This blog is part 3 of a four-part series that attempts to understand the enemy within; and why and how our establishment has fed this monster for decades.

See Part 1: Coexistence with India - I

See Part 2: Coexistence with the world


All medieval conquerors were basically predators; they lived at the cost of the people they conquered, appropriating their resources, which naturally antagonised the subject people.  Muslim rulers, after the first four caliphs, used the Islamic doctrine of Zimmitude generally to their worldly benefit.

Rulers can win their subjects’ respect, even their affection, with their wisdom and justice. After many atrocities and crimes against their Indian subjects the British were able to leave India as almost friends, and no hostility exists today between them and their former subjects because their leaders and people confessed their crimes; they agreed to leave; and they left many gifts of value like modern learning, religious tolerance, systems of governance, constitutional democracy, science and technology.

Unfortunately, unlike the colonial capitalists of Europe, our ancestors had very few benefits to offer to their Zimmis in India which could endear them to their subjects. Added to it was the religious pride of our ulema that believed in the supremacy of Islam and flaunted it without a semblance of courtesy or hesitation. This only antagonised the subject people ever more deeply and necessitated perpetual use of force to maintain Muslim rule. In order to nourish the fighting spirit of the soldiers and common Muslims, ever more pride of faith and ever deeper contempt for reason was injected into their psyche through the ulema and clergy. The principle of equal human treatment of the Muslims and non-Muslims remained alien to their rule.

The absence of positive performance was compensated with boastful pride of the ability to destroy. That is perhaps an inherited attitude when our orators in Pakistan proudly talk of what we destroyed: our ancestors destroyed Indian idols and kings followed by the recent smashing of the peaceful Buddha; recently we destroyed the Soviet Union, we have pushed America to disaster, we shall destroy India, Europe and every system of “Jahiliah”, including our own systems and people in Pakistan and Afghanistan. This mindset hardly ever asks: what did we create or build?

We, as a nation, have gradually lost all respect for science and scientists; we have substituted research with conspiracy theories; we boast of our nuclear build-up, which is again an ability to destroy, not defend, an ability stolen from heretics without learning the science that creates it. This shortcut mentality, to escape science and invention, is an expression of our lazy, self-righteous pretensions. To bury the guilt, our power hungry ulema expects us to admire a scientist, a nuclear opportunist who admires the Taliban, and hate the real scientists of the world as heretics.

It is, therefore, natural for our people with this mindset to support the monster when it destroys Pakistan and the world with the banner of Islam in its hand. Self-righteousness is the dismissal of humility; it jams our ability to objectively appreciate merit, so that the virtue and merit of others never attracts our attention. Bragging of our own virtue and merit grows louder as our record of performance dips. This dichotomy of practice and pretension paralyses judgment and kills the resolve to make amends.

Ever since Independence, our governments and army leaders propagated the easy excuse that India aspires to annex Pakistan to realise an ancient Hindu dream of “Greater India”. But was this view realistic? Is it an exclusively Hindu dream? The fact is: Muslim rulers and the ulema also desired Greater India. They had endeavored hard for centuries to rule the whole of India; many times in these seven centuries they tried to hold Afghanistan with one hand while holding Bengal with the other. Ever since 1947, our generals and leaders have tried to grab Afghanistan and hold Bengal by force. Our lions and eagles still dream to destroy Bharat and make it a Muslim colony again.

Thus, it was natural for the ancient people of the subcontinent to dream of a united India even if it was no more possible. Long before the Muslim conquerors, India had Ashoka, Kanishka and Harshwardhana who ruled large parts of India with no less glory than the Muslims did. It was hardly anything abnormal if some nostalgic sons of the soil wished to restore their past glory in their own land, while the majority did not share the dream. Hindus have lived in this land for more than 4000 years with a deep sense of belonging. On the contrary, our Muslim ancestors came 1000 years ago and did not develop a sense of belonging. They did not assimilate or integrate with the people they ruled, keeping their identity as foreigners, with loyalty to the holy lands of Arabia. The British also ruled as foreigners but they did not demand a part of India like we did; they agreed to leave India while we did not, although we declared that we were not Indians. Our self-righteousness so limits our sense of justice that what we practice with great pomp and show, seems hateful to us if others desire it.

Justice and honesty demand that facts be examined before we accept or reject a claim. The facts did not verify the claim that India aspired to annex Pakistan or a part of it. Although a limited right wing of Indian politics threatened to avenge the wrongs of history, yet that mood never dominated India. On the contrary our opinion makers and the ulema on this side of the border kept pushing up on mass level the hype to conquer Kashmir and hoist our flag over the “Red Fort”.

It is difficult in Pakistan to state the fact that India did not annex Bhutan, Nepal, Sri Lanka or another dependent country. It did not annex Bangladesh which achieved its separation from Pakistan purely with Indian Army action. The wars which we claimed as Indian aggression on our eastern border were later exposed as our own initiation. These are facts that embarrass our claims of persecution.

To be continued...

The author is a renowned Pakistani intellectual. His Urdu books Tehzeebi Nargisyat and Mubaalghe, Mughaalte are widely regarded as the revival of critical thinking and free inquiry in Urdu non-fiction.


The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.

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Comments (315)

