Dawn News

Jean David Levitte
One of the cables said that French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s Diplomatic Adviser, Jean-David Levitte, asserted that “the Pakistani army is well regarded by the Pakistani people when not in power, but that it fails when in power.” He was also “more pessimistic” than the US about Pakistan, noting that the country has “chosen Islamicisation for generation after generation” leading to a now “transformed society.” - Photo by Reuters (Thumbnail illustration by Hasaan Haider/Dawn.com)

KARACHI: Pakistan remains “an army in search of a country,” according to French President Nicolas Sarkozy’s Diplomatic Adviser. The condescending characterisation, made to former US Ambassador Richard Holbrooke and US Ambassador to France, Charles Rivkin, is contained in a previously unpublished secret US diplomatic cable dated September 3, 2009 accessed by Dawn through WikiLeaks.

The French adviser, Jean-David Levitte, described as “a National Security Adviser equivalent and Holbrooke’s former counterpart at the UN”, is considered by the US Embassy in Paris to be “one of the most important and influential voices within the GOF [Government of France] on national security policy.”

While most of the secret American diplomatic cables obviously focus on American perceptions of Pakistan, some of the documents also reveal telling bits of information about how representatives of other friendly states, particularly other allies of the US government and Pakistan, view this country.

In the meeting with Holbrooke and Rivkin, which took place on August 31, 2009, Levitte also asserted that “the Pakistani army is well regarded by the Pakistani people when not in power, but that it fails when in power.” He was also “more pessimistic” than the US about Pakistan, noting that the country has “chosen Islamicisation for generation after generation” leading to a now “transformed society.”

In another cable dated January 22, 2010, Jasmine Zernini, head of the French government’s interagency Afghanistan-Pakistan cell, told American officials that although General Kayani had “learned the lesson of Musharraf” and was staying behind the scenes, she felt he was (according to the cable) “manipulating the government and parliament, including to prevent change on Pakistan’s policy towards…FATA along the Afghan border, and also to stir up controversy regarding the Kerry-Lugar bill.”

In another cable (dated September 22, 2009) detailing meetings between officials from the American and British governments, Jon Day, the Director General for Security Policy in the Ministry of Defence, noted that “recent intelligence” indicated that Pakistan was “not going in a good direction.” He also asked visiting US Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security, Ellen Tauscher, “if the US would be ‘obliged’ to cut relations with Pakistan if the military took over again.” Day also inquired about US perspective on Nawaz Sharif “whom he described as ‘potentially less venal’ than other Pakistani leaders.” Previously published cables have already revealed what opinion Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed and Saudi King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz held of President Zardari and Mr. Sharif.

In the same cable, Mariot Leslie, the Director General, Defence and Intelligence of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office of the British government expresses satisfaction that China had “dumped” Pakistan in the Conference on Disarmament which in her opinion was a “good sign.”

The dismissive attitude towards Pakistan is, however, not limited to Western governments. In a cable dated December 21, 2009, Egyptian Defence Minister Mohamed Hussein Tantawi told US Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair that Egypt encountered the same suspicions from Pakistan as the US did. Pakistanis, he said, “don’t trust Egyptians either.” He went on to say that “while the Pakistanis were ‘difficult’… Egypt was still trying to ‘work with them.’” According to the cable, Mr Tantawi, who has previously served as the Egyptian Defence Attache to Pakistan, also pointedly noted that “any country where the military became engaged in ‘internal affairs’ was ‘doomed to have lots of problems.’”

The assessment by other friendly states of Pakistan’s role in Afghanistan is also indicative of the perceptions — whether grounded in reality or not — that Pakistan must contend with. In a secret cable dated January 23, 2010, a senior Saudi intelligence official is quoted as telling a US official that “the SAG [Saudi Arabian government] viewed the Afghan Taliban as largely under the control of Pakistan” and that “the Afghan Taliban needed support to be able to become more independent of Pakistan.”

General Masudi, the head of internal affairs for the General Intelligence Presidency of Saudi Arabia told Barnett R. Rubin, the Special Adviser to Holbrooke that “outside powers, like Iran and Pakistan, had influenced the uneducated Afghans to believe that the US and the SAG were working against the Afghan people,” adding that “We have to convey the truth to this group.”

