Dawn News

The great deceit

It’s not like I choose to always write when the president goes missing but as luck would have it, those are the only times worth speaking out. Where I have often called for the president and prime minister - sometimes receiving a not-so-supportive response – this time I believe my call is completely legit. After all, Osama bin Laden was killed (at least that’s what the Americans said).

But first, I’ll focus on our ‘allies’ a bit. As President Obama started talking about how that “bright September day was darkened”, American people began rejoicing and the scenes of celebration were similar to those I witnessed on St.Patrick’s Day while in university – except, instead of green accessories, there was a whole lot of stripes and stars involved here.

But that’s okay. Why shouldn’t the Americans celebrate? After all, nearly 3,000 of them were killed because of this man and his network – it only made sense to run outside the White House with the US flag wrapped around their heads.

Did they for a second stop and ask for proof? No why would they, Obama saved the day (and his votes) – that’s all that mattered. I wish us Pakistanis had that kind of blind trust on our leaders’ statements. I mean think back to Hakimullah Mehsud – Interior Minister Rehman Malik killed him a couple of times and once even created his twin in Afghanistan… so I guess it’s only natural for us not to believe anything coming out of our leadership (the fact that they didn’t say anything at all yesterday, is a different story). But wait, why don’t think the Americans think Iraq for a second. WMD anyone? And even Afghanistan? A decade there and still the most wanted man was found in Pakistan’s backyard. Oops? Doesn’t the US public want to question anything? Or was “DNA confirms Osama dead” enough? He was the most wanted man in the world, responsible for the death of thousands! And what did the US forces do? Secretly kill him and dump him in the sea. Seriously? As Obama was promising brighter days ahead, no one seemed to be concerned with ‘what next’, because we all do know that this ‘war’ is far being over.

Osama has been killed several times over the years, however, this time was different because we actually had visual proof….. of the ‘mansion’….the helicopter….the blood-stained floors…. Yes, that should be enough now to know that this time he really was killed.

Assuming there are no loopholes in the US’ great hunt story and going by what supposedly happened yesterday, fact remains that Osama was killed in Pakistan. Not a cave in some tribal border area but right here in Abbottabad. Obama spoke at around 8:30 am local time. Shortly after, Afghan President Karzai came out and said something which pretty much sounded like ‘it wasn’t me … it wasn’t me’ and then the Indians seized the opportunity and spoke along the lines of ‘told you so… told you so’ – so basically everyone got their turn at riding the Bash Pakistan bandwagon. And for good reason of course, yes, yes, no denying we do support terrorists, quite right.

So here comes my favourite part, while Osama was dying and Obama was doing the happy dance, where were you Pakistani leaders? Haven’t you embarrassed us enough already? Until about 12:00pm yesterday, there was no word from Pakistan – shortly after noon, the Foreign Office woke up and had some nice bits and pieces of information to share. Still no Gilani. No Zardari. No Kayani. No Pasha.

Somewhere in the afternoon (after a nice sleep-in perhaps) Prime Minister Gilani came out only to say ‘errr, I don’t have any details yet…’. Okay then. Why didn’t we have any details when Obama specifically in his address mentioned that this couldn’t have been achieved without Pakistan’s ‘cooperation’? And what about Pakistan’s mainstream media? Normally we are quick to jump and question everything but this time, our televisions ran tickers of statements coming in from the US while the local headlines focused on PML-Q’s oath-taking at 7:00pm. And then of course there were clips of the ‘mansion’ and the blood-stained floors inside. Where were all your hard-hitting questions Pakistani media – or do you only reserve those for our own leadership?

The US has a lot to answer but so far they have been giving us a great story, but what about our own government and establishment? We have nothing to celebrate for. We cannot take out our flags and run across the country because chances are some suicide bomber somewhere will mar that celebration anyway. Instead, we have a lot to worry about now (once again assuming Osama was killed yesterday). The al Qaeda backlash, the ISI’s supposed intelligence failure, the Pakistani leadership’s silence and the media’s confusion. As for the world hating us a bit more, I don’t think that’ll be a real problem – those who need to get their tickets out of here, normally do manage to find a way to do so anyway. For those of us who are stuck here meanwhile, ask questions. Ask why Osama was there, why no one knew, how the US knew, why we stayed silent and most of all, why do we never ever cease to disappoint ourselves.

As an after thought, also do ask why more than anyone else failing or insulting us, it is our own security establishment that takes the cake each time.

Shyema Sajjad is the Deputy Editor at Dawn.com


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Shyema Sajjad is a former Dawn staffer.

She tweets @ShyemaSajjad


The views expressed by this writer and commenters below do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.


