoronto
Jul 05, 2013 10:29am

@DearbornIffy, Salam from Toronto

To know this society one has to dive deep and it appears that Prof. Haider may need another 20 years of active life to fathom what is really going on here. I have been fortunate - this soul has sent over 20 lawmakers to Ottawa and Queens Park, and married twice among the locals, lived in 3 Provinces east and west, and debated on many campuses from the day I set foot. The view that I have formed in the trenches is that this place is more corrupt than Pak/India could ever be, and that it has been going downhill for the last 42 of the 46 years ever since Nixon unhooked the dollar from gold, and have real stats to prove it. No wonder on the

rita
Jul 05, 2013 10:40am

I am amazed by the Pakistani culture of always finding negative things about other nations. The fact of the matter is that in every country the working culture is different and it takes a while to settle into it. The problem with most pakistanis is that they try to evade taxes and therefore work under the table, claim social benefits and produce like rabbits. You first need to understand the culture, integrate into society and everything will fall into place.

CanadianDesi
Jul 05, 2013 10:40am

@Singh: Your false statements proves you are not from Canada. Google Canada child care benefits and social housing,its a scam Canadian Sikhs,Indians and Pakistanis are well aware of. Just look around G.T.A (greater Toronto area) and see how south asians working in minimum wage jobs living in 4 bedroom detached houses and driving luxury cars and then talk to me about un/underemployment. Oh btw Ignore every expert from Ryersron University,its called 'Rye High' in Canada, Google it to see what that means.

Canadian Desi

Kuka
Jul 05, 2013 11:40am

Bhai yeah taxi chala kee log property khadi jar rage hain. Is baat ka moi masla nahi ki aap kitni taleem rakhte hain

Irfan
Jul 05, 2013 11:47am

@Yousaf: Excellent answer!!

Irfan
Jul 05, 2013 11:59am

@khan: This is what he wants! Discourage people from immigration to Canada. And he is himself living there!! Lol

Irfan
Jul 05, 2013 12:01pm

@Indian Nari: University of Toronto!! Go Go Go

Ali S
Jul 05, 2013 12:13pm

@Imran:

The point I was trying to make by saying that I was able to afford a private school there (there it's reserved for an elite group of people, not like Pakistan where every person lower middle-class and up goes to a private school) is that alhamdulillah my father was able to find a job of his field and have a decent enough income to afford me the best possible education, even by Canadian standards. And I know countless other people of Pakistani origin who are working there in their respective fields as doctors, IT professionals, engineers and other well-paying white-collar jobs. Those who whine about it either don't know how to market their skills, have a very narrow field of vision (most Pakistanis do not want to step outside the immigrant hubs of Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver) or simply don't have the talent. This is the cold, hard truth.

kilas78
Jul 05, 2013 12:42pm

Hello All,

The figures that are published here are not true. I have lived in this country and arrived as an international student, I have seen people striving and getting good jobs here.

But unfortunately the statistics as they reveal, mostly Arab and South Asian, are usually running Taxis, Trucks or doing some sort of their own business, which earns them a higher income $8-10k per month. This is the income that is not declated to Canadian Statistics, in order to get the unemployment benefits that the Canadian government provides. Hence all the Arab / Paki businessmen get the maximum benefits out of this lovely country and never return anything back to them. There have been many cases in families have been deported.

All people here earn good money, and have a very good living lifestyle, if not then the canadian govt. makes it happen by providing unemployment benefits, per child $1800 is paid monthly until the child gets 18 yrs of age. You get an interested free loan of upto $200,000 for your education and lots more.

All Paki Canadians living here, I beg you to stop cheating on this country and please pay your taxes declaring your income, so that true statistics can be revealed.

Saroj kapoor
Jul 05, 2013 12:55pm

THE ABOVE ARTICLE IS ,IN MY OPINION NOT BASED ON COMPLETE TRUTH. IMMIGRANTS PARTICULARLY FROM PAKISTAN DO NOT LIKE TO WORK AND GET CHECKS FROM GOVERNMENT FOR DOZENS OF KIDS. THEY HIDE REAL INCOME FROM TAXI DRIVING.

SMART IMMIGRANTS WALK AWAY WITH BEST JOBS WITHOUT ANY DISCRIMINATION.

Dearborn Iffy
Jul 05, 2013 01:37pm

@Abbastoronto: "The top 4 (Arabs, Black, West and south Asians) are stronger genes

gary
Jul 05, 2013 02:00pm

@Singh:

''The minority communities in this country, particularly the Pakistanis and the Bangladeshis have a very large number of children and the attraction is the large number of benefits that follow the child.

