Pakistani laws prohibiting underage marriage un-Islamic: CII
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ISLAMABAD: The Council of Islamic Ideology (CII) concluded its 191th meeting, here Tuesday with the ruling that the laws related to minimum age of marriage were un-Islamic and that children of any age could get married if they attain puberty.
At the conclusion of two day meeting, Chairman CII Maulana Muhammad Khan Sheerani noted that the laws related to marriage too were unfair and there cannot be any age of marriage.
However, he explained that there were two segments of marriage – nikah and ruksati, while nikah could be performed at any age.
“Even the minors can have nikah but that has to be executed by the guardians,” chairman CII said adding, “But ruksti could be executed only after attaining the age of puberty.”
He said that the age of puberty varies from individuals to individuals and it was the responsibility of guardians to have ruksati soon the child attains the age of puberty.
“The laws limiting the age for both the segments of marriage are unIslamic and needed to be rectified,” he added.
Officials told Dawn that the council members discussed various historic references related to marriage and concluded that each girl has different age of reaching puberty.
The officials were asked if the international conventions signed by Pakistan related to child marriage would be violated after this ruling by CII.
Responding to the query the official said that the international conventions cannot be in contradiction to the constitution of the country or Islam and if they were, those particular clauses would not apply on Pakistan.
The CII meeting also suggested to the government that ‘nikah’ registrars should have a certain level of qualification.
“Not everyone should be allowed to become a Nikah Registrar,” Maulana Sheerani demanded the government, “While the fee for registration of Nikahnama should also be abolished.”
The CII had on earlier day suggested the government to change Muslim marriage laws as it required Muslim male to seek permission from the previous wife or wives for another marriage.
Meanwhile, the Pakistan Peoples Party’s (PPP) human rights cell has expressed concern over the CII rulings.
“Why is Council concerned with men’s four marriages and why have they done nothing to ensure that women get their property as enshrined in Islamic Law? Or why have they failed to stop practices such as vani, swara and karo kari? Or stop rape, and acid crimes against women?” asked Dr Nafisa Shah, coordinator PPP’s human rights cell.
“Unfortunately Islam has been misinterpreted over a period of time by a mindset and a particular school of thought. Islam and modernism are compatible provided progressive scholars interpret the religion,” she added.
The PPP human rights cell has called upon the government to include progressive Islamic scholars in the council so that women’s rights and the rights of all are protected.
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On DawnNews
Comments (203) Closed
Mar 11, 2014 04:49pm
The direction in which we are going is making me very nervous.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:49pm
People like you are the reason this country is a mess.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:49pm
Which planet does these people live on?
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Mar 11, 2014 04:57pm
Yes, whenever a person needs to marry, he / she should be allowed to do so. its a biological fact that human and animals start having sexual desires on reaching the age of puberty. And attainment of puberty is different in different person. Some attain it early while other attain it late. If a person is having sexual desires, he/she should be allowed to satisfy it by marriage. Otherwise, practically you are forcing her/him to commit premarital sex.
There is no scientific basis of minimal marriage age prescribed by law, it is arbitrary and should be removed.
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Mar 11, 2014 04:58pm
Is this the beginning of making our constitution Sharia Compliant .
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Mar 11, 2014 04:59pm
Nonesense, Islam clearly highlights the age of consent, which starts from the time when Soum Roza) and Salat (namaz) become complusory. Majority of these people sitting on CII are from hardliner Salafi/Wahabi school of thought - their laws are based on arab tradition rather than islamic jurisprudinance.
The author should list the name of each member of CII and their knowledge and experience in giving fatwas. This country is going down to rots !!
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Mar 11, 2014 05:00pm
Even when this country going thru so much pain and suffering,these mullahs are only thinking about how to get more pleasure out of laws which favours their life style.Shame on you mullahs.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:00pm
The very last words make you take a sigh of relief, phew!!
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Mar 11, 2014 05:02pm
Is this the beginning of making our constitution Sharia Compliant ?
How much money do we spend every year on CII ? They are coming up with so pertinent solution to the problems this nation is facing.We must enhance their budgets 200 times so they can put their hearts and minds into their work and resolve all our issues.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:02pm
i don't believe it.. this country is going through some severe crises and these people putting there efforts in these things.. unreal !!
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Mar 11, 2014 05:03pm
Is this really the most burning issue facing Pakistan right now??? We seriously need Kamal Ataturk or Stalin right now to 'talk' some sense into these mullahs.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:05pm
These molanas are not serving Islam. Infact, they are damaging it
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Mar 11, 2014 05:07pm
Bravo!! We are headed in the right direction. They should have announced this "nugget" a few days earlier - on International Women's Day.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:07pm
Under age marriages lead to unhealthy families. women married early suffer from intimate partner violence, abuse, dangers to life during pregnancy, child birth and afterwards. As they have long fertility window period during their life spans they give rise to unhealthy and uneducated children who would go on to become burden on country. The religious gmtdjggdmtga which do not consider the dynamics eand needs of changing times will lose the trust of followers. its time they understand this today.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:08pm
Please for God's sake.. Islam and Quran were found 1400 years ago. The socio-economic situation during that time was very different. Please be little progressive. Muslims from Arab and Pakistan give a bad name to Islam. Y cant you guys be progressive and secular like Indonesia.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:13pm
Very sadden day again. This is where illiteracy can be seen in Pakistan. These puppets should have read at least Science in Matric.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:18pm
A child by nature is just that, a child! Marriage brings responsibilities. Are these people (and those who agree with them) trying to say that children should be stripped of their innocent, playful childhood? Do they think any child is capable of dealing with the kind of commitment and responsibilities marriage brings? The biggest dilemma our society faces is the lack of understanding about marriage and what it entails. If these mullahs think they can inculcate that understand in young minds then they are deeply mistaken.
