Rape cases: CII says DNA data not acceptable as primary evidence
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ISLAMABAD: The Council of Islamic Ideology (CII) has declared that DNA test is not acceptable as primary evidence in cases of rape, but it could be used as a supporting evidence for confirmation of the crime.
A meeting of the CII, presided over by its chairman Maulana Mohammad Khan Sherani on Wednesday, also maintained that there was nothing wrong with the blasphemy law and it didn’t need amendment.
The meeting was of the view that Islam has set procedures to determine cases of rape and said Islamic procedure should be adopted during investigation.
It declared human cloning illegal because it is against Islam.
The CII directed the Higher Education Commission and other institutions to correct English translation of ‘Allah’, ‘Rasool’ and ‘Masjid’.
It said the usage of ‘Holy Book’ and ‘Holy Place’ was illegal.
The meeting expressed concern over changes made in the syllabus of Islamic Studies, especially in Punjab, and instructed the provincial government to include the deleted chapters/essays from the curriculum.
It instructed the Director General, Research, Mohammad Ilyas Khan who is also CII secretary, to send letters to all provinces and Gilgit-Baltistan asking them to ensure Islamic education in their syllabus.
The meeting ordered the authorities to look into the books being taught in educational institutions and rectify errors.
The council suggested dialogue to resolve the issue of ‘Ruet-i-Hilal’ (sighting of moon) due to which every year a dispute arises between religious scholars of Khyber Pakhtunkhawa and other provinces.
Maulana Mufti Ghulam Mustafa Rizvi, retired Justice Nazir Akhtar, retired Justice Mushtaq Ahmed, Dr Mohammad Idrees Soomro, Allama Iftikhar Hussain Naqvi, Saeed Ahmed Shah Gujrati, Maulana Hanif Jalandhari and others attended the meeting.
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On DawnNews
Comments (164) Closed
May 30, 2013 03:04am
Who is more authoritative in Pakistan: The Council of Islamic Ideology or the Supreme Court of Pakistan? With people like CII, you don't need enemies.
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May 30, 2013 03:06am
Director General of Science and Research of Pakistan is the secretary of The Council of Islamic Ideology. Who will save Pakistan?
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May 30, 2013 05:35am
And the sun revolves around the earth, I guess........
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May 30, 2013 05:58am
Who died and made them president. So we will need three eye witnesses to convict a rapist because DNA evidence is not good enough! Plus does anyone think the topics under discussion by this body are really relevant!
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May 30, 2013 06:23am
CII will keep us tied in centuries old customs in the name of religion, if they could. The good news is they can't ...
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May 30, 2013 06:31am
Why dont we get into a time machine and go back to the dark ages as well. Maybe its time we joined the rest of the world and incorporate modern thinking and mordern practices.
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May 30, 2013 06:33am
I don't like the decision of CII. Its thinking appears to be regressive and I mean no offense to the leadership of this body.
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May 30, 2013 06:46am
Masha Allah, what a 'stretegic' level decisions are being made in the CII.
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May 30, 2013 07:16am
In this age, these Mullahs are still living in the 8th Century. Wake up guys, please wake up......
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May 30, 2013 07:19am
Only one word, PATHETIC
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May 30, 2013 07:32am
Since the use of DNA will be inadmissible in court, the victim will now have to reply on divine help to seek justice. It would have been easier if the CII had simply said that justice to rape victimes shall be delivered on the Day of Judgment !!!!
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May 30, 2013 07:39am
The journalist should kindly explain the difference between primary and secondary evidence to the reader.
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May 30, 2013 07:46am
thank you for never winning the elections
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May 30, 2013 07:47am
Let us dissove this useless council who still wants to live in dark ages.
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May 30, 2013 07:47am
Another suggestion - Change the name of "Pakistan". 1. because there is no "P" in Arabic and 2. There can be no "Pak" place on the earth other than the Arab Peninsula..
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May 30, 2013 07:49am
An astute observation. And excellent decision. Such DNA can be 'stolen' and given to an accomplice and implanted as incriminating evidence else where, against someone, on some one. A number of such scenarios are possible and can be referenced. Collaborating evidence is an absolute for rape.
I have studied the nature of forensic evidence. Am in the know of such examples and precedence. Those who deny this wise decision need to study the subject.