Comments (303) Closed



Auranzeb
May 03, 2011 01:07pm
Great analysis. We should not make civilian leadership as scapegoats. All of us know where power lies and who are informed! Let us be fair and take on those agencies, army who have been source of thsi emabbarasment. If Britian can put their Prime Minister infront of investigation Committee our Generals are not so holy to get escape.
EZ
May 03, 2011 01:08pm
Before yesterday I used to be proud of my intelligence but No Sir not anymore,any tom,dick and harry can come jam our radars and take away our nukes...I am scared for myself,my family and my country for the first time in my life FOR REAL.
Mehek
May 03, 2011 01:31pm
Love everything about this BLOG ! You are amazing.
bpshah
May 03, 2011 01:36pm
There are many unanswered questions? How three Helicopters come into Pakistani airspace unannounced? Isn't a military cantonment town alert enough even at night, when the operation takes 40 minutes? Would not some Pakistani Military personel be alerted? How the helicopters go back all the way back to Afghanistan without being detected? Why this hurry to dispose off Bin Laden's body? Is the US going to show the proof to the world?
Asad Shairani
May 03, 2011 01:40pm
You've hit the bull's eye with this one.
tarina
May 03, 2011 01:46pm
Very nice article, - I am an Indian, I feel for the people of Pakistan. But come on - you seriously don't think that the ISI/military was not involved in putting him there. He has been living there under their protection. 16 feet high walls, near the military academy ...... !!!!!!
DK
May 03, 2011 01:50pm
Pak leadership “embarrassed us enough”? Pak leadership is afraid, afraid of one part of establishment - Army & ISI. You are intelligent - but don't want to see reality :-)
Parvez
May 03, 2011 01:51pm
The establishment comes out of this with serious egg on their face.
Ben ALmeida
May 03, 2011 02:01pm
Even I am quite surprised by the reaction of the American public, they completely trust their government. Once it was announced by the leadership that he was dead, they just blindly believed him.
Fruit Forbidden
May 03, 2011 02:03pm
According to American officials, they've been contemplating on releasing a picture of the deceased but they say "It's very Very graphical!"
Mahmood
May 03, 2011 02:11pm
Pakistani government has lost even a shred of credibility, if it had any left! Zardari posts an article in Washington Post (no doubt written by a professional), but has no statement or explanation for the nation over which he presides? Nation has been emabrrassed. The govt should be ashamed for its incompetence and they way this incident has been handled!
VALALE SUBBANNA
May 03, 2011 02:13pm
Pakisthani political leadership & military have betrayed the people.
Vaqar
May 03, 2011 02:23pm
I think we shouldn't forget that most of the intelligence deals under these circumstances and situations are done "under the table". There's no doubt that our intelligence and govt. knew all of it. After spending almost all of our budget on the defence our intelligence cannot fail us. But yes I do believe that the information is only shared with the media and people to the extent to which it should be shared. May be less, but not more.
Kamran
May 03, 2011 02:27pm
Brilliant summary - the sad part is that nothing will change even after whatever has happened yesterday and more so over last 15 years. Looks like after politicians, social morality and economy now its the turn of ISI and pak army which (I believe) was the hope of every pakistani that whatever happens these two institutions will not crumble down and will stand up every time the country needs them and they certainly had the history to claim that trust. But, Alas! Its over now for them as well. They lost the battle to CIA agents - from rayman davis episode to osama's so called killing. Its just painful simply painful.
Sohail
May 03, 2011 02:33pm
After Osama"s incident, how on earth we Pakistani can have faith in our intelligence agency particularly ISI , Army , Air force , Navy. That intruders will be stopped to enter our country , the sovereignty of Pakistan is at stake . The serious true citizen of Pakistan should bow down to Allah & pray to protect our Nuclear asserts and pray for getting rid of the present ruler. The way our rulers and defense forces are promoting their credibility, days are not far we will be denuclearize very soon either by USA or India.
Doritos
May 03, 2011 02:50pm
You seem shocked and confused every time deputy Sb....Pakistani officials are controlled by the US of A! They say jump, we say how high?! ITS OBVIOUS! Don't worry though, the tables will turn some day. you just keep us aware with your writing. and of course entertained with your sarcasm. (You just had to find a way to shove in Rehman Malik huh....hahha) Also you had me laughing at the "it wasn't me..it wasn't me" "i told you so...i told you so" Keep it up!
Shaikh Mohommad
May 03, 2011 02:59pm
The news was discussed on SKY TV. Its Security Editor [now in Tripoli] said amongst other things that Pakistan Army control 60% of the economy of the country. All this discussion is focussed on Pakistan Army which really controls the country. We people have no say who comes and goes in our country.
farooq
May 03, 2011 03:03pm
i dnt think that ISI nd pakistan leadershp was unaware of this operationn...its impossible....there have been about 20 major operations against terrorist groups and all are conducted by ISI...... atleast we have to trust our intelligence agencies and armed forces. there is no expectation from our civilian leadership.
sanjeev
May 03, 2011 03:08pm
@ sohail the world knows how A.Q. Khan acquired the so called nuclear assets of Pak.....
Arnold Nesselroth
May 03, 2011 03:12pm
I have to say that I feel for the vast majority of Pakistanis, who have been deceived by their own security apparatus. It is indeed very hard to imagine, how Bin Laden could hide in Abottabad without assistance by senior security and intelligence staff. The US operation - no matter how morally justified - has yet only increased the chasm between the US and Pakistan: it not only represents an obvious violation of International Law and Pakistan's territorial rights, but also clearly illustrates the obvious lack of trust between these two "allies". Yet it is in Pakistan's interest to co-operate with the Obama administration. Should the US' support for Pakistan fade and instead turn towards a US-Indian "entente", Islamabad would be likely to suffer most.
tim
May 03, 2011 03:12pm
this is not good news for pakistani govt and agencies. according to foreign media, pakistan has some serious questions to answer. US congressmen and senators are now openly questioning the credibility and competency of pakistani agencies. this entire episode doesnt seem a nice omen for things to come lets hope for the best
Sarmad
May 03, 2011 03:18pm
Cannot agree more. The dilemma is that we never get the answers. There are always questions left unanswered in these type of situations. To be true I never felt embarrassed before the way i felt yesterday. It is indeed shameful.
P N Eswaran
May 03, 2011 03:31pm
You are scared At least now. Better late than never
Khalid
May 03, 2011 03:36pm
Most of Pakistanis find it easy to blame Civilian governments. But the fact is that most of the foreign policy and security issues are fully controlled by the establishment. If civilians try to take control of these issues, they will be out the same day. It is said that the RADAR system was jammed before the operation. This gives an ample proof that the capability of our security forces is far from good.
kkrishna
May 03, 2011 03:49pm
According to Pakistan government Dawood Ibrahim, the most wanted criminal, wanted in India is not in Pakistan. This is a good opportunity for decent Pakistanis to check the credibility of their government.
MMS
May 03, 2011 03:55pm
After all this time I have now come to the conclusion, the Pakistan Army is more currupt than any civilian government that we have voted in. General Kayani and the ISI must be questioned in public courts. Also, how come our airspace was breached by helicopters? Were the personal all asleep. If they coulsd come up to Islamabad so easily, then for India to come to Islamabad is a joke.
Anwar
May 03, 2011 03:56pm
Safe house is built within 2 KM from Pakistan's West Point. ISI does NOT know. Next Army does NOT know how to use Radar that we seem to have bought. Three or four enemy's helicopters (with 10-20 people) come to Abbotabad, completely unchecked. They kill and take the dead body away without any challange. We got to fire every body in the Army and ISI and start from scratch.
FiicnFiik
May 03, 2011 04:01pm
Farooq Bhai, your innocence or naivety is mind boggling... Trust the intelligence agency/armed forces? Their only interest is to ensure their power base keeps expanding. Just like any other agency in any other country. In this instance : if ISI did not know where Osama was holed up, it is incompetent. If it did and did not reveal his whereabouts (as seems to be the case), it is an action deserving of most serious condemnation for it has brought shame to Pakistan.
Samarpan, India
May 03, 2011 04:08pm
It is a brilliant piece of writing. Rarely seen in India. Congrats to Shyema Sajjad.
Nikhat
May 03, 2011 04:17pm
I totally second you. Kiyani and Pasha need to be brought to trial for that matter. And the case should be filed against them from us. Let' do it!!!
asad
May 03, 2011 04:21pm
TRUE. look at how they manufactured the picture of his dead face : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/02/osama... I believe they will be trying to make more of such photos and then release them to the media to further their false credibility ...
Indian
May 03, 2011 04:27pm
My friend. America is a first world democratic country and you have to accept that politicians there don't fool their own masses like they do in Pakistan. There is pseudo democracy in pakistan which actually is controlled by corrupt army and ISI. The common people of Pakistan have been cheated and failed by their rulers since its inception, hence there is huge trust deficit between rulers and masses. If pakistan had a strong democracy they would also have trusted their leaders as willingly as they do in USA.
fatima
May 03, 2011 04:27pm
If the US forces killed Osama, we are yet to see proof. The US says Osama was buried at sea. Which sea? The nearest sea spot from Abbottabad is at least three hours by air. So, are they admitting that their helicopter gun ships were in the air space of Pakistan without the knowledge of that country's military? If so, there is every reason to believe Pakistan's government has failed to protect its sovereign space. President Zardari, who claims he was unaware of Osama's presence in his country, should resign and hand over powers to the US president Obama, since logically speaking he seems to know more about what is going on in Pakistan and has the means to control the events in that country.
zubaida nabi bux
May 03, 2011 04:27pm
what a shame when our soverinity was challanged,our so called leaders were busy dodging God by starting with His name and reading what they didnot mean and fooling this nation with so called national govt.is there no way of getting rid of them? we are stuck with scoundrals.
Rahim
May 03, 2011 04:29pm
How about a conspiracy theory. Here's what I've got. Suppose they did not kill him. It would be pretty simple to blow away one of his guards with a point blank shot to the face removing any identifying features. Then they could take OBL back to Guantanamo or mainland US or wherever and use any means of torture or any other chemical means they have at their disposal to extract useful information about the terrorist network from him. Remember, the US is in supposed to be in full conformity to the Geneva Convention so they cannot use any form of torture on a captured prisoner but it would be a different thing altogether if they were to torture a dead person (or one who was actually supposed to be dead) whose death had been announced publicly by the US President himself as having been verified by means of DNA testing. As for our leadership, suffice to say they are deplorable to say the least.
Putar
May 03, 2011 04:46pm
My dear sir, The nuclear assets which you are talking are not assets but liabilities as you must be spending billions on them and getting nothing in return. Both India & Pakistan are developing countries with similar problems of illetracy , Hunger & lack of basic health facilities. Instead of spending money on these duds we should divert this money towards what our people badly need
Anil
May 03, 2011 04:47pm
Best thing for pakistan is that with the complete incompetance shown by the security forces and so much egg on every pakistani's face, they wont have the heart or the guts to take over thru a coup. SO democracy has been saved and zardari/Gilani can heave a huge sigh of relief!!!!
BlackBIrd
May 03, 2011 04:49pm
Shyema,I don't usually do this but i'm happy to say.. Thank You for writing this article. You've done a fine job. Cheers.
Saj
May 03, 2011 05:23pm
As if they CARE!
shams
May 03, 2011 05:25pm
Where was the Pak Army, Airforce and Navy... ??
Amarnath
May 03, 2011 05:27pm
Farooq, for all the bad deeds of your army and ISI, you are blaming the civilian govt. In this matter I reserve some sympathy for your civilian govt. even if it is inefficient. Pak army's/ISI's was obliged to come out with a statement immediately after osama was killed, since it has a stronger say in matters of Osama. However it is silent and letting the civilian leadership handle the mess that it created.
Zuhaib Hassan Mastoi
May 03, 2011 05:32pm
Thats true Shyema Sajjad how many years have passed since the independence,what these leaders of parties are doing just playing with the poor and illiterate public, Allah is watching over them what type of tyranny these ruling elites are doing in the country. No one is sincere with Pakistan and its public and they are just playing political game.........
Asif
May 03, 2011 05:34pm
Basically both the Pakistani government and the American administration are corrupt and dishonest. Their alliance is based on their specific needs rather than trust and love for each other. Any dealing between the two will be always be dodgy and shady. Both will try to double cross each other. Both deserve each other.
faisal
May 03, 2011 05:47pm
shyema, being a member of print media you people bear huge responsibility of reflecting the truth to the nation as well as securing the nation from haphazard approaches of agencies waging media war over already confused and depressed masses of pakistan. Be assured that pakistani security establishment is totally focused over integrity of pakistani soil but the problem is that they have to fight on so many battle grounds (mainly due to incompetence of our own government) therefore they can also make some mistakes on which pakistani public and media has to back them up. i just want to ask a question from all those so called journalists cum analysts who have been declaring that pakistani radars were jammed by US helis, have they ever visited a pakistani radar deployment and surely they had never then how they can say that these systems were jammed. these people dont know even a little bit about radar technicalities and just making fun of pak defence by saying radars were jammed. If it would be so easy then for what india and israel are waiting for and why they have never tried a single sortie over pakistan air space till date?
J Koons
May 03, 2011 05:49pm
It is a wake up call for all Pakistanis. Time to take a firm stand against ALL radicals and fundamentalists. What the average Pakistani wants is a decent job, good schools for our children and basic facilities like hospitals etc. Let all Pakistanis stand up against the radical Taliban and kick out terrorists from the country.
