With friends like these ...

Published Sep 30, 2010 03:42pm

As reports emerged of Nato’s fourth helicopter strike in Pakistan in recent days, news articles began stating that “Pakistan has expressed outrage at the violation of its airspace by Nato helicopters in Afghanistan.” Who exactly expressed this outrage and where? On Wednesday Interior Minister Rehman Malik said that no one is allowed to violate Pakistan’s sovereignty. What sovereignty? The one we sell bit by bit everyday? Mr. Malik is right – no one but Pakistan itself is allowed to infringe upon this country’s sovereignty.

There was a bit of an uproar when the earlier three strikes took place, but a tiny consolation given was that Nato’s targets were the militants from the Haqqani network – sadly this is not the case in Thursday’s strike. If reports prove true, Nato helicopters crossed 5km inside Pakistan’s territory and struck a border post in the Kurram Agency, killing three Pakistani soldiers – that’s security forces, not militants.

What does Pakistan do in return? Well we start with blocking Nato supply trucks to Afghanistan for starters and then we decide to take up this issue in the National Assembly and then I’m not so sure. Mr. Malik also just stated that “we will have to see whether we are allies or enemies.” On one hand we are receiving so much funding and aid and on the other hand, our sovereignty is being ridiculed by daily drone strikes and now the chopper violations. Mr. Malik, with friends like these, who…., well you know how the saying goes.

We highlight the active and brave role our security forces are playing in this war on terror – yet obviously it isn’t enough since we are allowing our ‘friends’ to come and constantly gate crash our mission. Or wait, this isn’t just Pakistan’s war they say – if not, why pretend to have an issue with the drone strikes? There may not be a black and white solution to the militancy but the establishment does need to decide, is it happy with the assistance (read: violation of sovereignty) or not? Once that is decided, it can take a firm stance on what is happening today. But can it? How can one forget all the billions of dollars this friendship has given us – the billions of dollars which have ended up making this friendship a very taxing one.

Our masses may be uneducated but this is not a country full of fools. Whichever socio-economic group you decide to look at – they all stopped believing in public statements and government promises a long time ago. Half the time our leaders are busy defending various corruption cases against themselves – the only time they are upholding this country’s sovereignty is in their well-rehearsed statements made to the media.

The poverty stricken group knows it is not going to get its’ promised ‘roti, kapra and makaan’ and the middle-class masses know that they are far from the democratic nation they are made to believe they are – and personally allowing this government to complete its five-year term in its current state isn’t going to bring about any magic either. Still, we hope… and we hope.

The government may publicly condemn the drone strikes to pacify the masses, but it does not realise that this is not an oblivious nation. If drone strikes are to continue in Pakistan, then instead of further discrediting itself and mocking the intelligence of the nation, the government should boldly say so. However, if the establishment actually believes that Pakistani security forces can handle the military operations inside the country then Pakistan needs to gain some healthy distance from its ‘friend’ – and resist all the crispy dollars come with the friendship.  You cannot condemn something yet condone it at the same time. And that is exactly what is happening right now. Militants may not recognise borders but security forces should.

Shyema Sajjad is the Deputy Editor at Dawn.com

The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.


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Comments (173) Closed




S Khan
Oct 10, 2010 09:07pm
Mr Mustafa..if you just look at events of only last 50 odd years you would notice that Muslims have always been short-changed by the super powers.Muslims are the most tolerant and friendly of all religions' followers.How many countries have Muslims invaded? How many innocent men,women and children have we killed in the name of religion.Islam is the fastest spreading religion in the world and rightly so. Be proud to be a Muslim and defend attacks on your faith rather than joining the invaders!
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 06, 2010 03:30am
The recent news reported that there was an agreement that Pakistan
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 06, 2010 03:58am
Let's leave it here. While we debate about who fired the first shot or warning shot, it has now been accepted by NATO that they had indeed violated Pakistan's Airspace. The matter should rest at that. It is absolutely silly on any one to think that the identical uniforms was a factor in shooting, or that there is no clear demaraction of borders. The mighty United States and its NATO Allies boast of great technical and computer advances to the effect that they can map, and identify objects and planets in outer space which are millions of miles away from the Earth from the comfort of their computer rooms, so how is it they cannot see the difference of borders between Afganistan and Pakistan? They even boast of technological superiority to use infray rays to exactly obtain a live video image of the target on ground, and listen to every conversation in the area of survelliance, how can they not know where they are or who they are shooting. It is nothing but a provocative action designed with an ulterior motive to widen the conflict into Pakistan. Wake up to the reality, my "two_worlds" companion. You should thank God that Pakistan Armed Forces did not react in like manner to escalate the situation which is what the "enemy" wanted. Go figure who the "real enemy" is. It is at your gate.
Mustafa
Oct 06, 2010 04:03am
Shouting slogans of sovereignty but not capable to wipe out completely all terrorists, who are the enemies of Pakistan and Pakistanis, from Pakistani soil, is something that no one will understand. If NATO and America are indeed doing what Pakistan should have done in the first place that is "get rid of terrorists" then Pakistan should give them access to pursue terrorists. May Allah Help Pakistan and defeat all enemies of Pakistan.
naBBu
Oct 06, 2010 05:05am
who is responsible for the death of Pakistani soldiers????
srinivasan
Oct 12, 2010 05:54am
I think Mr Mustafa is only trying to educate the muslims and non muslims about the good virtues of Islam. That does not mean that all that has been going on in Pakistan, namely killing innocent public in the name of religion incl children, senior citizens etc can be tolerated or denied. Invading other countries by muslims, come on give me a break Read history. The entire Indian history is full of muslim invaders from Afganistan and Persia.
S.Khan
Oct 08, 2010 06:11am
Mr Mustafa....the "real" terrorists are those who trapped Pakistani and Muslims from other countries into fighting jehad against Soviets, courtesy of our Military Dictator "Amirul Momineen of the time"... NATO & US are waging a illegitimate war against innocent Afghans who did no wrong to anyone....there were no "terrorists" and suicide bombers in Afghanistan,Iraq and Pakistan till US and its allies invaded these countries much like Hitler and Nazis! Watch this video to open your eyes: http://www.kalam.tv/ur/video/46025/index.html
Salma Khan
Oct 05, 2010 10:20pm
To the helloou.. American....Pat Tillman was not killed in Iraq but in the mountains of Afghanistan. NATO should respect Pakistan's sovereignty and stop Drone and Chopper attacks. You do not need an investigation if you know what the facts . Simply admit mistakes and do not repeat it....over and over again. By the way, what "animals" are you getting the world rid off? If you mean Afghans ...shame on you! Anybody who invades another country on false pretexts and kill and maim hundreds of thousands is as much an animal as those who kill innocent people who have no part in this fight. You can not expect people to behave humanely if you bomb and kill innocents. Remember Vietnam!!! Bombing and burning those"animals" could not win you the war..you lost big time. Try LOVE and COMPASSION for a change!
Salma Khan
Oct 05, 2010 06:00pm
@ Mr Hammad...You are so right....it is about time that we as a Nation stand up to our Generals who have perpetuated a systematic destruction of our country and hold them accountable! Indian politicians are about as corrupt as ours but no Indian General ever dare to come and uproot an elected civilian govtl ? He will be charged of treason and hanged not hailed as a hero or a savior like we do here!
Rahul
Oct 10, 2010 07:02pm
Well said. You are a true humanist. World would be a different place if everyone subscribed to your world view.
Mustafa
Oct 08, 2010 03:53am
Pathan Saheb, never tell this to anyone. Who knows what people will think about you.
IKN
Oct 07, 2010 11:59pm
3 soldiers were killed by NATO gunship, Pak army & government is calling it violation of country's sovereignty. American drones have been killing scores of tribal folks everyday with the tacit approval of Pak government, from the days of Musharraf to present . How much is colateral damage caused by drones ? no one is telling us. When you become a paid watchman on the border, sovereignty becomes a mere word.