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May 30, 2013 08:02am
Pathetic indeed. But you would not how much even if it stared back at you in the mirror.
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May 30, 2013 09:12am
Perhaps it is time to introduce some minimal educational qualifications for members of this august body.
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May 30, 2013 09:31am
Is it a joke? Who is by the way this gentleman (I can not immagine a woman having such a responsible position in Pakistan)? And, the last question: waht are aims and objectives of this "Science and Research of Pakistan" ?
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May 30, 2013 09:34am
It can't be the prime proof to prove "rape" Other things around should also be looked into, if used blindly ignoring other evidence can be missuded for blackmailing.
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May 30, 2013 09:41am
El Cid, my friend you are in the view that a rape victim should provide four male witnesses. Excellent. A rapist is going to invite to you watch whilst he commits such a heinous crime. Because you're in the know how. Also can you explain how can the DNA be incriminated when the sobs are taken internally. Islam is a progressive religion and allows you to adapt new ways. As it says in the holy Quran, Go out and observe my creation and learn from it. These mulahs need to catch up with the times.
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May 30, 2013 09:58am
Another reason for people to get educated. What do these people know about DNA?. Should they be deciding what can be used as evidence when they have no idea what science can do for us in this field.
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May 30, 2013 09:58am
Can somebody ask them why DNA result can not be a primary evidence?? What will be the reaction of CII about the DNA test to establish the Paternity dispute and to prove a woman as adutrous? Will these mullahas still say DNA test is not a valid or enough evidence?
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May 30, 2013 10:00am
Perhpas it will be useful to illustrate when and in which country injustice has been done due to DNA evidence. I believe you need to study the subject a bit more. Give me the name of one developed country please, where DNA can not be used as evidence.
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May 30, 2013 10:07am
We should do what Ataturk did, and round up all these backward maulvis and shove them onto a ship and sail them away never to return. Look where Turkey is today, and look at where the rest of the Muslim world with Mullahs is.
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May 30, 2013 10:12am
No DNA?
Ok, but what about internet or cars or medicines or electricity or ....
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May 30, 2013 10:16am
All the more reason to separate state from religion. We need to stop looking towards religion for definition in every walk of life.
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May 30, 2013 10:46am
Where did I say that DNA cannot be used as evidence? Comprehension problems?
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May 30, 2013 10:57am
They should be taken to west, of course on official tour, to a training session on the said issue.. DNA test was not available 1000 years ago.. Islam does not discourage advancement in science and its use. These people need improved cloning (but they have declared it as a sin!)
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May 30, 2013 10:59am
Where does the article say that
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May 30, 2013 11:48am
They are guardians of religion. Please refrain from questioning their centuries old intelligence which is sill living in that era.
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May 30, 2013 12:12pm
Forgive them Oh' Almighty for they know not what they are discussing. For them ignorance is bliss.
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May 30, 2013 12:27pm
Only in Pakistan would ignorance against advances in Health and Technology be seen. People over all over the world have been proved innocent or guilty thru DNA testing. I think these Maulvi's forget that in the bright days of Islam we were the world leaders of the sciences.
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May 30, 2013 12:33pm
What does it even mean when they say "against Islam" or "illegal"? When they use words like this, is it not coming clear that these men are not men of faith, but of power?
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May 30, 2013 12:40pm
DNA test, as an evidence, should be replaced by the opinion of a mullah (of the nearest mosque of the crime scene). I am sure that would be acceptable. :)
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May 30, 2013 12:40pm
Thus, Pakistan continues to run further backward. And poor woman further goes in distress.
These Mullahs never win in any election but are always there to create problem just because of the illiteracy of general public. I do not have prayers for this association. CII tends to produce another reason that people start thinking to migrate.
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May 30, 2013 12:40pm
If your DNA sample, hair or flake of skin is thrown from the plastic bag on the rape victim, just to teach you a lesson then you will run towards ISLAM and be in sujood whole night to beg Allah to save you from this forge implication.
Hence this cannot be the main evidence but supplement evidence
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May 30, 2013 12:42pm
I am sorry it is not maulvies fault......we need to fix our education system.....and answer to many of those problemis simple more schools.....more schools......more schools.....
