April 27, 2003

“Only hawks can ever resolve lingering issues, and with Hindu extremists ruling India, and the army in effective control of Pakistan, the time is just right to take some bold decisions,” says Asghar Khan

ASGHAR Khan, a former chief of PAF who now heads the Qaumi Jamhoori Party, believes that making Kashmir independent — rather than part of either Pakistan or India — will be good for all concerned.

President Pervez Musharraf in Pakistan and Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee in India, he says, will have to take bold decisions to pursue such a path to peace. The following are excerpts of the interview:

Q: What do you think can resolve the Kashmir dispute?

A: I think a new situation has arisen which is very important, and it can lead to a breakthrough. We have already had five serious clashes with India, including the Rann of Kutch and Kargil episodes, and that, indeed, is a dangerous situation. Now for the first time we have a situation that is different from the past, with Hindu extremists ruling India, and army in control of Pakistan.

No solution is possible unless the Hindu element in India agrees to it. The (secular) Congress probably could never take an initiative that BJP can. In Pakistan, no solution is possible unless it has the backing of the army, because in conflicts with India the initiative has been taken by the army. Now they are effectively in power in Pakistan, and the BJP is in power in India.

The BJP for the first time has shown some inclination to talk. That is very important, and we should take this opportunity to discuss this matter seriously and not stick to formalities and points of principle and too much of a protocol.

I don’t think Pakistan can ever conquer Kashmir — it is impossible — and I don’t think India can suppress the Kashmiris for ever. They have lost about 80,000 people during the Kashmir struggle. So common sense demands that something should be done. This is an opportunity.

Q: But what is the way ahead?

A: To my mind, I think the only solution that could work and create a complete change in the whole atmosphere in the subcontinent is to give the Kashmiris their independence. They want to be independent. They certainly don’t want to go to India and I don’t think they are so keen to come to us either. There will be another Muslim state in the world if we allow the Azad Kashmir and the Indian-occupied Kashmir to become a single entity. Let it be a state as it was in 1947. This, to me, is the only way out.

And they need not have any responsibility for defence — defence should be guaranteed by Pakistan and India. It will lead to a lot of prosperity in Kashmir, like in Switzerland, which has a very small army. There is no need for any armed forces, because you are defending against no one.

It will be a very prosperous, very happy state, with Hindus and Muslims living together. That will also open new vistas for the subcontinent. They can live in peace there. All nations will improve. I think it is an historic occasion and we should not lose this opportunity.

Q: Have you discussed the idea with others?

A: I had discussed it with certain Indian leaders who visited Pakistan, including Admiral Ram Das (a prominent figure in the so-called track-two diplomacy). Their objection was that if you give independence to Kashmir, it will start new demands from all over, such as in Nagaland and Mizoram, for self-rule or independence.

But none of these areas represent an international problem. There is no dispute over these territories with neighbouring states, and no other country is involved. This is entirely a different situation. Kashmir is the only area that is a dispute between two countries.

I am not suggesting that the government take this position right away, but when the talks start taking place, I think this should be borne in mind on both sides that this is a solution that will open up avenues for good relations between our two countries and also with Kashmiris. This is a chance for all to live in peace and prosperity.

The other thing connected with this is the political situation in Pakistan. I think it is very important that Pakistan should appear to be a stable political country. The dispute that is going on in parliament over the LFO may well be sending wrong signals. I am making a suggestion for reconciliation because nobody wants to negotiate with a country which is unstable politically. And I think this is very important that political parties should get together, and should give democracy a chance.

Six months have passed since the government was formed, and no progress has been made, nothing is happening, the parliament is not functioning. In this situation, I don’t see how any country can negotiate with us. The first thing, I think, is to sort out our internal affairs, and try to work together and not to get stuck on small points.

I think we should resolve our internal problems so that we present a united front, a united representation, to discuss with India from a position of strength. Otherwise, nobody will take us seriously.

Q: Will taking such a position on Kashmir not harm Pakistan’s stand?

A: I don’t think so. The case has been with the United Nations for 55 years, and has led us nowhere. And by recognizing the Northern Areas as separate entity, we, in fact, have ourselves given up the question of plebiscite, because if we were serious about a plebiscite, that area, which is 100 per cent Muslim, should have stayed with Kashmir where they are going to vote. By separating them, we have ourselves given up plebiscite. We are not serious about it.

