Dawn News

April, 02 2015
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“They do not have a word for ‘ghairat’ in English,” said Khadim. He paused, looked at his audience and asked: “Do you know why?”

Without waiting for a response, he added: “Because they do not have ‘ghairat’ in the West.” His remarks, as he had expected, pleased this audience of South Asian Muslims, Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.  “Not true,” said Farhan, one of the few liberals in the crowd. “They do have a word for ‘ghairat,’ honour.”

“Incorrect,” declared Khadim, “honour is a very light word. It does not have the intensity of ‘ghairat.’”

Many in the audience understood this ‘intensity’ well. They had grown-up daughters. And every time their daughters went out, in jeans or shalwar-kameez, they felt this intensity. The intensity increases, if the jeans are a bit too tight or the headscarves do not cover the head properly.

Farhan had so far been very patient. It was the ‘barsi’ or the annual prayer meeting for someone who had died last year. It was a solemn occasion, where conservatives outnumber others. He did not want a confrontation with them. Whenever they lose an argument, they go to his father who forces Farhan to apologise to “your elders.”

But he could hold no more. He looked around and found a copy of the day’s newspaper. He opened a page, holding it above his head and said:

“Look, this is your ‘ghairat’ and this is what you do when this intensity gets out of control.” And he started reading the caption under a picture:

“This is a June 19, 2012, file photo of Iftikhar Ahmed, the father of murdered teen-ager Shafilea Ahmed. A British court found that Iftikhar and his wife Farzana Ahmed suffocated their 17-year-old daughter, Shafilea, in 2003, because she was seeing boys and had refused to accept an arranged marriage. Both parents are originally from Pakistan.

“During the trial, Shafilea’s sister Alesha told the jury that her parents pushed Shafilea onto the couch and she heard her mother say ‘just finish it here’ as they forced a plastic bag into the girl’s mouth.”

(On Friday Aug. 3, 2012, the court found the parents guilty of murdering their teenage daughter in a so-called honour killing.)

Farhan stopped, waiting for the words to sink in, and said: “If this is ‘ghairat,’ thank God people in the West do not have this ‘ghairat.’ They only have honour.”

“Enough. Sit down,” shouted one of the elders at Farhan. “Who invited this brat to this religious gathering?” Nobody answered him, although they all knew why Farhan was invited.

Unlike most in the audience, Farhan had learned the Holy Quran from an Arab teacher. He recited it faster than others and pronounced every word correctly. He also had a sweet voice. So he was always invited to such places.

And his parents made sure that he went to all such gatherings, sometimes against his will. This was the last Friday before Ramazan. They finished the recital, said the evening prayers and were waiting for the meal when the argument started.

They usually served kebabs and rasmalais at such dinners and Farhan loved both. But the argument upset him, so he walked out, got into his car and drove away.

Once outside, he realised he did not want to go home yet. So he drove to a nearby shisha bar.

“Still no news of the moon?” Razi, who runs this alcohol free shisha bar in a Washington suburb, asked as he saw Farhan.

“Not my problem,” said Farhan, who was still upset.

“It is my problem, though,” said Razi, also a Pakistani-American. “I need to know, to decide whether to have belly dance tonight.”

Around 10 pm, a friend called and told Razi their local mosque had announced that Ramazan starts tomorrow. “OK, there will be no belly dance tonight,” he said.

It was Friday night and the dancer was already there. Razi paid her $400 and sent her home. The dancer, Zebi, although nobody knew her real name, was also a Muslim, a Central Asian Muslim. “I am going to fast as well,” she said. Some believed her. Some did not.

“You wasted $400,” Farhan said to Razi.

“Yes, I cannot do this during Ramazan,” said Razi.

“Oh, I see. You are a Muslim too, right?” said Farhan, “As if Islam allows dancing on other nights.”

“It does not and that’s why I do not serve alcohol at my place. You see, this is America so we have to compromise on some issues.”

What Razi and thousands of others do in America is not a simple compromise. They modify their faith to suit their needs.

Selling alcohol is prohibited but some Muslims sell alcoholic beverages. They justify it by claiming that since they deal with an interest-based banking system, which is also forbidden, they can sell liquor too.

Others deal with the problems they face by drawing lines between what they would and would not do. For instance, most people will not eat pork but they will comfortably gulp down a bottle of beer or a glass of wine.

Some are so particular about halal or haram that they carefully read ingredients list every time they buy a chocolate or a packet of biscuits. But the same people do not mind having girlfriends or even bringing call girls with them.

One such man came home with a call girl and while he was in the bedroom, his friends cooked ‘karahi-gosht’ for him. When he came out, he asked: “Where did you get this meat from?” When told that the meat was from the common refrigerator, he said: “No, I cannot eat this. I know the meat was not halal.”

Razi tried to engage Farhan into a debate on what is allowed and what is forbidden during Ramazan, but Farhan was not interested.

“Not tonight,” he said, “I have had enough of religion for one night.”

“Why, what happened?” asked Razi.

Farhan explained and then said, “I am fed up with these FOBs (freshly off the boat). Why did they come here if they were so concerned about preserving their customs?”

Razi, a second generation American like Farhan, agreed. “I am also fed up these one-track uncles and aunts,” he said. “All they discuss is politics, religion or cricket.”

While they were talking, a customer came with a DVD of Afghan songs and asked Razi to play it. He did. The customer went inside the shisha room where a group of young men and women were waiting for him.

The women – all Muslims from Afghanistan, Pakistan and North Africa – started dancing. The men joined them.

“What will you do now?” asked Farhan with a big grin on his face.

“Nothing, this is America and here the customer is always right,” said Razi, eyeing the dancers with some interest.

As they were watching the amateur dancers, Farhan said he was hungry. Razi called a waiter from the halal restaurant next door.

“What is the Ramazan special, doctor sahib?” he asked the waiter.

“Partridges,” said the waiter, a physician who had twice failed the qualification in America and was now preparing for his third attempt.

“Wow, delicious,” said Razi, “bring two with nans.”

“You should tip this poor physician handsomely,” said Farhan.

“I always do but wait till he passes his exam and then he will be tipping us,” said Razi.

“Do you remember Dr. Nadir,” he asked.

“Yes, I do. Why?” asked Farhan.

“He used to live in a studio apartment before he passed his exam. Last week, he invited me to a dinner at his home. He lives in a palace now. His swimming pool is bigger than three of these shops put together,” said Razi.

“Yes, America is for the doctors,” said Farhan, a software engineer who earned a decent salary but nowhere near what a physician does.

The waiter brought three partridges. “Why three?” asked Razi. “Mr. Khan also wants to join you.” Khan owned the halal restaurant.

While they were eating, two middle-aged men came and said they wanted to talk to Razi separately. Razi took them to a corner, spoke with them for a few minutes and came back. The men went back to their car.

“What do they want?” asked Farhan.

“The same old story. One of them is a Pakistani and the other an Afghan. Their daughters are inside, dancing. They want me to send them home.”

“What did you say?” asked Khan.

“I told them I always checked their IDs and all the girls inside are above 21. So I cannot do anything but they started pleading, asking me to help them as a fellow Muslim. I asked them to wait in the car.”

Farhan finished his food. Then went to the shisha room and spoke to the women. Two of them came out with him, went to their fathers, spoke with them for few minutes, promised to return home soon and came back.

The men drove away.

“What did you say?” Razi asked one of the women.

“We told them we cannot go with them right now because if we do others will make fun of us. We will go soon,” she said. They stayed for another half an hour and then went home.

“This ended nicely,” said Khan. “Remember the other shisha bar, ‘Hookahwalas’? They had to close down because of the parent-children fights.”

“I learned from their mistakes,” said Razi. “First of all, I make sure that all my customers are adults. IDs are always checked.” Then he pointed at a police car, parked on the other side of the road. “And when I sense trouble, I call the cops.”

“I can see why they do that,” said Farhan whose anger had subsided and he was now feeling sorry for the parent-generation. “Poor devils, they had no choice. They came here because they wanted some prosperity, which they got. They were not ready for this huge cultural shock.”

Farhan was right. Most of their parents were from small villages, half-educated and were unable to understand the difference between working in Dubai and migrating to America.

“Why is their ‘ghairat’ always linked to women? Why not men? Nobody comes looking for their sons,” said Khan.

“They do, they worry about their sons too,” said Farhan thinking of his mother who often stays up at night, particularly during Ramazan, praying to God to make sure that her sons remained good Muslims.

Razi said that while the parents of his customers were upset with him for opening this shisha bar, they did not want him to close it down either. “They say that if you close, our daughters will go to other bars where they also serve alcohol.”

“I am sure those two poor souls must have been crying on their way home,” said Farhan.

“Yet, nothing justifies killing your daughter,” he added, thinking of the 17-year old girl killed by her parents in England. "No sympathy for murderers, even if they are parents.

They should be hanged," he said.

“No, nothing justifies a murder, honour or no honour,” Razi agreed.

Khan, who was also a first generation immigrant, was too lost in thoughts to respond.

 


The author is a correspondent for Dawn, based in Washington, DC.

 

 


The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.


Email news tips and feedback to News Desk, submit blogs to Blog Desk and share photos and Videos with Special Projects Desk.


Anwar Iqbal is a correspondent for Dawn, based in Washington, DC.


The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.


