03 September, 2014 / Ziqa'ad 7, 1435

Our Indian agenda

Published May 22, 2012 12:15am

MY last column (May 8) in this paper talked about the vicious cycle of untoward events and entrenched negotiating postures blocking progress in the direction of genuine rapprochement between India and Pakistan.

I felt that by contextualising negotiating habits I would show history as their true and transient provenance; that, history need not be deterministic and that statesmen have often changed its course with visionary paradigm shifts.

Admittedly, opinions differ on both sides of the divide if the time for subcontinental reconciliation has come. Nevertheless, some positive trends are clearly discernible. Pakistan has a vociferous minority that clings to the post-1947 iron curtain with the same arguments as employed during the initial stages of nation-formation and state-building.

On the other hand, it is certain that Musharraf’s Kargil incursion was the last of its kind; the army has travelled far in grasping regional and global strategic realities and more importantly, the non-military dynamics of the social and economic sectors.

In India, unfortunately, the doctrine of a limited war under a nuclear overhang has not been finally abandoned. Even there, the sheer futility of huge military confrontations in 1986 (Operation Brasstacks), 1990 (Kashmir uprising) and 2001-2002 (terrorist attack on Indian parliament) is convincing decision-makers that the prevailing strategic stalemate cannot be easily overturned. It is also true that some Indian hawks, in an exact replica of the Cold War, reduce it to a numbers game and wait for a tipping point when India would militarily prevail.

Economic factors too are beginning to underline the uses of a cooperative relationship. Eminent experts have written in this newspaper to urge Islamabad to take the most-favoured nation status (MFN) for India to its logical conclusion, albeit with negotiations on Indian non-tariff barriers, visa restrictions and other issues. For India too, trade with Pakistan and perhaps later through Pakistan with Afghanistan and Central Asia, seems significant. The self-intoxicating phase of shining India has faded a little and though India still posts a healthy GDP growth rate, the economy is slowing down; the GDP growth actually fell from 9.83 per cent in Q2 2009 to 4.25 per cent in Q4 2011. India is also vulnerable to the recurring crises in the western system.

The arrogant argument that India does not need to transact business with Pakistan already looks flat. There is a fair chance of the current direct India-Pakistan trade of $2.7bn rising to $6bn in the next few years though targets beyond that would require bigger political and economic decisions. So even if increasing trade is not exactly a game-changer, it should help create a more conducive environment.

There has been talk in both the countries of ‘doables’, the low-hanging fruit, in particular Siachen and Sir Creek. On Siachen, the forthcoming meeting in June may turn out to be as unproductive as the one last June because of the Indian army’s veto on disengagement. Its insistence on the ‘authentication’ of the Actual Ground Position Line or AGPL — the Saltoro ridge — is seen in Pakistan to be integrally linked to high-cost projects portending indefinite physical occupation. Pakistani planners would not overlook the possibility that India would use blood, treasure and technology to jeopardise Pakistan’s land link with China.

Pakistan will not undertake unilateral disengagement because of several apprehensions: India wants to dominate Pakistan’s northern areas and Shaksgam valley; Siachen is a triangular ‘strategic wedge’ between Pakistan and China, with the Karakoram pass being the primary focus; Indian ambitions to use Nubra valley and Siachen glacier’s Saser La pass for access to Central Asia; and finally, the belief that India will resume its northwest march the moment Pakistan lowers its guard.

The fact that Pakistanis cannot go up and take the Saltoro ridge and that the Indians cannot come down to implement the imputed agenda should enable the political leadership to take the initiative to implement the once agreed disengagement. For potential future betrayals, there will be credible safeguards and iron-clad guarantees.

The Indian contention that Sir Creek could not be settled on the basis of 1914 maps led to a fresh state-of-the-art joint survey; its resolution is just a flourish of the pen away. Recently, Michael Krepon, a co-founder of Stimson Centre, hinted that “the continuing dispute over Sir Creek revolves around the extension of the land border seaward”. This is surprising as both India and Pakistan are under the pressure of international law to determine soon the reference point on the land for their maritime boundary and economic zones.

Pakistan should energise the discussion on mutual strategic restraint. Given the Indian preoccupation with China, an across-the-board regime is impossible but considerable mutual assurance is achievable. India is now globally recognised as amongst the top military spenders. The more menacing the Indian posture towards Pakistan, the greater would be Pakistan’s counter-action to fortify its ‘minimum deterrence’; it has already waded into the domain of ‘tactical nuclear weapons’. There should be no let-up in efforts to make Indian leaders aware of the perils of the growing militarisation of Indian policy towards Pakistan just when the Pakistan Army was signalling support for a détente.

Notwithstanding inflexible negotiating habits, progress in many areas is possible as neither side now insists on any core issue: Kashmir from Pakistan, and Mumbai and overland transit to Afghanistan from India, being a pre-condition for it. A settlement of Jammu and Kashmir, however, remains indispensable to the quest for permanent peace. It may take time for ideas for a solution acceptable to India, Pakistan and the people of Kashmir to gain traction. Kashmir remains the worst example of India treating ambition as entitlement.

Nevertheless, the resumed dialogue should be nudged towards renunciation of violence by all concerned, progressive demilitarisation, retrenchment of laws incompatible with freedom and dignity, strengthening of Kashmiri state institutions and devolution of power to them from the centre, and freedom of trade — intra-Kashmir and with India and Pakistan. Progress in each and every sub-theme will make it easier to proceed to the grand finale some day.

The write is a former foreign secretary.


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Comments (203) (Closed)