Q: Don’t you think that constitutionally Northern Areas are still not part of Pakistan?

A: But Zia-ul-Haq made a statement in the 1980s that it is now part of Pakistan. We don’t consider it part of Azad Kashmir either. So we have ourselves weakened our position.

It’s all right we can go on arguing about UN resolutions, but nobody takes us seriously. Fifty-five years have passed, we have gotten nowhere, and I think we should take a new initiative. That, at least to me, appears to be a practical solution of the problem.

Q: Don’t you think India would have agreed to such a proposal had it come in the early years of Pakistan, but may not accept it now?

A: I don’t know what the Indian reaction would have been 30-40 years ago, and maybe they might have agreed at that time. They might be intransigent now, but I see no other solution to this problem in even another 50 or 100 years. It will lead to more misery and hardship.

The Indians are talking about cross-border terrorism. I think, as a gesture, because there is now no confrontation between the armed forces of India and Pakistan, we should seriously address this problem, and invite India that they can have observers if they like, and make an effort to satisfy the international community that nobody is going across the LoC anymore.

Q: Do you think the people of two countries will agree to such a solution?

A: I think they will, if the leadership is bold enough to put it to them. I think in the international field it is an opportunity that we will never have in decades. If Congress comes to power in India, it will not be strong enough to take this position. The situation is unique, and we should take advantage of it.

Q: Should it be done bilaterally or through the United Nations?

A: I don’t think any of them will propose this, but I think Kashmiris want this. It is going to lead to their prosperity, and if they agree to this, I think this is the answer. I see no other answer. Otherwise, we will go on arguing over it for another three, four generations and in the meanwhile destroy ourselves. We are both nuclear powers now — which is highly dangerous — and we should not think of confrontation.

Q: At least one Kashmiri group, the JKLF, has proposed that Kashmir be placed under UN control for five or ten years after which Kashmiris should be given the choice to join either India or Pakistan, or remain independent. Do you agree to this?

A: I don’t think they want to join India or Pakistan, very frankly. What are we going to offer them. What have we done in the last 55 years while yearning for them to join us. I think they want to be free, and this will lead to prosperity. It will lead to good relations between India and Pakistan, and I think it will change the whole complexion of the situation in South Asia.

Q:There have been fears expressed in the past that an independent Kashmir could become a military base of any superpower. What do you think of it?

A: The only superpower now is the United States. They don’t need Kashmir as a base. Base for what? To go where? I don’t share these fears. American bombers can easily refuel in the air, so a ground base is not that important to them.

I think General Musharraf is a sensible person and is bold enough to carry the people with him on this issue. Politicians should stop bickering on small matters. We lost half the country on just academic discussions. I think it’s time we came to our senses, and think about it seriously.

If you think India will take Kashmir and we will sit back, that is not possible. If you think we will take Kashmir by fighting, that is just not possible. Forget the United Nations. Let India send its observers on the issue of cross-border infiltration. There is no need of being dogmatic and rigid about it.

Q: Do you plan to discuss this idea with other political parties?

A: No, I won’t. I have seen political parties for 35 years, they (politicians) think only about themselves. They come first, their party comes next, and the country gets the last place. I don’t expect any initiative from anybody.

They say we will conquer Kashmir, we will liberate Kashmir, we will do this, and fly our flag on the Red Fort. There is no use talking to such people.

I think General Musharraf could take the initiative. He can do it. Nobody else can do it. People want votes, they do not have the courage to do this. He can do it and he will carry the army and the nation with him if he is bold enough to tell them the truth. If Kashmir becomes one country with a Muslim majority, but Hindus and Sikhs also living there in peace, we will have peace with India.

Q: Will the ruling Q-League agree to this?

A: They will do what General Musharraf says.

Q: Will the two sides forget hostility of the past?

A: Yes. We must confess we made a lot of mistakes. The first mistake was made when Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel suggested that Pakistan take Kashmir and India get the state of Hyderabad, and Pakistani leaders turned it down. It is on record. Ultimately, we lost both. Then Sheikh Abdullah wanted to meet the Quaid-i-Azam before Partition, but it did not materialize. When Kashmir had still not acceded to India, we started an operation there. Let us forget about the past. Let us start afresh. Let us retrieve the situation.

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