23 August, 2014 / Shawwal 26, 1435

-Illustration by Abro.
-Illustration by Abro.

Last week I wrote for this blog, a short piece that I titled “If Jinnah had lived”. Using the example of Nelson Mandela, who led a bitterly divided South Africa into a post-Apartheid era, without allowing it to plunge into an orgy of vengeful violence, I posed the question of what Pakistan’s present may have looked like, if its own visionary Mohammad Ali Jinnah had lived longer. The idea, was to provoke Pakistanis, who stand today at the cusp of choosing new leaders, to consider the importance of leadership in trying circumstances. Particularly important to me, was the ambiguity of grand historical moments, Partition for Pakistan and the end of Apartheid for South Africans and the ability of exemplary men to translate their uncertainty into iconic change.

No sooner had the blog been published on the Dawn website, that it was barraged by comments, some posted publicly and some making their way into my email account. A healthy majority seemed to originate from across the border, and a majority were virulent, angry and even hateful in their content. Jinnah must never be compared to Mandela, one said; ranting on about how one man united a country and another divided a subcontinent. Others fixated to a typo in the body of the article (no I did not mean white majority it was obviously a mistake).

The letters themselves were not entirely surprising, Indians and Pakistanis nourished as they both are on hefty spoonfuls of hatred and variously weighed accounts of revised history are never hesitant to pounce on one and another. What did perturb was not their rhetoric, but the concerted verve with which they chose to avoid the point of the article. The sum total of attacks directed all their invective energy at insisting that Mohammad Ali Jinnah was not worthy of being compared to the Nobel Peace Prize winning, 27 year prison surviving Mandela. (Yes, I also know that Jinnah did not go to prison) In insisting on whether I could or could not compare the two as if such permissions must be procured by op-ed writers beforehand, nearly all of the responses missed the question as it was posed and which must be reiterated here: How important are leaders in leading countries through arduous and emotionally painful transitions?

In their passion and anger of these retorts, however, lay a single truth that I had not expected to find.  Nearly 66 years, a whole lifetime and at least two generations after Partition, the sting and aches of its wounds seems to lie still unhealed and still festering. In South Africa, in the immediate aftermath after Apartheid, a Truth and Reconciliation Commission was created to provide a venue for moving from fury to friendship or at least some minimal fellowship. Underneath the creation of the Commission, was the realisation that unless some institutionalised venue was formed for the task of creating a version of history that could be embraced by all South Africans, the country could not move on as one country.

Pakistan and India were not one country, and so no such overture was deemed necessary. Indeed, the militaries and Governments on either side, eager to build loyal vote banks on the backbones of nationalism, emphasised difference, and hatred, intent on keeping populations polarised. In this calculation, the truths of Partition were largely lost, deployed in the service of proving that one and not both countries could ever be right. Mohammad Ali Jinnah, the architect of Pakistan in the Indian version of Partition, is thus an eternal bogeyman, Pakistan, the forever rogue and runaway state. This perception, it seems from the remarks of Indian readers, continues to persist today, and so Indians cannot bear the comparison of Jinnah’s life with that of Nelson Mandela. In this equation, no chance can be lost for vilifying him who envisioned Pakistan, no voices spared in insisting that the country that lives next door should never have been created at all.

Jinnah did not live, and Pakistan continues to battle the conundrums of unanswered questions left by the untimely departure of the first man with the plan. The Indian readers, who wrote some of the most caustic of the 140 comments on the blog, seem to be relishing Pakistan’s agony, reveling in its pain, unwilling even to allow an author to consider the meaning of the loss of leadership. All of it goes to ask another question and pose another possibility; perhaps Commissions of Truth and Reconciliation are required not only by countries like South Africa that choose to be one, but also by those that are divided into two. Without them it seems, the sores of old will continue to fester, pouring their pus into even the most incidental of public forums, into considerations directed not at the rightness or wrongness of the historical fact of Partition, but at what exists today and how it can be made better tomorrow.

 


rafia_zakaria_80
Rafia Zakaria is a columnist for DAWN. She is a writer and PhD candidate in Political Philosophy whose work and views have been featured in the New York Times,  Dissent the Progressive, Guernica, and on Al Jazeera English, the BBC, and National Public Radio. She is the author of Silence in Karachi, forthcoming from Beacon Press.

 


The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.


Rafia Zakaria is a columnist for DAWN. She is a writer and PhD candidate in Political Philosophy whose work and views have been featured in the New York Times, Dissent the Progressive, Guernica, and on Al Jazeera English, the BBC, and National Public Radio.

She is the author of Silence in Karachi, forthcoming from Beacon Press.


The views expressed by this blogger and in the following reader comments do not necessarily reflect the views and policies of the Dawn Media Group.

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Comments (144) (Closed)


