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The evening began with rain and thunder and the night ended in pitch darkness. Flooded streets and rail tracks left cars, buses, and trains submerged in water as the city literally shut down after rains crippled the urban infrastructure.

No, it’s not about flooding in Lahore or Karachi; it’s about Toronto, Canada’s largest city, which was paralyzed by flash floods on Monday when thousands were stranded at work as heavy rains flooded parts of the city. Most affected was the transport infrastructure causing disruptions to regional trains and underground subways. For those whose commute, it would take 30 minutes or less on a regular day, they spent several hours making their way home through streets submerged in water only to be met with flooded basements at home. Losses are estimated at $700 million dollars.

It has been a tough few weeks in Canada. Last month flash floods in Alberta destroyed several neighbourhoods in Calgary and other towns in Western Canada. Even animals from the Calgary’s zoo had to be evacuated. Last week a runaway train in Lac-Mégantic, a small town in Eastern Canada, killed 20 and completely destroyed the town’s centre. Another 30 are still missing, but are feared dead. The Canadians have faced natural and man-made disasters with courage and resolve. More importantly, they have done this peacefully and without holding their government or a conspiracy theory responsible for their sudden misfortunes.

Imagine the grief in Lac-Mégantic, a small town of 6,000 individuals, losing 50 people and part of the town in a completely avoidable accident. In such a tight-knit small community, no one would have been left untouched by the tragedy. Still, the owner of the rail company, whose train caused death and destruction, arrived in town and held an impromptu press conference. Had this been Pakistan, the owners would have either fled the country or been lynched by the unruly mob.

Why is that people in Canada and other similar places react peacefully to unprecedented challenges and hardships that may even include the death of their loved ones. And why is that people in places like Pakistan people resort to violence and irrational behaviour when tragedy strikes? Why in Pakistan, for instance, the mob almost always torches the bus and tries to harm the driver after it accidentally runs over a pedestrian or another motorist?

Heavy rainfall on Monday left Toronto flooded and without power for two days. Our neighbourhood in a Toronto suburb was without power for over 40 hours. Such events are rare in Toronto. In fact, up until last Monday, most Canadians had not heard of load shedding. This changed when the City’s electricity provider tweeted: “We are currently at capacity with the supply of electricity provided by Hydro One and at their request we have begun load shedding.”

The newspapers had to decode it for Canadians: ‘load shedding equals controlled blackouts’.

A GO Train is stranded on flooded tracks in Toronto. -AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Winston Neutel
A GO Train is stranded on flooded tracks in Toronto. -AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Winston Neutel

With losses running into in hundreds of millions of dollars in Toronto, and into billions in Alberta, there is, however, no finger pointing at the government or worse, resorting to conspiracy theories. People in Toronto realise that flooding was caused by extreme weather that dumped 126 mm of rain in a single day.

“We had 90 millimetres of rain within an hour and a half at the airport,” Peter Kimbell, a meteorologist at Environment Canada, told Canada’s National Post.

Now, contrast this with what happened in Pakistan on July 23, 2001 when flash floods inundated several neighbourhoods in Rawalpindi and Islamabad. Within a short span of 10 hours between 6:00 am and 4:00 pm, 620 mm of rainfall was recorded in the region causing massive flooding in the twin cities. In total, 150 lives were lost and almost 400,000 individuals were directly affected. The damages were estimated at $250 million.

What happened after the floods was interesting. First, were the accusations against the government that it should have been able to pre-empt flooding. Such expectations of any government are unrealistic. Even Canada’s most advanced city, Toronto, buckled under 126 mm of rainfall. How could Rawalpindi’s administration, with its meager resources, pre-empt flooding caused by over 600 mm of rain?

Many conspiracy theories emerged soon after. Some blamed the administration of deliberately releasing water from Rawal Dam to save Islamabad. Others blamed India of redirecting the flood to Pakistan. And then there were others who believed that the floods were engineered by the government to divert people’s attention. Feeding the rumour mill were several news outlets who refused to educate the masses about the fact that natural disasters are hard to predict and, at times, impossible to avoid.

What the governments could do is to plan and deliver improved relief services and support. It is, however, known from the 2001 and subsequent floods, as well as the October 2005 earthquake in Pakistan’s northern areas that the state apparatus continues to be ill-prepared to deal with natural or other disasters. Thus the inadequate post disaster relief feeds public anger and makes masses more susceptible to rumours and false propaganda.