Amarnath
May 03, 2011 05:57pm
Rightly said. The civilian leadership should be spared and be given some breathing space. The Pak army and ISI should be taken to task for all the mess they have created. For all those Pakistanis who complain of an inefficient and corrupt civilian leadership, I can only say, look at the countries around you. Almost all of the civilian leadership are as corrupt as yours. Our region is not yet mature that it could produce a clean enough civilian administration, we need another 50 to 100 years to get there. But we must try harder.
Allan DeSouza
May 03, 2011 06:03pm
The very fact that the soverinity was challanged, shows that the US know how in competent and corrupt the Pakistan gov't is. They don't trust anyone as there has been too many leaks previously. Best option was to handle the mission by themselves. That's why they were sucessful this time. Instead of being critical of any other gov't one should clean their own house first.
Foha Rafiq
May 03, 2011 06:06pm
At last someone is asking the right questions!
Raza
May 03, 2011 06:08pm
I hate to break this to you but you should read the statement of our Army general who categorically stated that "We must not sacrifice (our) dignity for Prosperity" i dont know if "we" meant the Army or the people, if people who is he to decide, Shame really!!!
vasan
May 03, 2011 06:11pm
Amazing: Bowing down to Allah to protect Nuclear assets and not the country or people. What a mindset Mr Sohail. Nuclear assets are not going to protect you from terrorists.
Raza
May 03, 2011 06:16pm
Hold on a second here, where are you coming up with all these futile arguments from. talking about integrity, Pakistan has no Integrity left man...wake up and smell the coffee, its been more than 60 years already. As for incompetence of the Government, who is repsonsible for that the Army because if the Government is capable enough first thing it will do is get the Army under its control which is the case in any democracy and such a scenario will never be approved by the Army. So my dear fellow country man the square one in our instance is and always has been the Army. With Prosperity comes Integrity not other way around.
Qureshi
May 03, 2011 06:18pm
This entire episode of killing Osama seems like the movie 'Tere bin laden' - a hindi movie released not so long ago... LOL :D As for the pakistani leadership, they've lost it all. Not sure what's in store next... More lies?
Sami
May 03, 2011 06:21pm
They were watching PAK vs WI Cricket Live...
Nadir Anjum
May 03, 2011 06:28pm
We really don't care about where the nuclear assest coming from. Leadership of both countries are crazy to hold assests who public are dying hunger. You know well how many million people of India have not shelter and sleep on footpaths but the country has nuclear assests too. What to do both countries??????
Muhammad Riaz
May 03, 2011 06:31pm
Thank you for writing it in black and white, with no grey areas.
Vince
May 03, 2011 06:35pm
Just imagine, gun battle raging for 40 long minutes, virtually next door to the Pakistan Military Academy, and no one took any notice. And, Osama's body floated in the sea within hours after his alleged killing. Wake up please. Obama is going to draw down American forces in 2 months time. He needed to justify that. Plus, he was not going to win 2nd term, and still may not, because he has been too busy killing Muslims in various countries.
Selina
May 03, 2011 06:37pm
Of course America is a democracy, but it is far from perfect. I can't compare it to Pakistan, but I think questioning your leaders is good, it's healthy and democratic. I totally disagree with you that the US doesn't deceive it's masses; it did when it convinced them to support war in Iraq, it did when it convinced them to support war in Vietnam, it did when it convinced them that communism is the root of all evil. And I would like to see more challenges to state authority in India, in China in Iran, which like Pakistan (and i'm afraid the US) have a ruling elite keeping their masses ignorent. I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, I just wanted to elaborate on this, I feel very simplisitic point you've put across.
Pekhawaray
May 03, 2011 06:38pm
shame on our incompetent 'leaders' and generals. We Pakistanis don't deserve this embarrassment. now there will be more stereotyping, more xenophobia. we will face all the hate heaped on us. while you 'leaders' would live in your homes abroad with you swiss accounts handy. People it is time to ask questions. this is so embarrassing. President, PM, Chief of army staff, isi chief all of them should resign and face the nation. shame
Seedoo
May 03, 2011 06:44pm
There is no dignity without prosperity. The blood of poor nations will always be cheap!. Let's face it, migght is right, and right without might is wrong! World respects a country that has something to offer in terms of technology, ideas, etc. When we have nothing to offer to the world except terrorism, we cannot expect anyone in the world to respect us. Let us educate our people, attack corruption, establish law and order, equality and fairness for all, and spur economic activity, dignity will be there to welcome us with open arms.
Verone
May 03, 2011 06:45pm
It was very entertaining to read this article, very well written, humorous in the center and critically analyzed towards the end.
Abid
May 03, 2011 06:49pm
I think either Pakistan Army and ISI helped by turning a blind eye to this operation on purpose or they are eitrely incompitent. Eitther way this is a victory for all peace loving people in the world.
unbiased
May 03, 2011 06:49pm
@Indian Please read the aricle, before Pak Bashing (dont you people ever get tired of it?). Remember WMD?? And if you wish I will give you an in depth report of what your so called democratic leaders are feeding you. Don't for one minute think that your country leaders or any other leaders from the 'First' Democratic countries do not mislead their people. Ours are still learning the art, which they will perfect with the passing tears of 'democracy' as yours hace mastered.
AKS
May 03, 2011 06:56pm
I guess it was a matter of time before someone came out with a conspiracy theory. The difference between this and the WMD scenario was that this is a definitely verifiable fact. If Osama is alive, he'll surface, if he's not, he won't. Do you think Obama would risk his entire legacy with the possibility that Osama would resurface alive somewhere sticking his tongue out at the US. Give the man some credit. He's more intelligent than that,
Kiterunner5
May 03, 2011 07:06pm
Tim, are you done with US answering some serious questions on starting the war in Iraq? How many senators and congressmen feel about their own credibility and competency not to mention that of US agencies? The rat race in US has started just as it started with Iraq's WMD - isn't it??
Waqas Aftab
May 03, 2011 07:11pm
Great work Shyema! Not that I am really amused by what all has gone down, I was waiting for somebody to come out and question all these events! I've heard a lot about radars being jammed and all that sweet stuff, but did everybody go deaf as well!? There were CHOPPERS there for crying out loud, and let's just say, those aren't the quietest of aircrafts.... Baffles me! What is even more disturbing is the fact that the choppers came into our CANTONMENT area, did a precise operation in 40 mins only and left with the body as peacefully as they came in! I refuse to believe that our authorities were so naive to their surroundings! And of course, how can I forget our disenchanted 'allies' 'We killed him' Really? 'In Islamic tradition the body is to be buried within 24 hours and we take that very seriously!' Ummm... What about Guantanamo? Some Muslim bodies never even got a decent burial... so yea... again... really? You had that much respect for OBLs religion.....? Was there NOBODY that accepted his body and the only viable solution was to dump him in the sea? Our 'allies' are great when it comes to putting on a show and so they did (Does anyone remember Saddam?'. Alas! the initial picture of a 'dead' Osama turned out to be a fake. It's almost as if he was about to say something in that picture! The direction of this theater got fouled! You'll have to do better than that to convince everybody that everything happened the way you're saying it happened, and next time, please have SOME solid proof to back up your claims!
Rizwan
May 03, 2011 07:11pm
More and more things about US are becoming questionable... Man on moon, Millineum bug, WMD viz o viz Iraq war...killing Osama several times , no photos , rapid DNA confirmation, dumping body in sea. I wonder who were the innocent ppl really killed to stage Osama's kill. Shame on US. Well as for Pakistani authourities ...happy as long as $$$$$ coming in
prema sai
May 03, 2011 07:47pm
MY SIX YEAR OLD SON, when sent to grocery stores, buys the stuff and comes back with a rupee short on change and says "I dropped it", even as he licks his lipc blue with peppermint. While Pakistan has a lot of questions to answer, the first and the foremost question USA has to answer is, where is Usama's body? They dumped it in the sea to prevent people building a shrine? Are youkidding me? Do you take me for a retard? What is this? Some kind of a an episode from The Simpsons or In-the-loop? I thought Bush was the biggest liar, but looks like Obama is bigger liar.
Sujith
May 03, 2011 07:48pm
if you have any doubt abt the killing of Osama, you have enough people from that house to ask questions, the people whom US soldiers left there(Osama's wives,children and other helpers)
a
May 03, 2011 07:52pm
why are people falling for the US government's version of events? Have people forgotten Iraq's non-existent WMDs already?
mehmoona
May 03, 2011 08:25pm
it seems the Osama saga is non ending ,his death is posing as many questions and conspiracy theories as were his whereabouts and as a final insult to us,the only institution of ours that was functional is being made to appear guilty. and ridiculous.. its like a murderer leaving the crime weapon with finger prints and return address ; to the utter jubilation of our westerly and easterly neighbours who are having the time of their lives pointing fingers in our direction.!!! he was there for 6 yrs in this elaborate house and yet no one knew..........carry on conspiracy theories
Mustafa
May 03, 2011 08:32pm
Shyema... I salute your eye opening article... but I will have to say this blind trust of the people of the West on their media and leadership and this birds eye views of other parts of the world will lead to more innocent people being killed and more hate and violence across the globe. I for one am extremely disappointed to know that Pakistan has been slapped in the face on numerous occasions and we are to blame ourselves for ONE. Ofcourse there are forces outside of Pakistan who do not want us to succeed but when would we UNITE FOR ONCE? I respectfully beg all 1st 2nd or 3rd generation Pakistanis to THINK for once if you all did not return to save Pakistan then WHO would? The cream and butter of the country is exported out to the West whats left are the remains just like sea shells on the sea shore. I remember having a chat with Dr. Arif Nazir Butt (Dean of the School of Business at LUMS) who suggested me not too long ago if I had plans to complete a Masters degree and return to Pakistan to teach at LUMS and I also remembered later I laughed and could not digest the words that came to my mind me, living, Pakistan, leave Canada and God knows what all came to my mind. I recently watched a clip on Facebook showing the state of illegal immigrant Punjabi Sikh workers living in London, England and explaining their ordeal crying, sobbing telling stories of how hard life is, one thing that really stood out in that 8 minute clip was one guy coming to the Camera and suggesting, "Thoree khaa lo ae na hoye buhti de chakkar wich thoree wee goaa betho" Translation "Eat Less as you might lose the little that you have to eat in pursuit of more" and I absolutely thought that was an eye opener for me and Hopefully for many others who perhaps were moved watching the clip or hearing this out. If we for once sit back and think the MAIN reasons many of us chose to come out of Pakistan is to make a better living earn more so perhaps we can live a comfortable life. The picture of comfortable life we have is not so much the freedom of the West as we won’t know it when we are still living in Pakistan but rather the comforts one can afford living comfortably in the various beautiful villages, towns and cities across Pakistan. Once we come here we get stuck to this new materialistic lifestyle of earning more so one can buy a Condo, next Town home, next a Semi-detached home, next a Detached home next 5000 sq. ft house, next a Cottage. My countrymen, did you really DREAMT of all that when you first chose to leave your mother (Pakistan)? Is working an odd job in the West really make you THAT much RICH than it would have had you choose to work right in Pakistan, only had you decided to break the norms of society and decided to work hard for your Mother (Pakistan) I sincerely hope all folks of conscious will take this piece at heart and will try their utmost best to decide that they would want to work for their country and make it prosperous and clean it out from the RUST of Corruption and foreign influence and make things so much better for the people that for ions to come no one would want to leave their mother so it could be slapped around the globe. In the end it is INDEED a GREAT DECEIT for us Pakistanis!!! May Allah give us all the patience and courage to act upon whats in the best interest of Pakistan AMEEN!!!
murali, India
May 03, 2011 08:34pm
I am so proud of all the guys commenting here. No foul language, no unncessory arguments and collectively they are hurt for one reason, thier nation's crdibility is being questioned. Their leaders may have let them down but this generation can surely change the way so called world police looks at Pakistan.
Hatim
May 03, 2011 08:49pm
Military Helicopters land next to a Pak military academy in a "garrison" town not too far from the capitol, carry out an operation for 40 minutes and then fly south all across the country to dump the body in Sea and pak Military says they had no knowledge of it or did not take part in this ? If you believe that, then I've got a bridge to sell you.
Anne
May 03, 2011 08:50pm
Am I missing the point? Do 2 wrongs make a right? When has answering violence with violence in the war against terror ever seemed to help? From where I am standing it has previously only appeared to fuel the fire. One part of me is obviously glad Osama is no longer but the other aprt of me is horrified at him being eliminated in this manner. Why don't we learn to traet the causes of terrorism rather than retaliate to the effects? The other thing that really saddens me is that Pakistan's good name is sullied again. Personally I think as a country you have so much to offer and it would be lovely if a positive image could be displayed to the world for a change.
naem Iqbal
May 03, 2011 08:53pm
And a good opportunity to remind us. Thank you. We are grateful indeed!
Guest
May 03, 2011 09:01pm
Great article.
jicktick
May 03, 2011 09:03pm
ISI and the Pak army is either too intelligent or too dumb here.. dont know what part they have here..
Ashish Khushu
May 03, 2011 09:15pm
I am a Kashmiri Pandit, yet don't want Pakistan to be in the situation it is in right now. Obsession with USA and India will not help. There are serious issues that Pakistan needs to address. With every passing month, the situation is becoming serious. Neither you nor we can afford a weak or disintegrated Pakistan.
Pradeep
May 03, 2011 09:15pm