john
Apr 12, 2013 12:15pm
A Country Born of the Inability to live with Others, Has No Hope IT Will Live with its OWN,,,
Hemant
Apr 12, 2013 12:20pm
Jinnah and the Muslim League never had to struggle for the creation of Pakistan . Neither Jinnah nor even a single Muslim League leader was jailed for even a single day during the freedom struggle . Compare this with 12 years that Mahatama Ghandhi and 17 years that Nehru spent in British jails among countless leaders of the Congress party . Jinnah and Muslim League got Pakistan through patronage and a result of the divide and rule policy of the British . This DNA of seeking patronage of the US ,Saudi and or China of the Pakistan nation owes its seeds to the events leading to its creation . Partition has worked well for India and should not be reversed . However it is open to question if it has worked for Pakistan or Muslims in whose name Pakistan was created . Maulana Azad was very right when he said it was not a partition of India but a partition of the Muslim community which has been left worst off both side of the border . I wish Pakistan well and would prefer it prosperous but that will never happen till the role of Jinnah and Muslim League is reappraised in Pakistan .
haris
Apr 12, 2013 12:21pm
Just ignore our friendly neighbors, don't count them at all and continue writing what you like. After all Dawn is not Times of India.
Nadeem Yasin
Apr 12, 2013 12:27pm
If Jinnah would have lived a bit longer, we might have a different Pakistan Today. In his very short spell, after the creation of Pakistan, he addressed almost all basic pillars of a nation. Lay down the foundation of State Bank of Pakistan, addressed Armed Forces, visited educational institutes, formed a committee to make constitution. Jinnah said that making a constitution is a very difficult job and it may take us from 1 to 1.5 years to make our first constitution, but after his departure, it took us 9 years to make our first constitution. Comparison of Nelson Mandela with Jinnah may or may not be right because circumstances were totally different. There wasn't any British, ruling the South Africa and neither the ideology was the point of conflict between the two in SA. Jinnah was fighting against the two opponents, British and Hindus, and punched both of them with their own gloves. Jinnah never violated any law neither he went to prison, something which can hardly be found in other leaders of the nation. May your Soul Rest in Jannah, Mr. Jinnah.
Zak
Apr 12, 2013 12:34pm
The tragedy is that in 1970's Indra Ghandi had the history books manipulated to feed the generations of Indians coming out with false understanding and not knowing how to deal with this hatred imbued in them. Time the books were rewritten to reality. M.A.Jinnahs status is to lofty and in a league of its own. Nelson Mandela stated that his hero was Jinnah and he would read his life story over and over and get inspired. How Jinnah galvanized his community and achieved independence for them from the British empire. India was not even a consideration. Original map of Pakistan included the north of now India and states of Awadh, but British Mountbatten helped Nehru chip away at the map and lady Mountbatten got copies to Nehru of secret documents as she was having an affair with Nehru. That is the reality. What is amazing is that despite Kashmir, and other states still fighting for freedom still the Indians don't get it. India needs to splinter into independent states.
Sanyam
Apr 12, 2013 12:35pm
Hiya, I am in Indian, living in London. I love to read dawn for the brilliant journalism and to be honest the level of your online website is better than TOI and HT. I do rarely comment on newspaper articles but was sort of evoked just to stress that I do not agree to your statement "on hefty spoonfuls of hatred and variously weighed accounts of revised history". In our education system, cultural values and ethos, hatred is never imbibed. We have learnt and taught to be tolerant. It would be just a handful (not even minority) of people who indulge in anti-pakistan propaganda and probably these people are heard the loudest. Its in our own interest not to fight war with Pakistan. I just hope that sentiments are same across the border as well. There is a lot more to Life than just religion and anti-Semitic views.
basharat
Apr 12, 2013 12:42pm
Rafia - I do not know why the indian reaction has surprised you so much. Let me try to explain using a current example which all liberal Pakistanis would understand. You will agree with me that Baloch state and its people have been deprioved tremendously by the state of Pakistan. If tomorrow, say a great visionary leader comes out of Baloch nationalisim and is able to create an independednt state for itself. What would be the reaction of the rest of Pakistanis? Would they compare him with Nelson Madela ? So, in this resepct the thinking of average Indians and Pakistanis is no different. Any country that is divided will feel the pang for generations. Also how is the leader of Bengali resistance Sheikh Mujib Ur Rehman remembered in the Pakistan of today? Is he compared to Nelson Mandea ? SO there you have it!
Khan
Apr 12, 2013 12:59pm
Why the author is so bothered about Indian readers? You can't change the mentality of people who are production of caste based system , Jinnah sees this first hand while in congress hence he said Hindu and Muslims are 2 different nations and worked for independence. Indians have their own version of truth which is bombarded by their media and syllabus and they grow up hearing the same and which ever part of world they go they carry the same mentality. For every problem in India they blame Pakistan, Bangladesh, china and all the neighbouring countries. China is not a product of independence still Indians hate china to the core. The author or other bloggers of dawn cannot change average communal Indian mindset Jinnah failed to do so so stop trying.
anil
Apr 12, 2013 01:02pm
@Rafia Zakaria Your comparison of Nelson Mandella with M.Jinnah was a msiatake . Glad , You accepted it . Many says it is lack of education which brings thoughts like hatred , racism , religious superiority and inferiority feeling into mind . But all are wrong . Just compare 2 personalities . One is Jinnah and another is Bachha Khan . One was a London educated person and another was an afghani Pashtun with limited education . Difference lies in their thoughts.One non-religious person divided the country on the basis of religion and another devoted person of same community opposed it ferrociously. In my country , a community of 200 millions live a separate for which M.Jinnah had created country .In Jinnah's country , all is not rosy . The mistake Jinnah did is he showed some people a way which goes no where and haunts the very same cause again and again. I wonder what would have happened to South Africa or USA if Mandella or M.Luthar King had said Balck and whites are different countries.
Anonymous
Apr 12, 2013 01:05pm
I know I will be villified for saying this but my view of the creation of Pakistan is slightly different from the commonly held view. The common view is that Pakistan was created as a country for muslims because they were a seperate nation within the sub-continent and therefore, needed a seperate country to live their life according to this seperate path. In contrast, in my understanding this country was created on pure republican principles; to protect the rights of each individual, where he/she could be free to lead his/her life in a peaceful way, in accordance with their heritage, where their differences amongst pakistanis would not be based on religion, ethnicity or nationality but simply in ideas. This was meant to be the perfect republic, in contrast to the theory behind India's formation; a federation. Religion, in particular was never meant to be the defining characteristic. This country was created to protect the rights of the minority, no matter how small it might be, and in this case the minority just happened to be muslims. This is how I read the ideology of Pakistan. Anonymous
pbhgva
Apr 12, 2013 01:31pm