Tahir Rizvi
Oct 07, 2010 11:18pm
Pakistanis are proud people and a proud nation. Please do not forget it and do not under estimate Pakistanis.
Khalid Hussain
Oct 12, 2010 03:27am
Muslims have to learn to live in peace with others. Just saying Islam means Peace is not going to make anyone believe that Islam is peaceful. Actions count for more than words. It is unfortunate to see that muslims have disputes with everyone around the world including Christians, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists. Even the Chinese and Japanese have very poor opinion of muslims according to a survey. We have to introspect to see our faults instead of blaming others for our problems.
Khalid Hussain
Oct 12, 2010 03:20am
Well to answer the question on how many countries Muslims have invaded, we have to remember that all countries other than Saudi Arabia where there are Muslims were invaded. We live in a land that was invaded by Muslims a thousand years ago.
azaad
Oct 12, 2010 03:18am
S khan...your naivete is touching !
Mustafa
Oct 09, 2010 05:30pm
The greatest mistake of the vast majority of Muslims is that they believe Allah is only Allah of Muslims only not Non-Muslims. Muslims should know Allah is provider, sustainer and protector of all mankind, not just Muslims only. Therefore, we cannot do injustice to Non-Muslims. Allah says in the Holy Quran: O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).- Surah al-Hujurat (49:13). It is time Muslims should treat all mankind with kindness and justice.
Yousuf
Oct 07, 2010 07:50pm
Pakistan is not fighting Islam, Pakistan is fighting Taliban who is getting hidden financial &.
Yousuf
Oct 07, 2010 07:46pm
I live in Karachi. Every night I have to keep my bike safe because somebody steals petrol from my bike at night. Now the question is how come terrorist from same country not mind burning Nato's whole oil tanker. Obviously not as long as they are being fed by outside hands. Other thing, why is Pak Army taken this stance against America only after soldiers killed. Don't they value innocent people killed by drones (don't be mistaken innocent people with militants). Pak Army is being fed by tax payers money to protect us not to live lavishly in DHA.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 04, 2010 11:56pm
The comments of Shyema Sajjad,the Deputy Editor at Dawn, "With friends like these
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 04, 2010 11:49pm
I suppose you were there to see it all unfolding before your eyes? Or are you the proxy reporting agent of the Western Press spreading a rumour which may not have any factual basis to it? If you must know it is the standard practice worldwide with every country's Armed Forces to fire warning shots at the bow and or starboard to warn the approaching aircraft that they are in prohibited airspace or are tresspassing. If the approaching craft heeds it, and turns away, all is considered well. In this situation it is likely the pilot of the approaching craft thought that he was being attacked and so hit back in self-defense. Or perhaps it was a "sinister" plot of NATO to create mischief. A error one time is an error but when it is repeated three times, it is a deliberate provation. I would not hesitate to hit the bastards should they venture to violate our airspace again.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 09, 2010 01:18am
You use the words, "if" very often, for instance "if we survive; if our economy". It indicates to the readers that you have serious doubts in your own ability, for a Nation, a State, a Country is made up of its people, and when its citizens express negativity, not think out rationally, use the emotions more than their mind, and advocate that US and Europe cut off aid, and stop issuing visas for traveling between Pakistan and the US or Europe, you are heading for isolation. That would not help bring out any good. Already one Pakistani Muslim brother is killing his brother, even when that innocent Muslim brother is offering his prayers in a mosque, when corruption and bribery is rampant in the system, when Pakistanis are evading paying taxes, [and we saw how little aid was provided by Pakistanis themselves to the flood victims in Pakistan], this talk of cutting off trade and diplomatic relations is reflection of political ignorance and immaturity. There is a way; there is always a way.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 09, 2010 01:02am
It is not a matter of three or four soldiers. Violation occurs when one group of people with a twisted ideology try and impose their doctrine on another group; when one Muslim brother blows up another brother's mosque; when one Muslim brother kills another Muslim brother who is praying to Allah. In such instances one can say that someone's right of constitutional right has been violated. If American drones are killing tribal folks, should not the tribal folks get rid of fanatics, and those among them who resort to acts of violence and terrorism? Violence breeds violence. You as a Pakistan are not suggesting that Pakistan is a "paid watchman" of the United States or other Western Powers? If you are, then by merely uttering these irresponsible remarks you have personally today handed over Pakistan's sovereignty to its enemies as a citizen of Pakistan. Do you not have any responsibility towards your own Country, your own State, your own Motherland? Should you not be spending time trying a more saner approach to this complex problem? Think before you speak. Words that come out of one's mouth are like bullets.
GKrishnan
Oct 04, 2010 05:07pm
Professor Syed, Your reply seemed to be a reaction to the stated opinions of the so-called Proud Hindu guy, whose opinions are purely his own. Please desist. The only thing in your favour is that your usage of the English language was correct, whereas the Proud Hindu's usage was atrocious indeed. And when it comes to morality, who among us has the authority to cast the first stone ?
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 09, 2010 12:51am
Comments or talks like these only reflect how petty some people can be. Rise above all the grumbling, educate the people, show respect and tolerance for each other; stop being emotional and learn to think "far sightedly" and postively. Above all learn to put your faith in the Hands of Allah who will help you if Muslims stand steadfast and loyal to each other not blow up the mosques and refrain from killing a brother Muslim. Blocking NATO supply root will serve no purpose, and will be most damaging in the long run. NATO will find an alternate route and many countries around the neighbourhood will allow them to do so. Historically there is never a defeat in practical sense. It is just one or alternate way of acceptance of the norm of civilization.
Tahir Rizvi
Oct 07, 2010 03:40pm
Pakistan and US are jointly trying to get rid of the Terrorists who are hurting the progress and life of both Pakistan and Afghanistan. Let us look at the bigger picture. The incidents of "friendly fire" happen in even those cases where one unit fires by mistake on the other unit of of the same Army. Let us review the procedures and correct the error so that it is not repeated. Pakistani unit was the first to fire the so called "warning shots"? How the US forces were to know whether it is a warning shot or the real shot? We need to correct the situation and stop the "blame game". Please accept that MISTAKES do happen in wars.
Mustafa
Oct 09, 2010 12:50am
Dear Mr. S. Khan, you and I know that the Soviets attacked Afghanistan to make it their territory. With the help of America our Mujahids drove the Soviets out. America did not attack Iraq or Afghanistan to make them their territory. If America wanted to conquer other countries to make it part of America, there is no power on earth to match America. But they will be absurd to have this kind of ambition. When President Bush decided to attack Iraq, half of American population were against this war. Even President Obama who was a Senator at that time, voted against the war. Attacking Afghanistan has different story. America believed Al-Qaida was behind the attack on WTC on 9/11 and their leaders were in Afghanistan. Then Pakistan became involved when the Al-Qaida leaders escaped to Pakistan and Government of Pakistan failed to cooperate with America by capturing them and handing them over to America. Who is right and who is wrong will be decided by Allah on the Day of Judgment. Allah says in the Holy Quran: "If any one killed a person
Auranazeb
Oct 11, 2010 11:58pm
I think most Pakistanis would like to settle in the US. I hope Pakistanis in the US do not try to unsettle the US! We do have a reputation in the West whether we like it or not!!
Mustafa
Oct 11, 2010 11:38pm
Dear Brother Syed Hussain. Thank you for you kind words. I strongly believe if just one person who is planning to blow up to kill people, changes his mind just by reading anything I post, most likely Allah will forgive all my sins and save me from Hell Fire.
GF
Oct 04, 2010 11:24am
You got to be kidding me!! Army being controlled by men controlling the goverment....my friend its other way around. Its always the army running the show. Some time its on the stage and some time its behind the curtains. Our army is in full control of our foriegn and defence policies. Its about time that you guys take responsibility of the mess that paksitan is in today!
G. Din
Oct 07, 2010 12:11pm
"...How many people here will understand the fine line between expressing opinion and advising ?" Apparently, you do! That should count for something, shouldn't it?