Comments (228) Closed



Mohammad Ali Khan
Aug 04, 2012 01:51pm
What is a word for free mind,or reasoning in Urdu? Need real freedom and reasoning in the culture.
Ussi
Aug 04, 2012 02:36pm
I am living in the UK for the last 7 yrs. I follow my religion, everyone here respects that. No shame in being who you are! People here are open minded to understand this.
Zupta
Aug 05, 2012 02:54pm
We, the parents are responsible , but unfortunately not many have courage to admit.
Haris Iftikhar
Aug 06, 2012 04:35am
Most Muslim parents are facing such type of problems in non-Muslim countries. But only one thing I want to say that “It depends upon our self what we want to do” If some one said that do this sin, we do. What that means? It means that we are interested also in this. we want to this by heart. If we will say sorry or no or I can’t then no one can force you. Sons make such type of mistakes then parents said ohh no problem dear don’t do this again. Only few parents taught a lesson to them. Make a rule of respect for all (boys & girls). It’s a human natural factor that in which culture he grew up, he adopts the values, life style etc. of that culture. Many parents do their daughter’s marriages in Muslim countries and take groom with them. This is a natural thing which cant be changed. If we want to changed then we have to change the culture where our young generation is growing up.
Raj Patel
Aug 05, 2012 03:07pm
HA Ha Ha !!!!!!!! LOL !!!! My friend are you school teacher in Pakistan ??? You gave curriculum meaning for 8 th grade student. Does it meant anything in any Pakistan's real life????
manish
Aug 05, 2012 03:12pm
huh! mr. siddiqui, got any proof? or is it just your pakistianiat speaking here? or, better what are the criterias which you use to rate a language higher than another?
Maira
Aug 06, 2012 12:46pm
Very well said. Simple rule is "What goes around comes around".
Rock
Aug 05, 2012 09:00am
Modesty is what we lack. Now days modesty is considered backwards. thats where the problem lies
zahid Baloch
Aug 05, 2012 09:14am
I live in Chicago and same is true for Chicago. This article while written well is fiction or a very small %. I personally never met many people like these in my 30 years in States. I do know what goes on in Pakistan very well. :)
WiseIndian
Aug 04, 2012 01:37pm
Well written.
Mwaqar
Aug 04, 2012 01:27pm
This article reminds me one true incident,I was at a Pakistani restaurant in New York City,couple of Pakistani guys walked in and started asking if Chicken and beef is ''HALAAL' when they were told that yes they serve HALAAL Food they placed order,then they asked if this restaurant serves beer?It was funny when they were told ,''that yes we do have beer but its the only thing which is not Halaal,so what I mean that Pakistanis are just HYPOCRITE.
sinner
Aug 05, 2012 09:59am
but these translations into urdu don't have the intensity of the english words.
Wasif
Aug 04, 2012 01:16pm
you cannot migrate to KSA. Hello
aleena
Aug 05, 2012 12:34pm
I totally agree. In Pakistan its the problem people try to be black or white, but the reality is that majority is always in grey. for the same reason there is sectarianism and clashes/ prejudice based on ethnicity, language and caste in Pakistan
Jam
Aug 04, 2012 12:37pm
They are many highly educated Muslims in America... including both converts and immigrants... that are practicing their faith yet integrated with the American society as well. They are comfortable with being Muslims and Americans at the same time. Why don't you write about them as well? The issues that you describe are mostly related to half-educated people who landed in USA straight out of a village. For them religion was more culture than true faith, which is why they couldn't pass it on to their next generation and neither could reconcile it with their new society.
dog
Aug 04, 2012 01:12pm
ha ahah really funny
@SecularPakista1
Aug 04, 2012 01:11pm
WE are very conflicted people. Living in the 21st Century and trying to hold on to midevil ways. The age of technology and sceince keeps tearing our outer layers of ghairat apart.
Amjad Wyne
Aug 04, 2012 01:03pm
Yes, the verse sums up the state of Muslim mind.
Gerry D'Cunha
Aug 04, 2012 12:35pm
Why don't the Muslims migrate to their 'halal' muslim countries, than perfering to migrating to european countries and crying 'halal/non-halal'. Their muslims brothers in muslim countries can treat them halal.
saythetruth
Aug 05, 2012 11:58am
Simply misguided souls but remember every sole with taste death
Javed
Aug 04, 2012 12:48pm
Well I have been living in States from past 23years in the LA area, Masha Allah there are very good Muslims here who would avoid almost all of the Haram things which has been prohibited by Islam. This article seems a lot like fiction to me, since it is a very small percent of Muslim population here who would act like this. Look at our loving Pakistan, religion is on the back burner and all we are stuck with is corrupt society and the culture. Islam is on the rise here in USA and is alhumdolillah much better and culture free....
Alam
Aug 04, 2012 12:48pm
Tumhari davat qubul hai mujh-ko mager itna khayal rakhna BEER, kisi brand ki ho , lay-kin chicken fried HALAL rakhna Enjoyed that. Thanks.
mansabjappa
Aug 04, 2012 12:26pm
treat sons and dautghters equally
Talat
Aug 04, 2012 12:05pm
We are practising Muslim alhamdulliah but as religion of Convenience.. This is not halal but on the other hand it benefits me, so I can easily forget it what' s halal and what''s not. We are not honest ourselves first. We don't know what are responsibilities and role we supposed to play being Muslim. We just know that how we can benefits from it. People they belong to different religion they laugh at us, the Muslim they just look the benefits then they are Muslims otherwise they American and British, entirely depend upon the gain they get. This is what we are in front of the whole world and our Allah whom we have to meet after this life if we believe.
Chaman
Aug 04, 2012 12:04pm
Sad that the little girl's life had to end this way. All of us as parents stay worried about our children's safety and well being irrespective of where we live or what faiths we pursue. But, being a parent myself, I have learned over time that compulsion often leads to revulsion. Children learn more from our conduct than what we preach to them. Children will buy only what makes sense to them as rational and logical. To expect our children to be mirror image of their parents is a folly of human understanding. The misconceptions about the west are mostly misplaced. Majority of the people are morally very sound and raise their children very well but they do not choke their aspirations or interests. When children become adults, they are supposed be responsible for themselves. Most of the kids do. There are bad and good things happening in every society but the press highlights the worst of the human beings for the most part and that is what the people in east take to be true for the whole society. If we want to understand west produces besides science and technology, see the Olympics games and see what our girls can achieve in their lives.
Rajesh
Aug 04, 2012 11:58am
Excellent story addressing issues of the sub-continent.
Saqib
Aug 04, 2012 11:54am
Good article. Just wanted to point out that no muslim is perfect we all commit sins either knowingly or otherwise. The idea is to avoid as many sins as possible. I have seen this rational in USA too many times where if you are not praying 5 times a day then why dont you drink alcohol? If you have a girlfriend then why not eat pork? etc. Does committing one sin justifies committing another? From a culture or religious prepective, the guy bringing in a call but not eating non-halal food is still better than a guy who brings in a call gril and eat non-halal food. Similarly, the Sesha bar owner who cancels belly dacing shows during Ramadan is better than a Sesha bar owner who would continue it during Ramadan. Committing one sin should not justy committing of other sins. Dont you agree?
Syed Qaseem Ali
Aug 04, 2012 11:53am
Sir, you appeal me to the core with your writings. You present VERY deep points in mere simple day to day observations. Brilliant!
Rehan
Aug 04, 2012 11:48am
@ The killng of the young girl....Honour had nothing to do with religion here. The parents were weak souls who couldnt tame their own children to modesty. No part of my religion instructs such murder. So I ask the "religious killer parents" : Who's done a greater sin now; Killing a 17 year old girl or a 17 year old not abiding to your CULTURAL values??
Arshad
Aug 04, 2012 11:42am
There's no free lunch. You can gain wealth and social status on expense of compromising religious n cultural values.
Nasir
Aug 04, 2012 11:43am
Never be depressed Anam. We muslims should try to follow Islamic teachings seriously. This will surely bring happiness in this world and also in the infinte life hereafter. If Allah is pleased with our actions all other problems are a big 'zero'. Priorities need to be set.
M A Khan
Aug 04, 2012 11:42am
This was very sad it proves that we do not educate our children and later on we expect them to follow the cultural norms. We are treating our daughters as second class where as the son will have all options for him and as for as daughter is concerned some nephew who is thick and uneducated she has to marry. Lets treat our daughters as human who must be given the same opportunities as son. What these couple had done was barbaric and they had committed a mortal sinn for which they will not be forgiven. shame.
farooq
Aug 04, 2012 11:39am
Unfortunately, ghariat serves the purpose of a male dominated societies like ours. And majority of muslim men are hypocrites, they will all line up outside a club, stare at white females calling them names, but would be very angry if they see their own females with anybody else. They try to make white girls their girlfriends but get mostly rejected as they dont know how to communicate with their females family members let alone others. It will take another generation to accept that women have needs, they need to be independent, till then we will see such stories making headlines
sal
Aug 05, 2012 11:59am
yes, for parents of foreign born it is very hard to understand that there childern are more british/american/etc then anything else
@Daniyal8
Aug 04, 2012 11:30am
Enjoyed reading it. No doubt, most conservatives are hypocrite. They say that the people do not have 'Ghairat' in the west but nevertheless, they love to live in the west.
MKB
Aug 04, 2012 11:30am
I read it as a story, good naration & construction. One thing I must say it will good for Muslims to come out from ritualistic practice. True religion do not need retulism.
Ghafar
Aug 04, 2012 11:30am
"They do not have a word for ‘ghairat’ in English" ...... This may be because they are built in be-ghairat
Karachi Wala
Aug 04, 2012 11:27am
These are the very genuine questions that needed to be sorted out soon. This is a sorry situation for 1st and 2nd generation both. Unless, the ongoing clash of civilizations takes a new and unpredictable shape, the 3rd or 4th generation will careless about a sheesha bar with or without alcohol. There will be no fathers waiting outside and mothers praying for her sons and daughters at home!!!
pakistani
Aug 04, 2012 11:24am
Bereft of Ghairat would not have the world include in its dictionary... it embraces the sense of self-esteem, courage, honour, bravery and loyalty to ones highest value....!
sal
Aug 05, 2012 11:55am