A truth and reconciliation commission is an intriguing idea. It's something I have often wondered about myself. We, in the subcontinent, have still not come to terms with 1947. A truth and reconciliation and commission doesn't have to about proving right one or the other point of view, but would be about acknowledging the pain the countries still bear underneath, recognizing that neither country has lived up to the ideals of their founding parents, but also admitting to some undeniable common bonds (even as separate nations) that we share like no other country, and then finding a path forward as separate countries. By the way, I am an Indian and have visited Pakistan a couple of times and have been fascinated by the struggles and the resilience and the tremendous sense of humor that exists there despite the troubles. It has always been great fun and pleasure to work with my Pakistani colleagues in their country (and there is amazing talent in the country no one speaks about) and seeing the results of these collaborations I have no doubt that Indians and Pakistanis can work together very productively. Perhaps we did so because we worked on common goals and outcomes: somewhere in the recesses of our minds, we had convened our own private T&R commission and put some of the demons to sleep for the good of our larger goal. Perhaps then, instead of a T&R commission, we just need to have opportunities to work together more!
subhash
Apr 12, 2013 01:34pm
As an Indian, I would urge my countrymen to resist the temptation to run their neighbour down. The most important reason for this restraint is - Pakistani writers and bloggers are the first ones to bring their problems into the open. They have the courage to do so. They know what is wrong with their country and face it. We, on the other hand, have media that is loathe to self criticism unless, of course, it can sell. While opinions on Jinnah and Mandela can vary, Indians should make a conscious effort not to feel or look smug only because Pakistan's problems are there for everyone to see. Back in the 70's and 80's Pakistani TV industry was far superior to ours, same was the case in sports. Whatever the reasons for its current state may be, the common Pakistani has nothing to do with it and doesn't need to be told 'you deserve it'. If our journalists were as self critical, we would have a much clearer idea of what is wrong with our own country instead of only celebrating a handful of successful industries. If scams, crime and rotten politics had as much 'international news value' as bombings, we would be looking for a place to hide. All one billion of us.
Hassan
Apr 12, 2013 01:40pm
If Jinnah had lived another 10-15 years he would have been completely bulldozed and sidelined to oblivion by the animated and bully mullahs. Question to pose is: How would have Jinnah compromised and accommodated the likes of Maulana Moududi?
Shabbir
Apr 12, 2013 01:42pm
One very relevant pointer to Jinnah's performance can be gleaned from his first and only trip to Dhaka and how he messed it up by insisting that Urdu alone was going to be the national language. So, here you have the 'founder' of the country who had no idea or respect for the majority of then Pakistanis. One could say that the language movement in East Pakistan was the first battle towards an independent Bangladesh. So, that brings up a big question on how wisely he would have led the country, even if he was alive for several years.
Zafar Malik
Apr 12, 2013 01:56pm
Jinnah was the most secular and democratic of all Indian leaders, both hindus and muslims. He wanted to protect the rights of muslim minority, but always in the context of a united India.Those who blame Jinnah for the destruction of Indian unity have never read the history. There is a huge diffrence between political propaganda and historical reality.
Foha Rafiq
Apr 12, 2013 01:57pm
I am a Pakistani and I agreed with the Indian comments. If you wanted to talk about leaders or lack thereof in Pakistan, you need not to have Nelson Mandela in your argument. We need not forget the Jinnah is a hero only for Pakistani. And I will agree that he divided a country that could have had a great future ahead of it. Obviously, we are still stuck in the past of "if only Jinnah lived." Jinnah had a convoluted idea of having a secular state by making a country based on religion- obviously a highly flawed plan.
Muhammad Rashid
Apr 12, 2013 02:08pm
Pakistan has the ability to live with others i didnt ask abut other you now what i want to indicate
Zaman
Apr 12, 2013 02:09pm
And maybe Rafia , you are missing one more truth that lays naked in all the comments that came on your first article. Pakistan was created exactly for this reason that a large majority was not only insensitive to views of a minority; it was aggressive in even accepting that this minority has a right to have its own understanding of its history and its right in a new free subcontinent. This barrage of hatred only disappoints us, young Pakistanis, even more and we feel that Jinnah was actuallly right in finally accepting this reality (late in his life around 1940) and leading us to create a new country. We dont need any reconciliation commission if there is no passion for one on the other side. We only need to invest ourselves in our own home-Pakistan
a.k.lal
Apr 12, 2013 02:15pm
why not live in and improve present.we can,t change the past, future we can
Pakistani
Apr 12, 2013 02:16pm
Another hateful remarks against Pakistan. Question is that why others get agitated when any Pakistani speak about survival options and success of Pakistan .............. Doesn't that establish the correctness of Jinnah's Two Nation Theory even after passage of 66 years???
Virendra
Apr 12, 2013 02:16pm
You have not got the point yet.Comparing Jinnah to Nelson Mandela is same as comparing Ayotollah Khomeini to Mother Teresa. Use your intellect to examine honestly,and not to justify an aberration.
Pakistani
Apr 12, 2013 02:20pm
Another fact about Jinnah being the true leader is that many efforts to tarnish his image over last 66 years by Pakistanis and OHTERS has never been materialized...............
Harsh Wardhan Singh
Apr 12, 2013 02:24pm
The concept of forming a Nation just on basis of religion....????
Muhammad Rashid
Apr 12, 2013 02:25pm
pakistan has the ability to live with others but other dont have like our one neighbour
MONAYEM CHOWDHURY
Apr 12, 2013 02:52pm
History may be rewritten, but the memories of those who lived in the days of Partition may never be recast. I am one of those. Jinnah calling for the Direct Action Day and Jinnah in his first speech to the Constituent Assembly were markedly different. People who voted for the Muslim League in 1946 in the part now Bangladesh voted for the possible creation of an Islamic State not a Secular State. It was never hinted to the people that Pakistan once born will embrace secularism. Then the debate whether the creation of Pakistan was a bane or a boon to the Muslims of the Indian Sub-Continent as a whole will perhaps linger on for years to come. After all, Pakistan would never have been a reality but for the support of the Indian Muslims who only got sufferings in its wake. MONAYEM CHOWDHURY USA
Sheetal
Apr 12, 2013 03:02pm
Rafia, It is not fair to put the entire blame on the readers for their inappropriate and miguided comments which were based on their understanding of what you presented in your previous article. I believe even several of our intellectuals would have struggled to understand the point you were trying to make by comparing South Africa's Nelson Mandela with Pakistan's Mohammad Ali Jinnah. There is nothing common between the situations of 2 countires, except bitterness between two sides- race in one case and religion in other. Unlike your previous blogs, readers were not able to fully comprehend the real issue you were trying to discuss. There is nothing common Please ignore the rants of my fellow Indian readers and keep writing. My good wishes be always with you.
Nabarun Dey
Apr 12, 2013 03:04pm
As Rafia struggles with her riddles involving a nation, one get the feeling how unviable building of the nation has been. Religion can never be a legitimate reason for formation of a nation state. Pakistan learnt it hard way in a couple of decades. Both India & Pakistan suffer now because of absence of tall leaders. India's health is reasonably better because it does not need to mix religion with politics, which is missing in rest of south Asia. Pakistan's antidote for survival is elimination of radicalism. Pakistan has not taken a single positive step vis-a- vis India post partition to improve relation. Unfortunately Pakistan intends to follow a different path. It is busy developing its missiles,stockpiling its nukes as dete'rent(unlikely to be of any use).Pakistan has a volcano within. There is very little that Rafia or anyone else can do about it.
Amarnath
Apr 12, 2013 03:30pm
John, I want to like your comment a 100 times
John
Apr 12, 2013 03:35pm
Muslims got what they desired - so now leave India and Indians alone. Why do you expect compassion from India and Indians after so much of hostility towards them? Jinnah had the vision to be the head of a nation, which he achieved.
Ram
Apr 12, 2013 03:43pm