Unlike man-made disasters, extreme natural disasters are becoming more frequent. A good starting point for post disaster relief would be to acknowledge the fact that governments do not and cannot control everything, especially climate. Canadians know this and that is why they join the government in relief efforts.

Pakistanis have done the same in the past. Without exception they have assisted the state in disaster relief. But at the same time, Pakistanis continue to subscribe to conspiracy theories. They may want to give up the practice as it impedes relief efforts and creates an environment of distrust.

Author Image

Murtaza Haider is a Toronto-based academic and the director of

He tweets @regionomics

The views expressed by this writer and commenters below do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.

Comments (46) Closed

TAM Jul 11, 2013 05:40pm

I feel very sad about reading all this. Clearly, roads and drainage cannot be designed for 1 in 100 years flood or earthquake events, come what may whether you are in Canada or Pakistan.

However, what you have illustrated here is the response of the Canadian Government and people taking the initiative from the outset in quickly responding to the urgent needs. And you will also notice the cooperation of the affected and non-affected public in understanding the hardships and try to live through it without throwing their arms up in the air in despair and no jingoism displayed.

But you will also notice some cranks replying this blog by saying how strong the Muslims are in their resilience because they are the only ones who are God's people and made of some extraordinary genes. While also blaming that the these are banana skins thrown by the non-godly people themselves upon which they are slipping and ending up in total extinction.

Abbastoronto Jul 11, 2013 06:03pm

Reality is a bit deeper.

Katrina, Alberta floods, Toronto downpour, Quebec derailment. New is State

Abbastoronto Jul 11, 2013 06:05pm


And in the same period Pakistan, despite the necessary and unavoidable 30-year long Civil War, feeds and clothes better 6 times mouths, and 10,000,000 diaspora link to the Globalized and Free World. Not far from just before its climb in 18th century.

Dinesh Jul 11, 2013 06:18pm

With all the conspiracy theories floating around; it is difficult for poor man on street to be able to comprehend the complex situation. Lack of education may be prime reason - we too suffer similar problems in India :(

Samar B Jul 11, 2013 06:32pm

You are hard upon the people of Pakistan. When tragedy strikes (and you know this happens everyday in Pakistan), the common people wonder why the state apparatus is helpless in making life better. What kind of expectations should the people have of their police, their military, judiciary and government? When every branch shows utter incompetence, shouldn't this translate to anger on the streets? One would expect frequent publicized action by the police and judiciary, and by the government on how new schemes will make life better - don't you see this in Canada? Instead of holding the frustrated people accountable, shouldn't you focus that question on the derelict administration?

Salman Tariq Jul 11, 2013 07:07pm

The attitude of Canadians is worth learning from. However, 2 things set them apart from Pakistan and Pakistanis. 1) Education 2) Huge gulf in the justice system of the 2 countries

Random Example: In Pakistan, if the schoolteacher breaks my kid's hand after beating him up, I will get the teacher beaten up and have the school pelted with stones after paying 10 street kids 100 Rs. for the dirty deed. Why? Because I know my country's pathetic justice system means that the teacher will go scot free, and I will not get justice, hence I become a vigilante. Also, I have been in line for CNG for 7 hours, and there has been no electricity at home for 18 out of the last 24 hours, hence I find the perfect excuse to vent my frustration and mindless fury.

The same Pakistanis become a saintly crowd in Europe and Americas, because the handicaps back home disappear. Although it's easy to label this frustrated nation as a savage and short-fused lot, but the truth might be less simpler.

Regards A typical Pakistani

Zohaib Jabbar Jul 11, 2013 08:12pm

Why don't Pakistanis react peacefully? It's not that hard to contemplate.....

One don't get justice here, owners are never held accountable, our houses are not insured, we don't have job security, all of our savings get washed away.....

people of 2005 earth quake are still unable to return to their lives normally, Seven years of torture and in the next disaster who would expect them to behave decently and not jump on the wheat trucks as soon as they see it.

Give us education, jobs, peace, security and then compare us with Canadians, as of now you can compare us with ethopians or somalians.....

Md Imran Jul 11, 2013 09:18pm

Murataza bhai, we Pakistanis have faced 100 floods and 100 earthquakes and have yet remained reseliant against all odds. Sure, there is always some noise but life goes on without any support from the government . Will this ever be possible in your Canada ? You mention about the restoration of power in Canada, but conviniently leave out the huge muslim ( especially Pakistani ) engineers in Canadian workforce who have built one of the best power infrastructure in the world. It is unfortunate that the brain drain resulted in us not having access to the brilliant minds who should ideally be serving their motherland.