G. Din
Oct 07, 2010 12:18pm
Apparently not, if NATO has to come in and clean up the mess missed by your security forces. That is not very complimentary, is it?
Jaleed
Oct 07, 2010 07:31am
Pakistan should permanently blockade the NATO convoy route. Lets see how long they'll survive without supplies. Already defeat is crystal clear to them in Afghanistan. And to the US.
Shafi
Oct 09, 2010 07:00am
It is in Afghanistan, silly.
Shafi
Oct 09, 2010 07:05am
Realist, Your country needs you! Get 100 million Pakistanis behind you then you might change the country!
Shafi
Oct 09, 2010 07:08am
Ram, convince your country to solve the problems between the two countries as quickly as possible to achieve peace you are talking about.
Mustafa
Oct 11, 2010 08:17pm
Dear Brother S. Khan. I appreciate your response. You said "How many innocent men,women and children have we killed in the name of religion". Why did you use the word "WE". Why do you consider yourself as killers? Those who are doing the killing do not represent Islam. I am sure you are aware that on 911 about 3,000 people including Muslims were killed in the name of religion. Since then Muslims killed Muslims, by thousands in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan in the name of religion. Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf: "I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work." In 1938, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech. Question. Would you blame the religion of Christianity for the action of Hitler. The same way, no one should blame the religion of Islam and all Muslims of the world for what the terrorist and militant Muslims have been doing.
Zunera
Oct 07, 2010 08:20am
Too cool!! Thumbs up!!
altaf ahmed
Oct 04, 2010 01:15am
Can someone explain this : why were the security forces firing
S.Khan
Oct 15, 2010 02:41am
I would like to clarify that I was referring to a period of just said "50 odd years"!Unfortunately some of my friends over stretched the period way too much during which every religion or race was trying to capture and dominate each other for one reason or the other!!
Sanara
Oct 07, 2010 06:41am
Shafi- "Resistance - should be within the borders of Afghanistan" when it crosses borders and goes in to another country it is termed terrorism.
S.Khan
Oct 15, 2010 01:56am
Mr Mustafa.......I think we both know who were the people who did it and who were the people who were punished and their countries destroyed. Not a single Iraqi,Afghan or Pakistani planned or executed this insane,inhuman act. Osama and his cohorts were mostly Saudis they had their issues with US and were their partners in the Soviet-Afghan war.We never heard of a suicide bombing in Iraq or Sunni-Shia fight during Saddam days.Same was the situation in Pakistan prior to Talbisation of Pakistan during Gen Zia's days. You are absolutely right, people should not blame the Religion and paint entire followers of Islam with the brush of "terrorist". Every religion have these fringe elements propagating their bigoted,hateful ideology. We all got to work on highlighting the goodness that we all have whether Muslims,Christian,Jews or Hindus.
G. Din
Oct 03, 2010 09:48pm
"...What Pakistanis are saying do not violate our airspace or defined and accepted lines." Does this injunction apply to Taliban, too? Apparently, not. If they can cross the "defined and accepted lines", so can those whom they are fighting. Is that too hard to understand?
Raja Coventry
Oct 03, 2010 08:07pm
Why the Government of Pakistan let the people from its territory to attack Afghanistan to violate the sovereignty of that country in the first place?
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 03, 2010 06:45pm
The one who is proud to be a Hindu should rightfully be proud indeed. Islam calls for tolerance of each others and other people from all walks of life. Fanatism whether from Christians, Jews, Muslims or Hindus must be checked rigorously each time it shows up its ugly head. Fanatism and fanatics and religious bigotry has no place in modern civilization. The concept of veil and burkhas is out dated and there is nothing mentioned in Islam about such practice. It is a few mischievous and hypocritical uneducated Mullahs who wish to retain some sort of twisted control over their women who go on propagating the burkha and veil. Islam simply states that women be moderate and cover up properly when they go out with a view to preventing the flaunting of their body as we see rampant in most Western world where women are scantly clad, and wear torn clothes in the name of fashion. In India and Pakistan as in most African and South East Asian countries the poor beggars can be identified with torn and rag tagged clothes. Yet this way of dressing is a big fashion and industry caters to it. In the West the living and earning philosophy seems to be, "the less you wear and more you expose. the better your marketability and chances of success".
Auranazeb
Oct 07, 2010 04:36am
You are correct. Even during the floods, only the west demonstrated compassion and came to help in real terms with men, materila nad money. The so called Muslim Brothers/ Countries" little siad is better. Our People of Pakistan, let us learn to read all and every thought and creed and be enlightened, othewise we will be doomed in darkness.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 10, 2010 11:48pm
This is a very sensible reminder for all Muslims to heed. It would help if there were more balanced people like Mustafa who go on to educate others on uniformity of all mankind.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 10, 2010 11:51pm
This is another of the sane and rational voice of a thinking person. He is correct that instead of fighting each other and putting one another down, an open-minded two way dialogue is a better alternative to put an end to the menace of terrorism.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 10, 2010 11:58pm
It is very encouraging to read such comments and to know that some of our people are willing to forgive and move along when mistakes or un-called for mishaps occur in a battle. Now that NATO and the US has accepted its mistake, and apologized for the intrusion into Pakistani Airspace, it is time as Tahir says to "review procedures" to ensure these type of infringes and intrusions do not happen again.
two_worlds
Oct 03, 2010 01:44pm
there are some facts missing from the debate . 1. the border forces first fired at NATO. albeit warning shots but in hot pursuit , one can
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 11, 2010 12:19am
S. Khan's comments that
LahoriJUTT
Oct 07, 2010 01:27am
Please stick to whatever your Ph. D was in, because your knowledge of Islam is appalling.
Darky, Lahore
Oct 07, 2010 01:03am
the aid issue is overstated. Pakistan can easily make do without the loans, in fact we will be better without it in the long run. we wont be saddled with the cost of debt servicing, and see it all squandered by politicians.
Darky, Lahore
Oct 07, 2010 12:57am
we can pay our bills. the Pakistani states revenue has more than doubled since 2005. our only problem is these political leaders are skimming our tax revenues. Pakistan has no fiscal need to take loans of any kind, and the government's financial policy is a disaster.Pakistan is on record to have a record year in terms of tax collection, an increase of 7 percent on last year, more than 1.3 trillion rupees.
Darky, Lahore
Oct 07, 2010 12:51am
Americans are frustrated? then why are they desperately trying to make a peace deal with the Taliban? and equally desperately trying to make us fight them? Pakistanis are not silly, and we will not be deceived into starting a civil war in our own country.
Darky, Lahore
Oct 07, 2010 12:32am
a small part of the thin strip of th fata tribal areas, is waging war all over the huge landmass of afghanistan. and the nato forces are impotent or incompetent? while more pakistani soldiers have died in the wot in south asia, than any other country?
Priya Rathore
Oct 03, 2010 06:17am
Dear Mr.Shafi, the militants have been attacking and fleeing into Pakistan for a long time. It is only fair that they are pursued and brought to book. Sure, it is regrettable that Pakistan's military personnel were caught in the crossfire. But shouldn't they have stopped the militants in the first place? Is combating militancy the duty of the rest of the world and not Pakistan? I know you'll cite Swat and S.Waziristan operations. All these operations did was send the militants into hiding only to surface when the army left.
MUDDASSIR
Oct 03, 2010 05:14am
I agree with you Mr. shafi.......i think Mr. Ram gives little value to the lives of pakistanis....