Writer is intent on cashing nostalgia of Pakistanis for Jinnah. It is a useless article. That man died some 60+ years ago. Move on. What you want to be and where you want to go should not be slowed by burden of past. Most Indians hate Jinnah. Answer is simple. People had to leave their birth place just because they practice different religion. If Jinnah is alive today, he would be facing ICJ for inciting mass killings based on religious bigotry. The less said about this man, the better for people so that wounds heal over time. Transpose Narendra Modi with Jinnah and Hindus with Musilms. You would see the truth. Only the scales are different.
Siddharth
Apr 12, 2013 04:00pm
Rafia, not all Indians have ill feelings please. Probably messages/responses you got were people who do harbour such feelings and they make more noise (like empty vessels do), but a good number of Indians (I'll even say they're majority) are neutral/favorable towards Pakistan but don't feel the need to vent that out. Here's wishing well to Pakistan. and hoping peace n prosperity in this part of the world!!
A. Mirza
Apr 12, 2013 04:15pm
Please read this article one more time and at least try to understand. Find a book about Jinnah written by European Scholar between 1950 and 1970 and than read Antjie Krog's book "Country of My Skull". If still you can not appriciat this article.....well.. .
Ravi
Apr 12, 2013 04:27pm
Pakistan's economy is in tatters, Terrorism is growing, People are emigrating, pakistan is a failed nation. What about India? You guys can decide.
Naveen Kumar
Apr 12, 2013 04:31pm
Dear Miss Rafia, Without getting into the merits of the case (equating Mr. Jinnah and Nelson Mandela), my apologies if you have been shocked by response from our side. We Indians (rightly or wrongly) are indeed quite prickly when it comes to Mr. Jinnah. You have indeed posed a very crucialquestion -> 'How important are leaders in leading countries through arduous and emotionally painful transitions?' I can't answer this question for Pakistan but I entirely agree with the person who said - if Nehru had been a different kind of man, India would have been a different kind of country. India owes its non-alignment, vibrant democracy, secularism, culture of strategic restraint to Nehru. Perhaps Pakistan would have been a very different kind of country, had Jinnah lived longer. As for Truth and reconciliation commission, I would first like a Joint memorial to the genocide that accompanied Partition.
Vic
Apr 12, 2013 04:36pm
Althouh Jinnah has created a country which is a rare achievement for anyone, he cannot be compared to Nelson Mandela or Gandhi for that matter as they have sacrificed so much for their countries. They have lived decades in jails, ended foreign occupation, understood the needs of the people and tried to unite the people. Jinnah was an honorable man, he was liberal and secular but look at Pakistan today !! It is anything but secular and liberal. There was no need for Pakistan, he was just living in fantasy land.
Rocky
Apr 12, 2013 04:40pm
It's too late for Truth and Reconciliation Commission for Ind-Pak divide. Division of our land based on religion was a folly. But we all have to live with this. So, let us build equity in peace through mutual trade as China and most of the European countries have done rather than impoverish ourselves further by harping on the past.
srinivasa
Apr 12, 2013 04:48pm
Well said my friend
harsh
Apr 12, 2013 04:55pm
You should not have wasted valuable section of such newspaper to show anger on indian audience .This is cyberwar,so many unemplyed people have laptop now who dnt have any work ,
neo
Apr 12, 2013 04:59pm
I havnt found any point justifying comparsion of jinnah n grt mendala. Jinnah cnt be compared with such people,just like some people compare osama with gandhi,afzal guru with bhagat singh ,
Prakash
Apr 12, 2013 05:10pm
The historical fact of partition is clearly reflected in article 62 & 63 of Pakistan's constitution ,where adherance to ideology of Pakistan and two nation theory is demanded from seekers of Public Office .Besides candidates for higher bureaucracy through CSS exam are also demanded the same.So there is no need for Commision of Truth and Reconciliation to go over partition- as things are cristal clear in Pakistan.
SHK
Apr 12, 2013 05:52pm
The main reason the point did not get across is lack of critical thinking in people on both sides. First because of lack of education among people, then British did not stop practicing their ultimate weapon of Divide n rule. Our leaders, for one reason or other, at the time were not capable to instill law abiding citizenship in Pakistanis in general. And a few decades were also lost because of preaching of Moulana Moududi. That left the gate open for the fundamentalist to enter into Politics. HENCE THE RESULTS>
Sid
Apr 12, 2013 05:59pm
Jinnah has been described negatively in books on partition by authors across the world.While there Are statues of Gandhi across the world... Only Pakistanis reared on propaganda like the North Koreans keep harping about Jinnha
khan
Apr 12, 2013 06:02pm
You make no new points supporting the validity of the comparison. Your only point is " the haters don't get it". Which, though true is most cases, doesn't prove you right. The bottom line is Jinnah had no plan.
Avik Ray
Apr 12, 2013 06:04pm
It is true many Indians, irrespective of age and generation, gets upset whenever they hear about pakistan or Jinnah. However, I do not agree with the author abut the reasons behind it. Consistent Pakistani stance against India, whatever the reasons are, be it overt or covert, by military or civilian or non-state actors gradually eroded and have been eroding any sense of goodwill Indians have towards Pakistanis or Pakistan. Indians never suffered from an identity crisis, Pakistanis did. Also, history was never, I repeat never, altered in India. Actually, after the independence Indian government took enough care to present the history in classrooms in a way that does not give anyone or any community a reason to hate others. Growing up in West Bengal (a state that was partitioned) during the fities and sixties I never learned how intolerant Aurangzeb was. Akbar, Dara Shikoh, Siraj-ud-Dowla (Bengal Nawab before the british toppled him) and even Tipu Sultan (another Aurangzeb type) were hailed as heroes of India! Open air dramas in Bengal villages most of the time had stories that included the Mughals and other muslim rulers, showing them in a very positive light. Sounds surprising now but that is the truth.
Zaheer Khan
Apr 12, 2013 06:13pm
Rafia. I can already see a lot of haterd in you for Indians. Whether Indians relish the agony and pain of pakistan or not, it does not matter. Every sensible (real senisbile not the fake one) man/woman can see where pakistan is going. Pakistan can only be cured when Islam will be reduced to individual's private affair. I don't understand why people can't admit that when they discuss all the problems pakistan is facing today. Perhaps they find their lives too precious to lose. Other than that, no remedy can cure pakistan. Jinnah I believe was nothing but a mere puppet of Islamic leadership. A man with no plan, nothing. Had he lived longer, we would see his later pictures with a long beard and nothing else.
ASH78
Apr 12, 2013 06:21pm
I find it fascinating how our 'friends' across the border are obsessed with Pakistan despite pretending not to care. Judging by the volume of comments coming in from Indians, you'd think that Dawn is an Indian newspaper. To our Indian 'well wishers' I have a simple request: please focus on your own problems and leave our problems to us. While India is far ahead of Pakistan at present, it does not mean that it has achieved everything it needs to. It still has lot of catching up to do with emerging powers like China, let alone matching established powers like the US. Gloating over Pakistan's problems might give you guys some satisfaction, but it won't fix any of India's own numerous problems.
truthseeker
Apr 12, 2013 06:22pm
No matter how much you indulge in telling half truth to the pakistani people but outside people know the truth and you can not make a historical wrong a right through your articles, the matter of fact is that Jinnah was an opportunist and his contribution to the freedom struggle of India was very minimal compared to the Gandhi Nehru Azad. the Pakistan could not have been created with out the active efforts of the Britishers they wanted to dominate the subcontinent through dividing India so that Muslim and Hindus can fight for eternity so that nobody can challenge the dominance of Anglo Saxon power. British govt funneled huge amount to fund to the Muslim league since its creation to create a opposition to the powerful congress party. please see the truth objectively without being emotionally overloaded which fogs our judgement.
sach
Apr 12, 2013 06:31pm