February 20, 2013 1:33 am
Previously in present day Pakistan....Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs used to live...So all Muslims like you, who cannot live with others should jump into Arabian sea like your Great Osama....then all problems solved in the sub-continent
February 20, 2013 12:59 am
Why coexistence with India, why not coexistence with Pakistan? When you talk of coexistence you should talk of mutual coexistence of Pakistan and India and not of Pakistan (tacitly) with India. As your topic is self contradictory and one sided so are your stories. Looks like you don't know why it became necessary for Muslims to demand for a separate country (Pakistan) at that time. You did not criticize Indian nuclear built-up but criticised your own country's Pakistan which had become necessary for its coexistence with India which on times have been proved also. Shame on you.
Mohammad Raja
February 20, 2013 1:18 am
I think you should also consider that western colonist and explorer are still in many countries where they did not meet tough resistance and now live permanently as nation of immigrants like north and south America's Like Falklands , Australia , Africa , Iceland and Greenland. You cannot say that as Britishers left India ,now the Muslims should also leave and go back to Ejaz . Muslims will go to every remote place in the world and spread the message of Almighty AALLAH Which came through the Profit Muhammed peace be upon him. We should never condone the injustice ,lawless ness and the corrupt practices of any Muslim leader s whether in Pakistan or India or Bangladesh or Arabia Or Africa Honesty ,Education and modern scientific research and adherence to Islamic principals and Islamic values is a must. My best regards Mohammad H raja
umesh bhagwat
February 20, 2013 1:13 am
good article but sympathetic to the british who ruined India!
February 21, 2013 12:01 am
Good for India, not fo Pakistan. India is expansionist and tends to attacks during peace time. For example: 1965, 1971.
February 19, 2013 12:53 pm
Baloch, You get the point .. don't you?
February 21, 2013 4:43 am
so Dear Khan.. At last you believe that u are converted!!!
February 19, 2013 8:40 pm
Wow, you are rewriting history. Kutub Minar was built on the ruins of Hindu and Jain temples. Go take a trip and see the basement of the minar. A solid example of destruction. Bengal famine was make bigger by Churchill who did not release food from the godowns on purpose.
February 19, 2013 7:40 pm
Someone should remind the writer of Kashmir, Goa, Hyderabad, Assam, Nagaland. These facts are difficult to accept for the constantly apologizing "intellectuals".
February 19, 2013 10:34 pm
Is going to jail a prime criteria of good leaders?? I thought jail is a place for criminals, do you disagree?
anonymous indian
February 19, 2013 11:25 pm
Sorry Mr. Banatwala...mighty economies are not made by number of people. South Korea, Japan are developed despite having small populations. Germany, and large parts of western Europe have small populations but are affluent. As for Pakistan, you are most welcome to emigrate if you see a brighter future there. We will have less mouths to feed in India.
February 19, 2013 8:29 pm
In India the so called Hindi belt (actually where a majority of muslims live) is backward. Education is the key. I do see S.Asian muslims in Middle East act as if they are arabs forgetting their own culture and history. Time to look inwards instead in the westerly direction
February 19, 2013 7:03 pm
Obviously. But from our perspective that was a glorious time.
February 20, 2013 12:44 am
People who can reason are powerless in Pakistan. Fanaticism is the only voice one can hear.
Fresh Graduate
February 19, 2013 10:58 pm
Cannot deny the fact that for most people in Pakistan the IMMEDIATE ancestors were possibly Hindus. However even if you look at the history of prophets the case will be that they broke away from the pagan rituals and stood by what was true word of God. Do you care to go and also find the ancestors of Hindus?? You will eventually go all the way to the first Prophet Adam, so i don't understand why do you want to only stop tracing your roots to Hinduism?
Y. Sodhi
February 19, 2013 8:09 pm
Mr. Haider: I am so moved after reading your article. You are a real patriot, a great citizen of the world. After reading your articles, I can see hope for Pakistan for there are bound to be more people like you in your country who perhaps have not found the courage to express themselves. To be certain there will be detractors along the way, but I wish you all the best in propagating your message of goodwill toward all.
Dr Dang
February 19, 2013 8:05 pm
Just one word : WOW
February 21, 2013 4:20 am
Javed Miandad is a close relation of Dawood Ibrahim, one of the top ranking members of India's Most Wanted criminals, and No.3 on Forbes World's Top 10 Most Dreaded Criminals list. Of course he is unwelcome in India. Next. And you know what? The Pakistani Women's Cricket Team played all its matches, in peace, in a cordial atmosphere, performed reasonably and went back home satisfied, and most importantly, ALIVE. Which is more than can be said of ANY international sports team that visits Pakistan.
February 19, 2013 6:59 pm
Well written and thought provoking article.
February 20, 2013 3:44 pm
well said but I still believe its too late for Pakistani ppl - they live a life which is based on falsse idenitty. they never accept the facts you wrote.
February 21, 2013 4:52 am
Think?....thought? can?
February 19, 2013 8:04 pm
My dear esteemed courageous friend you follow in the great footsteps of Ibn Warraq. I fear for you but I deeply admire you.
February 19, 2013 6:34 pm
Please move to Pakistan A.S.A.P
February 19, 2013 7:42 pm
February 20, 2013 4:08 pm
cant wait to see the 4th part! ... keep up the good work ..
February 21, 2013 4:43 am
Read history...Jinnah and others tried their best for undivided India.Only that minority should have their basic rights. Jinnah was in Congress till 1930 or so. When diiheartend he left for UK....Finally in Congress meeting an interval of 10 minutes for prayers was not allowed and Zafarali khan Editor Civil militory Gazzete left Congress. When they cannot tolerate Dalits(scheduled insulting name) and Sikhs....the muslims who ruled(not as muslims but Afghan dynasty)for 1k yrs were a disgust(touch and wash hands. Wish and Pray that both sides have sense to create such a relation which may allow them to live like a Family!!! India my mother land but facts....
February 20, 2013 2:33 am
Just one question....Dear author are you alive???...I really fear for your life after such a truthful artcile....May god bless you for a long life...
February 20, 2013 2:33 am
I am begining to like Dawn more and more. Dawn is not only bold, but there is integrity in this website. Mobarak Haider, you are a gift to this world via journalism. I hope to read more of you in the future.
February 19, 2013 7:39 pm
Well said Vashu, and I completely agree with you. We Indians MUST also learn from great thought leaders such as Mr. Mobarak Haider here, learn about things not to do in a society. And strive very hard to make India a better place and contribute to making the world a better place for everybody; irrespective of any cast/creed.color or religion. Thanks Mr. Haider. and best of luck.
Deb; India
February 20, 2013 1:32 pm
Dear Nitish, Say 'my perspective' instead of 'our perspective'. 'Me', or 'We' if you like, have not appointed yo as my/our spokeperson. Stay within the context of the article. You are jerk, whom I know from the pages of ET.
February 19, 2013 7:01 pm
Guy, Be careful. You could be target next. People who speak truth are always targets of people who want to control and power.
February 19, 2013 12:53 pm
I salute dawn to publish this article....good to see freedom of expression....
February 19, 2013 7:35 pm
@Thomas +1, well said, but it's hard to get the message through thick skulls. There are a few (such as the author of this article) who are willing to evaluate the evidence, others always like to stick to the same rhetoric of "everybody else in the world is bad except the pakistanis".
Mansoor Banatwala
February 19, 2013 12:52 pm
We must still face the reality of Partition. Muslims in what is now left of India were the most passionate about Pakistan and the break-up of India. But after 1947 a Pct signed between Liaqat Khan and Nehru prevented our going freely to the land that we love and fought for. Partition must be completed by revoking the pact and letting all Muslims stranded in India to go to Pakistan and westwards and become part of the ummah. We cannot do it here in India under Indian secular rule. Of course Bengali Muslims in West Bengal would go to Bangladesh. Partition was a great idea but its uncompleted Partition that is causing the problem. Muslims can never be Indians once Partition happened. Qaid-e- Azam clearl stated Hindus and Muslims are two different nations.
February 20, 2013 12:24 am
Every Indian reading this article will only say, "Padhke dil khush ho gaya"!!!
Anand Kapoor India
February 19, 2013 7:09 pm
Mubarak Haider, may your tribe thrive. If there are more deep thikers like you in both our countries, their problems can be solved. God bless you brother!
February 19, 2013 7:10 pm
You are among very few who realize the truth. thats the sad part. but atleast you give some hope
February 20, 2013 2:41 am
"Bangladesh which achieved its separation purely with Indian army action", and this shows the pure love and affection of India for Pakistan!!! British did not left Subcontinent for peace, but compelled to leave by the changing world atmosphere. It was your loving, caring British whose colony was spread from east to west. And u also forget the advisors, Noratans of Akbar and others. Despite the 'jahalt' and superiority complex of Ulema, there r so many ancient Hindu mandirs still exist in India. What about your beloved 'shevsena', because of which Pakistani woman cricket team matches were moved, and Javed Miandad was not allowed to visit India? Definitely it's Pakistan army and Ulema who r feeding this shivsena. Dr Khan was an opportunistic!? What about Dr Kalam-he was not trained outside India, he learned all his nuclear knowledge in India. People like u can exist only in Pakistan, amazing.
February 20, 2013 12:56 am
The hair on my arms stood on its on its end ! This is indeed the writings of a journalist that draws no parallels. If there is ever peace between India and Pakistan, you must be the God-gifted messenger who will have brought it about. Good Luck.
February 19, 2013 6:50 pm
"They had endeavored hard for centuries to rule the whole of India; many times in these seven centuries they tried to hold Afghanistan with one hand while holding Bengal with the other. Ever since 1947, our generals and leaders have tried to grab Afghanistan and hold Bengal by force." I think you meant to say seven decades not seven centuries. Pakistan cannot grab Balochistan and Karachi let alone all of Afghanistan whose leaders' names are glorified in your textbooks and your missiles are named after them. The Afghan ethos will never allow its sons to be subjugated by Punjabis, go ask the British, Russians and now the US about this ethos.
February 20, 2013 11:34 am
This is the best article that I have read on It takes a lot of courage to say what the author said especially in an intolerant society like Pakistan. Hats off to you sir. Pakistanis should realize that their ancestors were not arabs but Hindus who were forced to convert to Islam and did so to save their lives. Unfortunately today they seem to hate their original culture and have become slaves to the same arabs who forced their ancestors to convert. Give up hatred and violence against Indians.
S Kumar
February 20, 2013 12:11 am
You can take Tip Sultan off the list. The crimes he committed in Kerala is readily available if you search in Google.
February 19, 2013 11:45 pm
Once again an excellent and truthful article!
February 20, 2013 9:12 pm
Telling points Zak. They don't look under their 'giraban'. Good to let know you know their hidden secrets.
February 20, 2013 1:33 pm
well said.
Tripta Singh
February 19, 2013 3:21 pm
Erroneous article most Muslims in the subcontinent are converts from Hindus. The conquered often identify with the conqueror but not us Hindus, we always resisted and won when force was used for conversions.
February 19, 2013 6:14 pm
Hi Haider, It is good you write in English Paper not Urdu. After reading your article I am really worried about your safety. Your thought are against 99.9% of populace. Please care full about publishing this article in Urdu press.
asad ahmad
February 19, 2013 6:13 pm
can any one provide me his book tahzeebi nargaziat in english
February 20, 2013 1:46 pm
Its really unfortunate that inspite of author's brilliant analysis and thoughtful concept of co-existence in Indian sub-continent, hate mongers like you are not enlightened as yet. The author has rightly mentioned about the psyche and attitude of past and present day society of Pakistan who invariably believes in supremacy of their religion over other faiths is evident by your filthy and abusive language. I am pretty much sure that it takes another century for Pakistan to return to a vibrant democracy with tolerance nature.
February 19, 2013 7:29 pm
@Zak very thoughtful. No wonder Pakistan suffers the way it does today. Keep it up.
February 19, 2013 6:10 pm
Have you ever been to Hyderabad, India. I live in Hyd. You will see many communities living peacefully here. You are so wrong!!
February 19, 2013 7:29 pm
Very nice article but even coexistence with Shia will keep Pakistan fine
February 21, 2013 2:10 am
The Muslim rulers considered themselves to be the real Muslims and the Muslim subjects are considered to be of inferior lot. This is reflected in their marital relations. Nizam of Hyderabad is married to women of Turkey