AHA
May 22, 2012 11:16am
@Majid – I think instead of just trying to compare ourselves with a ‘huge and poor’ India, we should focus on resolving our own problems. Otherwise, in 10 years, we will have an even wider gap. BTW, all our geographic location has ever done for us is to turn us into a ‘hired hand’ for the USA. Now if you, and so many of my fellow countrymen, want to feel proud about this, then it is your choice. I would rather follow the path of progress through education and intellectual development.
Abhishek
May 22, 2012 08:23am
frustrated and one sided article. If he was a foreign secretary i can imagine why relations between two sides were not normal
Srini
May 22, 2012 03:15am
Pakistan is welcome to militarize as much as it wants. Please go ahead and buy as many shiny toys as you can afford to buy, or borrow to buy. If you still think India will suck its thumb and treat you as a trustworthy opponent, then you can continue to dream on. The first thing that Indian public expects is an acceptance of all the atrocity committed by PA within India and Bangladesh (1971). Secondly, PA has completely shutdown its terror apparatus and arrest all the "strategic assets" including Hafiz, Kahsmiri, Dawood and a whole lot of others. Next, PA has to completely stop acting on all its day dreams including Strategic depth, Donating India's land, etc. When it happens, there is hopefor some peace. Until then, please go and buy all the weapons you want. We are happy to do what we want at our end to take care of our security and progress.
VASUDEV
May 22, 2012 03:18am
Keep dreaming about Kashmir!! The only thing that binds you and your Kashmiri brethren is religion! Why no journalist has guts to say, who cares if Kashmiris are under the control of India are Pakistan or themselves as long as they have freedom do live a dignified life! They can buy house, get jobs, pray as many times, can even go to other parts of India to study and do business? Indians don't thane that privilege! Aren't they given everything that other indian citizens are given? Yes, there is million soldiers stationed there..but how long they would stay? If Pakistan minds its own business, then Indian soldiers go to their barracks! The entire nation of Pakistan has been indoctrinated with an idea that Kashmir should have been part of Pakistan, just because they are muslims!! It that it? Is that the only reason your heart beats for them? Why is that you do not care for Ughuirs? They are also muslim! Well, you see the chinese will not like it!
BRR
May 22, 2012 03:36am
The writer had just regurgitated old opinions, adding nothing new, providing no additional insights. This much is clear, his generation never sought peace, and so he has nothing important to offer - just old ideas recycled. His opinions are old wine in new bottle - buyer beware.
sarkar
May 22, 2012 04:36am
author is making too many simplistic assumption, continue to maintain that some how Pakistan Military will be capable of containing India with its tactical nuclear weapons, never mind that India also have similar weapons, which make these weapons as useless, never to be used, like elephant tusk, they are only for show, until and unless both nations decide to commit mutule suicide. He makes comment on India's economy slowing down, that will some how make pakistan stronger, forgetting Pakistan itself is facing balance of payment problem, it can not expect to receive dole from IMF and World bank for ever, and now the billions it collect from US are in jeopardy, and a nation where only 2.5 % population pay tax, and about 80-90 family control 90 % of irrigated land, and an entrenched feudal system, with no hope for millions of bonded workers and no hope of land reform, it can expect to improve its economy with army taking 50 percent of cash resources. I think both army and feudal lords of Pakistan should introspect, make this great country with enormous resources to realize its full potential, en-powering its masses with land reform, giving them hope and future, improve education to compete in complex world, outlaw all the Madarsas who breed hate, violence and ignorance, where parents force to send their children, who are chained and beaten, because parents can not afford the schooling of the children. without education, there can be no future or any nation including pakistan. Living in a world of hate against India is not going to take nation on path of progress, I wish Pakistan well.
alan
May 22, 2012 04:42am
Typical pakistani reaction of hopelessness and sheer despair .fact is you cant compete with india and failed badly at using any tactics .INDIA does not need trade with pakistan at all .its already a major economic power in world and pakistan is useless and its association with pakistan will lead to its own doom ...amongst all negotiations it will pakistan which will stand benefitted ,,, pakistanis can never be trusted and india should not do so weyther its visa or trade or anything unless pakistan takes steps conducive for india
BlackJack
May 22, 2012 04:48am
A one-sided article that attempts to portray India as the aggressor thwarting all genuine moves by the peaceniks who rule the Pak establishment. You Siachen AGPL argument is extremely misleading; currently India controls the heights and will continue to do so even if the AGPL is not authenticated; on the other hand, an authentication could easily be linked to a demilitarization (possibly leaving a token force on either side) that would clearly assuage Pakistan's paranoia regarding India's access to GB and its supposed agenda to block the Pak-China route. Further, you have also stated that India views China as a larger threat and its military spends are influenced by uncertainty in the North and North-Eastern sectors; for Pakistan to force itself into this game and then shoot itself in the foot is of no consequence to India, but given that Pakistan has the highest defence spends in the region as a ratio to GDP, requires a radical rethink. Third, trade between both countries is a welcome means to normalize relations, but is contstantly held hostage to a terrorist threat from Pakistan; the Kashmir issue on the other hand, is inching towards normalcy and is unlikely to provoke a derailment of existing ties.
Babu
May 22, 2012 05:59am
As long as pakistan remains an ideological state there is little space for a friendly co exisitance between these two countries. Their recent dealing with USA and afghanistan shows no evidence of any change in pakistan's stand.So future is not very optimistic.
Sinha
May 22, 2012 06:06am
What is your basis for the claim that Pakistani Army has changed its stance since Kargil? Kayani has not even made a statement regarding this, let alone any actual action on the ground, yet you are going to town pretending as if everything is hunky and dory. India can never afford to let its guard down.
vinit
May 22, 2012 06:16am
I have been reading dawn for few years and read many articles on india, pakistan, kashmir and many aspects of life for people on both sides. I have also have attended many discussions between both expatriates and also western audience. Considering everything I feel the difference lies in attitudes shaped over generations. Pakistanis have the feeling that injustice has been done at the time division and bangladesh was an indian conspiracy. The eternal fear of Indian attack looms on their minds. Indians have the tendency not to trust anything or anyone from pakistani side. The westerners feel we are still so immature not to solve so old problems. Overall I feel the author has covered the problems with good writing, but the old mindset or rather the old one lurks out. I thing the change can be brought out by only the new generation and institutions of cricket, trade, music, films and other non-governmental institutions as the government on both sides lack the guts to take any bold decision.
G. Thind
May 22, 2012 06:17am
Sir for your information as per recent figures sourced from the SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute) military expenditure database Pakistan spends 2.8% of its GDP while India spends 2.5% of it’s GDP.
Arun
May 22, 2012 06:34am
Perhaps former foreign secretaries should stop pretending that they can write unbiased articles that might be actually worth a read.
N Kumar
May 22, 2012 06:35am
Mr Tanvir ahmed Khan these are highly objectionable and fully non factual statements Pakistani planners would not overlook the possibility that India would use blood, treasure and technology to jeopardise Pakistan’s land link with China. Mr tanvir you tell me who is using blood you or us the whole world knows Kashmir remains the worst example of India treating ambition as entitlement. Kashmir is apart of India ,In fact you should be grateful that we gave you some land infact at that stage
Vivek
May 22, 2012 06:48am
You are really talking like a former foreign secretary ..we need bilateral progress on cricket, social, bollywood and most important economy ..lets not talk about terrrorist going to India, dawood living safely in Karachi ..parlmnt, mumbai attacck, LET etc ...Musharraf like attack can now never happen (just 12 yrs old) but India still aspire for limited war ..ha ha ha... Bottom line, economy is pinching badly buddy
Deepen
May 22, 2012 07:16am
After OBL episode finally the world has seen the real Pakistan, which India has been suffering for over 6 decades. Pakistan just cannot be trusted. Period.
Sandeep
May 22, 2012 07:34am
the GDP of pakistan is$176.87 Billion US dollars and India is$1.73 Trillion US dollars.You cant even compare the defence expenditure,my friend.India is far ahead.you could have found out GDP of pakistan before you give a statement like this.
jatin
May 22, 2012 07:44am
Why India should trust Pakistan when it continues to be a safe haven for terrorists who commit atrocities in India and then run back.
Monty..
May 22, 2012 07:48am
Relationships cannot be forged in the presence of trust deficits.. Trade diplomacy/cricket diplomacy/cultural diplomacy etc., are all futile attempts to mask the bigger issues between two counties such as Kashmir.. Becoz, the best way to solve the Kashmir issue is to continuously neglect it..Thats wt happening...
Shankar
May 22, 2012 08:05am
Any solution that is even remotely acceptable to one side will be seen as a total sell out by the other side. No progress on permanent solution is possible at this time. We can only hope for detente to continue
VINOD
May 22, 2012 08:07am
The writer, a former foreign secretary, seems to be caged in age old perceptions and solutions. He has singularly avoided the point of views of India in the matters of Siachin and Sircreek. Any way I agree with him that we must come closer in cooperation in all fields.
gopal
May 22, 2012 08:08am
To call Musharraf's Kargil adventure as the last of its kind is absurd. it was followed up by an attack on Indian parliament and then the attack in Mumbai. LeT is banned but its leadership moves openly and raises money every year for terrorism directed against India. The two key steps that Pakistan can take to prove that the current change is not temporizing, would be to turn over the masterminds of Mumbai attacks over to Indian/international justice and to correct the historical distortions in textbooks.
murali
May 22, 2012 08:11am
A perfect example of frog in the well. Mr, Khan, for sure, you are not a DAWN material.
amol
May 22, 2012 08:23am
Today's world is not about conquering territory,it's all about economical victories.Japan don't have a army as it's own as per amendment forced on them during world war II but still they are ruling the world through their technology. Please my Pakistani Brothers think about it..
sulthan
May 22, 2012 08:24am
I certify statements above by readers as more accurate and articulate than the old retired and soon to become Al.. ko Pyare author.
sulthan,Delhi
May 22, 2012 08:29am
i mean statements below...
sulthan
May 22, 2012 08:38am
hey hey hey,the author obviously got his numbers wrong....a better homework next time perhaps.
kaly
May 22, 2012 08:39am
The fact is India don't require to trade with Pakistan, its Pakistan who need India. Moreover unless Pakistan is uprooting terrorism, India shouldn't trade with them.
zubair
May 22, 2012 08:45am
