SULAIMANYA (Northern Iraq): The first prime minister of an autonomous Kurdistan and member of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, Dr Fuad Masum, and the deputy director of the Kurdish Democratic Party here in Sulaimanya, Kasim Jamal, are two seasoned politicians with contrasting opinions and styles.

Dr Masum, a diminutive soft-spoken man, got a doctorate in Islamic philosophy from Cairo and converses mostly in Kurdish or Arabic. Mr Jamal, on the other hand, was educated in the US and speaks fluent English, with a distinct American accent. The two gentlemen come from the two largest parties in Northern Iraq, which do not see eye to eye over a host of issues.

This reporter interviewed the two and discussed with them their views on the unfolding political scenario in post- Saddam Iraq. Regional issues were also discussed.

Dr Masum’s attention was drawn to the fact that coalition forces had yet to find weapons of mass destruction and that a US congressional report released recently had said there was no link between Al Qaeda and Saddam, and he was asked whether the war in Iraq was justified.

Dr Masum said: “I may not see weapons of mass destruction in Iraq but I do see mass graves. In my opinion, if there is a system under which the people are oppressed, it becomes the moral duty of all people to uproot such a system”.

Dr Masum thought it was necessary for US troops to stay in Iraq for some time to come. “I say this because there is a real danger of a civil war if they pull out. I see weapons in the hands of several groups. That’s why I think American troops should stay put for at least three months”.

Iraq, he added, was not a homogeneously Arab country but was part of the Arab group of countries. No matter what, it will not become a party to any plan against neighbouring countries.

Q: What in your opinion are American ambitions in Iraq and the region? Does the US harbour colonial ambitions? What will be the impact of their presence in the region?

A: Colonialism in the classical sense is over. But we know that the US has interests in the region. And we have an interest in democracy. I favour any plan, any blueprint that brings democracy, freedom. I am with that.

Many countries of the region are apprehensive now that the Americans are here in Iraq. At the same time all the countries of the region want to have good ties with the US. If Iraq is unstable, all the countries of the region will be adversely affected.

In my opinion, US troops may remain on Iraqi soil for some time to come. They will be confined perhaps to some bases in Iraq, just as they are in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

In reply to a question as to whether there should be a referendum for independence in Kurdistan and whether the Kurds were ready for a general election, Dr Masum said: “Yes, we are of the view that signatures should be gathered of all those people who want independence. Mass meetings over this issue can also be held.

“Now about the elections, discussions are going on between the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) and the Kurdish Democratic Party (KDP) over the issue of elections. But before elections are held, a census should be done and all the changes in demographics taken into account.”

Dr Masum said under the Washington agreement between the PUK and KDP, which was initialled on Sept 17, 1998, the two parties were supposed to end their differences. Since that time they had established a joint committee to reunify the two regional governments in Kurdistan, one led by the PUK and the other by the KDP.

The joint committee has held just one meeting till now. “But I am hopeful that soon a joint government of the two Kurdish parties will come into being “, the Kurd leader added.

KASIM JAMAL: Mr Kasim Jamal was also asked whether the war on Iraq was justified. He said: “Look, it’s easy for someone like Saddam Hussein to hide the WMDs. But I am still confident that they will find them. Bear in mind also that Saddam killed more than 180,000 people in one operation, known as the Anfal Operation. He did not kill all those people by guns or daggers alone. He did use weapons of mass destruction”.

Mr Jamal said he was not satisfied with the performance so far of the Americans. “They have made a lot of mistakes. For instance, initially they were reluctant to share control with the local people. But now the situation is getting better.

“I think the future of Iraq should be in the hands of its people. That’s why I think the Americans should leave in three or four months. But we have to realize that the US troops are invaders and we should negotiate with them on that basis”.

Q: Do you see a possibility of an increase in Islamic activism in post-Saddam Iraq?

A: You see, in the northern part of Iraq — also known as Kurdistan — there is very little chance of fundamentalism raising its head. That’s because for the last 12 years we have had autonomy, an elected parliament and two regional governments In the other parts of Iraq, the situation is rather fluid and uncertain. But look at Iran. Even there most of the people don’t want Islamic rule. In the new situation it is impossible to create an Islamic government. People nowadays think about freedom and peace, not ‘hijab’.

Asked whether control of Iraq should be handed over to the UN, Mr Jamal said: “In the last eight or nine years, the United Nations has made a lot of mistakes. So the Kurds have had a lot of bad experiences because UN officers sometimes act as members of a mafia. They are not prepared to work with the Kurds.

“Let met give you an example. Some products and goods are easily available in Kurdistan on cheap rates. But the UN people prefer to bring the same goods and products from far-off places like Australia and Brazil. How can you explain that?”

He added: “ There will basically be two parts of Iraq. One in the north and the other one in the rest of the country. We in the northern part of the country want friendly relations with the other part and we will be bound with each other under a federation. Then there will be a parliament too, just as in the US. We will respect the people around us. The central government will be free of military people.”

There is talk here of a referendum through which it could be established whether the people want independence or not. A study prepared by my party KDP is being studied and soon there will be some decisions on this issue.