Gen Masudi also pointed out that the Saudi government was holding a number of Afghans in prison on charges of fundraising for the Taliban and speculated that “perhaps these prisoners could be used as bargaining chips in political talks.”

Gen Masudi while being sympathetic to Pakistan’s concerns regarding Afghanistan also cautioned that it was important to “reassure Pakistan that any activities conducted wouldn’t harm its interests, otherwise there might be a backlash.” He also explained Pakistan’s unease over developments in Afghanistan by saying that “the Pakistanis felt that they deserved to have a big part in Afghanistan,” according to the cable. “They wanted to be ‘the closest friend’ and were offended when they thought Iran or India were taking this role.”

The concern over Pakistan’s nuclear weapons programme is, of course, a recurrent theme in many countries’ representatives conversations with US diplomats. According to the cable referenced earlier, for example, Mr Levitte, the French adviser to President Sarkozy, told the Americans that the French government was “not sure that the Pakistani nuclear deterrent is secure,” especially “with the frequent movement of nuclear weapons by the Pakistani military.” The French, he said, would provide technical assistance to Pakistan on issues of nuclear safety but “he firmly stated that the GOF would not supply nuclear energy technology.”

Cables referenced: WikiLeaks #223496, 245077, 217654, 226331, 245018, 240923


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Comments (77) Closed



Ahmed
May 28, 2011 05:50am
"Success has 100 parents, failure is an orphan" when Pakistans economy was booming from 1950s-1980s these same countries lined up to be friends of Pakistan.Today we face many challenges, once we resolve them they will all come coming back btw no where in this article is India mentioned although I expect a number of Indian newpapers to quote this article
ally
May 28, 2011 06:29am
these cables seem to be stretegically timed..makes you wonder doesnt it?and why is the army being dissed internationally..again makes you wonder
Muhammad Hanif
May 28, 2011 07:53am
An optimistic see's the half glass full and the pessimistic see's the same glass "half empty" Good news out of this? Pakistani's are patriotic. In our 60 years of history we might have learned one thing, how to protect Pakistan. Bad thing, we are too much dependent on other nations (including China) although China is and will be our best friend (NO DOUBT) but one thing is for sure, this world is for economic powers. So its time to put jeans and start hard work, we have a long way to go.... (I mentioned jeans because someone in U.S. put jeans on for couple of months without washing, Ooops you might feel strange in stomach but that's call cultural differences and this approch is environment friendly less water, soap, almost no time waste, no need to use dryer or sun light wastage e.t.c. and this way we can be more focused on work than cloths)
Noor Din Multani
May 28, 2011 08:46am
We continue to question US mistrust towards us. Has anyone of us thought of the fact that we housed and trained terrorists of various nationalities including ours who attached the US. We have poisoned our people with anit-US propaganda for generation after generation and at the same time begged for US. What kind of a friend who have been to American. What kind of friendship we have extended a country who has come to our aid at every step of the way when we faltered. The good image which the educated Pakistani diasphora has taken pains to build for half a century has been destroyed by terrorist educated in the medressa of the maulvees of Pakistan. The entire world controls their religious bigots except Pakistan. To make a good friend you have to be a good, honest and decent friend first. All of these attributes we have lacked for generation. Look into your own actions of the past before you blame a tested friend.
ali chouhdry
May 28, 2011 08:55am
You need a friend like Pakistan who shelters your enemies and hates your values and citizens.
Jonny
May 28, 2011 09:13am
Imagine a world where Pakistan didn't get involved in Afghan war and kept away from it. There wouldn't be any Afghan refugees in Pakistan. There won't be any weapons, drugs dispersion throughout our society. We don't allow Afghan Transit Trade - which has destroyed our industry and businesses by allowing massive amounts of smuggled goods in to our country and also robbed us of precious Customs revenue. We won't have to beg, we won't have to face terrorist on our streets, we won't have to keep such large army, we won't have to deal with sinister schemes, we won't have to face insurgencies, we won't have to have drones hovering over us unchecked killing whoever they deem fit for death. Imagine that!
Brijesh
May 28, 2011 09:13am