So your concern was not that a murdering terrorist was binding in your country for the past decade. It is more about your nukes. I think you should seriously revisit your priorities.
Hasni
May 03, 2011 09:17pm
Try to understand the situation & west propoganda again. Obama wants to get elect for next elections to do the puppet job for the next 8 years. So that he continue doing the war all over Middle east and Central Asia. To weak China's economy that will surpass US economy in coming years. So Obama has already stuck into too many controversies and he has been failed during his presidency. He has been telling lies to world and now all the media using their language. Please use your own mind and analysis. See their track record and you can easily predict how they play double games to get their monsterous goals killing innocents in Iraq, Libaya and all over the Muslim. Please dawn make it post don't delete my post. Thank you.
Yasmin Elahi
May 03, 2011 09:20pm
Very good questions which seem to come from a patriotic Pakistani. But you must have the common sense to understand that our leaders (I feel ashamed to call them so), were too busy consolidating their governmet, taking what they had let go a couple of years back i.e. taking PML Q in their folds and making plans for further plundering the common man , to take interest in any other issue! Be it killing of Bin Laden next door to our most prestigious (Or so I thought till yesterday) military academy, or a total breakdown of law and order in Karachi!
Wakeup
May 03, 2011 09:23pm
Brilliant artcle and a great blog!! Very degrading. . . people are dying and getting blown away on a daily basis and plus the 'Bin Ladin' was living right under their ignorant Nose! What has happened to the safety and security for the common citizen? Does it not exist any more? Pakistan used to be a great, prosperous and wholesome country about some 30 years ago!!!
Masood Haider
May 03, 2011 09:28pm
So now even a respected member of this august newspaper is suggesting conspiracies. Give it to the Pakistanis for totally living in a fool's paradise. Obama declared at the outset that the US would go after Osama wherever there was enough proof thart he was hiding. It is conceivable that the Pakistani government, military and ISI didn't know where he was. By hiding a mass murder and enemy number one of the mightiest nation in the world Pakistan acted very foolishly and deceptively and will pay the price for a long time to come.
BRR
May 03, 2011 09:28pm
The movie, BTW, was banned in Pakistan I think, thanks to the infinite wisdom of the Deep State,
imran
May 03, 2011 09:35pm
its all nonsense to discuss anything EITHER WAY. The only TWO people who really KNOW what happened and WHY, is ZADARi and OBAMA. End of story. Discussing anything else is useless. Unless Either of these two suddenly take a TRUTH pill the world will never really know what is going on
sarwar
May 03, 2011 09:39pm
Dignity for prosperity - Swiss have no army to talk about, has prosperity an more dignity in the world than Pakistan. Same is the case with Taiwan, Japan, Singapore. In other words what the General is saying is that tax payers to keep on paying for Army and me but I do not care weather civilians go hungry or not. Shame on this army.
Doesn't matter
May 03, 2011 09:40pm
You are calling America Tom, Dick, and Harry! What US did was the right thing. Who really cares about Pak sovereignty? It is a failed state anyway. You should be scared of radicalism and lack of tolerance in your society.
Michelle
May 03, 2011 09:45pm
As an American citizen and resident, I just want to let you know that only a hand-full of people that I have spoken with actually believe what we are hearing state-side. We have even more questions than you brought up and the majority of people out here are extremely skeptical of this entire situation (for lack of a better word.) Just FYI
Wakeup
May 03, 2011 09:51pm
Brilliant artcle and a great blog!! Thank God and good riddens but at the same time, quite degrading. . . people have been dying and getting blown away on a daily basis and plus the ‘Bin Ladin’ was living right under their Ignorant Nose! What has happened to the safety and security for the common citizen? Does it not exist any more? Pakistan used to be a great, prosperous and wholesome country about some 30 years ago!!!
Naeem
May 03, 2011 09:55pm
Best Comment on this sad state of affairs.
V.Sreenivas
May 03, 2011 10:01pm
A nice article. It looks like an attempt to wake up a person pretending to sleep which is impossible. It seeemselves.er than thms that the leaders of Pakistan think that they can deceive everyone all the time. But they are deceiving none oth
Abhishek
May 03, 2011 10:04pm
Maam, you have exactly summarized my mood and have put it in the exact right words "Told you so. Told you so". Honestly, I thought back, and this was the exact same sentiment I felt 10 years back on that fateful day in September. So once again, on behalf of all my countrymen, can I please repeat "I told you so... I told you so" :-)
shoaib
May 03, 2011 10:06pm
First we all know of our civilian government, they are more interested in saving their chairs rather than reckoning how to control all this thing.. They were more interested in the alliance with PML-Q.. I cannot think how US men came and started an operation in a place called as the hub and training centre of Pak army, why not Pak army itself.. Does this mean that all our money is being squandered on Pak army, if it cannot do an operation in its hub then what is its use? I dont get it.. and also if the amercian's can so easily conduct an operation in Pak so does this mean that our nuclear assets are also not save, after all its men of US.. they are free to go everywhere.. and does everywhere means everywhere now?
Basharat
May 03, 2011 10:11pm
It is my sincere advice to all Pakistanis to not to believe the drama created by USA related to killing of Osama bin Laden in Abbotabad..... please dont forget, they are the same Americans who destroyed Iraq and killed 0.6 millions Iraqis on the pretext of WMD for which their Foreign Secretary presented "Evidence" in UN General Assembly..... If still you want to believe this drama of USA, okay go ahead.... Osama was possibly killed by them in Afghanistan and then drama created to pressurize Pakistan.... dont forget Pakistan has recently shown eyes to USA on the case of Davis Raymond
Akash
May 03, 2011 10:16pm
The denial machinery in Pakistan has kicked into high gear. Killing Osama was the only viable option. Taking him alive would have elevated him and given him a new forum to spew his hate. And since no country would accept his remains, a burial at sea was the only choice. Any other way would have made him a martyr. Rest assured that the US will have lots of photo and video evidence including DNA and biometrics which prove their case beyond a shred of doubt. Also, they left behind his son (dead), and one of his wives (alive) at the compound. So they are in Pakistani custody. Pakistan can investigate the compound and rebut the US claims, if they think otherwise.
Shimail
May 03, 2011 10:16pm
Thand paye gai! : )
Arshad Ali
May 03, 2011 10:19pm
I ask everyone to be a bit patient. Please try and understand that truth can be told instantly but trumping up a story takes time. Zardari. Gianni. Kayani and Pasha need time to come with some sort of explanation though not necessarily plausible. Wait a minute don’t get me wrong. Here I mean explaining to American and not Pakistani people as they own nothing to them. It is USA that must be bothering them.
nar
May 03, 2011 10:28pm
Very well written article. I am from India and I always 'wanted' to believe that Pakistani establishment is not involved in any form or manner in support of terrorism. Its getting increasingly difficult to not believe it.
G.A.
May 03, 2011 10:29pm
Everyone is complaining about our sovereignty being violated by the Americans. What about all these Arab, Egyptian, Kuwaiti, Jordanian, Afghan, Tajik etc. fanatics crossing over into Pakistan and telling us how we should live?
Tanweer Ahmed
May 03, 2011 10:38pm
The author just forgot to mention the very recent lie of US president that Raymond Davis was a diplomat. Few years back a Bin Laden look-alike was captures and only a DNA test proved that he was not. This time there was no need of any verification, any test, any media coverage. The crashing helicopter and blood stains on the walls and floor of the compound only proves that some one was either killed or injured there, nothing more. As I poster in my earlier comment that its impossible to believe what they are claiming. Rather I believe the Osama was killed long time back, may be months or years, but Washington was looking for a right time to encash on it. If not, he is still alive. At least he was not killed in this drama episode.
vinny
May 03, 2011 10:43pm
You Pakistanis don't deserve this embarrassment? What do you mean? You are reaping, what you were sowing for last 64 years since independence. You are facing your own Karma, as simple as that.
Farrukh
May 03, 2011 10:44pm
Shyema, you make some good points, but sometimes this just reads like a long rant. For example, Obama was likely referring to Pakistan's cooperation in the past (or perhaps cooperation in allowing airspace use), but it's pretty obvious that the US don't trust the ISI or our government enough to share sensitive intelligence. Many papers, including your own, reported a US official saying yesterday, "We shared our intelligence on this Bin Laden compound with no other country, including Pakistan". So, your question about Pakistan not knowing the "details" makes it sound like you forgot to do your homework and simply adds to the hysteria.
anwar mehmood
May 03, 2011 10:46pm
the root cause of all problems is the philosophy on which pakistan was formed.... i m a indian muslim, and i feel much safe and prosperous here...
AzadDunya
May 03, 2011 10:48pm
Very well written. I think it is time that young generation should take charge and get rid of All Zardri,s Choudhry, Bhai's, Sharif’s , all Bearcats, Mullah’s and last but not the least Nawaz and his clan. Clean up this mess created by these so called elites of Pakistan; these are the real threat to Pakistan's future Take control of your country and go marching from all over Pakistan. It will take sacrifice for the goodness of you future generation.
Harsha Bardhan
May 03, 2011 10:53pm
Now where do we go from....? Assuming that I am Pakistani for a second
Eesha
May 03, 2011 10:53pm
Precisely. what sea? The fact that no one (US OR Pakistani Media, who are both critical analysts of any realpolitik situation) has stopped to question "WHICH SEA?" is frankly ludicrous. The CIA or Democrats or whoever came up with this election-biased ploy had it easier than they would have imagined. I find it easier to believe that OBL may have died a while ago due to natural causes, probably in some mountainous terrain less obvious than a military city and they just chanced upon this information now, hence using it to their advantage.
leela gupta
May 03, 2011 10:54pm
I fully agree with Nadir Anjum. Both India and Pakistan should concentrate on improving the conditions and lot of the poor and unfortunate instead of unnecessarily spending on its military and arms and ammunition. All the Western powers want us to fight, so that they can sell their arms to both the countries and keep us divided. between Pakistan and India, we can control a huge amount of food and other resources for the world and get a better bargain for our people.
Harsh
May 03, 2011 10:55pm
@Sohail Weapons have never brought peace to anyone. The buggest example is US with all the weapons they still dont have peace.
Leela Gupta
May 03, 2011 10:55pm
I fully agree with you.........we can ill afford the luxury of spending on nuclear weapons and complex arms and ammunition.
leela gupta
May 03, 2011 10:57pm
Excellently written. Great. I wish we had such analysis and direct questions in India. The biggest worry for me is as to why both India and Pakistan trust the USA, but do not trust each other and keep spending on arms and ammunition, when we have millions of poor in both countries whose lives can become better if we are friends..
Inder
May 03, 2011 11:03pm
well said!
kiran
May 03, 2011 11:05pm
brilliantly said!
Bash
May 03, 2011 11:13pm
It is unfair to blame Pakistan for not locating Osama bin laden. The intelligence has always been shared. Maximum Al-Qaeda including top ranking operatives like abu zubaida, abu faraj etc were captured by Pakistan. Now if CIA has done this "Miracle", then why should you insinuate what you are insinuating... this is pure intellectual subservience. What about those Al-Qaeda operatives captured from mainland USA and Europe. Were they being protected by their intelligence agencies. One must be fair in his judgement, this is an obligation on every one including intellectuals
Zia
May 03, 2011 11:14pm
I am waiting for that day when our columnist community will put their act together and blame who really needs to be blamed. Our politicians are clueless about this issue. The only people who know it very well is our army and agencies. Please we need to see columns about their corruptions and misadventures.
Munawar abbas
May 03, 2011 11:28pm
So American Halicopter flew in undetected and no one from this mighty Army of Palistan resigned. Shame on them and Army and Airforce chief should resign and let other competent Generals take their places. Osama was in Pakistan and ISI did not knew about it, shame on them.
Zia
May 03, 2011 11:29pm
Lemme add further to it..We have thousands of missiles and 60+ nukes and our defense budget is still 400B+ and to add further shame to it, our education budget is only 16B. Do you think we will ever prosper?
abhi
May 03, 2011 11:30pm
Pakistan needs a movement just like what is happening in Egypt, Libya and others...
proudindian
May 03, 2011 11:42pm
Please do not compare the US's democratic apparatus to Pakistan's. Every government deceives its citizens for political expediency but it is the degree of deception and more importantly the consequences of that deception that matters. Remember that once it was established beyond doubt that Republicans in the USA lied almost every politician associated with the republican party was voted out. Granted that they had 150 years to hone their process--but compare Pakistans government to India...both have similar people and similar interests (kind of like West and East Germany). But its obvious which country is moving a lot ahead and which country is lagging behind. Any country that gives precedence to religious conviction and not human dignity will always lag behind.
Izabela Szydlo
May 03, 2011 11:51pm
Another fantastic editorial from Shyema! As a Canadian watching the celebrations in America, I asked many of the same questions you did in your editorial. Thank you for your humorous, yet TRUE, analysis. I appreciate it.
Preves
May 03, 2011 11:52pm
How do we work on nation-building, when most of the intellectuals have already fled the country for Dubai or USA or elsewhere? Maybe we could get some help from Chinese on how they convinced their overseas chinese diaspora to invest back in the mainland. And if Saudis needs to invest their money, which better place than in Pakistan which is closer and has the human resources for industrialization. Tell the Saudis to build roads/ and oil-power electricity plants. We have enough mosques, and we can build our own mosques.
Ali
May 03, 2011 11:57pm
It's called 'credibility', something we Pakistanis have no experience of from our Leaders!
Karan J
May 03, 2011 11:57pm
This might be an eyewash for all you know. We have been seeing news flashing ever second of the "kill" but very surprisingly no one is even thinking why has the body been buried in such a hurry. The councel of minsiters saw the killing as per NDTV this morning but there is no video released to the public as an evidence of the event. we should get more details