the Region in which Pakistan and INdia is situated is currently unstable as it is being currently dominated by western forces. however due to the indication of western withdrawl by 2014 the competition for the supermacy of Region will pick up pace. IN this contest India has already gained an upper hand, by backing the US slogan to develope build and transfer afghanistan to afghan people. Afghan Parliament , thousands of kilo meters of Road network, scholarships etc is the evidence of increasing Indian foot print in Pakistan's backyard. Through Afghanistan INDIA seeks axsis to IRANIAN gas feilds axsis to CENTRAL ASIAN REPUBLIC and TO encricle Pakistan. on the other hand Pakistan'can not scarifice its security interests.
Majid
May 22, 2012 09:00am
@alan, Pakistan is facing problem right now because some bad policies, but one must understand that future of pakistan is shining. our geography is enough to be very important for all. so if india do nto want trade with pakistan then why they are always calling for MFN? you will see in in next ten years pakistan will cross india that i am sure. huge and poor india can not compete Pakistan.
Pankaj
May 22, 2012 09:26am
"our geography is enough to be very important for all" If you look closely, this is the reason for turmoil and misery in your country. I haven't seen any cry in India to receive MFN status from Pakistan. What are we going to achieve with that? We already granted you MFN long ago. Regarding Pakistan crossing India in next 10 years, keep dreaming as always..
Pankaj
May 22, 2012 09:28am
Very true. Well said.
Aviratam
May 22, 2012 09:29am
what do you expect from a former Foreign Secretary , now part of a pro-establishment think tank?
Pradeep
May 22, 2012 09:31am
Cent percent agree
Pavas
May 22, 2012 09:33am
I stopped reading this article where I read that the Indian GDP growth rate has fallen to 4.25% in Q42011..Such a blatant lie, even from a former foreign secretary is astonishing!! Indian growth rate has been 7.8%, 7.7%, 6.9% and 6.1% respectively in Q1-Q4 2011 respectively (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/india/gdp-growth).Even in 2012-13 we are expected to grow by a healthy 7.5% according to ESCAP (Almost 2.5 times of your growth rate assuming you manage to achieve 3% growth rate) .. Although there is no doubt that Indian economy has slowed down a bit in the last financial year, but the main cause is second strike of world economic recession..Growth rate of your new master China is also faltering..I don't see any hue and cry over that...False data about Indian economy and Indian growth is nothing but a face saving attempt by Pakistani Government and it's media..I don't have any ill-will against Pakistan or its people, but I feel really very sorry to see their delusional haughtiness and paranoiac behavior..
Abhishek
May 22, 2012 09:44am
Same goes with small and very poor pakistan
SURA
May 22, 2012 09:55am
We all know what it takes to mend our ways. We all know that when people live together its a matter of give and take and love and care and compromise. But only through consistent actions of fairness and support for the other on all issues and taking their genuine concerns into consideration does one find a long term solution to a long term problem. My generation is sick of those who argue in favour of their own position. Be it Indians or Pakistanis. Lets all accept that we maintain strengths and weaknesses in various areas and then begin taking concrete sincere steps to assist and enjoin in an effort to head towards and land some day at a place where my children who arent born yet will be proud of our efforts as sensible human beings.
pakorachai
May 22, 2012 10:06am
There is nothing new and the old ideas have been put in the old leaking bottles with no labels whatever. No wonder foreign policy has been, and is at a cross roads for Pakistan for decades now.
Socrates
May 22, 2012 10:08am
"Kashmir remains the worst example of India treating ambition as entitlement." I suggest that the writer read the UN Resolution of 1948. Its first specification is that Pakistan withdraw both its armed forces and non-uniformed forces from Jammu and Kashmir. It recognizes the accession to India but wants the people to ratify it. Pakistan should take the first step by adhering to the UN Resolution.
Amit
May 22, 2012 10:12am
I really hope if the people of Pak start working towards becoming better economically and avoid becoming a failed state. I wish people of Pakistan start working for bettering themselves than harming the neighbors, India and Afg.
Socrates
May 22, 2012 10:15am
One solution would be to let India develop Pakistan as a market for its own products. And India as a market for Pakistani goods. It should orchestrate the winding down of the Pakistani armed forces to no more than 100,000 men and women and drastically reduce Pakistani defense expenditures. It should help Pakistan become a secular state. The agenda of trying to become an Arab nation is destroying Pakistan.
Shankar
May 22, 2012 10:19am
Majid, This is the kind of competition India & Pakitan should engage in, whose GDP is growing faster, whose education levels are better, whose longevity is better and of course who is better in cricket & hockey - not whose nuclear arsenal is better, whose missiles have a longer range or who has lost more lives in the hands of terrorists. Nothing will me make me happier than to see a prosperous Pakistan, that is one sure way getting rid of militancy and terrorism.
NORI
May 22, 2012 10:23am
Which world are you living, mate ? Pakistan crosses India in 10 years ? That would be a wonder then.. It's true India is not rich, but to be realistic, do you think is it possible to make 1.2 billion people middle-class citizens, forget about making them rich ? Even America with world's largest economy and with a much lesser population of 300 million (if I am correct) can't boast that there is no poor American. Finally, geographical location is important but no country can survive just on that factor. It's a nice side dish but not main course.
NORI
May 22, 2012 10:27am
Sub-standard article if you look at the standards of Dawn. Pakistan's obsession with Kashmir costed it dearly. Hope Pakistan doesn't loose the horse in its obsession for a saddle.
Socrates
May 22, 2012 10:33am
India and Pakistan do not need to compete. Instead they should help each other to achieve high levels of education, health, economic well being, democracy including freedom of speech and more. When nations stop competing and start cooperating everybody wins.
Paras Vikmani
May 22, 2012 10:57am
I am surprised that Dawn published such a propaganda article which deserves to be published in The Nation.
Mohammad A. Wahab (Pakistan)
May 22, 2012 11:22am
The most important and encouraging fact is there is a growing mutual understanding and awareness that both sides have to take steps forward to overcome trust deficit. The way things are moving, it will not take much time when population on both sides will start reaping benefits. I think we on both sides will have to elevate ourselves from foolish emotionalism and purposeless mudslinging. We need to realize that we can't develop unless we get rid of harmful emotions. If Tanvir Khan made a statistical mistake even purposefully, the best logical and reasonable way should be to straighten the facts without indulging in emotions. Pakistanis, by and large respect their neighbours and want to have very good relations in the background of their undeniable historic cultural ties. Pakistan never blocked any Indian channel from the access of an average Pakistani. India should also open access for average Indians as they can't access Pakistani channels. This will help more both sides to understand each other inspite of the fact that Pakistanis get best treatment in India and Indians are also received with open arms in Pakistanis. Can anybody deny that?
d. Goel
May 22, 2012 11:41am
Well Janab Tanvir AhmedKhan Sahibhas been holding Highranking assignmentsin Indo Pak parleys forseveral yrs. He if i am not wrong belongs to higher echelons ofpakistan's higher Diplomatic Services.He was Foreign Secretary ofPakistan estt. so he can be trustedto represnt official thinking of pakistani ruling circles. such disposition hardly cares forthe uplift of Dahkans and harisofof Rural pumjab and Sindh. He mustappreciate thevoices of dissent ofBaluch andPakgtoon wa people who do not wish to be smothered by Pakistani Army largely Punjabi Mussalmans.Tanvir sahib see these gruelling crises of Pakistani masses , andseek true federal democratic system , and power sharingwith masses at the grass-roots. D.G
Harambe Singh
May 22, 2012 11:43am
2 days we had a guy here beating drums about how Pakistans GDP Per Capita was better than that of India till 2006. And now we have this Foreign Secretary who is giving numbers feeding lies their population so they thump their chests on false bravado. Pakistan should start by being honest about itself. Because I sincerely believe that if you do not recognize the problem -- you are never going to find a solution.
kashmiri muslim
May 22, 2012 11:48am
Majid, everyone wishes pakistan to be "stable". read any western newspapers of reputation. they refer to pakistan as "dirt poor unstable nuclear armed nation in the grips of its rogue army". if you are under the illusion of that you are shining and are not-poor, then even allah cannot save you. i would suggest you guys to do some introspection first. your country's standing in international community is worst and shameful to say the least. everyone considers your country a headache. because, the saner voices are drowned by hamid guls and zaid hamids. as long as people like them prevail ... you are doomed. so, stop patting your own back. I'm a kashmiri muslim. except for the army presence here ... i can say for sure that we have more rights here in india than any of the minority communities in other countries do.
bharath
May 22, 2012 12:15pm
Totally sub-standard
Puneet
May 22, 2012 12:18pm
His writing is full of hypocracy,and bias.....Hs lack of knowledge and research is visible in his writing. see for example his mentioning of 4-5 % growth rate of Indian economy.. ridiculus....Now i undersand why Inda -Pakistan relations have failed....as for as Trade is concerned..India is not dying for trade with pakistan.Pakistan wants trade with India as its economiy is under ruins....that is the reason it wants to vacate Siachin as it cannot afford it and not becoz it wants peace ! (overally cost of mainainence is $ 2 million per day for pakistan and $ 3 million for India , India can afford pakistan cant )..another reason why it wants trad with India... Pakistan indirectly buys $ 8 billion worth of India goods (machinery and what not) through Dubai route ( the Indian labels are changed ..direct trade will reduce it considerably ,overall costs for pakistan willl reduce to 1/4 to $ 2 billion )....DAWN should not get this news into its journal...it reduces it overall quality...
Anil
May 22, 2012 12:27pm
What Pakistan needs is to first and foremost, restore its credibility in the international community. It cannot be the fountainhead and exporter of terror. Pakistan has reached this sad state of affairs, solely based on its obsession on kashmir, and trying to harm india thru terrorism. Unless it gives up both , it cannot rebuild its economy. Retired Foreign secretary and his 20th century ideologies should be completely thrown into the garbage bin, lock stock and barrel. India and pakistan must cooperate and that will bring so much good to the poor in the sub continent. However that is subject to zero tolerance on terrorism, and pakistans stopping droning on and on and on about kashmir.
sam
May 22, 2012 12:41pm
above or below... same story...
GKrish
May 22, 2012 12:57pm
@Srini: When invoking the memories of '71, what is required is not to recall "atrocity", but the magnanimity shown by India, in not only protecting over 90,000 prisoners of war of Pakistan, who became unwitting guests for a couple of years in India, soldiers who may well have been lynched in the new country of Bangladesh had they continued there, with India ensuring their safe return across the border to Pakistan. In the annals of history, this was the first time that it happened to such a large number of soldiers - and as of today, it is still a record. This, at a time, when "garibi hatao" was the catch-phrase for the Indian economy ! I hope there is some Pakistani somewhere who will vouch for this.