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 03, 2010 04:06am
As an American you must surely know and understand that it is the failure of the American policies in Afganistan after explusion of the Russians and their hasty withdrawal from Afganistan leaving behind billions of dollar of military hardware in every corner of Afganisatn and massively destroyed infrastructure in Afganisatn that gave rise to the extremist element who had nothing but to take up arms to loot and plunder. The Americans trained and armed the Talibans and the Al-Qeeda, and abandoned them when their objective was achieved. So now it is the extremist element there who are playing the same coniving game with the Americans who so unwittingly have self-destrouyed their economy in pursuit of an equally cinning and elusive enemy who is out to destroy all those countries, including Pakistan who help the United States. Do not shift the blame on Pakistan and the Pakistanis. The Americans have disturbed the hornets nest themselves.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 03, 2010 03:54am
Which world are you talking about that is sick of Pakistan? The United States, the United Kingdom or Europe? If you lived in those countries you would see that those you call the "world" who are sick of Pakistan are quite honestly sick themselves. Every religion and every country including Pakistan and the countries mentioned above have some element of fanatism and extresmists in their society. We who live here see this on a regular basis as eye witnesses, but that does not mean that these countries are bad. They know how sick they are and have the courage to nurse themselves to health and vitality through sane thinking and common sense. Unfortunately the society in Pakistan does not appear to be able to control its own sickness and is always looking to outside world for help. My advise is "heal thyself from within" before putting out remarks that 'the world is sick and tired of Pakistan and its inability to deal with Islamic extremism". Why would or should non-Muslim/non-Islamic countries have to show you how to deal with Islamic extremism? Islamic extremism is the creation of Muslims themselves. We have all deviated from the Truth which is out there. The salvation of all Pakistanis lies in strengthening their belief and ask ing the Good Lord for forgiveness, and showing tolerance and respect for all religions because they all spring from One Source only.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 03, 2010 03:38am
To understand how borders or boundaries get their definition one must understand that in every law there is what is known as the "law and practice". While the Durand Line is not a "border", it is nevertheless recognized as one through years of practice and custom in the geo-politics of the sub-continent and internationally accepted. Even the Russians, the occupiers of Afganistan during the Mujahideen War respected the durand Line and did not dare cross the Pakistani border in pursuit of their enemy. They recognized and respected the Durand Line. Likewise there is no Line of Control (LOC) between Indian and Pakistani controlled Kashmir, yet both respect it and consciously avoid crossing into each other's space. What is so different for Durand Line? Now Consider this: when you buy a piece of land or lease a land from the government to build your house, the house when built belongs to you but the land always belongs to the state. The land is yours for 99 years only. The state once it leases the land to you cannot and does not infringe or trespass on your house without asking for your permission to enter it first. Nobody is saying don't fight terrorism. What Pakistanis are saying do not violate our airspace or defined and accepted lines.
M. Aslam
Oct 03, 2010 03:30am
It is thought provoking commentary. The Establishment, if there is any, need to look at it seriously.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 03, 2010 03:21am
If "three NATO soldiers" were killed by Pakistani forces in an act of war or in actual combat, they would be classified as "casualties of war" and not as "collateral damage". They would be deemed combatants. On the other hand if the "three NATO soldiers" were killed while manning their posts and not involved in a combat, then yes you could classify them as "collateral damage". There is a difference in the two situation.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 03, 2010 03:16am
While the United States and Pakistan have a "mutual enemy" and therefore must co-operate on the battle front, the right of pursuit of that enemy inside Pakistan's national boundaries lies solely with the authorities in Pakistan as a sovereign state. In today's modern warefare the information can be easily and instantly shared between two friendly forces fighting a common enemy. That is why friendly countries conduct joint war games in advance to hammer out the logistics and forge a military cooperation. Allowing such frequent airspace violations to go unchallenged by NATO could give rise to an unhealthy precedent whereby every country would go into each other's country on some pretext. Enough is enough. Friends or foes, there are specific rules of engagement in war and defined protocols and pre-defined parameters to be followed. Surely Ram is not suggesting that he will allow his friends the right of entry into his home without his inviting them over, or without any prior arrangement or understanding? When two combatants fight in any war, deaths are expected. Collateral damage is when innocent civilians or non-war related property is damaged in the process. Then there is the "friendly fire" where allied soldiers (soldiers on the same side but from different countries) get caught in the cross fire or through a human error. The Pakistani soldiers who died as a result of NATO pursuit and intrusion inside Pakistan cannot be classified as "collateral damage". They were non-participants and were caught unaware.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 11, 2010 12:51am
Have you ever read, understood and followed the Quran carefully? I suggest you should begin by reading Surah Yasin first and follow it up by Surah Bakrah. Both the time keep your mind open and unbiased, and you will hear the Quran speaking to you. Only with age, wisdom and experience your comprehension will show you the Light. Light comes in when the doors to a blocked mind are open. Again read my comments carefully with an open mind, and May the God Lord grant you wisdom.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 11, 2010 01:10am
Everybody knows damn well when, why and how Pakistan got "embroiled" as you say in Afganistan. In another sense why is India now involved in Afganistan with numerous counsulates across Afghanistan on the border towns of Afganistan & Pakistan? Every country pursues its own strategic interests and seeks to protect them. Training and arming the Mujahideens and then letting them loose on the Russians was an American idea that originated in Washington, to which even India subscribed in the name of its own strategic interests, but carried out by the blood of Pakistanis and Afghanistanis. There is no moral high ground in pursuing any strategic interests or going to war on any pretext, and frankly there never is ever any high moral ground for any such justification. My earlier comments sought to put the situation in proper prespective, and is not as you say, "trying to place blame on the other person.." If anything it is a call for soul searching on all combatants and participants whether in the US, or Russia, Pakistan, Afganistan or India. Unfortunately depite one's best intent, political greed and control over rules all "fixes".
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 11, 2010 05:45pm
That is a totally absurd logic. The comments, "A country that cannot pay its bills is, by definition, not sovereign" is very misleading and totally incorrect. A country that cannot pay its debt is legally speaking an "insolvent" country. not being able to pay the debts has nothing to do with soverignity. Today as we speak some Latin American countries, a few South East Asian countries and major European countries including the UK and the US cannot afford to pay their debts, but they are still sovereign states.
IK
Oct 02, 2010 04:32pm
shyema actually wrote this!! wah wah... establishment truly has to decide.....
Tahir Rizvi
Oct 02, 2010 05:12pm
The U.S. is the only friend Pakistan has had since its independence in August 1947. It is about time Pakistanis realize it and start acting friendly to the U.S and its people. Pakistan has always supported Muslim countries but never received any support back in return. It is about time Pakistanis recognize the historical facts and accept that the only friend Pakistan has is the United States of America.
Tuahaa
Oct 02, 2010 05:17pm
Agreed! I wish our government did this a long time ago.
satwa gunam
Oct 02, 2010 06:11pm
Hi, Pakistan is asking nobody is ready to give anything without a price. It is the choice of pakistan what to do.
Proud to be Hindu
Oct 02, 2010 09:14pm
This is the war not only for Pakistan but for whole world. irrespective of borders the terrorist should be hunt down. They are no ones friend. Not even of Islam. They have brought more shame to Islam then respect. Before this menace west was not ar war with islam but now it is. If one can read the newspapers from west UK,Netherlands,France,Germany and Denmark all have very powerful party
achilles
Oct 02, 2010 11:52pm
well, Every thing is clear quite a little.that the Pakistani think tank clearly doesn't know what is happening. it's really heartbreaking. but it's the Pakistanis alone to be blamed themselves for the situation they are in. instead of thinking of India they should try to focus on their own problems. No other nation is receiving aid like them. They have an excellent human resource which their politicians have corrupted and massacred.