alot of the Pakistanis living in west are actaully those who moved there at the time of world war 2 and afterwards when they needed work force for economic development. The second/3rd generation is from those people. so they wanted them there. But in general i agree with your point, Muslims cannot integrate with western society without giving up there values but can co exist in peace. you give up ur religion/values/culture and they are nice people. But that is the choice you have to make. ofcourse if your kids are grown up there, they will be more british/american, doesnt take a genious to figure that out As far as west giving two hoots, if that is the case, why are they in Iraq/Af and all their media is full of crap abt Muslims. Western media is extremely hypocrite.
Dr abdul jamil khan
Aug 04, 2012 11:21am
Great Mr Iqbaal sahab, While in USA, u perhaps have heard this 'shay'r of a NY poet Khalid Irfan:If not hope u will enjy. A pakistani young man responding to his girl friend re an evening date says: Tumhari davat qubul hai mujh-ko mager itna khayal rakhna BEER, kisi brand ki ho , lay-kin chicken fried HALAL rakhna
muhammadanasabbasjamal
Aug 04, 2012 11:16am
CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT..... ...well written, at once I thought I am reading a novel.
sal
Aug 05, 2012 11:58am
yes finally someone said a million dollar thing. Islam puts restriction on both men and women!!! Thats what our society miss, put restrictions on men....
Bahader Khan
Aug 04, 2012 10:59am
Agree with the overall concept of this article ... why are people hell bent on changing religion for their personal manifestations and apply the rigid rules to others will be a mystery till the day of judgement!!!
anam
Aug 04, 2012 10:49am
That was very thought provoking and brought up some extremely relevant issues within Muslim communities. Also kind of depressing.
raika45
Aug 04, 2012 12:11pm
In that case do not migrate to western countries.They have their own culture and way of life.Try migrating to Saudi Arabia or Iran.Then Allah will be pleased with your actions.The west gives two hoots for your religious beliefs.Why go where your values are not wanted?
Gerry D'Cunha
Aug 06, 2012 10:41am
saythetruth: You should give your guidance to your champions of Islam 'Moulvis/Mullaha' not to misguide the people or to advocate in killing one another for minor differences.
Khizr
Aug 05, 2012 03:29pm
Because the stories of people practicing religion in the west and doing so respectfully are not as exciting as this one. Anwar writes about issues that do more than raises some eyebrows and make us uncomfortable. And it is very much required to do so. I sometimes ask myself if Anwar is using too wide a brush to paint us all? But then I appreciate his writing, to bringing up the issue without preaching about solutions to the issues. Good piece Mr. Iqbal.
Salim
Aug 04, 2012 12:12pm
We south asians are more interested in commenting what other fellow countrymen are doing rather than mending our own ways. We are all the time thinking, what other people will say. These people believe that other people's parole can change their life. Well, in west everybody is for himself. They do not care what others are doing as long as it does not concerns them. As parents we have to give our children good education and good health whether in west or in our home country. Then it is the children choice how to live their lives. And education must include reading the translation of Quran, not merely learning to recite Quran.
Ahmed
Aug 05, 2012 09:43am
There is no word for Ghairat in English
mehmudah
Aug 05, 2012 09:28am
What an amazing piece!
A. BASIT MORIO
Aug 05, 2012 10:31am
It is pretty-disappointing to see the parents killing their own daughters in the name of their so-called GHAIRAT instead resolving such matters with a wise decision. Unfortunately, in our country, the mainstream sense of word ghairat means to set several lives on death without seeking a calm and peaceful remedy for such problems. .. The second discussion in the article is regarding committing sins. If somebody is trying remain safe from committing one sin whilst he is committing another at the same time, i think committing one malicious sin does not justify to commit other sins also. One should try to commit the less possible sins.
haseeb Irshad
Aug 05, 2012 08:59am
Brilliant writing.
mansabjappa
Aug 04, 2012 12:17pm
i impressed because these are facts of our society
A Father
Aug 05, 2012 02:48pm
like it.
Gran- ma Miriam
Aug 05, 2012 02:38pm
Point I like best in your comment that going into depression is not encouraged.... Would like to stress that in the name of 'ghairat' we just can not make for ourselves 'halal' ...murder / verdicts and punishments given out by individuals.......a forbidden act!....Time to get some 'Ilm'....Time to educate ourselves..
Dilawer
Aug 04, 2012 02:37pm
There are lots of English words which can not be translated in Urdu. For example, respect, justice, hardwork, population control etc. The list is long but if you insist then I can provide the complete list.
Umer Furqan
Aug 04, 2012 02:44pm
Ohh please Raika, your thought is lame. Muslims should only live in Muslim majority countries. All non believers should live in west. This is not how real life work, values are for yourself not for others to show. If others want to know about them, they should be explained otherwise ALLAH will ask you YOUR sins. Not the sins committed by your white neighbor who used to hate your values.
Usama
Aug 04, 2012 02:46pm
A junior student at my University asked my friend on his first day to make sure the dinner he was going to have was Halal and was satisfied with the answer. At another dinner, low and behold, our friend had a special drink in his hands...
Umer Furqan
Aug 04, 2012 02:48pm
Arshad you need to rethink on your stance, without any argument I got an example of Hashim Amla.
Lubna
Aug 05, 2012 12:15pm
Parents should discuss with children what do they expect from them in their childhood,so that they know about their limits and responsibilities.No such issues of killing for honour will arise then.
sal
Aug 05, 2012 12:12pm
"here are bad and good things happening in every society but the press highlights the worst of the human beings for the most part and that is what the people in east take to be true for the whole society." People in east take to be true for the whole society? you are kidding right? and what about people in the west taking it true for the whole society from headlines of bbc/cnn???? is that not ridiculous?
rehan1975
Aug 05, 2012 12:09pm
It's hilarious the way the word "ghairat" pisses off our "secular" and "liberal" media... it's almost as if having "ghairat" is a disease and something that should be gotten rid of immediately.... I guess this is what happens when "booze" , "bikinis" and "skirts" become symbols of a "golden" era !!!
sal
Aug 05, 2012 12:09pm
facts of foreign society.
Umer S
Aug 05, 2012 12:08pm
"...And majority of Muslim men are hypocrites..." Please learn to differentiate between Islam and South Asian culture. 'Ghairat' has nothing to do with Islam. Why doesn't the Arab Muslim community in America have the 'ghairat' problem? Because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM!!! This is very much limited to the Sub-continent and not only to Pakistan and Afghanistan. Do a search online in Indian and Bangali newspapers and you will find enough sorties of 'honor with intensity'.
sal
Aug 05, 2012 12:06pm
yes you are right, Pakistanis living in the west only though! I will add two things. this issue will always exist with people living in a foreign country especially with second generation etc. Second, its not that bad, atleast they were trying at somethings. I mean its like saying to a thief, you are a thief why dont you kill people as well?
illawarrior
Aug 04, 2012 03:11pm
I have read the various comments here, yet I still have no idea of what "ghairat" means. Can someone please explain it to me?
sal
Aug 05, 2012 12:04pm
these kind of people exist in every society, take the london mob incident as an example
rehan1975
Aug 05, 2012 12:05pm
loved the reply !!!!!
sal
Aug 05, 2012 12:02pm
well said, but thats the ultimate choice we have to make, do we want to grow our children abroad and may be earn more money etc? if yes then this problem will stay there for a few generations and then the next generations will simply be westernised. Simple solution is grow ur children at home. sacrifice!
sal
Aug 05, 2012 12:00pm
not exactly pointing out issues of the south asians in west.
akhter husain
Aug 04, 2012 03:26pm
The writer perfectly painted our cultural problem.Unfortunately we are caught between the devil and the deep sea May God protect us.
AAA
Aug 04, 2012 03:38pm
Pakistanis take their religion too seriously
Arman Zain
Aug 04, 2012 03:38pm
Great narration Indeed!!! Being living in West my self I do ask my self these questions .... Was it a good decision to come to US or any western country? Did I already compromised on my religion the day I landed? Did I chose easier and better life style or my religious preferences? Yes, I can convince my self I will refrain my self from so call evil of west but what about my children ? Did I make a right decision for my kids ? Being a Muslim, did I chose Duniya over Deen ? and when I read the same news for UK case and not that long ago same kind of case in Canada ... I asked my self how will I deal with it when it comes to such times, as there are good chances it may come down to this considering that is the popular culture in West? I am educated and all that but what lies in my core is the culture I was brought up in, years of living in west may have a thick coat over that core but I still cant digest my daughter coming home with her boyfriend, as it is not part of my religion, culture and ultimately me, myself but it is part of her culture so only thing that will hold her is religion and then back to same question, Have I given her enough Eman so she can with stand peer pressure ? Have I put her in a position where she has to fight against the culture I have put her in ? So if she walks in with her bf who is to blame ... Believe me or not ... I do ask my self this question. Arman Zain
illawarrior
Aug 04, 2012 03:39pm
so .. will someone tell ... what is "ghairat"??? like me, most readers probably have no idea!!!
Raza
Aug 04, 2012 03:50pm
Religion of convenience or cherry picking creates hypocrisy. And hypocrisy is root of all issues in Pakistan. I wish we can learn how to be humans first, essence of teachings of Prophet SAW, Allah had enough Angles to worship him, Adam was created to see how we deal with each other while following commandments of Allah
iobserveall
Aug 04, 2012 03:56pm
Actually most people in the West do not bother about what religion others have because we believe it is a private matter and none of our business. I regularly hear talk of "East" and "West" values. I have come into contact with a lot of people from all over the world. One thing I have noticed is that Muslims are worse for harassing women and wanting girlfriends than Western men. Then when they go back to their families they are the good children again. I am not criticizing Muslims here, my best friends are Muslims and I like the Islamic religion too. I would like to say there is no such thing as Western or Eastern values. They are all human values and it is the upbringing and character of the person which decides how they behave. Most of what is written about "Western" behaviour is sensationalism to sell newspapers. People all over the world are basically the same but you have to take bigoted and ignorant people into account and they can be found everywhere. I believe if you move to another country you have to accept the way of life there but in your own house you live as you choose and worship as you choose. As we say in England, "your house is your castle." But you accept everyone's right to live as they choose outside your door.