Md Imran Jul 11, 2013 09:20pm

..also, how can you explain an uninterrupted life in Pakistan that goes on despite the 18 hrs of loadshedding ? Will this ever be possible in Canada or US ? I don't think so ! Because we in Pakistan believe in internal enlightment through Quran-e-pak which is eternal, not on man made luxuries.

TAM Jul 11, 2013 09:24pm

See what I meant!!

Amazing telepathy.

Syed H Imran Jul 11, 2013 09:52pm

@Abbastoronto: I too am a canadian haaving immigrated in 1996. i am also a Pakistani.

I think Mr Abbas has written when he was in a despairing upset mood and angry about something

Some of his statements are totally contradictory to facts., the prime example of the murder rate 5 times that of Karachi

Yes, there has been some downturn in the quality of insfrastucture and the "Free" social support. IN part this is being driven by the state of the global economy, the increasing globalization and interconnection and the influx of immigrants and the philosophy and agenda of the in power conservatives.

Yet, in the recent tragedies/catstropies, one saw the human side, the civic sense and the discipline. People (even city councillors) stepped up to manage and control traffic when the signals were not operating. The re was a spate of volunteers who turned up in Calgary and Quebec to help out in watever way they could.

A lot of the immigrants and Muslims too are stepping up to contribute and make their mark in serving and community support and help. There are Food banks, Women shelters, Community organizations. The disporia has some outstanding members

I do NOT see beggars on every street corner

The government still provide freat social support - free education, major health care (I had an open heart surgery and paid nothing) The roas are maintained, services mostly function the system works. There is neglible corrupttion, one can approach the authorities for redress. certainly i is not all honky dory. the BIG difference is in the attitudes,sense of reponsibilty, disciplne and the rule of law. people pay thier taxes whuch is the source of providing the servicrs

The "flood" in torornto was once in a century occurance more rain fell in two hours ( almost 3 times) than for the average for the whole month. One does not and cannot plan for such frelk occurances

Mr bbas, be thankful that you enjoy so many benefits and privilges, you and your family are for the most part safe, you have education for your children, health care and a functioning legal system

We could learn a lot from this

I am with khan Jul 11, 2013 10:26pm

@Abbastoronto ".. When in 1968 this student landed in Canada it was a prosperous land in a rich continent. All was free and taxless. I paid nada for my education on a Pak Passport till 1972 ..".With all the free loaders taking advantage of the public services made for canadian citizens, you wonder why canada is going down the hill?

Abbastoronto Jul 11, 2013 10:31pm

Correction: Not far from ENGLAND just before its climb in 18th century.

Dearborn Iffy Jul 11, 2013 11:10pm

@Abbastoronto: Uncle, it is so easy to wind you up.

Avtar Jul 11, 2013 11:37pm

All levels of government in Canada expect its citizens to look after themselves for 72 hours. That is, do not expect much from the government as it has to attend to emergencies and deal with individuals and high priority targets such as hospitals, food supplies, and so on. It may be difficult to store food for 72 hours in most tropical countries due to "load shedding" and easy availability of packaged goods but none the less the government should encourage all to be prepared for 3 days.

Hassan Jul 11, 2013 11:52pm

I think for starters it is lack of education and not understanding what to do. The approach in Pakistan has always been divide and rule. Having said that, I live in Toronto and I don't think response was amazing to the flash floods. It was good but the city lacked procedures for Disaster recovery it seems as one would think traffic lights are on backup power. Communication to residents of Toronto was far from great and where were meteorologists when we needed them so people could plan accordingly.

Vijay@toronto Jul 12, 2013 12:06am

@Abbastoronto: You are a prime example of what Murtaza is talking about: irrational thought! He is talking about people of Pakistan behaving so differently than Canadians/Torontonians to a natural disaster. And what was your response - I got held up; I got robbed; my friend got robbed; his wife got robbed; complain, complain, complain......Where did in your rant did you address ANYTHING Murtaza was talking about? And if life is so bad in Canada, what the *&^$ are you doing there? Why don't you go back to that land of milk and honey? And while we are on the topic, can you explain what has been your contribution to North America in all these years? Sorry! Complaining does not qualify as a legitimate contribution!

RK Jul 12, 2013 12:49am

@Abbastoronto: Sir ji sorry about your loss. why dont you come back to Pakistan, rather than take all that. Whats reasons keep you pe bhi 6-7 para likh do sir ji.