Mohammed Pathan
Oct 06, 2010 07:27pm
Poor Man's wife is everybody's wife
hellooutthere
Oct 02, 2010 04:07pm
i am an american and i can understand your rage...it is the same rage felt by americans when american soldiers are killed in incidents termed "friendly fire" in which soldiers are killed by their fellow troops ...and yes i think (hope) this was an accident just like the accidental death of pat tillman, an american solider killed in iraq by "friendly fire", who
Bido
Oct 02, 2010 03:23pm
Civillian Governments in Pakistan merely hold fort for a military dictator who is waiting around the corner. That is the unpalatable and sad truth.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 11, 2010 12:36am
Every Pakistani life lost is a personal matter regardless of whether the people are killed by helicopter or through drones. The dead are all Pakistanis and our brothers. The alterative to drone is the "carpet-style" bombing by B52 and Stealth bombers that the US used in Vietnam. The results were disasterous. Drones compared to indiscrimate bombing are more precise and target oriented. The technology though not entirely perfect is near perfect. It is unfortunate and cowardly when the identified terrorists seek to co-mingle with the innocent to protect themselves from attack or pursuit. Look around you and you will see that everyday somewhere there springs a very dis-illusioned, and "duped" young Muslim to act as a proxy of these terrorists whose aim is nothing but to "help the US economic interests in the region by creating chaos and continuing to invite them subtly". The terrorists cannot defeat the US because they do not have the wherewithal or the capacity. For all we know there maybe another sinister strategy and or tacit approval inherent in their action of using drones. No sovereignity is violated as such.
Shafi
Oct 02, 2010 01:46pm
What if three NATO soldiers were killed By Pakistani forces? Would they consider it collateral damage.? Unlikely!
Shafi
Oct 02, 2010 01:40pm
You call them 'terrorists' they call themselves 'resistance' against the occupying forces!
Expatriate (usa)
Oct 10, 2010 04:30pm
Every terrorist act committed in the world, somehow ends up having link/links in Pakistan. Right or wrong there is a perception that Pakistan is a hot bed of terrorism. Any sort of country's border violation by US & allies is being considered a defensive act. Americans know that Pakistan being a client state has a limited clout in the world, therefore crossing border in pursuit of Talibans is justifiable. Pakistan during Zia U. Haq's dictatorial rule was party to creation of so called mujahids with proactive support of CIA. Same mujahids are now enemies of Pakistan. When you bring a devil in your neighborhood, either throw him out or learn to live with it. Pakistan can't do either.
Agnostic
Oct 02, 2010 12:45pm
Well said... Educating masses is the key... But then aren't you already educating masses with verses from The Book? If Zakir is correct about the perfection of The God given Book, what matters education? Or... Are tAlking about western style education? Make up your mind.
Sajjad Ahmed
Oct 02, 2010 12:40pm
Someone mentioned above that we are in no position to retaliate now. Yes sir, you are right in a way. Our army shouldn
Nadeem
Oct 02, 2010 12:20pm
Correct. Plus we should also analyze whether living without external aid is possible or not, considering the costs of this aid.
RS
Oct 02, 2010 10:18am
brilliant just brilliant...Althaf has done a perfect analysis, communicated the core problem and hinted towards the logical course of action from both sides in just about 6 sentences ......this is what all analyst, editors, journalists reporters around the globe haven't been able to do in the past 10 years.
Mustafa
Oct 06, 2010 06:20pm
Militants and terrorists are responsible for the death of all innocents just as Hitler and all Nazis were responsible for millions of innocents' deaths in World War II. During war soldiers die at the hands of enemies as well as by friendly fires and accidents. When bombers bomb enemies, they can not separate innocents from enemies. If America, Britain and all allies had not gone after Hitler and Nazis for fear of death of innocent civilians, the world of today would not be a free world. Hitler destroyed Jews, the next would be on his list "Muslims". Pakistan has to pay the price of innocents' deaths to make Pakistan a terror free country for future generation. May Allah save Pakistan from its enemies and reward Pakistan for its scarifices.
Murtaza Ali Jafri
Oct 02, 2010 09:43am
and how many of those resulted in the death of Pakistani soldiers?
S. A. M.
Oct 02, 2010 07:47am
Although we are very poor and we are surviving on aid given by the US/EU but someone who is trying to take undue advantage of someone's difficult times may also find itself in deep troubles. you know bad actions come back to you like Boomerang. I wonder if it is our bad deeds that we are in such severe troubles. If this is the case the best thing is to accept our mistakes witha firm resolution that these shall never be repeated and that we shall do only good for the world. (SOunds like a teacher giving sermon to a naughty student!)
sanam ali
Oct 02, 2010 05:52am
My American friend, international politics has been every thing but fair. I am strongly against all forms of extremism and militancy. But America also needs to stop a double faced game interantionally. For example, American role in Middle East peace process. American double standards towards nuclear proliferation issue i.e. stop Iran acquiring nuclear technology but provide high-tech tecnology to India. America is also playing a dubious role in Kashmir issue. America needs to realise that war in Afghanistan cannot be won by targeting innocent Pakistanis living along the border with Afghanistan but defeating militants and extremists stratgically. The strategic dominance can only be achieved by avoiding double faced game interantionally and being fair. With an already growing anti American sentiment in Pakistan, American leadership needs to understand the senstivities of political government and the degree to which this can be exploited by the extremists. Just by giving dollars to others, you can't demand others to be fair. This is not human value. Human value, instead, is to help others financially while being fair. Chinese are doing it across the globe. That's why they are rising but America isn't. Does it sound fair?
shiva
Oct 02, 2010 05:44am
This is a very tough situation - but has Pakistan ever excercised true control (sovereignity) over those wild-lands? Given that the NATO and Afghan soldiers in Afghanistan are being regularly slaughtered by the terrorist raiding-parties based in N. Waziristan, what should NATO do? Firstly, persuade the Pak troops to eliminate the terrorists in N.Waziristan. But after many years of inability of Pak troops to act against the pro-Pak Afghan Taliban in N. Waziristan, shouldn't NATO do something to protect their own/Afghan troops? Ideally, Pak can tell NATO "We are very busy with many other things, so please take targeted action in N. Waziristan (only) to protect your troops in Afghanistan". "Militants may not recognise borders but security forces should" does not look at the real problem. Clearly NATO does not want to take over any Pak land, just protecting themselves through tactical measures.
Ram
Oct 02, 2010 12:51am
Sir, billions of dollars is not few hundred dollars. It is hard-earned money of American citizens who sacrificed enoromous wealth and loss of lives of their sons to save Iraq from a tyrant and are sacrifycing as we speak in Afghanistan. It is important to do some soul searching and ask 'how much our double-talk and double-face is healping us"?
Ram
Oct 02, 2010 12:47am
The security forces that died during NATO's action inside Pakistan should be treated as collateral damage. It is war after all. US and Pakistan are on the same side. So, I dont understand why a brief and necessary violation of airspace by a friendly force to pursue unfriendly targets must be questioned.
Mohammad A Dar
Oct 01, 2010 10:28pm
One can fool himself as much as he wants or play to be fooled but the fact remains, target is not Alqida or Taliban but Pakistan and Islam. Did any one ever figure out what does a circle of 360 degrees (Helkah) means and why it was divided in to two or trinity of 180 degrees. Who ever can figure it out he can find the answer for this war. No matter how much Pakistanis will oblige designs of gentiles (slaves) of pot head pretending to be Gods chosen will never change. Time to awake up Pakistan.
Shahanshah
Oct 01, 2010 10:30pm
Why are you advising then ? How many people here will understand the fine line between expressing opinion and advising ?
paagle
Oct 01, 2010 09:53pm
What is this "sovereignty"? Pakistan has little or no control over major portions of its country. If Pakistan had sovereignty in these regions, presumably it would prevent 7th century theocrats from using "Pakistani" territory for waging war in Afghanistan.
G. Din
Oct 01, 2010 08:37pm
If a country calls itself "sovereign", it is responsible for all actions emanating from its territory. If a man has pit bulls on his property and those pit bulls attack a neighour, the latter has every right to go in and take out those pit bulls if the police does not do it before him. But, we have no such police in the world today. So, whether you like it or not, either you take them out or those others will come in and do that for you. So, what is the hullabaloo about?
G. Din
Oct 01, 2010 08:26pm
Can you stand up against them?
Pradeep
Oct 03, 2010 10:52am
This is a tired old argument. Why did Pakistan get involved in the Afghan imbroglio in the first place? The fact remains that it was in your security interests to allow the mujahideen too. Trying to place all the blame on the other person might make feel a temporary moral high ground. However real soul searching is needed to actually fix the issues in the real world.