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May 30, 2013 12:47pm
simply answer this, when a rape happens, will the women arrange 4 witness before her rape so that she can file a case????
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May 30, 2013 12:54pm
Of course! dna cannot be proof enough. Only 4 men, who watched the complete episode, and then has the audacity to come forward and tell the Qazi that they saw it, is proof enough.
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May 30, 2013 12:55pm
ignorance is not the enemy of knowledge but illusion of knowledge is the real enemy of knowledge.
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May 30, 2013 12:57pm
Who on earth is CII. Why are these bodies allowed to grow up? Holy Book is illegal!?
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May 30, 2013 01:03pm
Strip this CII of all the modern day amenities and give them a tent for an office. Take away their cars and give them camels to ride.
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May 30, 2013 01:19pm
The only unfortunate thing in this message is that the CII comprises of retired "Justices" . Only God can save Pakistan
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May 30, 2013 01:32pm
Even in the United States it is cannot be used as the primary or only source of evidence. Look at the broader aspect. It was not dismissed as an evidence or supporting evidence, it's just that it cannot be used as the primary evidence to convict a person.
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May 30, 2013 01:38pm
What makes so called developed countries to guide us or decide for us about our laws. I am a scientist and I can assure you DNA IS NOT ENOUGH TO PROVE RAPE.
It can be a mutual consent and simple adultery but one can claim is rape if DNA is to be considered primary evidence.
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May 30, 2013 01:38pm
Well in that case you need to come up with a modern way and quicker way to resolve Rape cases... you are going to have quite a lot more..
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May 30, 2013 01:45pm
False propaganda meme...but well spread.
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May 30, 2013 01:47pm
Rubbish..!
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May 30, 2013 01:54pm
We as Muslims have the obligation to learn our religion and only THEN comment on it. To know what the primary evidence is, we should ask Ulama or Muftees and, for a change, do some research too. Dawn can also improve by telling the whole story.
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May 30, 2013 01:56pm
No..!
What is your basis for such an absurd belief? Please cite a primary reference in support of such a serious allegation?
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May 30, 2013 02:12pm
HE just did...at least in this area. This criteria protects innocents against false charges, blackmail, and manipulation of evidence.
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May 30, 2013 02:13pm
You are as feeble minded as the people in the CII. Rational intellects question their beliefs and discard them if they are irrational or founded in dogma....That is what civilized societies do...Pakistan and most Islamic countries are no longer civilized societies and have slid further into their dark ages.......
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May 30, 2013 02:21pm
I am sure you are joking El Cid.... these 4 men must be spineless or accomplices as no Muslim can watch injustice to happen in front and not do anything.... GOD is JUST. This law of 4 men is Man Made to protect the rapists
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May 30, 2013 02:25pm
Very respectfully, Maulana Sherani, you lost me.
DNA is also created by Allah (swt) and so are its myriads of remarkable uses in human-invented health and forensic applications. If it can be used as a primary determinant of paternity testing, why should rape cases be an exception; it must be available as an investigative tool in parallel with other methods.
Denying latest technology a rightful place in Islam is akin to slighting the blessings of Allah (swt).
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May 30, 2013 02:31pm
"IQRA" was meant for the believers of Quran but CII is trying to change it to "LAA IQRA". Pakistan needs to have better educated scholars with some exposure to science as members of CII.
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May 30, 2013 02:37pm
If the new govt is serious about getting cost under control then eliminating the The Council of Islamic Ideology should be an easy decision.
It's the 21st century and DNA technology is a proven science which should be embraced. Shame on the The Council of Islamic Ideology - just more anecdotal evidence that Muslim's don't provide equal rights to women.
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May 30, 2013 02:41pm
Primary evidence means that the decision is made based mainly on the results of this evidence.
Say, if a woman claims rape but four witnesses are not available, there is no prosecution. However, if the testing of the accused man's biological material shows the presence of his DNA at the crime scene (even if four witnesses are not available), based on forensic science, this should suffice to secure a conviction. The CII though seems unwilling to consider DNA evidence as the decider here.
Apparently, they would rather wait for the woman to complete pregnancy, deliver and then do a paternity test. Doesn't make sense to me, does it to you?
