04 July 2004	Sunday	15 Jamadi-ul-Awwal 1425

BAGHDAD, July 3: The following is the second part of the transcript of Saddam Hussein's first appearance before a special tribunal on Thursday. (The first part was published in Saturday's Dawn).

Saddam: And to rule in the name of the law.

Judge: And justice.

Saddam: Are we in accordance?

Judge: Yes of course.

Saddam: Justice is relative. For us justice is represented by our eternal heritage emanating from the holy Quran.

Judge: True.

Saddam: And then from the Holy Prophet's (pbuh) Shariat. Is not that the case?

Judge: True.

Saddam: I am not speaking of Saddam Hussein whether Saddam Hussein was a citizen or in any other capacity. When I insist on my title, it is not out of my desire to cling to the job.

Judge interrupts

Saddam: But out my respect of the people's will

Judge interrupts

Saddam: Please.

Judge: Go ahead.

Saddam: When I say the president of the Republic of Iraq, it is not about protocol or to hold on to the job, but to confirm to the great people of Iraq that I respect their will and the law, this is first. Second, you have brought me here to accuse me.

Judge: No, just to read to you the charges being brought against you.

Saddam: Seven charges...

Judge: You know, according to the law, if the investigating judge decides there is a case against the defendant then he refers the case to the higher court.

Saddam: Please, so that I understand the legal aspects. I know that a defendant's appearance before a judge must be preceded by an investigation.

Judge: This is an investigation.

Saddam: Investigation?

Judge: Yes, investigation.

Saddam: I mean, I hope you remember that you are a judge representing the people.

Judge: God willing.

Saddam: It is not about how you are going to decide the case, for me this is not important. It is important for you to remember that you are a judge.

Judge: I told you that I was a judge.

Saddam: Then do not mention anything called occupation forces, which your people regard as invasion forces.

Judge: I am a judge representing the people.

Saddam: Ok, then carry out your duties in the name of the people, you are an Iraqi judge.

Judge: Mr. Saddam, so that we can go ahead with the investigative process, it is your right to know the crimes that you are being charged with.

Saddam: Before that please, just from the legal aspect of things, I imagine that you were made aware of the fact that I have lawyers.

Judge: Yes.

Saddam: Is not that the case?

Judge: Yes.

Saddam: Am I not supposed to meet with my lawyers first before appearing here?

Judge: If you just give me ten minutes to walk you through the process.

Saddam: Ok with pleasure.

Judge: Then you will hear about your rights.

Saddam: OK then with pleasure.

Judge: According to the law, Mr. Saddam, the investigating judge has to explain the charges to the defendant, then after that read out the rights of every Iraqi defendant according to articles 123, 124 and 125 of the Iraqi criminal code. So the first process...

Saddam: Excuse me but these articles were approved by Saddam Hussein

Judge: This is the amended criminal code number 23 of 1971.

Saddam: Ok fine, (President ) Bakr represented...

Judge: He still represents...

Saddam: He represented when he was president a leadership,

Judge: And still represents...

Saddam: And you are now operating under a law that we issued...

Judge: No, it was issued by the Iraqi people.

Saddam: No, the Iraqi people...

Judge: Under the constitution...

Saddam: Exactly.

Judge: Under the constitution...

Saddam: I have studied law.

Judge: I know

Saddam: I do not practice law, but I studied law and by origin, I am a man of the law .... Is it permissible to summon a president elected by the people and to judge him according to a law issued by his will and the will of his comrades.

Judge: First of all, so that...

Saddam: There is a contradiction here.

Judge: First of all, so that you are in the full picture of the legal process, you do have the right to pose questions and for the court to answer you. This is legitimate.

First of all, I am interrogating you not judging you.

Saddam: According to the law...

Judge: I am investigating not judging you.

Saddam: Yes

Judge: Second of all,.... the president is an agent of the people and as per this bond...

Saddam: Perfect.

Judge: According to the law and the constitution, every Iraqi citizen who is charged must appear before an Iraqi court, and according to our heritage, which I am sure you know better than I, Imam Ali bin Abi Talib... -AFP

Concluded