IKN
Oct 10, 2010 02:44am
Syed N. Hussain : We were discussing sovereignty of the country violated by NATO. From your comments , it appears you are approving the killing of tribal people.We know violence breeds violence. It seems you are suggesting violence committed by foreign power in tribal belt is excusable.
Muazzam Waqas
Oct 01, 2010 06:27pm
I have no words to condemn all this but i request to PAK government that jst not think about the "AID" keep alive the pakistan and forces which is more valuable than our lives....
Shafi
Oct 01, 2010 06:20pm
There is another side of the coin too which is believed by the Afghans and that is that the foreign forces are occupying Afghanistan. Who are they liberating it from? From Afghans? The people who are fighting these foreign forces are nothing but Afghans and foreigners call them Taliban in their own interest. Foreign forces are not fighting Al-Quaida the organisation behind any terrorist attacks. If a western country was occupied what would the natives do? What did the resistance do during the German occupations? Fight the occupier. Where ever there has been an 'occupation' there has been armed struggle. That is the bottom line.
R S JOHAR
Oct 01, 2010 05:20pm
I agree with Suvhasis. Its time for Pakistan to review its policy on terrorism which it continues to pursue with disastrous consequences. Americans appear to be quite frustrated since Pakistan Army is not commencing operations in NW and decided to take action on its own.
Shazzi0507
Oct 01, 2010 05:13pm
The one thing I do not understand is that why do we get flamed up on our country's sovereignty being violated? Why is it that only territorial sovereignty is given so much attention? Let me tell all the people commenting here is that sovereignty is compromised the moment one starts taking orders from someone else (an outsider). Pakistan has been on that track for decades. If decision and policy making is heavily influenced or even accepted on someone else's terms, sovereignty is automatically compromise. We should stop crying over airspace violations and take back our country so that we make decisions based on our national interests rather than someone else's---whoever that might be!
Charminar
Oct 06, 2010 04:35pm
Why Pakistan allows drone attacks and makes a big hue and cry about the helicopter attack? Your sovereignty is being trampled pretty much every day by the drones. Now this time since the military is being attacked the Pakistani are taking it pretty personal. But why do you treat military above ordinary citizen who are dying willy nilly by these drone attacks for years now. May be this time NATO has officially acknowledged that they entered the Pakistani territory, but the fact remains same that they have been doing this openly for years with drones except officially acknowledging it.
Murtaza Ali Jafri
Oct 01, 2010 03:25pm
For starter I struggle to remember anything at this level going on during the military dictators rule. However, if you favor the blame the last guy, script, should we just continue to make excuses? How about blaming corruption on Zia Ul Haq? I refuse to believe that the govt. can't stop them and still maintain their govt. If they actually stood up for Pakistan instead of their bank accounts, they'd realize how by standing up to the Americans and saving the military, they'd be yielding far greater power, both within the military and the populace. I actually don't care who is pro or anti mush. The excuses are just pathetic? Care to blame the floods on the wretched Military dictator as well?
Alamsher Wazir
Oct 01, 2010 01:54pm
Krishnanji : My comments were purely satirical. It is not the first time that Pakistani soldiers were killed by NATO forces. It happened in the past but unfortunately no conrete steps were taken to prevent such tragic incident. Thanks for your comments.
Boston
Oct 01, 2010 01:25pm
It's the responsibility of all self-respecting people to fight off the shackles of tyranny. Some of us are trying to do it in the US, too
jssidhoo
Oct 01, 2010 12:12pm
Rahim you r right India is not your enemy . We want a strong and vibrant Pakistan every sensible man wants a friendly neighborhood .We need peace and defense budgets which r 1/10th of what they r today . Spend the money on education and everything else will follow
Vince
Oct 01, 2010 12:09pm
Yes you should all protest and tell the E.U. and the U.S to stop sending aid money.
fida
Oct 01, 2010 11:19am
War on terror is 'war" with out borders because modern terrorism is not confined by borders or boundaries and we need to understand this. Especially our military is involved in pursuing its interest. This is but natural that international community have to do some thing save the humanity from the scourge of terrorism. Interestlying Durand line is not a border but a geographical expression.
Zeeshan
Oct 01, 2010 11:03am
i agree but america does not like this model. we have seen them attacking iraq, afghanistan coz they were ready to live in isolation... if they wanted this model, they could have left the region a long time ago and leavin us on our own.
G.sriniwasan
Oct 01, 2010 10:14am
Kudos to Sheyma for a thought provoking article.The Pakistani state has enslaved themselves to the Americans,can they now protest on grounds of Soverignity.Security and Soverignity for a Nation comes with a Price.On one hand Pakistan State is going around to US/EU and International Financial Institutions with a Begging Bowl and on the hand protest about its infringement of territorial Intergrity. It is time,Pakistani state,its people,its Instiutions sets its House in Order.Respect will follow.
Salman Hasan
Oct 01, 2010 10:13am
The world is sick and tired of Pakistan and its inability to deal with Islamic extremism. The question is, what will it take for us Pakistanis to finally say enough is enough? Until that happens, the drone strikes will continue and Nato incursions will increase in frequency, so we might as well learn to live with it.
Suvhasis
Oct 01, 2010 09:29am
Hi Shyema - I am an American, and I understand the pain here. However, Pak needs to do a bit of soul searching. The double faced game must stop. You cannot let a hornets nest fester (which is harming others) and play a wink-wink game - that is, winking at the allies and taking their dollars, and winking at the militants at the same time !! Whether it is the drone attacks, or Pak stalling of action in North Waziristan, your govt must take an unambiguous and clear stand. Does the above sound fair?
Hammad
Sep 30, 2010 11:12am
Agree with you.What more can you expect from an inept govement.An enemy is better than such a wrath of a friend.
sakeel
Oct 06, 2010 02:04pm
It seems like you are trying to get visa to settle in USA.
Ahmed Syed
Oct 01, 2010 08:08am
Now our brave 3 soldiers killed in Nato air strikes. And our govt. has stopped the route of US transport of arms to Nato. Our weak govt. is unable to confront America as America time and again violates our borders. News is there may be another coup. Will our country never have a stable govt.? And Musharaff is planning a comeback. Does he no sense of shame after the Lal Masjid incident and corruption charges pending on him by our court.
GKrishnan
Oct 01, 2010 08:12am
India needs a very strong Pakistan that grows economically, for its own good and India's good, and it needs young Pakistanis who believe in themselves and their country.
Ram
Oct 01, 2010 07:36am
Being an Indian I believe that a stable and prosperous Pakistan is in best interest of India and the whole world. Long live peace!!!
Ali
Oct 01, 2010 07:16am
My friend pakistan does not fight Islam , but a distorted and violent ideology. Taliban and Islam are get different entities and everyone should easily be able to distinguish between the two.
Salman Latif
Oct 01, 2010 07:18am
very aptly put, Sheyma! This alliance is becoming more of a taxing strain than a help. The billions dollars doling in seem to be a silent permission for all the drone attacks, border violations and what not. The question is, is the army having reservations over it too or is it too busy, just like the establishment, making money out of this venture? This question may determine the future course of our policy since a serious stance from army can persuade the establishment to give up dollar dreams and be more practical in policy-making.
imkhalid
Oct 01, 2010 07:12am
@Murtaza Ali Jaffery kindly correct ur self "Interesting that when we had a
A Friend
Oct 01, 2010 06:28am
you need to realize one thing...beggers can't be choosers...