Illiterate Indian
February 19, 2013 6:05 pm
Pakistan is a regional power and Taliban is a super power.
February 19, 2013 6:00 pm
Brilliantly said Ali.. proud of you. The reason why Pakistan is failing not only as a state but also as a society is divided allegiances. A lot many people are misguided priding themselves on some arabian or turkish origin..reflecting a sorry state of affairs and a deep-rooted inferiority complex. Pakistan should learn from countries like Malaysia and Indonesia - 2 muslim majority countries where people are proud of their pre-islamic past and consider themselves sons of the soil and continuation of the same civilization and heritage. Hence those countries are peaceful and have very few problems compared to the identity crisis that seems to have engulfed Pakistani society
Masood Ali
February 19, 2013 6:05 pm
what utter rubbish.what gives you the right a self righteous do gooder to belittle muslim ulema and muslim rulers.have you been blinded by hatred emanating from the hindu.the seeds of hatred where sown during the second up rising against the british raj..the british then very cleverly.punished the muslims while rewarding the hindus and sikhs..muslim property was confiscated and given to the Hindus and sikhs,,this is what was known as divide and rule..the author is a bastard hindu..just look at his face its written all over it.
February 20, 2013 10:06 pm
Every single Indian publication and media denies your claim. They are loaded with hate for Pakistanis and Muslims. Words like genocide them, ethnic cleanising, untouchables, and extermination is often used for Muslims in Indian media.
February 20, 2013 11:10 pm
Dear Raj, May I point out that by wording out so outlandishly, you are yourselves becoming a victim to this hatred that the writer is trying to soothe. Chill man!!! Let us decide whether it was a forceful conversion or not. Lets just read this article objectively and analyse. I do appreciate and congratulate the write for being so honest about this issue. However, I do not agree with all that he has to say. That is how a civilized world should be like. Respect other's opinion, only accept what you think is right and have your own.
Rubicc V.
February 21, 2013 12:06 am
If he lived in India and wrote against it as he does against Pakistan than he would be in prison like that guy in hyderbad,
February 19, 2013 3:54 pm
Let's start with your last sentence: " (India) cannot fathom the fact that Pakistan is a regional power on par with India ". On par? Really? This is pure fantasy.
February 21, 2013 12:27 am
Disagree 100%.
February 19, 2013 5:47 pm
never heard about such a revival yet.... nor is it true.
February 19, 2013 5:13 pm
Mr Shujaat what ever you said is untrue. Mr Vaipayee came to Pakistan to strengthen the friendship but Pakistan invaded Kargil. When things got settled down but Indian parliament was attacked and then this Mumbai attack. Indian are peace loving people that is why India has progressed in many fields.
February 19, 2013 3:52 pm
So here we go again - visions of grandeur with not a shred of humility or logic.
Lakhkar Khan
February 19, 2013 5:47 pm
Author is not the only “HONEST THINKER”. There are/were plenty of humanitarians, saints, pirs, fakirs, leaders and everyday Muslims who put their own lives in danger to protect the religious and ethnic minorities, not only in present day Pakistan but prior to the creation of that land. The vast majority of Muslim converts embraced Islam for that reason. They saw Islam the religion of peace and equality and justice. The current day religious radicals are undoing the hard struggle for peace and justice our elders had done. An everyday Pakistani is as sick and tired of those radicals as a Hindus or a Christian is.
K G Surendran
February 19, 2013 1:52 pm
CONGRATULATIONS to Dawn and Mr Haider - for a very thought provoking piece! As people, wherever we are, we need to be honest with ourselves to take the necessary corrective measures but if we are dishonest and refuse to look at the mirror then our subsequent actions will also be misguided and on the wrong path. Better to admit your mistakes than sweep them under the carpet. This portrayal of religious supremacy has always been the cause of social friction. Looking forward to Part IV.
February 19, 2013 5:32 pm
WOW!!! Mubarak Haider, You are one intelligent man, honest with so much integrity and the moral courage to reflect on historical facts with such clarity and incisiveness. I some times wonder how come with people like you in Pakistan( and there are quite a few more I read in DAWN); Pakistan is still a mess? You not only have my respect but my gratitude as well. From a Grateful and Proud American of Indian birth who wishes Pakistan nothing but the Best.
February 19, 2013 5:46 pm
"could be more friendly and forgiving"? really? how forgiving would you be if terrorists came from India and killed innocent civilians in Pakistan and the Indian government does nothing? I think India is more than friendly with someone whose stated policy is to " blead India through a thousand wounds" I have to object to this comment as well: "politicians in India still thrive on hostility to Paskistan" . If you are even remotely aware of election promises in India, pakistan policy is a very small part and even that only in areas affected by terrorist attacks. Compare that to all the frequent "foreign hand" comments by your inept politicians and the military.
February 19, 2013 3:44 pm
Ha Ha Ha ! This person seems to be living in Disneyland.
February 20, 2013 6:46 pm
This article deserves to be framed and added to history books - it is the first time a Pakistani writer has captured how Indians look at Pakistani policies and wonder why people don't realize the facts as they are instead of perpetuating hatred.
February 19, 2013 1:52 pm
The history cannot be changed and supports the facts mentioned by the writer but if you look at today's India the middle class is more prejudiced and hostile against Pakistan. Reasons are debatebale but the very fact that politicians in India still thrive on hostility to Paskistan is veru much averse to Pakistani thoughts and beliefs. I believe Indians could be more friendly and forgiving and could extend a solid and visible hand to better the relationships rather than solidifying the hostilities.
February 19, 2013 2:10 pm
None of the muslim leaders and people who went to pakistan didn't even spent a day in jail for Indian indephendence, including your beloved jinnah. He was an oportunist who sided with the British and when India got indephendence because of India's freedom fighters(including muslim leaders and ordinary muslims who stayed and valued India), he wanted to be Prime Minister!!!!!. So stop commenting "we got indephendence", you pakistanis are just beneficiaries of the struggle of real Indian freedom fighters. You muslims in Pakistan didn't fight for freedom, so get of the high horse that your forefathers fought for freedom.!!!!!!
February 19, 2013 2:10 pm
Very correct. Thats why much of the world is scared about us. The treatment we get at Foreign airports is the proof.
February 19, 2013 7:17 pm
The only word I have in my mind is RESPECT for you Mr. Haider. It is not because I as an Indian, loved to read the short comings of Pakistan, but, as a citizen of a nation I so much agree to your thoughts behind penning down such a wonderful and fantastic piece of rationale. I strongly feel that as a national of a nation, it is supremely important to work on our negatives and exercise the positives. I as a neighbor of your nation, wholeheartedly wish of peace, prosperity and most importantly tolerance to prevail in your country. After all, what we mostly loose is innocent lives and morale. GOD BLESS.
February 19, 2013 5:38 pm
Nalanda & Taxila were destroyed by invading barbarians ( Muslims) and most of the Hindu temples were razed down by Muslim rulers during the Mughal rule.
February 19, 2013 4:21 pm
I totally support your view. All muslims should leave India for the country which was carved out for them. That way both countries will stop quibbling amongst themselves and progress. I also believe in what Jinnah said, that Muslims are incapable of living peacefully with others, as can be seen all over the world today.
February 19, 2013 4:16 pm
I do. I am a Pakistani, living in Pakistan. There are many, many Pakistanis who would agree with the author. If you think there aren't any, you really don't know much about the contemporary Pakistani society. The author is a part of Pakistani society, too. He didn't just appear out of nowhere. His views are a reflection of a whole segment of Pakistani society. Maybe not the majority, still very much a part of our country.
February 19, 2013 2:47 pm
oh.. god. i hope you are safe in Pakistan after speaking that much truth..hope you don't have to go through what Arundhati Roy did here in India.
Indian HIndu
February 19, 2013 4:14 pm
Thank you. Please leave India. I will buy you a ticket.
February 19, 2013 4:10 pm
Tremendous insight. Very clever penetrative thought by the author
February 19, 2013 5:36 pm
Sounds brilliant as a sarcastic comment, but , having read some really nutty comments here, can't really say.
Tahira, USA
February 19, 2013 4:08 pm
Ah! how true and on the dot. I wish ALL Pakistanis in particular and muslims in general were as honest, brave and truthful and speak up like Mr Mobarak Haider. In the West, adult muslims know this type of critical analysis and when they ask parents some questions, the parents refuse and hide behind their beliefs as taught by their maulvis in Islam. Those children are therefore beginning to drift away from Islam and becoming atheists. If parents understood their religion properly and owned its misrepresentations at various periods in history including today, the children would remain good muslims and their creativity would belong to us. Unfortunately, the likes of the writer have been branded heretics and even imprisoned or killed at the instigation of the so-called Ulema. Hope people will read these articles with an open and cool mind and try to mend their ways and thinking.
February 21, 2013 12:59 am
soul searching article.Congratulations.
February 20, 2013 1:38 pm
Not a correct corollary.
P N Eswaran
February 20, 2013 12:54 pm
Correction. Guru Govind singhji was not executed by Aurangzeb. He died at Nanded. His father Guru Teg Bahadur was executed by Aurangzeb.
Rubicc V.
February 21, 2013 12:09 am
This authors hate speech is published and he is even free to enjoy his Indian fans but Owaisi was put in prison while speaking as a representative of his people.
Roger Rao
February 20, 2013 12:45 pm
Ali - The absence of a perspective such as yours in day-to-day discussions and in common parlance, is the tragedy of the sub-continent. Sustenance of this one perspective alone can contribute to a big chunk towards peaceful co-existence within the confines of our sub-continental culture of accommodation, and with the help of our predisposition to syncretism. Is it not unfortunate that one would need 'courage' to make such statements? Also, is it not historically logical reasoning that the current sub-continental Muslim population could not have been derived from the invading armies alone - and that there were significant conversions of the local population? Then why is it that we dig in our heels in mythological proportions into comeuppance? What drives Owaisi in Deccan Hyderabad, for example, to thump on his chest about giving him an un-policed block of 15 minutes of time so that Muslim bravery would get adequate time to subjugate the 'Hindu' population? Your reference to the Bhakti movement and Buddhism is welcomed - not so much because that it is an order that I might subscribe to - but because you make a statement of acknowledgement and accommodation consonant with our common heritage. In matters of spiritual pursuit, endogenic vision merely tends to blind one of the beauty beyond (cuts both ways). Why indeed should statements of in-your-face facts such as those you have uttered above moist my eyes - which it did? Thanks, Ali. Roger
February 19, 2013 4:00 pm
GDP of Pakistan is less than GDP of Maharashtra the state where dozens of Artists from Pakistan come to earn a living .regional nuisance is a better way of describing Pakistan
February 21, 2013 12:38 am
This author can whitewash whatever he wants but that does not change the facts of life, the dark truth about India. India has taken no action towards peace. All of India's actions predicate war. I am not pulling things out of the air like the author. We professionally study, analyse, and debate what India does. The conclusion is clear: India is preparing for preemptive Total War.
February 19, 2013 5:28 pm
Indians cn be forgiving provided pakistanis are apologetic
February 20, 2013 12:50 pm
Where did you got that? In your madrasah text book, I am sure.
February 20, 2013 11:29 am
Agreed 100%
February 19, 2013 3:44 pm
" It truly is a wonder how our numbers have grown". The secret is uncontrollable birth rate .
February 19, 2013 2:16 pm
I agree with AHA. Not all Pakistanis are blood thirsty animals, as some people might think.
February 19, 2013 1:49 pm
Pakistan does not want them. A lot of Muslims chose to stay in India. They do not want Biharis who fought beside Pak army in Bangladesh.
anonymous indian
February 19, 2013 5:17 pm
Sure...what prevents you from going??
February 19, 2013 1:25 pm
Simply Incredible thought that understood by most but suppressed down deeply in heart to share. We admire your wisdom; Please keep writing ahead & kindly include the focus on some solutions as well.
February 19, 2013 2:26 pm
That there are a lot of Pakistani intellectuals,is not known in India.The reason still prevails.