Bharat Jul 12, 2013 04:39am

This is also a problem in India.

I, once saw a young man on a scooter being slapped badly by two men - both Muslims from their appearance, because it accidentally hit a girl on a scooter.

Both people should have had sympathy - not a beating

Syed Ahmed Jul 12, 2013 04:58am

Each year Pakistan had been facing floods. The 2010 floods were the country

Imran Jul 12, 2013 05:52am

Dear Murtaza, I appriciate the positive approach of Canadians but please do not compare this with Pakistanies???

We face load shadeing every day not once in century, We burn tyres and Buses as we know if we'll not do this no one will ake notice of our sufferings?

We know that our governments have done all what make conspiry theories and years later the news comes as true...they what people were thinking was right??

you are in media and i Am sure you know far better then i do....So please do not compare people of Canada with pakistan..We have our own wories and frustations they Candaians cant even think about..

Darbullah Jul 12, 2013 05:54am

I think its because people don't trust each other or their government. People are divided by religion and sects within religion and feel more loyal to their sects or religion and don't have a shared vision of the country. As the country was created on the basis of exclusion from India and religion, those who don't feel connected to religion feel alien. In Canada, you are treated as a Canadian if you follow the law. In advanced democracies, the people feel that the government is elected by the will of the majority and believe that they are in fact the rules. But in a country where the Army was ruling for many years, people don't feel connected to the government or trust it.

Imran Jul 12, 2013 06:05am

I disagree with Dr Haider's assessment in this article. Unfortunately, the article is based on generalizations. Let me explain. Canada has 1/6th the population of Pakistan but occupies a landmass ten times as much. A small population spread over a larger area with access to more resources (natural and otherwise) will respond differently to a catastrophe. So a fair comparison is difficult. Yet, we find that the after the earthquake of 2005 and floods of 2010 the Pakistani people came together to ensure that the victims of the natural disasters were not forgotten. Yes, the State might have seemed apathetic but then so was the US in the case of Hurricane Katrina. When it comes to charity and giving, research shows, Pakistanis are near the top of the list. Yes, we have major problems with terrorism and corruption but we can build on our positives which are aplenty. Unfortunately, Dr Haider (who I usually agree with) has used the stereotypical background to analyze Pakistan. Canada has its own problems. The Toronto Mayor has been caught on tape doing crack-cocaine yet continues to lead that major City. In 2011, the Canadian hockey fans laid waste the city of Vancouver when their hockey team lost in the finals of Stanley cup. The city was on fire, literally. Yet, We cannot and should not make generalizations about Canada from these instances. Unfortunately, Dr Haider did exactly that in the case of Pakistan.

Shubs Jul 12, 2013 08:06am

@Abbastoronto: Since you've dated yourself in your comment, I take it that you're around 65, a child of the independence era of your nation. Someone who should have been filled with pride and hope for your new nation. Yet, you decided not to step back in your homeland after your education, and now you sit in the West and lecture others on comments forums about the ills of the West using your archaic logic and Islamist worldview. If the west has been on this steep downward slope for the last few decades and the East, especially Pakistan, is on the ascendancy, as you never forget to remind us in post after post, why is it that you're not in Shining Karachi and still stuck in Crime-Infested Toronto? Hypocrisy much? Or maybe you haven't noticed that the youth of Asia have moved on from the 60s, and don't have the time of day for your outdated and fantastic logic.

Dhanus Menon Jul 12, 2013 08:45am

It is not just Pakistanis but Muslims as a whole who react violently. Observe and you will find out.

Pakistani Jul 12, 2013 09:42am

Why are you asking this question to us while you already described the answer??? "Even animals were evacuated from the zoo" in Canada. Look, here lies the difference. No need to explain more.

Arnold W Bush Jul 12, 2013 09:44am

"Why in Pakistan, for instance, the mob almost always torches the bus and tries to harm the driver after it accidentally runs over a pedestrian or another motorist?"