Such open ended statements are only misunderstood and misused by people. The council needs to abide by some serious precautions here.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:20pm
Arab culture being imposed on us
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Mar 11, 2014 05:21pm
Good going, so child molesters can use this argument to buy/force marry a child! once married they can enforced "rukhsati" as its their wife now! For a marriage a consent is a must, how can child consent to her marriage?
Certainly these people need some serious lessons.
I wonder what will be their thoughts, if some one ask hand for their under age daughters as 2nd wife. That will make them realise!
Sanity prevails as their thoughts cant be law straight away in Pakistan. Thanks to Allah! but it raise serious question mental fitness of these men!
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Mar 11, 2014 05:22pm
Brilliant! Thank you, thank you, thank you CII. You do us proud every time you meet!
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Mar 11, 2014 05:26pm
I am absolutely disgusted. Pak is going down with each passing day thanks to fundamentalists like these and still all they can think of is to take exception that pedophilia is not allowed. We need secularism, not this nonsense.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:29pm
@Akram:
They are living on the same planet as you do perhaps they are your neighbours too.
These clerics are one of the pillars on which Pakistan was founded. So no need to complain!
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Mar 11, 2014 05:29pm
Muslims of Arabs back in our Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H. had very little fresh water at disposal and therefore it was accepted in an Arab's culture not to take a daily fresh water.
CII - please pass a resolution that Pakistani's must not take a daily fresh water bath as well. See you have very strong reason to support that, people are dying in Tharparkar!
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Mar 11, 2014 05:30pm
Who are the members of CII and what are their credentials to issue any FATWAS related to the whole UMMAH?
Their FATWAS also need to be vetted under acceptable protocols. They should be forced to cite the sources for their opinion and academically defend their position. I am convinced most of them will not be able to do that because they are just "political appointees" without any personal or intellectual merit.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:32pm
We need to condemn this kind of decision making. Those kids have choice to do whatever they want in their life. No one should be able to decide for them. This is why education is the key in those tribal and rural part of Pakistan..
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Mar 11, 2014 05:36pm
@abdul:
I think majority of people hit puberty around the age which is currently stated in the law, so this invalidates your argument in my opinion. Secondly, how would you stop underage marriages in rural areas where people in local panchayat make the decision to marry the girl who is not even in her teens from other tribe to a 60 year old man and all this is done in the name of religion. The only way to stop this is to have minimum marriage age defined however, we all know how much implementation of the law is done in our society.
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Mar 11, 2014 05:39pm
Why everyone blaming Islamic scholar So called Mullah . They are doing right according to Islamic Law . Don't Kill the messenger , if you don't like the message .
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Mar 11, 2014 05:41pm
Sitting on chairs, drinking bottled water, using tissue papers etc. etc. is not un-Islamic???
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Mar 11, 2014 05:43pm
WOW! Bravo! alright so what exactly is the need of the hour? getting married and debating on marital age or saving Pakistan from terrorism and currupt politics? im baffled to read this today, Just shows exactly how intellectual these men are. Their biggest concern is marrige haha totaly amused! Plus lets not twist and turn Islam here people just because their friends want to get narried to a 13 year old. PATHETIC
First know why things were done by the Prophet (SAW) all his actions had deep wisdom and had alot of pre-conditions. Even if it was a practice back then rest assure, the Sahabas were the best of people. This men who think they can twist and turn islam according to their liking and quite frankly we all are to be blammed too because we didnt read the Quran with will to understand it or the hadiths. SO what they will do is just because we dont have the knowledge they will quote a verse and we frankly would know the detailed explination to that, hence when they will quite it we are speechless. Islam is an Ocean of knowledge so for us to be able counter these mindsets we need to understand it better in the light of Quran Sunnah.
Islam is the most flexible religon and rememeber it the religon for all times to come, take the hint!
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Mar 11, 2014 05:47pm
The respectful Molanas may be right; however there are other burning social issues on which we need their guidance.
Starting from enforcing Islamic laws on corruption, creating a welfare society that our religion has prescribed in which all have equal rights irrespective of gender, race, status and age,where ruler is more accountable than ordinary person.
People are dying because of hunger, lawlessness which is due to inequality in our society and irresponsible attitude of our rulers and our Molana
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Mar 11, 2014 05:48pm
If such is the impact of Sharia law, no sane man would want it, or would he? People in Pakistan deserve such archaic laws, customs - they want to live in caves it seems. Neandrathals ? Such glorious pronouncements!
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Mar 11, 2014 05:58pm
Jinnah's dream coming true.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:03pm
This should be a wake up call for all and that we should collectively call for separation of state and religion. Time to disband this group and send the members packing.
Perhaps, we should bring back slavery, (a.k.a those whom your right hand possess in the Quran) because Islam does not prohibit that also.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:08pm
Go ride on camels. And someone please take the cars from them.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:08pm
Please first and than write your comments......
Your views may change.
Thank you,
Khan
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Mar 11, 2014 06:09pm
Please read first!
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Mar 11, 2014 06:12pm
@abdul:
as it is desired by man to have more than one partner, so we let him do it. Similarly according to the laws of nature, woman can also desire more than one partner. Would it be ok, why not.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:19pm
@saeeds:
Messenger ? These are the ones who have destroyed my Country. I bet you would be one of those perverts too, who wants a young child wife to justify your kinks.
Shame on you.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:23pm
It is interesting that all these religious scholars try to reduce women status in one way or the others. They don,t talk about poverty,violence,justice for alls,equality for every one,economic growth,health issues,education and so many other social issues. I think government should fire them for doing a bad job.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:27pm
@saeeds:
Ok so kill the message you mean?
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Mar 11, 2014 06:27pm
We can't let them sit there and make such pronouncements - challenge them in court - ridiculous set of people!