Sad really. I hope the people of Pakistan read this and judge for themselves where their leaders (Military, Ministers and the Mullahs) have taken them today.
Wasif
May 28, 2011 10:20am
What is the source /authenticity of these leaks..
ravi
May 28, 2011 10:29am
All Known Facts !!!!......
J.P. Singha
May 28, 2011 10:51am
When all the leaders of the world are worrying about Pakistan only our leaders are either sleeping or fighting over the left overs of "Men in Uniform"
khan
May 28, 2011 11:12am
So the Egyptian minister was lecturing about role of military in internal affairs, how ironic. Did he actually know that he himself was from Egypt or he was pretending to be an American? . One thing is common in these cables, statements from all these so called friendly countries especially the arabs, are very obvious attempts to please Americans. Its boot licking , nothing else.
P N Eswaran
May 28, 2011 12:26pm
You don't need to access the secret cables to know this. It is an open knowledge how the west, Saudi and Egyptians perceive Pakistan.
Irfan Husain
May 28, 2011 02:34pm
Sad, but unsurprising, views about Pakistan. Alas, we have attained pariah status around the world.
nb
May 28, 2011 03:25pm
I am adding a point widely discussed outside Pakistan. Pakistan has wasted money on atom bomb. They will be prevented from using it because a nuclear winter is unwanted by all. On the other hand, it has attracted all global terrorists to make Pakistan their headquarter. They hope to grab a few of them and drop on “enemies of Islam”. Availability of required infrastructure and likeminded people has been their additional attraction. People have also noted that Pakistan could make the bomb but needed $100 million aid to provide security to the bombs!
ADITYA
May 28, 2011 04:33pm
What a joke..the Saudis are the worst at meddling in Pakistan. They dont DO anything but Pay people to do it..100 million wrth of wahhabism extremism islamist madrassahs suicide bombers weapons smuggling..This is pakistans friend.
Siraj Ahsan
May 28, 2011 05:50pm
It is an eye opener for Pakistanis but hey... have they ever opened their eyes are realised? NEVER!
Afan Khan
May 28, 2011 05:58pm
Egypt is not a friendly country, lets not forget that they shut the Suez Canal back in 1965 and 1971. And neither is S Arabia.
Salotti
May 28, 2011 06:23pm
The world community apparently finds Pakistan untrustworthy. The Americans especially have found out first hand that Pakistan plays a double game. A government that privately cultivates terrorism while publicly denouncing it is to be avoided. Pakistan now has their friend China, but they must remember that China does not give aid or handouts to anyone.
Azhar Hussain
May 28, 2011 07:11pm
According to the cable, Mr Tantawi, who has previously served as the Egyptian Defence Attache to Pakistan, also pointedly noted that “any country where the military became engaged in ‘internal affairs’ was ‘doomed to have lots of problems.’” Have we reached this low that an Eygptian making such comment. Yeh I am talking about Egypt who's leaders sold out at Camp David and helped created a big prison called Gaza for the Palestinians. Egypt the same country which has been subsidized by the US goverment after the sell out. At the same time shame on our civilian and military leadership for bringing us to this point. I hope against hope these guys are reading our comments.
Sobriquet
May 28, 2011 07:20pm
No country has ever achieved its political objectives by fostering a culture of hate, violence and deceit. So it is about time that Pakistanis try the alternative: of being friendly, non-violent and trustworthy.
AKWazir
May 28, 2011 07:28pm
DAWN :Thanks for publishing Wikileaks reports. No wonder someone remarked, PAKISTAN, IS IT A COUNTRY OR A SPACE. Fig leaf democracy of Zardari keeps going without any accountability. A nation that is dormant, lifeless.
third_party
May 28, 2011 07:43pm
Looks like China is waiting for US to leave Pak. US out, china in.
ali
May 28, 2011 09:38pm
hope this is an eye opener for pakistani authorities & it's people, not to mention isi & the army...
Shab
May 28, 2011 10:00pm
"Gen Masudi also pointed out that the Saudi government was holding a number of Afghans in prison on charges of fundraising for the Taliban and speculated that “perhaps these prisoners could be used as bargaining chips in political talks.” This comment should truly be awarded as joke of the day. Saudi Arabia and talking about Taliban, the real creators and sponsors of this organization. The Egyptian comments don't hold any standing too since they are just another puppet of the US Govt.
anuj
May 28, 2011 10:20pm