Alam
May 22, 2012 12:53pm
Bad luck of China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Burma, Nepal is that they have to bear India as a neighbour. Due to behaviour of India none of the above pays respect. Just look at the comments from the Indians in response to this article. China is much superior to India in every respect but you will never listen from them that they are very strong or that they are super power. Everyday you will listen such claims from Indians. They are comparing themselves with Pakistan but they will never do comparison with China. Just read few comparisons, India borrowed USD.3.0 billion from world bank for the improvement of their infrastructure while China spent USD.290 billion (additional projects) for infrastruture in 2010. Total foreign trade of only Guangzdong Province is more than double of total Indian foreign trade. Millions of Indians sleep on footpaths while hardly anyone in China or Pakistan sleep on the footpaths. Paksitan dont need to talk with India. Pakistan have already help in breaking one super power into 13 pcs. in Afghanistan and the presently lone super powers in facing the same fate at the same place. Then Paksitan will make India bleed again like before they were doing until the US landed in this region to the rescue of India.
raika45
May 22, 2012 12:53pm
What about the millions of muslims in the rest of India.Your country wants to take them back Tanvir Sahib? If Islam is your reason for Kashmir separation then something must be done with these people.After all India was divided to give the muslims a nation.Ask these muslims. DO they want to settle in Pakistan? Now ask your people in Pakistan. How many of you want to trade places with these Indian muslims.
gora
May 22, 2012 12:53pm
The self-intoxicating phase of shining India has faded a little .... India is now globally recognised as amongst the top military spenders.... who is stopping Pakistan to spend. As long as you keep on eating grass, or is it for the poor only?
gora
May 22, 2012 01:23pm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/... By 2050, India will be the second largest economy in the world superceding USA.
Ravi Kumar Bhargava
May 22, 2012 01:52pm
As a solution to many of the problems between India and Pakistan - Is there any possibility of REUNION of India and Pakistan to become UNITED INDIA a democratic , secular, progressive, strong nation? Ravi Kumar Bhargava
An observer
May 25, 2012 10:50pm
Is there one good reason why India should join such a condominium? To my mind there are thousands of reasons why India should not touch Pakistan even with 1000mile long bargepole.
BRR
May 22, 2012 02:14pm
A rabidly one sided article full of falsehood draws negative responses, and does not further peace. Shame on the writer - he aims to misinform.
amit
May 22, 2012 02:18pm
Dear Mr. Khan I live in Mumbai. A little over 3 years back, 11 goodwill ambassadors from Pakistan landed in my city, and did what they were taught to do by their handlers and masters. These were places I frequent, my friends frequent. Call me touchy, but the trauma was all too personal. The pigs who trained them and sent them remain unpunished. The infrastructure that created them is still in place. To my jaundiced eyes, Pakistan talking peace is just a satellite state which has run out of sponsors. Maybe I am being 'small-hearted' - as one of your cricket players had famously observed, but hey, that's just me!
alex
May 22, 2012 02:22pm
can pak guarantee ZERO cross border firing, Zero border infiltration, wind up six wellknown jihadi training camps which can be verified at zero notice by international observers, ??? India has no need for Pak trade , See how Bangla Desh is fully cooperating fully benefitting -- can pak fully stop abduction of Hindu girls & ban moulvis from marrying to muslims & prosecute the moulvis--- what do you say ??? Alex
Shakil khwaja
May 22, 2012 02:27pm
Excellent article simply judging by the 43 Indian comments (as of this writing) criticizing Mr. Khan. I see no hope of Aman Ki Asha as long as Indians are overly optimistic of the their economy's growth over the last two decades. Case in point being its growth has been uneven when comparing different social groups, economic groups, geographic regions, and rural and urban areas. Despite significant economic progress, one quarter of the Indian population earns less than the government-specified poverty threshold of 32 rupees per day. Granted that Pakistan is not doing great either, but keeping in mind that 250 million Indians live below the poverty line, both countries cannot afford endless wars. That was the whole point of the article. Mr. Khan, thank you for writing a well balanced article that articulates the issues and the need to look beyond those.
opportunist
May 22, 2012 02:56pm
@ everyone above...this article is pretty sloppy and unreliable but this page is a gold mine for any entrepreneur..looking at the comments alone I get the feeling that I can be rich by making a "India beats Pakistan" movie and selling it in India and the going to Pakistan and selling a bitter criticism of that movie...I'm going to be rich rich rich..and all I need is the Indo-Pak transaction to start...for the opportunist, war is so much more lucrative than peace..keep fighting
Sarbjit S Sidhu
May 22, 2012 02:57pm
When thinking and writing about Indo-Pak relations we should not forget that we are neighbors and we were one country not too long ago and might come quite close to each other in not too distant a future. Some people will find it difficult but man made borders are especially fickle. I remember in 50s-60s we were taught that borders of national states in Europe were historical and eternal and look at Europe now. It may not perfect but it is a far cry from old times. So while looking at our Sub-Continental problems we should keep it in mind. We two people on both dides of Wagha Boders share too much past and cultural heritage. So my take whatever it is worth let us solve the problems which we can now and leave others to future.
Jafar Khan
May 22, 2012 02:59pm
More then the article the vitriol and morbid fascination of our Indian friends towards Pakistan is truly revealing. If India is so powerful and Pakistan doesnt matter why does DAWN attract such a large following in India. One doesnt detect such strong response from Indians on newspapers published in Bangladesh or Sri Lanka. Even a study of comments on English newspapers from China would bear this out. If Pakistan is so irrelevant to India or if India has so decisively beaten Pakistan I dont think so many Indians would be following and commenting Pakistani newspapers. Ever seen Americans commenting on Mexican newspaers in such large numbers or Chinese on Vietnamese papers. Secondly, the nature and content of most of the comments brings out an utter lack of graciousness that people in most small South Asian countries associate with the mainstream Indian mind. Gloating over Indias power and success and denigrating Pakistan is really rich and represents a leap of faith considering it comes from a country where more then 45 per cent of the population earn less then 1.25 dollars a day. Even today large percentage of people in major urban centres live on footpaths often from birth to death. This is not to embarrass our Indian friends or to underplay the incidence of poverty in other South asian countries including Pakistan but to add some perspective to the Indian bravado. The number of districts in India affected by naxalites, caste violence or some other form of violence on a persistent basis would also be instructive. Of course the Brahmin core provides a coherence and control to the Indian polity that allows commerce and Industry to flourish but just upto a point. India has made important strides but is it irreversible...Think again. Again our Indian friends, even if they dont publicly accept it, must be finding it remarkable that Pakistani papers allow unfettered access to Indian commentary on their websites. For comparison, our Indian friends may try critical comments about Indian foreign policy or Kashmir on Indian media websites and they will always see them censored. At least I got never find space for my comments on any Indian media website. A bit of modesty, sophistication and introspection would take India a long way. It is in Indias interest as well to understand that a friendly periphery is a must if it desires to sit on the high diplomatic table and achieve internal consolidation and development.
Samshed Alam
May 22, 2012 03:02pm
Regarding Kashmir is settled as far as India is concern, so there is nothing to talk. Additionally, Kashmiris (both Indian and Pakistan held) do not want to integrate with Pakistan, so my question is does Pakistan want to loose the portion of Kashmir it already have. I rally think that Pakistan should start thinking clearly and start making 5 year and 10 year goals, as every country do. Day dreaming is not going to give anything at all, as we are seeing from last 65 years.
Jafar Khan
May 22, 2012 03:08pm
More then the article the vitriol and morbid fascination of our Indian friends towards Pakistan is truly revealing. If India is so powerful and Pakistan doesnt matter why does DAWN attract such a large following in India. One doesnt detect such strong response from Indians on newspapers published in Bangladesh or Sri Lanka. Even a study of comments on English newspapers from China would bear this out. If Pakistan is so irrelevant to India or if India has so decisively beaten Pakistan I dont think so many Indians would be following and commenting Pakistani newspapers. Ever seen Americans commenting on Mexican newspaers in such large numbers or Chinese on Vietnamese papers.
Prafull
May 22, 2012 03:10pm
I hundred percent agree. Pakistan can never be trusted. All terrorism must stop if they want to do business and become friend of India. If pak behaves like this just punish them instead of helping them. 26/11 is still not solved after 4 years 7 no significant action on pak side, on the contrary hiding terrorist who commited such act against India. No one trusts Pak military or diplomats & politician in the world even chinese have realized this.
Neptune Srimal
May 22, 2012 03:26pm
Saser La is not on Siachen Glacier. It is a pass on the Great Karakoram Range between the Nubra and the Upper Shyok Valley where as Siachen glacier is further north and ends in the Nubra river. I am a little astonished that a former Foreign Secretary does not know this.
sridhar
May 22, 2012 03:27pm
Trading with Pakistan is a bad idea. Only thing it seems to export today is terrorism. Terrorists all over the world somehow seem to have some link with Pakistan. That is not to say eveything is bad. There are some good, bold people but they are overshadowed. India should be wary of trade with Pakistan. There is nothing to gain except the mouth-watering prospect (for the Indian business) of easy access to Pakistani market. This is not much of a gain but India Inc thinks it will have BOP in its favor. Trade with US is more than 100 billion, with china more than 60 billion. Compared with that trade with Pak will be insignificant. Thing to worry about will be terrorists crossing into India in the garb of businessmen.
psingh
May 22, 2012 03:28pm
The guy looks un educated. LEAVE IT,.....
Indian k
May 22, 2012 03:32pm
The author is former foreign secretary? No wonder there has been no progress towards peace in the past. Lets hope for the future.
Sriram
May 22, 2012 03:52pm
Well said-couching half truths in sanctimonious tones-completly misleading and one sided.Such duplicity!!With such guys like this as Foreign Secretary is it any wonder relations are where they are??
Anuj
May 22, 2012 03:58pm