The 67-year-old said that immigrant families must stop having lots of children "as a means of improving the amount of money they receive or getting a bigger house."

The former Tory peer also claimed Indian families had a different mentality to Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities in the UK. "Indians have fallen into the pattern here," she told peers. "They do not have large families because they are like the Jews of old. They want their children to be educated.

"This is the other problem - there is no emphasis on education in the Pakistani and Bangladeshi families."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14909062

gary
Jul 05, 2013 01:59pm

@Ayoub Alam:

I have seen Omanis never employing local Omani people in Muscat.

gary
Jul 05, 2013 02:17pm

@cameo:

''Some white men remain behind their Indian and Chinese peers, who are increasingly high fliers.

The study says:

Faraz
Jul 05, 2013 03:10pm

I think its time to Migrate all the world it using Pakistan has trouf of war

waheed
Jul 05, 2013 03:20pm

@Mansoor: Sorry to say but i disagree. I have lived in this country for past 10 years and have worked most of the time on those levels of management where decisions are made and it is disheartening to see the discrimination , either intentional or otherwise, against visible minorities sometimes even on the basis if religion. I know many qualified doctors, engineers and Phd driving taxi cabs in the heart of Toronto. This discrimination and suspicion is even more visible when you move out of big cities to small , white dominant areas where racism is acute not only for the adults but for school going childerns if one desired to maintain one's cultural identity. Granted there are exceptions but Canada is not as open as the perception is , espacially majority of canada outside the big cities. This is painfully evident in central provinces.

Sonal
Jul 05, 2013 04:27pm

Interesting analysis / conclusions on the higher rate of unemployment for newer immigrants. It might be worthwhile also looking at the availability of jobs over the same period. If immigration grew faster than jobs creation, unemployment is bound to be higher.

There is some truth to the 'South Asian' / immigrant versus White argument though - perhaps there's a certain level of perpetuating one's self within the White Canadian population - the feeling that 'he / she is like me therefore will perform better in the job'... resulting in higher success rates for Whites.

Bharat
Jul 05, 2013 04:52pm

On the whole they don't want you here anyway. And since you cannot get employment ...well it is better you stay where you are.probably for us too.

ajnabi khan
Jul 05, 2013 05:19pm

I am not sure what this article proves? Points to Ponder: 1) Is the Filipino UE rate the lowest because many nannies just happen to be Filipinos or is there some employment priority given to them over the Non-Visible minorities? 2) Why is the Chinese/Japanese UE rate so close to that of the Non-Visible minorities? Is it because they are better educated; or, do they bring the right attitude together with good qualifications? 3) Is the UE rate for blacks/arabs the highest because these groups are stereotyped as violent? Could it be that "Bud se Badnam bura!" It is very true that perceptions about different communities do play a role in employment. However, this article may be discouraging for aspiring future Canadians from ethnic minorities just because the perception created by this article in distorted. Canada is a lovely and peaceful country that does provide many opportunities for people with the right qualifications, attitude; and, who are willing to put their head down and work hard. Sometimes, we need to look within ourselves to see if we can re-invent our self in order to succeed in a new country.

aaa
Jul 05, 2013 07:22pm

I would not advise anyone to move out of country. Money is not the only factor. Away from family away from your culture might not seem like a big price but with time it kills your soul.

aaa
Jul 05, 2013 07:26pm

one will always be and outsider nomatter how long you live. And the one who is using another country's resources.

AHA
Jul 05, 2013 07:22pm

@Shajia: I agree partially with your line of reasoning. Raising kids is definitely a worrisome task. However, this could be handled through a collective, community based solution, if there is a will, that is.

AHA
Jul 05, 2013 07:22pm

@Bharat Patel: Australia will go down the sink if China slows further, the good weather notwithstanding.

A. Khan
Jul 05, 2013 09:12pm

@A Singh:

You are correct. Pakistanis don't like being lumped with Indians. Period. Personally its a lot to do with personal hygiene as opposed to wealth.

Rafia Mirza
Jul 05, 2013 11:12pm

This is definitely disturbing, but there is another side to this story also.Canada is truly a multi racial country, a place where children are looked after no matter what & the old are cared for, far better than anywhere else.

Nassar Syed
Jul 05, 2013 11:56pm

Tired of the Canada bashing! -

Lets see, at a bare minimum..., better air, better (or at least) access to water, More security, more freedom, makes my stomach cringe when I see Mia Saheb introducing his 'Pra' to the Chinese Minister...!