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Mar 11, 2014 06:29pm
Really first make peoples follow the old law then make new laws.What difference do the name or ideology of the law make when its not gonna be obeyed.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:46pm
It would appear that, by their own logic, CII should now recommend abolishing anti-slavery laws as well.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:46pm
Who formed CII? Obviously, the super-usurper Zia-ul-Haq. Nobody had the courage to do away with institutions like CII ever since. I read many articles in Dawn blaming ZA Bhutto or Zia ul Haq for taking steps that have changed shape of 1973 constitution from secular to Islamic (like declaration of one particular group of Pakistanis as a minority, making Objectives Resolution a formal part of the constitution, etc.). To me, it is the Pakistani nation that has not understood the importance of keeping state and religion separate. It was the duty of political leaders like ZAB and BB to educate the masses on this. Alas, Pakistan has descended into religious extremism over the last few years. Sadly enough, Pakistani media has not played a very positive role on this front as well.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:50pm
@Bakhtawer Bilal:
Have you saw the people sitting around the table? Any females there? That is why this barbarianism goes on and on.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:51pm
@Seedoo:
Wonderfully said brother.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:51pm
Frankly speaking, I feel pity for these Mullahs, not because they are ignorant but because they have been educated about a version of Islam that is not relevant anymore. They are doing whatever they have been taught, or whatever they have read in books published by their peers or the peers of their peers.
Islam needs reforms, to stay relevant in the globalized world, if it does not want to be a laughing stock in the comity of religions.
Islam was supposed to be a thinking, organic, forward-looking and vibrant religion. These Mullahs are refusing to open their eyes and use their minds. They are "Lakeer K Faqeer" in the true sense of the phrase.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:52pm
Would they agree to give their own 8 or 9 year daughter to marry 50 year old man.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:53pm
This "fatwa" represents the need to adopt secularism. Try to make an "Islamic State", and hundreds of fatwas similar to these are waiting for us mates.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:53pm
Yes agreed. But neither does Islam forbid a state to enact laws for the general good of the society. The state of Pakistan has all the right to protect it's people from the evil that is unfortunately pervasive in our society. So, I beg to disagree.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:54pm
This is just the beginning of Taliban Sharia. Get it?
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Mar 11, 2014 06:55pm
@Adnan:
Yeah exactly yaar, they are soooo right
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Mar 11, 2014 06:56pm
Maulana
these pictures are also un-islamic, when you doing modeling in front of cameras.
And also having paid job to serve religion is also very un-islamic, which you took up very happily.
and all the pleasures of life are also un-Islamic, which you are enjoying, big houses, huge cars and a belly full of meals.
CII should be done away with. This useless parasitic breeding ground is an ugly comprise between popular politics with the powers of Mullahs.
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Mar 11, 2014 06:57pm
To a non-Pakistani and a modern, non-religious thinker, this seems crazy.
How can you tolerate such people in your country?
It's very dangerous to have both nuclear weapons AND some members of your society who live in the Stone Age.
How will you deal with this problem?
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Mar 11, 2014 07:01pm
And today I would like to officially thank all those blinded and provincially biased voters who voted for the two most pro Taliban parties(one actually bring a proxy rather "dummy" govt for Saudi Arabia) and have completely sealed Pakistan's fate as the next Afghanistan. Thank you all! "Pakistan kaa Allah hee Hafiz!"
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Mar 11, 2014 07:03pm
CII is an undemocratic (and anachronistic) institution. They've no right to second guess legislation. This body should be dispensed of ASAP.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:06pm
As if we did not have enough problems(Taliban), here comes another bunch of misfits trying to teach us. Why cant they leave us to practicing Islam the way we want. At the end it will be between me and God.They will not have to answer for my sins! So in this day and age...Everyone for themselves(in religious POV)
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Mar 11, 2014 07:07pm
@Talat H. :
CII, bunch of jokers. They does not comprehend and no logic is good enough. Only God can help them. I will pray for them as they are making wrong decision with good intension. If only they can understand the damage caused by them due to poor understanding of religion I am sure they would make such pronouncements.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:10pm
@noon:
Physiological age of puberty is declining. That should not change our perception of a child's capacity of acting as an adult.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:11pm
Secular west imposes age limit on marriage but imposes no limit on the number of girl friends or mistresses a man can keep.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:12pm
I am happy to see that Sunni / Shia Ulema at least agree on age of marriage and having more than one :)
Good beginning..............
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Mar 11, 2014 07:15pm
@Adnan:
They are not right and there is NO "may be". They are close minded molvies who are not open for logic.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:19pm
It's the culture/mindset that these Mullahs' have grown up in. I suggest this very shamefully but have each of their daughter married at 5 and rukhsat her the first day she hits puberty. Two generations or so later, after they have seen the suffering their poor daughters have gone through in life, these shameful and low-lifes might change their thinking.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:24pm
@Saad:
Learn to respect the Ulema. How much religion have you learnt? Do you know Arabic? Have you learnt Arabic Grammar to understand Quran directly? Do you know the opinions of the Sahaba about all the ayaat of the Quran? Do you know Hadith? Do you know Usool-e-Fiqh? Do you know Usool-e-Tafseer? We are absolutely not eligible to discuss the rulings of Fiqh amongst ourselves. This is the job of Ulema.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:25pm
Pakistan must become a secular country. Otherwise, it is doomed.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:27pm
@ABA:
what do you think is wrong here? Marriage in Islam is about protecton for women. Husband in islam is required to provide for the wife and take care of her emotional and physical needs. there are right of wife on a husband and rights of husband on a wife. unless you fully understand what marriage is in islam this will sound crazy to you. Also keep in mind the consummation of marriage is only allowed after reaching puberty. In islam its recomended to marry early to prevent social problems in the society. islam is not about just individuality but it is a system that ensures healthy societies.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:30pm
Under islamic shariah though under age marriage by a wali of the minor is permitted, upon attaining puberty - before rukhsati - the girl has an unconditional right to revoke the contract - pls state all the facts in your news filings.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:30pm
There are so many so called liberal Pakistanis who keep changing the meaning of Quranic verses. Perhaps, it is their way of reconciling their rational thinking with the divine revelations. In one sense what the elders in the council have done is to give some permanence and clarity to Sharia. This should be welcomed.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:36pm
Can anyone list some of the practical/progressive steps ever suggested by this committee for the greater good of the people.