Novamax
May 03, 2011 11:59pm
Americans trusted the actions of SEALS. Period
Santa_Banta
May 04, 2011 12:10am
It is hillarious to note that pakistanis are asking for proof of Bin Laden's death. All of pakistan believes that Kargil never happened.Indian parliament and Mumbai attacks were fake. India helps Baloch separatist. And Indian forces are present in Swat and Waziristan. No one in pakistan talks about any proof of this. They are all gospels of truth. So where did this sudden love for proof came, especially when pakistan is shown sheltering the most wanted criminal of the world.
Abdul Kasam
May 04, 2011 12:12am
Lady, US choppers were in pakistan air space!! YOu want proof, go to the house where the action took place and you'll see what happened. Ask the survivors, they'll tell you that OBL is dead and Americans killed him!! Go USA!!
FMM
May 04, 2011 12:21am
I don't know why we are so surprised? We never had a leader who sincerelly cared about the country, All they care about is their Bank Accounts, It's like Pakistani Government is their personal Business. WAKE UP PAKISTANIO, WE NEED A REVOLUTION with a capital R
Surya
May 04, 2011 12:23am
I see several valid points in the views presented by the author of this article. I am an Indian. I am really surprised on the total failure of PAF in protecting their air space. How is it possible for four gunships to encroach a sovereign space for 4 hours. How is it possible for them to stay in the airspace at least for couple of hours after firing shots at a home. What was PAF radar handlers doing? sleeping in the job? Who is accountable for the failure. These questions must be answered without giving any regard to whether the outcome of this foreign military action benefited the world or not, which is a different question.
BRG
May 04, 2011 12:25am
So what do you believe...Osama has not been killed!!! Stay with your belief..Did Obama force you to believe this?
Suresh Mandan
May 04, 2011 12:26am
A very Good article.Yes there are more questions unanswered and they will remain unanswered.In these countries like India and Pakistan, the people's voice is heard only for votes.The Indian ruling elite is no different,interested more in politics rather than in people and their problems.As far as Intelligence is concerned, it has more failures than success in all countries.The Pakistan Govt cannot answer all the questions raised because they are inwardly party to the operation. They turned their eyes away when the operation was being carried out.
Ken Bryant
May 04, 2011 12:45am
That OBL is dead -- good, but it will make little difference. What is more important than his death is the effect it will have on the world's view of Pakistan. Pakistan is not an ally of the US; it has become, I'm afraid, an enemy, and can expect to be treated more and more as an enemy in the coming year.
javed khan
May 04, 2011 01:05am
That is a great article and yes it is a shame that once again Pakistanis have been humillaited in this way. However I think it is time to take stock and to not simply accept what our so called security forces are doing. We need to ensure we do not have "2 faces" to terrorism and it would be benefical for us to improve ties with all our neighbours, most notably India and then perhaps we would not need to divert so much important funding for the military/intelligence services. Quite simply we should look back at the last 60+ years and realise to continue in the same way will simply keep us exactly where we are now. We seriously need to change our approach in every way if we are to progress as a modern nation.
Altaf Memon
May 04, 2011 01:32am
I don not know how long it will take us to realize that we are nothing but beggars. And we are treated accordingly. All this talk of pride and sovereignty is nothing but lip service. From government to an ordinary civilian, everyone is after materialistic world and no one cares about the country. If we did, we wouldn't be in this situation. So better keep our mouth shut and watch the titanic sink!!!
Alex Farooque
May 04, 2011 01:36am
I think they killed that guy who played the fake Bin Laden in the movie and claimed him as the real one. It's joke but you already knew that, didn't you?
Sanjay
May 04, 2011 01:38am
Hi Sajjad, A very well written article and it is unfortunate that i have to read these articles in Pakistani newspapers. A countries woes limited to the country are painful enough but for a country to be treated like they have no say in their own house is really embarassing. I hope the leaders and people of pakistan can come to terms with all these and put up a single united front to the rest of world, paying attention to the well being of its people. Best wishes. Sanjay
Raja
May 04, 2011 01:39am
Very nice article! seems alot of people have over analysed the situation with very little information. A lot of questions need to be asked in regards to this operation conducted by US before we start ratling Pakistani Government and Army for some answers. I am not entirely convinced with this episode and I am NOT willing to blame anyone except all my Dear Pakistanis.
fowbhai
May 04, 2011 01:39am
Why the US were in a hurry to dump the body? (esp. in the sea and claiming it to be Islamic.)
Parikshit, Mumbai
May 04, 2011 01:53am
Ms. Sheyma Sajjad, I second what another fellow Indian commented about this blog. I've hardly ever seen such sharpness in Indian media over matters that demand questioning the establishment on its face. Here in India, its all 'you-scratch-my-back, I-scratch-yours' journalism. Hats Off & RESPECT.
Mehtab
May 04, 2011 02:24am
LOL man. Great Article though. My only question is what were the SARHADON KE MUHAFIZ guarding? We are being told by this action that we have to defend our ownselves. Pak Forces are fast asleep. Shame.
Ram Sekhar
May 04, 2011 02:26am
Too bad, you're being fed yesterday's news. With all the poverty on one side, India's doing a great job of growing the economy too. We stopped living on doles. Pakistan now has to figure out a new way of seeking doles now that their blackmail might not be effective.
Allen
May 04, 2011 02:32am
I aplogize for writing a second time but YES, the American Media deceives us everyday. They rarely report the truth and this is a large subject of debate and frustration among the American people. There is a mosque that was built recently near my home in America and I am frightened for my family. I ask you, Do Muslims not speak out against extremists or does our media simply not report it? The American understanding is that the majority of Muslims want us all converted or dead.
Mark
May 04, 2011 02:40am
Agree with unbiased 200%. It is just that certain things , if deception is involved , would be a sick joke that it could be political suicide...but I agree with you that to go to war , to profit unethically from businesses , to make laws to serve their own , the politicians are no better anywhere...we people don't deserve our leaders...or maybe we do...
Saad
May 04, 2011 02:44am
I think it is out right unfair to drag in civilian leadership into this. It was army's game play and civil leadership was helpless to force army into behaving themselves. I think the decision taken by the civil leadership to let US drone all the terrorists out couldn't have been more correct. Our own army is working against the country, this is shameful and a state of concern.
hassaan
May 04, 2011 02:56am
finally somebody is asking the right questions. First of all, if they really killed him. where is his body. where is any picture. dumping the body in the sea is quite convenient. the most wanted man in history and they want to fulfil mistaken islamic rituals for him? CNN and bbc etc are so biased, they are celebrating the fact that osama died and US navy seals were the one to do so. but why are'nt any of them asking questions? Where are any pictures? are they being photoshoped? If osama really was killed and pakistani army and ISI was the one harboring him, you really think a mansion with 12 feet walls in the middle of abottabad cantonment was the safest place? Our leadership and government was always corrupt but i really thought army was pakistan's only hope. No statement from ISPR or kayani. I am really worried even if osama was killed or not, what implications it will have on my country. God help pakistan.
Saadi
May 04, 2011 03:00am
This is the time to think.......i mean each time army does things and civilian govts have to bear the burden..why ???....they these people topple govts and come...make destruction and when it is on brench of colllapse..these generals fade away,why ?? & why do we support them then..?
Faisal Azeem
May 04, 2011 03:03am
I didn't expect US leaders to play such a dumb game. Whatever the truth is, US people again proved they are as naive as us, Pakistanis. But why this super power played so dumb, they could have created a much better and smarter story. Anyway, I am disgusted by Pakistani leaders
Jay Dawg
May 04, 2011 03:05am
You write with such barely concealed hatered for the US that is surprises me: - The burial at sea was required fast and quick so that there couldn't be a place of worship for his followers - The 'Allies' you talk about want to be Pakastani friends. However, much like in the Middle East subcontinental muslims change loyalties based on which side of the bed they woke up on. - The US had no other way to do this, but in the dark, without informing Pakistan based on the fact that Zardari and company don't know anything anyway. - This was a highly organized and well executed plan and I am very happy for it. Very Sad!
Sonal
May 04, 2011 03:10am
well sir if american administration was corrupt - it would have had a fields day with the corrupt pakistan administration. the americans have a mission and they have to deal with an incompetent and corrupt system. and not to mention a vain military that is the only organization that seems to function and while it functions it seems to degrade any other demosratic institution from functioning.
hugh johnson
May 04, 2011 03:16am
Very well put.
Javed
May 04, 2011 03:35am
busy with thinking how to make more money in land deals and creating new DHa's.
daniel molinini
May 04, 2011 03:40am
Pakistani politicians could not speak as they were shocked that the truth was glaring at their face they thought they were too smart but like the old saying goes in asia the mango cannot hide for too long behind the leaves and must come to the market, someday. Pakistan's double door policy is out in the open, highlighting its feeble integrity which was also obvious with the Mumbai attacks.
Ahmad
May 04, 2011 03:42am
This has brought shame to Pakistan. People in my dad's office kept coming up to him and telling him that bin laden was in Pakistan and my dad couldnt say anything especially when news broke out that the ISI or Army had no role in it. I personally was disappointed in the military and ISI, they are our pride and honestly, they are our most competant leaders Zardari is a nobody, he is too busy finding allies who will help with his corrupttion. I just hope that the army and ISI show the world that we do not support terrorism. We cannot trust no one, and we should take actions ourselves.
Girish
May 04, 2011 04:22am
Exactly. When collectively you demand that from your leaders, military heads and judicial, then democracy will again settle in, and the radicals eventually will be wiped out. Believe me, when you start doing that, you will have ample help from outside, even from your arch enemey, India (my country). Good luck.
girish
May 04, 2011 04:25am
You will never realize facts, and will always suffer from this. So be it !!!
Bashir
May 04, 2011 04:25am
Brothers/Sisters, time for talk and cross-talk is over. It is time to walk the walk - "with us or with them" time will be on us soon. There is not even one single country that agrees with us about good-terrorist and bad-terrorist. We can either eliminate all terrorists and get paid, or the others will eliminate all terrorists and make us pay.
Munz
May 04, 2011 04:28am
Our leaders are nothing but shameless! Shame on us and shame on our measly existance that we elect these culprits to loot us and our country!!! I will NEVER be proud to be a Pakistani, yet,; yes I am proud to be a US Citizen!
Jayadevan
May 04, 2011 04:41am
Shyema, well put. The guys who can afford to buy a ticket to fly out of Pakistan (and who have a home abroad to fly to -seen photo's of the Bhutto mansion in Old Blighty?) are the guys who are selling Pakistan down the river. Plus the land-owning gentry who send their kids abroad to study, buy their basics at Harrods and come back to play the polo-playing perfect host for the Westerners to go gaga about. And the educated guys who are still stuck here but do not have the basic sense to applaud a bodyguard who murders his principal or a judge who relinquishes the judicial activist role to acquit Muktharan Mai's assailants. Who cares about the people who are stuck here, about the poor children who will not survive till school-going age to find out that they could not anyway? I am an Indian and I still think that we have the most venal collection of "elite' in the world, but our Pakistani cousins seem to be winning the competition.
Raja
May 04, 2011 04:50am
Very well written. We all have one question for Pakistani government, what are you doing?
P. Joseph Raju
May 04, 2011 04:59am
In every country, the Army serve the country. If my observation is correct, in Pakistan, the country serve the Army. People of Pakistan must rise up and change this.
MMS
May 04, 2011 05:00am
It is a shame, I am a loyal Pakistani in the US, therefore I cannot help you. You should start a massive facebook inquiry, which I hope the educated read and try to push the idea through.
baba ramdev
May 04, 2011 05:42am
@Unbiased "And for good reason of course, yes, yes, no denying we do support terrorists, quite right." If the Indian guy is happy doing Pak bashing, u r happy being in a state of denial (dont you people ever get tired of it?). Who cares a hoot wat r the weaknesses of USA govt., if it can provide its citizens such a standard of living tat India and Pakistan can only dream of !! I'm quite amused by the fact tat most people here r hurt because Pakistan's sovereignty was violated and not because their country supports terrorism. I follow Dawn, and almost every alternate day I see news of blast, killing, suicide bombing, etc. on the front page. If the extremists promise to kill someone, they do it openly. I am clueless as to, why would someone support that ?? Army/ISI is suffering from 'empire-building' effect. Unless the army's control over the civilian govt. ceases to exist, I dont see a real and stable democracy coming into Pakistan anytime soon. India needs a stable Pakistan so that both can cut spending on millitary activities and rather spend on the welfare of its citizens.
don
May 04, 2011 05:53am
The educated Pakistanis who want to live like every other person in the free world, still refuse to accept that there are enough fanatics in Pakistan who will not allow this freedom to happen. Pity!
VR
May 04, 2011 06:49am
Really? Based on these posts its very easy to see why the world thinks your are nothing but bunch of terrorists. Its shame that you support this evil even when he murdered 3000 innocent people. He even killed so many Pakis, yet you support this monster because he is muslim? Really? You people are pathetic.
VR
May 04, 2011 06:51am
Of course I am talking about the people who are supporting Bin Laden
Sharon
May 04, 2011 07:02am