the problem with current pakistan is that it is not what the great l;eader mr. jinnah had dreamed off. Mr Jinnah and the leaders of that era were visionary, highly educated and determined to suceed. Post their demise, the generations of pakistan were not of that calibre. Due to this gap, a democratic nationed looked to its armed forces for support. BIGGST MISTAKE. Noarmed forces can every run a country sucessfully. ARMED FORCES are trained to PROTECT AND DEFEND, NOT GOVERN.I am in INDIAN and i feel pain to see what is happening on the other side of the border. Pakistanis and indians were one sub continent for thousands of years till the partition. The problem i see is that there is big big words, but do pakistanis really care for their countery or has every pakistani only thinks for himself...is the mentality of " let me worry about me, someone else will worry about country or Who Cares" in every pakistani. WAKE UP BROTHERS AND SISTERS, the wrld will eat you alive if u dont wake up. What pakistan needs the SAME NON VIOLENT CIVIL MOVEMENT AND MR JINNAH, GANDHI NEHRU DID TO OUST THE BRITISH, BUT THIS TIME NOT FROM AMERICAN OR BRITISH , BUT AGAINST YOUR INEFFECTIVE , STUPID, NONSENSE POLITICIANS AND YOUR MONEY-POWER HUNGRY ARMY GENERALS. THEN PUT A GOVERNMENT MADE OF EDUCATED UNIVERSITY GRADUATES AND GIVE THEM CHARGE OF ARMED FORCES TO CLEAR EVERY SINGLE CROOK, THIEF, MILITANT ONE BY ONE. SIMULTANEOUSLY FOCUS ON ECONOMY.
Blognostic
May 28, 2011 10:53pm
After Osama operation, most are ready to say these in the open itself.
Asad
May 28, 2011 11:33pm
Well, there are two opposite feelings I have about what others say reference Pakistan - one, so what if people say what they say. Two, simultaneously I get the other feeling that what others say is in fact correct. We have made our country a basket case barreling down the road to nowhere. Our education is nil to nothing. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Our law and order situation is such that no one would want to visit Pakistan, even the non-resident overseas Pakistani's think twice before planning a trip with all the bombs blowing up. Corruption in government, mismanagement and incompetence rampant in all aspect of our governance, religious extremist scaring people into submission - who would like this place? What have become of us? All we do is blame others for our ills. I bleed green for my country but I feel my country is sick, the fabric of society is coming apart and we are at the brink of final destruction. I dont care what others say about Pakistan but in my heart, I am so down and out on my country and my fellow country men. What will it take, who will be our saviour, when will we learn to be better people? I am so sad.
paatchu
May 28, 2011 11:48pm
according to the cable. “They wanted to be ‘the closest friend’ and were offended when they thought Iran or India were taking this role.” Ha..ha..haa....Everyday when bombs are being blown and thousands of people die everyday in pakistan....Which kind role Pakistan is trying to buils??..eh?
Alex Mahon
May 29, 2011 01:08am
The funniest are the comments by the Egyptian Defence Minister Mohamed Hussein Tantawi...he should have looked into his backyard first...a police state with a President who was an ex-Armed forces guy. He had no moral authority... While General Masudi, angry at only being left out, may not have heard the idiom, "chickens come home to roost"
zia
May 29, 2011 02:27am
it is a fact that pakistan`s situation is quite devastating and it did not start with USSR`s invasion of Afghanistan but unfortunately both Saudi arabia and USA used Pakistan as their base to mess with Afghanistan and helping create a terrorist heaven in Pakistan.I am surprised why we all have such a poor memory and forget the history.All these supposedly democratic countries over the years have helped imposing corrupt leaders of their own choice on Pakistan.Yes indeed we still have time ,including pakistani politicians,military and international governments to work together honestly to eliminate threat of terrorism and put pakistan on path to prosperity and religion out of governance
sultan
May 29, 2011 02:41am
Yes, its a classic case of the kettle calling the pot black.....
zafar Ali
May 29, 2011 02:45am
One thing is clear to me from these leaks that people tell US officials what they want to listen. Bad thing about this is that US does not get real and honest picture of the situation. Pakistani politicians are selfish no doubt but this has put America in a quagmire, which they find them self hard to get out.
sultan
May 29, 2011 02:59am
I do not see these comments as very negative or surprising. These comments are made in a context - we do not have the context presented to us. The French are more or less ignorant of Pakistan, have very little influence or contacts as opposed to the British, Americans and Chinese. They feel they need to have an opinion but they are second division in the region. Saudi and Egyptian comments seem to be made to please their US master. I'm sure Pakistani comments concerning their "friends" when they are trying to get into the good books of their master. No harm done.