reading the article one thing is obvious. India has moved on but Pakistan has not. India and Indians(hindus,muslims,sikhs,christians in all its plurality) are hoping for a better future for them selves. All diverse Indian are united under the dream of a better tomorrow. Pakistan is definitely an emotional topic but one which no one want talk about. Reading Pakistani media it appears India is still a big topic. Its time 90% of Pakistanis move towards a brighter future rather than dwelling on Jinnah, Gandhi/Partition etc like the 10% have. India is no great nation but at least the desire is string in the population to be one. Hope Pakistan come to the same point by looking at the future and not the past.
Humanize
Apr 12, 2013 06:51pm
Israel?North Ireland?Tamil Eelam? Basque Republic? Balkans...etc. etc etc.
Humanize
Apr 12, 2013 06:54pm
From Hindustand times: India is the second worst performing nation in south Asia, after Afghanistan, in terms of gender equality, the UNDP Human Development Report 2013 revealed. Countries like Pakistan, Nepal and Bangladesh, which are poorer than India and have lower Human Development Index (HDI), are better placed in terms of gender equality.
Just Curious (USA)
Apr 12, 2013 07:01pm
Why Pakistan was created, what were Jinnah's intentions and vision for his creation's future is a question that several of Dawn's own bloggers and columnists have been asking. In fact it has been quite a favorite topic of conversation, of late. If your own people cannot come to terms with the creation of their country, can you blame others?
Vipul
Apr 12, 2013 07:04pm
Hi Rafia, As a Indian, I would agree with your points .. Animosity does exists on both sides of the border, Much bad blood has flown between both and it frustrates to see fellow Indian's relishing your country's misfortune (The dead boy Kasab -- is often cited). If i can, let me assure you, there are far more saner voices in INDIA, who would wish for this distrust to melt away, for our countries to exchange trade -- not bullets. Regards.
Gotit Singh
Apr 12, 2013 07:06pm
the conclusion is excellent ....why should this hatred continue. I have been lucky to meet few Pakistanis in PIFPD meting and felt almost as if I know them from a long time. My perception for Pakistan changed ever since.Now, I am always interested to see what progress is being made across the border and how both countries are getting closer day by day. I guess time is not far away when there will be South Asian union like European union. There shall be no Visa problem and there shall be connectivity all the way. I guess India is already on its path towards this with other Saarc countries,with Pakistan it may take some time though. But when It will come,it will be phenomenal.
Pavan Samudrala
Apr 12, 2013 07:15pm
I honestly disagree with the author. Leader's are as important as the idea's they are fighting for. A great leader cannot reach the destination if he is fighting for a wrong cause. To support that, I would even say that the leaders in Pakistan enjoyed stronger and greater public support than leaders in India. It is the diversity in India that it could not produce a strong leader who can take the entire country on his/her shoulders and it is the confused ideology of Pakistan that even stronger leaders could not take it to the goal. The overall development (or lack of it) that we see in India is probably due to the strength of its ideals and lack of a strong leader. India not coming out of Gandhi's even after 65 years of Independence justifies the fact that getting a leader from grass root levels in diverse country (like in India) is difficult and leader has become more like a person who has greater charisma. And one thing to point out, if you think a majority of folks commented on your article in a certain way, it is most likely that it is conveying that message. You can label a healthy majority as fallacious but definitely cannot ignore them. After all, we live in a majority rules based system called democracy.
pankajdehlavi
Apr 12, 2013 07:23pm
Best comment ever read about Pakistan
Does not matter
Apr 12, 2013 07:48pm
If i may take the liberty of calling you Miss., then Miss Zakaria, although your concern is still valid on loosing the leader in the early times of creation of Pakistan, your comparison of Jinnah to Mandela was totally out of place. A better comparison would have been Jinnah and Nehru but i understand your problem in that. How could you compare Qaed-e-Azam to a Hindu leader of arch rival India.
Salman Cheema
Apr 12, 2013 07:48pm
It was in the month of August 1947, about 1000 plus families of Jat Sikh of Cheema clan from villages around Lyallpur along with Hindus who seeks protection among the Sikh were heading towards East Punjab in a karfala when the raid happened. It was a bloody slaughter. The Sikhs fought bravely and the Hindus ran. The survivors moved on for safety. Among the dead and wounded was an old lady, her grandchildrens were lying dead next to her. Her arms and legs were hacked off and she was moaning in pair and cursing, Gandhi, Jinnah, Nehru, kutayo. My father was 12 yrs old and he was a witness to her cries. They were our blood, some remained Hindus, some became Muslims while others became Sikhs. But we had the same ancestors and we were of the same clan Cheema, yet why we have to hate each other in the name of religion. May Allah forgive us.
Optimistic
Apr 12, 2013 08:47pm
There is nothing we can do about the past. If this and if that is not going to help up us shape the future. We need to find what is common between the two and build on it. I wish we had some futuristic thinking leaders who could help us shape our thinking and lead in co-operating with each other rather than keep fighting
Nawab Malik
Apr 12, 2013 09:04pm
including yourself
SubhSubhBol
Apr 12, 2013 09:54pm
The real question is Had democracy prevailed throughout in Pakistan post independence which is probably linked to the question Rafia is asking (Had Jinnah lived on) ?Jinnah definitely wouldnt have wanted a military state.
Deb
Apr 12, 2013 09:55pm
So true
SubhSubhBol
Apr 12, 2013 09:58pm
yet the other do have the ability to live with all other except one neighbour....
guest
Apr 12, 2013 10:02pm
Yes he did not violate Britisher's Law....... Leadership or Subservience ?
SUNIL
Apr 13, 2013 12:16am
Yes it is true whatever you have said, If possible most Indians would like to forget Pakistan, But unfortunately Pakistan is the neighbour with lots of problems
Ram
Apr 13, 2013 01:07am
Your examples are spot on. Frankly, I didn't expect to see this much sanity and sense of balance in the comments board.
Ram
Apr 13, 2013 01:09am
Judging by the number of likes and dislikes your comments got, I am afraid that sarcasm flies way over the head of most readers!
SKChadha
Apr 13, 2013 01:36am
Rafia: ‘The Muslim minority can’t live with Hindu majority’ except this perception, will you give me any reason for partition of this land? Here exactly is the difference in Mandela and Jinnah? Now tell me after 65 years of our partition..... Do you still hold the same view looking into India, Bangladesh and Pakistan? I hope this will make you to understand the responses from Indians.... I repeat again INDIANS and not Hindus.... ?
sham
Apr 13, 2013 02:09am
As a fellow Indian, I disagree with you completely. Nehru was a dynastic ruler, who brought an ineffectual, socialist governance that has led to an overreach by a corrupt officialdom that has hobbled India and worse - a dynasty that perpetuates bad policies in all spheres. India leads today because of its people, not because of its dynastic rulers.
Anil
Apr 13, 2013 02:43am
What you say is sad but so true ! It appears , in hindsight, that Mr Jinnah ended up harming the very people he wished to help. In a united India Muslims would have had a far greater voice,political and economic influence than they currently have in any of the 3 truncated parts. It is a tragedy that the most talented and cultured people of this great sub-continent have most foolishly wasted 66 years,so far, in acrimony,mutual hatred and conflict,. As to what Mr Jinnah would have done differently,had he not died so early, is purely a speculative subject. Certainly he was the only one who might have had a practical plan to convert his vision of Pakistan into reality.Certainly, leadership plays a most crucial role in shaping and guiding any institution in its early formative period Leaders who came after Mr Jinnah had no clue .They seem to have been non-inclusive, self-serving pigmies in comparision
shiva
Apr 13, 2013 02:46am
communal? sir please tell me what is the percentage of minorities now vis a vis at the time of partition in pakistan. compare the same with india at present.you will get the clear picture
Thommu
Apr 13, 2013 02:58am