.....and if no one pays heed to the words of the dear retired ex Foreign Secretary what happens ? here is what may happen - 1.Nothing. Status quo. Pakistan stays in it's perceived shell of a wronged nation and continues to add fat to the fire of self righteousness, while India starts losing hope or interest in any further rapprochement as it sees meeting after meeting collapse on the anvil of perceived sovereignity, self righteousness etc . 2.Indiia moves to work with Afghanistan anyway, Karzai or taliban in power, from 2017 onwards through diplomatic channels, irrespective of the horror or conspiracy theories in Pakistan. India shall need friends to the west. Pakistan either is by now caught up in genuine reforms to slowly better it's economy and people oriented policies; or it is hopelessly caugfht in further issues of Baloch movements and the sectarian strife is increasing further...depending on elections and status of the "religious right" in the Nat Assembly and of the level of control civili govt has on the real rulers, the defence forces. 3.India is struggling with it's eastern broders and internal growth etc in a worldwide economic slowdown situation, and gives up trying rapprochement with Pakistan, and Pakistan starts an aggressive "we were snubbed" campaign at all levels - civil society, defence, elite, general society, in an effort by the weak elected govt of that day to use a single idea of hate (India) to forge a purpose albeit a negative one. 4.and best of all - Pakistan and India genuinely agree on real trade, real cooperation on food, bijli and trade based on comparative advantages and once this crosses USD 10-15 Bn, there is a real bunch of people on either side who will then strive to stay the course of jointly bettering themselves and their economies, and the govt based on tax revenues from trade alone, would be forced to start taking less jingoistic lines in future, and open their mouths in closed door summits, not thru media and will stop using the hate language for each other, if oly to manage a growing constituency.
Sandip
May 22, 2012 04:02pm
A dream worth pursuing for next 10 years. However for it to materialize you would have to brush up facts and stop living in wonderland. Pakistani people do deserve a good future but not in the way you are portraying it.
Jawwad
May 22, 2012 04:06pm
and its association with Pakistan will lead to its own doom - That's the whole idea :)
Sinha
May 22, 2012 04:32pm
But Indians get the worst possible treatment from Pakistanis within India. They are killed on the streets.
Cyrus Howell
May 22, 2012 04:37pm
Ughuirs in China are allowed to travel anywhere in China to sell their raisins, nuts and roasted lamb. Their young children all go to well run Chinese schools, and entrance examination standards are lowered so that Ughuirs can attend Chinese universities. Many young Han Chinese are angry that the Muslims get preferential treatment, and are allowed to have as many children as they wish. A lot of Muslims in the world should have it so good.
Gurdeep
May 22, 2012 04:42pm
Of course, given the history, India should never let its guard down, but showing arrogance for newly acquired prosperity is not a symbol of greatness.
Cyrus Howell
May 22, 2012 04:48pm
China and India are not known for wars of aggression. China is much more concerned with its Russian border.
SR
May 22, 2012 04:52pm
Could you write that Pakistan needs to close LET camps dedicated to training terrorists against India?!! I think that will be a good starting point to build trust.
Cyrus Howell
May 22, 2012 05:01pm
If only 2.5% pay taxes (other than property taxes) it can only mean one thing. Taxing imported goods is all that is left, making the cost of living more expensive for the poor and the ordinary people. As an ordinary person myself, I would be outraged and not passive about the unfair economic setup. The Pakistan government would have to be spending money it does not have.
pathanoo
May 22, 2012 05:09pm
WELL SAID.
Naeem Afridi
May 22, 2012 05:15pm
things should be considered in realistic terms..to me much more violece is awaiting south asia in coming years..as USA withdrawal is in the offing .history of nonstae actors in south asia is quite long and painful.first paksitanis sent intruders to kashmir resulting 1965 war.then indians supporting mukti bahni and successfully dismembering paksitan.then came 1990 kashmir uprising and after 9/11 taking advantage of congenial international environment and nato presence in afghanistan indians counter moved in tribal regions and balochistan province.so as time of us retreat nears indians anxiety is increasing and most logically south asia will see a renewed violence this time again in different parts of india.not only in kashmir but in maoist controlled regions if pakistan decides to extend sort of assistence to them.
Sonny Azhak
May 22, 2012 05:18pm
This is an execrable article by a former Pakistani foreign secretary that is full of factual errors and suppositions and very partisan. The root cause of Pakistan's existensial crisis is its own self-created destructive policies followed every administration since 1947. An aid-dependant Pakistan could never survive in a competitive world. An education based on 'a hate India' agenda has created three generation of unthinking and unemployable Pakistanis who have been manipulated by a military-feudal-clerical troika that only served its own narrow interests. It is not true to say that India needs Pakistan for trade, the former's two biggest trading partners are China and the USA.Pakistan hardly figures on the radar. India also has to spend heavily on its military beacuse it faces a long-term threat from China and a short-term one from Pakistan. Pakistan's deluded attempts to reach parity with a powerful India (with the second fastest growing economy in the world) is dragging it down. It will never be ableto reach parity with India!
Caz
May 22, 2012 05:27pm
pakistan does not have a future !
Devendra
May 22, 2012 05:31pm
While the author is trying to be counciliatory; he unfortunatley can not overcome his biases accrued in his previous life as the (Ex) Foreign Secretary of Pakistan.
nipun
May 22, 2012 05:44pm
India does not intend to "encircle " pakistan, that's completely ludicrous, it's not like troops are being sent to iran or central asia to attack from there or something like that... india does indeed need access to iranian gas because of it's own energy needs and is naturally planning to trade with them... access to trade routes via pakistan to afghanistan, and iran are benificial to both india and pakistan! We need to shed this paranoia
Ravi
May 22, 2012 05:50pm
India is not poorer than Pakistan by any yardstick. Compare the per capita income, foreign reserves and per capita external debt to know the reality of India Pakistan economic equation. Also see India's spending in field of education in current and next five year plans. It is no way Pakistan can catch up with India, forget about surpassing it. Your geography has only got you into trouble.
Joe
May 22, 2012 05:51pm
I do realize most of the comments here are from the Indian side and not happy ones.. I'd say rightly so.. the author seems to be in his own fantasy world.. Its the articles like these that mislead the people and worse contribute in manipulating their opinion.. I wonder if an open mind is something that has become a thing of rarity in Pakistan!
Shree
May 22, 2012 06:07pm
How could Dawn publish it ? Never seen such piece which is full of self serving arguments and wishful interpretations. The theme is that If Pakistan holds the advantage in a particular area, it must stick to it and it is good idea not to compromise, while India, needs to relenquish any advantage it has over Pakistan for sake of peace !!!! I think Indian diplomats are far more capable. At least they dont shout from their rooftops when they know their ideas are not going to be acceptable to other side.
Agha Ata
May 22, 2012 06:13pm
Let me say something many years before you are ready to hear it, before many generations in this country live and die illiterate, die on the roads, or at homes with no doctors or hospitals, let me say it before a million people are killed, let me say it even before greater parts of Indian sub-continent disappear and even before the whole world is shaken, yes, let me say it before all that happens, let me say it even before when the newspaper "Dawn" or Mr Tanvir Ahmad is willing to publish my comments., LET ME SAY IT NOW... . . forget Kashmir!
Hassan
May 22, 2012 06:15pm
I see several Indians are angry at this article. It clearly says that this just an opinion of the author. You want me to provide links from Times of India on similar subjects where blatant lies are published as news? You need to understand this is just an opinion. Largely this newspaper and other Pakistani papers don't publish opinions as news like Times of India does. So India brothers just calm down. We know what your GDP is and I hope it grows but it is not nice to be arrogant and you may eventually become Americans as your country grows :-)
MBH
May 22, 2012 07:03pm
10 years? Pakistan will cross India?? the way things aere happening in Pakistan, It will be a miracle if Pakistan continues to exist after 10 years.
Agha Ata
May 22, 2012 07:47pm
Not until you have eradicated corruption.
dirovias
May 22, 2012 08:42pm
cant expect much from a nation that uses terrorism as a tool to forward is foreign policy objectives.Things can't get better till Kasmir obsession and India hatred remain a part of its national psyche
Wasit
May 22, 2012 09:21pm
One should never negotiate from a weak position. Pakistan should wait till things turn better for it after 2014. India's growth rate is nose diving. In 10 years Pakistan should be able to dictate the terms.
koushik
May 22, 2012 09:25pm
some phoren sec...huh!!! just keep the status quo....the stew will cook by its own.
Nathan
May 22, 2012 09:57pm
No matter whether it is Pakistan or India to blame, the relationship between these two countries is tragically nothing less than that of two enemy countries, despite the history of coexistence over centuries between Muslims and Hindus. It is not just a matter of trust deficit, it is a matter of bitter enmity borne out of post-partition genocide of innocent people. Unfortunately, this enmity is taken advantage of by other nations at very little cost to themselves. If this situation continues, the independence of both countries will be compromised. I am not sure that there is any short term solution to this self-delusion in both countries. In my opinion, Indians need to understand that peace and prosperity in Pakistan is a key requirement for the subcontinent to play a critical role in the comity of nations. Pakistan must also accept that there is a lot of goodwill for Pakistan in India even after the reckless tryst with terror by important elements in Pakistan. I see hopeful signs in Pakistan, and especially a recognition that continued hostility is not advancing its agenda or future. Sure there are elements out there to scuttle any promising change. But India should try to create an environment that can promote a common economic vision for the subcontinent even if there are likely disappointments. An unstable and hapless Pakistan is after all a trigger for destabilization of the entire subcontinent. This realization must be at the heart of Indian policy making.
indiapakpeace
May 22, 2012 10:13pm
we cud be the next euro zone , the south asian countries have the power to dominate the world ,but no never think of peace just keep fighting and the region will become poorer pakistan stop terrorism shake hands with india we will prosper
Sarpanch
May 22, 2012 10:38pm
Poorly written article. Reading this article felt like watching a kindergarten kid complaining about a missing toy and trying to invent ways to justify his flawed notion. I mean who is he really trying to fool? Himself? Or is he following the doctrine "If you can't convince them, confuse them.".
Asif
May 22, 2012 10:47pm
The writer seems to have hit a raw nerve with th Indians here. They dont realize that with attitudes like that,it will be difficult to achieve peace between our countries and trade to prosper. Indians ight now are boasting that they dont need Pakistan business fail to see that during the clobal business climate things can change very quickly.
An observer
May 22, 2012 11:05pm
In order to read it and comprehend it well, the author needs to change his spectacles until then everything is futile.
ashraf
May 22, 2012 11:09pm
This is article that diminishes dawn editorial desk reputation. And what is he talking about these strategic Himalayan wastelands when strategically we are facing an existential threat as a nation. Old generation Bureaucrats like this are why Pakistan is in the current state we are in. Even Bangladesh won't play a single game in Lahore...and guys like this are questioning free trade that can erase some of our poverty and let farmers export their goods.