Ali Khan
May 29, 2011 03:26am
As you sow, so shall you reap.
Aqib Shah
May 29, 2011 04:45am
@anuj: Y don't u start the revolution in ur country before u go out giving advice abt it.
Syed
May 29, 2011 06:44am
so where did we spent the 20 or so billion dollars US says it has given to Pakistan in the past decade? anyone?
Syed Karim
May 29, 2011 06:48am
The problem with Pakistan is the people of Pakistan. I know these people; I grew among them in the former East Pakistan and I now live among them in the United States. Pakistanis are intolerant, spiteful, and malicious. As long as the people do not change, the state of Pakistan will continue to slide into disarray and mayhem.
Ashfaq
May 29, 2011 09:30am
I agree whole heartedly with Aditya that Saudi Arabia has caused the Whabism extremism in Pakistan. General Zia carried out those instructions from the Saudi Government and now the country is gripped with intolerant extremist.
Adeel Sarfraz
May 29, 2011 09:32am
The army should never have gotten involved in money matters. When a soldier tastes the life of luxury and status then you will not get them to fight. When a general arrives in a Rs. 20 million Mercedes car how do you expect him to get into a jeep or tank and lead his troops on the ground? Soldiers have been offered over Rs.100,000 (more than 5 times of their take home salaries) just to make them go and fight in Swat and Waziristan. If you need to give a soldier an incentive to fight then you may just as well roll over and play dead to the terrorists. Today the army's incompetence has allowed every tom and jerry to point fingers at our country. Our country has lost so many people and soldiers yet the world feels we are playing a double game.
Narayanan
May 29, 2011 10:48am
Is this how Jinnah wanted pakistan to look like? Pakistan has obsessive compulsive disorder . Wish Pakistan opens its eyes and sees where it is standinh.............
Ahmed
May 29, 2011 11:39am
Good comments from Sultan. Most of the so called "leaks" are without contexts. For example in case of Saudi comments, when you connect the dots, its clear they understand and support Pakistan point of view.
Asad
May 29, 2011 12:19pm
Its funny how wikeleaks would only reveal things USA wants to reveal. Any leaks about Dr. Aafia or Mr. Davis?
Sheel
May 29, 2011 01:15pm
Hi, as per what Mr.Anuj is describing here is nothing like show-off and is purely country specific. And as far as Indian Republic goes then we have all mixed bag of rights and no-rights. It's upto Pakistani Republic to think which way they want to go; Islamic way like that of Iran or Gulf countries or Democratic Way like that of India or Indonesia.
sunil
May 29, 2011 01:25pm
wake up bro,,, these are logs of much before davis arrrest so its obvious that it doesn;t contain any info about that.. also stop blaming other countries for your problems ,..
iqbal
May 29, 2011 01:39pm
Mr Anuj has given a very good and logical advice to us ...
mir jafar
May 29, 2011 01:59pm
to add to Aditya's point,I can clearly state that no one in this cruel world becomes your friend if he finds that you are not worth of it.Why should we talk of friendship from china,saudi or another country when our own men have become foe against us.
Rienz
May 29, 2011 02:02pm
Dear Mr. Ahmed, I agree with your statments that "failure is an orphan" but have you ever invested your hard earned money in share market on a company that has been performing poorly? if you don't, why should any other country willing to bet on pakistan? People invested in pakistan during 1950-1980's because we were a success story but we are now a risky state both economically and socially with bomb blasts every single day...so why should anyone willing to invest with us? Another thing, why are we always fixated with inida and what indian media has to say about us...let them say what they want, we need to concentrate on our nation to be strong and presperous, not on what india thinks or says about us...let us stop this silly india fixation. Our standard is not India, our standard/goal should be as prosperous as China or any other developed county.
Rick
May 29, 2011 02:08pm
I have just recently discovered the Pakistan Newspaper in English. I crave knowledge from a variety of sources. I took a vacation with my brother to Kenya. I met people with understanding of various conflicts. They suggested that I spend some time in Egypt. I did this on my own and felt that I was learning "from the people". I enjoyed my time there. Taxi drivers have a huge impact on what you see and what you learn. I am craving an opportunity to learn and help people in this part of the world. Me: Health Care Provider, Masters degree in Administration, not Government employee. Passport in hand! US citizen, open mind, desires to talk with people honestly.
