KARACHI, Sept 7: Indian scholar and historian Mushirul Hasan believes that terrorism cannot be curbed through legislation or regulatory checks at airports but requires all countries, Muslim and non-Muslim, to make concerted efforts to isolate the terrorists.

In an interview with Dawn on Tuesday during a short visit to Karachi, Prof Mushirul Hasan, who is vice-chancellor of the Jamia Millia Islamia, New Delhi, held the unsettled conditions in Iraq and Afghanistan as being largely responsible for the present state of affairs.

At the same time he also blamed Muslim governments for not respecting the democratic rights of their people failing to invest in human development. "The Muslim countries have let down their own people.

Muslim governments have failed their own people because we know from the experience of the former Soviet Union that it is not enough to provide housing and free health service.

"It is extremely important to respect and to grant democratic rights and the Muslim countries have failed to do so - and I think they need to be alerted to the importance of democratic institutions," said Prof Hasan.

Asked how he looked at the phenomenon of Muslims the world over being seen as linked to terrorism and resurgence of religion, Prof Hasan said: "Orientalism was alive and kicking for a long time much before 9/11. But it has acquired a sharper focus.

Not because Muslim countries have suddenly become terrorist or unnecessarily support terrorism, but because some of the Muslim countries have acquired a fair degree of affluence, have acquired some political leeway which they did not have earlier"

Countries in South-east Asia, Indonesia and Malaysia have done reasonably well. Pakistan has emerged as an important power in the region and its proximity to Afghanistan, to Iran and to some Central Asian countries, places it in an advantageous position, he said.

"If you look at the Muslim world, you will find that it is today in a much more comfortable position. And it is therefore seen as a potential threat to the hegemony of the West", the Indian academician argued.

On the other hand, "unsettled conditions in Iraq, Afghanistan and the failure of the international community to resolve the grievances of the Palestinians had added fuel to the fire".But the professor suggested that just as Muslim countries expected the West to understand them, "we should also understand the West. The notion that the entire western world is arrayed against the Muslim countries, or against Muslim society, is based on ill-founded assumptions".

"If you want to be part of the global village, we will have to give up some of our resistance to change, to democracy, modernization, to reform." Asked as to why there were communal riots and carnage in Gujarat and in Kashmir when India considered itself a believer in secularism, Prof Hasan said there could be no paradigm other than secularism that would make sense in so diverse and pluralistic a society - as India.

"Gujarat could well be treated as an aberration. During he last 55 years clashes have been taking place between the Hindu and Muslim communities, but these clashes have not been because of the any inherent incompatibility between the two communities. These are the result of a well-orchestrated, well-organized campaign.... of imagining differences and inventing differences.

"So the Babri Masjid, the Ram Janambhoomi movement, was a political symbol invented by the Sangh Parevar in order to deepen its support among the masses. Similar trends will continue to surface in our societies because our societies are secular but not secularised enough to challenge the system."

Unless, Prof Hasan stressed, the state is "secular, without being anti-religious - I am not suggesting that - unless the state is secular, it would communicate very wrong and misleading signals to its citizens".

He was of the view that the problem with Pakistan society since 1947 illustrated how when a state becomes religious and uses religion for political ends, it creates distortions in social systems as well in political alignments.

So, while remaining religious and remaining true to one's faith, it was still possible to develop a secular society, Prof Hasan contended. "Secularism is not just separating religion from politics; it is a way of life in which liberal values can co- exist and become a salient feature of a secular order. Secularism is liberalism and enlightenment. It is not a creed that is irreligious or atheistic."