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May 30, 2013 02:42pm
Humans are called 'Ashraf-ul-Maklooqaat' meaning 'there's a grey matter up there, USE IT!' Use it not for negativity, but for positive impact on mankind. When people insulted the Holy Prophet or Islam, he didn't order their heads off... he prayed that they become believers and he moved on to preach others! Patience, in the time of Adversity.... this is one (Very important) line in the Quran that these Islamic scholars conveniently forget and NEVER preach to others! Why? I loved the 'Islamiaat' 'Deeniaat' books that were taught to me in my childhood days. That taught me everything that a Muslim needs to know to be a good human AND a good ambassador of Islam. People converted to Islam in large numbers the Prophets (PBUH) time because he proved himself to be a model human. 'Haqooq-ul-Ibaad' (another important word deliberately ignored these days) are as important as 'Haqooq Allah'
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May 30, 2013 02:46pm
These tunnel vision mullahs are so intelligent that they thing it is ok, standing by a road side performing whatni with a stone is very logic but DNA testing sucks. These ex justice I don
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May 30, 2013 02:55pm
What do these four 'pious muslims' do while the rape is happening?
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May 30, 2013 02:57pm
You forget only mullahs get elected in Pakistan. Dont you know one has to be 'pious muslim and ameen' (whatever that means) to contest elections?
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May 30, 2013 02:58pm
Is the printing of DNA strand Islamic?
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May 30, 2013 03:43pm
What are you on even a drop of saliva can nail a rapist in a DNA test. i do not know where you come from where it takes a man to tell some mad Qazi that a rape took place and he saw it,if so i would ask the question why these 4 men did not help the person being raped.ask yourself that question?
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May 30, 2013 03:50pm
All over the world DNA is prime proof in a rape case when a man says he has never seen the accuser or ever come across her she says he raped her even na drop of saliva as DNA will nail him. so how can that not be proof.
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May 30, 2013 03:50pm
well said.
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May 30, 2013 04:33pm
Where in the Quran does it say that there should be a clergy who should "advise" the people's representatives? I thought one of the unique things about Islam was that unlike, say Catholicism, there is supposed to be a direct dialogue between the believer and her God, and the believer isn't supposed to rely on the clergy to initiate that dialogue or to interpret the words of God. So, IMO, these mullahs are frauds.
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May 30, 2013 04:39pm
Our religion teaches us to learn. That is the first word in Quran. Not stop learning because of the religion. These guardians of religion has done so much damage to the name of Islam and Pakistan, we are better off without them. Let us not become a laughing stock of the world.
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May 30, 2013 05:03pm
Seems everything that is good for humanity is against Islam.
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May 30, 2013 05:05pm
A truly excellent post.
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May 30, 2013 05:17pm
I suggest that CII explain their decision in full on the use of DNA as supportive evidence and other issues on their own website so that people can easily understand the exact background of their decision. The coverage by dawn here is not only confusing but contributing to raise a lots of questions on the decision of CII. I am sure that people having detailed knowledge of justice system and ullema together have examined all aspects in this case before giving their deliberation.
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May 30, 2013 05:23pm
Can somebody please explain to me why is human cloning illegal?
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May 30, 2013 05:24pm
Can somebody also explain to me how is human cloning against islam?
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May 30, 2013 05:33pm
May be its time to resolve the issue and contribute in a more constructive manner rather than being harsh on religious leaders who are taught and prepared in the fashion as they are in their judgement about any issue, be it moon sighting or denying on DNA sampling as an evidence on rape. May God help these leaders who in the name of religion are tirelessly trying to propagate and mitigate Islamic teachings as if they were founders of this religion or its teachings.
These leaders were given the chance in MMA and instead they pulled out their negative side to sabotage the entire society and whereas our religion Islam is most easiest and simply to comply with. But these sharia council and these GUYS persist and insist on for carrying out practices which are designed to meet their wishful thinking. Islam is based on purity, logic and the consequential results thereupon arising out of certain act (s) and so on. But whenever these leaders get a chance they always stir a new controversy showing us again and again that these leaders are nowhere and their thoughts.
Until now these moulvies / moulana sahibs could not even fix uniform time for Azaans in respective areas and neither they will be able to declare eid on the same day in our country. Rather they are busy in meaningless quest for translations of certain words, time to ponder and rectify them and us as well who let these people lead us.