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Mar 11, 2014 07:42pm
Welcome to beginning of 14th century. These mullahs are the relics, always ready to downgrade the status of women, only point, on which they always agree.
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Mar 11, 2014 08:03pm
Nikah without consent of the people getting married isn't permitted. How can they possibly ensure that a minor has enough sense to know weather he/she should agree to something that will bind them for life? Appears as though they are trying to hold on to old customs rather than Islam. When Islam does not specifically talk on a subject such as age, I believe we are meant to use our common sense and better judgement. Am I missing something?!
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Mar 11, 2014 08:03pm
@aa:
You are totally missing the point. In the west girls are more vocal and able to resist. In the east the societal culture is such that even adult girls have difficulty resisting. How many girls do you know that walked away from a Nikah ceremony? It becomes a lifelong tragedy.
The point of law is to provide support and a voice to the weak based on current practices. That is why laws change over time as society evolves. Islamic law is similar, the law is fixed, but its application has always been debated and modified to suit the current environment.
In the past 200 years the trend to align the law with the current practice has declined. The status quo is to follow the law as practiced in the first 150 years of Islam. By doing that we ridicule every faqih, qazi, aalim who came after.
These people are no different. True there is no minimum age for marriage, but does not mean we cannot have one. Where does it say that? Is it harram?
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Mar 11, 2014 08:05pm
It is decisions like this that make Pakistan seem like such a backward country to the rest of the world. We need to start using our heads and make something of ourselves. These old men should have realised that by saying that you are essentially condemning the entirety of women into a marriage at the age of say five. These girls will not have the faintest idea of what marriage is because they are far too young to understand it. Maybe we should do what the Turks do and have a minimum age of marriage of 18 for males and 17 (with parental consent) for females.
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Mar 11, 2014 08:15pm
From the picture, all sects seems united on this. To all the people criticizing this, please elaborate that you disagree with the which part? People having in-depth knowledge of these studies seem to agree with all this. Or you disagree with their interpretation of the holy principles in which case you should present some daleels(from Islamic literature) that things are suppose to be otherwise.
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Mar 11, 2014 08:21pm
I am so glad that the body can only recommend. If there is no bar on child marriages it doesn't mean that they should be practiced. The law of the land does not forbid multiple marriages it simply legalizing them by getting permission from the partner.
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Mar 11, 2014 08:22pm
**The Council of Islamic Ideology** can waste time on underage marriage but spends **NO** time on issues that are dividing Muslims like the Shia/Sunni conflict. Are these ancient scholars reached the end of their mindless interpretation ? Underage marriage guarantees **older men acting as pedophiles** against young women. When do women get a say on what is accepted by The Council of Islamic Ideology whose time for interpretation has expired. Isn't it time in this modern age we retire **The Council of Islamic Ideology**
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Mar 11, 2014 08:30pm
What is the issue with "underage" marriage? The age of sexual consent varies from 15 years to 19 years worldwide and only became part of international norm in 1962 through a UNGA resolution (signed by about 50 states). Marriage in Islam is not merely sexual gratification, but a wholesome set of responsibilities, rights and duties. An old man unable to care for his daughter, or in a war zone, may set a legal guardian for her through marriage (which can be revoked if she disproves after attaining puberty). It is more of a case of protection of women than subjecting them to sexual ordeal (as pointed out consummation is not permissible before puberty). As usual, the "liberals" in this country view every orthodox Islamic injunction from the spectacle of modern "law" half baked a few decades ago in the West.
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Mar 11, 2014 08:32pm
@Irfan: As a counter question, is there anything wrong with giving their 8 or 9 year olds in marriage to 8 or 9 year old boys, if the couples wants to start a married relationship? This is the fundamental issue, rather than age difference. If someone wants to get married to whoever they wish, what is your issue?
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Mar 11, 2014 08:35pm
We now have a full fledge battle of ideas in Pakistan: the battle between those who want to remain in past, because they are too coward to see the future and those looking at the future.
I don
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Mar 11, 2014 08:36pm
Congratulations. .why do you need TTP when you have CII?
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Mar 11, 2014 08:43pm
Before nikah it is mandatory to confirm girl's willingness by accepting(or rejecting) the would-be groom. Only a mature girl can make such a decision. That means there is no bar on love marriage in islam. But in a tribal mindset the girl is not allowed to make independent decisions. It is no use imposing tribal culture in the name of islam.
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Mar 11, 2014 08:44pm
@Saad:
good luck to the people who want to live in Pakistan and in the present at the same time.....
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Mar 11, 2014 08:47pm
Surah Nisa (4:3) "And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice."
If we concentrate on the verse above it can clearly be understood that "Men" are allowed to marry more than once "IF" (that is, there is a condition that "if") they are able to treat the wives equally and justly! Now WOULDN'T "injustice" begin right from the moment when a man gets married without the first wife's concern?
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Mar 11, 2014 08:51pm
@syed:
NO one can help them.... Bad Decision and good intention, I think not... They are implementing what they see Islam to be....
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Mar 11, 2014 08:52pm
@nak:
Well, currently its failing miserably to "ensure" healthy societies as you metioned. But than it depends what you refer to as "healthy".
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Mar 11, 2014 08:52pm
Thank you CII for making Pakistan a laughing stock in the world.
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Mar 11, 2014 08:57pm
Government should breakup or disband this group and label its recommendations against the spirit of Islam.
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Mar 11, 2014 09:00pm
As a young child I was told that "Islam is the last message and it's good for all times". What I understood from that was that there are general guiding principals that you can probably say are not dependant on time. But some people seem to get totally the wrong end of the stick. I wonder how they justify using all the amenities of the modern world.
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Mar 11, 2014 09:04pm
@aa:
How can a 12 year old revoke an arrangement sanctioned by her parents? Please put some common sense in your justifications.
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Mar 11, 2014 09:04pm
Mullahs have already wrecked this country to a tipping point...why not push it further and let Pakistan cease to exist as we know it!