February 19, 2013 3:41 pm
"Partition was a great idea but its uncompleted Partition that is causing the problem. Muslims can never be Indians once Partition happened. Qaid-e- Azam clearl stated Hindus and Muslims are two different nations." Very True.Undeniable fact.
G. Vin
February 19, 2013 1:22 pm
your ancestors WERE Hindus, thus your rulers were Hindus. Understand?
February 19, 2013 3:37 pm
Please come to national TV and enlighten our masses.
February 20, 2013 11:39 am
Hats off to this author for his (worth reading article) i hope this article could be read by the people of Pakistan, I can see you as good example of real Pakistani who has a courage to be on his real thought, there is a great potential in people of Pakistan but the only threat is their own politicians who don't want to stand on their feet but to depend on other country, give chance to your own people don't be depended this is the only way for Rise of Pakistan. i can only wish best of luck to the brothers of pakistan
February 20, 2013 11:38 am
As per the reserach study done by Jamia milia university, Delhi by muslim research scholars only,........... 99% of muslims living in Indian sub-continent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh) region have hindu ancestry. Many of them still follows some of their ancestor's traditions (although not openly). Rest 1% who are of Arabian, Iranian, afgani or turkish ancestry......... are mostly former nababs, jamindars or religious leaders and these 1% still controls more than 80% of total indian muslim wealth. During mughal period, only these 1% muslims of foreign origin were trusted for high positions. Rest of the 99% muslims of hindu origin were always kept as slaves and still are slaves.
February 19, 2013 5:48 pm
With one difference that Hindus know that most Muslims are not descendants of Mughal rulers or invaders, but simply converts at various points of time. Even Jinnah's father was born a Hindu. Similarly, most Hindus are not descendants of Hindu rulers before them. Although this article does show its understanding of Hindu psyche, it also perpetuates the age old self congratulatory Muslim myth that Muslims in the subcontinent today ruled India. They did not.
February 20, 2013 5:46 pm
Great article indeed. One sad truth which is exposed here is also the fact that India has lacked the spine and ambition to be a great nation. While is it largely peaceful, it also had poor foreign policy and international relations. It has only survived the 1000 years of foreign rule because of sheer luck. The fact that India did not conquer Sri Lanka,Bhutan, Bangladesh and Pakistan (possible in the pre nuclear world) also speaks of the non ambitious attitude of the wider Indian society. Indians are too busy in making a living (includes all religions hindus,muslims,skihs,christians,budhists,jews,jains etc) No one has time to quarrel over religion. This is also not by design but by luck.
New Delhi
February 19, 2013 2:38 pm
with regarding this article as expect good one like first part. but I have gut feeling that Now new generation in pakistan is also start to realizing development and piece full environment is need of time. so the day is not far when apart from some small group, all other common pakistani is good for india and as well as world as whole.
February 19, 2013 2:38 pm
You are right that for most of the muslim's ancestors were hindu but it is not necessary that all of your ancestors chose Islam by themselves. It is a fact that Sikhism came into existence because of forced conversion and injustice against hindus. Some hindu's took arms and followed Sikh Guru's.they were called Sikh. Guru Shri govind singh ji was executed by Aurangzeb for his opposition of forced conversion of Hindus and injustice against them. You consider yourself muslim today no harm in that but saying that your ancestor chose Islam then most of them not they were forced.
February 19, 2013 2:41 pm
Islam and Hinduism are religions and not ethnic identities.Sometimes Hindus become Muslims and sometimes Muslims become Christians and so it is meaningless to talk of Hindus,Muslims,Sikhs,Jews and Christians as if they are different species. Indeed many of the Muslims of the subcontinent were previously professing a different religion. We can talk of an intolerant and communal India and a tolerant and secular Pakistan but there is no such thing as an eternally Hindu India and an eternally Muslim Pakistan destined to fight each other eternally like the black and white pieces on a chessboard . The great poet Mir said that "Fate like an inexperienced chess player likes to kill the pawns indiscriminately." I hope we are spared this fate.
February 19, 2013 5:12 pm
Did you ever visited India?
Sensible Head
February 19, 2013 5:13 pm
Then why don't you move to Pakistan sir. Nobody in India is stopping you. Your are pretending that as if somebody is stopping you from leaving this (wretched country ? ). If you can really make Pakistan prosper, the Pakistani people will readily welcome you. Just leave India not for good cause.
February 19, 2013 3:22 pm
So when jinnah asked gandhi to live together, what was gandhi's reply?
Shaikh Iqbal
February 19, 2013 2:52 pm
the article is thoroughly analytical and scientific. Such blogs are rare commodity nowadays requiring courage,conviction in humanity to write with difficulty even in so called free world. Commendable.
February 21, 2013 12:22 am
..Smell of fiction? It stinks to high heaven.
February 19, 2013 5:05 pm
Where did you get that from??
February 19, 2013 5:04 pm
I think you are being sarcastic! I like that approach.
John Vicks
February 19, 2013 4:55 pm
Bygones are Bygones. That was during reconstruction phase in 1940s. After this dileanation of boundaries, there is not longer any conflict. So stop harping on past and move on with life.
February 19, 2013 2:02 pm
Before Hindus,monkeys lived there so they should be allowed to take over India. No need for all Muslims to leave India but form another country called mughalistan as all of north India and let that be another country. Let Hyderabad become independent as it was before Indian brutal army marched in and indian oxcupied, kashmir join pakistan then partition will be complete.
February 19, 2013 4:50 pm
it was not upon the ruler of some state who was to decide which country they wanted to join it was decided that which part of India will be part of Pakistan and which part will be India. the ruler of these state knew that in a democratic India they will be just like other Indian not ruler of state. You can not have country in the middle of another country.
February 20, 2013 10:59 pm
Dawn needs to explore these areas to appear balanced and astute.
February 19, 2013 5:53 pm
To be honest i never expected a pakistani writer to be so incisive and objective in his analysis.Congratulations to Dawn and Mr Haider for getting it absolutely right.Being an Indian i can reaffirm that his efforts to put forward the Indian point of view have hit the bull's eye
February 20, 2013 10:56 pm
Historical encyclopedias. It is a well established fact of history. Muhammad bin Qasim put an end to Hindu atrocities on other people and religions, specially the slaughter of Buddhists and Jains and the demolitation of their Holy places. Babari Mosque and Golden Temple type attacks are standard in Hindu Religion commands as recorded in their scripture and history.
February 19, 2013 4:42 pm
Sir, you are one delusional character.
February 20, 2013 10:42 pm
You believe incorrectly...rather he had said that he had come to the conslusion that Hindus will not let Muslims live in peace and free, so partition has the only way forMuslims.
February 20, 2013 10:38 pm
Is that the best argument you got?
Mohan Menon
February 19, 2013 3:55 pm
The article is meant for folks like you.Little wonder that the author's effort to reason with you hasn't succeded yet,still it is the duty of any sane pakistani to show the reality glaring at pakistan and how much it is detached from the world and reality.
February 19, 2013 4:34 pm
What a brilliant peace of writing from Mr. Haider. One point Mr. Haider need to understand is that the most of the Muslims of the sub-continent are converted and they are not foreigners like Britishers who could leave India. Greater tragedy is that despite being the son of the soil, the Muslims of the sub-continent see the Arabian Desert as their mother land.
February 20, 2013 10:37 pm
Hindus used to kill Buddhists and pull down their temples. Muslims came and put a stop to it. Many buddhists became Muslims as a result of justice and equity given them.
February 20, 2013 10:34 pm
Absolute nonsense. Muslims built libraries.
February 20, 2013 10:32 pm
Your perhaps...
February 20, 2013 10:29 pm
2MQ: They can choose the nation which best serves their desires, if they do not like living in India! I have never heard or read about India preventing anyone from leaving!
February 19, 2013 1:57 pm
Extremely lopsided article which has distorted facts. I have just one point to make which sums up the deceit of India. Junagarh and manawao the ruler wanted to Jin Pakistan, the Indian moved its forces and forced an unsupervised plebiscite, declared, it in favour of India while for Kashmir they occupied it and refused to have a plebiscite. In Hyderabad, it attacked and occupied its state. Can't have double standards land injustise brings more action. India does not want to live in peace and it cannot fathom the fact that Pakistan is a regional power on par with India and this bothers India too much.
Lakhkar Khan
February 19, 2013 3:51 pm
Very thought provoking article. However, you may want to revise the term "ulema on this side". To call these individuals "ulema" is giving bad name to real ulema. Any individual never done anything productive for Islam or for Pakistan should not be labeled that. Jahileen is the right term I would go with.
February 20, 2013 10:26 pm
Yes, KKRoberts: Why not?
Rashid Sultan
February 19, 2013 11:03 am
Nothing is black or white. Why should following an imported faith make us feel foreign to the lands in which we live? We share a lot more in common with India than we are prepared to believe for some strange reason of political manouvering. Unfortunately, and maybe I'll be forgiven by the readers for saying this, the monouvering and hype started with Quaid who portraits are to be seen everywhere without ever acknowledging his short sightedness and desire for ultimate glory. His background and ethnicity stems from Hindu and what was India regardless of whether we accept it or deny it.
February 19, 2013 3:48 pm
Really, you mean there are people with some brains like you in this country? Wish there were some more .... excellent point about what have we created? Thanks and hope you remain alive and well to continue to examine our ways.
February 19, 2013 11:06 am
Very brave thoughts sir. But keep some good security around, not even 1% of Pakistani approve your thoughts.
February 19, 2013 2:10 pm
Thank you Ali.. trust me a normal South Indian like myself do not hate Muslims . I only expect them to let us be on our own and not try to convert and seek destruction of Bharat - Longest continuing civilization.
February 19, 2013 11:09 am
Truer words were never spoken. It takes strength of heart and soul to say such things.. If this kind of people exist in Pakistan, then may Pakistan flourish, its citizens prosper and live happily for ever. Pakistan Paindabad.
February 19, 2013 1:48 pm
The courage of your conviction and the sense of honesty speaks eloquently in your article. Three cheers to you for stating the truth in so many words, not many writers dare to do that. Hope this will open the eyes of all those Pakistanis who have been brought up on the diet of hate and fed with conspiracy theories against Hindus. Three cheers to Dawn for publishing an honest article.
February 19, 2013 11:13 am
one of the most brilliant articles i came across from a sensible pakistan ...! hats off for opening the eyes of ignorant pakistanis who unfortunately are veiled with a cataract of fundamentalism !
February 19, 2013 11:14 am
There was nothing glorious in mughals history from our perspective.......
February 19, 2013 11:15 am
Someone finally making sense....but i know your constructive criticism will be shot down. People in your country have just closed their eyes to everything. they talk about history but do not go beyond 1000 years. When their ancestros were actually hindus forcefully converted to Islam. their forefathers were threatened into doing it. Still many kashmiris trace their ancestory to being bhramins. But now these converts are determined to take the baton of charge and forcefully convert the rest of the world starting with india. So blind is their faith that they view everyone else as a non believer. Exactly who gave them the right to say it i have no idea. I respect Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Jainish, etc. But unfortunately only two religions have their scriptures OPEN to a veriety of interpretation.... you can interpret Jihad as a holy war against infedels by killing them or a Jihad as a holy war to liberate one from their grave ( body ) to acheieve purity ( god/self realisation) . Only two religions in the world have always tried to conquor and convert the defeated by force. I dont need to take the name of the two religoins we all know. But back to basic. In this era, no one can be forcefully converted or defeated the least. This era is of development and acheiving greater success in science and technology. The country that has the best scientific gains will be a leader and not the country with most converts or most numbers in one particular religion. The day all these religious countries realise this , we will have a better peaceful environment. Hope sense prevails.