Answer: Because in Pakistan, almost always it isn't really an accident. It is becacuse of reckless driving where the driver sleeps for 30 minutes at one stop, only to suddenly decide to overspeed and endanger people's lives (and often succeeding) to make up for "lost time". It is because people drive like maniacs and loss of life and property is the only expected outcome. If that is so certain, shouldn't they behave otherwise? The bystander and the driver come from the same nation. If the driver is reckless, so is the bystander. Hence the resulting violence.

illawarrior Jul 12, 2013 10:13am

The writer asks why do Canadians respond differently to Pakistanis in such difficult times - for the most part, I think the answer lies in education. Educated people tend to have a better understanding of what a government can and cannot do. The other component is religion. Canadians do not consider a flood, or other natural disasters, must be endured as the "will of Allah". In the west, when disasters occur, they are analysed to determine what lessons can be learned to reduce the damage from any future recurrences.

Aziz Jul 12, 2013 10:24am

It is really sad to see in Pakistan we start blaming and cursing our own country beside thinking about the situation of others.. I think the basic cause is TRUST .. in Pakistan we do not trust our system and people ... Media played a bad role in this... I did not heard any one saying that relief stuff and donation by Pakistani people in 2005 Earthquake was so much that no one was there to pick it up... Traffic was jammed by the volunteer... every one cry about the lacking.. we should change our attitude as Pakistanis. And should believe that we are the best Nation

expat Jul 12, 2013 10:49am

Murtaza, what you have written is typical of what university professors do in their research papers drawing broad conclusions based on simple cause and effect relationships. Readers would have benefited from a much deeper level analysis of various natural disasters. Your analysis is reflective more of your perceptions than research data based on a truly representative samples. Also, the role of psychological factors during disasters is important to be studied. In addition, it is easy to sit in one country and write about about another country. My humble suggestion for you would be to travel to Pakistan every time there are floods/earthquakes and then conduct a longitudinal research over a period of a decade. Your analysis then will be much more meaningful and credible. All the best!

Jas Jul 12, 2013 11:23am

@abbas Toronto .. Hope burglars would have stole your pc and your welfare cheque you ungreatfull Pakistani

kanakasabhai natarajan Jul 12, 2013 11:29am

The moral of the story is simple.Canada with its so called advanced infrastructure and Toronto which I visited can not handle just 163 mm rain while in India it is common to see much more than that every monsoon in so many towns and cities..I am sure Pakistan must be receiving much more than 163 mm per day during peak monsoon. The author should not write about some conspiracy theory in 2001 but about developed countries going to dogs with their poor infrastructure. One saw over 10 days of power outage in Connecticut area near NYC recently due to snow fall and the author is proud of 40 hours power outage in Canada. He should be analytical and explain as to why Canada collapses in for 160 mm rain.- Calgary(75000 evacuated), engineers failing to fix brakes in recent train crash killing 50 people and the PM of Quebec openly accusing the CEO of the train company being highly irresponsible-BBC Headlines. Things are pretty bad elsewhere also but there are more educated but less people to worry about.And criticising Pakistan sells.

K G Surendran Jul 12, 2013 11:30am

Reason can be put down to POPULATION and ILLITERACY. Look no further.

anonymous Jul 12, 2013 12:40pm

Ans is that there is simply no law...left alone for the poor. If his/her close one dies as a result of what u have mentioned, u think he will get justice? soo he refuses to abide by the LAW, if there is any..and bring harm which he thinks is the only justice and illiteracy has a major link to this aswell. But even if he is literate, and is still poor..with no law and order or justice or govt. support..what would he do then, take law in his own hands or stay clam? take the literate , what would u do. shout scream at the GOVT. or take the law in ur hands? to get justice ill think ull choose to stay quite. ghareeb admi ka agla hai na nein tou nahi deekhna.

As far as canada is concerned,law are followed, plus Govt. level support to every citizen to every extent is given hence he/she has a secure backup that y it makes them more civilized not because they are literate. their taxes are used for good purposes not used to exploit them like any under developed nation, not only pakistan..

U cant just say why not here it happens the just a matter of good/white governance. And please stop comparing and start acting yourself, give suggestions do not just criticize.

Afzaal Khan Jul 12, 2013 12:56pm

Where to start. Understand the basic difference, In Canada or other developed countries people don't protest because they expect and see Govt in action and responses to fix the situation. There are no deliberate flooding by landlords of poor slums to save their own land. There is an infrastructure in place and preparations in place to deal with it. Now compare that to for example Pakistan floods or recent Indian floods, people are left at the mercy of nature without any help, if they protest they are violent? Gimme a break, do u remember riots in Katrina?

gary Jul 12, 2013 12:58pm


With Muslims having the highest rate of crimes among the immigrants in every western country including USA, and a very negative attitude towards the west and its people, Muslims are at the bottom of every scale in the human development index one can think of.