indian
May 22, 2012 11:17pm
Well said.
Iftehhar
May 22, 2012 11:18pm
It is sad to see such an opinion finding a place in DAWN. Like millions of his compatriots, while continuing to harp on the Kashmir issue, he ignores the terrorism that has engulfed every part and province of Pakistan, the hell hole of obscurantism according to late Khalid Hassan, a well known Pakistani- American journalist of Kashmiri origin.
geekay09
May 22, 2012 11:27pm
Try doing the same to Afghanistan as India is doing. It is not the money that counts but it is the intention that will count. After all when Pakistan supports Haqqani or Afghan Taliban, some money is definitely spent, why can that money not be used to stablise Afghanistan. Then Pakistan can really be true brother of Afghanistan. Even though Karzai calls Pakistan as twins but Pakistan is more like mortal enemy for Afghanistan at present.
Akil Akhtar
May 22, 2012 11:30pm
No india ia a peace loving innocent and humble neighbour...LOL
Akil Akhtar
May 22, 2012 11:33pm
All we see on indian media is hatred for Pakistan and after Sep 11 it includes hatred for Islam as well, look at yourself in the mirror before pointing at others. Last time Pakistani cricket team visited india their bus was pelted with stones while indian batsmen like tendulkar were given standing ovations by Pakistanic crowd.
Akil Akhtar
May 22, 2012 11:35pm
Indian MFN status for Pakistan meant nothing as even sports teams are banned.... As for taking over india we were ahead of india for 50 years and we can go ahead again very easily if allowed. But India will continue to foster terrorism in Pakistan to keep it occupied.
Akil Akhtar
May 22, 2012 11:36pm
LOL keep dreaming. What about the 40% i.e. 400 million living under poverty line.
Akil Akhtar
May 22, 2012 11:40pm
Any article slightly critical of Idia gets a huge response from across the border and that also immediately any article positive about Pakistan seems to be missed altogether by the same readers. India is definitely winning the propoganda war through sheer lies and hypocrasy
Akil Akhtar
May 22, 2012 11:41pm
We know you ahve not accepted this ideological state from day one.......
Akil Akhtar
May 22, 2012 11:41pm
Why should we trust india when it continues to undermine Pakistan at every level and block all its rivers in an attempt to starve its people to death....
karur
May 22, 2012 11:46pm
This is a positive column by the ex Foreign Secretary and should read well in India. The reality is that Economics will finally drive the Indopak agenda and not the Military. Finally, India has an Economist at the helm, who believes in a friendly Pakistan. Both sides should move with speed to sieze this opportunity
Sam T
May 23, 2012 01:17am
It appears the writer is living in the past, and the people of Pakistan are taken to the wash for the last 60 years. Pakistanis are told wrong stories, given wrong numbers, taught hate toward other minorities in school curriculum. Today, May 22, 2012, two women from Karachi gave a clear picture what is happening in Pakistan. Go online and read what they have said. The people of Pakistan have to wake up and realize that world is going ahead and they are getting behind in education, science, economy and technology in the world. I am afraid 20 years from now , Pakistan will be in a slum unless they take charge and recognize their true status v-z-v India and try to uplift the country.
VASUDEV
May 23, 2012 01:39am
Keep dreaming!!! 60+ years weren't enough? As long as you do not separate state from your religion, you will never see any light..
VASUDEV
May 23, 2012 01:45am
GAS and OIL are non-renewable. How long will they last? It will be foolish to think that India seeks access to CIS gas fields by helping afghanistan. Indian do not need a repeat of what happened before 9/11. They want a stable and secular democracy not some nut jobs ruling or imposing medieval culture! It has been estimated that US spent enough money on Iraq war that would have bought them all the iraqi oil for175 years!
Sandy
May 23, 2012 02:14am
If Kashmir Ladakh Jammu ever becomes part of pak, what rights would minorities have. You can see how they are treated today on pak. Exterminate or drive them away by threats of violence or discrimination.
Rao
May 23, 2012 02:26am
Pakistan was much better than India in the 60's...South Korea copied the model of Pakistan development and has become a developed country. Whereas Pakistan is headed towards becoming a Least Developed country. Your Human Development Index is trailing behind Bangladesh & Nepal. The main reasons for this are.... Huge Defence Expenditure Miniscule funds for Social projects No Land Reforms. Obsession for parity with India. Pakistan Army takes away huge amounts of money from the treasury, by telling you gullible people that India is always ready to gobble up Pakistan. Trade is not important for India, because ours is not an export oriented economy, unlike China. But with trade India hopes to make relations with Pakistan better.
Akil Akhtar
May 23, 2012 03:00am
one could be mistaken to think they were reading an indian newspaper....
shrirang
May 23, 2012 03:11am
murali, you are right on target. DAWN & HINDU are best newspapers in subcontinent. The auther has damaged liberal, secular image of DAWN.
Ajaya K Dutt
May 23, 2012 03:32am
I did watch Pakistani Channels on Indian cable providers. To the best of my knowldge, none of the Pakistani Channels are blocked in India. However Pakistan, as far as I remember, does ban every so often Indian movies and channels. Please correct me if I am wrong. However respect of India is evident from the support terrorist and tone of media in Pakistan (Dawn being an exception to an extent).
gp65
May 23, 2012 03:34am
"In India, unfortunately, the doctrine of a limited war under a nuclear overhang has not been finally abandoned." India has not started wars and does not plan to do so in future. It simply does not have enough confidence that Pakistan will not continue to provoke India. Two recent examples are Kargill right after Vajpayee's peace mission was flagged off and 26/11 when Musharraf had almost reached a solution on Kashmir with India. Pakistan government can be sure that if Indian government agrees to something it WIL deliver. Indian governmen cannot count on that because there is no uniform pole: there is civilian government, there is army and there are non-state actors and all work with distinct agendas.
atul
May 23, 2012 05:42am
In fact feeling in India, we never needed Pakistan neither in past nor today . In fact during the formation of Sharc, Indira Gandhi was not too much curious to join the organization. But with feeling, world might say that India behaves like " Big Brother" India did join. I feel we should move in trade front with Pakistan will. Let Pakistanis should understand clearly Pakistan needs India more as compare to India needs
Deep Antil
May 23, 2012 05:50am
Comments are more interesting than the article.
bangalored
May 23, 2012 06:16am
i'm with u
Anuj
May 23, 2012 08:21am
well said!
Anuj
May 23, 2012 08:27am
i agree. In fact, i would argue further - why should Pakistan ever agree to negotiate - whether with India or US or Afghanistan or....anyone else one can think of? It is in the interest of Pakistan to negotiate. It is in their interest to get back on a better trajectory than now, or in their short nanosecond history of 65 yrs, if they wish to be a serious nation 20 yrs from now....in 10 yrs they will only have changed 2 governments , not a national mindset, which needs 2 decades of educational changes and eco-political changes to do any damage to old antiquated ideas. Wasit, it is still not a bad idea to accept change...it is the only constant. Living in denial is, really, only for fools.
Punjabi Jatt
May 23, 2012 08:43am
the reality is India without Pakistan is simply not complete. India needs Pakistan as much as Pakistan needs India. If you like India and Pakistan are like a broken pipe. We need to urgently weld and rejoin back together. Pakistanis and Indians can argue for and against each other till the proverbial fat lady sings or the cows come home. Any which way if you like but the reality is India and Pakistan need to merge again and fix the wrong that was done by Messrs. Nehru, Jinnah and the British Colonial Office.
Darshan
May 23, 2012 09:15am
How can they be socalled SECULAR or LIBERAL. If they pretend that they can rejoin/merge with India. All problems would be solved. We are feeding 20 crores another 15-20 crores we can handle them. Muslims league candidate can easily (believe or not) become PM. There would be a race for support. I AM NOT DAYDREAMING, JUST THINK ABOUT HOW HINDUS ARE SUFFERING IN THEIR OWN SOCALLED COUNTRY.
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 10:03am
please don't get carried away by your total GDP figures, do keep an eye on your poverty rates (even if you choose to use the Indian goverment's version what is defined by poverty, as opposed to internaqtional/UN organisation's defination of poverty) before throwing mud on others....Also I would like to add, if your country is so full of oppoertunities and job prospects etc, why are there so many Indian nationals outside India, including highly educated and manual labourers??
Rudra
May 23, 2012 10:05am
-- " Kashmir remains the worst example of India treating ambition as entitlement."-- And this statement from an ex-foreign secretary.... Keep living in denial and illusion ... And generation after generation in PAK since independence bred with this idea....As if otherwise PAK is the most peaceful and fun loving country to live in...
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 10:20am
Pankaj, please get real!! Why do people like yourself keep going on about saying "we gave you MFN status many years ago" but at the same time your government people raise non-tariff barriers?? who are you trying to convince that you are such do-gooders, why not be honest about the non-tariff barriers??
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 10:43am
I am not sure what you mean by small?? land size or population?? either way Pak is not small when compared to many countries in the UN. With regards to being poor, please take a look at your countries figures Poverty (%or actual numbers) and average salary per annum, rather than total GDP! your hardly in the middle income country league let alone in the rich league.......PS: please don't bother sending extrapolated figures for 2050 or even 2020............
vivek
May 23, 2012 10:45am
Dear Friend, The writer could not hide his bias against India by misquoting the GDP growth rate of India in Q4 2004.It was not 4.25% but 7.5 %.Check any source.
vivek
May 23, 2012 10:50am
Agree with you Akil but the data provided by the Auther is a huge lie.In Q4 2011 the GDP rate was surely above 6.5%
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 11:19am
Alan, perhaps you can enlighten us on a typical "Indian reaction" why, silly of me to even ask, should I not know that they are the most objective, rational people...........
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 11:22am
Well said AHA!!!
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 11:24am
I totally agree with your sentiments!
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 11:26am
Good point Amol!
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 11:30am
Shrini, guess what mate, it's your country who is one of the biggest buyers of "Shiny toys"..........go on check out the figures......
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 11:36am
Plese Babu don't be so niave, every country to some extent is based on some idealogy......
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 11:37am
To some extent you are right!
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 11:49am
Dear Amit, As a Pakistani, I deeply apologise for what happened and I am also ashamed that they being Pakistani and muslims killed innocent people for whatever reasons that they had..... But please realise I really do not think the Pak government or even the ISI was behind this, I think most likely this was solely the work of a terrorist organisation. You and other indians have every right to demand that evil people who were behind this are bought to justice...... Please do not let your anger get in the way of our 2 countries becoming good neighbours...