February 19, 2013 11:18 am
Simply speechless after reading the article.
February 19, 2013 11:19 am
Good article Sir. Trust your passport is ready. Sunil
February 19, 2013 1:47 pm
I liked your Macro analysis of history. I could not have stated better.
February 19, 2013 1:46 pm
yeah what can we do...hindus are peaceful people...
February 19, 2013 1:46 pm
As incisive as the part 1. Can't wait for the next part.
Shridhar Subrahmanyam
February 19, 2013 11:25 am
Mr. Haidar, a very balanced and sensible analysis of the situation in the sub-continent. The proportion of Indians who still rant about 'Akhand Bharat' is minuscule. We are quite content with the nation as it is with the borders that we have inherited after the Partition of British India. At the same time, we do not want any further division of the country or the borders being redrawn. In moving away from a failed Socialist experiment, we have gained a measure of economic prosperity and rising incomes. Large parts of the country have grown rapidly with increasing incomes and reduction in abject poverty. Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Gujarat, Punjab and Western Maharashtra are growing rapidly and a million cars are being made and sold in India every year. We need peace and better governance to continue on this growth trajectory and bring prosperity to the laggards like Bihar, UP, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa and many other smaller states. We do not want war or conflicts with anyone. At the same time, we have no choice but to counter attempts to create social conflict and tear apart our secular fabric which has served us so well in the last 65 years,
February 19, 2013 11:25 am
Much appreciate the author's objective views however he too falls into the trap of defining Muslims as the 'other', as 'foreigners' in a Hindu land. Let's be clear - the vast majority of the sub-continent's Muslims are 'sons of the soil' and not descendants of Turkish, Persian or Afghan ancestors/conquerors. It is this misguided story/narrative and I use the word story deliberately , that is responsible for the Partition and 2 Nation Theory that the author himself seems to be quite ambivalent on. Why doesn't Pakistan accept that the 'Syeds' are only a drop in the ocean of the 500 million Muslims of the Sub-Continent????
secular no more
February 19, 2013 11:29 am
Clear as a mirror...people should find some courage to look at it.
February 19, 2013 11:30 am
Dear Mr. Mubarak Haider, Will you find even a single soul in Pakistan who will endorse your views ? Hate virus has gone deep into Pakistani psyche. Army has been in the forefront of this hate campaign. Any change in the situation can come only if the Army formulates a pro- India approach. Politicians are still in awe of army.
February 19, 2013 11:30 am
Brutally honest....Pakistanis are going to blast you with their hostile comments
indian muslim
February 19, 2013 1:43 pm
where did you get that exactly from? what about the Brahminical revival movement in india during the 800-900 AD when all the progress made by buddhist & jain civilizations their art,culture everything was wiped away with brute force.Thousands of jains & buddhists were killed,raped & maimed.As for these x'tian imperialists the less said the cannot forget the bengal famine & the scores of othern atrocities.
February 19, 2013 11:31 am
hope so more pakistani will understand the truth and facts
February 19, 2013 11:34 am
Some true facts expressed very very boldly. This is the first time I am reading something so frankly on this subject, facts that all we Indians know and discuss, by a Pakistani writer. Is it going to go down well with moderate thinking Pakistanis? Clearly it is going to initiate an explosive debate and I for one, am all ears, watching out for the reactions!
Lisa W.
February 20, 2013 10:19 pm
We too would like for India not to provoke as it is doing in Pakistan today and did in 1970-1971. And it is an expansionist country, and all its neighbours have been troubled and are alarmed at its actions.
February 19, 2013 11:37 am
Excellent article, It takes guts to write the truth. Appreciate the writer for knowledge and honesty.
February 19, 2013 11:38 am
Brilliant article ! Such serious soul searching is the need of the day
C Sakthivel
February 19, 2013 11:38 am
One of the fantastic article read in the recent past. " What did we create and build" is really touching and should be asked by every fundamentalist of Pakistan.
Nabarun Dey
February 19, 2013 11:38 am
...'Hindus have lived in this land for more than 4000 years with a deep sense of belonging....our Muslim ancestors came 1000 years ago and did not develop a sense of belonging. They did not assimilate or integrate with the people they ruled...' splendid indeed ! No one can deny the fact that once upon a time Afghanistan to Myanmar one akhand Bharatbarsa existed with Hindutva being the way of life, core of civilisation. With the blood remaining the same, people opting for different routes to reach God's home, brought about monumental changes in both History & Geography of this Pak land.
February 19, 2013 11:45 am
we destroyed the Soviet Union, we have pushed America to disaster, we shall destroy India.. This mindset hardly ever asks: what did we create or build? hats off to you sirjee
February 19, 2013 11:49 am
Another masterpiece. The only thing that we feel proud of is our ability to destroy. All we possess is a nuisance value. That is what we are really worth.
Kenneth Latinog
February 19, 2013 9:59 pm
Very well said.The author called a spade a spade. Please google "Akbaruddin owaisi hate speech" which was made recently. Everything the author says matches.
February 20, 2013 10:08 pm
@sukhbir: I find the Sikh ulema very strong ion Canada, USA, and UK. Sikh men in their glorious untended beards, and turbans with kirpans on the hip never make eye contact with other Indians or anybody not Sikh and never smile. They are unfriendly, even as business people.
February 19, 2013 1:29 pm
I greatly appreciate the author for being so frank and presenting the facts of history. Let Pakistan think of developing itself and stop gloating over and hating the country it has severed itself from. As the author has rightly said, though India has helped Bangladesh get its liberation, it never thought of annexing it. Its hand are full looking after itself, instead of trying to keep a population under subjugation. If it had wanted to annex Pakistan it could have done so during an earlier war. These fears or assumptions are planted in the minds of people by the Pak military to emphasize its importance and 'indispensability'.
February 20, 2013 9:09 pm
Zak congrats. Excellent punishing points. You have stated them rather well. All the folks from the border are focusing on you. It is a sign of your effective writing.
February 19, 2013 1:25 pm
Indians especially non-Muslim community have always learned to exist with other faiths . Some finest examples were King Akbar and King Tipusultan . But when invaders like Aurengeb imposed Jijiya tax on vast majority of people and beheaded Sikh leaders , How can we love them ? In stead of imposing tax on Muslims , our gov is giving subsidy for Hazz travel , isn't it a big slap on those invaders?Need to show them the mirror....
S L Tickoo
February 19, 2013 12:06 pm
I appreciate the absolute objectivity with which the piece has been penned by Mobarak and wonder why with such intellectuals in Pakistan the opinions, of the govt & the people who matter, does not change for the good of their country and the region.We have already invested lot of our resources & energies in pursuance of our mindless designs.Can someone make a begining now?
Zalim Singh
February 19, 2013 12:06 pm
Bravo. You have really understood the Hindu psyche.
February 19, 2013 12:07 pm
Excellent Analogy. It is refreshing to see a differently thinking Pakistani. We need similar individuals both at India and Pakistan to move towards peaceful coexistence.
February 19, 2013 12:09 pm
"Hindus have lived in this land for more than 4000 years with a deep sense of belonging. On the contrary, our Muslim ancestors came 1000 years ago and did not develop a sense of belonging. They did not assimilate or integrate with the people they ruled, keeping their identity as foreigners, with loyalty to the holy lands of Arabia. The British also ruled as foreigners but they did not demand a part of India like we did; they agreed to leave India while we did not, although we declared that we were not Indians. Our self-righteousness so limits our sense of justice that what we practice with great pomp and show, seems hateful to us if others desire it." Mobarak Saab, you have rightly picked the crux of the problem. Hindus/Indians have never any problem with anyone who says that this country is his/her also. the only thing they demand is his/her loyalty towards India even if they are not having same faith as majority hindus. See the example of persians/ iranians. They have come about 8th- 10 th century from Iran/ Persia. despite knowing their roots, despite their different religion, they accepted India as their country. Nobody has even an iota of doubt about their loyalty towards india. FM Sam Manekshaw, a Parsi, was General of Indian Armed forces and first general to be field Marshal. Despite hindu majority, no hindu before him could get that award and nobody opposed it. The whole India is proud of Him irrespective of caste/ creed/ religion etc. Because of nonsense Two nation theory, India can trust parsis who didnot have indian roots but not muslims who have indian roots. What pakistan today is seeing is just the implication of Destructive Two nation theory. Instead of Hindu and muslims, earlier it was replaced by bengalis and west pakistani, then ahmadia and muslims, then christians and muslims, and now shai and sunni. Just because, you don't intermarry, have different language, have different culture etc., you should not stay together as nation- thats the moral of two nation theory- rightly opposed by india before independence too and even now. Two nation theory is nothing but in short promotes and hails betrayal towards ones country for religion. that is what exactly happening in pakistan now.
February 19, 2013 12:11 pm
It is so incredible that this"clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand"of Pakistan.
February 19, 2013 12:12 pm
You will be surprised by the number of Pakistanis who seek peace, and who do not their lives be ruined by hate.
February 19, 2013 12:13 pm
i was so thrilling to read your blog. I never though any pakistani can ever write like this .H ad you written this in india you would have got banned. Thanks for saying feeling of us indian so loude and clearly.I am now biggest fan of yours.
February 19, 2013 9:33 pm
Indians and Pakistanis for the most part get allowing really well in the West especially the generation born here. Sometimes it's the new immigrants who bring along their old prejudices along with the newly acquired Green Cards. My advice to them would be to dump all that excess 'baggage' before boarding the one way flight or just stay there and enjoy the animosities. Don't bring all that garbage of hatred along.
February 20, 2013 9:55 pm
Alhamdollia! Absolute truth. Thanks.
Madhavan Ramakrishnan
February 19, 2013 9:50 pm
It is no secret that majority of Hindus are integrated into Islam so heavily that they have the photos or pictures of Fakirs like Sai Baba, Moti Baba and others along with their Gods. They regularly visit Ajmere Shriff and the likes, in times of difficulty. They even today, depend on Lal Kitab to see their problems through. The contribution of Zakir Hussain to Abdul Kalam is never questioned and all their names invoke respect. It only probably benefits the politicians, army and ISI in Pakistan to keep the hatred fire burning to ensure their survival.
February 20, 2013 9:54 pm
Well said Zak. Most of our family was slaughtered in 1947. And are thankful for having grownup in the freedom of Pakistan. Our present difficulties will go away too,good people are working for it. Thank you for standing up for our great country against foreign comments. Don't Pakistanis read Dawn any more? So few of them represented here, or for stand up for you. Th author is biased and historically incorrect too. Bless you.
February 19, 2013 9:21 pm
Dabbawala please talk for yourself and your family and not for all the muslims of India. except for few most of our ancestors were Hindus. Get this fact right. dont spread falsehood. most of you walas are in business and good a fleecing people.
February 20, 2013 9:45 pm
If he does, he might be killed by the beasts of burden of false pride.
February 19, 2013 9:23 pm
Totally agree with you.
Ghori A.
February 20, 2013 9:40 pm
Akhand Bharat is your dream and we have the 'tonic' to wake you up to reality.
February 20, 2013 9:36 pm
How is your hunting going on in the jungle?
February 19, 2013 9:25 pm
A brutally frank, sincere reflection, Sir. I salute you for this bold and objective analysis. I have no illusions of reuniting the divided sub-continent. But, I have a vested interest in people in Pakistan living in peace so that its neighbors can live in peace and prosper. I read several newspaper, each day. Dawn richly deserves our commendation and gratitude for publishing such a valuable piece.
February 19, 2013 9:28 pm
Thank you Mr. Haider for so boldly stating the reasons why Pakistanis are not liked very much. Like it or not - Pakistanis have become a laughing stock amongst educated Indian Muslims.
February 20, 2013 11:06 pm
His underling objective seems to be to undermine Pakistan and Muslim resolve while boosting Bharat. He should have been more subtle, and less obvious. You caught him out on all counts.
February 20, 2013 11:08 pm
Mr. Jinnah had that view till he saw what Ghandi and Nehru were actually planning.