In hind sight the creation of Pakistan has become a good thing for India. You have a country for Muslims, and we have a secular democracy, even if not that perfect. We wish you well.
Ayub
Apr 13, 2013 03:10am
The bad luck of Pakistan is that its core policies are dictated by outsiders. Majority of people are illiterate and they don't understand how to change their destiny. They are still in the worst form of slavery, and there is no national leader to rescue them and lead them on the right path of progress and development so that to achieve a honorable place in the comity of nations.
Humaira
Apr 13, 2013 03:18am
I think rafia is misreading the sentiments of her audience. The comparison between Jinnah and Mandela is just absurd. They have nothing in common. Jinnah was at best a savvy politician who used religion to achieve power with distarous consequences. Of course I dont condone the role of. Nehru and Patel in encouraging the madness. Mandela was a genuine freedom fighter and a self confessed Gandhian. Rather than placing blame on our friends across the border let us do a simple experiment. Since you live in the West just ask someone, anyone, not a desi, what they think of jinnah and Mandela. You will get the same responses that you have heard here. That is, in the unlikely enent that they have even heard of Jinnah.
sunil
Apr 13, 2013 03:30am
Meaningless article, Rafia. Other than rhetorical "Indians love to vilify Jinnah" you have not come with any cogent argument how Jinnah is like Mandela. Not in this article either.
skumar
Apr 13, 2013 03:40am
Most of Indians have moved ahead of partition and would have been neutral about pakistan. But the feelings that you see is reaction to pakistani establishment supporting terrorism first in punjab & then kashmir for last 30-years.
Ramesh
Apr 13, 2013 03:52am
Well said Hemant.
Ramesh
Apr 13, 2013 03:53am
I hope you know what you want to indicate.
raje
Apr 13, 2013 04:27am
What ever comment our fellow indians have given are on the basis of reciprocation of some Bad even happened in India due to terrorism. Still majority of the Indian feel that terrorised is imported from the neighbour. National agenda based on religion never wins, it applies to some of the Indian political parties too. Yes May be if Jinah was there both our countries would have not fought a war (may be).
Daniel
Apr 13, 2013 04:42am
Fantastic reply!!!
Pakistani
Apr 13, 2013 05:28am
Can you please tell me how many Independence movement are currently running in India. As per details available on Internet it is more than 35 ....... Most popular of it is Maoist of Nagaland which India. The prosperity of India only started nearly 15 years ago. Can you please describe what was it before that period?
R
Apr 13, 2013 06:23am
amazing article!!!!
pakistani
Apr 13, 2013 06:57am
No they are nor materialize and we 'll always love and respect father of the nation.Though they are trying through media but will fail badly at the end.
Lalat
Apr 13, 2013 06:59am
Dear Mr. Zak, I was in South Africa recently. Whichever city I visited, there is a M.K. Gandhi square with a statue of Gandhi. Even the waiting room in the railway station at Petermaritzburg, where Gandhi was thrown out of the carriage on his way to Pretoria has been turned into a museum. If Nelson Mandela really revered Jinnah so much as you have mentioned, how come I did not come across one square named after him?
pakistani
Apr 13, 2013 07:01am
I think its a dawn policy to bring controversial topics specially about our great founding leader and ideology of Pakistan and about Partition issues just to bring Indian readers and their well wishing towards dawn it's sad our majority of media is behaving to serve self interest.
amit
Apr 13, 2013 07:04am
We dont hate China we respect them and we consider them as our competitor. So there is healthy competition. They do not spread terrorism unlike you.
amit
Apr 13, 2013 07:07am
As your Prime minister Benazir Bhutto once said you will find Indian in every Pakistani and Pakistani in every Indian. So that way do not get surprise.
aviratam
Apr 13, 2013 07:08am
Madam, Nelson Mandela always thought about bringing reconciliation of communities, no matter how apart they seemed. Jinnah was the opposite. Nelson Mandela, in spite of being incarcerated by the apartheid regime for 27 years, sought to bring about change through a non-violent revolution. Jinnah ordered Direct Action resulting in the death of thousands. Nelson Mandela never hankered after a political position. Jinnah was the opposite, starting with wanting to be Governor General. The view that Mandela and Jinnah cannot be equated, I'm certain, is not just an Indian view. If you were to take an international poll, the results will show the difference even more dramatically! .
T. Ramakrishnan
Apr 13, 2013 07:14am
Institutions are more important than Individuals, however great. Gandhi died earlier than Jinnah and his myriad successors (Nehru, Rajagopalachari, Patel, etc.) had strong differences among themselves and with Gandhi. Yet the system muddled through more satisfactorily than Pakistan under Jinnah's successors. The reasons: institutionalization of secularism, democracy, federalism and a commitment to end feudalism and industrialize the country. India's record is far from perfect. But I feel Pakistan never tried or even considered them. Now that Pakistan seems to be on the threshold of a democratic transfer of power, I hope she sets her eyes on those goals.
Pakistani
Apr 13, 2013 07:43am
What about India?! India is just a big hoax and a problem maker of this region. In reality, India faces territorial issues with 6 of its neighbors because Indians just can not stop poking their noses in other countries affairs. Indians need to first learn and respect women then try to feed the millions of people living in abject poverty etc etc etc. To make things easier why dont you just try to do the basic and that is 'stop copying Hollywood films'.
Kite
Apr 13, 2013 07:44am
We are not focusing on you....I want to say one thing to you that say these words to your people and politicians who always interfere in Indian policies( Shahrukh Khan security).
Anonymous
Apr 13, 2013 07:48am
Yes you are right, that is why he disowned his daughter because she choose to marry a Parsi and not a Muslim.....Surely, he was secularist
Rashid Sultan
Apr 13, 2013 08:25am
Jinnah had a relatively long life and a good innings. I simply fail to understand what more the author thinks he could have done for the sub continent of former India and finally for Pakistan. Had he lived on for another 66 years he might have rued the day he left Bombay for Karachi. And the point of your article is?
Ravi Ingale from University of Pune.
Apr 13, 2013 08:43am
But in Nagaland the literacy rate is more than 90%, lower populated and better economical state as compare to Bihar like state while Maoist targeted only Policemen not ordinary citizens. 15 year ago also India was prosperous but not as it is today. I don't want to say anything about our Humsaya Country it is all in front of you, you just read e-Down News paper regularly as I read it everyday.
Sangram
Apr 13, 2013 09:31am
Nothing Personal. We cannot expect any writer in such reputed newspaper to be judgemental to own criticism and to justify irrelevant points mentioned previously,wonder why so much space is wasted here? "Commissions of Truth and Reconciliation are required " : Imagine !!!! the paperwork and time..? Appreciate what exists today and how it can be made better tomorrow... All the best Rafia for next blog. Regards
Carol
Apr 13, 2013 09:32am
I don't think that "Indians and Pakistanis nourished as they both are on hefty spoonfuls of hatred". At least Indians aren't. They really don't care all that much about Pakistan.
Nony
Apr 13, 2013 09:41am
beautiful
KKRoberts
Apr 13, 2013 09:50am
"The prosperity of India only started nearly 15 years ago. Can you please describe what was it before that period?" Good question.It was 2% population growth and 3% industrial growth.Net effect 1% growth.
Guha
Apr 13, 2013 09:53am
Didn't Mr Jinnah really want military rule? His lecture in Army club in May 1948 gives a different picture. "Don't take orders from anyone not even from your minister unless it is sanctioned by the chief of the executive ( i. e. himself). After his death the executive chief became weak figure and the army continued to defy it's minister's orders. Pakistan saw the result
Robert
Apr 13, 2013 10:16am
Wisdom is lessons learnt from history. "If Jinnah would be living today" is completely irrelevant because he is not. We need writers, philosophers, and thinkers who can articulate and revolutionize the theme of "where do we go from here". Projections and ideas for the future are needs of the hour.
sundar
Apr 13, 2013 11:51am