Mahmud
Aug 04, 2012 03:57pm
Extreme male ego is the equivalent of Ghairat.
Behroz Khan
Aug 04, 2012 04:01pm
Excellent, Anwar Iqbal Sahab.
Rana
Aug 04, 2012 04:04pm
No Sir, it is not 'muslim mind' it is 'Khalid Irfan's mind or the mind of those who agree with it.
KKRoberts
Aug 05, 2012 01:38pm
Not at all.In the case of Chicken and Beef , there is a killing action taking place.In the case of beer, there is no killing.They don't want to bear the sin of killing by eating non-halal meat.
virkau
Aug 04, 2012 04:10pm
Cultural gap, generation gap. Change only is permanent. Stillness means death. Old will resist, the younger generation is more amenable to change. People who cannot change suffer.
@NoJudging1
Aug 04, 2012 04:13pm
loved your response.
@NoJudging1
Aug 04, 2012 04:16pm
True, however, Allah also says that each person is responsible for his/her deeds, and you are responsible for your deeds. Don't stress over what someone else says or does; only worry about yourself. If you are good, then no matter what I do will not affect your deeds. Somewhere along the way, we lost the plot and started minding what other people did in their own lives.
Ahmad
Aug 04, 2012 04:18pm
I have seen more ghairat in them than anybody else I've met. They are certainly more ghairat-mand that me! I have learned more of it from them than uncles and aunties in Pakistan.
Sal
Aug 04, 2012 04:20pm
Like someone already said we dont educate our childern about Islam, and its very hard for Muslims in western culture. From school to daily activities they learn western culture. Also that there is no free meal, give up ur religion and culture for social status and money etc, one has to make that choice. Living in west, i have come to conclusion, that we are two very different cultures and we cannot integrate unless we give up our religion, drink alcohol, dont worry too much abt halal, have a gf/bf and its all good but if you dont want to give up urself then you cannot integrate with western people, only within ur community. And ofcourse with second generation its always be tricky, they will lose their culture, if not second then third and so on. As far as ghairat is concerned, dont bf/husbands kill thier gf/wives in the west? why are they not given such coverage? racism? hypocrisy?
Umer S
Aug 05, 2012 01:33pm
Please do not blame it on religion. Its the sub-continent culture. The Arab Americans do not have these issues in their communities and majority are Muslims.
Aamir, San Diego USA
Aug 04, 2012 04:30pm
It is odd that most Pakistani's would rather move to the so called "be-ghairat" west than "ghairat-mand" Pakistan.
Irfan Husain
Aug 05, 2012 01:30pm
A wonderful snapshot of the Muslim immigrant's dilemma.
KKRoberts
Aug 05, 2012 01:30pm
An impossible dream of south asian daughters!!??.
Abid Khwaja
Aug 04, 2012 04:48pm
This article is a perfect example of what will happen when you mix "Good with Evil" and an example of what you will face when you desire and wish for this life instead of desiring and wishing for Aakhira.
G.a
Aug 04, 2012 05:24pm
It's not only ghairat. It's also hypocrisy. For instance breaking all the traffic and parking rules around mosques before Friday prayers. Or cursing and swearing all the way from the mosque to the halal restaurants across the street after completing Friday prayers.
nadeem
Aug 04, 2012 05:24pm
This is europe and we have two choices- live here for a better life with less efforts compromising the cultural and religious values OR leave it and go back to where we belong to for a life with many social and financial challenges . We need to learn one more thing and that is ...to take the responsibility of our decisions taken in the past... . we live in europe with an excuse in our mind that we are living and working hard here for the better future of our children but we ignore our children as we do not have time for our children but for work to earn money and buy big bunglows back home to be big among our relatives...then why such complaints about this society........ if society is to be blamed then why do we have many many good examples of many muslim families....living happily without such issues...think about it...
Mannu
Aug 05, 2012 01:14pm
you missed the sarcasm :)
anwar
Aug 04, 2012 05:26pm
there is no concept of beghairat in west so you will not find its exact english.
Qamer
Aug 04, 2012 06:10pm
Not agree with the following paragraph that "MOST PEOPLE WILL GULP DOWN". Author should use the word MANY instead. "Others deal with the problems they face by drawing lines between what they would and would not do. For instance, most people will not eat pork but they will comfortably gulp down a bottle of beer or a glass of wine."
Ali Hamid
Aug 04, 2012 06:15pm
"His mother who often stays up at night and prays for him". Loved it. I think we still want this to happen regardless of anything. Even westerners admit that their social fabric has broken. We need to create a balance here as extreme of anything is bad.
Muzamil
Aug 05, 2012 02:38pm
Very thought provoking article. I completely agree that its parents role to supply all necessary teachings to Children so when they grew up they stick with there culture and religion. But nowadays it quite seems very hard as everything is very open and instead of neglecting it parents occupy and bring it to there homes. If we stick to our culture and religion instead of being extremist knowing whats good and whats bad for us, i believe a human mind can distinguish between good and bad. So i believe the endings would be nice instead of being all submerged into west culture. I live in US and i have seen this issues, people in Ramadan Care but rest of the months are like they really don't think about it..Most pakistani's born even don't like to speak there own language. Its all to the parental approach how they are growing up there children.
Shafi
Aug 04, 2012 06:37pm
We need to differentiate between halal/haram and sins. To me Haram is something which is totally forbidden. whereas a sin is something you commit which is not forbidden but is considered bad. Can someone enlighten please?
Relignsucks
Aug 04, 2012 06:53pm
Very dumb thing to say, indeed.
Syedjan
Aug 04, 2012 07:01pm
Whose religion and cultural values? Yours sir ? You have none. Please look around, watch news or read paper. It's high time that you wake up to this fact.
marghoob ahmed
Aug 04, 2012 07:02pm
No doubt what ever has been said is true but what we Pakistanis are doing in the name of Ghairat Does ISLAM permits most of the things we see and do in Pakistan?
Hassan
Aug 04, 2012 07:05pm
Simply put. If you are too concerned about Ghairat in a different culture, move to Middle East and not the west. They have plenty of "ghairat" out there. Live and let other people live....
jamal
Aug 04, 2012 07:16pm
eating pork is unintelligent eating finding only zabiha so called halal meat is sychological disorder...ppl should stop applying religious text as mathematics book.
Apache
Aug 04, 2012 07:26pm
What the author forgot to include is that Mr. Ahmed who murdered his daughter, once upon a time had a totally westernized life style including the clubbing, dancing and white girls. He even married a Danish lady and had a son by her. Yet according to him his daughter was bringing disgrace to his family because of her westernised lifestyle. Ghairat and hypocrisy go hand in hand. Please read http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2183160/S...
Annie
Aug 04, 2012 07:29pm
I live in US and though I agree to most of the points in this beautifully written article, I want to point out 2 things. First, not all the Muslims who make sure to eat halal are wayward in other ways. Its a matter of a person's religiosity. I know families who struggle to eat, earn and live halal yet they are blend in this rich fabric of life here without going to night clubs and having GF/BF. Secondly, whether you are ghairat mand or not, no one can kill their daughters for their sins. Your daughter is an adult and you would not be responsible for her sins. Remember the saying " na baap ka badla bete se aur na bete ka badla baap se liya jaye ga." Who told them that the kids can be treated like property. Or God Forbid, they try to say that they are more ghairat mand than Allah subhanutalla, who put these grave responsibilties on state and not individuals. They do these so called honour killings in the name of prophet also. Can somebody please verify if a common man is allowed to do this coz it brings dishonour to our relogion. I'm not a scholar but to me They are simply murderers and should be treated like one.
Anam
Aug 04, 2012 08:04pm
Well written article. I had once written a status on my fb claiming that people should not talk about God n Mercy when they themselves treat people like dogs. Some agreed and some got offended - I'll talk about us, the people who live abroad, well we are too confusing. I totally agree with what you said, they have girlfriends and yet they want " halal " meat. Double standards to the core. I dont believe West makes us confusing, we ourselves are very confusing. We do things to be " IN " and then lose our touch with ourselves. I still remember a guy in HS who was telling this other guy who came from Pakistan " if you dont have a girlfriend, people will think something is wrong with you - that you're not a MAN" - like seriously. We are lost souls. Same filthy standards here as well, a Muslim girl has a bf, she becomes " haram ", a boy sleeps around, he becomes a " MAN " - We Pakistanis instead of coming abroad and understanding religion in a better light, bring the same old biased cultural luggage abroad.
sattar rind
Aug 04, 2012 08:37pm
its really good that the west do not have any word for ghairat. they have only the word honor.
MJ Siddiqui
Aug 04, 2012 08:40pm
Respect = "Ehtraam" ... Justice = "Insaaf" .... Hardwork = " Mehnat " ... Population Control is not a single word but a grouped word. Urdu by any scale another than technical is a much richer language than English.
Dr. Asad Sadick,
Aug 04, 2012 09:05pm
Is there Ghairat in Pakistan? Be honest.
Dilawer
Aug 05, 2012 02:03pm
Really? The problem is deeper than just taking religion seriously. The relation between man and God is strong than between Man to Man. this is the root cause of the lack of love and tolerance. Some how this point was missed by the religious scholars.
Dr M F Ahmed
Aug 05, 2012 02:06pm
Arman, if you dont want your girl to have any chance of having a boyfriend, then pack up everything you own, empty your bank accounts and take yourself and your children back to Pakistan. What's the chance or odds of your daughter having or finding a boyfriend in Pakistan? You seem to want to live and die in West, but will never accept the consequences of your choice.
Frank
Aug 04, 2012 09:54pm
Poorly written article I don't believe the conclusions drawn in this article are correct.
Horia
Aug 04, 2012 10:21pm
Dear Anwar Sahib, Very beautiful, many practices are more traditional rather then Islam and then we mixed up and struggle to understand what is religion and what is tradition. If our sons are having girlfriends this is fine and we can easily close our eyes, if he does all other prohibitions still this is fine because he is a MAN!!! We always forget the fact that Halal and Haram are applied for both men and women equally and there is no selection of Sharia shopping list which some Muslim do they can choose what will be fine for them and what will not as you rightly mentioned about only eating Halal meat but having a call girl at home and drinking alchole is seems OK.