Ben, a lot of us think the cheering in the streets was rather manufactured. Loads of Obama election signs. And brand new flags. After the first crowds appeared I know a former student who went down to the WH. Said it was a very eclectic crowd. The majority want pics shown, no matter how gruesome. No one wants Elvis, er, Osama sightings.... While most Americans value living in a free Republic, many realize we've some serious issues, including encroachments upon the Constitution by gov't run amok. In part, due to elected politicians who are blindingly stupid, corrupt or worst of all, both. The Tea Party is doing their best to separate the wheat from the chaff. Worst of all, the media is often compliant and does not do their job as the 4th Estate. It is a pleasure to read this article in The Dawn which looks at the issue honestly. Very best regards.
AP
May 04, 2011 07:06am
Being an Indian and observing from sidelines - I wouldn't comment on anything except there are only few interactions with anything Pakistan where I hear some sensible comments and this is one such place. Well written article and balanced responses from the readers. All the best to you guys as a country because I don't think we'll find peace until you guys find it.
bido
May 04, 2011 07:09am
The Americans always knew about Pakistans double speak. They never trusted them and will never trust them even in future. But, they have to engage them . If readers here, wish to beleive that it is shocking to realise that Osama was being hidden by the establishment all along, then they have been fooling themselves. Americans always knew as much as all of us knew in our heart of hearts, what the truth is. They had to conduct the operation in a manner which gets them some evidence. Else, they could have obliterated that compound with bombs. But.that would not have got them enough evidence and provided more grounds for anger among the common Pakistanis. Obama has taken a major risk in signing this operation. All that is minor news. The real point is - will the powers that be of the state of Pakistan finally see the writing on the wall? The so called strategic depth and the methods adopted to go about getting it has spelt doom for Pakistan.
Ratheesh
May 04, 2011 07:15am
Very well written!
Indian
May 04, 2011 02:27am
Dear Pakistani brothers n sisters, If it makes you feel any better, our Indian politicians are equally bad if not worse. We also have similar problems such as proverty, lack of education, poor healthcare etc. What makes Indians different is that we are not obsessed with Pakistan or China unlike Pakistan which is obsessed with India. We dont like Pakistan. But we dont hate Pakistan (except when innocent citizens both Hindus and Muslims were killed in Mumbai and the handlers were giving live directions from Pakistan). I was not born during the Indo-China war. So I have no reason to hate China. You have cultivated generations which hate India without knowing why. Convert all this negative energy in to a positive energy to help the common Pakistani who only cares for his bread and butter. We in India have worked hard to make our democratic institutions strong. We have never allowed the Military to challenge the democratic institutions. Very recently, many Indians protested against corruption in India. This was purely done in a non-violent manner. Perhaps you could copy this model if you like. While I do not necessarily agree with Gandhiji on all issues, I think he invented a powerful tool. Use it. It is free and not a drop of blood will be wasted. Good luck.
vinay
May 04, 2011 02:44am
a few weeks ago when the activist Anna Hazare sat in a fast unto death in Delhi the government quivered and gave into his demands for drafting an anti corruption bill. Of course they ignored him first but quickly realised that it had become a peoples' movement. Indians from all across the country poured in with support, the media covered the event non stop. The ruling congress government finally gave in. Pakistan needs an Anna Hazare. Someone from civil society who has the guts to take on the establishment. The pakistani establishment is inefficient and corrupt and has been so for a long time. What pakistan needs is a peoples' movement that will send a clear message to the establishment. As a neighbour who is fond of the country I hope this happens soon. Pakistan is in a mess and only the people can bring it out of it. Don't expect anything from the government. More power to you guys. vinay
ahmed
May 04, 2011 07:58am
afterall it is every Pakistanis fault, be it the generals, ISI, civilian leadership or common Rizwan or Ahmed. Pakistanis as a whole must come to terms that something we are doing is not right, time after time, we are being humiliated as if we don't even exist. we are crushed, and crushed and crushed. unless and until every pakistani wakes up and work harder like other people around th world, we will be continually humiliated. so sad, we have lost everything. our faith, our country, and now our soul.
Jawad Muzaffar
May 04, 2011 03:00am
Hats off Shyema.. great great work... its what every Pakistani wants to know from heart. Also a direct message to the American nation, "Please don't be that goof".
khanman
May 04, 2011 03:17am
I am all for it. They should be brought to trial.
kashif
May 04, 2011 08:35am
libya is very rich country but lost it dignity becuasue of kadhafi.
Farhan
May 04, 2011 08:59am
If you read the twitter updates, witnesses saw army jeeps heading to the site at the same time that helicopters were flying overhead. There is something fishy in the official story.
Think about it
May 04, 2011 09:35am
Really? You are scared for your family and our country only now. US has the world's most advanced military - if anybody could pull this off its them and they did it not to go after Pakistan or innocent Pakistani citizens, but to go after a foreign citizen who masterminded many US targeted terrorist strikes. US also has been quite open about it intentions about going after OBL and our govt/establishment has been supportive (albeit for specific returns). Do you think Pakistan has random rogue countries as enemies around the world that will be actually be taking the risk of full-on War with another nation - that too nuclear armed? Nations who have that sophisticated armed forces are also mostly capable of producing their own nuclear weapons if they want to. Also, why do you think they will attack Pakistan? For land, oil, other rare natural resources?
Seingeist
May 04, 2011 10:07am
Ditto that!
rick
May 04, 2011 05:18am
take heart pak. china is supporting you fully in this. so you must be correct.. carry on the good work.. let the army and isi decide what to do.. let the elected goverment be their mouthpiece.. and you always have china to fall back..
Rohit
May 04, 2011 05:19am
graphical??..what an excuse... they may as well say "we dont want the world to know we killed just an ordinary terrorist"
farwa rana
May 04, 2011 10:40am
where this drama will end???
Great Guy
May 04, 2011 05:48am
It is difficult to fathom that PK intelligence services or establishment did not know about this operation, when one of the first tweets (cited by int'l media) was from Abbottabad itself. In situations like this. states choose to act dumb for broader reasons. the govt and military appears to choose to receive a black eye rather than take credit in the cooperation. This to safeguard against retributions and fallout and to make the village chief look good as he is looking for the exit. 'Finding' Osama in Afghanistan may not have had the desired results.
prashant garg
May 04, 2011 10:50am
very well written. Wonderful ! It seems Pakistani media is more analytic and close to truth than that we have in india. thanks for this article.
Auri
May 04, 2011 11:00am
Come on Krishna, Dawood is the official, known relative of the GREAT Javed Miandad! There is no way Dawood is in Pakistan...come on. You Indians, always want throw egg on Pakistani's faces. There is no Taliban, No Dawood, No OBL, No No-one in Pakistan. Pakistan is a peaceful country, with greatest economic might and strong values.
R.Kannan
May 04, 2011 11:06am
I think Shyema has been far too supportive of the govt & leaders in this article. Nowhere has there been any talk of radars being jammed. However, Pakistan spends the largest portion o0f its GDP on defence and questions arise as to whether the spending has been worth it.
rk
May 04, 2011 11:12am
This would certainly answer many of the questions - Why the changing statements - Pakistan, Saudi, no other country would accept his body; Busied in Afghanistan; buried at sea 'Islamically' ? Why the unseemly hurry ? Why despite the '99% certainty' that it is Osama ? Why no video or photos - they were shown live to Pres Obama, etc ? The taking him captive and saying he is dead and buried would also foreclose any attempt to take hostages and demand an exchange. Good thinking !
sabharim
May 04, 2011 11:13am
Surely everyone of you know that India has no need or interest in 'coming' to Islamabad. As mentioned in another article in The Dawn today 'Lost in the Frenzy' and I quote "There is a remarkable disconnect between India's capitalist elite media and its democratic population. It could be difficult for Pakistani readers to believe, especially since it comes from an Indian citizen, but the official Indian position on Pakistan has seldom been as nonsensical as the shriek sessions in its electronic media and borrowed verbiage in its print.....The establishment here understands a weak Pakistan is a bleak sign for India....Again, it would be ideal if India could re-envision its role, not in but FOR Pakistan." I think our people have been cheated long enough by our Politicians selling the bogey of 'the enemy'.
molend
May 04, 2011 11:18am
I think you're probably right on most things, but perhaps not on xenophobia. There is certainly xenophobia towards Pakistanis (and Bangladeshis) living abroad because of their intransigence and refusal to integrate, but I'm sure many people all over the world sympathize with those living inside the country. You really do seem to have been "cursed" with the most appalling political and military leadership for many years now.
jssidhoo
May 04, 2011 11:19am
Well said brother'' Khudi ko kar buland itna ke har taqder se pehle Khuda bande se ye poche bata teri raza kia hai''
Virendra
May 04, 2011 11:23am
Move over from Punjab Kesari and India TV to The Hindu/Indian Express and NDTV please. You will start seeing such articles/reports.
Shadow
May 04, 2011 11:36am
The govt is in a catch 22 situation. It they say they knew about the operation there would be a serious backlash from the terrorists and if they say they did not know they will face backlash from the people that how could they be sleeping over such a great operation.
Malik
May 04, 2011 11:58am
waiting, when 3rd Usama will die?
Prakash
May 04, 2011 12:19pm
Just for knowledge's sake - The picture of Osama shown above is a sand sculpture created by Indian sand artist Sudarsan Pattnaik. He created a 5ft high sand sculpture of Bin Laden on a open book at Puri beach of Orissa.
sanjeev
May 04, 2011 12:30pm
why are you bringing India in this article ?
Auranzeb
May 04, 2011 12:33pm
Where is Chief Justice who always says that all insitutions including Army and ISI are accountable to judiciary.
sanjeev
May 04, 2011 12:36pm
is it compulsory to criticise another country's media before appreciating some other.. .... ..typical mindset with inferirotiy complex.if i can enumerate many good articles in indian newspapers also
Suhail Yusuf
May 04, 2011 12:39pm
This blog is voice of all Pakistanis. Osama is no more but we need answer of some questions because "Extraordinary claims need extraordinary proofs". I am very much disappointed by the role of political leadership and security agencies because the leadership was busy in power sharing and to protect his power as well. Yesterday Gilani was found in France which gave me the sense of Déjà vu when Zardari left the nation in horrible flood.
Jeddy
May 04, 2011 12:50pm
How many times does a man have to die before he is declared dead?
siddique
May 04, 2011 01:00pm
Finally, now it is time to express ourselves openly about the role of military establishment. Now it is time to come out of clutches of these self-centric security policy makers, who not only maligned our country in the name of sovereignty and security but also are burden on national exchager due to heavy defense budget allocated for security of this country. Now it is time to think calmly and patiently that we cant move forward using false claims and lies anymore. Ask them to stop invading our own democratic governments, ask them to detect foreign helicopters flying with low altitude which not only intrude into our borders but also accomplish their tasked assigned to them. Thank you,
Hamd
May 04, 2011 01:14pm
i just cant understand why realists always get the title of conspiracy theorists all the time, Come to think of it, i mean really, US has the most number of spy satellites orbiting this planet, and still it took a decade to find OBL, and when they finally find him, its in Pakistan, a country already under a considerable burden of DOING MORE, and after that they just shoot him and drown him in the sea? this looks like a double edged sword for Pakistan, if they yield to this pressure, they will be opening a yet another front on their own soil.
desibaba
May 04, 2011 01:59pm
After WMD lie, why would i believe that there was Osama ? I or any other Pakistani did not check their helicopters.... May be they killed just those so called 2 brothers and claimed that there was Osama too, and they dumped his body into the sea within hours..we were far better of when Musharraf was there.
hassan
May 04, 2011 02:26pm
I love your articles Shyema ji.. Keep on writing in this fashion......
lala
May 04, 2011 02:58pm
shyema you are very right,you know why didnt amercans ask from their leadership the proof,in my point of view there are couple of very simple reasons to it.one amercan are desprate to get rid of asama bi ladin infact from alqueda which is imposed on them by their beloved govt .obiviously this is false fairy tale(for amercans at least) is told to them,obviously pakistan has not that frgile defense system as they potray in their media and speches etc.
baaji
May 04, 2011 03:00pm
the american public believes anything!
Moaner
May 04, 2011 03:36pm
Bido, please read the Dawn Editorial. This operation could not have been carried out without Pakistan authorities co-operation. You are so wrong in saying that the Americans have found the evidence. You must be the only one who has seen the 'evidence'. Pakistani authorities cannot admit in public that they had helped the USA in killing Osama, if indeed he was killed. For this attack to take place in a garrison town without anyone reacting to the gunfight which took place there is unthinkable. May be in time WikiLeaks will provide us the truth. All governments lie to fool the public and the world.
DMalik
May 04, 2011 03:46pm
The only Pakistani news paper i like. most of ur write ups are not biased that is good. Once again a very good write up, bringing out the weaknesses of your country; even realizing that there is a fault in the system is a good step because only then can u take a step towards improvement. Pakistan needs a very strong government to put it onto a path of progress, for now it is totally on the opposite track. Wish you all luck.
Atif
May 04, 2011 04:00pm
No wonder it hardly looks anything like Osama.
Altaf Hussein
May 04, 2011 04:13pm
The world's most wanted terrorist is found a few kilometers away from an Army cantonment. And yet the ISI claims that they had no knowledge about it? Give me a break!
A Ibrahim
May 04, 2011 04:56pm
But it still looks good...
sam101
May 04, 2011 05:14pm
American public knew about 'WMD' propaganda by Bush administration... and public did not trust Republicans. Hence, Democrat got chance to rule the country for 4-years and more if Obama will do any good to this country. American public express their trust and no-trust via VOTE and not by bullet.
Riz
May 04, 2011 05:37pm