Daud
Oct 01, 2010 06:02am
A country that cannot pay its bills is, by definition, not sovereign.
pasha
Oct 01, 2010 06:00am
for your information Pakistani security forces have done way far better job then what NATO has done in Afghanistan. if Pakistani establishment would have been unwilling they would have never lost thousands of their soldiers in war against the talibans.
chak
Oct 01, 2010 05:45am
Agree with Pokerface here " the rest of the world can
Major Sher Gill, Indian Army
Oct 01, 2010 05:31am
Shyema, I always enjoy reading your articles. Only point i need to point out however is that if soldiers don't pursue terrorists back into their own borders and pursue them, then the terrorists have won already. Then we might as well surrender to the terrorists and stop this international cat and mouse game.
Saad Salman Zia
Oct 01, 2010 04:25am
As much as I am infuriated by this transgression, I still think that the the war against the Taliban is not a war against Islam. People who kill and maim civilians and children are nothing more than brutes and barbarians. The drone attacks are shamefully inconsiderate of the civilian deaths and should be ceased, however, the Taliban shouldn't be allowed to hold sway knowing the damage they have already done to us over the last 20 years.
Dr. Inam
Oct 01, 2010 04:20am
Truly said the soverignity is only damaged if a country has one
Rahim
Oct 01, 2010 04:18am
Well said! Your Army and Politicians are your enemy, not India. USA, Europe and even India understand your pain in hours of your need. Brother, come out in public and protest peacefully against those who is making you suffer and bankrupt every day. Good bless the hardworking innoncent people in Pakistan!
Rahim
Oct 01, 2010 04:08am
The billions of $ given by injternational community is to hanlle the bad guys and develop your country. To shut the army shop, the public have to come in open and challenge them. Good bless the innoncent and helpless Pakistanis!
GKrishnan
Oct 01, 2010 04:06am
Alamsher ji, when you say that, you do justice neither to yourself nor your countrymen. You need only to take the example of Vietnam from the Seventies. A peoples's identity can never be crushed or wished away. Money won't do the trick !
Waqar
Oct 01, 2010 03:55am
It is is simple, we have sold out our sovereignty against billion of dollars aid.
Allahkaballah
Oct 01, 2010 03:49am
Why show and put up a sham resistance, when we know we are not going to stand up against them.
Shahid
Oct 01, 2010 03:42am
Consider... (A) the US provides financial resources to the country, (B) most of the public never sees the benefit of that money (C) meanwhile the US continues to operate in the NW and other parts of the country, and (D) the Pak government does not admit whether it has approved the foreign incursions (although it might as well given that almost everyone knows what is going on). Conclusion: It is quite clear that the US knows much better than most Pakistanis. What is the solution? It is simple as it is unthinkable: If the Pakistani public wants its government to act in its interest instead of the interests of the US it will have to outbid the US.
Gulshan
Oct 01, 2010 03:15am
I dont have words to express my self. It is simply shameful. Mr. Rehman cant do anything to Nato forces, he can only talk..
Pramod Watekar, Gwangju Korea
Oct 01, 2010 03:16am
Why don't we manage our own affairs rather than poking nose and advising other people on their own matters? Pakistan's relation with Nato is the matter between them, and they have to sort out. We should look at our corruption in CWG and all weather roads which are built every year again and again. Expressing opinion is different, advising is different.
TR
Oct 01, 2010 02:01am
Tottaly agreed..
Concerned Citizen
Oct 01, 2010 01:36am
Does anyone really think USA is feeding/arming Pakistan because of any moral duty ? It is a commercial transaction and Pakistan, like so many times in the past, has already done it's side of the trade by directly/indirectly surrendering it's sovereignty. Period. As Hillary Clinton had said - take it or leave it - no one is forcing the aid on Pakistan. Unfortunately there is no "leader" in Pakistan to take that call - all have their own individual agendas - none of which include Pakistan as a nation.
IKN
Sep 30, 2010 08:21pm
G.A Well said & very true. We have tied our own hands, gaged ourselves for mighty dollars. How can we protest !!
sana
Sep 30, 2010 12:48pm
may Allah save Pakistan and its citizens from all enemies , internal and external. I think the govt is more scared of the US than the masses- maybe we could try and convince the US through peaceful means such as cutting off the NATO supply line . We have elect representatives who will have a fully developed back-bone and not listen to the United States
zenubia
Sep 30, 2010 12:22pm
so everything is the fault of the PPP goverment isnt it? typicallll......... so typical
Jim
Sep 30, 2010 07:49pm
I am an American, and I agree with you.
Anoop
Sep 30, 2010 12:11pm
You say: "If drone strikes are to continue in Pakistan, then instead of further discrediting itself and mocking the intelligence of the nation, the government should boldly say so" --> Which of the many establishments in Pakistan are you talking about? Is it the real power center? The real power center is the Military. Why take pot shots at the Civilians? If they protest or dont protest does it matter?
Althaf Ahmed
Sep 30, 2010 12:07pm
At least, Rehman Malik had the temerity to say the obvious ("Are we allies or enemies?"). To most the answer is also clear - we are indeed enemies. We share the ideology of the militants; the militants do what we are not prepared to do ourselves. It is time for Pakistan to cut all supply lines. Americans and Europeans can end the aid and trade. Both sides can stop issuing visas except for diplomatic travel. If we survive then we will be our own masters. If our economy gets into trouble, our own people will finally accept that change is necessary. There is no other way.
amna
Sep 30, 2010 11:38am
How do you know that Pakistan is not in it...? Till today our GOV repeatedly keeps denying that Drone attacks are carried out from the Pakistani soil, where as everyone know that there are dedicated airbases with the US within Pakistan or that Pakistan will have any control or be heard in the matter?
gotya
Sep 30, 2010 11:31am
You are absolutely correct in saying that Pakistan has already compromised its national security and sovereignty. Just give a foothold to US and it will ask for miles.
Sarrajo
Sep 30, 2010 11:29am
There is no reason for Pakistan to cooperate with the US. Pakistan is on the wrong side of the war, and should spurn the bribes that keep it there. For an Islamic country to fight Islam is more than slightly absurd, as absurd as the concept of a meaningful "border" between Afghanistan and Pakistan. Pakistan should chart its own course instead of listening to NATO. Alliances with China could keep it well-armed.
Murtaza Ali Jafri
Sep 30, 2010 11:07am
Here is a simple solution. If we find a NATO craft violating out airspace, they either land or get shot down. Here is the elephant in the room. Were the soldiers doing their jobs or working as mercs and attacking Nato forces using their base within Pakistan. I don't mean to offend the sensibilities of the brave men fighting for Pakistan, but the Pakistani army is highly cohesive and it's not secret that this battle against the Taliban/Fundamentalists is unpopular. We can't afford to negate our relationship with our 'allies', because simply put we can't afford it. With irresponsible govt. spending coupled with the Floods, we're not exactly in the strongest negotiating position. The country is on it's fiscal knees, we're just too blind sighted to notice. If we aren't a country of fools, why do we keep re-electing some of the most corrupt representatives ever to grace the planet. Our "Allies" know they can pay us off, It's that simple. The deal makers that be, don't care if a few Pakistani soldiers die as long as they can bloat their bank accounts a little more. Interesting that when we had a 'Military Dictator' ruling the roost, we never had such shameful occurrences, or atleast to this blatant extent.
Moon
Sep 30, 2010 02:47pm
what ever has been done today in this morning is absolutly unacceptable, coz we are the one who is suffering the most. As the world should acknowledge our secrifices on the war on terror but unfortunatlly we are the one who is getting blamed for having a linkage with the terrorests becouse of this useless bunch of leaders who have got authority to decide what to do and what not to do and they are absolutly got failed to convince the world about the effort and sufferings which we as nation is facing because of this war........i wish this our govt has have got ability to give the answers of the questions of the world.
