FRANCESCO d’Ovidio, outgoing country director of ILO.—Fahim Siddiqi / White Star

THERE are many issues facing the labour of this country. Though some progress has been made in certain issues, there are also gaps remaining in others.

Dawn spoke to the outgoing country director of International Labour Organisation (ILO), Francesco d’Ovidio, who says he will be handing over his notes regarding the progress and work still to be done to his successor.

Q. According to a recent report brought out by the Pakistan Institute of Labour Education & Research, only one per cent of labour in Pakistan is unionised. What guarantees will workers have if the unions here are not allowed to operate?

A. Actually the bulk of Pakistan economy depends on the informal sector where the people don’t know how to unionise. There are difficulties to register the workers who don’t even have identity cards and all the necessary items for recognition of their employment.

Of course, social dialogue can help workers unite in the private sector. And federations such as the Pakistan Workers Federation and Employees Federation of Pakistan help generate such dialogue. They are the arbitrators and to make it simple, ILO works with the federations and not the unions directly, as the federations help educate unions and provide training to union leaders.

Things are improving as you also have the fisheries and the agriculture sectors which had never been unionised, but now we have seen some progress in these sectors also, as a few unions have been created. I hope it will have a snowball effect.

Q. How come bonded labour still exists here after being exposed by the media?

A. Bonded labour exists but there has been some progress there, too, because ILO has been able to make the government understand that bonded labour needs to stop. Though the issue needs to be discussed more, the government has taken an initiative in Punjab and spent around Rs60 billion to end bonded labour in all of its districts. The work being done there should also be spread to the other provinces. Work in this regard should be carried out after doing proper situation analysis in each province.

Q. Are there different labour issues specific to different provinces?

A. Yes, Punjab has more issues of bonded labour. Sindh has lack of occupational safety, lack of labour inspections and 65pc of the economy in Sindh depends on the informal sector. Also, 30pc youth in Sindh are neither getting education nor are they employed. That means one out of three, who are also targets for illegal activities. In Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, there is a lack of social protection for the vulnerable groups, which ILO has highlighted. In Balochistan, there are a lot of problems, one of which is lack of policies on labour and employment, making it difficult to indicate the direction the province is taking. Then they have child labour, too.

Q. Isn’t child labour seen everywhere in Pakistan?

A. No, child labour is diminishing in the formal sector. It has been abolished in soccer ball production, surgical instruments, the carpet industry, etc., though we are still facing difficulty regarding child labour in the agriculture sector.

Q. How is it that children work in the West but that isn’t taken as child labour?

A. The child labour we are talking about is the kind of work that will have children working for the entire day, when they have no access to education, no time to play. Also, there are some forms of labour that are hazardous and for that you have to be at least 18 to be working in that area.For other areas that are not hazardous, you can start work at 15 or after finishing compulsory education.

Q. How can the ILO help migrating labour?

A. We have a project for labour migration specific to those who migrate to the Gulf. We work in collaboration with the government for migration policies and also prepare the workers in soft skills and train and educate them so that they can get better jobs in better countries and are not exploited there.

Q. What can be done for home-based workers here?

A. Sometimes we just forget about the home-based workers because they are not so prominent. They need to be given guidelines about their rights. One of the guidelines is also to create unions in their ranks. This is already happening in Sindh though.

Q. Does the ILO give certification to factories after they meet certain requirements?

A. No. ILO doesn’t give certification. And international certification system doesn’t work. Certification for factories should be done locally, but sometimes this is done by an international certifying agency. There are no follow-up inspections and routine checks like what happened in the case of the Baldia factory, which had certification from Italy.

Published in Dawn, September 1st, 2015

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