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Mar 11, 2014 09:29pm
If Pakistan has Mullah Raaj, no flushing toilets, no tap water, no stove, no fridge, no phones, no cars, no bicycle, no watches, no radios, no TVs, soldiers not allowed to use any weapons except swords and ride only camels. All inventions are work of Shaitaan (Devil) and those who follow Shitaan should be flogged.
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Mar 11, 2014 09:37pm
It's good to see majority positive and progressive comments in this section.
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Mar 11, 2014 09:38pm
I am sure Pakistanis would love such a thing. It looks like Taliban/sectarian violence/etc are not important right now, but relaxation of rules such as these. For a rabidly mullah nation, they deserve it.
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Mar 11, 2014 09:38pm
First question is that by what standards are these mullahs called scholars.
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Mar 11, 2014 09:41pm
They should get an independent thinking practising muslim women representation on the Council. Surely that is a good idea considering there is history of women having an opinion and that too respected by their peers from very early times of Islam. I would like to hear what the women on the council have to say about both these injunctions. No disrespect to the gentlemen but such delicate decisions without opinions from the women will always look dodgy and open to criticism. As per the webpage of CII out of 20 council members including the chairman there is only one women reserved seat and that too has fallen vacant due to the unfortunate demise of the council member. It has not been filled since August 2013. Under such circumstances the council should have waited for a replacement as well as having atleast 25% female representation before making such far-reaching and important decisions about the furture of women.
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Mar 11, 2014 09:59pm
The government should close this 'council', and use the money for something positive like a school. Giving a platform to backward people like this is a waste of public funds.
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Mar 11, 2014 09:59pm
Would you look at these RELICS sitting around the table? Would you listen to them; leave aside taking advise from them.
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Mar 11, 2014 10:00pm
@aa:
Just because you reach the age of puberty does not mean that you have the mental capacity to understand the concept of marriage. A 13 year old..just starting to achieve maturity and you want to bind them with someone into a lifetime commitment. What kind of a lifestyle is this? Not a very good one. You are only going to trap the child.
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Mar 11, 2014 10:18pm
The only time these "Firqas" are in agreement with each other is on something which is wrong.
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Mar 11, 2014 10:36pm
@Noor:
Islam does not need any reforms. It is a perfect divine religion. The reform is needed in the followers of Islam. The gate keepers of Islam, whom we refer to as "Mullahs" a term that a lot of muslim now use to insult them needs a little up dating. But insulting them and calling them names is not the answer. These people who are serving our religion should be respected but not followed blindly.
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Mar 11, 2014 10:53pm
@Rao: "These clerics are one of the pillars on which Pakistan was founded. So no need to complain!"
For your information, Pakistan was formed as a secular state. Unfortunately, it was hijacked by the Mullahs with the help of dictators like Zia. May be this is what's thought in schools in India but there is no truth in it.
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Mar 11, 2014 10:59pm
@pathanoo
The irony is that you can call them dinosaurs or whatever you want , you and thousand of others can smirk and laugh at them but ultimately the spineless government will listen to them and you will live under the laws these people propose.
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Mar 11, 2014 11:31pm
Bad mullahs with long beards sitting in a room.
Making decisions belonging in 8th century.
They look well fed, well kept by whoever is
supporting them.
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Mar 11, 2014 11:42pm
@Rahman:
Difficult to respect someone who preaches that it is ok to marry a 10 year old.
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Mar 12, 2014 12:18am
@Akram:
They live in Islamic Republic Of Pakistan.
God save Pakistan From These scholars.
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Mar 12, 2014 12:32am
They forget to tell us which side of the bed should we get up in the morning.
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Mar 12, 2014 12:32am
There should be a massive protest outside the offices of CII, Pakistani women en mass should come out and claim what is rightfully theirs. Make history and show your strength. Tell the parliament they won't go until CII is disbanded. Lets see to it that these out-dated and ill-equipped bodies are dissolved.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:15am
@nak:
I think I just became a bit more stupid, by reading your explanation!
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Mar 12, 2014 01:17am
Typical effort to bring back the 7th century barbaric culture of Arabian deserts to Quaid-e-Azam's Pakistan. An Ataturk is needed to clean this garbage out of Pakistan.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:17am
@Rahman:
You cannot respect someone who doesn't know what they are talking about!
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Mar 12, 2014 01:17am
Marriage is a contract between a man and a woman according to Quran. Can a 5 or 10 yrs go into a contract
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Mar 12, 2014 01:24am
we are just TOT BATOT because in western countries or USA they make laws according to their needs and somewhere they are allowing age 16 or less can marry and somewhere female become mother in the age of 12 and no one cares. but in pakistan they have issue to be marry if they feel themselves that they are in puberty.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:25am
@Rahman:
These mullahs are not serving our religion . They are bringing a very bad name to our religion . Mullahs should be BANNED.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:27am
@abdul:
So the only reason to get married is to have sexual desire? So what should happen to a marriage when one of the partner, for biological or psychological reason, is no longer interested in sex? Should they be divorced, separated or committed to adultery?
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Mar 12, 2014 01:28am
@Junaid:
There claim rests on the fact that they also went to some third rate madrassah and were taught by some illiterate mullah . Now they claim to be Aalims !! These men are totally ignorant and must not be followed by any sane person .
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Mar 12, 2014 01:31am
@Ehsan:
This lot of ignorant fellows are not meant to do any good things or suggest positive things . One can expect any number of ridiculous edicts from them . Wait till they proclaim Slavery to be Islamic and legal for Pakistan .
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Mar 12, 2014 01:33am
@DK:
Wait a few days and they will tell you not to get up on the right or left side of the bed ! They will tell you to dive upwards and land on your head diagonally to the bed !
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Mar 12, 2014 01:33am
There are 2 Pakistans. I sure hope the one with the sound mind will rise up and fight for the half of Pakistan that needs them to stand for their rights and in turn for the progress of the country. How can a country that had a woman lead the country years ago allow for such a meaningless council dictate ridiculous terms to the fairer half in the 21st century.