ppnsh
Aug 04, 2012 10:22pm
Sounds like we've lost our sense of humanity. What's religion if there is no humanity to lift it up? The other problem is the inability to differentiate between culture and religion.
Wes
Aug 04, 2012 10:35pm
the word is Honor..you einstein.
Dilawer
Aug 05, 2012 02:01pm
You missed the point. I am not talking about literal translation.
Imran A.
Aug 05, 2012 01:59pm
It means it will take another generation to give up ghairat? It will take one more generation when a brother will tell me that his sisters has hots for me? It will take one more generation to accept that my sister is going clubbing and may come home the next night? Dude I would never want to live a life like that. If you are already living such a life, how about trying gay life too?
Dehwar
Aug 04, 2012 10:45pm
Killing of their daughters or other women of the family in the name of honor is common practice in some parts of Pakistan and to justify themselves for doing so they make it religious act when it is their culture. Does somebody can think that the Hindus or Sikhs can let their daughters to go and meet and date boys. I don't think so. So this is the culture of the area and nothing to do with the religion. In Islam one has to prove the adultery in the presence of four witnesses and then act when proved guilty by an Islamic court of law under the Islamic jurisdiction.
mohammad
Aug 04, 2012 11:11pm
west does more crimes by doing abortion. why do not you recognise that. the child in the womb is a live entity and has life. why dont you highlight that issue in terms of ghairat, honour, human rights, moral values, women rights.? you people are only after islam to criticize it. ALLAH IS WATCHING US ALL. in west how many people are being killed inside mothers womb after illegal and legal conception. why do not u recignise that. this one incident in uk is being so much of hype. mistakes happen with everybody and nobody is immune. try to see the cause of it. do not attack islam.
Kashif
Aug 04, 2012 11:19pm
I have been living in USA for 12 years now. I know many families who learned their deen better ever since they came abroad. They neither engage in haram nor do they meet with people who engage in haram. The point that I am trying to make here is that a lot of people in Pakistan will generalize everyone who live abroad when they read this article, which is not true. The second point that I'd like to make is that there is no guarantee that your kids will be good, regardless of how pious you are. However, if you have double standards and mingle with people who are into drinking and haram businesses, then the chances of your kids going astray increase multiple folds. For the children there are too many bad influences and distractions outside and the last thing they need is bad influence in their homes.
Kashif
Aug 04, 2012 11:30pm
Are you suggesting that the 3rd and 4th generation will not even be Muslims? Our religion does not teach honor killing, it is a cultural thing which should not be confused with the religion. We should all pray that Allah saves us and our children from haram and keep them on the straight path.
Mustafa Razavi
Aug 04, 2012 11:41pm
There is no Ghairat in India but they certainly have a lot more people killed for marrying or just having relationships outside their castes. Our NeoLib "intellectuals" are trying to associate all ills with our religion and Tahzeeb. As for the Sesha bar owner, we are not a society of shop keepers or Baniyas, our Tahzeeb is not represented by shop keepers. By the way, I think there is no word in English for Tahzeeb either. We don't immigrate for any cultural values, those who immigrate do so for money, I am sure the author is well aware of that. Lots of Americans spend most of their working lives in the Gulf states, they are not there for any culture.
kaiser
Aug 04, 2012 11:44pm
where is our ghirat when we steal and rob, and do not give the poor their due share, or do not pay taxes,or do not give others their rights, or our females their due share in property, their right to choose, or respect and protection to the weaker sections of society , or do an honest day's work to earn a living. The west was not built in a day , and had a lot more than ghairat alone could do.
Salar
Aug 04, 2012 11:45pm
@Anam, not just Muslim communities but all 3rd world communities. These inhumane practices are pre-islamic. On June 19 an India Sikh chops his daughter's head off for honor sake. These are cultural evils and not religious.
mehak
Aug 05, 2012 12:00am
honor killing for me here means killing ur honor n pride which ALLAH gave u in the form of daughter.
@PaxTolerans
Aug 05, 2012 12:07am
Well then there you have it, "Islamic brotherhood". We hate to admit how tolerant & pluralistic those "infidels" are, especially when compared to "birader muslim mumalik".
Mazhar Khan
Aug 05, 2012 12:24am
I think we are seeing too much in it. What is happening in Pakistan even there young generation is confused. Parents are struggling to survive can't really spend time with kids to guide and teach values how to be a good muslim and good citizen. Finger pointing is a standard problem with us. Keep your home a relaxed place for the kids so that they feel suffocated and find means outside to relax. Have open communication and dialogue understand their exposure this western society and their pressures help them in becoming a useful human being and helping person. Morality will come with that, forcing will not help as here they have hundred ways to sneak out and you just can't do anything and same is good in Pakistan this time now. We have to be sane, liberal but clear in our values and I said involve the results will be there for sure to see s
Omer
Aug 05, 2012 12:32am
@ Amjad: The verse does not sum up the state of "Muslim" mind. It sums up the state of "Fasiq" - The one who neglected the command of Allah which reached us through Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. and his companions. Problem is not the religion - it is the people who consider exercising such heinous acts as religous. Islam provided the modern vision 1400 years ago Alcohol/killing daughters/oppression/adultery/dancing/signing e.t.c prevailed at the time of Prophet. (I would not call this 21st century singing and dancing approach "modern"- I call it old school) Prophet taught discipline to mankind and modern approach towards life.
Dr. Q
Aug 05, 2012 01:01am
Well said...
ali
Aug 05, 2012 01:05am
i don't think it is a good article at all. what is the main idea? if you fail one, fail all. what is the solution? a big nothing. bad example is not example. solution is simple: muslims should integrate with the entire world but following their religion strictly. religion is not an obstacle to get prosperity.
saythetruth
Aug 05, 2012 01:16am
Maybe what is describe is fiction and may be not and it is true but one thing for sure struggles of Muslims in the West is no different than living in Pakistan or any other Muslims country. On one hand the Muslims have to defend their Deen in the West because for every good quality of the religion that is given by the Muslims to a non Muslims is treated with the just one questions, yes we understand your religion is beautiful but tell us why Muslim countries are so messed up. To most practicing Muslim, living in the west is not a problem and they continue to practice their religion even is some cases better than their own countries. Many western are giving up their religion and taking Islam as their new religion not because they get inspired by Muslim countries but simply reading Quran and is most cases they practice religion better than born Muslim. Yes, there are Muslim in the west mostly from Iranian/Iraqi/Lebnon background 2nd~3rd generation they have completely drifted away from Islam other than the name that they keep even they change their name from Hussain to HAS, Syed to Sid, Maryam to May and so and they have completely lost their identity, culture and religion. On one hand this is very concerning but on the other hand it very natural when you don't even know you religion how do you follow it and this problem is not in the West but also common in the Muslim countries. A common Muslim is very ignorant about his religion even living in the Muslim countries for example a typical Muslim will keep his Muslim name and will engage in all kind of un- Islamic activities or fall into the traps of Shatan by following un-Islamic rituals and I don't want to start another debate about unislamic rituals. The bottom line is Islam is doing very well in the west some example that are give are true but one should visit a Mosque or a any Islamic center in any USA city and see how many Muslim both born and Reverts are reading, memorizing and implementing Quran in their own life’s no force just their own will and love for Allah in their heart. The number of Muslims following Islam out weigh more than the one’s that drifted away left Islam. Even it is very come that at young age some Muslims will engage in so called western pleasures of sin for a short time mostly the FOB ”Fresh of Boat” but most of them take 180 degree turn and give up life of sins and follow Islam. The good news is Islam is very well and alive in the west, don't get depressed but should always be concern and careful. As long as Muslim follow the word from Quran "IQRA" mean READ it has a deep meaning and Muslims know the meaing very well, that’s what Allah told Prophet Mohammad pbup and due to it we have nothing to worry. Reading Quran with translation gives better understanding Islam why I can say this with such a authority because I have see it with my own eyes. Many western pick translation of Quran with a precipitation that they will gain insight to Islam and get back to Muslim but they end of finding the Truth and becoming Muslim. Many scholars of Islam in the West from Yusuf Estes to Ingrid Mattson fall in love with Islam by reading translation of Quran and not because they like Muslim so much.
Binte syed
Aug 05, 2012 01:33am
This remind me of a couple who were non-Muslims and so was their past 4,5 generations get to know their ancestors who migrated to America were not only Muslims but they actually were Islamic scholars and they lost their faith in next not more than 3, 4 generations. However, this couple later learned about Islam and regained their faith alhamdolillah!
SIDRA
Aug 05, 2012 01:39am
THEY MODIFY THEIR FAITHS TO SUIT THEIR NEEDS...........V TRUE FOR MUSLIMS OF PRESENT DAY ESPECIALLY MUSLIM MEN QUITE EASILY MODIFY EVERY THING ESPECIALLY FAITH SUIT THEIR NEEDS..........
Zupta
Aug 05, 2012 01:43am
I just felt that I am reading my observations, you put them in words beautifully . The problem with all those who came to America, in the words of Ashfaq Ahmed" nan-e-javeen ki talash main" is that they, I include myself too, are confused. We must remember a price has to be paid for our decisions. We the parents brought these young people and exposed them to this culture and now are trying to stop what is inevitable. Only thing which can save next generation is open communication. No amount of threats, religious dose or emotional blackmail will alter the situation. You will only force them to have twin personalities, behaving differently in different situations.
Singh
Aug 05, 2012 02:04am
The parents were weak souls who couldnt tame their own children to modesty. Are they your child or some domestic pet you wanna TAME.? Children are to be guided not TAME.
fareen
Aug 05, 2012 02:15am
according to my understanding of islam parents are not responsible for the sins of their children after adulthood. so we need to focus on all aspects of our religion.