With all these separatists movement India is progressing. According to you, atleast India started to progress 15 years ago, instead of brooding over the past. You guys seems to be struck in a time capsule 1400 years old.
xhizer
Apr 13, 2013 12:35pm
where do you get your information?. Mandel's hero was Gandhi!
Indicus
Apr 13, 2013 12:48pm
Dear Mr. Malik, may I request you to enlighten me as to: 1. If Jinnah was secular, why did he create a nation based on religion ? 2. What are the rights to be protected of Muslim minority apart from rights of any common Indian citizen ?
Feroz
Apr 13, 2013 12:49pm
Pakistani, you are misinformed about India. There is no Indpendence movement running anywhere, except for the turmoil in Kashmir which you know has external dimensions. Maoists are not fighting for Independence, they are fighting for control over resources in favour of locals/tribals of the area. Also India is not a prosperous country but a poor one with pockets of Wealth and affluence. What differentiates the two countries is that every square kilometre of area is under the control of the Indian State enabling the Government to be the sole arbiter for rule of Law under all its territory.
imtiaz faruqui
Apr 13, 2013 12:51pm
Jinnah had a plan of Unity, Faith and Disciplene, which he knew the people of Pakistan were and still are anaware of.
Khan Wali
Apr 13, 2013 01:30pm
India and competitor of China! 'KAWWA CHALA HANS KI CHAAL'
jn
Apr 13, 2013 02:08pm
Jinnah was no moses, mandela or anything of that sort. He was just an argumentative lawyer. In the end he was Good for India and Hindus. He deserves our respect and love
rahul pathak
Apr 13, 2013 02:26pm
dear writer, (a) criticism from readers is part of your job, accept that...(b) there is virtually no single historic/factual/rational point on which you can justify comparison between Jinnah and mandela ...unless you believe in propaganda stuff....
Sinn Sal
Apr 13, 2013 03:02pm
Pointless article, " what if " is imaginary " where from here" should be the them in Pakistan in general. All the best Pakistan. Get well soon.
BK
Apr 13, 2013 03:08pm
Ram, please go and read Jaswant Singh's book on Jinnah to get an unbiased view on Jinnah. I am not surprised to hear that an average Indian hates Jinnah simply because I know that the history lessons taught both in Pak and India are not unbiased. Would really recommend you to read that book.
NotReallyNeeded
Apr 13, 2013 05:03pm
To be honest, an average Indian does not really care even about the affairs of Pakistan. If they don't care about Pakistan's success, they don't relish Pakistan's problems too. They have far more important things to bother themselves with, like career, family etc. Pakistan needs to move on beyond partition... we have... And while I'm no big fan of Indian media itself, I'm surprised to see an author attack a certain audience for the first time like this.
Rao
Apr 13, 2013 05:04pm
Hi Basharat, You are spot on....on this issue. If you have written the article instead of Rafia, you wouldn't have seen so many negative comments. Jinnah, who is responsible for the misery of millions of Hindus & Muslims of the sub-continent is revered as Qiad-e-Azam in Pakistan, but Narendra Modi who is responsible for the misery of few thousand Muslims in one city of Gujarat is considered a worst villian. Look at the contrast....this is the reality in the sub-continent.....difference in perception. I am not defending Narendra Modi, but I can never ever accept Jinnah as a great personality, who can ever be compared with greats like Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King etc.
Rao
Apr 13, 2013 05:31pm
Obviusly.....that includes you also
Rao
Apr 13, 2013 05:45pm
Good one Humaira...quiet frank
SR
Apr 13, 2013 05:46pm
My dude, ask a south african what he thinks about nelson mandela and you wouldnt always particularly get a rosy view of him. Its all good and dandy when you quote 27 years of incarcerated but truth is Jinnah made it possible through a process, holding on to his principals, unlike mandela who gathers sympathy--no offence to mandela and all the great things he has done. So what if he was incarcerated, nature has its way of expressing itself, and it just happened to be mandela, if not him anyone else with a different name with same experience would have done the same think. However, Jinnah with all the money and influence, why would he have bothered to think about a nation who was facing problems. He might have easily sipped on the best wine and smoked a cuban, yet he went through the pain to bring about a country as great as Pakistan, however terrible it may look, Pakistan remains a grown up of a birth yet a gem that just needs good leadership.
Rao
Apr 13, 2013 06:24pm
India is progressing... ...Pakistan is digressing Railways introducing new trains....... closing down existing trains Metros in all metro cities.... no plans for them even in capital city Minroties % increasing % decreasing with all bombing & killing Journalists live to tell their tales..... disappear if anything written against system Want any more comparisons
The Hindu
Apr 13, 2013 07:01pm
Mr ASH78,Indian population is more than 6 times the pak population and the number of internet user is more than 10 times i.e. why we indian are looking more here. And indian are not Gloating over pakistan it is pak which is always gloating on indian,looked up your media filled up with indian news.You should visit some Indian news sites you barely found any Pakistan news.
The Hindu
Apr 13, 2013 07:07pm
Brother please read about the stories of Indian space agency ISRO, Indian IT Revolution etc on internet.
Nadeem Yasin
Apr 13, 2013 07:08pm
Was he able to get the Pakistan or not? It doesn't matter who made the law, he follow all the laws what were in practice at that time. Jinnah was the biggest of advocate of a United India and Hindu Muslim unity, what forced him to join All India Muslim League, i leave it on you to skim through the history.
Nadeem Yasin
Apr 13, 2013 07:15pm
Is Leadership all about violance? No, my friend.
Naveen Kumar
Apr 13, 2013 07:32pm
FYI Nehru was succeeded by Lal Bahadur Shastri and not Indira Gandhi. Read History in the international context and you'll understand why he took the decisions as he did. Colonialism was based on Capitalism and that's why almost all newly independent countries chose a Socialist path to start with. There was nothing unique about India in that sense. Moreover, Socialism did usher in an era of Land reforms in India that to an extent destroyed the feudal aristocracy and Princedom in Indian villages. We are still reaping the fruits of Green and White revolution and nationalisation of Banks. Indian society to this day is highly communal, casteist, ethnocentric (son of soils) and racist, so let's not get into what Indians would have done without good leaders.
anil
Apr 13, 2013 07:34pm
@Rafia Zakaria I don't want to make any more comment after this piles of comments by readers . After 70 odd years of partition , your article on these issues as well as by others , your wariness and your eagerness for justification tells the whole story . But we stand still with one answer and at one position. Don't feed your countrymen untruth or half-baked truth , because someone has said "children fed with untruth breed violence" . Regards
BJK
Apr 13, 2013 07:37pm
I don't wish to get into the type of exchange that some other Indians did. However, in my personal opinion, your piece comparing Jinnah with Mandela was a major blunder (in addition to being wildly off-the-mark.). It certainly made me reevaluate how I used to view your writing. I wish you well, but I have substantially scaled back my expectations of most Pakistani-origin works of penmanship.
Rohit
Apr 13, 2013 08:07pm
Pakistan still had an important figure besides Jinnah. The man responsible for bringing Jinnah back to mainstream politics- Liaqat Ali Khan. But he was assassinated. Wonder if a similar fate was in store for Jinnah had he survived his illness. BTW, congratulations to Pakistan. For the first time in more than 65 years has a political party completed its term. May democracy survive another 5 years before the army says "enough of tom foolery guys...time for the big boys to play".
James Lockart
Apr 13, 2013 10:06pm
This effort by Rafia Zakaria is rather surprising. Jinnah is Jinnah and can never be Mandela or Gandhi. Similarly Pakistan is Pakistan and can never be India or South Africa. It must be noted that South Africa willingly gave up its nuclear program despite being a successful country and Pakistan clinches to its nukes even after being declared as a failed state by the most reputable of the world's organizations. Jinnah is largely unknown to the world. He never walked into crowds to stop riots like Gandhi did or never forgave someone like Franco Botha like Mandela did. He does not deserve to be either well known or respected. I'm sure if he was this great person that Rafia wants him to be now that he's dead then people outside of India would have at least heard of him.