February 20, 2013 9:32 pm
Zak is awake and getting you all out of bed. Time for you to wake up Rajesh and look at the fatsanf truth...if your media will let you.
February 19, 2013 8:57 pm
Wow simply awesome!!
February 19, 2013 9:11 pm
I presume you have also enjoyed the special treatment we Pakistanis get on our international travels. I have been through that experience many times, but I will never be able to overcome that embarrassing feeling.
February 19, 2013 12:19 pm
By the way 'our ancestors' for the most of us were Hindu and Sikh. There are very few in the sub-continent that came from Middle East area, the ones that did integrated long ago. However, for most of us Pakistani people our ancestors are the Hindus. A fact we should make peace with and move on.
February 19, 2013 12:23 pm
When Nizam of Indian Hyderabad was the richest person on earth, That region was one of the poorest in British India( Indian History ).When Muslim conquerors attacked India, they first burned buddhist universitiest.That tells all.
February 19, 2013 1:09 pm
May Almighty preserve you and keep the evil of ulema thinkers away from you. It has taken 65 years for Pakistan to produce one "HONEST THINKER" who has guts to tell the truth. Yes sir, India is the Land of Hindus (as named by Pershians) who are truly an ancient Vedic Civilization. Not all Pakistanis are of Foreign Origin, vast majority are the descendants of converts who over a few decades have tried to look and imitate the Invaders rather than their own forefathers. Yes, not all Hindus are open minded, there is a small minority who propagate Hatred of Islam as vigorously as the Ulema preaches hate and intolerance of Dhimmi Hindus. I wonder if a day will ever come when the two people will give up this "perpetual Hate" and accept that for survival and well being we must live with each other and respect each other and put all the Ulemas both Hindu and Muslim in sealed jars that can never be opened again.
February 20, 2013 9:17 pm
I understand they imprisoned the only Muslim leader Hyderabad had. Denied him free speech and put him in prison for it..
February 19, 2013 12:29 pm
Exactly, I had just written something similar earlier before reading your comments. This is a pure myth that Muslims came form somewhere else. We are from our land and chose Islam (mainly Sufi) as our faith. That does not mean our culture is different or we speak a different language all of a sudden. We have our own version of Islam that is influenced by the Bhakti movement and the Buddhists. It is something that is very South Asian. I am happy and comfortable with myself to be of this soil and proud of it too. I have no need or desire to claim any other fake ancestry. My own ancestors have a long and magnificent legacy. I wish it was taught so in our schools.
February 20, 2013 11:00 pm
You said it. He is your brother indeed.
Mansoor Banatwala
February 19, 2013 2:02 pm
Hi Mahnoor, no we do not have Hindu ancestry. Only very little. That is mainly because Muslims have married within Muslims and most marriages are between first cousins. We are now 500 millions in the subcontinent but our ancestors in Arabia, Persia and Turkey number only a few millions. Only a few thousand Muslim soldiers came to undivided India along with a few immigrants. there were no mass migrations from the Mideast. It truly is a wonder how our numbers have grown. Muslims in India are wealthy and have a lot of skills. Once we move to Pakistan we can make Pakistan a might country. Once we move there will be almost 350 million Pakistani Muslims and that will make it one of the mightiest economies.
Mahnoor Baloch
February 19, 2013 12:35 pm
The author keeps repeating " our Muslim ancstors". Were not Hindus our ancestors also?
Vasu P
February 19, 2013 12:37 pm
I am honored to know you Sir Mobarak Haider, through your brilliant articles. Though your main subject is Pakistan, there are some very valuable lessons for India and I dare say, the world also. Your intellect illuminates across boundaries. We hope to continue learning and benefiting from the same. Thank you.
February 19, 2013 12:38 pm
This is a very intellectual study of how muslims have behaved generally and continue to behave with disastrous consequences for themselves.
February 19, 2013 12:41 pm
Congratulations to to possess the courage to publish this article.
February 19, 2013 12:46 pm
All the articles of this writer are rational. But which way it is possible for Pakistan a peaceful co-existence with Its neighburs and with Its own people? What kind of govarnment and laws will make Pakistan prosperous?
February 19, 2013 12:46 pm
A good thought provoking article.Apparently your muslim psychic is still under the euphoria of the grandeur of the musim raj not only in India but parts of Europe.Unfortunately for them times have changed. While the muslims were in their dream world, the rest of the world progressed in terms of knowledge in education,medicine, industry and economic power.To day they rule the world.You muslims [ forgive my saying so] are seen as nothing but trouble creators in the name of your religion not only in the world but even among your selves.In Pakistan the combined factor regarding your army, the mullahs and the politicians is the Kashmir issue.It is like a bubble enveloping them.That you have a problem in Baluchistan is below your radar even though hundreds of it's residents get killed with impunity by your own muslims.Kashmir is your binding issue.Remove that Kashmir issue and what have these people got?Indians do not go killing and blowing up the Kashmir muslims.Somebody has to prick this bubble to bring these people to face reality.Just like Pakistan will not give up it's "control" on azad kashmir, neither will India in it's area.Stop dreaming of your past glories and face the future Pakistani muslims. The world is not going to wait for you.
February 19, 2013 12:49 pm
You say our " ancestors" ruled india? Do you really feel they were your ancestors. sorry sir, Humayun, they were "us", and part and parcel of this subcontinent. Your culture, ethics and socvial values are not arabic, but of this land. It is simply a different form of "god worship" otherwise you are same as rest of the people of this great culture, had the "dirtty politics" had not parted us. I liked your article, but this sublimal feeling of yours is coming in the way to accept you as true intellect.
February 19, 2013 12:51 pm
If all of us can keep our prejudices aside while analyzing our national/regional problems then win win solutions for every one would emerge. Let nationality,religion, race,languages and gender not be allowed to divide the humans any more.
February 19, 2013 12:51 pm
Mr. Haider, I appreciate the thoughtfulness and empathy in your blog/article. It is that empathy and thoughtfulness that will slowly but surely bring many opposite sides closer to rapproachment. To be honest, it is truly rare to see that expressed so eloquently in the pages of a major pakistani newspaper. Each side has their share of bigots and jingoists to deal with. It is heartening to see people who can empathize on both sides. These are the people who build instead of destroying. Keep up the good work, it is a tough job.
February 20, 2013 9:05 pm
When you have killed off the other or suppressed it compeletely than they live in peace.
February 20, 2013 9:03 pm
The author is a Hindu and rewrites history from that bias.
February 20, 2013 3:06 am
Excellent article, Sir. We all love to live a pseudo-patriotic life but few dare to be honest and have courage to be neutral and try to think logically and put it into paper.
Pinaki Rath
February 20, 2013 3:12 am
Am really impressed with the depth of thought expressed. Hopefully, this silent majority will harness the efforts so that Pakistan and India can move away from the culture of suspicion and hatred. Lot needs to be done in the sphere of education, poverty alleviation and governance so that we can move away from mindless defence spending.
February 20, 2013 9:00 pm
There is a long list of Indian aggression and atrocities in the region.
Subodh Davessar
February 20, 2013 3:24 am
Great article. Very well written, citing honestly and courageously all facts. Great for Dawn to publish it. God bless you.
February 20, 2013 3:35 am
Mr Muhammad Ali Jinnah was a dignified noble gentleman, not a ragamuffin wannabe seeking prominence by resorting to the demagoguery of political imprisonment. Mr. Jinnah had the education, wisdom, foresight, and steel nerves to achieve his objective through logic, intellect, dialogue, endurance, persistance and perseverance...rather than use the easy 'Going to Jail' political gimmick so prominent at the time, resorted to by other lesser folk, to attract attention to his cause. He won us a refuge, shelter, home, and homeland against overwhelming odds...we are so very proud of our Wise Warrior Father, Founder, His Excellency: The Quad e Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Blessed be he...
February 20, 2013 3:35 am
champion you have earned my respect
February 20, 2013 3:40 am
Spoken with so little knowledge of world events and facts on the ground.
February 20, 2013 3:48 am
Do you think this is by chance? Dawn seeks out out such writers and articles. Guidelines are give, even instructions...facts and truth is turned on its head. There is much going on behind the words and lines you see here, more than you can imagine. Less said the better.
February 20, 2013 3:49 am
Sir...? Give me a break!
February 20, 2013 3:51 am
Perhaps yours. Not mine. Thank God. Lolz..!
February 20, 2013 3:53 am
How far you want to go back? Just to Pagans...or Apes? Amoebas?
February 20, 2013 3:54 am
Unlike Brits, 5 to 6 hundred million Muslims living in Bangladesh, India, and Pakistan do not have their forefathers from outside the region. Muslms in the regions are not Pakistanis, Bangladeshis & Indians of Arab, Persian, or central asia orgin, they are are Muslims from Indian (most likely Hindu) origin. So the question of them leaving the country like Brits did, does not arise. Forefathers accepted Islam for most of them. Forefathers of these 500 milllion did not arrive from Saud Arabia. Britis also had engaged in continual supprsession of varous uprsiings in India. This article is based on a typical mind set of psuedo intellectuals, that pleases defeated mentality of some Pakistanis, and offcourse many of the Indians. It speaks half the truth, another name for not speaking the whole truth is propaganda.
Ghulam Ishaq
February 20, 2013 3:55 am
I am sure Pakistan definitely has good future with people like you who recognize that problems exist and work towards solution, rather than those who live entirely in denial while the problems go on perpetuating.
Shanti Baba
February 20, 2013 8:55 pm
You seems to have underestimated the power of Pakistani Intellectuals.
T Celtic
February 20, 2013 3:56 am
Not intellectual at all, but a propaganda pamphlet to soften the to speak.
Dr. Vimla
February 20, 2013 3:58 am
Muslims must not identify themselves with invaders. Most Muslims in our region are converts from Hindus. Indian subcontinent since ancient period have produced most warlike people and Puru defeated Alexander.
February 20, 2013 4:08 am
It's a very good article ,worth reading should be published in indian journal in india also.the author should be commended.he shows a sense of reality than imagination. nk das new delhi india
February 20, 2013 4:12 am
Gr8 ! article. Very thought provoking and balanced view.
February 20, 2013 4:22 am
"They did not assimilate or integrate with the people they ruled, keeping their identity as foreigners" Lions don't integrate with hyenas.
February 21, 2013 6:27 am
Believe me there was a lot of good things that happened during the Mughal era..for example did you know that, a person called Dara Shikoh,who was the eldest son of Shah Jahan and the rightful successor, was the first person to translate the Upanishads into Persian?There are many such examples of great Muslim scholars learning about Indian culture and languages and translating them to their language. And how can you forget the glorious reign of Akbar which was marked most significantly by tolerance to other religions?..I,for one as an Indian,donot consider the Muslim rule of 700 years not as 'outsider' rule but instead very much a part of the glorious Indian civilization
February 20, 2013 4:37 am
you have analysed your country,s psyche and weaknesses nicely. I would not comment if you are right or wrong. the very fact that you are open to critical assessment, is a virtue. wish there are more like you
February 20, 2013 4:44 am
Although what you say has lot of weight Chawla Saheb, there are moderate Pakistanis, who would want peace but their crime is that they are silent. Probably, their number is small so they dare not.
Shanti Baba
February 20, 2013 8:44 pm
Ashok, based on my perception all Indians hate Pakistanis. I know, this is not true at all. I am a Pakistani and I am proud to be Harappan. If we have the same culture so why you think that you are more open minded than Pakistanis. Please stop painting everyone with the same brush.
February 20, 2013 5:09 am
If it would have come from the previous goverments would have been a landmark confession. May be all those past politicians and generals who lied to pakistani public should be tried. Congratulations to the author.
February 20, 2013 5:28 am
Dear Mubarak Haider, I am truly amazed at this brutally honest self reflection and analysis. I hope it is taken in the right spirit by thinking Pakistanis and acts as the long awaited catalyst to bring about the change your society so badly needs. I am not trying to talk down to the people of Pakistan at all ( we have our own set of issues) but surely there must be a time when you have to sit back and decide enough is enough , its time to move on. Hope springs eternal after all.