Mian Zain ul Zafar
Aug 06, 2012 09:29am
This writer has never stopped astonishing me. This guy gets it write every time. A true reflection of out selves. Cheers Anwar Iqbal saab
saythetruth
Aug 05, 2012 02:55am
If your boss tell you to show up on time all the time and not to steal from the company what do you do. Stealing mean you will be fired and may be jail time (sin in the eyes of your boss) Show up on time all the time, you are occasionally late no problem but if you make it habit and not change it you will be fired. Now apply same concept to religion, Shrik, completely forbidden you commit it and your done. Alcholal, Pork, Zina, Lie, Ccheat all are sins you do it knowingly and continue and don't repent you are done,both type of sins leads to hell fire. Important thing to remember Allah has made Islam easy. Learn about your religion, start reading Quran with translation and you will have better understanding of your religion. How many years we spend getting a PHD and compare it to how much time we spend understanding Quran. I hope this make sense to you.
Aghaata
Aug 05, 2012 03:01am
They do not just have one word, they don’t have three words in English. "ghairat" is one, "muravvat" is another and "lyhaaz" is third. Lets see how these three words have ruined the morals in this country, boosted corruption and lawlessness. "ghairat" is used when you kill a woman a paerson, (honor killing) but this is just one example; there are numerous ways to use "ghairat." "murravat" is used for corruption. A very common example is that the man is said to have no "muravvat" if he is on a position where he can illegally help his friends or his brother in-law but doesn’t. For example he doesn’t give a job to an unqualified brother-in-law or a friend. Everyone would say he has no "muravvat."
Aghaata
Aug 05, 2012 03:01am
And then the word "lyhaz" has a lot to contribute to corruption. A police man letting a man go without giving him a ticket who broke the law saying, “I just have "lyhaz" for your beard.” Or "lyhaz" because the criminal happened to be someone who is from his village or his mohallah, or a member of the same mosque where he goes to. We use words "lyhaz" and "muravvat" to do illegal things for our friends, for someone who is from our village or someone ho has a beard, or sometimes is a friend of a friend of a friend. Yes, they do not have these words In English. Even people on very high position in government have to have "lyhaz" and "muravvat" to help their friends who had helped them in the past where one must have "muravvat" to pay that debt, against the law.
NASAH (USA)
Aug 05, 2012 03:09am
The word is "Roshan Kheyal" -- a lantern of lighted rationality in the dark alley of old country's traditions.
Bakul
Aug 05, 2012 03:09am
Well said
Amn
Aug 05, 2012 03:14am
Character building is important responsibility of parents that shall be done with wisdom. Often we believe that kids are too naive but the first 7 years are most important. We start educating them about our values at the stage when the boat has already sailed. If we work from day one, we can hope inshAllah to raise our children who know their limits and no matter how strong the wind be, they will withstand it.
Sohaib YAHIA
Aug 06, 2012 10:07am
and we, the people of this pure land, do not have words for tolerance, kindness and sympathy in our dictionaries!
kumar
Aug 05, 2012 03:17am
the hindus in usa do not have this religious baggage to lug around. their sons and more so their daughters get absorbed in the mainstream culture and get married to americans black and white and hispanic. the parents may be rue it but live with it.
Kumail
Aug 05, 2012 03:21am
I migrated to sydney when I was 5 and have been living here since. I'm 22 now and never have I gone to a bar, club or night party as opposed to some other pretend-muslims in my age bracket. My parents have thought me values, and I lived to honour those values not for my parents but because for what I think is right and wrong. Just take the issue of drinking, here in aussie you have no idea how sick parents and authorities are becoming of this drinking culture and its social implications on society. Some time ago they only used to talk about curbing the alcohol drinking age limit, now their discussing ways in getting rid of it all together in order to teach youth responsibility. And as for pakistani's lol, their trying to adopt such a culture that even the west is beginning to suspect.
Pradip
Aug 05, 2012 03:26am
Whoa...interesting rationalizing using the theory of hierarchy of sins....is it your invention or you are quoting the Qur-an...just curious?
Kumail
Aug 05, 2012 03:27am
So are u saying that the west is so intellectually and democratically weak that it cannot accept even another secound culture in its society?. What difference does their remain between u and them?.
Well Wisher
Aug 05, 2012 03:36am
Muslims all around the world are responsible for their own downfall. They are suffering from a disease which does not seem to have any cure. Associating everything with religion is absurd. Unless they do not separate religion from everything else, they will never progress in life. Choosing to live in stone age, abiding by primitive cutoms and traditions is the biggest example of this. They are surely but slowly becoming a headache for the entire world.
Kolsat
Aug 05, 2012 03:44am
A great comment on the hypocracy of Muslims.
Andy
Aug 05, 2012 03:47am
Well said!!!
Aldo
Aug 05, 2012 04:41am
Honor without Ghairat!
Roger
Aug 05, 2012 04:51am
Having lived in Malaysia, I can say that there is no 'ghairat' in this Muslim-majority country. Indeed the women are very social and wonderful to interact with - and there are no social pressures on them about going out with men, so long as they are Muslims. While non-Muslims can go out with Muslim girls, the law supports parents who would want the non-Muslim man to marry the Muslim lady. If the man does not convert and the couple get married, the marriage is not recognized. Hence, I have heard of several instances where the law is skirted in many different ways. Also, there are any number of bars that serve liquor and one would often run into Muslims who drink. Apart from that, there are many gay bars in the country . The Malaysians are quite practical. Indonesia, is even more liberal than Malaysia.
S.S.
Aug 05, 2012 05:53am
"Tolerance" is one word that should be right up there in the list given the current state of Pakistani society. Absolutely love this comment. Extremely witty.
Jonzaib
Aug 05, 2012 06:03am
"honor" is the word in English
gmcmissing
Aug 05, 2012 06:32am
A very insightful piece. My observation: Most of the Muslims (South Asians no exception) become more radical and staunch about religion once they come to the United States. People who do not care much about religion back home even start becoming 'good Muslims". The Muslim community should openly debate about it. I liked the portion where someone wondered why people come to the States if they do not like the culture here. You are right: Working in Dubai and making a lot of money is not the same as migrating to the US.
afiasalam
Aug 05, 2012 06:40am
very very pertinent and moving piece Anwar. However, the problem transcends the subcontinental Muslims in per daes. Remember the case of the Sikh family in Canada that has been indited for physical abuse of their teenage.. above the legal age.. daughter simply because she wanted to accept the job as a waitress? This twisted thinking will persist till the confused 2nd generation of expats exists!
Zain
Aug 05, 2012 06:48am
sadly most of the immigrants have failed to mange the balance between native country and new country, religion and western culture.
NNN
Aug 05, 2012 06:49am
I am a born Pakistani but now also a Canadian Citizern. If you simply see the way the Canadian Socioeconomic system works compared to Pakistan or most other Muslim countries its evident that Canada is for more Islamic in their ways and behaviors. Example a decent standard of health care for all, shelter for all, education for all, food for all and most imortantly the same law applies for all. In conclusion if you want to see Muslims come to Pakistan and if you want to see Islam come to Canada.
herry
Aug 05, 2012 06:50am
what ever we say but they are much more progressive , developed and over all they have food for themselves .what we will do of so called ghairat if we are dying out
Hussain Mandviwala
Aug 05, 2012 06:55am
Well there is a word for "Ghairat" and its called "soulless", Ghairat, Shame, Regret, Remorse, Repentance is not the act of the body, it is the act of the soul. In Islam, without the soul, the body has no meaning. It's as good as a Zombie because you think everything you is right and do not repent on your actions or think how it's going to affect you in your afterlife. It the soul that makes up the inner ego, which talks to you and contradicts you on a good or bad decision. And personally, I think Westerners have more Ghairat than us.... Don't confuse Ghairat with shamelessness. Their society is different, their values are different, their religion and thinking is different. You cannot apply Religious principles on people who does not belong to your religion because the person does not have the capacity to understand. Ghairat is also not shame, it is properly described as "soulless"
javed
Aug 05, 2012 06:58am
1st: this is called communication gap between parents and their kids. nothing else.they should tell every single point with their kids haram and halal ,right and wrong n then let on them. thats what their job is. 2nd: this is fact our strong family system deteriorating because of broadcasting western culture on TV(In Pakistan).
ayaz
Aug 05, 2012 07:16am
As soon as the spiritual aspect of life is neglected,the process of decline begins..For every question and matter consult Holy Quran. you all will surely find the satisfying answer.and it is implied to all of the readers of this article.
abdullah
Aug 05, 2012 07:25am
Pathelic article! Hightlighting some disgraceful people and their issues .. I accept we have those confused people but you have such people in every community! The killing of the girl is a personal matter of the people , result of bad upbringing and frustration in the brains ... but why re we making it an issue. The point of highlighting issues is bring awareness on a certain topic but in this case there is not much you can do about. If someone is actually in a state of mind where he is ready to kill his own children then i dont think any articles will be of any help.
Devapratim
Aug 05, 2012 07:27am
Ghairat is relative term. East is east and West is West. You can't have the cake and eat it too. You pay a price for every thing in life. American universities are surely better than Afghan, Pakistani or for that matter Indian universities. So if the kids go to bars they also enjoy quality education. Every generation will face this dilemma.
Yousaf
Aug 05, 2012 07:27am
Please stay in Pakistan and not move to the west if you want to hang on to your own culture and values. You will be doing us in the west a huge favor and yourself a favor too.
fika77
Aug 05, 2012 03:46pm
I agree totally. People not living in Pakistan for the last 10-15 years, don't know how hard even it is in Pakistan to keep your children away from these things. So it's not the country, it's heavily upon parents how they raise their children no matter where they are.
Maddysdad
Aug 05, 2012 07:37am
We kill for honor but we are not honorable people.... Honorable people don't cheat, lie, are not hypocrites, break promises, are not opportunists, etc. etc.
Zeeshan Shamsi
Aug 05, 2012 07:44am