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 11:55am
Raika, why cannot you just deal with the issues raised in the article, why boil everything down to partition etc?? I am beginning to really think that some Indian people are obsessed with Partition and keep bringing this into evey Pak-India issue......
mann
May 23, 2012 12:17pm
"Any article slightly critical of Idia gets a huge response from across the border " The response is for telling lie, concern with reliabelity of statestics .
mannn
May 23, 2012 12:57pm
Agha ata is above the guardian
Majad Khan
May 23, 2012 01:46pm
Some of your comments are simply laughable, if India is already an economic power (your words), how come according to international benchmarks (not based on the indian government version of what is defined as poverty) the % of people who live in extereme poverty in India is a huge 40%!!!
Ali
May 23, 2012 03:45pm
you are stil living in denial... good luck with that.
Rao
May 23, 2012 04:13pm
Pakistan is loosing the propaganda war because of its foolish actions like sheltering people like bin Laden, Ramzi Yusoff, Dawood Ibrahim etc.
Rao
May 23, 2012 04:16pm
This is a totally biased article... What can you expect from a former foreign secretary....I am surprised that "Dawn" has published this
Muhammad Ahmed Mufti
May 23, 2012 04:58pm
I beg to disagree with you "kashmiri muslim", I am a Kashmiri Muslim born free in Pakistan, My family hails from Khanyar Srinagar. Indian army is not the only problem. The mass disappearances, mass graves, Indian attempt to change the states demography are also big issues. Equipped with uncheck powers the Indian army has unleashed worst barbarism in the region. If you are who you claim to be , I don't need to tell you the stories of Indian army’s brutality. Indian has lost moral ground to rule Kashmir. Indeed Pakistan is passing through a difficult phase but InshaAllah it will emerge out of it stronger. As for Kashmir I believe Kashmiris will be better off as Independent state then to join Pakistan.
R S JOHAR
May 23, 2012 05:43pm
I am quite disappointed with the negativity in the article especially when India is making consistant efforts to normalise relations with Pakistan. Many wrong data and references have been given ie GDP growth rate and India purchasing arms which have been purely China centric. Hope the Dawn management takes note of my comment and others from across the border. Regards
AmeriIndian
May 23, 2012 06:41pm
Poor guy thought he is writing in some local Pakistan news paper. Come on. We don't need your statics or your cooked up numbers. The facts and figures are there in the internet. Just do some browsing before writing these stuffs. India is shining and will continue shine. Indians are taking over the world. Every where they are accepted. You guys need to think about it and change. Listen to the Michael Jackson Song.. " Man in the mirror"
Srini
May 23, 2012 06:45pm
Krish, I don't understand your point. Magnanimity shown by India, shows the quality of India and I am not talking about it here. I am talking about the countless Pakistani Perfidy. The fact that Pakistanis do not even acknowledge that they wiped out 3Million human beings from the face of the earth, shows the mentality of Pakistanis. They need to comeout clean and accept their past behaviour and attrocities, including the 1971. Anyway, that is between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. They have to completely acknowledge all their terrorist activities in the past, collusions with foreign powers to hurt India and communicate an open apology. On top of it, they should show action on the ground by eliminating all the terrorist outfit that they are actively funding and training. They should handover the "most wanted" to India. If they do this, then there is hope for peace. Anything less than that, is a non-starter in my opinion.
Pidtis
May 23, 2012 07:26pm
I second what Amit says. As a Mumbaikar I feel an extremely deep sense of rage when it comes to the state of investigations about the Mumbai attacks. Pakistani's counter with the statement "Well we have one of those every few days". That may be true but you cannot claim sovereignty and do nothing about so called "non state actors". Worse, Pakistan rubs salt into open wounds when both minister and bureaucrat claim that all evidence provided is a work of fiction. Here was a crime planned in Paksitan and one that began in Pakistan and the best the government does is call the evidence India provides as fiction. You may wonder why a large number of Indians do not trust Pakistan and I have just listed the most recent reason. Second, India is not a superpower and may never be one. We are a poor nation with plenty of dreadful poverty. But, to suggest that Pakistan is indispensable to India's growth is ridiculous! Peace would bring growth and development to both nations but I fear that we will never get there because every couple of years there is an incident where Pakistan will just say "non-state actors" and do nothing after.
Pidtis
May 23, 2012 07:32pm
You are absolutely correct. Our respective nations cannot afford these wars. But I fear many in Pakistan just do not understand the trauma that Mumbai has caused (not to mention parliament, Kargill etc etc). Politicians and bureaucrats in Pakistan are treated as heroes when they claim all evidence provided by India is "fiction". However that just makes people in India more suspicious of their motives. Claiming sovereignty while doing nothing is not really a peaceful gesture. It is quite difficult to accept opening of all markets while also being bombed simultaneously. Therefore many Indians feel that it may not be so bad if we don't get to trade with Pakistan. There are now other routes to central Asia. Why do you think India is bending over backwards to please Iran/Afghanistan?
Pidtis
May 23, 2012 07:34pm
That is funny. India is managing its economy horribly. Our politicians are not rising above party lines even on economic matters. However Pakistan needs handouts to fund its budget!! What makes you think this will change in 2 years?
Pidtis
May 23, 2012 07:37pm
You claim that Indians do not deserve any respect..... Do you think your comments deserve any? They are not even factually correct!
slakistan
May 23, 2012 07:54pm
day dreaming as u did in 1971
Hariharan.S
May 23, 2012 08:05pm
Well....I could provide links from many Pakistani papers who pass fiction as news... We are not angry with the article...We are angry that this article found its way through a newspaper called DAWN....Reg TOI,everyone in India know that they are a trash tabloid material who publish provoking articles to get more comments.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckzsh9SpUAQ Why dont you try "The Hindu" for a change
Herman Shriver
May 23, 2012 09:06pm
Geography of Pakistan is quite important. That doesn't mean it is a blessing for her or her citizens. In fact, it is a curse. Actually, Afghanistan is more strategically situated than even Pakistan, yet all Afghans got was War, Poverty, illiteracy and ignorance. The same virus has caught Pakistan also and it is only question of time before Pakistan becomes like its neighbor, certainly not India but Afghanistan. Already, Bangladesh has out performed Pakistan on every metric, means Pakistan has slipped quite a bit, since 1971.
Raja Farhat Abbas
May 24, 2012 12:08am
Dear Alam,i agree with your comment 100%.
Akil Akhtar
May 24, 2012 01:30am
It seems Dawn is now promoting indian readers and suppressing the feelings of Pakistani readers. Where are the comments I posted I guess they were pointing the truth about india which could upset the larger readership across the border
shafiq
May 24, 2012 02:02am
if india is so great why asking for pipe line through pakistan
Majad Khan
May 24, 2012 02:36am
Pidtis, do you also feel pain and anger at what happened in the Samjohta express bombing??. You do not see the Pak relatives of the victims of the Samjohta express bombing or other Pak people going on about this bombing in various media portals or holding the peace process between our two countries at ransom? why is your pain so great even though you did not lose any relatives or freinds in the Mumbai attack?? By the way, How come the investgations for the Samjohta bombing are awfully slow and even if the evil culprits are bought to justice, do you think the Indian courts will give a death sentence to people like Purohit (assuming he is the main culprit) for killing Pak citizens and Indian muslim citizens, but Kasab rightly so has been given a death sentence....Please look at the current court proceedings for the Gujarat mass killings, so far non of the Hindu men convicted for those evil crimes has been given a death sentence, but simply just life senetences....I will stop here since I am beginning to stray too far off-subject......
vicar
May 24, 2012 04:11am
For your information non-tariff barriers are not pakistani specific, it applies to all countries who are willing to trade those specific commodities with India
Majad Khan
May 24, 2012 05:52am
Vicar, what is the point of giving MFN on one hand and then under putting up new obstacles, whose end result will be that the Pak business people cannot benefit. Also please next time you people decide to use the line "we gave you MFN many years ago" please add to this line "yes, but we also undermine cross border trade by raising non-tariff barriers!" this way many readers can see the whole truth and not just partial information. These kind of comments are similar to the type when many Indians who gloat on media portals about how rich they are as compared to Pak, forget to mention that the % of poverty in their country is higher than Pak's as well as the fact that the total GDP when divided by the total population is slightly more than Pak's.....as always many of these writers tend to be economical with the truth!!! Or sometimes just simply deceitful........
Naireet
May 24, 2012 06:37am
pakistan is also not far from india.. so i would only say...watch your collar first...
zain
May 24, 2012 07:10am
Foreign Sec level telling blatant lies. World powers don't trust u.
zain
May 24, 2012 07:11am
Keep dreaming buddy !!!!
Sameer
May 24, 2012 07:14am
he doesn't seem to know many other things as well mate.. poor chap, came up with blatant lies and raw data.
Sam
May 24, 2012 07:18am
DAWN is the only truth in the country of lies. and that perhaps the only reason why indians are so attracted. guess they know who to trust ;)
Majad Khan
May 24, 2012 07:22am
Bravo!!! well said............I could not have done a better job in putingt the same views across.....
Majad Khan
May 24, 2012 07:27am
Some of the Indian commenters keep showing off about their total GDP and their economic growth, but they forget to mention the ugly aspects of your growth...such as the poverty rates etc...True we also have poverty, but ours is less (I think around 28%....) I just want you to realise we know our limits and we are "watching our collar" but you do not see us showing off about the fact that our poverty is less than yours....
Ali
May 24, 2012 07:35am
ok to rebut your claims, here's for starters. 1. Dawn being so popular amongst indians, well i reckon they know who to trust then, from a country propagating blatant lies and hypocrisy its the only sane voice who talks truth and only truth. If you not able to understand this, then guess thats where the gap is. 2. Yes india is not there yet in terms of poverty eradication but its WIP mate.. considering the 10 times more size of it if compared to you. i think we going fairly good and inshallallah once day we will be amongst the riches... you guys talk about caste system and the brahmins being ruling the elite world, well thats everywhere.. isn't it.. i can't see a non-muslim or ahmadi sitting on a higher post in pakistan or for that matter in your office above you.. the caste system disctrimination is abolished and punishable by law, dont think thats the same there.. so stop pointing fingers and get your own house in order. every country has its own backdrops. considering the vast geographical nature, different regions, religions, languages, people i think we are still doing quite good from last 60 yrs. where are you ??? 3. Introspection is needed on the other side of the border my dear friend. India doesnt need to be reminded about that, we were there, are and inshallah always be. A friendly hand has always been provided by india to Pakistan, but got a dagger on its back all the time. You guys need more of that i believe....