Shruti
Apr 13, 2013 10:08pm
You started well but midway somewhere you lost me. I agree that some Indians act vindictive and speak nastily. So do some Pakistanis. You don't have to get too apologetic or put down India to make up for their vindictiveness. For instance political scams and corruption exist in Pakistan too a lot. And nobody is denying their tv music and sports accomplishments but I don't agree we were worse off. In fact I don't even see a need to compete. And it's okay to discuss things,even if it's harsh sometimes.
James Lockart
Apr 13, 2013 10:13pm
Correction: It is 'P. W. Botha' instead of 'Franco Botha'.
Shruti
Apr 13, 2013 10:24pm
We don't hate China. Or in fact even Pakistan. My textbooks never bitched about Pakistan or Islam. Mr. Khan you are living in a denial. Also btw we respect china. We see them as economic competitors but also we admire them for their progress. There are some territorial disputes but unlike Kashmir these have taken a back seat in the interest of mutual economic gains. As for Pakistan, we have nothing against you. The only thing that comes in the way is terrorism acts which are supported institutionally. In fact my history books never criticized Pakistan or Jinnah.
Shruti
Apr 13, 2013 10:29pm
Makes good sense
Jaggy
Apr 13, 2013 10:32pm
the Author is perhaps unaware, that till we confront the real cause of Partition, we will be forever trying to find justifications, as to what ails Pakistan today. The bitter truth is, that the very foundations on which Pakistan was created, was faulty. to continue to build on a faulty foundation ( two nation theory) , has lead to more fault lines in Pakistan. Religion has gone extreme, with the state directly creating more fault lines, by using Jihad, declaring other sects Kuffer, and maintaining the Blasphemy laws. i in no way, am saying, that India & Pakistan should reunite - all i am saying is Good riddence to the Bad lot, may you reap more of what you sowed (hatred, against, fellow human beings). yes, Indians, feel a sense of redemption, for in your greed to create a new country, you created a culture of intolerance & hate. Jinnah was just a good(crafty?) lawyer, who after winning his case, did not know anything else, regarding how to run a state, nor did he trust anyone. The most ironic thing is that he was not even a "pure" muslim, he ate ham and drank, and worse he was not even a Sunni (or shia) infact, if Jinnah was alive, he would have been shunned & denounced by the new thekedars of Islam
Seema
Apr 13, 2013 10:44pm
Rafia, why are you surprised at the reaction of the indians? Seems par for the course. Hatred, bigotry, and obsession is their duty. No need to take them seriously and their rhetoric.
Avik Ray
Apr 13, 2013 10:58pm
Your letter is better than any article. Thanks!
Avik Ray
Apr 13, 2013 11:07pm
I read Dawn and make comments here because I find the newspaper and Pakistanis who comments here are quite sensible. That's all. Do not have any ill intention.
Humanize
Apr 13, 2013 11:56pm
Feroz "What differentiates the two countries is that every square kilometre of area is under the control of the Indian State enabling the Government to be the sole arbiter for rule of Law under all its territory." From Hindstand times april 8,2013 "RAIPUR: The Indian Air Force (IAF), which faced flak after its personnel abandoned an injured policeman in a chopper crippled in Naxalite firing, has now begun flying double sorties to many areas and more commandos for its air support missions in anti-naxalism operations to prevent such incidents."
truthseeker
Apr 14, 2013 04:56am
Please watch the movie Gandhi (1982) Directed by Richard Attenborough and see how Jinnah is being portrayed then you will get an idea of evaluation of Jinnah by neutral observers.
Khan
Apr 14, 2013 05:25am
Pakistan is the current state is due to this clan mentality when you start thinking as a Pakistani it will become a better place
hahrsh
Apr 14, 2013 05:43am
yes it include me
Bharath kumar
Apr 14, 2013 05:44am
Inferior followup to the substandard last post. Jinnah created a country almost single handed with very little help; that is his greatness. (Author)You have to accept that Mandela and Jinnah can't be compared. Both are very different. I am not saying one is greater than the other rather they are great in their own right. “Few individuals significantly alter the course of history. Fewer still modify the map of the world. Hardly anyone can be credited with creating a nation-state. Mohammad Ali Jinnah did all three.” ? Stanley Wolpert, Jinnah Of Pakistan. Never compare Jinnah with any other great personality. His actions and achievements are unique.
Khan
Apr 14, 2013 05:46am
First sane Indian in the whole forum, looks like he is living outside India since childhood hence different from communal Indians
Faisal
Apr 14, 2013 05:50am
I agree with u . They do not care about Pakistan AT ALL ... thats why they comment in such a Romantic way. What are these comments Reflecting.....Love !!!
Vikky
Apr 14, 2013 08:29am
Well Jinnah wanted Pakistan he got and we are happy in India to be not where Pakistan is.countries like Israel, pak... Forever grapple with existential reasons for they are not inclusive but make a divisions a mortar for building countries and we all know it makes for poor mortar.Jinnah or not the way Hindus or Muslims have been at each others throat some sort of division would have happened in 50's 60's more violent and at greater human loss.India got a clean break in definable and consolidated block of a country and we must thank the intelligent lawyers who were worked on it.the fact that a country based on narrow interests like Pakistan is a mistake more so for Muslims themselves would have never been proven without an actual event happening...in the end there will be more divisions of pak which will be bad for India too as it will fan more regionalism in India too....if Muslims or Hindus want better future they need to identify with their civiklisatinal identity in stronger form than religion....china does that. A very bleak future is ahead of both pak and India...more so in pak than in India though...religion will not be the driver here but the economic conflicts in society will be the driver and for that we are in the same boat
ss
Apr 14, 2013 09:30am
Was expecting Rafia’s reply to some solid arguments of readers, however she choose to remain silent… some of the key issues are 1. Jinnah’s death was not untimely, he knew he did not have much time as he was dying from TB. Gandhi passed away before Jinnah, why there was no such vacuum in India, even if Nehru could not survive for long Congress had leaders like Patel, Azad etc. Why such leadership did not exist in Muslim League. 2 Why entire constituent assembly of Pakistan did not share secular modern vision of Jinnah? Why Objective Resolution was passed shortly after death of Jinnah with an overwhelming majority of House? Wasnt Jinnah himself responsible for this disconnect? 3 Why Jinnah could not see an inherent contradiction in his Two Nation Theory. If Muslims and Hindu were two nations which could not live together in one nation then how did he expect minorities of Pakistan to survive with Muslim majority? 4 Why Jinnah dismissed a democratically elected govt. of NWFP, rather than testing its majority on the floor of the house. 5 As Governor General, why he nominated PM on behalf of parliamentary committee of ML, nominated cabinet for the PM and also chose to sit in the cabinet meetings. By any standard it was not democratic 6 and the most important why did he declare to the majority of Pakistan that their language was not worthy of being national language (Urdu only speach) Rafia, I will appreciate your reply on above
XPRESS
Apr 14, 2013 10:10am
“If Jinnah had lived” Actually is an Imaginary which has no relavance at All. It is the same for all of us to think as "if Hitlor had Lived or Gandhi Ji Had lived" !! We can make some good Bollywood films on these topics but can't change the Past. Fate and Destiny of a country is decided by its own people. Leaders Come & Go !! India too had smilar fate of it's "Father of Nation" but people Prevailed !!
AHA
Apr 14, 2013 11:17am
Excellent post.
abhi
Apr 14, 2013 11:41am
"into considerations directed not at the rightness or wrongness of the historical fact of Partition, but at what exists today and how it can be made better tomorrow." This is good thinking but in order to achieve this you have to stop sticking to ideology of Pakistan and basic premise of two nation theory. Some times it is better to accept mistakes and move on.