Rick
May 29, 2011 02:29pm
i appreciated reading your comments. You seem to be experiencing PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Many of our military suffer from this upon return from various conflicts. There is professional help to deal with this, but it is not always available for all that need it. I hope you search out the resources you need to manage your condition. Depression is not easy. But can be treated successfully. Medications are a part of the treatment, but so is professional guidance. I wish you nothing but the best! Continue to share your thoughts & feelings, this is therapeutic.
Rick
May 29, 2011 02:46pm
I am very new to this amazingly open site. Sorry to say this, but I don't know if the typical writter is male or female (name vs Gender not clear to me). I'm US citizen, traveled in Europe, Kenya, and Egypt. Ahmed, you have a very clear head, and your thinking is superior. Again, I am new to this Pakistan Newspaper (English Edition). I appreciate the "give & take" and I am starting at the back of the class.
Ehsan
May 29, 2011 02:48pm
Rick, you are welcome to learn more about Pakistan if u come with open mind. Try to understand Pakistan's perspective and then make up your mind.
Muhammad
May 29, 2011 02:54pm
Dear Asad, It is already too late please come out these conspiracy theories muslim world has already five centuries debating these conspiracy theroies we should now act rather react. As regards, wikileaks if there was anything in favour of USA then why are the after Julian Asange? It is better to clean our home first rather blaming every wrong on others.
A Paki in Paris
May 29, 2011 03:24pm
Zia..you have spoken like a good pakistani brother...All power to you and others like you who are still living in Pakistan..you are our source of hope..that one day we can feel happy about Pakistan and earn the respect of countries like US, India,UK, France...and rest of the democratic world..
Umar
May 29, 2011 04:15pm
@Rienz. I completely agree with Rienz. W.e should stop caring about what other people have to say about us and get our own house in order. Starting with education, tolerance and patience. All this will not happpen in a day.
Michael Schofield
May 29, 2011 04:19pm
Well said Alex !
vik
May 29, 2011 04:41pm
Third_Party...sorry I cant stop laughing and thinking you are absolutely right...its funny but will be true!!
aqib
May 29, 2011 05:28pm
actions speaks louder then words these Hillary is also worried about so called conspiracy as they want to fool the world they dont want people to talk about their intentions. where are weapons of mass destruction, what about 9 11 open inquiry.
aqib
May 29, 2011 05:32pm
umar you are right but first thing is survival. we are compromising our security. and our so called friends does not trus us any more as kerry came to pakistan to collect the rackadge of destroyed helicopter. and they will nit surely give you these planes any more
Aindian
May 29, 2011 06:06pm
Dude, Good to see open minded pakis.
Asad
May 29, 2011 06:12pm
dear sunil, first, if you read my post i did not blame any country for our problems. second, you are talking about davis' recent episode, the guys has been in our county for years, third, i hope you know that dr. afia did not disappear last week!
An indian
May 29, 2011 06:14pm
You are so right never thought that way. Well said
mashmond
May 29, 2011 06:15pm
Our country is already the laughing stock of the world (and I am not just talking about the west) - we need to grow up and stop blaming the rest of the world for our problems. Mr Davies done us a favour by killing those 2 armed criminals - it could have been your sister or mother they were trying to rob. And just like all our citizens the relatives were bought with blood money payed by the USA - remember every Paki has a price for which he can be bought (especially the mullahs)
Asad
May 29, 2011 06:19pm
Dear Muhammad Thanks for the reply. However, what I read is often, our leaders did this, did that, Saudia said this, Egypt said that, our army did this and that. Gives the impression that things are being said to widen the gap among us. Do you really think there is not a single leak about 911 conspiracy, or about the plans to invade Afghanistan or Iraq?
An indian
May 29, 2011 06:19pm
Take whatw is good my friend. An Indian is not going to solve ur problem. Unfortunately, you are in a situation that everybody can give your a suggestion!!!! See what you can do best to get yourself on track. Good luck. An Indian.
An indian
May 29, 2011 06:21pm
What is your point about china?
Avanti
May 29, 2011 06:29pm