Another example of why separation of religion and state is necessary.
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Mar 12, 2014 01:34am
@nak:
Get real fellow . Your argument is as warped as the CII edict !
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Mar 12, 2014 01:50am
@nak:
"social problems in the society" of which era? Are they the same in today's world? So when the world and its social problem has moved to 21st century then how will the outdated "system" ensures a healthy society?
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Mar 12, 2014 02:00am
@aa: A girl can be anywhere between age of 9-13 to hit puberty. Do u think a 9 years old girl is mentality capable enough to revoke that decision from her parents? or is she mentally capable enough to make a life time commitment of marriage? Is a 9 year old girl allowed to sign any other contract (for example real estate)? If not, how can come she is allowed to sign a marriage contract?
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Mar 12, 2014 02:07am
I just have one question? A girl can hit puberty anywhere between age of 9-12. Is a 9 years old child considered mentally capable enough to give consent for a marriage and sign a marriage contract?
Also, Is a 9 years old child allowed to sign any other legal contract (e.g real estate/property)? If answer is NO, than how come she is allowed to give consent for a marriage and sign a marriage contract? One can easily lure a poor 9 years child to say "yes" to marriage by promising her good food and cloths. She will say "yes" without even knowing what she is getting into. That is pathetic thinking.
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Mar 12, 2014 02:14am
If women were empowered to an appreciatable degree, I would support second marriages as per demands of a liberal world. The problem lies in the exploitation of women when men commit polygamy using religion as a pretext. However what appalls me is the support these antediluvian mullahs give to child marriages. Marriages not only require corporeal maturity ( puberty) but also require mental maturity, which is usually attained at the age of 16. May Allah show these mullahs the right way.
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Mar 12, 2014 02:16am
If women were empowered to an appreciatable degree, I would support second marriages as per demands of a liberal world. The problem lies in the exploitation of women when men commit polygamy using religion as a pretext. However what appalls me is the support these men give to child marriages. Marriages not only require corporeal maturity ( puberty) but also require mental maturity, which is usually attained at the age of 16. May Allah show them the right way.
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Mar 12, 2014 02:26am
@hyat
You said it right, in west they make laws based on the need of the society of that era, and not something that was written in the bible in the 1st century! The reason they have marriageable age reduced to 16, and yes in some state dont even have a minimum age, because in west parents dont force their kids to get married at the age of 13 or on attaining puberty, and that too to a person twice, thrice or four times their age. But in Pakistan they do and hence the need to a minimum age.
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Mar 12, 2014 02:29am
@Amir:
Would you care to inform us with the need of a seperate secular state in the suncontinent. We already had India, why fight for a seperate secular nation for muslims. Your logic does not resonate with me. Care to explain?
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Mar 12, 2014 02:50am
I thought you need the consent of both boy and the girl to be in Nikah. Mullah sure wants to push us back to stone age and they wonder why we are not prosperous and technologically advance like the West.
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Mar 12, 2014 02:50am
Ridiculous.Just hand over them to drones.
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Mar 12, 2014 02:55am
"Facts are bitter"
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Mar 12, 2014 03:03am
@nak:
And you expect a 13 year old boy to provide for his wife, with hardly any education, money or skill. Theory and reality do not match here.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:21am
World is going to END!!!
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Mar 12, 2014 03:23am
I am totally shocked to see that almost all the comments are against the ruling.
Do we have age limit in Islam? YES. That limit is
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Mar 12, 2014 03:24am
@Rao:
These maulanas were opposed to the creation of Pakistan.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:36am
The ignorant are at the helm of our faith. One needs a depth in how the entire world works to decipher religion vs. looking into a silo. At this rate, our nation has only only direction to to embrace... reverse into darkness. And no, God will not help such us as we deserve this.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:54am
@independentthinker:
good for you.
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Mar 12, 2014 05:18am
I think Mr. Jinnah's so called MODERN Islamic state is a Paradox in itself. He wanted to emulate his thinking and create a nation just like India but with Muslim majority. but he did not realize that he is leading a populace who are not only illiterate but have no pragmatic view of the world. Correct me if I am wrong doesn't your holy book say "for an education one should go to China if need be " but I think just like all deep philosophical and deeper meanings have either been deleted or just over looked to suit its needs. All minorities have been killed or hounded and instead of evolving, Pakistan is becoming a bigoted nation where criminals albight minority are bullying the majority. What a shame ...I have meet some lovely Pakistanis who are amazing people what a night mare for them...my question to you is ..where have all the good people gone in Pakistan?...can some one just put these idiots in jail..?..or may be I am a dreamer..and I hope I am not the only one....
TC guys...hope the normal and not the nut jobs win in Pakistan...
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Mar 12, 2014 05:20am
@Junaid:...so true bro !...
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Mar 12, 2014 05:21am
@Fraz:..Yes Sir..instead of going forward you guys are going backward...sorry man..I feel for you..
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Mar 12, 2014 05:26am
Why are all these laws against women? Aren't women and men both created by the same God?
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Mar 12, 2014 05:42am
Not sure which Islam they are talking are or representing. Apparently either they have not read Holy Quran or never understood. Here are quick article with strong references from Holy Quran:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/minimum_age_for_marriage.htm
This so called Islamic body should be immediately disbanded
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Mar 12, 2014 05:47am
I see a bunch of OLD men with OLD mindset sitting around and telling 21st century people to live like in the 12th century!!!! shame on you.
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Mar 12, 2014 05:55am
CII, what is this never heard about this ? Their declaration is terroristic. They should all be arrested & put in in the same cell as TTP.
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Mar 12, 2014 07:47am
Mahmood,
The link you shared here doesn't work. Could you please verify the correctness of this URL and re-post here?
Regards,
Rp
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Mar 12, 2014 07:52am
I wanted to say something but the readers have said enough. Thank you all.