sameer
May 24, 2012 07:48am
lol...
Aman
May 24, 2012 09:31am
I love to read the comments of Indian and Pakistanies, U know one day these comments will change into good will, These comments helps to get mature enough, if we talk only then solutions will come. Silent man is always dangrous.
Raja Farhat Abbas
May 24, 2012 10:39am
The indian Trolls have come out to play as far as this artical is concerned ,''Sigh''.
Ravi Inder Singh
May 24, 2012 11:22am
What a horrible and monumental waste the Indo/Pak conflict has been since 1947. There are hawks on both sides, but adding to that problem is the, at times amusing and distorted view many Pakistanis have regarding bilateral relations. Tanvir Khans opinion reflects this disillusionary mindset. People in India want peace with Pakistan, but there is now a strong element of disinterest underlining their view of Pakistan, which wasnt there earlier. There seems to be a distinct inferiority complex some Pakistanis suffers from, Tanvir Khans article is an example.... why?
Ravi Inder Singh
May 24, 2012 11:25am
Whats your problem..... forget about India, improve yourself, and be happy. get rid of you inferiority complex
vivek
May 24, 2012 11:45am
I mean Q4 2011 Rate was 7.5%
JonSarki
May 24, 2012 12:23pm
If by Pakistan is so so sincere about peace, why does it not accept status quo ante in respect of the borders? Why is it India that must concessions? Why does not Pakistan try the perpetrators of numerous attacks on India? Indian people will not accept territorial concessions made by Manmohan "Neville Chamberlain" Singh.
Anuj
May 24, 2012 12:47pm
The reasons for this are 1.most papers do not allow blogging and writing- in , including in Bangladesh, China. Where they do, "us" Indians are around to ridicule, laugh at and pinch, always. That's our way of treating each other - we are argumentative Indians who argue about almost anything but don't plan to kill becuase we do not like the other's views, whether on Kashmir or otherwise. 2.India has no historical baggage of enemies, but due to the terror infrastructure we (you may say, completely irrrationally) believe is next door in Pakistan, like to see how you guys are faring. What are your current views on terror, on "us Indians" , whether your press (which we believe) which resonates popular sentiment (you see, you have interesting extremes from Jung, Nation to Dawn) has inputs on the mindset in your nation etc. 3.We are ordinary folk with an interest in our welfare and like to know what is the way the wind is blowing in the country which seems to only take negative stances in world polity/international stage against India. 4.We also would like to hope that the so called epicentre of terror is not the neighbour as the big bad International press tells us, and keep searching to see whether that is a Yes or NO thru your press. I mean, it is hardly possible for me to hitch a train ride for a short vacation in lahore and pub hop in Karachi to understand "what's going down" in the social scene and minds ! We both don't process visas. So my dear stiff upper lip friend, it is simply due to the self preservation instinct that the dhoti clad hindoo baniyaas are scouring your press. No offence was meant to the great nation of the Qaid etc. Wouldn't be bothered if you could hold your non state actors in place and if you could really mean no harm. But , really sopeaking, what can YOu do? You guys can't even control/form a decent govt, and blame everything on conspiracies by everyone else. So let's just leave it at that. We shall keep checking the press and finding our own meaning. Ignore us. Best wishes.
Majad Khan
May 24, 2012 01:47pm
Ali, it is interesting that you use your sheer size (10 times more population) relative to us in order to explain why it is taking you longer to eradicate poverty....yet your countrymen fail to use the same logic to explain the growth of their total GDP as compared to us...I remember that a certain Mr. Mani Shanker Aiyer (MSA)whose writngs were featured in Dawn a few months back mentioned that many indians for the past decade think that Pak is about to go bankrupt or it's economy is about to fail etc...but he said that Pak economy is much more resiliant than many Indians think..... Also Ali, just because the Indian political system puts up a few "token" muslim lawmakers in various government posts does not mean that they see muslim citizens as equal....again to quote from MSA's writings he mentioned discussing the peace efforts between the true countries with a fellow indian diplomat and whether he thinks it will work etc....you know how that other Indian diplomat responded?? he simply turned around and said "oh, their muslims, how can you trust them!"
Majad Khan
May 24, 2012 01:59pm
Nor Pak people or its government hate India, with regards to hatred....please go and spend some time on esteemed and hugely popular national newspapers such as TOI and Hindustan times to name a few....my they even have a whole web section dedicated to what is going on in Pak etc....talk about obesession!! also do visit the talk pages on issues related to Pak, even stories about Indian muslims are not spared hate comments....(I apologise to DAWN for the cheap publicity I am offering TOI/Hindustan times....LOL)
Majad Khan
May 24, 2012 02:01pm
and yes, your country is full of objective and rational people...........
Majad Khan
May 24, 2012 02:13pm
Alex, Can India guarentee that people in trains like Samjohta express can move through it's land safely without it being bombed?? Can India guarentee muslims can live in peace in the towns and villages of Gujarat?? Can India guarentee that muslim women/girls will not be raped in Gujarat?? Can India guarentee Christian missionaries in Orissa will not be burned to death?? Can India guarentee that low caste Dalit women will not be raped by high caste men?? Can India guarentee that low caste men in indian villages will not be beaten or murdered by high caste men?? No goverment/country can always guarentee100% security,
Majad Khan
May 24, 2012 02:27pm
you may have a point, but it still makes the offering of MFN, an empty gesture..
Aamir
May 24, 2012 06:28pm
Dear Jafar, We come to read dawn, and to read about pakistan, and NOT go to Bangladesh or Sri Lankan News because Bangladesh and SriLankans did not send 26/11 terrorists to india or did Indian parliament attacks. Bangladesh did not do Kargil. Bangladesh is not hiding Hafiz Sayed. Have some broader picture in mind and use some common sense while asking questions. Pakistan is not IMPORTANT for india for its Economy or Social factors. Pakistan is interesting because we want to learn what we INDIANS should not do in our Political or Social space.
Indian of course
May 24, 2012 06:43pm
Hiding behind the facade of Caste violence in india or NAxalism won't help pakistan in any way. Caste violence in india is on decline and lower castes have been given 50% reservations in indian Government jobs and Parliamentary seats. let me tell you what it means: It means a so called untouchable or backward caste (including Muslim backwards) has a confirmed more than 50% chance to become the IAS/IPS/IFS/Inspector/Chief secretary etc. of India. It also means that more than 50% of indian parliamentary seats will always be held by Hindu and Muslim backwards. Do you even realize what it means? The truth is... they are ruling india. DO not be swayed away by false blabbering of hate mongers. The biggest state of India (UP) had a Dalit Woman chief Minister for last 5 years, just 3 months back. And she is now replaced by a Shudra for next 5 years, by a completely FREE and FAIR democratic election. What BRAHMIN core are you talking about? The only Brahman core that binds India is the essence of Hindu religion that is its Tolerance towards other religion and castes. Do not go by what BJP says. I know it would be very hard for you to understand this way of thinking because it is directly opposite to what you call as "Idea of Pakistan". Please give me facts about what kind of Land reforms happened in Pakistan to uplift the backward class muslims? How much reservations do backward muslim castes have in Pakistan? How many seats in Parliament are reserved for Lower caste Muslims? Please do not say that there are no casteism in Islam. Allah knows the truth.....
adil
May 24, 2012 06:49pm
Raw Nerve by writing Blatant lies? carry on.....
Rizaw
May 24, 2012 06:52pm
Economic growth is never EVEN in the short run. Read economics to understand this. First some people benefit in the initial years, then the foods of growth trickle down to middle class and then to poor people. At least India is on the way to economic progress and can have a future. Pakistan seems to be going in exactly opposite direction.
Rizaw
May 24, 2012 06:53pm
Dream on.... like last 65 years
Rizaw
May 24, 2012 07:02pm
China keeps its 2.2 million army out of 2.4 million on active duty, for the fear of unrest. They employ these soldiers on active duty inside towns and cities of China. Except Kashmir and North-east, Indian army is not on active duty anywhere in India. At least 6 Lakh Indian Army is not on active duty at any given time. Do you even know what it means? In India people may sleep on footpaths but they decide the future of governments in democratic elections. You have to understand this basic difference. China is totally dependent on foreign trade and this will be its downfall in very near future. India has its own stable internal market, whatever condition it is in.Please don't lie that no one in pakistan sleep on footpaths. YOu NEED Footpaths to sleep on them. I wonder if Pakistan even have them except in few cities.I can not believe that the landless poor of pakistan can have a better life than a land owning poor from india. Lies won't improve anything for Pakistanis.
Rizaw
May 24, 2012 07:07pm
At least we quote real figures of poor people in india. Can you say the same about Pakistani government data about poors? I can not believe that land less poor of pakistan, who work as BANDHUA mazdoor of zagirdaars are in any way not poorer than the land owning poor of indian villages. One needs to compare apples to apple. In india we have NAREGA program where every poor in villages have confirmed 100 days of work from governments. Do you even think of something like this happening in pakistan in even next 20-25 years?
Mohammed S Khan
Jun 06, 2012 12:57am
The reading of the article shows that the author has written it with open mindedness. But the comments posted on the article by the Indians depict their own idiosyncratic approach towards Pakistan. They still live in the era surrounded by their own subjectivism.
Pavas
May 26, 2012 09:25am
Wow!! An ultimate question!! Dear Sir, have you ever seen the World Map?? If you try to find out locations of India,Pakistan, Afghanistan and Turkmenistan, then you'll see that Turkmenistan and India don't share any border. Any pipeline from Turkmenistan to India will have to pass through Pakistan.. Link for Asian map is given for your reference ( http://maps.google.co.in/maps?hl=en&q=ASIA&am... )..[:)] Apart from that this pipeline is not any bilateral agreement between Turkmenistan and India. It has four partner countries including Turkmenistan (T), Afghanistan (A), Pakistan (P) and India (I). I accept the fact that this project can benefit India (in fact all the 4 partner countries) a lot.. Kindly don't deny the facts that pipeline is very much important to your energy starved country (given daily outage reports in your "metro" cities like Lahore and Karachi and closure of many industries due to power shortages) and you alone can't afford to build this 7.5 Billion dollar project ..Pakistan also tried hard to include India in IPI (Iran-Pakistan-India) pipeline. After Indian pullout from this project Pakistan couldn't fund this $1.5 Billion project and tried to convince China and Russia hard for this project..Only after getting denial from both the countries Pakistan had to accept TAPI.. So, Sir before to make any comments on international issues I will strongly suggest you to kindly go through the facts once..
Vigilant
May 28, 2012 03:50pm
After seeing the "Comments War" by indians i don't think peace is possible in next 100 years.