For outsiders like me, Pakistani people seem very rational who understand and ground reality. Based on this, I can say that the country will come out of this mess very fast. But then, I am an outsider and my views are dependent on the English speaking educated people who express their sane opinion through columns such as these. What about the other majority who listens to the Mullahs and think that if anything wrong then it must be with the others; that we are just perfect. How do you fix that problem?
Kalyan
May 29, 2011 06:57pm
China ur best friend...ha....China can never be ur friend and infact they are using u against India, exactly the same way how other countries like Saudi or USA did with you. China is a country where there is no Human rights and believe me they cann't be anyone's friends. I don't understand why u people hate India so much, why u people r so rigid about religion. You probably forgot one thing that we all i.e. India/Pakistan/Bangladesh are from same root and way way back we all were so called Hindus, people from Middle east came to India....we were not united...they beat us, lots of people changed their relgion, they Pakistan formed ans suddenly u think ur root r from Saudi and u became Anti Indian...How foolish it is. Instead of hating India, just have good relations and believe me u don't need to spend so much on Army...missile system etc...just be friend with India..
Kalyan
May 29, 2011 07:04pm
China ur standard...ha...the copy & paste country...first do 1/4th what India did...then set ur standard like USA...China with no human rights...no voice of Media... Once u people did mistake by becaming friend of USA & SAUDI...now again u r doing the same mistake be getting close to China...just think why they will help u to prosper....
blogbuster
May 29, 2011 07:49pm
hi i am from india, from south to be more precise, and let me say categorically that a lot of Indians do not think that Pakistanis and Indians were the same people at any point of time in the history. Indians across the breadth and length of the vast nation do not share same cultures and traditions only thing indian about indians is being Indian that being our faith in a democratic system, living in harmony and treating other cultures, languages and traditions with at least tolerance if not with respect. the reason i said this is to drive home a point that we are not obsessed with Pakistan collapsing. People of India do not wish to invade Pakistan and posess its lands. We have enough issues already with as many people as we do have now. we do not wish to add 180 million more issues. we want a stable neighborhood so we can grow unabated and succeed and take our rightful place in the world order. if we had coveted foreign lands we could have done so when Bangladesh was liberated or amalgamated Bhutan which is basically a client state of India or could have invaded Srilanka and liberated Tamil areas in the north and would have annexed it into India. so I think pakistanis need to snap out of this notion of defining their country merely as 'not-India' and discover themselves. that will do the most good to your people
Mohsin
May 29, 2011 07:49pm
This nation is bound to self-destruct. You don't need secret cables to tell you what's wrong in this country. And i am saying nation here not country. The country has already been destroyed. End the misery of a few good and honest people left in this country. They are being punished for their inherent goodness by a majority of corrupt people. It is disgusting to see how nepotism has been embedded into the system. We educate ourselves to reach a point where we can contribute the society. In order to get a job or do anything in this country, your education or expertise is not important rather good connections decide your destiny. No wonder we are where we are, a laughing stock in the comity of nations. What's more we get to blame everyone else except ourselves.
usman
May 29, 2011 07:55pm
you are very right, they(Egypt) took money deal from US to be paid every year to secure Israel and send our pilots with planes back who were shooting down Israelis.infact 3 pilots shot down 9 Israeli jets in 1 day and 10 were on the way to destroy them. I am new on this page but feel that some have sense and some just talking,our soldiers are not paid 100000 rupees as their salary, not even COLONEL and secondly no General ever get into war sitting in tank but only command them from head quaters. they always prctise so never sit Idol and also living in montains and villages and also on the glaciers wont make them lazy. every country is run by their Army but difference in Pakistan is Army has to come in front and reason was always our politicians having corruption and incompetence. this dont mean that Army has no corrupt people. if i give you a example why obama or Clinton dont make any statements wihout their Generals or show me in any meeting you wont see army Generals.recently David Cameron took few decision and were called back as Generals steped in like early retirement