As far as the numbers are concerned, Muslims tend to have large families to help them with benefits, and also to become majority in the west, and in the world.

There are fifteen million Jews in the world, and there are 1200 million Muslims in the world. Guess , who has more power? If you are not sure Abbas, ask Dr.farrukh Saleem. He is an authority in Pakistan about the Jews.

Arun Jul 12, 2013 01:18pm

It is not just Pakistanis who would lynch a bus driver who killed, Indians would do the same. The reason is they do not have a strong expectation of justice from their Govt as Canadians do. Because India has not seen coups where the Govt is toppled, conspiracy theories are not so common in India. So improve the justice system, improve Govt services and you will see the behavior change.

Another torontonian Jul 12, 2013 03:03pm

@Abbastoronto: As narrow minded as ever. Typical, yeah?

kanakasabhai natarajan Jul 12, 2013 06:42pm

@Jas: Is there anything wrong in telling the truth. If a non resident Pakistani or Indian criticises his own country that is his right and always correct whereas he is not expected to write about his problems in the host country. Then he becomes ungrateful, narrow minded and what not. One stays with proper visa or even new country's PP, pays taxes, follows the laws and being democratic countries that preach the world there is nothing wrong in writing the truth.

blazer uk Jul 13, 2013 12:42am

@K G Surendranit

funny how Pakistan tries to portray itself as a civilised country when it obviously isn't, its population has remained illiterate for over 60 years, I find the average educated Pakistani is way behind the educated Chinese and Indian and even African immigrants here in England. The level of education in Pakistan is abysmal compared to India. in Pakistan they shoot unarmed students and these proud pious Muslim cowards shoot young girls in the head for going to school and the pakistan I state and people cared so much, their outrage so heartfelt they...

Did nothing. As she adresses the UN today ask yourself ' do you think she wants to go back to safe and tolerant Pakistan anytime soon if ever?

Pakistan has no hope, despite what the liberal minority thinks. The population cannot fight radicalisation because they' re already radicalised they choose not to accept it though their silence and negligence after each atrocity confirms this fact. This is apparent at all levels of Pakistani society despite their well worded lies.

Pakistanis should learn the story of the boy who cried wolf, because you' be done it to many times.

We must now be compelled to look upon your nation in the same manner as Somalia and North Korea. Sadly characterised as the mental patients amongst the community of sane progressive states simply because the rush with fervour to embrace retrogressive societal religious beliefs and edicts based on a flawed theory of a Muslim nation.

That's the truth as to the state of Pakistan but can the deluded handle it?

Mohammed Jul 13, 2013 01:11am

There is only one answer to this, Get rid off PML-N and PPP (Nawaz and Zardari) then you can start the process of development. If they both keep taking turns then sorry to say Pakistan will be finished/destroyed or may be bought by someone soon. :(

Masood Hussain Jul 13, 2013 01:25am

It is because of frustration and helplessness .Failures and accidents are so frequent and for so long stay unattended ,intentionally or per force of circumstances.

Faizaan Faizi Jul 13, 2013 02:54am

I consider it very unfair to compare reaction of Canadians with Pakistanis to the natural disasters or any other man made disaster. The negative reaction by Pakistanis is due to the fact that Pakistani governments have always been telling lies to the public and hence have lost trust of their people. Therefore, we should blame Pakistani governments not the people themselves for their negative behaviours. Since creation of Pakistan, public is being cheated on a consistant basis.

Imran Jul 13, 2013 11:21am

Because they are people....

Javed Hashmey Jul 13, 2013 01:44pm


Murder rates are higher in Toronto than in Karachi. Hmmm. Brother if you have not visited Karachi in decades, please ask other fellow Pakistani expats how comfortable they are in visiting Karachi now. There is a difference in reporting and experiencing. These differences are higher in countries such as Pakistan where the police wont even register FIRs.

And mosques as security net. Brother that happened 50 years ago. Now mosques are one of the means to grab state land. They are the great gowth industry of Pakistan. They are also sprouting seminaries where killers of Pakistanis are bred and brainwashed.

And where are Muslims thriving. In the west perhaps. In the rest of "Muslim" controlled world they are trampled under corrupt rulers - all of whom are ever more Islamic. Saudi Arabia's GDP per capita is now a third of what it was 50 years ago and only slightly more than Barbados. What does it tell about the wonderful state of how Muslims live.

bangash Jul 14, 2013 02:22am

@gary: Your figures are bogus and based on hate.