Ailly
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May 30, 2013 06:14pm
A true example of yellow journalism and biased and ignorant sheeps to follow that. Another incomplete news presented with out enough background information to promote specific agenda.
It is allowed as evidence but under circumstance.
Dawn should have done responsible reporting and provided complete facts.
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May 30, 2013 06:15pm
Funny on how people jump on words on a news clip without knowing full details. DNA in rape can't be used as primary evidence because it can't differentiate between force and willingness. It just proves that contact happened. So of course there is a need for further evidence to first prove the claim of rape.
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May 30, 2013 06:19pm
If one really needs a testimony for that, wouldnt the witness stop the crime from happening in the very first place? Which person will have the audacity to witness a rape, and then come forward as a witness later???
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May 30, 2013 06:20pm
And the 4 men have to be impeccable reputation. So you would need for someone to rape before an audience of pious men. How realistic is that?
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May 30, 2013 06:26pm
Human cloning is not against Islam. There is a fatwa from Ulema in USA. Human cloning takes many shapes, this mullah probably thinks that they are trying to grow a human being. Human cloning includes growing of organs to replace damaged ones.
Dr Siddiqui of Islamic Society of North America said in one of his sermons that any soul that Allah wants to be born will be born and we cannot prevent it. Everything happens by Allah's will. The body is just encasement, its the soul that is sent by Allah which counts.
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May 30, 2013 06:29pm
What if the victim is dead and there are no other witnesses? What if he/she committed suicide from the shame?
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May 30, 2013 06:47pm
Islam made a lot of progress when we understood the Quran .Iqra the first word .Shame on these Mullahs.
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May 30, 2013 07:22pm
We can ask Ulamas or Muftees if we have any question that the translation of Quran won't tell us but when it comes to DNA, let us not ask them. Ask the best people in this field.
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May 30, 2013 07:29pm
It is apparent that your knowledge of Islam is as good as your "forensic" science knowledge.
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May 30, 2013 09:09pm
if that is what is required then that is what is required
there is no other way
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May 30, 2013 09:33pm
Not so..!
There is NO such law. She made an absurd statement. You have also used or fallen for her Straw Man Logic Fallacy or gambit. Otherwise cite a reference to authenticate your contention.
What the Noble Qur'an categorically states is that if someone makes an ALLEGATION of a women being GUILTY of sexual immorality then THAT PERSON must bring 4 male witnesses otherwise the punishment will be put on the accuser for spoiling her name and reputation.
Prove me wrong with a citation from the Noble Qur'an. Not from some 'he said/she said' nonsense Islamophobic website. Shariah Law is very strict against anyone making false frivolous allegations and accusations, specially ON women. And the false accuser is punished as if he did the crime.
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May 30, 2013 09:43pm
Obviously you are way smarter, more mature, professionally accomplished, and educated than I can ever be. But this is NOT about me...have you not noticed?
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May 30, 2013 09:43pm
Our biggest guilt is that we recognize these people as Ulemas. They can't even decide whether moon sighting actually is correct or not whereas people from elsewhere have stepped on the moon itself!!!
About time we retire these retrograde mullahs and judges to oblivion. CII is a waste of Pakistan's time, money and resources.
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May 30, 2013 10:15pm
Who is he?
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May 31, 2013 01:17am
Why do you want to consult ulemas and so called muftis??? Have not God Almighty given you commonsense of what is right and what is wrong in specific situation?? Do you want to be BLIND all your life?? Does not Quran Sharif talks about changing of time? Read it yourself, do not depend on ignorant people or else you will turn ignorant too! Politics has always been DIRTY, its a power struggle with all these people. They think God is watching everyone except THEM!!!
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May 31, 2013 01:45am
Unfortunate. These are so called 'ulema'.
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May 31, 2013 01:47am
Remember Pope John Paul pardoned Galileo only in 1992 for saying the earth revolves around the sun, Unlike our Mullahs, the Pope in 1616 did not just give an opinion, he had Galileo imprisoned for the rest of his life, according to less charitable accounts, Galileo was burned alive.
In pardoning Galileo, Pope John Paul only said that Galileo's theory was correct, he did not acknowledge that the Catholic church had no business executing a man regardless of whether the earth revolves around the sun or the sun revolves around the earth.
