‘The rise of the religious parties in Turkey has more to do with economic problems of the common man than with the rise of fundamentalism,’ says Turkish scholar Dr Esra Hatipoglu
TURKISH scholar Dr Esra Hatipoglu believes secularism is not an anti-religion sentiment, and claims that the rise of religious political parties in Turkey is not mainly linked to the resurgence of Islam, but rather to the people’s disenchantment with the old parties which failed to solve their problems, mainly economic problems.
Dr Hatipoglu is Deputy Director for the Middle East Studies Institute at the Marmara University, Istanbul, and also teaches at the department of International Relations. She was in Karachi recently when the Dawn Magazine spoke to her about the practice of secularism in Turkey, and other related issues. The following are excerpts from the interview:
Q. What are the prospects of secularism in Islamic countries?
A. As a person coming from Turkey, I see a lot of prospects. Not all Muslims generally experience this globalist tradition. Somehow they will adapt to the new situation, but it will take time. It depends on how you define secularism because every Muslim country can interpret it according to its own characteristics.
Q. Do you think secularism is a mode of coexistence or is it anti-religion?
A. It is not anti-religion because it is based more on coexistence. In a way it respects personal life and is another way of respecting religion. So I don’t see any clash between secularism and religion. It is a policy of live and let live.
Q. What is the state of secularism in Turkey, especially since the rise of religious parties?
A. Our constitution and laws are based on secularism. Though we may see the rise of some radical Islamist and moderate Islamist parties, they do not harm secularism, which is the basis of our constitution and our policy. In the past, such parties were not allowed to come to the front, but now Turkey is passing through a new period because now we have to meet the Copenhagen criterion in addition to the issue of human rights and the rights for the minorities.
So, there should be coexistence between all segments of society, and I think we are doing fine. We cannot deny the fact the 99 per cent of the Turkish population is Muslim. There is only one per cent that does not belong to this group. So Turkey cannot deny its religion, just because it is secular.
Q. So, is the rise of the religious forces linked with the conditionalities regulating European Union membership?
A. It is an interesting scenario, because one important group that supports EU membership is the Islamic group. They really think that under the EU umbrella their rights will be much more protected. There are a lot of different forces which support the EU membership for different reasons. I think some of the radical parties have come on the scene not because of religion, but also because of the economic situation.
We have tried all the parties, but none could not come up to the expectations of the people. The emergence of the radical parties has nothing to do with the rise of Islam in Turkey; they have emerged because of all the problems that the ordinary Turks face in their national life. People basically need better living conditions, and they think that the so-called flexible Islamic parties can solve their problems.
Corruption is also a very big issue in Turkey. Because of all these factors we see that some of the new parties have become popular. In short, people want to try something that has not been tried before.
Q. What is the attitude of the military and the general public towards the rise of the religious forces?
A. If you are looking at Turkey from the outside, they may appear to be in conflict with each other. But the fact is that all these forces are trying to find some compromises within themselves. Military also does not want to be involved so much in politics. Of course, the military is still playing a very important role in Turkey. We cannot deny this. But it has to change, and it is trying to change. And these things can only happen in cooperation with the government and society. So the military is also trying hard not to get involved in things outside there sphere.
Q. How could Turkey blend secularism with the rising traditional forces and also aspire for the EU membership?
A. Dealing with the EU is a very delicate issue in Turkey. As I said earlier, there are many groups in Turkey which are supporting EU membership for various reasons, and, for similar reasons, there are many who are opposing such a move. Strangely enough, the groups that were opposed to each other are now supporting EU membership, but secularism, from the EU perspective, is very peculiar to Turkey because it always tries to differentiate Turkey with other Muslim countries. So, religion is playing a role in Turkey move towards EU membership.
Q. What about the West’s sensitivity towards religious parties?
A. I think it is a very delicate situation. If Turkey really tries hard to restrict them, then it is against one of the fundamental rules of the EU which cannot allow Turkey to curb these parties; if it doesn’t the West sees it negatively. It is a delicate game, and Turkey cannot do much. On several occasions in the past, Turkey banned some of the parties and expelled their leaders from politics, but now we have come to a point where it is apparently impossible to do any such thing, at least in the near future.
Q. Going back in time, was Kemal Ata Turk the real exponent of secularism in Turkey, or did it have its roots in the Ottoman bureaucracy which had underplayed religion in its last days to maintain trading relations with the West?
A. This is a very hot topic being discussed these days. I think we cannot take the Ottoman Empire as a whole period because lots of changes did take place. In the late 19th century, we may see some trace of the bureaucracy doing it, but if we consider the Ottoman empire from the beginning, the religion played a very important role. The Sultan had to get permission from Sheikhul Islam although it was not binding. Society in those days was not based on nationalities, but on the basis of religion. We cannot just say that the whole Ottoman Empire was a secular empire.
Q. It is said that secularism in Turkey had gender connotation and when Ata Turk legalized it, there were certain laws that hit women who were not allowed to put a certain kind of dress.
A. It had lots of connections with lots of things because we were changing a society’s lifestyle. It is not directly related to gender, but because in Islam certain yardstick for women’s appearance has been spelt out, so in that case we can say that secularism had some gender connotation. But there are rules in Turkey for modern women to go to work. We cannot go to work in mini-skirts.
Q. In the past, military had intervened whenever religious trends had surfaced, but now we don’t see that intervention coming from the military in Turkey. Has it reconciled to the new developments?
A. I think the military, because of the constitution, still has some hesitations about these radical movements. It can be radical Islam or any other thing. The military still considers itself as the guardian of secularism in Turkey and the defender against any radical movement. Something now is happening in Turkey and the military also understands that at some point it will not be able to deal effectively with such trends. The military knows that if something very serious happens, it will intervene not in terms of a coup, but as a pre-emptive measure. In a way, because of the issues connected with Turkey’s EU membership, the military is trying to somehow limit itself in political life.
Q. Do you think that this transformation started in the days of Kenan Evren when the Middle East also became important in Turkish foreign policy?
A. It is difficult to link it to one person, because it is a process. I think the main emphasis and priority in Turkish foreign policy is about going to the West and not to the East. We did play this game of going back to the Mideast and having some relationship with the Arab and Muslim countries to have a cushion if something goes wrong with the West, but in general Turkey’s main foreign policy priority is Europe and the West.
Q. Do you think that despite developments in Iraq and the possible Kurdish problem, Turkey would still be looking towards the West?
A. After 9/11 no country feels secure. First of all, we are formally connected with the EU in so many ways through formal agreements, customs etc. In general, I believe that because of all these arrangements, Turkey will continue to look towards Europe. Of course, it will try to have a multi-directional foreign policy, but again the emphasis will be on the EU.
Q. Despite the Kurdish problem in the East?
A. Yes, Turkey would still prefer to go to the West than going to the East.
‘The rise of the religious parties in Turkey has more to do with economic problems of the common man than with the rise of fundamentalism,’ says Turkish scholar Dr Esra Hatipoglu 