We want proof that Osama is dead! We want the truth from our government and our army! Army and intelligence was one little hope left for our country, but after this situation i have my doubts! What else does our country have in store for us?
jonathan ( USA )
May 04, 2011 05:50pm
Osama was killed long before. Presently american authrity was seeking to get some points to impress their people to gain support for next election.Obama trying to become superman by killing Osama one more time. So much so body dump into sea which senseless act. I doubt american has killed someone else instead of Osama.
prema sai
May 04, 2011 05:50pm
I understand that you don't like the present government...but to say that "I personally was disappointed in the military and ISI, they are our pride and honestly, they are our most competant leaders" is a joke. Show me one competent activity your army/ISI has ever done.
prema sai
May 04, 2011 05:57pm
While I don't want to believe the reasons explained by USA, I now believe that OSAMA is INDEED DEAD. Pakistani authorities have in their custody Osama's wives/children and they have confirmed Osama's death. The real reason of disposing the body so quickly, maybe, that if they had kept that deadbody, there would be possible reprisal attacks on US in US soil. Or attacks on US interests in other countries.
Luq
May 04, 2011 06:12pm
the cause for concern is that when all this was happening we were still busy in burning vehicles on the streets in Karachi; obviously because some political party man was killed and that creates a window of opportunity for us to destroy property and businesses... we have one of the most corrupt of governments, proven and perhaps that is what we deserve...we are a nation that does not speak when injustice is done; not too long ago, the Sialkot boys episode, we have forgotten it...and more recently the burning of the bus in Sibi with people on board. what do we expect then? to get angels as leaders?? at least the US government protects, works for and stands by its people...we are a divided nation; tu kaun, mein kaun... our elite class cares less whatever happens as long as they are able to go partying and fashioning... what else do we deserve? The Zardaris, Gilanis and likewise!!! Including myself, none of us is there to stand up, be counted and raise his voice... and i dare say that the media is also in the same category; political and viewership mileage is all they count on!!!
Bart Simpson
May 04, 2011 06:15pm
This is not a The Great Deceit but the The Greatest Victory ever for mankind. Lets face it. A terrorist who has killed so many and caused instability to the world is God Willing no more. Let us now look to the future for our children and grandchildren who can all live in peace and harmony in this world. And let the ISI and Pakistan military wake up to the fact that you can fool some people sometimes but you cannot fool all the people all the times. The world has woken up and looks at the Pakistan establishment in a new Dawn.
muhammad
May 04, 2011 06:38pm
i dont care for osama that much......... i wanna know one and one thing alone and that is from our militery how is it that you talk so big of protecting us and our nuclear program and you could not detect 4 helicoptors why are thee is so called blind spots our forces have to explain that to our people .........
Allen
May 04, 2011 07:01pm
As does your media. My original post was apparently "moderated" out of this discussion though it contained no offensive language or inappropriate content. At least what would be considered for a democratic society. I am curious as to whether or not this post will make it through, considering I have questioned the actions of this media outlet.
eddie allen
May 04, 2011 07:57pm
America distrusts Pakistan double dealing. If this was Saudi Arabia or Turkey, the authorities there would have arrested or taken care of Osama Bin Laden a long time ago. At least the risky mission limited the loss of lives. Pakistan cannot use its soveringenty to protect terrorists from justice. This is unjustifiable.
eddie allen
May 04, 2011 08:01pm
Seems to me if this was politically based . President Obama would have waited to near the next election. I think he is dead. Pakistan authorities even say they have his daughter and relatives in custody. They said his young daughter confirmed that she saw the killing of her father, Osama Bin Laden. It would have to be an enormous conspiricy plan or giant gaffe for this not to be true
Wiqas Ahmed
May 04, 2011 08:05pm
Its a very good write up. Looks like we have completely lost our Sovereignty. I really am forced to think, why to spend such big budgets on country border security, how about to spend this money on basic needs like education and health. But disappointing is that the point of discussion among our assemblies is that why the law makers are required educated?? What our politicians have to do with schools?? But always be optimistic.......
Ankit
May 04, 2011 08:06pm
few kilometers away, i beg your pardon , it was less than 800 meters away.
Bob
May 04, 2011 09:07pm
Good article. The truth should be out soon. ISI / Military is questioning OBL's family and they must have also gathered all the evidence from the house. Should be easy for ISI to find out the truth and all other connections that OBL had. It is up to Pakistani's to pressurize the government to tell the truth to its people.
Abid
May 04, 2011 09:08pm
Our incompetence on defense and our intelligence is exposed for everyone to see. Either we knew that he was there or we were so incompetent that we had no clue. Either scenarios are of little meaning as we should realize that our so called sacred institutions are nothing more than an extension of our failure as a nation. Cut off army bufget and throw out corrupt politicians. They have both damaged Pakistan to the brink of extinction.
m. qadeer
May 04, 2011 09:19pm
How about asking for some rolling of heads. Why has the army been silent? Why don't Kayani and Pasha resign or be fired? On any one of the two accounts. If they have collaborated with the US but are silent, then they have betrayed their oath of duty to defend Pakistan. If they were surprised, then for incompetence.
Shahid
May 04, 2011 09:48pm
I suppose we'll have to accept that the Osama Saga will remain ever mysterious as the 9/11 saga. The truth will never come out. It's all strategic, you see.
jan ahmed
May 04, 2011 09:54pm
how did a dialysis patient survive for 7 years without medical aid? dude, you can fool some of the people some of the time, not all of the people all of the time! why, why was mousoulini hung by his feet in the square? wouldn't ground zero be the right place OSAMA rather than a humble burial in the arabian sea? answer, answer!
Jawwad
May 04, 2011 09:58pm
Prema. I can name one. Creation of Bangladesh? As for Shyema, the "It wasn't me and told you so turned out to be BOTH right.
Devendra
May 04, 2011 10:02pm
Baaji, There is an old saying,"It is better to be thought a fool and remain silent, then to spek up and remove all doubts." You spoke up and removed all doubts. You know nothing about us or may be you were talking about Pakistanis like yourself who believe in the "Hindu-Zionist-US Imperailism" theory.
Amerikagulag
May 04, 2011 10:18pm
Good article and good assessment of the true situation with respect to the US and its antics in the middle east. The US imperial crusade never had anything to do with OBL or 911. It was pre-planned for regional dominance and theft of natural resources. All it required was a supposed justification (911) and a boogeyman. Now 911 is in deep question and the boogeyman is dead. Whatever will happen to the crusaders? Their 'moral imperative' no longer exists.
pakistani
May 04, 2011 10:30pm
Donald Trump needs to put in a request for a Death Certificate this time
Junaid
May 04, 2011 10:38pm
Only in Pakistan people can get away with such incompetence. If they were in USA, Kayani and Pasha would have been either fired or asked to appear before Congress to explain their incompetence.
gladifoblsdead
May 04, 2011 10:42pm
and pakistanis dont belive anything.
Rohit Kumar
May 04, 2011 10:56pm
Hi Forget about what the world is saying about Pakistan as of now forget about whether Pakistan Government made a late statement. The questions are If Osama died in Pakistan was he just a smart guy who found a perfect place to hide or did some part of the government help him with it. As people of Pakistan do you think you have a power circles within the Government. Should this be allowed ? Does this existence of hidden hand affects the democracy. Was Osama hurting Pakistanis if yes then who helped him, should they be found and prosecuted as traitors ? Knowing the truth can help building a stronger government and a stronger nation, Otherwise you are not living in a democracy but being used by set of people with hidden strings who create a puppet government for you whenever they want. Power is supposed to belong to people in a real democracy!
Jawwad
May 04, 2011 10:58pm
I am more interested in learning which politicians, military and intelligence personnel were involved with Bin Laden now that the US has confiscated lot of raw data from there?
Iqbal
May 04, 2011 11:02pm
The blame game will go on for sometime, but the fact remains it happened in Pakistan territory next to PMA facilities and the Pakistan Government had " NO INFORMATION " ? I have a few bridges to sell if you believe this. If Pakistan has an iota of self respect it it should immediately take some face saving steps, such as fire the Federal Interior Minister and the top guys at the ISI. This is a disgrace for the Intelligence community.
Anand
May 04, 2011 11:09pm
Who cares whether Bin Laden is alive or dead? Who cares whether he was killed long back or few days back? Who cares if Americans were folled or not? Who cares Al-Queda explodes Atom Bomb or not? Who cares whether there is a Holy war with the west or not? Who cares if there are many Muslims on the street begging for food in Pakistan, Afghanistan or India? Is Al-Queda is bothered? Whether LeT is bothered? hmmm... Forget politicians... Why are we discussing this useless topic and wasting our precious time??
Rehan Khan
May 04, 2011 11:11pm
and the Pakistani public doesn't belive on anything
Aisha
May 04, 2011 11:24pm
Yes because unlike you we never really saw Osama..
Anjum Arshi
May 04, 2011 11:34pm
A great analysis based upon common sense indeed! Congratulations! Your article is a gust of fresh air in the stuffy air filled with lies. Just now Obama decided not to release the photographs either, says he does not wish to hurt Muslims' feelings. Since when he has become so concerned about Islam? The 'sea burial' was also strictly according to Islamic traditions!?! Do it as quickly as possible, they say. Then, they are telling Osama was unarmed but the Americans did not try to capture him alive. Congratulations again, for a great article, when everyone else has taken the bait with line and sinker. And yes, Pakistan's corrupt and imbecile rulers are in it fully.
khalid
May 04, 2011 11:38pm
This is the right time to step out of global war on terror and address more important issues pertinent to our present days challenge like energy crisis and so many more.
Jawwad
May 04, 2011 11:38pm
Just 60 years ago, these very people that you are referring to all of them as terrorists were all Indians. You are so short sighted that you can't even see on these blogs that Pakistanis are most critical of their own governments? Now as far as supporting bin laden; there is not a protest anywhere in Pakistan except some bearded mullahs going about their rants. Your comment speaks of a mind that is been brainwashed, ignorant of reality. Pakistani people are victim of the Pakistani Establishment not part of it.
Sushil
May 04, 2011 11:50pm
Well Written article except "once again assuming Osama was killed yesterday". What evidence you want. US left it there itself, his surviving wife and daughter is living proof.
Kalyan
May 05, 2011 12:25am
What surprises me the most is the reports that DNA evidence compared with family proved a 99% match. Anyone who knows biology can tell you DNA tests take more than a few days. How did they get the sample from Pakistan to a lab and test and compare with another sample from archives and show the results within 24 hours? Unbelievable and impossible.
Hamraz Khan
May 05, 2011 02:09am
The US acknowledges that vital evidence about the location of Bin Laden's trusted courier, which eventually led them to the al-Qa'ida head, came from Pakistani sources, although they insist not from the ISI or the military. But a steady stream of information has been going to the Americans, not least to carry out drone strikes, sometimes targeting so-called Pakistani allies, which indicates that there are those within the security establishment not towing the ISI line.(The Independent) Is it Rehman Malik?
dmlndr
May 05, 2011 02:53am
couldn't agree more. and i live there. i've been following the headlines of these and other foreign exchanges for quite some time. i want the unbiased opinions. thank you.
sAs
May 05, 2011 04:00am
"We did not know Bin Laden was here" = utter incompetence OR White lie "We did not know Americans were coming to get him" = utter incompetence or fooling others "We did know he was here AND we did know the americans were coming = "we just want US to fund us" True or we are kidding ourselves?
Faisal
May 05, 2011 04:05am
Each and every one of us is speculating that either Pakistani intelligence failed or Pakistan was involved in protecting OSAMA. Considering our corrupt leadership why has no one ever questioned whether Americans paid the Pakistani leadership to stage this event with them!! This perfectly explains the silence of the Pakistani regime in the wake of the attack. This also explains how OSAMA could be found in Pakistan's own back yard!! and so on an so forth.....
sam
May 05, 2011 04:15am
agree
Smith
May 05, 2011 05:21am
Do you really believe this? if yes then you are naive
Mustafa Saraj
May 05, 2011 05:33am
All Pakistani should concentrate on Pakistani problems rather than on Osama. Lack of Power, health and Tax. Don't worry about US; their technology is far superior and they can do this type of raid to India or Russia with ease. Concentrate on Pakistan and Pakistan.
umar
May 05, 2011 05:56am
I understand you pain and shame and dissapointment in our corrupt leaders. However, by saying that you will "never" be proud to be a pakistani is just selling yourself short buddy. It is people like you who will seal the last nail in pakistans coffin by writing it off. If our own people dont struggle and try to improve the situation, how will it ever get better??? Just look at whats finally happening in the arab world, if all thsoe peopl thought like you, then the change wouldnt happen...btw I am an Amercican born pakistani
a
May 05, 2011 06:58am
They don't know.
Gautham
May 05, 2011 07:40am
There should be an AK 47 by the side to make it look genuine. Maybe, a styrofoam cave should be built around the head. Finally a flag of ISI should be planted some where nearby.
Naseem
May 05, 2011 08:23am
If Obama was buried on land some fools may have built a shrine US wanted to prevent this Burying him at sea was the best answer.
Alam
May 05, 2011 08:10am
Dear Indian, Yes, our three generations have survived obsessed with India but it will take 3 more generations to cleanse the dirty blood that we have in our streams. The basic foundation of our country was laid on wrong principles and theory - cannot change our history. Regret, both of us have to live with this hate-and-artifical-love relationship between our two countries.
Akhila
May 05, 2011 09:48am
I really feel pity of the situation. All most all the comments from Pakistan say its embarrassing that Laden was in Pak. What I understood is they hate him. Still, some great men in Pakistan say it openly that the support laden. Strange....