February 20, 2013 5:29 am
This is for the first time I am posting a comment on Dawn because I can not simply read this blatant lie . There was no brahmanical revival movement as stated by Mr Indian Muslim . The famous buddhist university Nalanda rose to its prominence during Gupta age and which was destroyed by Mohammed karrani . There is not a single evidence to prove this propagandist narrative that buddhist were prosecuted , SIddhartha gautam was himself born in a Hindu royal family . I can go on to write that how many dynasties patronized and practiced both beliefs . and buddhism vanished from gangetic plains because patronage shifted in the favor of brahmans . Mr Indian Muslim , you are writing this just to justify and hide the atrocities on native population . but , you know what, this world is way more smarter than you think....
February 20, 2013 5:30 am
Awwww :) so sweet hehe
February 20, 2013 5:30 am
What an article! Long live intellectuals like him, Irfan Hussain, NFP and many more Dawn columnists. Let this creed fast outnumber the rest of highly emotional Pakistanis.
February 20, 2013 5:35 am
The words 'Holy War" and "Infidil" are NOT in the Qura'n. And "Jihad"means personal struggle against the ego. The are Christian inventions and redefinitions. What is your reference.
February 20, 2013 5:36 am
Mr. Haider Bravo. This is an excellent piece of article from a Pakistani I simply do not believe it. Though by birth I am an Indian and Hindu etc. (whatever your people name us) but as a world citizen I appreciate the degree of your intelligence, understanding of the history, diplomacy and analytical mind. I do not know, whether this has already been published in Urdu in Pakistan or not. If not, please publish it in Urdu in Pakistan. Please write a similar article on India. If sometimes you come to India I will hug you. You are a savior. Hats off to you
February 20, 2013 5:37 am
Wow, one would never have imagined such views from a resident of Pakistan. But then, it will be easy for all others to name him a traitor, an Indian stooge and completely negate this kind of viewpoint.
Mr. India
February 20, 2013 11:10 am
Nope. You are.
Ganesh (India)
February 20, 2013 11:12 am
Zak, You are looking at history just after independence, where as author here analyses history of at least 1000 years back ( At times he goes even 5000 years back). So suggest you to look it at that way and then start analysing further. You may get more logical/rational answers..
February 20, 2013 5:42 am
Very well replied. Thanks for showing us all the exact nature of what Mobarak Haider termed ultra-patriotic, ultra-fanatic people with "pride of faith and ever deeper contempt for reason and history".
February 20, 2013 5:43 am
India's Islamic history did not start on 1947. Please google the facts and you would come to know.
February 20, 2013 5:45 am
Its time for you to part from your dream.
February 20, 2013 7:10 pm
Dear Sir, to counter your claims many will always say that muslim ruler would have converted whole of India to islam had they wanted to, but its not true as the rulers were self indulgent and came to rule only maintaining their root in foreign lands. The truth shall prevail.
February 20, 2013 5:48 am
Such an impartial view with so much integrity...This single article had changed my view for pakistanis...Till the poeple like you are with we indians and pakistanis , we feel proud and safe that humanity is still alive with people of your thoughts are here in india and pakistan as well...Hats off to you with all my regards...One example of destroying the things and feeling proud is the unique argument in itself..... Appreciate your undoubted integrity
February 20, 2013 5:55 am
Each and every religin had golden period and pitfalls thereafter...hindu or islam no exception. fortunately or unfortunately , when islam was on peak the hindu religion was on downfall...but still hindu religion could survive due to deep rooted history and tested belief of 5000 years. Islam the religion of peace could make more progress in Pakistan because of its close proximity to arab world...Your reasons of impartiality, peacefulness , saints etc had thousand counter argument of barbarism from killing lakhs of native hindus and demolition somnath and conquer of bounty of hindu worship places.....there are very few who admits these flaws whole heartidly
February 20, 2013 5:58 am
Who deeply know the buddhism they know it very well as refined two religion in context
February 20, 2013 6:01 am
And where do you suggest the Muslims from Kerala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu go? The Maldives?
February 20, 2013 6:11 am
Sir..once again i am so inspired by this realistic dissection of our mindsets mainly designed by the Ulemas and rulers who didnot establish a sense of belonging with their subjects. Your pieces of writing are part of a mirror in which we see the real face of our society. Thankyou once again for reshaping our opinions, helping us understand our past mistakes and to realize and design what our future approach should be. From a Fan Sehrish-Islamabad
February 20, 2013 6:20 am
This really is the unvarnished truth. Articles like these cannot be refuted and are a real contribution to peace and fraternity
February 20, 2013 6:20 am
@ Mobarak Haider : Excellent,great work..congrats..........Indian muslim
February 20, 2013 7:07 pm
It is people like you who cannot be trusted by anyone. You are living in one country and supporting another country. Is not it treacherous. It is people like you who are responsible for any opposition to Muslims however small the number may be.
February 20, 2013 6:21 am
Excellent follow up to your earlier articles. India has no desire to conquer or subjugate any country, not even Bhutan a country without an Army. India has never been a conquering nation but very much a trading nation. People of all faiths are part of India and valued for all their contributions. However India want all its citizens to be loyal to the country above all else, including any man made religion.
February 20, 2013 6:22 am
Do you realize that you spend your life in such trivial pursuit of some partition that wont even directly effect your life. How will your life become better if India was partitioned? Will you become a better person? Why dont you look at avenues to grow personally, and do well in life to provide for your family, rather than talk about some topic that now only people who have nothing else to do care about?
February 20, 2013 6:34 am
Nice dream Zak.... time to wake up
February 20, 2013 6:40 am
hahahahahaha U r one amazing thinker Mr. Zak...
February 20, 2013 6:41 am
Yeah. Hmm, clearly Indian middle class has nothing against Pakistani civilians - it is just the short sighted, suicidal foreign policies of the people who really rule that has repeatedly proved destructive to all of us in our sub-continent. Protesting in diplomatic channels for the human rights of people is one thing, but supporting militancy, terrorism, ineffective courts, religious fanaticism, untruthful history, secessionist elements all for a misguided strategic depth is quite another. Just for instance, Indian students do not study that the entire independence struggle was based on faith or that marauding looters were actually heroes who invaded lands in order to free, subjugated masses or about the moral and ethical superiority of one faith over another. This actually spawns a generation full of hatred for the "other/s" with heroes like Zaid Hamid or Hamid Gul.
February 20, 2013 6:42 am
You have hit the bull's eye....
February 20, 2013 6:43 am
Superbly written articles. I am very impressed by the analysis. The only thing that misses out is most of the Pakistani Muslims were Hindus themselves. So assuming that they have some sort of ancestry in Arabia is not doing us any good. We are bound by culture. To give you an example - a Christian or Muslim from India is far more comfortable with an Indian Hindu than say an Roman Christian or an Arabian Muslim respectively. Culture is a stronger bond. The problem lies where the ulemas are trying to change culture of people on basis of religion. Another point is the Mughals did add flavour to India in terms of arts and music. Some of the rulers like Akbar were actually tolerant and did understand that using force to convert was not the answer. Hindus are generally moderates bordering to atheism (compared to other religions) so they were difficult to convert. That is the reason they could not be converted or will never be converted as a whole. If everyone dumps religion and just adopts philosophy of the religions there will be no need to convert. We can pick the best from every religion and become better human beings.
February 20, 2013 6:44 am
Stop being so condescending. This is from your fellow countryman.
February 20, 2013 6:51 am
Mashallah Lakhkar Khan. It is very tragic that ordinary Indians do not understand this aspect of their normal Pakistani brethren, but this can only be experienced with mutual interaction between Indians and Pakistanis. For instance, in the west where our interests and tastes coincide. Take care.
Raoul Ciao
February 20, 2013 6:51 am
"Muslims in India are wealthy and have a lot of skills." - I am glad to read this byan Indian Muslim. I had unfortunately been told by Pak classmates in the US that you guys were poor and badly treated and had no skills, used as labour. Looks like y=India has been good to and for you Muslims. Congrats !
February 20, 2013 6:57 am
I can understand your longing to go to Pakistan, but have you any idea regarding the size of the Muslim population in India? I don't think Pakistan has the land to accommodate all the Muslims of India. Would this migration solve the 'non-state actor' problem in Pakistan?
February 20, 2013 7:07 am
I have now read all the three articles in this series. It is a good series. Every person wants to improve his/her happiness. But in this complex world, noone is ever sure whether he or she is on correct path. This unsurety drives them to look for tried and tested strategies. I think religious beliefs are nothing but these strategies. However, the point missed is - These strategies were tested some 1500 years ago. A LOT has changed since then. Second, you can never sustain happiness if you do not innovate. I am a believer of Survival of the fittest theory in this regard. If you stick to one will not sustain or survive. Third, different people can have their own version of strategies. Just by forcing your strategy onto others is not going to make them accept it. But leading yourself to prosperity and happiness using your strategy is automatically going to make others look upto you, and adopt your strategy.
February 20, 2013 7:09 am
We the people of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh share the same cultural heritage. The same blood is running in our veins. We might follow different religions but we are all the proud inheritors of our rich civilization running since time immemorial. India naturally acknowledges it but the entire Pakistan establishment has always deliberately tried to deny this fact by distorting the real historical facts because otherwise the whole concept of two nation theory falls flat on its face. It has taught fabricated history in schools to give utterly false sense that they are culturally and racially different . Two nation theory was fundamentally flawed and artificial and the then Muslim league leaders actions can only be termed as selfishness of few bourgeois muslims and landlords. Millions migrated due to partition, Hundreds of thousands killed in madness. There were wise visionary leaders like Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan who were against Partition and saw it’s futility but they found themselves cornered amidst the euphoria of new nation that was being created by influential and powerful but selfish Muslim leaguers.
February 20, 2013 7:15 am
Vijai, Ithink that is a very patronizing approach that will not get us anywhere - we need to refelct collectively as we are as much a part of the problem as well as the solution
February 20, 2013 7:16 am
Mohammed Ali Jinnah was a hindu just two generations back. Normally new converts are more fanatical. This is made abundantly clear by his short sighted action of creating an artificial country in the name of islam.
February 20, 2013 7:20 am
Thomas, I dont think your perspective will get us beyond the present context that we both face as India and Pakistan. I found it very useful to read Aitihaz Hassan's : The Indus Saga.
February 20, 2013 7:23 am
I am glad. I hope Pakistan rids itself of terror and can become a prosperous country. That will be good for India too :)
February 20, 2013 7:23 am
That is critical but there was a smell of fiction.
February 20, 2013 7:24 am
Jay, very encouraging to see your response
February 20, 2013 7:26 am
this is called day dreaming.
February 20, 2013 7:27 am
After reading this article i was so immersed in thought because correct Histories was never written due to limited political gain in our sub-continent. On second though I do wish that we would not have separated and yet prospered provided people like you would have drive / guided our political and constitutional laws and this country would have outgrown any other developed country in the world. My full accolade to this true and fearless writing. Pakistan should be proud to have such eye-openers with them. Thank you for correcting my History. .
February 20, 2013 7:31 am
Right you are. All Muslim writers nowdays use the term "Muslim Settlers" as if all Muslims came from Non Indian Lands, which is wrong. They should boldly say "Converts". Whats the Problem?
February 20, 2013 7:39 am