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Mar 12, 2014 07:53am
The recommendation to amend family law clauses are worthy in accordance to the Holy Quran. All who commented are commenting against the recommendations either ignorant or they have not studied The Holy Book.They are suggested to go through sura Nisar of Holy Book that enlightened the code of marriage and treatment to the women. Ms Shah the PPP MPA is not only ignorant but blind to visulise the cleared mandate given in the Holy Book.However her remarks are her personal views carry no weitage in the law of Shariah.
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Mar 12, 2014 08:38am
@nak:
What is it that you think women need protection from? Men? Thus if men behaved properly, no protection would be needed? Even when males behave badly, surely the under-aged females in the family can be protected by fathers, uncles, brothers etc, without any need to sacrifice their childhood by marrying them off.
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Mar 12, 2014 08:39am
@Imran:
@Rao: This lot is against survival of Pakistan.
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Mar 12, 2014 08:41am
@Saboor Syed:
I think ignoring CII would be the right step.
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Mar 12, 2014 08:42am
these guys should be transported to pluto!
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Mar 12, 2014 08:49am
@yaseen:
Excellent idea !
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Mar 12, 2014 08:55am
Regressive societies collapse.
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Mar 12, 2014 09:19am
@asad:
Not according to these men
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Mar 12, 2014 09:27am
@malik:
It is never enough. Have your sY because keeping quiet is playing into their hands. They have taken our religion and made it something to be ashamed of. They have taken away our liberty to question our religion and 'fikr' is very essential in Islam. They have usurped our right to progress. They are evil and have destroyed the very fabric of our society because to have power they need to dominate over others. Stand up against them and question them wherever they are lecturing. It they spout Arabic, then tell them to revert to Urdu. Do not let them play god
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Mar 12, 2014 09:28am
@sajid:
Not if we stand up, united!
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Mar 12, 2014 11:01am
A religion promoting such weird practices should be demoted to a "jumble of superstitious beliefs"
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Mar 12, 2014 11:10am
What about the non-Muslims who live in this country? Why cant we just include laws that cover the basic human rights according to the 21st century applicable to all religions living within the country?
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Mar 12, 2014 12:40pm
@asad:
No they are not created equal according to Islam
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Mar 12, 2014 12:57pm
@shahid:
logic say no contract with minor
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Mar 12, 2014 01:51pm
It is getting weirder by the day?
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Mar 12, 2014 02:15pm
Shows where their priorities lie....
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Mar 12, 2014 03:38pm
@Bakhtawer Bilal:
"laws of nature"? which laws, tell me....
Nature does not make laws ! The creator of nature has made laws, and we need to abide by such laws.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:40pm
@Fahd:
"Pakistan must become a secular country. Otherwise, it is doomed.".
Pakistan is a theocratic country, and because of that it is already doomed.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:49pm
@Azam:
Yours is the most sensible comment on this post, although there are many other good comments as well.
What you have pointed out is actually the core problem with our belief system.
The hardliners have converted Islam into a mere set of practices with no reason or logic.
Unfortunately, a majority of my 'brothers' also follow this same line.
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Mar 12, 2014 03:52pm
@Jamil:
"Arab culture being imposed on us".
Excellent comments.
However, the problem is as follows:
Where does Arab culture end and where does Islam start.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:29pm
@Musa:
"Islam is the most flexible religon and rememeber it the religon for all times to come, take the hint!"
But what if you could freeze time.
Isn't this what these Islamic 'scholars' are doing?
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Mar 12, 2014 04:32pm
@ajeet:
Jinnah's dreams died in 1949 when Pakistan passed the Objectives Resolution.
This is not Jinnah's Pakistan. This is his nightmare.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:38pm
They must get rid of these illiterate Mullahs and bring actual knowledgeable people into the council.
Why hadn't they announced it on women's day? :-)
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Mar 12, 2014 04:42pm
@Noor:
I agree.
However, the problem is that this 'lakeer are faqeer' version of Islam is fast becoming the dominant version of Islam because of vast financing from "you know who" because this version of Islam suits their customs and mental capabilities.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:51pm
@nak:
"islam is not about just individuality but it is a system that ensures healthy societies."
Please name an Islamic society that is also healthy.
Most Muslim country are populous - many, many people.
But physically healthy - maybe, a few.
Mentally healthy - None.
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Mar 12, 2014 04:57pm
@Poovhen:
There is no inconsistency between divine revelations and rational thinking.
Allah is the ultimate logic.
So when you find an inconsistency between divine revelations and rational thinking, you MUST ASSUME that your understand of the divine revelation is wrong.
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Mar 12, 2014 05:01pm
@Unnas Ahmad :
"It is decisions like this that make Pakistan seem like such a backward country to the rest of the world."
I agree. However, I have a bigger probelm. Let me paraphrase your comment.
It is decisions like this that make 'Pakistanis' seem like such a backward 'people' to the rest of the world.
Pakistanis deserve better. They ARE better.
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Mar 12, 2014 05:04pm
@abdul:
Do you allow your sister or daughter that whenever she feels sexual desire she can satisfy her desires through marriage ? Whereas according to Islamic jurisprudence let alone minor girl even a grownup girl cannot marry of her own freewill
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Mar 12, 2014 05:06pm
All the energies and Islamic knowledge of our Mullah revolve around women folks only they cannot think beyond the women
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Mar 12, 2014 07:52pm
what surprise me here is not the CII but the comments and reactions here.The reaction here raise a question in my mind which is are these peoples for real even illustrate people knew what is the stance of Islam on age of marriage then why are the people here so surprise like its a really really new thing to knew which the CII have just created or you guys have just came from north or south pole because well the rest of world what is the age for a Muslim to get married.
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Mar 12, 2014 10:32pm
@Furkha:
And your reasoning actually reflects quite well the falling standards of education in Pakistan
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Mar 12, 2014 10:49pm
@Azad Khayal:
so your assertion is that we are living in a healthy society?