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May 31, 2013 01:48am
Pope John Paul gave a fatwa saying human cloning is immoral, look it up on the net.
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May 31, 2013 01:50am
That to me, my friend, is an open licence to commit rape, as there will never be 4 pious men available to give evidence that they witnessed the actual penetration as a thread goes through the eye of a needle. So the victim can never really prove it, can she ?
Isn't it sad that the burden is again on the victim rather than the perpetrator ? In other words, the victim is being raped twice, once physically and then psychologically.
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May 31, 2013 02:17am
IF you are so in support of that CII good for you. But you should know that rape is always forced. Is always despicable. Willingly done is NOT rape, weather we condone it or not.
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May 31, 2013 02:33am
What is the brilliant beyond brilliant reason this council thinks something as accurate and helpful as DNA sampling is against Islam? As far as I can tell Islam holds forth truth above all
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May 31, 2013 02:35am
Under what circumstances DNA match is allowed Mr. Asim? Can you be specific please?
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May 31, 2013 02:39am
The problem is that you are only allowed to "learn our religion" as it has been interpreted by a certain individual or individuals. There is no room for actual learning, it is all rot knowledge with no room for really engaging with the knowledge." Accept it as I am telling you"-is this really called learning? I don't think so.
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May 31, 2013 02:50am
Beautiful. Please enlightened us a bit further. In your esteemed opinion, how can a raped woman prove that it was a rape not an act of mutual consensus according to the huddod law? What is an acceptable primary evidence? Isn't it producing four adult, pious Muslim men who saw the act through their naked eye? Now, please tell me how is it ever possible? And in cases such as Mukhtaran Mai, when there were eye witnesses, what happened to them do you remember? Once there is a problem in the society, it will hit everyone at some point. So just wait until it hits home and then ponder on "difference between force and willingness".
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May 31, 2013 02:56am
We are followers of a prophet who was regularly questioned by people around him and he never discouraged anyone. Our early history is full of example of lay people challenging rulers and scholars. remember the story of the woman who challenged Hazrat Umar when he wanted a ban on women coming to the masajids? She said "how can you deny that when Mohamed allowed it" and his response was "the woman is right, Omar was wrong". So our scholars today have reached to new heights of divinity? they have become infallible? really-is that what our religion teaches? A human being is so perfect that he/she cannot be challenged or questioned?
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May 31, 2013 02:57am
while you are on it, please suggest some ways that a raped woman can get justice under the Pakistani brand of Islamic law.
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May 31, 2013 03:10am
lol saracsm
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May 31, 2013 03:37am
which verses of the Qur'an refer to DNA
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May 31, 2013 03:44am
yes, DNA cannot differentiate between willingness and force - other evidence is required for that
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May 31, 2013 03:46am
actually this ruling was made to protect the reputation of Ayesha, after she was accidentally left behind in the desert, and spent a night with the man who rescued her
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May 31, 2013 03:47am
Yes, it is our duty to read and understand Quran, Please refer to Surah Al' Anam, when ALLAH commands believers (muslims), "Do not insult what other people worship. And insult not whom they worship besides ALLAH, lest they without knowledge wrongfully (out of spite) insult ALLAH".. Thus, muslims are not allowed to commit blasphemy against other faiths. The Blasphemy Law whether in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia is applied in the reverse direction, and should be removed. It is used for victimizing and committing injustice against people of other faiths.
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May 31, 2013 03:49am
they are talking about rape not adultery!
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May 31, 2013 03:54am
and authentic books and GOD fearing teachers
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May 31, 2013 04:03am
yet there is no verse in the quran on cloning but the quran does mention that human being is made from a clot of blood. Pretty sure the ulema did not have organs on mind but the reproduction topic!stop blaming everything on the mullahs or ulema
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May 31, 2013 04:12am
as long as it dies not break the rules of ALLAH as stipulated in the quran.Remember ALLAH swt says in the quran,that the quran is written in a language so easy for everyone to understand.Whether understood literally or in the light of hadith.
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May 31, 2013 06:40am
Whats the definition of rape as per CII. What are the Primary and which are the secondary evidence? Presence of DNA may not differentiate between consensual sex, adultery and rape, but why would any one cry wolf in first two case?