Like the situation in the so called Muslim countries any better...its the values instilled in the kids, and not the country they live in.
hegde
Aug 05, 2012 08:39am
why migrate at all? build a better Pakistan!
khizr
Aug 05, 2012 03:42pm
Excellently put Arman Zain
Amit
Aug 05, 2012 03:43pm
While I agree it is very difficult to do things differently if you are born and brought up in a different culture, I think you are confusing culture with religion. Religion and culture are two different things. Do not confuse them. I think no religion has said if you can walk in with your boyfriend or not. Everyone has to accept that their children will call the country you migrated their motherland, no matter what you do, while you will still be confused about your own motherland where you were actually brought up and the land which gives you food now. It is the parents responsibility that their children adopts to the culture in a sensible way, that is take good things and avoid bad. Then there will be no need to "blame" anybody or find any excuse.
fika77
Aug 05, 2012 03:48pm
Siddiqui sahib, tanz bhi samjha karain :)
Aslam Khan
Aug 05, 2012 03:53pm
Another related experience. A vvery pious (read religious) friend of mine came to USA and requested me to take him to a srtip club(exoctic dancers!!) and I being an unpioused muslim obliged him . In the club I requested 2 beers and offered him....and guess what he said "I dont drink alcohol, its haram"
Amused
Aug 05, 2012 04:17pm
Pakistanis in west are confused desis. They do not know how to retain their Muslim identity in a western society. To mix with the locals, they go to clubs and drink but by doing so they are just losing their Muslim identity. May be they should give up this hypocrisy and just realize that they should not call themselves Muslims if they dont practice Islam fully and are ashamed of being labelled as Muslims. They should not create their own half-cooked Islam where they obey certain rules but neglect the other teachings of Islam.
miriam62batul
Aug 05, 2012 04:33pm
Interesting way of showing disrespect for origin....self-hate is one of leading Pakistani negative traits...there are several positive traits too....like charity, sharing,friendliness, helpfulness, survival, family...the list can be much longer... Time we put a stop this negative trait asap.... It does not matter so much where we choose to live, it is more important to subscribe to revealed values that are eternal and universal ....rather than to the man made values....important to make effort to get 'Ilm' to educate ourselves , know who we are....transfer those benefits and be useful members of our chosen societies... We need not hide ourselves..We need to KNOW ourselves!...IQBAL says, " We are Muslims, the whole world is our homeland." To be a Muslim is not an ethnic identity!...
vishnu
Aug 05, 2012 04:41pm
Honestly, 90% muslims from India,Pakistan and Bangladesh residing in USA are hypocrites.
@shahg64
Aug 06, 2012 01:09pm
Is there a word in Urdu that means non interference in other peoples lives, and worrying instead about your own? Why are we so quick to judgement upon others and not ourselves? Why does it matter to us if someone drinks wine or eats pork? What does that have to do with us? Did Allah command Muslims to worry about each others gunah instead of our own, or did HE say, you will each have to answer to ME for your sins? I dont care whether any muslim drinks wine or water, it is me who I must watch and guide, each soul will have to answer for their own conduct, so the writer need not worry about others.
El Cid
Aug 05, 2012 06:05pm
Indulging all the harram and alcohol of the world will not replace a father's protective concern and care...nor the comfort of your mother's loving fervent prayer--as guardian angels summoned, surround you. Just stroll streets some late Saturday night...around UK pubs. See the reeking half naked drunks, men and women, vomiting their guts out, sprawled in the gutter. In the US occasionally bullet riddled gore, police sirens, add to this early dawn scenario. Thanks and Praise be to Allah for the Grand Design, Gracious Mercies, and small kindnesses...as we enter and exit this arena—unscathed.
Muhammad
Aug 05, 2012 06:22pm
That is a very good observation. I have discussed this with many of my friends about that. We believe it is not about Islam or any other religion. People become "strict religious" only because they are afraid to lose CONTROL here in the West. I mean control over their culture, control over their families, kids etc. This is a POWER issue, not a religious issue. Many of the immigrants see strict "religious" practices (or ritualistic practices) the only way to control their families.
Muhammad
Aug 05, 2012 06:23pm
I go to Jumma prayeres at a masjid where, in Khutba, Imam only translates Quran (does not interpret it for us), provides us with a little background of the verses and lets us interpret it. What I have learned from this is that Quran can be interpreted in several different ways. Allah gives us guidelines how to live life. As long as we follow those guidelines, we are good muslims. I believe most of the western countries' laws do not violate Quranic guidelines. As far as rituals are concerned, those should be left to the individuals. Our problem is that we are focused too much on rituals and certain insignificant issues such as sighting of the moon, "ghairat" (I'm sure many of the readers will not consider this as an insignificant!..) etc. Let's understand what Quran really means and live life the way we want, as long as it does not violate the basic Islamic principles. Let's stop debates on trivial details that will only create more rifts among Muslims.
Javed
Aug 05, 2012 06:31pm
Jam Sahib,I entirely agree with you.I lived and still live in posh areas of Pakistan.Come and see there single young boys and girls having all sorts of parties,drinking,dancing,what to talk of drugs.Married women are not excluded.I had also been to Amirica for some time.There a found Pakistani girls brought up within normal norms of family and later on living a happy,decent married life.Therefore,it all depends on the atmosphere of the family by itself.I agree with you such problems come into families from half educated parents thrown into entirely different culture and confusing,both the parents and children.In western culture,it's needs a lot of depth,tact and undestanding to tell a high school child why not to attend school parties,from where all the trouble starts.
A Parent
Aug 05, 2012 06:45pm
Your children are not you anymore than you are your parents or your brother or sister. Most parents hold their children to an impossible standard, believing (hoping) that they will not make the mistakes of others. I believe of all religions the Amish may have the best approach. For those who do not know, these are a people who sucessfully live both within and apart from the larger culture in North America. They reject many things, technologies, that are "Modern" but do have the ability, in local groups (20-40 families), to adjust and adopt new technology. In this they are very selective and it usually takes a generational change for this to happen. When their children are starting to reach maturity, and to show the greatest curiosity about this other world, they are allowed a year to explore and see for themselves which is where they belong. Most return to the way of life in which they were raised with a better understanding of who they are and the world around them. Those who do not return are not rejected but still loved by their families, even if they are no longer part of the community. This appears to be a successful approach since their numbers are growing. A 2008 study suggested their numbers have increased to 227,000,[6] and in 2010 a study suggested their population had grown by 10% in the past two years to 249,000. According to Wikipedia, "During adolescence rumspringa ("running around") in some communities, nonconforming behavior that would result in the shunning of an adult who had made the permanent commitment of baptism, may meet with a degree of forbearance." - "A degree of forbearance" - Useful for all parents, and societies, when dealing with the young who are learning to be adults.
Rahman
Aug 05, 2012 07:06pm
The blogger is wrong! There is Ghairat in the western society as well. You hear about murders of women by men in the western countries all the time, if a man thinks a wife or a girl friend is sleeping with another man. But, they call it jealousy, not honor killing. In fact, that goes on in a much higher frequency in the western world, particularly USA, than the honor killings by Muslims. While nobody should condone murder and it is prohibited in Islam as well, one has to analyze the agony these parents must be going through finding themselves powerless when trying to raise their child according to their belief and culture. They must feel the whole world is against them when the school teachers, child's friends, child's friend's parents and the government are telling them how to raise their children. They only tell Muslims to do so, but never tell the fundamental Christians or Jews, who are doing exactly the same thing. By the way, in Britain and Canada, Hindus and Sikhs have gone through the same trial and tribulations and there have been many instances when the parents of the two aforementioned religions have engaged in the same type of behavior. The blogger tried to make a point, by asking a question "Why is their ‘ghairat’ always linked to women? Why not men? ". But failed to give an answer. The answer is: when women go out and then sleep with men they get pregnant...men don't. Guess who ends up dealing with the issues? Parents. Muslim girls while they want to experience the western culture and feel emancipated, they don't have the where with all to deal with issues that result from their shenanigans. They dump it all on their parents. Western girls don't do that...they deal with their issues. The other big reason for the Muslim girls to stay clear from western vises is that if they get too deep into the western culture, they cant find suitable Muslim husbands. Because, when they are getting married, they want a non drinker, non smoker and a hard working husband, but men of this description are not interested in women who have crossed the line. I am a moderate, and have lived in the USA for 40 years and have raised two girls who are now young ladies. They are modern, educated, pure and well balanced in their approach to life. They practice Islam without the dogma of cultural adulterants.
A parent
Aug 05, 2012 07:15pm
You say you live in the west. If that is so and you follow the news you surly must understand that western men (husbands, brothers, uncles, etc.) do not kill their daughters for dancing, listening to western music, or even, horror of horrors, having a boyfriend. In fact, because in the west, the idea of arranged marriages are viewed as akin to being sold into slavery, most young people, and their parents are hoping for a "love match" (A Korean term that translates quite well into English - The Koreans are steadily moving away from arranged marriages, by the way.). This is the culture here in the west and I do not think you can fully insulate a child from it as they are growing up. The hope for true love is a strong attraction.
Shafaq A.
Aug 05, 2012 07:20pm
@Dilawer: "English words which can not be translated in Urdu" Urdu is richer than English as it has a greater propensity to absorb foreign languages into it. After all that was its genesis. Have you considered that your own ability to translate, as your sentence structure and composition suggests, may be the limiting factor here?