I came here, studied here and am an Executive with a top Fortune 100.

For those who like to spread bad words for my home, one advice - Do not come here, no one is holding a gun to your head.

Oh and you should also mention those Immigrants here who come, then opt not to work so they can partake of the social assistance like free housing, free schools, free medical and monthly Dole.

Raheel
Jul 06, 2013 12:08am

What are the corresponding figures for US?

IBN-E-ASHFAQUE
Jul 06, 2013 12:09am

@waheed: Your observations ring a bell here in New Zealand too. The disease of racism is packaged, and camouflaged very professionally in the west.

Raj Patel
Jul 06, 2013 12:19am

Mr.Haider, definately grass is greener on Canada side and not on Pakistan side. I didn't heard any canadian or any westerned moved to Pakistan to be settled on the contrarary most of the Pakistani wants to leave their so called Pak country and live in western country. So titile of your blog is not only misleading it is out right incorrect. If you have any decency please correct it.

Ramesh
Jul 06, 2013 01:00am

I am living in Canada since 2003 and migrated from Pakistan. Majority of people who migrate from South Asia are well educated Engineers, Accountants and other professionals. There is demand of only skilled technical labour in this countrty like electricians, plumber, pipe fitters etc. Secondly South Asian community people do want to live in bigger cities and there are less opportunities there.

alfe
Jul 06, 2013 02:31am

@Akil Akhtar: "Shame on people who are ashamed of who they are but this is also somethign we excel at."

I agree....don't forget your roots which is hindu India, long before the partition.

alfe
Jul 06, 2013 02:33am

@Sanjeev: There is something that attracted you to go to indonesia which your mother country failed to provide to you. Whatever works best for you....

Laeeq,USA
Jul 06, 2013 02:50am

Well, what ever the employment rate is, there is no load shedding, your life is safe no matter what time of the day or night you are in the street. You have benefits which provide basic services like health and education. Canada is still the most peaceful country on the earth and almost majority of the people from Arabian peninsula has a second home in Canada. Grass is still greener in Canada than any other country on the earth. It will start fading out once the influx of more refugees and immigrants saturate the already strained system.

NASAH (USA)
Jul 06, 2013 02:53am

There is lot of talk on this blog by South Asians assimilating in Canada -- can you tell me in the USA HOW you have 'assimilated' in Canada?

gopal
Jul 06, 2013 04:00am

@Sanjeev:

Indonesia is a far better country than India. It is probably the most tolearnt Muslim country in the planet. I should know i lived in Jakarta.

Sindhi Hindus are doing very well there.

Aqil Siddiqi
Jul 06, 2013 05:23am

@Bharat: I am here in Canada for last 43 years. It is my experience, that if some one wants to work, there is a job for him(Not just any work, but the job he likes). It mostly depends on, how active you are, and how you come accross with people. Yes, Canada is not perfect, but, to me, there is no other country in the world, that I rather live but Canada. Over here, you have freedom of religion, speech, freedom to live with out fear among many other importand social values. I don't think, even in Pakistan, Pakistanis enjoy so much happiness and freedom as we enjoy over here. This writer has no clue, as what he is talking about. Don't always go with stats, as they most of the time are misleadings. Aqil Siddiqi (Canada)

Aqil Siddiqi
Jul 06, 2013 05:27am

@Saroj kapoor: Do not say"Pakistanis", I have seen many Indian and other families, especially from Africa, who does that. As a matter of fact, Pakistanis and Indians over here are the one, who you will find less, as for collecting "Welfare" and Unemployment Benefits. Please. do not be a Stereo Type. Aqil Siddiqi

Irfan
Jul 06, 2013 07:19am

I find it rather unfortunate that people give wrong information to their fellow brethen. The face is Canada is a racist country (this is not to say Canadians are KKK types who come charging at you). Most discrimination is very vocal but very lawful (in Canada they dont like to call it racism but systemic discrimination....lol and thats the official term). But what is also true is that a lot of people who do not gain employment open Immigration Agencies and so on which paint a rosy picture of Canada back home to get business and confuse people. Most of the favorable postings of Canada are from this group. What also happens is that people from Pakistan are more interested in getting their unworthy relatives into Canada and producing more kids to exploit the Canadian taxpayer which breeds even more dislike for them. This is a cycle that continues. For the record - 1. Toronto has the most qualified taxi drivers in the world 2. 30% of new immigrants move back to home countries from Canada within a year (this obviously does not apply to Pakistan but better nations like China & India) 3. 60% of all skilled immigrants leave Canada within 6 yrs (again does not apply to Pakistanese, Iranians etc) of migrating to Canada 4. Despite huge media campaigns and high level of unemployment in other developed countries noone from a US or Italy or France wants to migrate to Canada

All statistics are from statsCanada

Vikki, Pul Bangash, Dilli
Jul 06, 2013 07:49am

Hello All, Good to learn various experiences of Canadians here (of South Asian origin).