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May 31, 2013 08:32am
Is there any mention of DNA in Quran ? Or are these Mullahs...interpreting Quran the "mullah way" as they are stuck in time.
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May 31, 2013 08:34am
@Amir....ROFL ...that was a good one!!
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May 31, 2013 08:35am
And a revision in syallbus !!
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May 31, 2013 08:40am
You a scientist of .....???
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May 31, 2013 09:47am
You are doing blasphemy by asking such question. ;)
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May 31, 2013 10:00am
Can you please, complete the news?
BBC reports about a case where identified rapers were released due to this. http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/2013/05/130530_shariah_and_dna_zz.shtml
If we could open our eyes!
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May 31, 2013 10:01am
mullah Unacceptable in Islaam.
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May 31, 2013 10:03am
Quran is made easy for every human being, no need of any jaahil mullah.
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May 31, 2013 11:02am
If four men witness crime and did not stop the crime, they should be prosecuted too. Does Islam has any provision to stop this crime and protect the victim?
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May 31, 2013 11:06am
why not. these ulema have done research and declared it illegal. they are ulema, dear. please learn to get guidance from ULEMA.
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May 31, 2013 11:07am
why not. these ulema have done research and declared it illegal. they are ulema, dear. please learn to get guidance from ULEMA.
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May 31, 2013 11:09am
dear your question is illogical. i think that it is a system to prevent rape.may be i am not able to understand you/
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May 31, 2013 11:09am
........bcuz its beyon their comprehension and mental capacity !!!
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May 31, 2013 11:09am
you are illogical. ULEMA ARE OUR GUIDES.
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May 31, 2013 11:14am
YOU SHOULD CHOOSE YOUR WORDS PROPERLY. THESE RESPECTABLE AALIMS ARE OUR GUIDANCE. IQRATAUGHT US TO DEVELOP SCIENCE BUT WE CAN USE SCIENCE AGAINST HUMANITY OR MORALITY.
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May 31, 2013 11:15am
these ulema OR retired judges must have done research and declared it illegal. they are ulema, dear. please learn to get guidance from ULEMA.
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May 31, 2013 11:34am
Sir "Conjecture" is advised to be avoided more than once in Quran.
Do you agree?
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May 31, 2013 11:35am
I don't understand on what bases they have declared it secondary evidence, why they do not understood the fact that we are living in a modern world, and the most disappointing thing for me is retired judges are member of this council..
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May 31, 2013 11:49am
Right, rape is not committed in front of audience. How can you have witness of rape????????? Why not DNA can be the proof of rape when you can prove that so and so child is so and so father???????????
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May 31, 2013 11:51am
Do not expect justice from judges
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May 31, 2013 11:51am
The reporting from another source may help. It basically underlines the fact that Mullas are becoming more and more irrelevant and with their medieval interpretation, they are making Islam irrelevant as well for the 21st century
http://tribune.com.pk/story/556392/rape-cases-dna-tests-not-admissible-as-main-evidence-cii-front-page/
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May 31, 2013 11:57am
a female DNA donor would be the clone's genetic twin, rather than mother, complicating the genetic and social relationships between mother and child as well as the relationships between other family members and the clone
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May 31, 2013 12:06pm
They make sure it is a rape and witness everything so they can give a good account of what has happened. As they are brave men of God, they go the court next day after exchanging notes on what had happened. What a perfect picture of Muslim men.....
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May 31, 2013 01:03pm
I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but even here the Mullah gets his way.
Iqra means 'to read', and not necessarily to understand.
So we read the Holy Quran, but never try to understand it.
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May 31, 2013 01:08pm
Bull's eye!
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May 31, 2013 01:11pm
Religions are meant to serve the powerful.
They always favor the rich versus the poor, and men versus the women.
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May 31, 2013 01:14pm
Excellent post.
Unfortunately, we are already the laughing stock of the world. It is a painful reality.
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May 31, 2013 01:21pm
Hi,
It will be interesting to know what are deemed as primary evidence? While DNA test can confirm that sexual intercourse has taken place, it does not, on its on, prove that this was a consensual or a forced act. Going by that logic, DNA can not be the primery evidence for rape convictions. There needs to be other forensic evidence to support this like signs of struggle, weapons used etc to complete the evidence.