masood
Aug 05, 2012 07:36pm
Did you notice there is no such word in ISLAM, why because this word is useful word to subjugate helpless women for these peoples,Sadly these same people are BE-GHAIRAT enough to eye other women without a hint of self respect.
Rahman
Aug 05, 2012 07:42pm
You do have a point. But, two wrongs don't make a right. Ghairat and honor are things all males must cherish. Because without these two male traits, our existence is meaningless. Men are the protectors of women. It says so in the Quran. We are Muslims for a reason. If we can't act, live or behave like a Muslim then why call ourselves Muslims. Western culture has decomposed in many ways and one of the things that has been affected the most is the sanctity and purity of women. Please remember, if you live around garbage, you don't have to bring it inside of your house.
Susan Naek
Aug 05, 2012 07:42pm
@ Gerry D'Cunha: Your question appears to be based on a lack of knowledge, or prejudice. For example: The Jews also eat 'Halal' but call it 'kosher'. Moses/David/Jesus/Muhammad all ate Kosher/Halal. Only Saint Paul was against it.Thus Kosher, which is somewhat more complicated in its preparation, as it includes vegetables and salt, is available everywhere in the West, as Halal too will soon be. So there is no restriction in following Muslim/Jewish dietary laws, except perhaps in certain areas of the Indian Sub-Continent where beef is banned to some extent.
Ali
Aug 06, 2012 01:52pm
Siddiqui Sir you totally missed the point. He was not talking about literal meanings. His point is that all those things exist in the West and not in the EAST especially in Pakistani culture and He's very much so correct.
abc
Aug 05, 2012 08:41pm
Good observation. I live in Germany, and there is a huge hijab wearing turkish population. I also, got the oppertunity to visit Istanbul and Ankara for my work. and I got really ammused by the irony. People in Istanbul are very friendly, liberal and possessed almost same values, as most europeans. But, once they immegrate to germany, somehow they become born again muslims.
_oatc_
Aug 05, 2012 09:46pm
The only western men who kill their daughters are those who kill their whole family and then kill kill themselves.
Sameer Ashraf
Aug 05, 2012 10:39pm
May Allah SWT have mercy on situation of Muslims. Bringing up your kids is a much bigger challenge here in US. May Allah SWT give TOUFEEQ to all muslim parents to teach their kids about Islam with their own example.
sri1ram
Aug 05, 2012 11:04pm
Siddiqui sahab, Can you tell us the Urdu translations for irony, sarcasm, sense of humor and hypocrisy too? Cheers, Riz
American Desi
Aug 05, 2012 11:48pm
Beautifully written about the hypocrisy due to denial of modern reality
NASAH (USA)
Aug 06, 2012 12:38am
If you are a real Muslim confident of your Muslim-hood -- you don't need to 'practice' religion -- you already know it.
sana fatima
Aug 06, 2012 01:34am
great writing Anwar Iqbal
Yanti
Aug 06, 2012 02:30am
when a person choose to live in a certing type of community must accept the whole packgage not just select opportunities for economical gain. So the consequances are the we just saw in England. Think twice before moving families to west. Can't go against the society where a person choose to live.
Naeem
Aug 06, 2012 03:34am
...and who says these issues exist only in the USA or in the western world? There is everything going on in muslim country, perhaps sometimes not so much in the open.
MKB
Aug 06, 2012 04:32am
Umer, what wrong Raika has said? This is the problem. You do not want to assimilate with culture, language & customs of the country you have migrated. It sparks clash, suspicion, enmity & threat to the indigenous people. There are many other religious groups migrated to the west from Asia, but they do not face such problem & have better living condition, economic ststus than Muslims.
MKB
Aug 06, 2012 04:44am
That is the reason they are much progressed & proper than Pakistan
Foha
Aug 06, 2012 04:45am
A well written article and really points out issues of South Asian Muslims. But let me point out one thing that somethings are not double standards it is just the way of interpreting Islam. The best example would be drinking and not eating pork. Quran has mentioned quite a few times about pork being forbidden (haram) but it never mentions alcohol to be forbidden thus those Muslims who follow Quran properly and are not stringent Muslims know that sometimes socially drinking is not a sin.
ahmad butt
Aug 06, 2012 04:46am
I thought there is a word, most frequently used by Musharraf to defend himself for all his misgivings, and the word is "dignity".
ZAFFAR AL QADRI
Aug 06, 2012 05:49am
ham sab ko allah hidayat ata farmaye
M Younis
Aug 06, 2012 06:47am
Loved reading it. Very insightful and well written. This is a bitter truth or our people.
Amir
Aug 06, 2012 07:02am
Yes they do have a word for ghairat in english. Its 'Honor'
gul khan
Aug 06, 2012 07:32am
I appreciate you
Manish Sharma
Aug 06, 2012 07:41am
GO Veg, everything is halal.
Salman
Aug 06, 2012 07:45am
What is the lesson in this? A) Since he eats halal chicken, he should also stay away from beer OR B) Since he drinks beer, he should stop insisting on Halal chicken as well ??
Salman
Aug 06, 2012 07:50am
:) You missed the satire in his comment. He meant, just like in west they dont "have" ghairat, similarly, all those words (infact, values), do not appear in our society.
aanwar
Aug 06, 2012 08:02am
Must say a Brilliant Master-piece,true depiction of today's artificial effort of saving our muslim culture. Nowerdays it is a shame that our deeds and preachings as muslims are truly very different from each other.My personal feeling is, if we want to save our skin, we will Blame the West for everything.Self correction can be done as most of us are sane individuals with basic education. Hence we can ourselves read,ponder and correct our selves only if WE want too, but ''NO'' why should WE???? it is easy to blame the others.__ And If the ''ghariat' exsists today why search in the english language why should we not search it in depth within our own selves first!
Salman
Aug 06, 2012 08:20am
It does appear so, but in the referred story, did you hear the mother saying: "end it here"?
W.Sarmad Khan
Aug 06, 2012 09:55am
Every society has its own problems. You can not say that western societies are bad and eastern societies are good or vice versa. Economics form social institutions. The life style is fast paced in western societies and both parents work to maintain a standard of living. This results in children being neglected and host of problems start here. Eastern societies have double standards. Most people accept western daughter-in- laws but very reluctant in accepting western son-in laws.. However; moral values in eastern culture still exist and here we are better off than western culture. Respect for elders, care for neighbors, no pre-marital sex, drinking, and neglect of parents in old age are some of the things that eastern culture should be proud of its heritage.
A. Khan
Aug 06, 2012 09:50am
Story started off well with the argument about ghairat. I was expecting it be discussed in more depth but it just meanders and finally fizzles out. Must do better !
Ahsan Rasheed
Aug 07, 2012 05:43am
little bit of this and little bit of that doesnt work, you either have 1 or 2. The pros and cons of the society shud be kept in mind while making a decision to move abraod, and stick to ur decision for life time.
Jauhar Shah
Aug 06, 2012 09:54am
How usual! One Pakistani judging others. (Oops, and now I'm indulging in it as well).
Ali
Aug 06, 2012 03:51pm
I am a pakistani living in the west. A fellow pakistani friend came to me the other day. He wife was pregnant. He said " yaar dua karo larka ho warna pakistan waapis jaana parhay ga". My suggestion: if you spend most your time trying to find out the correct length of your shalwar so you can get into the paradise, you are better off staying in saudia or pakistan
Ahsan Rasheed
Aug 07, 2012 05:37am
Need to sit down and set the priorities, what comes first, religion, culture, society, ethnicity, etc to solve the confusion we have in our minds.
Ali Ahsan
Aug 06, 2012 07:06pm
True story from Norway: Some Pakistani Muslims were enjoying a beer at a bar one evening. A friend who joined them later brought a pizza for all of them. The guy on his third beer eagerly enquired if the pizza was halal. "As halal as your beer", came the reply. Precisely because of this hypocrisy, I am now at peace as an atheist.
ACFP
Aug 06, 2012 11:35pm
If words could describe people or cultures then what is the Urdu ( or any language spoken by so called Muslims ) word for integrity? Does that mean Urdu speaking people have no integrity? Words like Ghairat are used by cowards who hide behind the emotional baggage carried by such words. Hypocrisy has a perfect translation in Urdu and other languages spoken by Muslims and it is called "Munafiqat". There is plenty of that found in all countries inhabited by people who called themselves Muslim.
Asma
Aug 07, 2012 12:57am
I don't think Gerry was talking only about the literal halaal/haram debate. Susan, I think you took this a bit too literally.
Talha
Aug 07, 2012 04:16am
agree to u sal!
Rao
Aug 07, 2012 04:38am
You have experience of very rare community, I live in USA and when you said, ... "Most Pakistanis in American will not eat pork but they will comfortably gulp down a bottle of beer or a glass of wine." I was surprised which USA you are talking about, Muslims do not drink bear or any kind of alcohol here. It is very very rare, same as in Pakistan or anywhere in the world Muslims drink bear but that is very rare.
Nazar
Aug 07, 2012 03:19pm
Azad Zehniyat
Viz
Aug 07, 2012 08:28pm
"Ghairat" is a cultural word and has no religious bearing. The problem is, due to media the fringe issues of the societies are brought front and center. Honor killing is one of those taboos of the societies that took place but were not talked about in the past. Again the age old question is the society represented in media or media is molding the society. There are bad people and good people in every society, honor killing has taken place in all societies but due to renewed interest in Islam post 911 all the ills of Islamic society are being scrutinized.
Viz
Aug 07, 2012 08:29pm
As for "hypocrites" yes it seems Muslims have a predominant number. The reason the stricter the rules the more human psyche will try to dodge these rules. And it seems even Muslims have become, instead of surrender to will of Allah the worshiper of the rising Sun i.e. the current western values that are derived from Darwinian Theory of evolution. The whole world is tilting toward opportunistic behavior every “man for himself” and “you live only once”. As for South Asian immigrant trying to balance the religion and value they cherish to this new world, it is a struggle but not impossible. If you look at the western society with an open mind there is a big overlap between what these immigrants value and the local values, meaning hard work, decency and respect of human life.
Hasaan
Aug 07, 2012 08:40pm
This "ghairat" you write abt has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with culture.. that is why hindu, sikh, muslims all suffer from these kind of killings and forced marriages in the West. The issue of Islam arises when a Muslim girl wants to marry a non-muslim man, and is also often dealt with in the same manner. It's all about how to raise your children and teach them right from wrong and boundaries they should not cross... but you have to trust them then and that is where most of the parents fail.