kamlesh bhatia
May 05, 2011 09:50am
u will never learn to appriecate arts.. because u believe only in destruction!!
Majid Bashir
May 05, 2011 10:40am
Osma's death in Abotabad, I wonder if there could be more ill-conceived story. Osama killed after a 40 minute gunfight....40 minute gunfight between whom??? 3 adults (excluding Osama who according to the US was unarmed) 8 children and 2 women put up a 40 minute armed resistance against 40 navy seals??? Come on guys It's as much funny as it is weird. Almost everyone in the west is accusing Pakistan of collusion with Al-Qaida without although not a shred of evidence exists that Osama did actually die in the mysterious Abbotabad compound. This is just another Iraq-WMD like rhetoric, possibly a prelude to somthing far more sinister and dangerous.
Syed Ali
May 05, 2011 09:45am
Please do not blame our Military & ISI I still trust them. In the presence of the civil government which is a people's government the military has no place to comment. I am sure Osama was taken out with the help of ISI.American's are not that senseless that they have not taken our Army in confidence before taking such a big step. President Obama has made it clear in his very first speech that this could have not been posssible witout Pakistan help. I am sure our Army has given an okay signal to USA for this mission in the best interest of our country. I do not believe in our corrupt civilian servants but sure I have strong faith in our Pak Army.
Believer
May 05, 2011 11:22am
US Said- He is after 9/11 atacks- No Proof given-We Believed US Said- He is after all Al Qaida Activities-No Proof-We Believe US Said-He is Most dangerous man walking on earth- We Believe US Said- There are WMD in Iraq and invaded the country, killed over 100K people-No Proof-We Believe US Said- He is in Afghanistan, invaded it and killed another few 100K people- No Proof- We Believe NOW IF US is sayeing that he is killed in Pakistan and we will again not give any proof to the world, WHY ARE WE NOT BELIEVING THIIS TIME?
Atiya Usmani
May 05, 2011 10:25am
Im think some innocent people where killed there....
Atiya Usmani
May 05, 2011 10:38am
Nobody knew because no Osama was there....
Atiya Usmani
May 05, 2011 01:10pm
This is the truth ..that no one here in Pakistan knew abt osama and the operation....Coz there was NO osama and there went NO operation....One fine morning Obama gets up n tells the world we killed osama n this is the place where we killed him....Its a lie ...no one knew abt it so they r saying we didnt know....
Fatma
May 05, 2011 01:13pm
Ok, so now i'll go and worship at that sea.
Karan
May 05, 2011 01:36pm
C'mon my friend ! Of course no Pakistani believes even one of the things said by the Americans. You are tolerating them only because of dollars - billions of dollars. Every drone attack, every Aafia / Ramzi Yusuf, every Apache Helicopter sneaking in your airspace has been duly compensated or bribed whichever way you look at it..
AAJ
May 05, 2011 12:45pm
Since when? Have you heard his speeches, in Cairo, in the US, in Malaysia, about Islam? And if bin Laden was not at the compound, then why are the Pakistani authorities claiming that they have his wife and daughter? Is bin Laden's wife living with another man? Do you even believe yourself?
Reason
May 05, 2011 12:46pm
Please avoid just spouting off with exaggerations- it makes you sound ignorant. Accuracy is important. I know many news neworks liked to round the minutes up to 40, but it was specificly reported that 25 Navy Seals made the assult that lasted 38 minutes (that's from 1st man on the ground to last man off the ground). I don't believe it was reported the how long the resistance actually lasted - I suspect not long and that the seals spent nearly half to most of their time on the ground ran-sacking the place looking for as much intel as they could find - which was reported to be 5 computers and 10 hard-drives and thumb-drives.
AAJ
May 05, 2011 12:51pm
I suppose bin laden's wife and child were doing time pass at that compound? Or do you not believe your own government? Do you think the Pakistani government is trying to embarrass themselves and the ISI, by claiming that they have his family in custody? The American public has the sense to see when something is obvious, and the alternative is ridiculous. If bin Laden were not at the compound, all he has to do is release a tape stating that he wasn't in Abottabad on May 1st, and the entire US credibility would go down the tubes.
xyz
May 05, 2011 01:19pm
US has acheived its objective - whether you believe or NOT, does not matter to them or the rest of the world !
Vinod
May 05, 2011 01:28pm
What a wonderful article. But I guess we the so called "educated " class world wide have an habit of dissecting commenting and analyzing but never taking upon ourselves to clear the mess be it in our house or in our country. With such a powerful speech why don't you extol citizens to rise and clean before the stink would become unbearable.
Waqas Aftab
May 05, 2011 01:34pm
Ummm... Can anybody please tell me if ISPR still exists? And did our Army get dissolved too? Something like this goes down and not a SINGLE word!? It has been three days now!
razak
May 05, 2011 03:49pm
No problem, madam, unless you get inspired by him and start killing innocents.
Bharat
May 05, 2011 04:41pm
How ever did Pakistan ever creep into this corner ?
bharat
May 05, 2011 04:48pm
They may be yours and most of Pakistan's pride and joy- But they have also been the people who are well known for their duplicity and dishonesty. And at the end of the day - as the Americans say - Give them enough rope and they will hang themselves
Peaceforall
May 05, 2011 04:57pm
While the article from Shyema Sajjad is both thought provoking and raises vital issues for all. This comment from Bashir demanding a vital need to translate thoughts into action is the need of the hour/ day etc ...you get the drift. Wish you the very best so long as the result is peace for all. A well wisher across the border.
Maulik
May 06, 2011 12:05am
What are you talking about?
Ricky
May 06, 2011 12:18am
I believe Osama's body was bought there and drama was created.Osama may have died long time ago. Us admin was waiting for a right time to disclose it and also to put pressure on Pakistan to distance itself from Taliban.Elections are due in November 2012 in USA and Obama needed some boost to bring his popularity up which he did.Corrupt Pak Army and polititians are embarrasment to people of pakistan with US dollars intheir pockets.it is USA who made Govt and Army in Pakistan corrupt for their own interest.
Sandip
May 06, 2011 12:30am
Till the time Pakistanis' come out of their "denial" mode
Ricky
May 06, 2011 12:34am
US must stop giving monetary Aid to pakistan.Corrupt polititians and Bureacrats are pocketing all that money coming in.People of Pakistan are not getting anything from US Aid.People are committing suicide and also commit crimes to feed their children.62 years are enough to loot this poor country by these corrupt polititians.it has to stop now.if people of Pakistan will not come out against these THUGS like Egyptians,yemenis,libyans and Syrians have done then they better don't cry and keep suffering.
Sandip
May 06, 2011 12:39am
And you also believe that Mumbai attacks were carried out by Indians and Pakistan (land of pure) has nothing to do with it?
jay
May 06, 2011 12:47am
your own govet confirmed Osama's "25" wife who is 25 years old is still alive and confirmed , " my husband is dead" what other proof do you need? so why dont you open your eyes and the evil that lives in your own back yard and around you!! Why dont you bring back the million or something paki's live in the USA?
david
May 06, 2011 12:52am
precisely
S.Paul
May 06, 2011 03:31am
Very well said Vinay! This article is just raising questions which are so unnecessary in view of the evidence lying open for everyone to see. Pakistani people are once again being kept by this kind of doubts instead of making them aware of the mess, the country is in! All friends in pakistan, the great people of a great nation - please realise that your government is robbing you, taking away from you the right of a peaceful life! You need to make a people's movement - find a suitable and trustworthy leader, leave behind your corrupt leadershipm and unite to form a government that is honest and democratic! All the best wishes to the Pakistani people for a bright future!
humayun ilahi
May 06, 2011 05:17am
IF we say we knew we are in trouble . If we say we helped we are in greater trouble. IF we say we knew nothing we are in more trouble because how can nuclear weapons be left in the hands of incompetent people. SO PAK is between a rock and a hard place. WE should do things right next time . BUT can we do it?
Ali
May 06, 2011 06:53am
justice must be served to all equally and law must be followed and implemented equally and that is all everyone is asking. Lets not let one thug take away our freedom rights.
Chethan Prabhu
May 06, 2011 09:16pm
Pakistanis should focus on what has happened to their country since independence. Pakistan had a much higher GDP than India at Independence. Over the past 50 years, Indian GDP has grown to a multiple of Pakistan's (even with a higher population!) whereas Pakistan has stagnated. This is the real tragedy of Pakistan...
DB
May 06, 2011 11:11pm
Osama's neighbor tweeted it live. Don't be a fool. Osama bin Laden is dead and he will remain dead. He deserved to be dead.
Franz
May 07, 2011 04:36am
Believer says: May 5, 2011 (2 days ago) at 11:22 am US Said- He is after 9/11 atacks- No Proof given-We Believed answer Al Qaida has admitted publicly they where behind 9/11 US Said- He is after all Al Qaida Activities-No Proof-We Believe ? US Said-He is Most dangerous man walking on earth- We Believe Answer Maybe he is maybe he isn't there are a lot of bad leaders in the world (Kim Jong Il anyone?) US Said- There are WMD in Iraq and invaded the country, killed over 100K people-No Proof-We Believe 100ks of people? Where do you get your facts? Al Qaida? US Said- He is in Afghanistan, invaded it and killed another few 100K people- No Proof- We Believe Again these ar100ks? and he was in Afghanistan, Tor Bora. NOW IF US is sayeing that he is killed in Pakistan and we will again not give any proof to the world, WHY ARE WE NOT BELIEVING THIIS TIME? answer You should Al Qaida announced today he is dead.
Siraj Khan
May 07, 2011 08:37am
Until the man himself does not pronounce himself dead.
ladybug
May 07, 2011 09:21am
The whole story keeps changing in the USA., I don't know how anyone can believe it. For one, if the president, Hillary Clinton, and others were watching an assassination taking place, wouldn't it be recorded? couldn't they have frozen even one picture of OBL right before he died? There has been no proof of anything. I know a lot of people here don't believe it. Many believe it because they trust major news. Even the Republicans haven't said anything. Its very creepy and scary to us that know its all a hoax. I think the average American is brainwashed by our media.
Bong
May 07, 2011 10:22am
heheh!! Mr. J from USA please watch serials on your TV...you can come up with better conspiracy theories...
bong
May 07, 2011 10:24am
copious amount of shame mr. riz....and this will help you to think hard....what the priorities of this country should be....
EDDIE ALLEN
May 07, 2011 10:33am
I doubt pakistan knew of Osama whereabouts even though he was right under their noses in a town full of military people. Osama lived there 5 years I understand, right under their noses, where nobody would think to look for him. It was genius, and it worked for 5 yars. Now, really, if pakistani authorities knew where Osama was hiding out, IT WOULD HAVE GOTTEN OUT IN 5 YEARS. There was a 25 million dollar reward on his head. Someone would have taken the money in 5 years. Osama was a genius , an evil genius, this plan worked so well for him, he probably thought he was safe.
Sohail Khan
May 07, 2011 03:51pm
Pakistan needs to make religion a very private matter - so Osamas & company do not matter any more. We need to learn from China.
Pat
May 08, 2011 01:03am
The US says he is dead. Al Qaida says he is dead. The Taliban says he is dead. His wife says he is dead. His daughter says that she saw him killed. Continue with your conspiracy theories and denial. Continue to be more concerned with shame rather than right and wrong. Continue to wonder why you are not respected.
L
May 08, 2011 01:58am
As someone who was born in the US, there is much debate and embarrassment over the pictures of the "celebrations in the streets" that are being seen all over the world. And it is as displeasing and repugnant to some Americans as it is to those who watch outside the borders. But as is often the case, the loudest and most crude people always seem to make the news. But it is a disgrace. My family and I did not rejoice. Death is death. Period.
Aqil Siddiqi
May 08, 2011 12:09pm
Don't be so harsh. You have no right to say "Bring back the millions of Paki's back home from U.S". You think, you don't have problems. You are lucky, not living next door to Afghanistan, otherwise, you would be in the mess too. You have no idea, what price we have paid, for being a good neighbour to that country. Not trying to deny our social ills, and our inept leadership, but Pakistan's problem has been doubled by the foreign factors too.
bharat
May 08, 2011 12:21pm
Perhaps you should start by suggesting this to General Kayani
Aqil Siddiqi
May 08, 2011 12:22pm
The whole nation is corrupt. What do you expect, accountabilty????.
Bharat
May 08, 2011 12:27pm
We don't know when Pakistan started going wrong. But in most of the rest of the world , statements of importance made by politicians are checked out , and conclusions drawn from evidence available. They are not taken at face value. AND therefore , Politicians are always careful to be honest. BUT the I.S.i is never questioned - it does not need to get elected, - and it always has a blind belief in service to Pakistan being ALWAYS good for Pakistan... But it does not feel that people should be the judge of anything they do.
farooque
May 08, 2011 04:31pm
Our policy making is in Army or more precisely in ISI hand. Politicians boast as they may are helpless orphans only to enjoy official residences, transport or other perks. However, irony of matter is that policies made by ISI (please recall all foreign policy issues since independence of Pakistan) have helped India and damaged Pakistan and we now deep in mess.
Raju
May 08, 2011 11:30pm
It was a 40 minute operation. 40 minutes!!! Did not the local police wake up and come to the place where gunfight was going on, grenades were being thrown. Or even the Military Police from the nearby Academy? How complacent can one be?
AQuestionofAQuestion
May 09, 2011 12:59pm
I believe he is asking "Who cares whether Bin Laden is alive or dead? Who cares whether he was killed long back or few days back? Who cares if Americans were folled or not? Who cares Al-Queda explodes Atom Bomb or not? Who cares whether there is a Holy war with the west or not? Who cares if there are many Muslims on the street begging for food in Pakistan, Afghanistan or India? Is Al-Queda is bothered? Whether LeT is bothered? hmmm… Forget politicians… Why are we discussing this useless topic and wasting our precious time??" Do you have an answer to that, Sir?
Mouli
May 09, 2011 08:29pm
Thank you Ms. Sajjad, for a very good article. This is not the first time Pakistan is in such an embarrassing situation. Its problems are also not new. Pakistani citizens just seem to silently witness what the rulers+military+terrorists do. One question I have is, will the Pakistani citizens ever want to do an Egypt and save their country or let the status quo to prevail?