I am not sure why DAWN has not mentioned CII's proposed primary evidence. It may well be the traditional testimony of 4 pious men but it should be stated in the report as this is a sensitive matter.
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May 31, 2013 01:32pm
Your opinion only shows your ignorance about the whole issue.
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May 31, 2013 01:37pm
Why dont you go to Mullah and ask him why it is against Islam. I would recommend Dar-ul Uloom for this purpose
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May 31, 2013 01:47pm
I do not understand how DNA test makes a primary evidence for an alleged rape and not of adultery: how can you differentiate? Only by having witnesses, and remember that if there are no four witness, neither adultery nor rape is proved, Secondary evidence of DNA coupled with circumstances can prove something in favor of a woman, but it is not sufficient for giving capital or 100 lashes punishment to a rapist. That is what Islamic position is mostly in the view of Fiqh Malkia and Hanfia.
Moreover, people who do not practice Islam need not comment on Islamic issues. And those who want to practice should decide before speaking if they want to follow Islam or Islam to follow them. These commentators mostly appear nothing but the ignorant.
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May 31, 2013 02:40pm
Please seek/request comments of a Mufti.It is not an easy subject for general people to explain to you.
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May 31, 2013 02:40pm
DNA test is used to identify the criminal, not to prove whether forced or wilingness. Use your brain
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May 31, 2013 02:54pm
Wow... so you approve of the fact that if someone in your family was raped, and since there were no 4 witnesses except for the DNA sample. That person should be forgiven??? May Allah have mercy on us.
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May 31, 2013 02:57pm
It is against humanity because creating another human being with emotions & feelings is just wrong. How would you feel if you were a clone but because the science was not perfect, your life expectancy will be 15 years. Islam is about humanity first.
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May 31, 2013 03:07pm
Cloning should not be done, not from religious perspective but as a humans, we should keep it natural.
And as for DNA, don't ask Mullahs.
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May 31, 2013 03:08pm
When it is rape, the man is stoned. When it is not rape, both can be stoned due to mutual consent.
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May 31, 2013 03:10pm
She was talking about you
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May 31, 2013 03:16pm
I think you are not able to understand a lot of things. It's actually a system to prevent prosecution of rape. Bet you didnt get that either.
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May 31, 2013 03:17pm
All Pakistani women should have four very pious men on speed dial.
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May 31, 2013 03:31pm
This unfortunate country has been hostage to the Mullahs and Media.
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May 31, 2013 03:36pm
You are most welcome to give them offense. They need it.
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May 31, 2013 03:54pm
Is driving a car or travelling on aeroplane Islamic?
Are wrist watch, television, cell phone, digital camera, electric fan or electricity itself Islamic?
Are charging a cell phone wirelessly, Wi-Fi router and internet Islamic?
Which of the http, https, ftp, ssh protocols is Islamic?
Are Java and C# Islamic? Or only Fortran, BASIC or Ada are Islamic?
Are Newton
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May 31, 2013 04:24pm
For a science-illiterate technology-ignorant MIND -- everything that is incomprehensible is anti - Islam.
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May 31, 2013 04:37pm
What we need to understand is that we should stop taking Mullahs seriously.
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May 31, 2013 04:44pm
having the time of their llife
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May 31, 2013 04:45pm
having a time of their life
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May 31, 2013 04:48pm
..... and fewer Madarsas ..... and fewer Madarsas..... and fewer Madarsas..... and fewer Madarsas
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May 31, 2013 04:53pm
A minimal IQ level would also be welcome ......
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May 31, 2013 06:08pm
Take their turns ofcourse and then deny that it all happened!
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May 31, 2013 07:36pm
@Allaisa: They are Fabricating Straw Men and Building Glass Houses on Foundations of Sand. Your question in based on untruth and propaganda memes being propagated on the web. It has NO foundation in fact.
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May 31, 2013 07:43pm
Since you are a lot smarter than I can ever be...why don't you please demonstrate your "Knowledge of Islam" and minimum functional IQ by citing a primary reference.
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May 31, 2013 07:54pm
Until masses are educated and influence of Mullahs contained the future of this country looks bleak.
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May 31, 2013 09:31pm
Maybe DNA is mentioned in the Quran. Why else would they say no to it?
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