The root cause of the article is that our South Asian community has a real hard time to integrate with Canadian society, living in their own small community puddles, no desire either to learn about Canada and its people and the culture. No wonder they have a hard time even in one of the most developed countries in the world. They all love Toronto, no desire to move within Canada and suffering from stiff competition, high population of Toronto and GTA. I'm myself a seasonal worker, work in Alberta for 4-6 months and back to Dilli, big step was, moving to Alberta and now even reside in Dilli. Imigrants must try to integrate with Canadian Society and learn more and more about this beautiful country and its culture rather than staying in their smelly homes and crying and whining about Canada. PS: Get out of Toronto and move on with better salaries, rather than working for minimum wages in Toronto and GTA................Sell those smelly houses that have bound you in Toronto and GTA..........and move out to AB or SK......Keep your culture but learn Canadian one too.............Aur apni Angreyzee ko bhi theek karo.........yahan to aap sab ke liye Angreyzee taleem bhi Free hai........Aur citizenship mil jaye, to O'Canada ko bhi dhang se yaad kar lo, uskey matlab ke saath.........

KFC1976
Jul 06, 2013 09:28am

@Akil Akhtar: You've said it exactly right. I am ashamed of being a Pakistani in it's current state because 1. It has come to a level where people dig up 15 year old girl and rapes her 2. There is lying and fraud on every level of society, president lies, government officers lie, you and I both lie, Rickshaw wala lies, the masi that works in our home lies, sports person lies, heck even our own relatives lie 3. We use religion as a crutch where not even a SINGLE rule of Islam is followed a) Islam says "safai nisf imaan hain" go check out our public and home washrooms. Check our streets and galis outside our homes b) Islam says trade honestly. 99% population of Pakistan that you deal with financially want to screw you c) Islam says don't be someone you are not. More than half the people in Pakistan show off even if they cant afford it d) Islam makes us pray five times a day, and makes us stand in straight lines. Not even a single line is formed in any shop, mosque or other public places 4. It has lost the basic attributes which make us humans such as in an accident, people steal your wallet and personal belongings instead of attending the injured Yes, western societies are not perfect by an stretch of the imagination but they are 100,000% better human beings.

Yes, I feel ashamed when someone asks my heritage and It will keep on happening until Pakistan's society wakes up and smells the coffee. This is a country where we spend half the money on defense and if you ask a forces person, "What will happen if India attacks" answer "We cannot last a week" then why the heck are we spending all this money. Forces are an elite club in Pakistan nothing else, they do horse riding, scuba diving and training in up north, yet they cant fight a damn. All forces can do is sifarish of their rishtaydaars and help their rishtadaars vacant a forced rented residence

Just look @ Germany, Japan, South Korea and now China. How proud they feel as a society, as a nation. What has Pakistan come down to? Remember, to see the strength of a nation, check the fundadmentals, if they are screwed up, it's Allah Hafiz and currently Pakistan's root are not just rotten, they are decimated. Travel around the world with Pakistani Passport, you'll see why I am ashamed of current Pakistan.

Yes, I can never change where I was born, but if Allah gives me one wish, I wish to be a true muslim born in a civilized western country

What is there to be PROUD OF AND NOT BEING ASHAMED

Joe
Jul 06, 2013 12:24pm

@Md Imran: Huh that's a joke!!!! and looks like you know nothing about Silicon valley and your skewed logic of Bengali and Pakistani owing companies or holding high posts... From what you have written I could gather that you never been to Silicon Valley and "Heard" from other Pakistanis. Infact many Indians own many start ups there and are highly placed in World biggest IT cos like Microsoft, Oracle, Google with Back office in Indian cities like Bangalore.....I myself worked in valley and know this as a fact. Venture capitalists like Khosla ventures, Indus etc funds some of the best startups from valley and go do a bit of research before writing crap on public forums. But I agree that some nationalities have stringent background check in US before even inducting or collaborating with them and unluckily Pakistanis and Bengalis fall in that category...and reasons for that is in your name....