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Mar 12, 2014 11:34pm
@abdul:
The purpose of the law is so that the girl is mature enough to make her own decision, and is not forced to marry someone twice her senior.
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Mar 12, 2014 11:36pm
@asad:
But it is the men who make the laws - for themselves!
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Mar 13, 2014 12:09am
@Aysha:
Shoot, the human brain is not even fully developed until somewhere around age 25.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:24am
@ Shakil;even now child marriages are taking place in many parts of the world,within muslim and non muslim societies. When this becomes a culture then it becomes normal,so these issues or alliances will remain.These small girls come from societies that do not see any shame in selling or giving away their daughters as child brides because they too i.e the mothers, aunts, grandmothers, and so on and so forth,were married or sold at a young age.Its the way people think needs to be changed.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:29am
@Balahisar:
yes in the west young girls and boys who have reached puberty(which they reach early due to a good diet) are engaging in sex without marriage.Some of them are sex workers.Am talking about girls below the age of 13.
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Mar 13, 2014 04:29am
What dark ages are these people living in?
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Mar 13, 2014 07:16am
I am pleasantly surprised that pakistan have such laws and there are so many people here opposing cii. But do people at dawn forums represent average pakistani citizen?
If so, I would have to alter views about pakistan in a big way. Not that I would be complaining :)
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Mar 13, 2014 10:21am
Islam or any religion are faith based 'period' Islam gives quite clear cut directives regarding certain rights. These are not debatable or subject to interpretation. Age of marriage is one where the age of 18 is not compulsory. You may like or dislike it but that is how it is. Either we have faith in its entirety or not at all. Its kind of all or none sort of principle. With that being said, I do believe that adulthood should be based on chronologic age rather than puberty; however, the vision through any religious goggles will always be restricted and tainted with religious teachings.
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Mar 13, 2014 12:57pm
May Allah Almighty give some Brain to these Half baked Mullahs of Pakistan.
They are bent upon turning Islam the beloved, tolerant and compassionate religion into something to be afraid off and a run away from.
Where is the Islam that Holy Prophet ( PBUH ) was given by Allah Almighty all those years ago. They Have turned Pakistan into a laughing stock of the world.
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Mar 13, 2014 01:58pm
So, this is the most critical problem Pakistan faces today. Not allowing these Mullahs to find a child of 12 years old to get married to. What a shiny example they are!. Do they not have any shame in even saying these things?. These are the people that make me ashamed to be a Muslim. My religion teaches me to behave fatherly towards a young girl and not to look at her as an object. Look at the picture again please. Does any one of these men look like the man of God to you. To me they all look like criminals. I would not have them in my house to teach my 12 year old daughter to read Quran.
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Mar 13, 2014 02:11pm
@asad:
Who says the law is against women? It applied to both males and females.
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Mar 13, 2014 02:14pm
@GA:
Dear GA, couldn't agree with you more. Ataturk is what we need.
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Mar 13, 2014 08:03pm
Child abuse at its best to be practiced in the arcane society of ours.
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Mar 13, 2014 11:59pm
Disband the CII.
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Mar 14, 2014 12:15am
CII has gone mad. For the first time,agree with PPP. If Taliban would take Pakistan to that extreme Islamic way, I will be in favor of a secular Pakistan.
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Mar 14, 2014 01:03am
So, this is the most critical problem Pakistan faces today?. Not allowing these Mullahs to find a child of 12 years old to get married to. What a shiny example they are!. Do they not have any shame in even saying these things?. These are the people that make me ashamed to be a Muslim. My religion teaches me to behave fatherly towards a young girl and not to look at her as an object. Look at the picture again please. Does any one of these men look like the man of God to you. To me they all look like criminals and I would not have them in my house to teach my 12 year old daughter to read Quran.
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Mar 14, 2014 02:51am
@saeeds:
Clearly you don't know much about Islam or Islamic Law.
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Mar 14, 2014 08:17am
why are these Mullahs sitting on a chair and drinking water out of a bottle? isnt it against sharia? how did they get to the meeting place? on a camel? where did they stay during their conference? in a hujrah or 5 star hotels?
freaking hypocrits
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Mar 14, 2014 08:20am
why dont they give fatwa against rapists?
cowards
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Mar 14, 2014 08:21am
why dont they give fatwa against corrupt officials who take bribes?
ignorant cowards
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Mar 14, 2014 08:29am
@Balahisar:
Marriage should be entered into with informed consent. There is no way young children can envisage the impact of marriage on the next 50-80 years of their life. Few can even project 12 months ahead.
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Mar 14, 2014 09:22am
@Noor:
Well said. Respects from this side of the border.
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Mar 14, 2014 11:03am
Its about time CII took a stand for the ill treated and powerless males of our country by relaxing laws on second marriage and being able to marry children. After all Pakistan has solved all of its economic issues, corruption, infrastructure, gang warfare in Karachi, separatists movement in Baluchistan, Taliban in KP and Punjab etc etc......
seriously??
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Mar 14, 2014 02:21pm
Molana Sahib, why don't you set the first example and have your child marry a 40 years old.
Lead by example right?
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Mar 14, 2014 03:28pm
The council of Islamic ideology must be declared a bogus organisation. There is no such term as Islamic ideology. Islam is a religion and those who practice it must reflect its values. It is the duty of the muslim scholars to filter the cultural practice and the traditions from the religion of Islam. No one has the right to make commitments on behalf of children including their parents, but the children themselves who must be of adult age to commit to matrimonial contract.
Rex Minor
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Mar 14, 2014 05:53pm
@abdul:
Lets cut through tour diatribe.
You believe it is normal for a 65 year old man to marry a 10 year old girl because she has reached puberty.
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Mar 14, 2014 09:03pm
@Rao: Clerics, ulamaa, were nowhere around during the struggle for Pakistan or its founding. If I remember my history correctly, the ulamaa were not for partition of India. After partition/independence, they were not around for a long time, until ZA Bhutto allowed them to influence some of his policies to distract from his other more unpopular ones.
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