When you say Pakistan is a regional power, you meant since you have few nuclear devices you got the power to DESTROY and so a Power, then Pakistan is already a global power.... In other counts very much a failed state. India has much higher goals to achieve and we are very much on course.
February 20, 2013 7:42 am
very correct,,I hope more Pakistanis will think like this
February 20, 2013 8:18 pm
With due respect , why do we need to read hindu scriptures , yes we share the same culture to an extent , but we know for fact that hindu lala is very cunning in dealings . state level or at personal level. You have taken all our waters , half of our land , most of kashmir and now this white flag....I dont understand. Yes I have very good indian friends and we share similar values but this is IT
February 20, 2013 7:55 am
I think the points raised by author are in response to those who believe that their ancestry is somewhere in middle east and somehow Muslims are superior to Hindus. I think author has tried to take them on in this article. The fact that conquerors of those days (whether Hindu or Muslim) did not hesitate impose their faith on people and thus Muslim rulers were not exceptions. But this argument would not impress the "Muslims are superior to Hindu because of Islam" crowd. No wonder author did not want to take this approach in the debate.
February 20, 2013 8:02 am
Kab jaa rahe ho...ticket ke paise bhej raha hoon
February 20, 2013 8:08 am
@Shujaat. You are correct to an extent no doubt. There is hostility, true, but it is not on your beliefs. Your belief is yours and mine is mine. However, the constant pushing (various proxy wars) is what is driving us to the edge. We want a stable Pakistan. An average Indian does not take Pakistan army as a direct threat. We can be friendly, forgiving how much? how long? The standard line is that 'even Pakistan is a victim of terrorism'. You cannot get away with this all the time. You would know during Mr. Vajpayee's (BJP;s) term, what initatives were taken by India. What did we get? Kargil !
February 20, 2013 8:12 pm
Yes. They were aliens from another planet ruling India.
Z Khan
February 20, 2013 8:27 am
What freedom struggle came from India? You all still would have been British colony and slaves had it not been for the second world war initiated by the Hitler and their ilk in Europe. so stop giving others lectures about high horses and so on.
February 20, 2013 8:35 am
My dear God! You can only post this in an English newspaper. Try doing so in Urdu, in the language understood by the majority Pakistani people, and you will understand how wrong you are! The wast majority of Pakistanis are sons of the soil and have lived here since always. Even if we go for your history of 1000 years: then this is more then enough for any rational human. But in the end: movement of people has always existed and there is no such things as a pure race. You forgot to mention that if had the rulers wanted then they coud have forcefully Islamized whole of India: but that too would have been impossible when for example an Emperer like Aurangzeb had several hindu generals in his armed forces. This is why I do not buy you claims! I would also like to add: that it has always been India who has crossed the international border - not Pakistan - and it is also India who is holding back on diplomacy on Kashmir while they are bulding dams and fencing the Line of Control.
alien brahmin
February 20, 2013 8:40 am
its wonderful to see that intellectuals not only exists but they dare to speak truth , in pakistan . his books are available in english ?
February 20, 2013 9:01 am
Its because of people like you that the world dislike whatever you are. However, thinking on your lines, operation akhand bharat would be right plan.
James Kichlu
February 20, 2013 9:15 am
Probably, the best article I have ever read on Dawn and from a Pakistani intellectual. Now I am worried if this person is going to be threatened with his life as truth is not always good news to the people in power....God bless him and his efforts
Gopal Patel
February 20, 2013 9:18 am
It is very heartening to note that there are still free thinking people in a country full of political chaos and anarchy......
February 20, 2013 9:33 am
finally a finest brain from Pakistan . truly written .
Ashok Kapoor
February 20, 2013 9:56 am
I find the author's assertion that Pakistanis have only Muslim ancestors ridiculous. I have done much research on this issue because I was intrigued by the looks in my family including my own. Almost all are very light skinned, many have light eyes and after digging into details I found out that we are the same stock as the people of NWFP and southeast Afghanistan. We are all Hindus but the Punjabi we speak has several Afghani type words which have roots in Sanskrit. I have no doubt that Pakistanis are largely of Hindu stock but because of mixing with the Muslims invaders they have altered genes. Instead of deny their Hindu heritage and their largely Hindu blood they should own up to it, good and the bad. If they study the Hindu scriptures, instead of limiting themselves to the Arabic scriptures, they will only broaden themselves in outlook and will more friendly towards Indians. Our cultures are too similar to pretend that Pakistanis all largely descended from mid-easterners.
February 20, 2013 9:56 am
Very interesting, honest and thought provoking article. Amidst the voices of hate and anger against India, a real gem of analysis and objectivity. I have to admit, I disregarded the existence of such thinkers and analysts in Pakistan. There is hope for co-existence of a peaceful nature between the two countries since this type of writing takes away the need to compete or put one another down.
February 20, 2013 9:57 am
Sir! I would like to put some other thoughts which has long been there in my analysis. Whatever the political authority and self styled leaders of the countries may decide, the intelligentsia, today's youth which is liberated and free whose voices here are the real concerns of the layman of both countries. You have stated about the 3 schools of thought in Pak on India. The 1 wants a war with India. Ñobody wants a war here in India Sir save for self-preservation. The much hyped gazwa hind is mutual annihilation and nothingelse. Have they ever thought what would happen to countless women and children. Do they ever think about it. Ño. Because they are and will always be safe. Ì was reading about that Balkan war. Ì shivered. There the village s were turned to rape and slaughter houses. Ìf ever a war in real sense of the term happens the generation will be destroyed. Á group of mad dogs with their venomous rhetoric want to destroy a 4000 year old civilization. They want a genocide of 150 crore people. Sir! I pray you and all others who are reasonable to create awareness against the fanatics who are hell bent on making a wound gangrene instead of healing it with love and care. May Truth be always victorious.
K Jatt
February 20, 2013 10:11 am
One of the best and intelligent article by any Pakistani intellectual .Tones of Mubarkan to Mubarak
Sam mathur
February 20, 2013 5:37 pm
Iram, Thanks for sharing your views. Loved it when you said " author is also part of Pakistani society"....
February 20, 2013 11:01 am
I am an Indian and don't think that Pakistani ppl should be apologetic about anything. Both the states, India n Pakistan have done a lot of bad to their own people and the state needs to mend that first. Though Pakistanis have been taught a lot of wrong history to fulfill certain motives but that is true to all the government to people relationships around the world. That is what the elites/ the powerful do....its time that you open your eyes and see how the powerful have pitted the vulnerable against each other since decades....a revolution is coming.....its gonna happen in our life time....lets just make sure that we are on the right side. Rather than bickering over pseudo contexts of nationalism lets make sure we have justice for all....
February 20, 2013 12:19 pm
i hope this article will enlighten the masses and give the righteous path to the new generation of
February 20, 2013 12:56 pm
I think the author should write articles such as these in Urdu papers so. That bulk of the society reads and understands , rather than better educated Englisg literatis! Don't underestimate the thinking ability of common man.
February 20, 2013 6:18 pm
Very factual and commendable article originating from Pakistani intellectual. Hope other Pakistani intellectuals, fair minded mullahs & Pakistani Army Generals realize this & convert or eliminate narrow minded fanatic terrorists in their own country & cooperate with neighboring countries to achieve that.
February 20, 2013 1:20 pm
our ancestors .........Dear You have forgotten one thing that....People of Pakistan are not Mugals....They are ARYANS like we Indian.In Indian subcontinent all muslims are converted muslims,The convertion was done by Mugals. Please check your DNA if have any doubt. But overall good article.Keep it up.
Deb; India
February 20, 2013 1:22 pm
@Iram I am with you on this. I do believe that there are many Pakistanis who will agree with the author.
February 20, 2013 1:22 pm
Your post is so full of hate. So typical of us. Even though you made a valid argument, your last sentence nullifies all the good logic.
February 20, 2013 1:27 pm
" On the contrary, our Muslim ancestors came 1000 years ago and did not develop a sense of belonging " What is the basis of your stating this ? What was the muslim percentage in the subcontinent 1000 years ago ? The sub-continent has almost half a billion muslim which exceeds the total population of all the countries as you go west upto the Arab peninsula. To achieve this a sizeable majority of these countries would have shifted here. There was never such a huge migration recorded in the history of civilization.
February 20, 2013 1:31 pm
You have proved the author right.
February 20, 2013 7:24 pm
And what scientific survey you base that 99.9% on? It is rather presumptuous of my Indian friends to make this or similar claims in other comments.
Monty, India
February 20, 2013 2:54 pm
again propaganda by pak media, these r non sense issues u r talking about
February 20, 2013 5:24 pm
Please visit India.I will like to hug you,embrace you and touch your feet nay wash them out of respect and admiration as you stand as a torchbearer of truth,peace and reconciliation.
February 20, 2013 3:18 pm
Thanking all those officials of DAWN who have made this article published as well as the author, who is able to present this truth, and hope this flame of truth spreads to the entire country, so that we Indians will be proud of a great neighbour. Sunil
February 20, 2013 4:38 pm
You may be proud of him but trust me he will not be proud of you the way you are progressing.....may be cursing the decision of partition......
February 20, 2013 5:08 pm
Feel euphoric that at last some utterly rational thinker and neutral researcher has taken the bull by its horns for the author exposes the right wing propaganda resonated both in India and Pakistan of vanquishing each other by force or otherwise.Salute you for admitting if India were at all ambitious it would have easily annexed Bhutan,Nepal or to the least Bangladesh.
February 20, 2013 4:42 pm
Well the way you are progressing increasing population is not a solution you need a rational thought, progressive mind set...and a lot of other factors count..increasing population without working on other factors will infact hurt your dream to be mightiest economies ....before that try to be a stable country.....
February 21, 2013 7:23 am
For your information....Dr. Abdul Kalam is a scientist who worked in developing India's missile technology......We didn't copy or import them from North Korea.
February 21, 2013 7:53 am
What happened to Arundati Roy? She is living happily criticising India on everything and wants it to break into pieces. There has been one instance of stone throwing long ago breaking one window glass in her house - may be stage managed by her. She has even written last week asking Indians to be satisfied with half glass of blood.
February 21, 2013 8:02 am
How someone called "Barbie" taken seriously ?
February 21, 2013 8:07 am
Well said. The Quaid might have made political mistakes. As an Indian, though, I do not like that he is not portrayed as one of the prominent freedom fighters, but only his role in partition is highlighted. Regardless of what finally happened, the truth is Jinnah for most of his life fought alongside others for the freedom of what was then India. That debt of gratitude, today's India must not forget.
February 21, 2013 8:32 am
In earlier decades, and even when private TV channels happened, it was easy for governments to bury opinions, to paint facts as it suited them. Before internet, and particularly social network and websites like Dawn happened, we mostly accepted whatever our government and internal media fed us. Now the duplicity and lies of politicians are easy to see, when true information is readily accessible on the web. Maybe the web deserves a peace prize for that. One thing I have noticed is that there is a tendency in at least a few Muslims to see themselves as being different from the rest of the population of the subcontinent. Different from the population they invaded, and even from those they converted. Even if purity of line has been maintained after living in the subcontinent for at least a few centuries, there is something wrong if a sense of integration or belonging to the land is missing. The idea that a certain population group is somehow better than others still persists in this day and age almost everywhere.
Explore: Indian elections 2014
Explore: Indian elections 2014
How much do you know about Indian Elections?
How much do you know about Indian Elections?