and less salaries etc Yes Pakistan was fighting US war against terror and of course guns may be US but shoulders and chest were Pakistanis and what you expect who will be fired back, of course Pakistan. also do not forget US had threatened us before Afghan war "WITH US OR WITHOUT US". sitting in their own home land and fighting their war on other countries shoulders is Western very old strategy, India is taking full advantage of blaming Pakistan as they never wanted Pakistan to grow (proof why they helped in 1971 bengalis from east Pakistan to Bangladesh) India was the best friend of USSR and wanted to join them by borders thats why USSR was in Afghanistan and if they capture Afghanistan next was Pkaistan,when they broke Indian find Israel and of course who run the west, Jewish and Israel who never want Pakistan or Iran in power. Advice. we must get together and thats sit, Pakistani soil still has educated and loving sons who love the mother land. In todays world no body is friend of Pakistan. France and England attack Libya as due to BP it wasnt USA war. fuuny. anything happen with West all west step into war but no muslim support eachother. Guys its not people or Pakistan is bad its you and me who have time to sit in UK and USA and have time to chat but DID ANY OF US DONE ANYTHING FOR PAKISTAN???????? ask urself and you will have the answer i am settled in UK, hundreds of people i know every body is just and just worried, Doctors,Engineers, Bankers,Businessman. no body has done anything but when it happen to Jews back in 1940 they did by support, moneywise, they went back to help and thats why they are here in strongest nation. WHEN ISRAEL TELL NO TO USA (on the widening and building of homes)(recently just 1 week before)THEN OBAMA SAY IT HAPPENS IN FRIENDS WHEN COME TO MUSLIM COUNTRY LIKE PAKISTAN THEN THREATS COME.FUNNY our memories are weak but enemies of Pakistan still memorise and want revenge. ISI is still the leading no 1 agency since yrs in top 10 world agencies with the lowest budget and this is stated by US Times in Newyork by recent survey and that is the reason we are giving hard times to CIA, MI6, Mossad and RAW.so they want to blacklist Army and ISI. simple Allah Bless Pakistan! Ameen
blogbuster
May 29, 2011 07:59pm
Nothing could be more absurd. Of all the world nations China's is the most materialistic foreign policy. I am surprised to see that there was no mention of China's foreign office spokeswoman's refuting the claim by Pakistan's defence secretary that China has agreed to operate the Gwadar port (impossible because Singapore govt operates it under a 40 year lease) and build a naval base there. besides China is not stupid to let go of $65Billion trade with India which is heavily skewed in its way just to appease Pakistan. Chinese only believe in keeping Pakistan on life support as long as possible because that would keep India pre-occupied while Chinese continue their dominance elsewhere in East Asia and South east asia. They dont believe in the notion of 'Best Friends'. Besides what is more abhorrent to the Islamic Pakistan than to call China, with a non-theocratic regime, and pakistan as one nation but two countries. it is saddening that 180 million people are being led by people who are emotionally driven.
usman
May 29, 2011 08:08pm
You are absolutely right, i must comment and now remember Allama Iqbal saying KHUD HI KO KAR BULAND ITNA K HAR TAQDEER SE PEHLE KHUDA BANDE SE KHUD POCHE K BOL TERI RAZA KYA HAI we must build our Pakistan, tell me who is with me
gradd
May 29, 2011 09:43pm
Dear brothers don,t blame poor pakistani fellows ,Terrorist from all over the world is coming here just as they came in Afghanistan against Sovets,this is new world order,a Chaos in Afghanistan,then pakistan and obviously toward india a potential future rival of oil in world theater,there is no natural ally,only allaince is if aval race or blood ,india and pakistan must not be fooled by outsiders to degrade each other,
Ahmed
May 30, 2011 02:19am
Truely said...Pakistan's problems started with the Afghan war which still continous and getting from bad to worse. I fail to understand why we dont get rid of these Afghans and other foriegn nationals hurting the country so badly.
richard
May 31, 2011 10:14pm
that is a sad and heartfelt commentary on your country. i made three trips to Peshawar in late 80's, early 90's; and feel that our government (US) left both Afghanistan and Pakistan in a very difficult position after the Soviets left. I have thought about returning many times, but the violence and distrust of foreigners in Pakistan have discouraged me. I agree that Quaid-I-Azam would be discouraged if he saw the current Pakistan, especially after the murder of the Asia times reporter
Natasha Suleman
Jun 07, 2011 09:10pm
Hilarious hypocritical stuff from Tantawi and Masudi.