BENAZIR BHUTTO does not sound optimistic about the outcome of Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee’s initiative to normalize relations with Pakistan. She fears that some tragedy like the attack on the Indian parliament might take place to blow up the whole thing.

She is all for a dialogue. It does not bother her that it will take place when the armed forces have the last word in Pakistan. For her, all depends on the agreement reached. If it is in the interest of her country, she, for one, would not denounce it just because it was reached under General Pervez Musharraf.

She recalls how she did her bit to tackle the Kashmir problem during her tenure. There was an agreement between New Delhi and Islamabad on the Siachen glacier which could not be implemented because of its untimely disclosure by one of the two foreign secretaries.

I ask her: Will you agree to the Line of Control (LoC) becoming the international border? She does not say ‘no’ or ‘yes’. She simply says that the LoC as the solution has not worked in the past 50 years. Even with all the determination to maintain it, the two countries have not been able to protect it against repeated violations. As far as she can recall, she says, her father didn’t agree at Simla to convert the LoC into the international border. New Delhi’s firm understanding on that point is incorrect. Her father had only suggested seeking some international assistance if the two failed to find a solution.

I think her memory may be playing tricks on her. Bhutto never proposed at that time to involve a third party. In fact, he told me before the Simla conference that he was sick of going round the world chanceries for they had their own axe to grind.

Benazir is not in favour of freezing the Kashmir problem as her father had suggested to me once during an interview in Islamabad. It was not incumbent on him and his generation, Bhutto had said, to settle all the problems between Pakistan and India. Let Kashmir be frozen for some time and, in the meanwhile, there should be efforts to normalize relations in other fields. Of course, she wants the two countries to discuss Kashmir. She favours associating the All parties Hurriyat Conference in the state at some stage.

Benazir has all the faith in Vajpayee who she believes is “sincere and honest”. She recalls how impressed she was by his integrity and transparency” when she met him last. He is the person who “really wants to befriend Pakistan”, she says without any hesitation.

The former prime minister of Pakistan has come a long way from the time I met her first after she had taken Pakistan by storm on her arrival from abroad. At that time she was impatient, irritable and even intolerant. She gave the impression as if she knew everything. Her years in the wilderness, more so the sufferings, have made her more mature as well as humble. She now listens to others like a person who is groping for the right answers to the questions of life and politics.

Why doesn’t she go to Pakistan? I ask her. She discusses the pros and cons but does not reject the suggestion straightaway. She fears that the Pakistan authorities will arrest her and shut her up under “concocted and palpably unjust charges of corruption”.

Wouldn’t years spent in jail be a waste of time when she could utilize the period to speak out even though she would be doing it outside Pakistan? She concedes that she has to return to her people. Yes, she will go back when “the time is appropriate”.

Benazir does see the danger of fundamentalist forces gaining ground in the absence of genuine, normal political activity. She admits that the presence of Nawaz Sharif and her in Pakistan may make all the difference. She is not happy over the religious forces occupying the territory which political parties should. But she puts the blame on the military junta for that.

Her own priority is to hold elections under the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. She wants electoral reforms so as to restore real democracy in her country. For example, she would like votes of all ballot boxes in a constituency to be mixed, instead of counting them box-wise as is the practice now.

Why don’t she and Nawaz Sharif return to Pakistan to help restore the political process? She likes the suggestion, wondering whether the authorities will arrest both the former prime ministers on landing in Pakistan. How will the people react?

An uprising? This was what Nawaz Sharif predicted in a year’s time when I interviewed him at Jeddah last month. Benazir too believes that Pakistan is ripe for an uprising. All segments of society, whether the bureaucracy, the judiciary, the business class or the academicians, are sick of the situation. Even some in the armed forces feel exasperated. All want a change.

Benazir says she is thankful to Nawaz Sharif for his observation during the interview with me that she should become the prime minister and that he would support her. “It was generous of him” says Benazir. Still she draws a clear distinction between her Pakistan People’s Party and the Muslim League of Nawaz Sharif. No doubt both are of the same political genre, but they are separate in ideology and approach.

She recalls how the two had decided before the last election to constitute a coalition, the prime minister’s position going to the party winning more seats. But what happened during the election everybody knew, how everything was done to defeat the PPP candidates.

Relaxed and confident, there was no note of despondency in her speech or manner during the interview which lasted for one hour. She spoke like a leader who was sure of her followers even in the wilderness. I wish I could disclose the place where I met her. For interviews and meetings, she avoids Dubai, where she lives. She does not want to embarrass the UAE government.

The two aspects of India which Benazir praises are the manner in which the judiciary protects the country’s democratic fabric. It rises to the occasion every time there is an attempt to damage it. She is all admiration for Indian writers who give you the feel and rhythm of life in their country. It is so wonderful to see India stand on its own against the West.

Benazir often reminded me of her father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, during the interview. He would give you the impression of thinking along with you while tackling a question. Bhutto’s reply would be shorn of cliches. So was hers. Like him, she always has a point of view. You may take it or leave it. And the well known Bhutto trait: vanity. “All wise men have a sweet tooth”, she said when, after seeing a spread of sweets and cakes, I told her about my weakness for sweets.

Firm ideas well up in her as she talks. It is difficult to keep pace with her. Do words cover up her loneliness? Indeed, she is alone, not because her husband is in jail, but because she does not know how long her journey will be.

The writer is a leading columnist based in New Delhi.