HAmmad
Sep 30, 2010 06:30pm
The military dictator is the one who pushed our nation in this path of insult. selling its citizens for cash, opening its borders to drone attacks. this Govt is just incapable of reversing that inorder to maintain their govt.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 10, 2010 02:28pm
The usage of the term 'violation of constitutional rights' applies equally to all men and women whether Muslims or non-Muslims. Your inference from my comments are absolutely incorrect; and rightfully so, because people to choose to infere whatever suits them. Islam prohibits the killing of any life without a just cause. To set the matter straight, all Pakistanis who may adher to or subcribe to any religion are Pakistanis foremost, or at least should be. The term Muslim brothers is very specific to and points the finger at those Muslims who kill other Muslims. In my personal opinion no Mullahs dead or alive, and no Government Leader either dead or alive has the right to "ex-communicate" another believer from Islam. Terrorism in whatever shape or form and from which ever source it originates is to be condemned and deplored. There is no inference or suggestion that killing non-Muslims is a fair game. That is absolutely disgusting. All men are brothers of some other men regardless of their religious beliefs.
HAmmad
Sep 30, 2010 06:26pm
Musharraf's excuse for cooperation with america was the popular threat "....or else you would be bombed to the stone age". We are being bombed on a daily basis, increasing every day. inside and outside the country. Its their war not ours. We must take a stand now or be ready to be lost in history for ever. They are not your friend, they are your worst enemy who is here to destroy you inside and out !
Sasindran
Sep 30, 2010 05:08pm
I am an Indian, but read Dawn regularly ever since I reurned from Saudi where I had Pakistani Colleagues.( and know enough about Pakistan ) Yes, I agree with Altaf Ahmed : You people show courage to stand up against your 'FREIND', suffer for some time and then the realisation will dawn what and where needs to change- it will happen automatically; surely your feaudal poiliticins will find theier place ! God Bless Pakistan!
Alamsher Wazir
Sep 30, 2010 05:26pm
They have bought our body & soul, killing of our soldiers does not amount to anything.They will compensate the bereaved family with few hundred dollars, matter will be hushed. We will be friends again.
G.A.
Sep 30, 2010 04:44pm
Sovereignty is only violated of a country that is sovereign!
Harish Bansal
Sep 30, 2010 04:22pm
Well Said.
Shafi
Sep 30, 2010 04:25pm
Agreed....
MC
Sep 30, 2010 04:16pm
and if they thought pakistan is beyond fixing they should not have participated in elections.
SK
Sep 30, 2010 04:15pm
Friendly fires are not uncommon in conflicts. Remember Pat Tilman and Canadians came under friendly fire not too long ago? let the investigation take its due course before jumping to conclusions.
Cautious
Sep 30, 2010 02:55pm
Your "simple" solution is too "simple". Does anyone really think that your air force would survive 7 days in a confrontation with the USA - I doubt your air force is looking forward to that confrontation. The reality is that the USA as a significant air force which is basically doing nothing now and "looking for work" - something to consider when you argue for war. Perhaps the "simple" solution is for Pakistan to control it's territories and eliminate the militants - or acknowledge that it can't control the territories and let others do what they must to eliminate the militants. A combined operation is way over due.
The Realist
Sep 30, 2010 02:57pm
The country is so dependent on foreign aid (read US) - be it in times of stress or natural functioning. How does one expect to have any leverage in any dealings except ones that come with its geographic location? Unless the educated and young rise beyond the caste, creed and social status to free the nation of its socio-economic shackles, this state of affairs would continue. Are there any (true) leaders in the house? Are there learned ones who are ready to work for "free" or donate their blood, sweat and time to the betterment of the national cause? Forget about India and eastern border ... India is very focused on bettering itself. It does not and will not need Pakistan or it;s territory. Focus on what is goof for Pakistan.
Syed N. Hussain, Ph.D
Oct 10, 2010 02:38pm
Nothing is excusable except what is one's one mind. Killing of innocent tribal people is most deplorable and must stop. It is a disproportionate and un-called for action of NATO. in my opinion the United States and its Allies are to be charged for crimes against humanity. If you read my earlier comments, you will note and infer that what I am saying is that the leaders of the tribal belt areas have a moral and social responsibility to rein-in the miscreants who somehow have the twisted notion that they have the moral right to impose their doctrine on other free people in rest of the world including Afganistan & Pakistan. When bombs fall remember that it knows no innocent people below, and are a reaction of the action initiated by the terrorists. It always takes two to tango much as you cannot clap with one hand. In scientific terms, you can say that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. If we initiate violence, it will bring more violence. Some people call it "karma".
Iftikhar Husain
Oct 09, 2010 11:32am
Very well written article it is time when partners sit down and talk their strategy for future course of action. This menace is long term should be woked out in details and the parties should stick to it.
Waqas Chaudhary
Sep 30, 2010 02:09pm
Parag, I think what Sheyma meant by that was militants and terrorists do not hold any code of ethics or are not bounded by international laws and diplomatic relations. The international security forces however should respect the sovereignty of Pakistan as they are bound by international law. No one is saying what the militants do is right, but do you really expect militants to be tolerant of border demarcations and courteous to international law? lol Additionally, I think the Pakistani Government either has given permission or simply turns a blind eye to these drone and cross border attacks. And issues statements (almost everything Rehman Malik says) just to quell the public's reaction and backlash.
ramzan lakhani
Oct 11, 2010 04:52am
Wise man....or trying to be Even Nato expressed apology on the incidence..........
Pokerface
Sep 30, 2010 05:50pm
khalid
Sep 30, 2010 02:06pm
We can either accept the foreign aid and monitory support or have our soverignity. By far the aid money does not reach us and does not help the public. About time we should reject all aid and live within our means. Case of point is that power load sheding is still an issue despite receiving billions in aid! So we can live without power/water in future as we are living today. Alternative is that we have to listen to our masters. I don't blame anyone from other nations to push their agenda on us if they are spending money on us. Beggers always have to listen to their masters. Educating masses and promoting industry to become self-relient can only solve our problems.
San
Oct 11, 2010 08:22am
>>Muslims are the most tolerant and friendly of all religions
Auranazeb
Oct 19, 2010 09:06am
Mr. Khalid Hussain, Well said. Muslims can preach to others about Islam, encourage other to read the Quran, live in the west as Muslims, practice, preach etc. The same privilege and dignity and freedom should be given to members of other religion / faiths in a so called Muslim country. They should be allowed to preach their religion to a Muslim, encourage Muslims to read Scriptures of other religions. Other religious groups should be able to freely practice their religion, as Muslims seek such privileges. If a non-Muslim can change their religion and become a Muslim, a Muslim should also be allowed to change his or her religion if one chooses to do so. If Muslim countries wishes to enforce sharia on the non-Muslims, living in their lands. Burn their places of worship, forbid any Muslim from converting his or her religion. but expect everyone to become a Muslim, THEN France, Germany and other nations in the West are obviously going to take a hard line view against Muslims living in their lands. Are they correct to do so? Do average peace loving Muslims agree to this?
sana
Sep 30, 2010 12:52pm
How about logical and rational- as they are the ones who are ruling this nation . If they wanted they could fix a lot of things.
Parag
Sep 30, 2010 12:53pm
The last statement is so so flawed - "Militants may not recognize borders but security forces should." Why ? So that any band of militants can take pot-shots at the security forces and then melt across the border ?
Neel
Oct 10, 2010 12:39pm
@ Dr. Hussain: Quite strange comments about the definition of 'violation of constitutional rights'. One can infer from your comments as if killing of non-Muslims is a 'fair game', blowing up the prayer places of non-muslims is not a violation of constitutional rights!? What is this obsession with "Muslim-brothers"!? Why can't a person of your caliber (a Ph.D.) use words like 'Pakistani citizens' or 'humans'!? If a person, as learned as you are, confines his criticism only to 'Muslim-deaths'; Whats wrong in extremists in blowing Shia's procession or Ahamdi's procession. After all these 'extremists' are also on the same track of Muslim'ism, only difference is: Their definition of 'muslim' is much narrower (Ahamdis are non-muslims, ppl going to Data Darbar and Shrines are also non-muslims) And their actions much stricter !! Kinds regards. A Human.
biku
Sep 30, 2010 01:29pm
Sana Pakistan has no external or internal enemy . It is his own enemy and trth is pakistan loves to create/imazine enemies.